PALADIN In CLASSIC WoW: Was It Any Good Though?

[@VioletShinobi]

I loved my paladin.... Going full protection mode would let you solo ANYTHING other than raids. Would it take you an hour to kill it? Yes... but that is beside the point.

[@thevlaka]

Auto attack: The class.

[@Avrelivs_Gold]

yeah if you don't have money for pots/water or can't play this class at all

[@hhhgggds]

@@Avrelivs_Gold you dont need keyboard really to raid vanilla. 2 side buttons and middle mouse is enough so "cant play class" is not an argument for pve

[@Avrelivs_Gold]

@@hhhgggds yeah like keeping judgments up and seals in regards to efficiency, adding stuns and aoe things. also stacking mana potions and water to speed up things if you can't play, please don't choose paladin, please.

[@hhhgggds]

@@Avrelivs_Gold 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Warwipf]

@@Avrelivs_Gold lmao

[@eemelin6660]

”Paladins make others shine” *breaks sheep*

[@joshuaray7706]

Most mana efficient healer in the entire game. Reduced threat of party/raid too. In vanilla, if you could heal, you specced healer, and they were one of the best MT healers in the game.

[@willt3223]

Ah yes... The holy light warrior regulated to a healer. How laughable.

[@joshuaray7706]

@@willt3223 - Priests, druids and pallys/shaman were the only classes that Could heal. Druids were, by far, the lowest rolled class. So, yes, if you could spec into the most mana efficient main tank healer build, you did. Ret dps was laughable til T3, and prot palys had limited utility outside of a few specific encounters.

[@420PraiseIt]

@@joshuaray7706 let me correct you, ret dps is laughable. Even in t3 i'd prefer having a warrior over a pala or that pala as a healer to bring a warrior/mage over. Ret dps is nothing but a meme don't give false hopes to anyone

[@joshuaray7706]

@@420PraiseIt - T3 Ret paly "DPS" wasn't meant for raids. It was, iirc, for BG or PvP server 1shot montages. Ret is Burst damage, which is king in PvP. Sry if that wasn't clear. No one takes ret palys in a raid.

[@henriquebitencourt4280]

@@joshuaray7706 even in mop the druid type that I have seen were tanks

[@ChairmanMeow1]

It may not be the strongest class, but it might be the easiest one to find friends and groups as. That's worth something.

[@YoungMadas09]

I will always remember my noob ass choosing to roll a holy paladin in vanilla because I wanted to be a undead smiting badass champion of the light... I stuck with Holy through the end of WotLK. I will always love my little dwarf pally.

[@theatfshotmydog8224]

I started in 2007 and I couldn't decide what class to play so i was browsing KZbin and came across WoW Hobbs Scarlet Monastery speed leveling video, made a Paladin and have been playing him to this day.

[@aleksadmitrovic6347]

@Roshea Wotlk is best state for paladins for sure,Ret pala in mop pvp sucks 😁 But yea i understand you bro,but i tried to play other classes,and you know what i always miss that judgment prock. Once you chose your main that is your main for the rest of the life 😁

[@henriquebitencourt4280]

@@aleksadmitrovic6347 enhancement shamans in mop also sucked at least in low levels

[@stickyglue8083]

I started a protection paladin because I wanted to be a... Tank! Silly me, in the end I was using cloth gear in MC and BWL, healing my friends 😂😂😂

[@Esoed89]

I played a rogue in vanilla, and a friend of mine played a paladin. He was all about the pala pvp, getting to grand marshal. And he'd always want duels (ofc only with his cds). Every time he'd just stand there, waiting for me to crit him four times, which would happen eventually. Then he'd bubble to avoid stuns, stun me, and reckoning bomb me. Every single time.... making me wish i had lower crit rate.

[@chrisk1458]

Ok

[@WillEmmo]

Big brain strats lol

[@miracleman.0126]

Beautiful. Though if you /sit you will be auto crit’d. Much easier to build up the reck stacks

[@adriansmith5241]

Agreed it takes a skilled rogue to beat a decent pally in 1vs1, my friend also used to play rogue in vanilla and i always would win in duels. In classic also I was on my way through hillsbrad to get to dungeon and was jumped by 2 rogues and I wiped the floor with both of them.

[@revantheno-lifedemon885]

so thats why i auto-attacked back in wrath until lvl 60 and i thought the whole time "i have to be doing something wrong here"

[@joshuaroe1402]

If you were only auto attacking in Wrath then you were doing something wrong.

[@Cleansingflames]

@@joshuaroe1402 Crusader strike and such were unlocked later than they are now. Until around level 51 when you get crusader strike and hammer of wrath, you would get single target damage from judgments, exorcism, and autoattack (and notably your taunt!) Most of your leveling until that point would be two abilities with about 10 seconds cooldown, so it is quite autoattack heavy, and that would be the majority of your damage. So while yes, wrath paladin was not an autoattack machine at higher levels, the earlier leveling was. Oh, and since holy shock unlocked earlier, holy actually did much more damage than ret in earlier leveling, starting at about level 31, with the damage staying fairly competitive for a long time.

[@olfan92]

@@Cleansingflames ret pally still had hand of reckoning, judgement and exorcism before they got crusader strike in wotlk tho. and in wotlk hand of reckoning does a lot of damage :P

[@Cleansingflames]

@@olfan92 I've recently leveled a paladin in a WotLK private server, so it's quite fresh in my mind. The damage is alright, but it's not amazing and you only get to do it once. Basically one free autoattack, and holy had every one of those spells in their full glory as well as holy shock which was on a shorter cooldown and did a LOT more damage than any of the above.

[@Cleansingflames]

@Sal Marcano Nope, Warmane. They just opened a new progression server yesterday as well so you can do the whole expansion from Naxx to ICC as they unlock.

[@Jimmy_TV]

Excellent video. I remember playing a human ret pally during the burning crusade. I was only 11 years old mind, so i wasn't very good. I think i got to level 47 (after a long, long journey) and that's where i stopped. Came back to wow a few years ago and it's great reliving old memories :)

[@WillEmmo]

It will be!

[@Jimmy_TV]

@@WillEmmo 👍

[@Urporuhtinas]

nice ags

[@Speedracer6]

The funny thing about paladin was that while the leveling might be slow, but if you played it right. A paladin would almost never die. Like those vids of paladins pretty much soloing scarlet monastery.

