Mislabelling... or INTENTIONALLY misleading?

[@MikeyRB77]

The liner notes on his 1983 release "Peter Gabriel Plays Live" said this: "Although this album was compiled from four concerts in the mid-West of the United States, some additional recording took place not a thousand miles away from the home of the artist. The generic term for this process is 'cheating'. Care has been taken to keep the essence of the gigs intact, including 'human imperfection'."

[@SamLowryDZ-015]

Kudos

[@mistertor]

Came here to say this. I have that album, as well, and always chuckle when I read that.

[@harveyd_5-11under]

​@@mistertorit's honest, unlike much of the recent stuff Fil's shown us.

[@jamesbatcho]

I came here to say this as well. Peter has been open about the fact that he'll augment live recordings. It's the same thing with the Genesis box set, and they admitted it. It's when artists don't fess up that it's an ethical issue.

[@WIP532]

Original footage should be included on a bonus disc to keep the real fans happy

[@dizzysnakepilot]

Fil making a video on you is the modern equivalent of the 60 Minutes van pulling up in your driveway.

[@suzukibn1131]

😂👍🏻

[@MikeyRB77]

Defined by his age, yes.

[@RandomGuyDan]

I hate when they "restore" live audio to the point where it sounds like a studio track and you lose the imperfections that make live music so fun.

[@raygunsforronnie847]

I'm back! FOH mixer guy for "artists you've heard of." I previously mentioned Gabriel doing wholesale replacement of his live vocal with studio overdubs for the DVD sound tracks. Back at the end of his time with Genesis he was punching in vocal corrections for Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Wanting his best representation to be on the video release is not new, nor is it exclusive to Gabriel. I like authentic performance recordings as a personal preference, but understand that what is being done with DVDs, movies, TV segments, is all about the visual side. Perhaps we need a label to the effect of "visuals and audio may be *representative* of a live performance"? I don't know, but I'd rather Peter Gabriel "fix" his vocals in the studio for the DVD than have Peter Gabriel lip sync to a pre recorded studio vocal in concert. I think the key to understanding videos like Garbriel's concerts or Stop Making Sense by Talking Heads is that we're seeing the director's version of a story about a band and performers telling stories. We're seeing and hearing this all through the vision of another artist. Also the faux outrage in the comments is kind of amusing. The Athens video has been hiding in plain sight and sound since dinosaurs and VHS ruled the earth. The videos of the So tour, or Secret World, have been out for ages, too, and it's apparent that when all the different vocal mics sound the same, what we're hearing from the video is not the raw audio, possibly recorded contemporaneous with the video. The lack of previous outrage is either suspicious or stunning, not sure which.

[@saschagluck2346]

Just you wait, one day someone will claim that the original, honest-to-god classic live albums like "Live And Dangerous", "Unleashed In The East", "David Live", "Strangers In The Night", "Snaz", "Kiss Alive!", "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out" or "Wings Over America" might contain overdubs... 😁Seriously, touching up live videos and albums is as old as Rock And Roll. I'm concerned about seeing performers at a concert I am attending miming - but if I buy a live album, I am aware that I AM buying exactly that, an ALBUM. Selling the illusion of a performance... and I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if it's done right. All those albums I've mentioned are classics for a reason, and personally, I don't care how much retouching has been done. They're albums.

[@MelanieMaguire]

I think some of this outrage at post-production is simply the (previously ignorant) audience's reaction to what happens behind the scenes in the entertainment industry... "what?! that's not real blood?" and is completely normal. Publicity photographs are retouched. Clark Gable had false teeth, so did Tina Turner. Audrey Hepburn didn't sing in "My Fair Lady". I object strongly to paying for a ticket to a live performance then watching miming to a backing track. But that's not what happened here - this is post-production on a concert video. I would prefer the warts and all live version, but I don't think that's the way the industry works. It never has. Greasepaint, lights, prosthetics, invented backstories, stage names, body doubles etc are all part of the smoke and mirrors.

[@MarkGelderland]

@@saschagluck2346 What's the point of calling it a live album than?

[@tangogrrl]

@@MelanieMaguire You’re quite right! I’d love to hear Fil do an ‘expose’ on the ‘bait and switch’ hidden and uncredited ‘ghost singer' Marnie Nixon, who dubbed many of the great leading ladies in famous musicals of the era- "My Fair Lady” as well as "West Side Story" and “The King and I”- even some of Marilyn’s high notes.

[@ryanmatney9013]

Live in Athens was filmed like a movie.. He did the songs over and over to planned camera shots. There's footage on here of some of the outtakes. Pre recording the vocals allowed for some more intricate filming to be planned.

[@cindi1313]

It's nice that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt and calling it mislabelling. Since it has been up for 10 years and people are mentioning in the comments that it is not live, I'm guessing it was more likely intentional.

[@marksmorphs]

If anyone saw the most recent Professor of Rock interview with the singer of missing persons, she said that Frank Zappa once told her to never do in the studio what you can't do in the parking lot without a mic.

