Why your Epicurean approach will never make you truly happy | Arthur Brooks

[@realchoodle]

Epicureanism isn’t just “suffering bad;” all hellenistic schools agreed with that. The idea was to overcome anxiety and unnecessary worry through communal support and education. Once you learned enough, they thought you would realize you have nothing to fear. It was about being rational and educated to avoid the baseless fears that so many of us fall into.

[@gillypiexo]

I totally agree. I learned about this similar key teaching in Buddhism. No doubt saved my life over & over. Overcoming suffering in a way.

[@oceantransistor]

I would buy your book before Brooks. He was conflating issues.

[@FernandoThegreat]

Did he actually read any Epicurus? Katastematic vs kinetic pleasure is hedonist philosophy 101

[@aaxa101]

@@FernandoThegreat Straight to the point

[@lupin7559]

He’s mischaracterizing Epicureanism here. Not great. One of Epicureas’s ideas, as far as I know, is that excessively pursuing too much pleasure, like food, sex or status will eventually make you unhappy so there must be a balance. The ancient Greeks had other words for happiness and commonly used the word ‘Eudaemonia’ to mean ‘happiness as a byproduct of good living.’

[@koderoclin4140]

The goal should not be to have a life of comfort but a person of character so strong that you can experience discomfort and not be broken.

[@SatanicBoomBoomHead]

This guy is completely mischaracterizing Epicurus and his philosophy. Some excerpts from Epicurus writtings “You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships everyday. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity.” "The pleasant life is produced not by a string of drinking bouts and revelries, nor by the enjoyment of boys and women, nor by fish and the other items on an expensive menu, but by sober reasoning." "It is not possible to live pleasurably without living sensibly and nobly and justly" Epicurus philosophy is not about removing suffering but using reason to quell fears, remove impediments and enjoy life to fullest. Suffering is a given in life but through the careful understanding of one fears, pleasures and desires one can attain tranquility and true fulfillment and that’s Epicurean philosophy.

[@joshuakzy7472]

Good job

[@sophiaisabelle01]

It is often said, for without suffering, we cannot truly know the meaning of life. To endure pain and hatred during hard times. To resolve guilt and anger with inner peace and harmony. It is a balance of will and nature that gets replenished with new meanings and virtues that go full circle.

[@ritastafford8904]

Yes. To resolve guilt and anger with inner peace and harmony, to endure pain and hatred with unconditional love and understanding, this is how we alleviate or circumvent suffering. Stuff happens, suffering is a choice, a learned response that we can learn - with Practice! - to let go of.

[@ritastafford8904]

Though, imo, the concept of "without suffering we cannot know the meaning of life" is, at the very least, misunderstood, perhaps trite - a way to justify suffering without fully understanding the process.

[@kushalramakanth7922]

Yup, pain and pleasure are not exactly opposites! Look at games, the games that are tough to win are the most enjoyable when you do! When you win easily, it tends to become boring and less fun/pleasurable! This holds true for most things!

[@MangoMonster34]

I think that no matter how much bad you have, it does not always make the “bliss” feel good. I’m on the side of it where I will ruin good things because it’s less scary than to expect a good thing will work out. I grew up with a super shitty childhood and everything was a reality slap before I hit puberty. It doesn’t make my life feel more blissful now. More bad does not equal stronger good. You have to have a better perspective for that. Thats what people are missing.

[@NoirL.A.]

i personally find one of the best ways to avoid suffering (which i know is not always possible) is to be absolutely baked in gratitude. i have anxiety (which i understand is becoming a world wide phenomenon) but if even the tiniest most "unimportant" thing goes right i'm extremely grateful. especially in modern capitalist societies we are not taught gratitude we are taught to only feel grateful if we drive the right car, have enough money, etc. so it mite not come naturally to many of us. on top of that gratitude has to be one of the best emotions we can feel so nurture it and promote within oneself as best as possible.

[@petermuller6359]

That is the comment I was just about to write myself. Gratitude is underappreciated. Gratitude is key.

[@The-Well]

Beautiful insight. Thanks for the reminder to find something to be grateful for today ❤

[@DiamondGirl333]

I raised my son in the "never say no" era. I provided him with anything and everything I could think of to make his life fun and exciting and shield him from negativity. He's a 40-year-old child who looks to me for his survival. My bad!