[@0yvindH0yland]

I loved retribution paladin, but MAN how their vanilla-design sucked when I think back. Short blessing duration, low mana, Consecration which would just tickle enemies for the cost of A LOT of mana, Seal of Command which could either destroy someone in seconds, or leave you tearing your hair out as your character lamely nudged his mace without effect for the 8th time. When we finally got Crusader Strike I was amazed by the simple fact that I could press a button and solid damage would happen instantly. In groups or raids I had so many hard times because of my retribution spec and was often forced to go Holy or Protection - which again gave me a hard time getting the gear I actually wanted, which was the damage gear, because the damage classes (understandably) didn't want to roll against their healer or tank for better equipment. This meant that I usually had to search for groups in which the damage roles either weren't warriors, or they already had better gear than they would get in the dungeon/raid anyway. And finding any group back then could easily take an hour. Yet still, I stayed with my retribution paladin all the way from classic to Cataclysm. I guess I didn't want to let the "Holy Warrior" idea go.

[@kuhaku9587]

You really need to understand how Paladin works to make it work. Seal of command proc 7 time per minute. You want the slowest weapon when using seal of command, if your weapon is fast then you should use the one you get right when you start. Attack scale with att power and spell power so using both pots and consumable make their dps increase significantly which make them a good dps in raid. Actually you can see well played dps be in the top 10 dps meter in 40 raid group. In there is no holy resistance thus your holy damage will always hit for maximum damage. Frost mage? eh no issue. Paladin is much more OP than people realise. Because most people were utter retards in 2004.

[@Fiaw1]

There is one huge aspect of a paladin in pvp that you surprisingly missed. Holy paladins were the God healers of classic. A geared paladin couldn't be killed, never ran out of Mana and enabled classes like warriors to be unstoppable(couldn't kill or stop the warrior, nor the paladin). Paladin and warrior could 2v8 a big group. As holy, paladins were an absolute TERROR in pvp.

[@adriansmith5241]

can be easly countered by some good mages on outher team though tbh

[@ProfessorThinker-zv5vt]

Shaman ended up being better.

[@donskiver]

I always thought the PvP set looked the best on paladins followed by tier 2.

[@Geraduss]

If only Ret spec started with a Crusader strike ability at lvl40 talent mark, that would have been a game changer. Doesn't even need to be some big damage, just something that breaks the auto attack monotony.

[@WillEmmo]

could have been interesting instead of repentance

[@Geraduss]

@@WillEmmo I would have loved if they did some rebalancing like that for the Vanilla servers. But then the purists who fought for the legacy servers would have gone mental.

[@devincampbell5007]

@@Geraduss they should have already gone metal with all of the minor changes

[@TheHed94]

@@Geraduss I agree it would be great to change some things that got better with time. Like debuff slots, blood lust or complete rework of paladins.

[@Geraduss]

@@TheHed94 Maybe if they go overtime in the Vanilla+ route instead of expansion routs for it, then we could see some much needed class changes while staying in the "spirit" of vanilla. Since there is a slippery slope that we've seen how it ends.. *cough*.. BfA.

[@justsomenerd8925]

I started playing WoW roughly a month after launch, and my first character was a dwarf paladin. I stopped playing pally at level 32, and switch to warlock. I can still remember where I gave up on the class, Dun Modr. It felt incredibly slow, and clunky. I ended up hitting 60 on the warlock, and it was my first toon to 60.

[@HighmageDerin]

SAME!!! took fucking forever to kill just ONE mob, ya you were never in any danger of dying to anything not elite, but still, 5 minute fights were aggravating as hell

[@JumpingJacksism]

@@HighmageDerin how the heck did you spend 5 minutes to kill anything? Pick any item "of the gorilla" and you were good to go.

[@HighmageDerin]

@@JumpingJacksism I was new to the game thing didn't understand the mechanics. Or the stat build for my character. Just went into combat and popped all of my abilities and I thought were needed, oh to be naive and new to the game again. Those were the days.

[@HighmageDerin]

PS we didn't have Wowhead then so I had to figure it all out of my own. Things changed once I joined a guild. Met some people that really helped me with my game. And showed me that Paladin really wasn't the class for me. I've always been a druid Main ever since they convinced me that was a better class for my play style and personality. Tell my second is a hunter and my third is a warlock I love pet classes.

[@MrLegovas]

I did exactly the opposite. Started a warlock and dropped him at 36 in STV. Rolled to paladin and was very happy with him. I think its more personal preferences than which class is better imo

[@TheDeviant88]

Played a Ret Paladin from 1-60 in vanilla and 60-70 in BC. It took so long and I had nothing but time back then. I even got full PVP gear. A very kind guild took me in. They called me Banana Man (Pali PvP set was kindda awful). They helped gear me for raiding and I changed to being a healer. Completely changed the game. Karazhan man... What a trip. Some of my fondest memories in Vanilla was spamming concercration in the duskwood graveyards; convincing people I was useful in dungeons and using bubble to infuriate just about everyone. This time I'm going either 'lock or Rogue. Can't decide. My Paladin still sits on my account, untouched since BC with all his raid healing gear. Good times.

[@jordanblair3659]

Dude your videos deserve so much love, fantastic job and please keep it going.

[@jvb4450]

Ret is actually good when played with dedication (read: consumables). And besides, fun to play. Good in solo pvp due to all the great utility.

[@xTreyray]

I roll everyone in solo PvP on my paladin. Agreed.

[@doksam5532]

yeah you can fight if ganked you, be sure you have a lay on hands.

[@adriansmith5241]

My opinion is ret pally make one of the best 39 twink class in vanilla, get yourself full scarlet set, Ravenger and top enchants and you will one shot those twink clothys.

[@seanmccaffrey93]

One important thing you forgot to mention for leveling, prot paladin's can AOE farm safely and effectively with the right seals and reckoning talent from lvl 36 on

[@memyselfandyouz]

I remember in WOTLK being a ret paladin in a raid and having topped the healing chart because of "Seal of Light"

[@sherrix6881]

The wotlk pala had been heavily tweaked

[@MethosChannel]

Prot paladin farming level 20-56 instances are the best one for sure. You can pull 4-5 packs and 10 seconds later not even warlocks hellfire can steal ur agro. Private server players will be confused (if they didnt play the classic beta) in "classic" cuz the mobs does almost 40% less damage.