[@paia9120]

Fil:'"I'm just going to let this live performance play through." Stops for analysis 2 seconds in.

[@zetmoon]

The first 2 seconds were already so suspicious that it’s hard not to comment right away!

[@glamgal7106]

@@zetmoon I think Fil should do some type of documentary TV series on what he's been uncovering. I can't think of a good idea for a title right now...something like "Live or Mimed?" or "You Got Caught" LOL.

[@blindazabat9527]

On Peter's "Plays Live" album, it is clearly mentioned it has been "reworked" in studio. So we've known what to expect from his "live" performances for a long time.

[@glamgal7106]

It seems like other musicians rework their live performances in the studio. I'm not sure if this is particularly applicable but Sweet's bassist Steve Priest mentioned that while their 1973 performance was being recorded live, drummer Mick Tucker's snare drum mic had disconnected. Therefore, he had to overdub about 1/2 of the show with just the snare in the studio. Steve said, "He was brilliant. I do not know how he did it."

[@Johngram1000]

All of PG's official live concert "films" are well known and openly acknowledged to have re-recorded vocals. A more interesting question is whether he actually mimed live in crowd-shot video.

[@baerenonkel]

I doubt it.

[@SeattleSpursFan1882]

Fil, Peter has commented on this in interviews and it specifically states in the liner notes of the DVD of this video, that post production was done on all the tracks including over dubbing the lyrics. This was due to the horrible decision to not put any time or thought into recording his tour with the best possible mobile studio technology available. Which, for Peter Gabriel, is a head scratcher. I'm surprised Geffen records didn't insist upon it, knowing this was going to be the album that actually made their contract with Peter fruitful.

[@ikhnaton]

Peter Gabriel is well-known for re-recording his vocal tracks, a practice he seems to have applied to most of his "live" albums. One of the most striking examples of this is with Genesis. He re-recorded a significant portion of the vocals for the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway performance at the Shrine Auditorium in 1975, as well as for the Rainbow Theatre show in 1973. In these re-recordings, you can clearly hear his 1996 voice mixed with his original vocals from the 1970s, creating a noticeable contrast. He actually started re-recording his vocals quite early. For instance, on Genesis Live from 1973, during the song "The Return of the Giant Hogweed," you can clearly hear two Peter Gabriels singing simultaneously, along with Phil Collins providing backing vocals.

[@tangogrrl]

wow. thanks

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

I'm not a Genesis fan, so I wasn't aware that Mr G has been post-producing his vocal tracks for so long. Interesting information!

[@j.m.w.5064]

What about Peter Gabriel's 'Secret World - Live' from 1993? It sounds more alive, (including interaction with audiences). But is it?

[@ThePutosaure]

​@@j.m.w.5064 To my knowledge PG overdubbed all his live recordings. Pretty obvious on most of the tracks of Secret World.

[@JayRiemenschneider]

Wow I’m a big fan of the 73 official live record and that Hogweed in particular. Will have to listen, are you sure of this assessment? Thanks, interesting

[@IThinkYouLookLarvely]

Genesis fans will know Peter replaced a few extra sections on a 1998 release of a Lamb Lies Down on Broadway gig (Genesis Archive box set). I found it strange, as those bits were quite obvious as his voice had got darker and deeper in tone. It turns out many fans weren't keen on it, but he is (or was) insecure about it. The '87 clip here is obvious for the same reasons, as his voice was still quite "young" sounding, and the vocals sound like they're from a good while later (as well as the studio mic sound). Another poster says this happened with the '73 Genesis Live album, but he has not redone that (yet!)

[@mariannsimms5644]

This is so strange as about 6 o'clock this morning I was telling my son, "Well, Fil didn't do one on Peter Gabriel yet - maybe I should suggest it..." and then I just see this show up on my feed. I went to his Biko tour back in 1982 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia and had 3rd row seats in a sold out stadium...just a great show. Gabriel is my favourite singer of all time so I was quite afraid to watch this video...but, I do believe they do take bits and pieces from other shows and spiffy up the vocals for these releases. I've seen it mentioned on the live albums before about them doing this with Genesis so I guess they assumed everyone would know. I'd be curious to see the actual footage and hear the vocals to it...I don't think Peter would mime them without letting people know, or at least I'd hope so.

[@zigzag1a]

It took 2 seconds for me to decide if it was live or memorex.

[@mpg3960]

Another interesting Video Fil thanks. Wouldn't it be great if we/you could track down the "Actual" aduio recording from one of the nights in Athens. So we could compare the vocals. Also , obviously if someone had been there in the crowd they could tell us "Oh yeah, you know what, it was a fab concert but Peter was suffering a bit and on the night his vocals were pretty rough" :-) As a seventeen year old I saw Pink Floyd at Knebworth 75 I think. Two songs in, the main Hammond Organ blew up. It threw the whole show off. I remember it as one of the best nights of my life, however I bet Pink Floyd demanded any recordings of it were destroyed ! :-)

[@glamgal7106]

Thanks for this awesome analysis on Peter Gabriel. I appreciated how you compared his two different performances and how you pointed out how a singer's movements affects their voice when singing. Fil, I can picture you doing some type of TV series with what you've been uncovering in your more recent videos regarding "live" performances--I can't think of a title right now but something like "Live or Mimed?" Bad jokes aside, thanks for what you do and "to thy own self be true," Fil!