[@sunstarpunk]

Well,does not go like that,in my case,never heard Yes,as kid ,and still barely making it,in this day economy,the honest,hard working,fair,work way. 😅

[@oreel-g4v]

I'm your son, and rn I'm in my mid 20s trying to learn from scratch all the survival skills I didn't get from my parents.

[@marsdriver2501]

@@sunstarpunk absolutes are never a good approach to do things

[@black-popfilms9355]

😂😂😂

[@DiamondGirl333]

@@oreel-g4v Wishing you all the best.

[@ricdotdev]

Allowing temporary suffering is also an epicurean approach, if it means preventing a greater suffering in the future. Example of this is physical exercise; it's better to suffer a bit now through exercise, if it means being healthier (i.e., not being sick).

[@ryan.harvill]

I love it when Stanley Tucci talks philosophy

[@johnypixels]

He sucks ..working for captalists to make people unheappy all the time to keepvbuying mcdonalds

[@unrealnews]

It isn't suffering that causes us to have bad lives, it's our approach. In all things, when various pains are brought to bear upon the individual, the individual suffers so long as they respond with "I do not want this. Make it stop immediately." While this response may be unconscious and unavoidable, the pains may become instructive and lead to a better life so long as one is able to transmute their childlike response to one of "I am experiencing pain in this moment. What is the universe trying to teach me?" This approach, coupled with increased sensitivity to ones own suffering, the suffering of others, and a willingness to "look" directly at suffering's source is probably the greatest gift you can give yourself or any other. (Please put down your pen if you intentionally misinterpret what I'm saying into the speech of a super-villian.)

[@hoykoya3382]

When you are suffering, do not turn to distractions. Because that will only turn you away from seeing what's truly happening within you. As Alan Watts advised.

[@curtisrobinson7962]

You've got to feel it to heal it?

[@hilarystewart366]

“Those desiring to escape suffering hasten right toward it. With the very desire for happiness, out of delusion they destroy their own happiness as if it were an enemy.” - Shantideva

[@The-Well]

Such a perfect addition to this video. Thank you ❤

[@aaxa101]

Epicur makes a differnce between kinetic an katastematic pleasures. The good ones are the second ones (I dont wanna bore you with the details) but finally what was a pleasure for Epicur was a glass of water after a long day of working in the fields. So basically all you think you know about the hedonists is wrong.

[@Dr.Dreamer057]

Good or bad. One should always remember that it'll pass. So be grateful in good times and patient in bad :)

[@ittaiklein8541]

@Dr.Derma - Dr.Derma - yours is a very popular but naïve outlook. Even though it's celebrated in "Blues" and elsewhere, some things do Not pass. I am sure that you can quickly think of a few.

[@bertkreft9689]

​@@ittaiklein8541 Everything must change Nothing stays the same Everyone will change No one stays the same The young become the old And mysteries do unfold 'Cause that's the way of time Nothing and no one goes unchanged There are not many things in live You can be sure of, except Rain comes from the clouds Sun lights up the sky And hummingbirds do fly Winter turns to spring A wounded heart will heal But never much too soon Yes everything must change The young become the old And mysteries do unfold 'Cause that's the way of time Nothing and no one goes unchanged There are not many things in life You can be sure of, except Except, (rain comes from the clouds) (Sun lights up the sky) (And hummingbirds to fly) (Rain comes from the clouds) (Sun lights up the sky) Ooh (And hummingbirds to fly) Hummingbirds do fly Um rain comes from the clouds (Rain comes from the clouds) And sun lights up the sky (Sun lights up the sky) And hummingbirds do fly (And Hummingbirds do fly) I know rain (Rain comes from the clouds) I know sun (Sun lights up the sky) And music makes me cry Quincy jones

[@divinejacobmathew1503]

You missed Epicurus emphasising of avoiding excess pleasure as well. This is as important if not more than simply “avoiding suffering” to the epicurean philosophy.