[@adriansmith5241]

wait untill tbc, my prot pally used to be on last boss in heroic SH while healer and dps are half way through dungeon drinking to refill mana

[@DonCDXX]

I played a pally in vanilla. In raids, I was usually the only pally. My job was generally just a buff bot who focused on healing the cloth classes and stealing any aggro they got so the warrior could pull it off of me. I quit shortly after the big pally change (I think it was 1.9) so I don't really remember how the gameplay changed.

[@WillEmmo]

Thats it! Pally buffs are super good - should have at least 3 really

[@TheDrumSquad]

I remember doing seal of command and stacking agility for crit chances. This resulted in one shot cloths and leathers in PVP and pretty decent dmg in PVE

[@actionjackson7020]

i'll be playing ret in classic, they may not be at the level of damage as say wotlk pallies but the are still able to contribute. Although you have to work harder to min/max it is still able to be done if you want it bad enough

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

@@actionjackson7020 reason wy people dont want ret pallies is because they take warrior/rogue/hunter gear for worse dps. mediocre dps isnt contributing, theres nothing you bring to the raid, holy paladins bring more and thats just the truth, but theres always some casual guilds that will take a ret paladin.

[@actionjackson7020]

@@Alexandros.Mograine fortunately i already found a guild that will. I am not apposed to switching to holy once i'm raiding though if we are short healers. I dont plan to be a hardcore raider though mainly because with my job and two young kids i will be very limited to when i can put that much time aside for it. Will mainly look to do some dungeons, pvping and just enjoying the game. This is why i hope for a tbc and even more a wotlk classic server in the future, bc as someone who loves ret i would love to play when they are good as well. But i know people's opinions will very on that

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

@@actionjackson7020 ret is only good as blood elf, also if you dont have much time, holy paladins are the best choice for you, they ahave very little consumables, so you dont need to farm much, you only need to be able to raid on a couple of evenings a week and play a few hours per day. tho when aq comes guilds usually start having more raid nights. i raided as holy paladin from mc to naxx on elysium/lights hope.

[@actionjackson7020]

@@Alexandros.Mograine thanks for the info

[@SpirriX]

What's up with your resolution? You running a 4:3 resolution on a 16:9?

[@TrTriTrippin]

selfless class. that is helping me decide to stick with it as a main.

[@Jake-xn4tr]

Insanity it’s the most boring class

[@onioncultistlordoftheonion8315]

@@Jake-xn4tr I'm sorry you dont find helping others fun.

[@throrgrim6844]

Paladin was my only char in vanilla. It was a horrible painful experience. I thought I was rolling s holy warrior. What I got was a priest in plate. Classic for me will be the chance to do it right. Play a real DPS /tank

[@carlosparra9527]

Druid hahahaha

[@Avrelivs_Gold]

lol imagine people playing warrior but can't dps for good because miss/dodge/block/parry their heroic strikes lol

[@dertimofo7782]

@@carlosparra9527 i seriously hope you're joking lol

[@WilsonTexasRager]

I paid someone to finish leveling from around 22-60 for and it was worth it. After that I went to hit rank 13 and had godly raid gear healing, but also damage drops. In pvp I was as dangerous as a warrior nearly. Good times

[@bobjackson4287]

@Tyler W. Truth, i raided as a paladin in 2005 onward and what the class came down to is spam blessings by watching pallypower non stop and healing with the cloth you steal from priests. Any tier sets and good 2 handers you got were due to the raid not needing them at all. you were dead last on gearing priority. And the gear you did get handed to you was to ensure you healed better. Paladin tanking was a absolute meme for more reasons than stated here. No taunt, no crush immunity, running oom fast, needing spell power on plate and hit and mp5, crappy tanking talents. They were a mess. It was not until BC and Wrath were they became something truly special. And then got crapped on again afterwords.

[@cattysplat]

Little mention as a horde raider during Vanilla. Raiding without an equivalent to blessing of salvation in a time when threat was everything in group content was a nightmare. To gain anywhere near the same effect as 1 paladin buffing salv on a raid, horde would require 8 shamans, one for each group, limited to 20 yard range of the totem and would have to sacrifice windfury totem for tranquil air, to rub the salt in the wound even harder tranquil air totem only did -20% threat compared to blessing of salvation's 30%! Plus horde didn't even have this totem at the start of vanilla, raiders complained hard until it was eventually added, still Blizzard really wanted Horde to be hard mode for raids. I rerolled belf pally in BC and the power of the pally was very evident, unlimited single target healing with crits heals that refunded themselves, massive armor with parry and block, permanent auras you could easily change, so many powerful blessings for all sorts of classes, aoe tanking for easy dungeons, seal of casino crits for the lulz, going immune at the push of a button for 10 seconds was huge back then too. Some of the best support skills in the game like blessing of protection, blessing of sacrifice and blessing of freedom gave incredible power to your group, plus min maxing in raids with seal of wisdom/light really unleashed raidwide free regen. It was a good time to be a paladin back then, despite how many times you had to rebuff blessings, their strengths far outweight the inconveniences.

[@WillEmmo]

Good point, salvation was really the underappreicated hero for ally raiding. Its such a massive, easy to get bonus

[@rudy1999]

Yeah it does sound like insanely good ability to put on rogues or mages who do tons of dps.

[@bntagkas]

i remember leveling a dwarf paladin in wetlands on the murlocs...literally every 1 mob i had to drink for 30 seconds

[@thepompf2049]

Blessing of Wisdom saves you of that

[@duderock10111]

Then you didn't do DM at least once haha

[@honeylongwood]

Waaauuuuurrrrauuuuooooo

[@honeylongwood]

That's my best murlock impression......right there!

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

well understandable because you were a noob back then like the most of us. paladins have very little downtime actually.

[@the_Eisenstein]

"Ret had some top ttier RP potential" - best one, I'm out xD

[@Alex-im6or]

hmm rets are pretty solid in pvp

[@dertimofo7782]

@@Alex-im6or sure if you're pvping against fucking idiots.

[@loreaver3882]

Being a ret paladin (lvl 59) in Arathi basin fighting low 50 is your best bet.

[@gwendolynerosehand54]

@@Alex-im6or Ret provides a lot of solo ability, yeah. Allows you to absolutely destroy classes you outgear in ways that Holy cannot. Basically, Ret is your only way to solo farm some kinds of mobs and resources.