[@Veeger]

I remember seeing Peter Gabriel POV tour performing with Youssou Ndour and African dancers at Earls Court and it was before the Athens gig. He couldn't sing like the record because he was jumping about so much. It proved it was live at the time.

[@tangogrrl]

yay

[@raygunsforronnie847]

Yes. What you hear from the PA at a Gabriel show is his live voice. What you hear on the resulting video that comes out a year later? The video may be from a different night than the audio and the audio was likely "fixed" in post production for the DVD.

[@koncorde]

There's a video on youtube on PG's channel called "Ben Findlay - Restoring Peter Gabriels 'Live in Athens', haven't watched it yet but it might be interesting to see what clues he gives to overdub - redub - "restoration". And I have to say I'd be disappointed if after 40 years someone actively went back and remastered to the point of remaking Gloria Estefans "Homecoming" concert for instance. I can kind of understand like overdubbing promos etc - but if I bought a DVD of the 88 concert then I want the 88 audio, warts and all.

[@blindazabat9527]

I love your work, mate!

[@jesusislukeskywalker4294]

😬 concert tickets will have to become labelled ⚠️ WARNING ☝️ actual performance only includes posturing and dancing around a bit 😬

[@Tvianne]

oh dear, I shouldn't laugh, but this is a good one 👏👏👏

[@terrynolan609]

Concert goers would have had a live experience. It's just what happened after for video purposes

[@raygunsforronnie847]

In this case, it's the video that has had the recording edited or re-recorded, not the live show.

[@WesternSwingGuitarGrooves]

Haha 👍 love it!

[@markkinnish1196]

Great update as always Fil

[@ROOKTABULA]

It was _very_ common back in the day to make promo videos that used live footage (for the energy) of the studio track that was for sale. Because the majority of artists weren't cheating live, as is the case now, no one thought this was an attempt to con us as is the modus operandi now.

[@MattHillSongwriter]

I think it was a standard practice in the 70s /80s that official ‘live’ albums would involve some studio overdubbing. That feels more likely than them using backing tracks and clicks live, especially in 1987. Digital technology was at infancy.

[@Mr.Dobalina_Mr.BobDobalina]

Gabriel's "Secret World Live" is another example. It's visually beautiful, but the vocals were re-recorded for its release.

[@DavidLazarus]

I saw Peter in 1993. His vocals were great! That said, he is a perfectionist. That's why it takes him so long to release new material.

[@Melodymatters2me]

"Noise gates" "plosives" Great informative and educational breakdown of this performance, Fil. Keep up the great work. You are an excellent teacher and I always learn new things from your channel. 🤘🎸

[@KYRIE_eleison2]

I agree 💯

[@tangogrrl]

Should be called "Music- Gate!"

[@Melodymatters2me]

Yes ​. Lol

[@JamieMcgee518]

Back, when," Frampton Comes Alive" , came out, the controversy was ... The live track was taken to the studio, then enhanced with instruments and corrected studio vocals.

[@vallaindigital]

My guess is studio overdubs made after the fact. This was so common. So many supposed "live" concert films I've watched, I detected things like that, like unmatching mouth movement to vocal (or mic away and you still hear the singing clearly), drums hits that you don't hear or vice versa (I used to play drums, so I could spot that fairly easily).

[@seansarto]

Seeing the “So” tour at MSG in my teens was the first time I thought “this rock and roll…in terms of art..there’s something genius going on here…”

[@tangogrrl]

It's still true tho.

[@Cashcrop54]

The audio sounded more than suspicious right off. Things are insane. Why do they have to make all this so complicated? They are only increasing the opportunities for things to go very wrong and it's the singer who ends up very embarrassed and the real culprits. Thanks Fil!

[@bobbarker1476]

I saw him in 87 at Agora Ballroom in Hartford. Packed crowd in middle of summer and he was late onstage for almost 2 hours. By the time he appeared, every spectator was soaked in sweat and many had left the show. I know I did. It was not pleasant.

[@summerforever6736]

No AC?

[@Cortez77fr]

When I go to a PG gig, I don't tell I see a Live, but a Performance. It seems like me a lot of people knows already he's a control freak and overdubs a lot his "lives" records, but on stage, if I think we mostly ear is voice Live, I've had serious doubts on the whole music track? And I'm totally aware all of his top class musicians could perform PG music at 1000% live BUT on Growing Up Tour, first all plays with a personal screen with a timecode and colored blocks (chorus, verses...) a kind of visual "play on click", I don't know the software but you can seen those screens on some official live. And in Paris when he was playing Downside Up with is daughter (both upside down hanging from the scenery) the music... jump few bars. All on stage looking surprised and smiling, and continuing like nothing happens. My explanation is when you do a total show with music, moving stages, special effects... you have to be in perfect sync on the light show, the best choice could be to have some partial backing tracks.