[@macyrosetta]

This reminds me of the philosophy of Nietzsche on what is necessary for the "Good Life", it is very interesting that as a soceity we are leaning towards that more hedonistic way of life (ie. the dopmine hits, lack of stability in attention, and easing our workloads or simple tasks with the revolution of AI) pushing aside the arduous necessities for fulfilment or meaningfulness in life in the long-term, for the short-term happiness or pleasure we gain with these distractions. Very interesting perspective!

[@winstonoboogie2424]

If I had not known the depths of sorrow, I would not appreciate the heights of joy.

[@petermuller6359]

This is not just a misrepresentation of Epiccureanism, it's a lousy one.

[@orfeas8]

Some people may can give a meaning to ''Suffer less'' like avoiding tough things. I don't think Epicurus supported living a passive lifestyle where you don't grow. Unnecessary suffering is a complete waste of time and energy.

[@DonGivani]

True !!! This can foster a lack of ambition

[@MrApw2011]

While I get Arthur's point, I don't think he made it very well. Avoiding suffering does't mean not going to the gym and putting in effort or learning the truth about history. It means things like not making the world unnecessarily unfair, educating against racism, abuse, violence, those sorts of things. I think all of us can see that modern medicine, air conditioning, and beds that don't have bed bugs in them made of straw are the sorts of things that eliminate suffering and we all like. Becoming lazy and unwilling to challenge our minds and bodies doesn't eliminate but rather invites suffering.

[@bertkreft9689]

there are many things in life we don't like - they are bad in our experience - that's enough to grow and evolve - a certain amount of fear an anxiety is nice

[@RyanPatrick-ib2uv]

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[@RyanPatrick-ib2uv]

The first step to successful investment is figuring your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but it's very advisable you make use of professional.

[@LouisSmith-wt9vh]

I know Laura, she has really set the standard for others to follow, we love her here in the UK as she has been really helpful and changed lots of lives.

[@LouisSmith-wt9vh]

You're right! The very first time I tried, I invested $2000 and after a week, I received $8,400. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.

[@AndreasPoland-rm4zv]

Interesting! But I'm new here. How can I get to this person's guidelines??

[@RyanPatrick-ib2uv]

SHE IS ON TELEGRAMs

[@Murasak3y]

People have confused lessening suffering with avoiding hardship and they are not the same thing.

[@ubermenschchan7671]

suffering, to some extent, is not worth the bliss. the bliss, however, can never exceed the suffering (?)

[@friedsoybean]

As there is no cure-all medicine, I think there's also no "cure-all" philosophy that could explain everything in life. While excessive avoidance of suffering could lead to entitlement (because people are so used to be shielded from hardship/suffering), from what I understood Epicurean tends to pursue living in moderation (pleasure yes, but moderately).

[@WackyConundrum]

Yes, suffering is a part of life. That's why the only way not to make someone suffer is to not bring them into the world in the first place.

[@Beowulf245]

Epicurean or whatever, I just feel like the life that I'm living right now belongs to someone else. I would want to be an entirely different person with different traits of character, source of income, hobbies, goals, people around me and the world around me. I feel like I'm trapped in some cell, serving a penalty in prison. That's what makes me deeply, truly unhappy. I do not suffer, I do not lack anything, I feel comfortable enough and protected enough. It's just I don't enjoy living.

[@imanolsenderos9427]

Then you probably lack self awareness or self knowledge. It would help you read philosophy, reflecting or going to therapy. It’s a lot of work but it worth it.

[@marsdriver2501]

​@@imanolsenderos9427 I feel like emotional work needs to be emphasized too here, a knowledge of a cell is only good if you capable to escape it

[@petermuller6359]

@@imanolsenderos9427 I see this entirely different. I think @beowulf245 is unusually aware how himself. He describes very well what today many, maybe most people, only feel - or suppress. I hope he stays clear of therapy - and has a second look at Epicur. I personally make good experience with carrying a tiny folding chair, good music and earphones into nature. (Depending on place and season, mosquito repellent or a jacket may enhance the experience.) Finding the right spot at the right time with the right amenities is an art worth purusuing

[@JROC2112]

Was talking about this only this morning. Suffering and pain is necessary to develop, grow and keep yourself safe. Thanks for such a great presentation.