[@ShahroozSmith]

...You could just mix Ret and Holy together. That way when Holy was on downtime they could switch out to auto-attacks with a Two-Hander instead of having them sitting in the back twiddling their thumbs until it was the opportune time to heal/buff again.

[@bass-dc9175]

In short: yes. In long: Yes but no Dps or Tank

[@GRIMHOOD99]

Even as healers they aren't top tier. They are good utility belts same as shamans.

[@dlowe9133]

@@GRIMHOOD99 they're top raid heals. what are u talking about.....

[@lukaskonecny9992]

@@GRIMHOOD99 they are the best mana batteries in the game dude, with high crit they never run oom, tf r u talking about.

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

i played in a semi hardcore guild on elysium/lightbringer and our top 5 heals always had atleast 3 paladins. also paladins are best tanks in high lvl dungeons if you have the right gear, expecially with a mage because then they can aoe better.

[@GRIMHOOD99]

They are A class healers they are good they are not the best you will still see them in every raid anyway.

[@aurendawnstar3026]

Had a char of every class back in vanilla, but my Prot Paladin was the only one I ever got to 60 before BC. Early game leveling was certainly painfully slow of course, but I often paired up with my brother who played a Hunter at the time which helped. Though combining Consecration, Reckoning and Holy Shield did speed up solo leveling especially when pulling multiple mobs. Not to mention Rogues in PvP absolutely hated me for that combo. XD Dungeons were an interesting challenge, but doable as long as you paid attention to your group and knew what you were doing. All dungeons too, not just undead-heavy ones. Probably varies for other Prot Paladins, but it always gave me a good feeling when my healers told me things ran smoother than with a lot of Warriors they'd previously run with. Not to mention the amusement I got from certain DPS players who would go out of their way to try and screw things up for me only to either fail to reliably pull aggro from me, or for me to let them have their aggro, get squished and helplessly watch the rest of us continue to finish the fight without them (was especially funny how often I came across healers who were actually on board with the latter). Never had any illusions about raid tanking though. I knew well before I hit 60 that wasn't going to happen. However, the few times I did raid I usually ended up filling a bit of a niche roll by having both Greater Blessings of Kings and Sanctuary to choose from and gave a little bit of support healing. Not to mention I was a little more durable and a little more expendable than the main healers so if an add got loose from one of the tanks for whatever reason I could usually take a couple hits for the other healers before someone got control of it again. Overall it was a fun experience. Sure I didn't feel like the powerful holy warrior the lore made the class sound like early on, but once you get that AoE going on 6+ mobs at once and shrug them all off you certainly feel a bit powerful.

[@WillEmmo]

Great info there! The aoe benefits of prot were really solid stacking all the different damage reflects. Cheers!

[@boahkeinbockmehr]

Well... and then there is the most glorious meme of them all: the reckbomb! God is it satisfying to onehit clothies! Just takes a little bit of preparation, but since paladins aren't exactly made for the impatient that's not really that much of a problem.

[@WillEmmo]

I should have covered it :( mb there

[@MarkDrisch]

Holy pallies are the best PvP healers, period. Especially when paired with a warrior.

[@Jester-86]

But healers dont do damage so the author ignores that.

[@Industrious420]

Especially when paired with a mage*. Blessing of Protection is garbage for a warrior.

[@tychus8219]

Ye and then u get ele sham 31/0/20 makin you disappear with 2 crits, and heal like a monster...

[@henkarars]

@@tychus8219 Ele shamans can't do that to more than 1 player.. because then they go OOM and get fast killed by anyone. Also shamans are shitty healers in pvp compared to paladins, because of paladins capabilities to save their teammates with Blessing of freedom, cleanse-spamming and never get OOM with their healing crits that gives mana back.

[@Zhade99]

I was thinking about rolling a NE Rogue, but after this video, I am beggining to think about rolling a Pally. Nice video!

[@WillEmmo]

Thanks!

[@Asmodi16]

Did something hit your head while watching the video? Or why do you want to be the buff vending machine for the raid? XD

[@Zhade99]

@@Asmodi16 I am always thinkin about what to play in Classic, and even if I like Rogues in general, I think that a support class is better for getting groups, plus I love bein that one guy in the group that says "Gotchu homie"

[@Asmodi16]

@@Zhade99 Nothing against the rogue. It is viable in classic, but be careful about the paladin. It can be really frustating not being able to do dmg. Moreover some raidleaders can be quite "rough" to paladins, because there are a lot of them.

[@Lorexbg]

Holy is the best healer in classic , in this days and age there gonna be place for ret pallys in the raids but you gotta be one of of the top 10% to get a spot

[@nowelbobke1506]

Something about Holy Paladin is just still so nice, love being able to do big dps while healing and supporting teammates on CD

[@captainofthewhitetower]

I did not know how wille improved so much in his channel. I love this guy.

[@someguy4844]

this class didnt get fun until the ret pally rework in Burning crusade karazhan patch

[@badprice842]

Reck Ret was unbelievable Fun. Chilling in 10 sec rogue stun and then just oneshot them. PEW xD

[@Ra1dMaX]

wrath pre patch would be the correct patch dude

[@conceitedxo]

@Jules Juerez "too easy" they werent hard in classic either you just had to do way more to be close to being as good as everyone else xD

[@conceitedxo]

@Jules Juerez thats exactly what im saying it wasnt challenging it just required more work than for any other class at any other expansion. it had 0 to do with skill just with having to use more effort to get to what others can do easier and faster

[@MewcePewpz]

I love this series! It throws me off every time i see factions mixed in BGs lol

[@georgefletcher7926]

I don't care what anyone says about Paladins, I love my Retribution Paladin. I can solo things when solo leveling I can't solo with other classes. Also I love the class fantasy and thought they did a great job reflecting that in their kit, they are all about helping others. The auras, buffs, lay on hands, all reflect the service to others that a Paladin is all about. Take a bit of time to kill stuff? Yes, but our church says patience is a virtue, and we don't die, so there.

[@ryewhiskeyfan5946]

I started in WotLK with a Ret Paladin. I love Paladin lore in the game and in history as well. I am not sure how many times I re-speced back then. I just have to figure out which way to go and stick with in classic.

[@joshuadonnelly1978]

My first (and still main) character was a Paladin in Burning Crusade. My spec was a mess until max level, but I loved every second of it. I forget if Seal of Command was still a thing in WotLK, but if you decide to go Ret Pally in Classic, all you really need to know is to use Judgement of Command whenever it's available, especially if the target is stunned (extra damage that way), and keep re-applying Seal of Command immediately after. The RNG of the Command procs can be unreliable, but it's a simple, fun way to DPS, I think.