[@danivh92]

PG's live albums are 99% overdubbed. He even acknowledged it in the album "Plays Live". "Secret World Alive" is another obvious example 😅

[@ChrisLawton66]

Please check out The Big Push busking sessions. Or Ren and Sam Tompkins busking. Fantastic live vocals as far as I can tell.

[@RenePeraza]

It's like Bowie's 'Modern Love' music video... Album track + live performance shot with and without an audience. The closeups are without an audience.

[@seasideman]

Yes, the video was shot over 3 nights, and the audio: "In 2012, the audio was restored and mixed by Ben Findlay (alongside the concert film), for the So 25th anniversary album". I guess "restored" in this context means replaced with a studio vocal. Backing vocals were added afterwards too.

[@johnbriggs3916]

That should read "stored and mixed" 😉

[@travisash8180]

I'm disgusted with Peter Gabriel.

[@koncorde]

I suspect there's a lot of footage recorded of (effectively) rehearsals or similar where he's not required to sing, but is just going through the motions for the camera close-ups, edits and cutaways, and then similarly there'll be vocal tracks saved from pre-performance which will help produce isolated vocals. I doubt there was ever truly a "live" video produced that wasn't already mixed and overproduced. Evidence for this would be to look up the Solsbury Hill video which has over a decades worth of performances edited and cut in, but I don't think it's an original studio audio production but instead some kind of re-recording.

[@seasideman]

@@koncorde Indeed. This all feels bad.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

@@travisash8180 As other comments tell us, Mr Gabriel has not really hidden this from view, so we shouldn't be annoyed with him.

[@celestearellano3720]

Most of these video's on analysis I dislike the vocalist, but Peter Gabriel is one of my all time favorites. Thanks for brining me some of his music,

[@Barbaste]

I saw him in mendoza '88, a religious experience.

[@chrisdavidson911]

things like with "be" bring wrong at 4:02 can happen due to editing multiple cameras together over 1 audio track, and them getting it wrong but leaving it.

[@kdkseven]

He's openly admitted on several concert 😂albums/films to "fixing" and "enhancing" some of the performances in these "live" sets. FYI this concert was first released on video cassette in the 80s.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

Hold on to your physical media. Even video cassettes from the 80s...

[@baerenonkel]

​@@geirmyrvagnes8718that probably already has the overdubs

[@Cortez77fr]

@@baerenonkel Some DVD release have clearly less "live" mood, like almost no crowd sounds or respirations. vhS are probably edited, but not at this point.

[@trzajec]

Hello, thanks for very diligent work you're doing. I have a strange request, you might say. For the past five years, I can't stop guessing, weather Sting is using samples for those high notes he used to sing in The Police songs and couple of his solo material. I attended a show in Ljubljana in 2019 and I couldn't get rid of the feeling, that majority of high notes weren't his performance that night. Two weeks before, he played and sang on some Italian radio station and his voice was in bad shape. I think he's been cheating (if I dare say that) with vocal samples. As a fan of his and being a musician myself, I would be quite thankful, if you dig into this observation. Thanks, Mike

[@mightyV444]

Speaking of Peter Gabriel, Fil: I'd be very interested in your opinion on his vocals in the live version of his song 'In Your Eyes' from the 'Secret World' tour! He's singing into a headset mic while again moving around quite a bit, but his voice sounds absolutely pristine and like on a studio recording, while the rest of the band definitely do sound live, including the backing vocals. Are _his_ pre-recorded, though?!

[@fromchomleystreet]

I think it’s fair to assume that any officially released “live” performance by Peter Gabriel will not have a live lead vocal on it. He routinely overdubs studio-recorded vocals on those performances. This doesn’t necessarily mean that he was miming to playback at the original performance, however.

[@mightyV444]

@fromchomleystreet - That's an interesting piece of information, thank you! 🙂

[@raygunsforronnie847]

The entire show, he's on 3 different mics - a Shure wireless, the head worn mic, and a wired Shure mic. The vocals sound very tonally consistent, as Fil pointed out. I'm certain that Gabriel will have his recording editors remove breath sounds, de-ess, compress, and change EQ, and then Gabriel will overdub or punch in replacement vocals if he doesn't like the way he sounds.

[@baerenonkel]

The strange thing is that he's good live. It’s perfectionism at work with the official releases.

[@podchauffe]

Peter Gabriel is notorious for his habit of “improving” his live vocals for his later releases. I must have read someone’s tongue-in-cheek remark (could be Brian Eno, but I’m not sure) about visiting Peter in his studio back in 1990s only to see him re-recording vocals for some of early Genesis concerts. Could be a joke, but then it is a very well grounded one.

[@baerenonkel]

He rerecorded vocals for the Archive 1 box (1973 and 1975 shows). Steve Hackett replaced some of his guitar and Tony Banks fixed at least one keyboard part.

[@podchauffe]

@@baerenonkelridiculous, ain’t it? (And this comes from the fan)

[@onthatdirtroad]

Thank you Fil!