[@blackoi]

Rather than addressing Epicurean (the title of the video), I think Arthur is answering the question, "Should we try to eliminate suffering?" This is a question that I also find difficult to answer. Arthur addressed one side of it, but there are also other sides... one of them being the reason why we have age limits to various things. Suffering is not a generic experience or equal to individuals due to how we experience life, genetic differences, culture differences, environment, self-efficacy, etc. Someone suffering hunger in a family that's well-fed is vastly different to someone suffering hunger in a village suffering famine. While surviving suffering may improve our mental mettle, it could also increase our trauma. Results in health research suggests that trauma is a contributing factor in life expectancy. It's not something you can apply a blanket statement to and a 3-minutes video won't be able to answer it fully. Appropriate for the 'Devil's Advocate' title.

[@petermuller6359]

Ok, I get it. Epicureanism is not your thing. But you got some cool socks there. And I like the lamp. (Got an Amazon link?)

[@thelammas8283]

The biggest dilemma in life. Just being aware of your need to be happy seems to preclude any possibility of attaining it.

[@eyespy3001]

This is a very, very interesting topic. I think 80% of this is “true” (as far as you can quantify what happiness is, which is totally subjective). To say that happy was is the absence of suffering is so black and white. Happiness is so much more than just _not_ suffering. However, to be in a state of non-suffering does allow room for happiness (unless you’re a sadist/masochist) In the end, though, happiness is a human construct, and it’s something totally unrelated to anything in nature, which is a cruel fact.

[@siyabongatebele]

I have consistently found that pursuing happiness only breeds more misery and suffering. It has this disappointing and frustratingly elusive nature about it. If you reflect upon your life, you'll see how most of the bitter sorrows you've pierced yourself with have come from a pursuit of some pleasure and happiness in something or someone. Happiness is not something found by strictly and solely pursuing it. It is always a byproduct of a greater, more meaningful, and worthy pursuit.

[@frattman]

I went to a therapist recently who, 20 minutes into our first session, said (and I'm paraphrasing) "You know, psychotherapy is such a racket - people think they're going to get better if they just sit and talk and then sit and talk some more, but real growth comes from pain. If you're not willing to sit with your pain you're not going to grow."

[@jithenin]

Thank you BT for this Upload 👍👌❤️

[@The-Well]

Thank you for being here! ❤

[@rosariancherry]

Am I the only person who thinks the narrator looks insanely like Jake Gyllenhaal in 20 years???

[@maynardwayward12]

I don't know about this common idea that you need the bad in order to appreciate the good. The video ends like we should just take this for granted. But you can also learn from other people's mistakes. And a lot of the really bad stuff that happens to people just amounts to trauma that will, to some extent, keep them stuck and unable to grow as people.

[@coachhbosoccer]

Happiness is a place you can visit but can't stay.

[@ActituddeGratitud]

We need both ying and yang to be whole💞

[@oneoneoneowe]

I was gonna say poor Epicurus still being defamed but lucky for him he's dead so this is nothing to him. "Death is nothing to us for while we live, death is not and when death is, we are not." - Epicurus I was not. I was. I am not. I care not. - Epicurean epitaph

[@petermuller6359]

👍🏻

[@SeventhSaucer]

I agree that people, especially children, should experience disappointments and setbacks so they learn and grow. But is getting a bad grade on a school assignment truly "suffering?" Is doing poorly the first time you try a new sport truly "suffering?" Is hard work that benefits you in the long run "suffering?" No. The fact is, there is an enormous amount of suffering in the world that benefits no one. "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" is a useful lie that you tell yourself when times are tough, but if times are good, you shouldn't steer toward suffering for its own sake.

[@sk8freak176]

This is the most based thing to come out of BT

[@salek_overthinku]

Love this idea. But what are the alternatives?

[@DeePeeZee]

I'm wondering the same thing 🤔

[@OmarAyusoVA]

This isn't an Epicurean idea this is caller hedonism

[@zlam9872]

There is no light without dark,that's the balance of the world

[@alexalke1417]

Most people calling themselves epicurean are only hedonists and don't know shit about Epicure.

[@tiamatandall]

My first pen casa ever?!? Yes, please!

[@honkeytonke1587]

Why are those words "Devil's Advocate" in the introduction. Made me think deep if I'm in the right chanel for such.