[@MidnightOfRain]

You deserve more subscribers. You take your time, cover everything, and I guess this might sound mean to others, but your voice is not annoying to listen to. Thanks.

[@WillEmmo]

Thanks! I need a new mic tbh

[@modE_n]

@@WillEmmo I like your videos, but here I do not think you covered everything. Holy Paladins were PvP gods, every time as horde we saw 3 Holy Palas on the opposite team in AB f.ex. We knew we stood no chance. They were extremely powerful and godmode at healing PvP, especially paired with warriors. In AQ40 and Naxx Holy Palas were insanely good healers that literally never went out of mana. This video should have been 80% about how good Holy Palas were.

[@Zaneirth]

unless this was in TBC i remember Holy paladins used to cap crit because each time their heals crit it gave them a 100% chance to get all their mana back for the spell. I remember as a Holy pally and being able to heal for 15 minutes straight over and over before running out of mana.

[@WillEmmo]

That's in Classic too, good point!

[@adrian3482]

I still have the holy mightstone I was given back in TBC.

[@pcl5636]

first 2 chars to 60 for me were warrior and paladin. Never again lol

[@WillEmmo]

Playing on max difficulty there lol

[@etaxalo]

truly a hardcore player,

[@shaunharker9519]

i was in a guild with a pro paladin he was doing 750 dps in raids matching warriors, but he had nearly every buff u could get in the game, must of cost him a fortune

[@WillEmmo]

Yep gotta put a whole lot of extra effort in!

[@CakeLorde]

Ret palidan all the way. I know I'm basically support, but if all your friends are over leveled you look like a God lol. Also I've been secretly adding some points to the holy tree ;D

[@Kirgoss]

I played Paladin back in vanilla. I basically played it as a true hybrid class fullfilling all three rolls to some degree at the same time. Mind you, back then I was new to the whole idea of characters being divided into three hard roles in games like this. I didn't think I was doing anything strange. I was a holy Paladin, but wielding a two handed weapon and armor with mixed stats (I chose armor pieces depending on what I felt like I need more of) with a bias towards wanting to deal more damage. So I played dungeons officially as a damage dealer. My dps output was, in hind sight, of course bad, but not useless. If more healing was needed, I could effectively help the healer with my own spells. If the main healer went oom, I could heal well enough to bridge the time until the healer was back to 100%. My own mana went down very quickly doing it, but it was enough for the job. If the tank lost aggro of some trash mops, I would pull them to me, because I was still tanky enough to survive that. Much better then mages, priests etc. I never raided in vanilla, but I don't feel like my playstyle would have been very useful there.

[@TheMisleduser]

My first class. not going that route again. stuck between Lock and Hunter as my choice for Classic but leaning lock because of the mount.

[@revenxyo4241]

Hunt better, lock is boring

[@FuckYoutubeHandles]

lock mount is kickable it cost mana and it starts your 5 second mana regen rule

[@DazePhase]

Holy Paladin FTW

[@TheSwartz]

This was very interesting, definitely checking out the other videos in this series!

[@WillEmmo]

Cheers

[@Bartoc1988]

You forgot the insanity you had to have for playing paladin. Refreshing the blessing every 10 or 5 minutes is something, I don´t want to remember ever again.

[@socialcockroach3307]

Also to add to that, the reagents that they needed use up in order to cast the greater versions. Most classes had reagents to use for buffs like this, but since paladins had such a short duration, they burned through them like crazy.

[@honaker326]

I'd make people do a /beg before I would rebuff them in my old guild. So they all made macro's to beg me for a buff every 5 minutes. It was very satisfying getting that from 40 people in a raid. I had leverage as a healer spec'd into blessing of santuary. lol

[@Bartoc1988]

Yeah. I had seen more paladins who used an emote for a rebuffing request. It was always fun too watch :D

[@danlorett2184]

Ooof I remember having to ask for small salvation every time because I was the only DPS warrior - if they did Greater than the tanks would have salv too lmao

[@adriansmith5241]

Healbot or pally power take away this burden

[@hoffa57]

Also a paladin's free mount at 40 and cheaper mount at 60 was offset by having skills that cost more to buy.

[@brucepraska7781]

Seriously ret Paladins were amazing pvp on later expansions being an almost go to class and speck after mists since Dk's and warlocks were arguably the best pvp classes in the game with the notable exception being rogue

[@adriansmith5241]

In TBC they good at all roles and become king of aoe tanking

[@henriquebitencourt4280]

Paladin should have stayed a alliance only class

[@alinn.4341]

We'll you forgot to say that they can one shot ppl with Reckoning :D

[@marcelthorsen]

I wish this video got the 15 minute treatment like the other class videos. Very enjoyable.

[@oJackOfSpades]

It´s true paladins are a support class. That being said.. reckoning, shockadin and even deep ret with the right gear, would deal insane bursts. On my paladin with 50/50 r10 gear and t2 I´m shockadin specced and can deal 2.5-4k dmg every 2 minute in a controlled burst (stun, judgement, divine favour, holy shock). This burst combined with SoC procs and mby a crit here and there was like a huge execute that could be thrown away regardless of the enemy hp. Even in full pvp-healing gear I´d run up to some cocky lock with 50% hp left and just blow him out of existence before I resumed my healing. Reason why ret are so frowned upon in pvp settings is because people are retardedly gearing them as if they were a warrior. They´re thinking "white hits" instead of thinking "spellpower, int, stam and crit". A paladin with a low mana pool in vanilla is literally a grenade launcher. 2 big bursts then you´re out.

[@cheekynandos5706]

It's kind of annoying how people are choosing what class is the best instead of choosing a class for its class fantasy.

[@WillEmmo]

I like a bit of both really, many people cant look past the actual journey to 60 though these days :(

[@CTouO1]

Well no offence but ... what class fantasy in Vanilla are you talking about ? Paladin is the supreme example of that, after playing Warcraft and you watch Uther swinging his hammer and undeads scattering in fear and beeing this amazing holy warrior whos selfless and rightheous only to pick in in WoW to realize your barely even using any of your holy abilities to actualy smite the undeads and are resserved early on to running arround buffing people in raids while your two other talents specs are basicaly down to chugging pots and afking half the time cause you were mostly out of mana, thats your idea of a Holy Warrior who is rightheous and the bane of every undead or demon who dares to threaten civilians ? Roleplaying yes but when you actualy want to play 80 % of what the game offers then your basicaly a buff bot till end game where you become the most broken healer in the game, so please educate us a little bit about class fantasy in Vanilla

[@justabbygal4777]

Who are you to gatekeep how to enjoy the game? How can this bother you in any way?