[@atreb56]

Thanks for this analysis. ROCK 🤘🎸

[@SagansWar]

Fil, I would love to see you do a vocal analysis on Dolores O'Riorden, the singer for the Cranberries. I know there is one live performance of her singing flat on Dreams, but that is the exception. She was having a hard time hearing. But, in general, i always felt she was a great singer.

[@robertcosgrove7668]

Please tell me you’ll get ahold of the actual Athens performance because this audio is not it.

[@fromchomleystreet]

The problem is that unless you were there or someone in the crowd surreptitiously recorded it, you never WILL hear it. Gabriel routinely replaces all his live vocals with studio overdubs for his “live” releases.

[@pauldavies6037]

I think all productions as far as possible should be live because the tickets are so expensive we should not be conned !

[@haystackdmilith]

Gosh, I love Peter Gabriel's voice so much.

[@tangogrrl]

You gotta admit, the man can sing.

[@alanna8983]

Looks like a manufacturer music video like you'd see on MTV.

[@wethefamousfive]

Yeah ok, but this is very different. It's a "live film" sort of situation which was very common back then. The vocals would be taken from multiple recordings over several nights and all edited back together to look good. It's a very common technique and it is the same way as most documenteries are done, where shot does not always conform to the sound on that take. Its as old as filming itself and very different from deliberately trying the obscure some bad vocals. Context is everything.

[@DavidLazarus]

What's strange is that the Amnesty concert broadcast on FM and MTV does have live vocals. Search on 'Peter Gabriel 1986.06.15 Giants Stadium Amnesty'. It's pro-shot though not done as well as some.

[@daniellekiey-thomas1327]

I saw the So gig in Birmingham. I’m certain he was wearing a headset mike.

[@wayne7048]

Spot on,I went to the Growing Up and Back to Front concerts in Sheffield.There was definitely some augmentation going on.

[@tussk.]

Peter doesn't have full custody of his voice anymore. His record company owns it, and often lends it to that one guy from Walk Off The Earth on a monthly basis.

[@DavidLazarus]

The vocals appear to be live on this one too. It is also pro-shot. 'Peter Gabriel 1986.12.20 Japan Aid Relief' So, I guess it's just the one Peter officially released. That's a shame. I'm glad he used a headset during the Secret World tour.

[@AndyChannelle]

He always overdubs his vocals in 'live' videos. See also every version of In Your Eyes.

[@Sirmarphen]

This is from the Peter Gabriel website: "The concert was recorded over three nights at the Lycabettus theatre, by Kevin Killen, Effanel Music, Randy Ezratty, Mark Shane and John Harris and subsequently mixed by Kevin Killen and David Bottrill for the P.O.V. film, produced by Martin Scorsese and directed by Michael Chapman. In 2012, the audio was restored and mixed by Ben Findlay (alongside the concert film)." I think the amalgamation of three different nights plus future mixing and "restoration" have given the concert video some non-live moments.

[@johnbriggs3916]

Nice try, but none of the audio is from any of those nights -- and isn't "live" in any sense.

[@tttm99]

Truth is live albums are always dicey. You practically have to get a live bootleg to get something that captures what things actually sounded like. Still, I'm not sure why the tendency is to go with such heavy hands in remixing these days - it takes away from the very essence of what "live" means. I suppose it's a case of "well… if the software can do it..." motivated enhancement. But there's also the fact that singers aren't just miked once and live recordings are accumulated over years so... Temptation... "Oooh, this bit sounds better on this version" This is why I've never actually attempted to buy anniversary editions -- especially not of live performances. It's sad but you always suspect someone in a control room will have gone too far. I guess it depends on what you're after from the artist too as to how much any of this matters -- a certain sound or composition, a reproduced musical artifact, or to hear a level of musical skill as a player/ performer. With some it's a combination but I'll rarely listen to a classical performance for a particular player's nuance in one (non solo) part of an orchestra. And does anyone listen for the flubs? Probably not entirely. But with Gabriel I listen to live performance for their variation, and over production threatens that. Can't say I watch live dvds of concerts but I think people who do should be given the same opportunity - to listen to something that was recorded live.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

I wondered when you'd cover Gabriel. Compare the KZbin concert videos of him at Woodstock in 1994 with any of his own much-doctored video releases and the level of post-production becomes clear. I've long enjoyed those DVDs as semi-studio recordings, not as any reliable record of what was performed on the night.

[@bw92649]

Fil mentioned in the past, that promoters may use the term “performance” which doesn’t mean “singing” per se when advertising for a concert artist

[@WatchJoelTV]

Maybe because I am a musician, songwriter, music producer/engineer and former live audio engineer, I don't think there is a recording where I wouldn't know it is NOT a live performance, but I am glad you are calling out all these...whatever you wanna call them..."staff influencers?" posting these videos.....but I have to say, people don't seem to care if they are playing to a track. Good example; A good friend loves Pink Floyd and esp David Gilmore, and when I showed him your analysis video on Roger Waters, he said he would not be surprised if Gilmore was as well playing to a track, and will go see him when near by. SO...after further discussion, I think what all this amounts to is: People won't mind paying 250.00 a ticket knowing they are playing to a track, but when ticket prices are 1000.00...that's when they have to say to themselves...yeah, I'll just stay home and play the record. For me? There is no act I would pay 100.00 to see. I sat stage left at my monitor desk for 8 years and have seen and heard, and have been thanked by all the greats. Spoiled I am. But I'll keep that 100.00 bucks and spend it more wisely.