[@soonny002]

Like everything in life, striking a balance is essential here. Letting your children suffer needlessly is just as, if not more, traumatizing for them. You want to expose your children to the miseries of life, not the misery of living with you.

[@DY2784]

Love those socks!!!👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@peterjeffery8495]

I am excited to tune into your follow up treatises on Th Joy of Trauma and the Many Blessings of Betrayal and Abuse. Please no BIG THINK. This belongs on the cutting room floor. Libertarian Psychotherapy? Jesus!!!

[@FilipeBrasAlmeida]

This line of thought suffers from a salient lack of imagination on the wide-ranging scope of possible sources of pleasure/happiness vs pain/suffering. There is unquestionably immense happiness to be obtained from long-term efforts, or an immediate heavy sacrifice exchanged for a prolonged and slightly higher floor of happiness. The thrill of participating in competition, risk-seeking, adrenaline, etc. The subjective nature of what brings us happiness and delivers us from unhappiness, is built in to Epicureanism. So no, avoiding pain and seeking pleasure isn't necessarily all about eating ice-cream all day and avoiding uncomfortable debates.

[@watcherofvideoswasteroftim5788]

I think it is a mistake equating the presence of 'negative' emotions to unhappiness. First of all It's casting a wide enough net around the definition to lose its usefulness in describing what happiness is or is not. If you consider pain a negative emotion you'd also by that definition have to say that someone giving birth or stepping into an ice bath is unhappy. Secondly, equating suffering less with avoiding the things that make you suffer is also flawed and a somewhat naive interpretation/assumption. Avoidance often lead to more suffering, for example, avoiding a difficult conversation with a friend can lead to misunderstandings, growing resentment, and eventual loss of the friendship - causing more suffering than if the issue had been addressed directly. The guy makes valid points on the foundation of misinterpretations and assumptions. In school you get 0 points for correct answer but incorrect reasoning, even though it might cause suffering. Also, people don't seem to be suffering less today, quite the opposite considering depression and anxiety etc. If it were the case that suffering led to happiness then why aren't people ecstatic right now?

[@Celeste-in-Oz]

I’m no Buddhist but isn’t that exactly what he said over a thousand years ago?

[@Headtube]

Oh good golly gosh, let's not even bother with a discussion of constructive suffering versus destructive suffering. Then you couldn't fit your incomplete analysis into a 3 minute blurb.

[@jeremymacdonald5584]

We have the power to turn almost all suffering we survive into something constructive

[@Headtube]

@@jeremymacdonald5584 Tell it to all those suffering from the many forms of PTSD. Better yet, avoid sweeping statements about very complex issues.

[@ineoeon8925]

A Nice talk wearing nice socks.

[@NEUETERN]

👌👌👌

[@Bodyknowledge77]

If you're living in the game you're gonna feel the pain..

[@varunmeena4739]

Last time people took your video in a negative way but this time you explained very well about how suffering helps in growth.

[@oematthews7353]

is it just me or is there a conservative slant to this video? At one point he is talking about 'protecting students from disagreements or ideas they might find objectionable' and in the background is an article about whether one should give trigger warnings, and then he arrives at the conclusion that some suffering/hardship is not only natural but good for us.. so it makes it seem like some of these things we worry about today is a bit over the top and unhelpful but honestly there is difference in suffering on purpose and suffering because it can't be avoided. We are not living in caves, and eating what we find to toughen ourselves up are we? Suffering for suffering's sake is cruel and it's what 'tough love' people and conservatives get wrong. Eliminating suffering is impossible and one should see it as an opportunity to grow but that doesn't mean one shouldn't avoid it when they know better as well. (and yes he is conservative because then I read the description in the video and he has written a book about conservative values.. figures!)

[@dh7425]

I thought phd thinking required proving new and original concepts 🤷🏽‍♂️ Nice link back to Epicurus. English language changes and most people now refer to epicureanism as food related. Maybe try find a different word to hinge on. And please burn your toast every morning for the rest of the year to test your concept accurately 😂

[@Anime_games-_-XUnknown]

Ignorance is bliss/a sin

[@JG-ib7xk]

Something my mom would say

[@Wanderlauch]

a few thousand years later and mankind still misunderstands Epicurus. lol

[@wazzup105]

Pain is inevitable Suffering is optional.