[@pikkons]

Thing I loved about my Paladin in vanilla wow was how much it was the anti Rogue class, I don't know about others but I stomped Rogues with my Paladin with ease

[@akiw9706]

Pikkon totally agree with you - except I was the rogue that couldn’t kill a single paladin till BC

[@pikkons]

@@akiw9706 I looked at games differently back then and a lot of them operated the same way, nowadays every game tries to balance every class and make them equal when to me it shouldn't be that way. I miss the old style where you had counter classes like vanilla WoW for instance. I mean it's been a really long time since I played vanilla WoW so I don't remember everything, but I do remember each class had a class that countered it really well. This might have not made for the best solo PVP experiences, but when groups were set up right and work together it made for really good strategic play.

[@user-rc9jf8ng2k]

@@pikkons That's why they should add arenas to classic, no rewards, no titles, just a few arenas to queue for.

[@MrLegovas]

Damn right my man. I loved when some rogue (giving he was not 10+lvl higher) were trying to gank me. Cos i had insignia and never used any CD abilities in pve i was always ready. I remember one time when i was about 35 and lvl ?? Rogue opened up on me. But that day gods of crit and proc were on my side and i killed him during my stun! That definitely not how all my fights were .. but that was a glorious day

[@wross5961]

From what I remember you only had three paladins in a raid for each type of buff lol; warriors were Gods when they got geared properly.

[@WillEmmo]

Yep at least 3, salvation, might and kings are super good

[@mrillis9259]

Could bring 8 for MC for fire resistance.

[@mihaa94sky]

Might, Salvation, Wisdom, Kings, Sanctuary, Light You needed at least 6 to cover each buff for everyone in raid. It's not necessary to do so, but it's good to have.

[@adriansmith5241]

In early vanila pallys are always top of the heal chart in raids so why would you not bring

[@Sirkostas81]

Tier 2.5 pallie here with ashkandi back in vanilla , have to say that i had so much fun in bgs as ret , yes helping the party is where pala shines , but i could kill easy 2-3 ppl alone defending stables or bs in ab , and even as ret if u had t2 t2,5 gear on u could switch on healing mace and shield and nothing could kill u or ur party :)

[@technewsfortechnoobs]

"Players will be able to see how much you've 'no life'd"...I lol'd so hard at that cause I am soooo guilty of it. I ran BWL for years trying to get one or two missing pieces of my Judgement set. :)

[@NeilRoy]

I mained a pally from 2005 on and loved it. And I played it as Ret. I was mainly interested in questing and such, though eventually I joined a guild and healed with him quite a bit. Never tanked with him, we always had a warrior tank. All in all, I found it quite enjoyable to play over the years. For BC I gave him a rest though and switched to a shadow priest and in Wrath a mage (arcane, one button, LOL). It's definitely a great class to level with, I solo'd Hogger and Princess with him. With the free mount and the right professions, you could use him to earn some gold for other characters. There was a ring you could get which would freeze everything that made farming easier as well.

[@WillEmmo]

Nice one, good choice of characters there. Paladins could certainly farm well - I may of overlooked this! As for the rings that can freeze I can think of Deadman's Hand or Freezing Band Both pretty hard to get as World Drops!

[@NeilRoy]

@@WillEmmo That sounds like it. You got it from... one of the Scarlett dungeons, I forget the name. Scarlett monastery? I can picture the area in my head. Was THE farming ring to get. Also, someone else suggested that when Classic drops, a good profession to take early on is skinning as you won't be selling much on the AH as nobody will have the gold and I guess leather that you skin can vendor quite nicely. I may try this out.

[@sadtoast6122]

Flash backs to when they were terrible lol last time I played a pally around 2012 was really good tho I loved leveling as protection doing big pulls no issue IDK how they are currently

[@WillEmmo]

in bfa? They good all around. Classic well they have some good points

[@Vic-qp1gk]

In bfa, they pop wings and your character is deleted basically. That's how rets are, holy heals like no other and prot, well prot is just OP as far as tanks go... lol

[@KenjiAsakura09]

*WING ME!!!*

[@Sizdothyx]

AQ40 was where Paladins shone. In a place where OOM was the norm, Holydins would still have half a bar when Druids and Priests were guzzling pots.

[@Ra1dMaX]

unless you were a holy paladin you were worthless in raids and would not even be considered over a green geared mage or warlock even if you were in full epic gear as prot or retribution, wich is my reason for staying away from classic and i know those rose tinted nostalgia sunglasses will drop off quick for alot of ppl.. Vanilla was an ok start for wow but far from the best or the worst . Alot of classes and specs was severly overtuned(naked rogue with lvl 1 daggers beating ppl 1v1 in full on warlord gear anyone?) while alot others were close to unplayable in a group setting. i remember the guild i was in had to have a GM with us in both MC and BWL just to make sure everything worked out ok on some bosses(this was pretty common stuff back then) . vanilla had a crapton of bugs. and this is from somone who stuck with paladin all the way to 60 before i found out pretty much everything exept holy was crap in even entry raid level like LBRS and UBRS. so guess what i ended up as a holy paladin . and for me healing is a snoozefest. i did great its not that i found it tedious and boring pressing all of 2-3 buttons(2 ranks of flash of light and 1 rank of holy light) for 6-8 hours on end. i switched over to warrior and rogue by the end of vanilla and didnt touch my paladin until the WOTLK pre patch when retri finally got the right tune they should have had from the start. yeah yeah long rant i know . thanks whoever read this to the end . FUN fact mages and warriors are the 2 least nerfed classes in this game why? because 4 of the main devs played those 2 classes

[@WillEmmo]

Nice insight! Funny you actually need a GM to oversee a smooth raid from a technical standpoint! I always try and point out the positive for each class than solely focusing on the negatives, but its true that paladins overall had it rough, but at the end of the day, Salvation, Might and Kings gives you a raid spot. Also Holy is great, but it really is just Flash of Light spam at you gear more

[@JumpingJacksism]

Not at all. We cleared bwl as cloth geared 13yr olds with no insight as to whatever was going on. It will be just fine if you stay out of the toxic communities.