[@tttm99]

Dave Gilmour has published (here in KZbin) not only the odd flub but footage of a string breaking during a comfortably numb live solo… and his very obviously live recovery from that. I think any long term Floyd fan would expect more musicianship from Gilmour than Waters, as Waters was far more a lyricist/composer/"rock star". And then there's the screaming. Given songs like "Careful with That Axe, Eugene", many of us are surprised Waters can still sing at all. But I think someone going to a Waters concert is expecting a certain level of theatricality and arguably more a certain performance than a great display of musicianship. And then there's the possibility your friend didn't know or care either way - or not enough to miss seeing a musical hero as live as one is able. I think it really comes down to what fans expect from a show. I think it's expectation that's the key thing -- but sadly there's also an element of what music producers can get away with. I am with you on the cost for the most part and the to err on the side of saving money. People go crazy now spending money on concerts as "an experience". You have to be pretty sure you're going to think it's worth it!

[@wassupnomesayin]

​@@tttm99So to sum it up, Roger Waters is a a SELL-OUT and a FRAUD who rips off his fans by lip syncing at "live" shows. In contrast, David Gilmour is a man of integrity who is the opposite and not afraid to be human and make mistakes while actually playing live for his fans.

[@rlrudedog]

The last decade I have been learning many things not meaning the same in my gen years. I have to ask what people mean now using same words only somewhat a different meaning. Like a person wanting to borrow some change today means give them change, as they are not expecting to pay it back. Another can they use something is not meant to be given back.

[@challengerRT392]

This reminds me of when an Australian customer complained to Subway that their "foot long " subs were only eleven inches, the company replied that the term "foot long " was only a marketing slogan. That fooled nobody.

[@tod3msn]

Hi Fil! "Live" albums have been the subject of debate for decades. Some artists rerecord parts in the studio while other artists are "home grown" and do no studio over dubbing. It is only my opinion and I have no insider knowledge but I'd suspect that any artist that has additional work done in the studio on a concert live recording knows it is happening and is aware the live record is not totally live. The J Geils Band "Blow Your Face Out" did not use studio overdubs. Before they hit it big with "Freeze Frame" they were famous for their live show so overdubbing a live album would be sacrilegious!

[@harveyd_5-11under]

He does this for his live albums... redone vocals, and multiple evenings (even Stop Making Sense has some of that) It's a known thing. It's never bothered me, although I'm not one to watch or listen to the live releases too much.

[@raygunsforronnie847]

I was wondering when The Talking Heads would come up. Like Gabriel, Byrne is a perfectionist and there are differences both in content and mixing between SMS's movie sound and the released sound track recording. The vinyl and CD release had some parts replaced via punch in as well as time editing. I think the current release has been restored/remixed by Byrne so presumably it's as he wants his art represented, which may not be exactly the way it was 40 years ago.

[@truesoundchris]

As a collector and researcher/archivist of A-V recordings of musical performances, I have years ago started to allow multiple different recording/creation dates for audio and video elements of one and the same "performance" in my database, because I found the practices of pre-recording, lip-synching and overdubbing so overwhelmingly common, ever since "talking movies" were invented more than a century ago, that the straightforward concept of having a single recording date and location didn't work at all. Irrespective of musical genre BTW, opera singers have been lipsynching on TV in the 1950s no less frequently than teen idols in the 2020s. Among commercial productions (for cinema, TV, or sale as VHS/DVD/etc.) it is in all decades positively RARE to find a performance that was actually recorded in one continuous take (audio + video with no detectable "splices") in one location! So all this isn't new, except that the time-honoured fraud that went on for cinema and TV since the 1930s at least, recently is being extended to "live concerts", made possible not so much by any arcane ultra-modern digital technology but by the fact that there are fewer and fewer performances at which the audience even stands a chance to hear the actual sound of the voices and instruments, because any natural unamplified sound is drowned out by the PA system anyway, while the distance between audience and performers is often much too enormous for anything unamplified to come through, and also for closely watching mouth or finger movements to detect asynchronous miming. And once that is the case, what difference does it make whether the PA amplifies the sounds made on the stage, or blares something reasonably similar but pre-produced into the hall!

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

When opera stars like Lucia Popp and Christa Ludwig mimed for the cameras for West German TV, it was still a bespoke performance recorded just a few days earlier in an acoustic far more suitable than the TV studio. No one felt cheated, everyone knew that was how TV was done.