[@InternationalDonDadda]

Nature, first of all, isn't a mother. It's an organism.

[@Earl_E_Burd]

Organism Nature doesn't quite have the same ring to it. If someone is policing words for a sense of control, then they should keep digging to understand where that comes from, such as the behaviors of an overbearing parent who they're yet to break free from.

[@clemensrech7570]

Wrong. It's not about avoiding suffering but to lessen it. Nothing more is possible.

[@HakuCell]

umm, what? so abuse is good? trauma is good? poverty is good? alzheimer's and cancer are good? oh yes, all these things, if you overcome them, will make you appreciate a healthy life much more! but guess what, if you wanna cultivate gratitude of a good life and health and well-being, just consider the sufferings of other people, or of people who lived in the past. you don't have to endure suffering yourself to cultivate an appreciation of health and well-being. i can't believe this guy is a professor at Harvard. sure, some stress can be challenging in a healthy way, a challenge can be enjoyable, but i wouldn't call that suffering.

[@mpv9866]

Without some suffering, there's no mother Theresa, no healing etc etc etc etc etc.... @dragonchrist 🙏☯️

[@importantname]

Mother Nature is a Super Natural Being?

[@insaniquarium92]

Did I just get catfished 😂

[@danielgothits]

a lot of unhappy and triggered people in the comments LOL. meanwhile he looks happy af 😂😂 i think i know who I'll listen to

[@GMarco-qc2dp]

You talk like you haven't read Epicurus in your f life. What a pity, the most misunderstood philosopher in all history.

[@WackyConundrum]

Sheeesh! What a shallow perspective...

[@constantine9065]

If you are using Epicurus in your video to get views and then you should at least first understand what Epicurus taught...

[@imanolsenderos9427]

Is he trying to disprove Epicureism in three minutes?

[@randomephemera3268]

So if you feel like you're getting screwed over, don't worry, it's all for your greater spiritual development, lol

[@anelifloris5980]

Bla, Bla, bla

[@hallmarkuss]

Never been this early before lol

[@shantanu.t]

36K views 2K likes… goes to show how this was just a “word salad” of an argument. Haha. 😅 Sorry. Or, should I not apologize and deny your future bliss by letting suffer now?

[@ernestopreciado4895]

Nah. Go back to philosophy 101.

[@ajones8008]

Never Been this early before lol

[@gidmanone]

Always qualify your theories and whatnot when you share them with others so the people that you have in mind know that you are addressing them specifically. Otherwise, what the hell are going to tell a Nigerian in 2024 about suffering? You sit in your fancy office telling people about suffering. the level of arrogance one must have. The joy of suffering my ass.

[@chocomalk]

Sponsored by the WEF.

[@FourthOneIsIt]

Big think usually but big stink this time. Just one example; he says one has to feel fear in order to recognize danger. Sorry for you, bud.

[@happyvirus6590]

0:18 Matriarchy moment (ppl will deny it ofc)

[@cron6435]

are you saying this because he referred to nature as “mother nature” 😭 you think a man would promote matriarchy too?

[@Andre-qo5ek]

"Not only does Mother Nature not care about our happiness, Mother Nature knows that we need to be unhappy, that we need to have lots of negative emotions." mother nature doesn't "know" a damn thing about our happiness or negative emotions. this is some bull on why the Christian god is a god Christians "must fear". and why the Christian god puts people through tribulation. i am so tired of this channel. i have tried and tried and tried to put aside the trash and keep only the good...but the trash pile is too high now, just like TED with the introduction of TEDx.

[@transcripttranslation8801]

This is a bad take on Epicurus.

[@hunterkiller017]

Awful misinterpretation of epicureanism

[@Torbu6286]

Bs, your mom nature is not teleological, conflating epicurean happiness with what they do in schools which is entirely different is stupid.

[@nesrasiti]

2 me, human suffering is senseless bloodshed, corruption and censorship.. R U proudly advocating?

[@enchibla]

bs

[@asfsgdwfsfew4fwsdfgwerf232]

Never been this early before lol