[@ismaeldeleija8165]

dude, warriors have been pretty bad in other expansions... like .. really bad... im talking in pvp they was being kited and killed by anyone

[@kyeema-of-the-shadows]

they were also last to get their class revamp in classic including getting 15 min buffs they only got good when the horde got them loved my pally after TBC hit

[@Logan-zw6eh]

He forgot to point out that if a rogue opens on the wrong pally he gets 1 shot

[@Gameshunter92]

Remember playing Holy PLD as it was the only thing you would be allowed. Terrible at keeping an entire group alive but at keeping a single target PLDs were gods thanks to the 100% MP return from crit heals... I have one fresh memory of a run through Stratholme Undead Wing... Baron Rivendare was the worst boss for a PLD healer... that fucking aura. As luck wanted it, I ended up running out of MP in what it seemed an eternal fight... and I got fucking blamed for not keeping people alive... Not my problem if you don't kill the boss faster!

[@henkarars]

for people saying auto-attacks are boring.. bro... literally the auto-attack is what adds feeling and awaits for that satisfying seal of command to pop and also your reckoningpoints. it doesn't just have to be about spamming on buttom like Snister, or mortal strike.

[@idwiw-8767]

First time playing world of Warcraft I picked paladins gotta live up to my hero

[@TardRepellent]

as for pvp Reck will be nerfed in the re-launch of vanilla but I loved half "twinking" a ret paladin for 29-35 world PvP. using engineer grenades you could stop people kiting you while getting a big burst from your judge with increased damage to incapacitated targets. they were actually pretty OP lower level pvp.. endgame requires too much gear.

[@TardRepellent]

@ShanKaneV you sound upset, not sure why. reckoning got nerfed around the same patch Vanilla will be and it's an abuse of game mechanics so yeah it would be a huge blunder to include it considering so many people know of it and how to exploit it. common sense, really. relax.

[@TardRepellent]

@ShanKaneV you're being extremely hostile for no reason at all so yeah you definitely come off as upset. it won't be in classic. you clearly don't know the history of why it was nerfed in the first place yet you're attacking me because I'm not posting you a link telling you why. it's common sense, which isn't all that common apparently. I'm not going to do your research for you, because that's ignorant. relax.

[@TardRepellent]

@ShanKaneV look how emotional you are over nothing. it's pathetic, honestly. "or are you just tooting your own horn" I'm convinced you don't even know what that means but I don't forgive stupidity.

[@kiorima]

Hi WillE! Been watching all of your "Was it any good though" videos now and you're hyping me up for classic so hard! You truly deserved a sub from me. Great work on the videos! :D

[@so_qp]

Played holy paladin at nostalrius and early classic ... i think they are most mana efficient healers at vanilla wow , every warrior tank wants holy paladin friend, they are just awesome single target healers and pvp-wise is also best possible healer for wsg/arathi basin premades...

[@coffeepot3123]

Back in 06 i was clubbing Harvest Golem's in Westfall like there was no tomorrow. I recall wearing brown colored armor, and the lack of coins saddened me a great deal.

[@peanutwars]

Man I wish ret was good for raiding in classic

[@josephhuffman2757]

I remember playing a Holy Paladin back in the day and saving the group from "oh shit" moments on several occasions and feeling like such a badass because of it. Sure the dps was awful but I like supporting other people and so will probably play a Paladin again in classic.

[@WillEmmo]

Yep holy is super good and blessing are invaluable

[@Hifcrea]

How on earth did blizzard make the paladin such a boring class. I mean a holy righteous warrior with massive two handers. And they give them a garbage rotation and no interesting attack spells. Why. Why not just make them epic and amazing

[@MiraSubieGirl]

I think they made them alternate healers and nothing more... No one wants Pally or any class to be OP like real WoW original launch haha

[@fatalexception1269]

Blizz saw them as a support class.

[@Avrelivs_Gold]

it's not boring at all if you play Retribution or Protection it's very challenging if you are pushing it and always some drama, because there are always some salty Warriors and Rogues around lol

[@Ippiki9]

Paladins had an instant attack and a Heroic Strike equivalent, called Crusader Strike and Holy Strike, both were removed right before beta ended in the 1.1.0 patch. I'm not sure why this happened, but it sure left a lasting impact on the class for vanilla.

[@armorers_wrench]

You know, the ret paladin is one of the few classes that they get right in modern WoW. It's ten times more fun than the original ret pally. It would have been A LOT better if classic ret had crusader strike but we didn't get that until TBC. The only thing I wish modern ret had a bit more of is heals. But it's really very very fun if you're looking for something to try in modern WoW.

[@x3wildcard]

Ret is the most fun spec in BGs imo (until like Cata era fire mage anyway). The clutch plays you can pull out, the ability to cockblock hunters & mages trying to burn your team... it's glorious.

[@Euruk1]

As a horde main il defiantly have a paladin alt on another server. Pretty cool and unique class.

[@Euruk1]

@metalfaust19 Yeah mine will be for PvP only most likely. Will make one around phase 3 when BGs drop.

[@Zorcon741]

I wonder if alliance can mind control horde to buff them up before an important fight

[@WillEmmo]

I have heard mixed reviews on this from private servers. But can't find anything from Vanilla forums, so, maybe yes, maybe no!

[@scdogg444]

Even if you could, the buffs don't last long enough.

[@sanji2158]

@@scdogg444 15 minutes is more than enough to pull off an encounter with very few exceptions

[@lhfirex]

I still really preferred the old vanilla beta build of paladins before they had the seals/judgement stuff. Blessings were there, heals were there, but instead of seals and judgement, they had holy strike and crusader strike. Holy strike was basically heroic strike but it added holy damage (and costs mana), crusader strike was sunder armor but increased holy damage dealt to the target (and costs mana). Pretty much all of their vanilla healing/buffing abilities were there. I think they changed it because it was basically a holy melee version of warriors, so it didn't really feel unique, but I liked it more since you had more than just auto attacks and seal procs.