[@MelanieMaguire]

If you want to see real, raw musicians performing live, go and see a local band play a live gig at a pub, go to an open mic. It's a different experience. Big artists like this playing international concerts are the commogenized output of the entertainment industry. Going to these concerts is all about the atmosphere of the crowd, not the authenticity of the musicmaking - and for some people that's exactly what they want - to celebrate their love of the artist and the songs with large numbers of people who feel the same emotions as they do, beat for beat, measure for measure, all singing and dancing at the same time. It's a unifying, thrilling, euphoric experience. It's not for me, personally, but that's not to say that it doesn't give other people enormous pleasure. And that's valid.

[@benpowersguitar]

Great video Fil.

[@PhilWare1]

I'd long realised that this wasnt a "live" performance - pretty obvious really. Never understood why Peter was happy releasing it, especially as he CAN sing live. Weird.

[@johnman559]

@6.00 Ohhhhhh...that's a BAD miss 😬

[@allonewordcaps]

Thank you 😊

[@DaleBaker-e3u]

I love Peter Gabriel. Goes back to 1972, when at just 10 years old, i listened to Genesis Foxtrot, which I still love. Great video Fil, well pointed out.

[@dcallan812]

The first line of the song the mike would pick up all the noise around it like his cloths flapping etc. He was "alive" on stage but not singing

[@SurreyMan0409]

When I first saw this my problem was with the sound of the instruments - it’s not a ‘live’ sound, and there are sounds which aren’t produced by any of the instruments on stage. As Fil so rightly says, however good the stage set up, a live sound can’t be the same as the studio sound. But this version is!

[@PaulAndrew-fp2qg]

Hilarious he does admit to post production with his live recordings but that was so badly synced and obviously not live. It would come under live performance today for sure. I've always wondered if Michael Jackson mimed on that Billie Jean performance everyone focuses on the dazzling moves they take the voice for granted.

[@jonathanvince8173]

It does to me as I have this song the record version. I will explain Relax by Frankie goes to Hollywood I have two singles off they are numbered because both are different versions of the same song even has just the music on one side. I think there was like the song relax many version of the same song done differently. So they are using a version to play live over the live concert for some strange reason. I say this because back then if watched Queen live you hear the audience and Peter is reacting to the audience. But the song sounds like a studio version. MTV and American live gigs were done that way for some strange reason. You hear the difference to Americas live version in America of Band aid. To the British which has the sound of the audience.

[@mickpeters8002]

In comparison to some others (we know who I’m talking about) this is pretty minor. I just wonder why he feels he needs to do it. His actual live performances are still great (even in his 70s, I was blown away on the last tour, and, yes, he was really singing). If you want to hear him struggling, listen to some of the many Lamb bootlegs, after dozens of shows, minimal time off. Still, did anyone who was there care?

[@richardmaguire9536]

As I have more experience with making film than music (not a lot to be honest) for the film maker they are creating an image of what seeing PG live is as an entertainment not producing an evidential forensic recording of a concert. Of course the sound is edited and the best bits chosen as are all the shots carefully selected. It is not deception it is the introduction of theatricality which is the directors job and why the film is fun to watch, unless (of course) you are a music geek and are obsessed by how it was made. It's Holywood honey relax, nothing in the movies is real!

[@raygunsforronnie847]

This! "Keep repeating 'it's only a movie, it's only a movie.'" When the primary medium is visual, all source elements and aspects of the shoot are to serve the director and DP. They're telling the story of a band and performers telling stories.

[@brucemandelbaum2167]

Fil-I really appreciate your channel and your commentaries-That being said after watching a number of these about how performers are cheating I decided this would be my last one re: syncing and auto-tuning etc. Not because I do not care but at this point its that it's best to assume that everybody these days MAY BE CHEATING and to simply find out who DOESN'T before going to a concert. You are doing a great job with your analysis but the real question is "Given what is going on NOW WHAT? I am leery of going to ANY concert now regardless of who the performer is until I know in advance if they are REALLY performing, I went to the Fillmore East in the 60's 70's-saw Hendrix Who, Joplin, CSN, Derek & Dominoes, Zeppelin all for 5:50 center Orchestra when the ticket prices were PROPORTIONATE to your income and the performances were real -REALLY real!! The words "I can't afford to go " never came out of my mouth. I refuse to pay 250 and more to see anyone till I KNOW that it is what is as advertised. Thanks again for making me more aware of this-much appreciated but I'm done-just makes me yearn more for what will never be again!!

[@DaveSwart]

I feel like we holding a congressional investigation into whether or not Mike Tyson has tattoos.

[@solarvanlife8177]

No your Honor, they're birth marks.

[@DaveSwart]

@@solarvanlife8177markth?

[@speakgeekstudio1867]

Gabriel is one of my favorite artists, but unfortunately, he’s notorious for overdubbing live performances. In 1998 they finally released a live recording of “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway” from 1975. Gabriel went into the studio to record a bunch of new vocals! Now, he sounded great in 1998 (and still does) but he didn’t sound like he did in 1975, and you can tell when they’re using the new vocals. There is a new live version coming out later this year, and I’m curious if they will use the original vocals or the 1998 vocals.

[@FixNewsPlease]

Pau seems to combine movement and vocalization successfully. She should teach her training technique.

[@johnhoslett6732]

I call BS. For “live” to no longer mean you are hearing their actual voices is absolute nonsense! 😎

[@dkhandballfan]

PG live 1987 Denmark, 100% PLAY back, was like Listening to the CD note for note

[@fromchomleystreet]

I watched some of these videos years ago, and couldn’t quite believe anybody had the balls to describe it as “live” when the overdubbed vocals are so blatantly obvious.

[@johnnybodine9062]

Are bands and/or singers that are in residency performing weekly or monthly miming so to sound good every performance??

[@itaialter]

In live concerts, artists should be forced by law to disclose if there will be ANY pre-recorded tracks/vocals and be exposed to a class-action law suit if they are proven to not disclose the correct information. People are wasting their hard-earned money to see a puppet show.

[@raygunsforronnie847]

That's not the point of Fil's video today. Gabriel also used samples (recordings) of sounds he created in the studio, as there is no natural instrument that makes those sounds... so does that make use of samples (or a sampled horn section, for example) some kind of fraud?

[@scottmatznick3140]

Hey Fil, from Wings of Pegasus. How's life?

[@Zakkrifice]

These Trust Rock Concerts are insanely good!

[@Elaine_Parhamovich]

Less than 5 seconds in and I knew something was wonky. I know this song quite well and this is not a LIVE performance.

[@ashleycox432]

another fantastic video. Everybody who buys, supports or actively consumes music should be subscribed to this channel. Any thoughts on teh reissue of Queen's 'Rock Montreal' concert? I bought the vinyl and was thoroughly unimpressed not only by the remaster but by what I think is some very obvious pitch correction on freddie's vocal. I know it is to be expected given the god awful Queen I reissue, but having compared the original CD release to teh new remaster the difference is night and day.

[@ms_prescott_regrets]

Why would they even want to pitch correct Freddie Mercury? I think that’s an abomination

[@ashleycox432]

@@ms_prescott_regrets Abomination pretty much sums up the Queen I reissue. The pitch correction on that release has been widely covered, it is so badly done it's beyond belief that it ever made it to release,

[@SuziQ.]

@@ashleycox432, Yet Brian May loves that horrible re-mix. I don’t get it, and neither do the Queen enthusiasts on Steve Hoffman’s music forum. Most of them are disappointed with Queen I. I thought Fil did a video on the song with the ghastly AI images.

[@lolalile302]

Everybody who buys, supports or actively consumes music should be subscribed to this channel? No, thanks.

[@ashleycox432]

@@SuziQ. He did indeed.

[@wisdomhunter3797]

It’s at the point now that I’ll only believe it’s live if they’re sitting in front of me on acoustic guitars - sort of like unplugged…stripped down, honest and real.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Of the last dozen concerts I have attended, only one had speakers, and that was for a piece where the tape player was the performer of a sound collage arranged by a belovedly nutty local professor who taught some of my upper-level theory classes.

[@scalzmoney]

That Athens video is notorious. As someone else said here: Just read the comments. There are no horns on stage yet they are audible as if directly from the album. And you have to laugh watching the back-up singing which sound like soulful women but it's just Tony Levin and the other band members on headset mics. But rather than lip syncing or miming in Peter's case it just seems like they just re-recorded his vocal later after they'd edited the film. There are videos on here from this tour with real live vocals and it all sounds much different.

[@RichardDeLeonardis-d5i]

Is Mick Jagger the only singer that can move around and Sign at the same time?

[@rainerwaansinn]

Look and listen "The Police - Full Concert - 06/15/86 - Giants Stadium (OFFICIAL)" and imagine that was "pitch corrected" ... WHAT A SHAME THAT WOULD BE 😞

[@git606]

Peter’s mic technique isn’t the best. I’ve seen him loads of times and can say he’s amazing live but when he’s using a mic and performing he can be a challenge to record, can only imagine the the things they have to do in the studio to make it sound great on a record…lots of compression and fader riding

[@har234908234]

I'm convinced performers naturally *fall* into a place of comfort... much like this channel. Thinking about what this channel used to be (it once had Fil's playing - really) to what it is now, everyone falls into the trap of delivering for their audience. What's there to be appalled by?

[@leescottarmstrong9652]

Could you please run your eyes and ears over Disturbed "Sound of Silence" live on Conan O'brien show. To me it's 100% been played with my mates totally the other way.PLEASE settle this . Cheers 💚

[@cindi1313]

Fil analyzed that performance way back in November 2019. Check it out here, it's a great analysis.

[@taverlisk3304]

He already has, search his channel ;)

[@leescottarmstrong9652]

Thanks. I'll check it out 👍​@@taverlisk3304

[@PinkFloydKnew]

I saw the Strokes headlining Glasgow Green around 2000. 1st time I ever thought a band was either miming or playing along to their album. I felt cheated. Any way of checking?

[@blairmccoy6630]

Hi, Fil. Random request here. For a special treat, will you play us Pachelbel's Canon in D Major sometime? 😊