[@stain6160]

Mained a Pala in Vanilla. imo one of the biggest issues ,is the lack of paladin gear until T2 and people "misusing" paladins. what i mean by that is people gearing up paladins with full cloth gear for the +healing witch is nice but paladins are not meant to replace priests. I wear plate , and if I get aggro from an add,the tank doesn't have to freak out,I can take it. T2 holy paladin was so fun....spell dmg plus healing. you want to kill me? better clear your schedule for the day. Plus when i get you to 50ish% hp,start running cause the burst is coming hard. Pair a good holy paladin with a good warrior in pvp and it is just mayhem

[@paulleach3612]

The off tank (with benefits) was also my favourite role in the group. You could hear relief in others voices as you dropped buffs, supported the healer(s), and pulled any excess aggro away from the tank(s) if swamped. Often all at the same time...

[@WillEmmo]

Pala + warr are NUTS in pvp. Actually near unstoppable in late game gear

[@rathfoks5051]

Ret paladins are vastly underestimated in pvp, especially when geared, they can fuck people up.

[@WillEmmo]

I underestimated them in the vid tbh, should have gone into more detail.. first vid in series :(

[@fatjonseatingadventures5429]

To be honest, outside of Naxx, nothing is really limiting you on dps for Ret to not be playable in raids... that said, you won't see ret like mages/rogues/warriors/warlocks

[@johnnyroe8053]

lel

[@laius6047]

lvl 35 paladin. And I had no idea that I will be autoattacking so muuuuuuuch

[@fenikslied]

If you want to main this in Vanilla, don't touch any damage class. You won't go back once you experience it. My main was pally, switched to mage when I rerolled Horde and I just couldn't stomach the class any more in BC when I tried to make a Belfadin. Also, you're not completely accurate about Ret: Also remember in classic your gear could still allow you to be decent at something even if you didn't spec it. I was ret but would heal 5 mans. It's not optimal but raid leaders and guild leaders should remember to test the players' individual skill before requiring a respec. And the value of those buffs just can't be stressed enough. Mana regen was on a 5 second cooldown after your last cast, so blessing of wisdom was a big deal.

[@skitstorm5634]

Nox Arbor BoK is 11pt in prot or am I missing something with your comment?

[@fenikslied]

@@skitstorm5634 Well it was a 31 pt talent in Vanilla. I don't know if it's changed because they decided to rework the trees completely or if it's because I'm not remembering the Paladin rework properly, but in any case, that's absolutely disappointing. Ret really offers you nothing in terms of support and you don't get enough damage to make up for it.

[@fenikslied]

web.archive.org/web/20041208193605/wowvault.ign.com:80/View.php?view=Talents.View&category_select_id=12

[@fenikslied]

I can't find the 1.8 calculator but I"m sure it was that way at least up until through that point.

[@John2015-l5u]

Open world pvp with full reckoning stacks is OP as hell

[@onioncultistlordoftheonion8315]

It's a silly thought, but i've always wondered what the player perception for the class would be if it was called 'cleric' as opposed to 'paladin'? Because despite priest being a thing paladin is much closer to a D&D style cleric then a paladin in vanilla wow.

[@hurmeli]

That cardio joke hurt, oh gods the running.

[@tommygunn5860]

It breaks my heart that ret is going to be garbo again, lol

[@pogiskerdezz]

I recommend checking out Dexterbravo's Spelladin guide, or Pudgy's Spellhybrid. ;)

[@BlueShadesX]

Retri was and will always be garbage xD

[@sanchisMAD]

Edrani it was fun on wotlk

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

maybe a bit misleading because paladins can own in pvp with the right gear/talents.

[@dusty_reaper96]

Ret is good in tbc as long as ur blood elf for seal of blood

[@Suntzurvr]

It was so good Horde complained until they got them too in TBC.

[@WillEmmo]

Blessings OP!

[@undertyped1]

@@WillEmmo they really are considering threat was important in vanilla. Having a buff that gives you 10% all stats, 3% reduced damage taken, mp5, 30% reduced threat, and a bunch of attack power is absurdly strong. 5 paladins is all you need to get all these buffs, but you need 8 shamans to get all their buffs, and they aren't nearly as good. Windfury totem is nice, but the limiter is not dps it's threat. :(

[@thevlaka]

windfury, poison cleanse and tremor > paladin

[@justanoob4425]

Put it this way. I came in at the end of vanilla and played through till totc25. I raided as ret and holy, and then even Pvp'd as holy spec in tank gear. I womped kids the entire time I played and I might have gotten camped, but I honestly remember being the one who camped people and chased people down for revenge kills. I spent time in the open world arenas and my damage was always really good. So play the class. It's going to be a great time. I was always able to protect myself from world pvp and find PUGs . You will end up leading PUGs because you will find that you have to off heal or switch weapons. *all the time* . So you're going to get geared . And it's going to be awesome when you seal of command proc a horde guy stealing your mobs. You literally melt their face off in one blow.

[@MikeLikesChannel]

The paladin was so broken in vanilla. I main’d one until TBC. Raided through AQ40 as a healer. I was over it. Been a mage/warrior ever since. I know Blizzard improved them, but it put me off hybrids for good.

[@tc7584]

Holy Pally is a fun class for PVP and in a group with friends ret can be viable in pvp as well. I had a blast in vanilla with an alt pally. Everyone talks about how much it sucks to level but my first 1-60 was a dwarf warrior..... so yea pally seemed like I was in the fast lane.

[@liquidgoose9730]

When people ask me wut class do i main, i always ask them if they are reffering to Classic or Retail. In retail i main human ret pally cuz in retail ret pallys are actually good. In classic however i main orc warrior cuz sadly pallys are terrible in classic.

[@Yanosification]

Pala as: -Tank: too risky because of crushing blow - Ret: not enough dmg, doesn't offer enough to the raid -Holy: Most useful Pala, BUT there was no good Plate healing equipment, so Holy Paladins often had to use "dresses2 (cloth gear)

[@HallyVee]

Excellent. You made an entire video reviewing gameplay without confusing your subjective preference for objective quality. Depressing how rare that is.

[@gromgardenlor]

As a vanilla paladin. The experience sucked. I truly fucking hated it, so i made a shaman at the end of Vanilla and never looked back.

[@bobhope2380]

so sad you didnt go over the teir set bonus's

[@WillEmmo]

My bad! First vid in series so i missed some bits out for sure

[@WillEmmo]

I know! First vid in series I just derped out and forgot to include em. They are mostly for healing though

[@bobhope2380]

@@WillEmmo we all make mistakes, great video otherwise!