Winspace Hyper 23SE Rim-Brake Wheel Failure!!!

[@WinspaceBikes]

We deeply apologize for the issue with Luis's wheelset, and we're glad to hear he's okay. We also greatly appreciate Luis's honesty and transparency. During our discussions about having Luis review the product, we never requested a positive review, as we've always been confident in our products. It's clear that this failure points to a QC issue on our end. After investigation, it was found that the problem stemmed from the rim being too thin in the area mentioned in the video. Our QC process did not previously have detailed standards for internal rim width checking, but we've now implemented more refined guidelines and updated the QC department accordingly. We welcome and do not shy away from anyone pointing out flaws in our products, that's what helps us continuously improve.💪

[@adam1885282]

No recall?

[@brentcollins9727]

Your transparency is admirable.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thank you Brent🙏🏾

[@aluminati9918]

Glad you are safe! An experienced companion rider had his carbon rim brake wheel disintegrate when we descended at speed in the Dolomites last year. I rode directly behind him. Scary stuff, like the rim exploded. Could have hurt himself badly. Used to think this was only internet lore. As always, stay safe and keep the great vids coming!

[@kennethg9277]

Even top end carbon frames, forks and bars have plenty of failures documented on film. With that in mind I would never, ever trust my safety to carbon wheels, which take even more stresses.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@aluminati9918]

@@kennethg9277 I Share your views. That being said I have done 16 years riding China carbon wheels, rim and disc, now without any problems. So I think main thing is inspecting your gear regularly. Change in time. (My friend’s exploded wheel in the Dolomites I believe were $$$ Zipp by the way

[@n22pdf]

Glad you ok buddy.. It’s so good that your honest Luis a lot of KZbinrs would post this.. the gives your channel and reviews much more credibility than others.. Pete 🚴🏻👍💪

[@soapowejazz]

I know, lots of people have used carbon rim brakes wheels without issues. But to me, the idea of braking on carbon edge without any support has always looked too risky. If rim brakes on carbon, then tubular. In that case, the brake tracks are internally supported by the rim bed, making the whole thing much safer. And just to make sure...I love rim brakes. Just got a custom made steel frame with rim brakes and I love it. But I built myself aluminum wheels, for the reason above. Thanks for your transparency!

[@thegoodwheel]

Hope you enjoy that new build. Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@PatrickLino]

Be safe out there Luis!

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks Patrick 👍🏾

[@GM-ew5tz]

Glad you're okay. The Winspace C5 frame i bought over the summer has been a headache and their customer service was less than helpful with the number of issues that popped up.

[@lastpme]

It is a blessing you know a lot about bikes and how to maintain your fleet. Most people would had kept riding the bike until they got a critical failure.

[@harryrowland4734]

As a wheelbuilder, I have seen this problem many times and refused to sell full carbon clinchers because of this. Thankfully,disc brakes have removed this issue.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

My wheelbuilder refuses to build carbon rim brake wheels. Alloy only. He doesn’t want that on him.

[@reginaldscot165]

This looks to be a quality company/production issue and has nothing to do with the wheel being rim brake. A disc brake wheel could have the same flaw in its production and a disc wheel is under way more stress on the spokes and spoke holes and hubs.

[@harryrowland4734]

@@reginaldscot165 you can't possibly be sure it's a quality issue without actually seeing it. Hed famously refused to make full carbon clinchers, because of the damage caused by heat build up and I suspect that this is the issue with this wheel. Disc brake wheels don't suffer from this issue, delamination can be a result of impact or over flexing, on either disc brake or rim brake rims.

[@montrose252]

Long live rim brakes. Good luck resolving this. I am riding ELITE DRIVE 50V. They are awesome!

[@thegoodwheel]

Thank you. I also have a set of the Elite Drive mixed depth and they have been problem free. 👍🏾

[@philipcaldwell3187]

Well done Luis. Good factual description of the anomaly that gives other users the information needed for an informed decision.

[@adamolig3865]

I was worried about this exact type of issue with my rim brake bike, opted for a set of HED Jets with alloy rim and 46mm deep carbon fairing. Fairing gets the shape/profile, which is all that really matters to reduce aero drag, and the rim is metal for the braking heat rejection.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing

[@derekmattice3077]

aluminum is a good conductor for heat (transfers heat effectively), carbon behaves as an insualator for heat.

[@Michael-fi6ve]

You got some quick service. My friend had a big run around with them about a warranty replacement. They made him send them a video of him cutting up the wheel and it was like a 12 week process to get a new wheel.

[@robertcatuara5118]

Proof of destruction is common. 12 weeks is not. I had to send photos to Crankbros when they replaced my pedal.

[@thegoodwheel]

@Michael-fi6ve sorry to hear of your friends issues. That kind of stuff can be frustrating. Well, I don't have them yet, so let's see.

[@joeray5394]

When you have 24k subscribers you get better service or he can blow the company up online

[@Dali6266]

@@robertcatuara5118I had a similar experience with replacement pedals. I had to grind part of the pedal thread then provide photos evidence. It took approximately 2 week for replacement pedals to arrive.

[@luv23c]

If this is so, this is truly appalling to be told by a company to destruct by cutting. The carbon dust generated is bad. Mask or no mask the dust will be with you🤟

[@JonFairhurst]

You identified a key point. If you are riding carbon wheels with rim brakes and feel any pulsing, that’s a clue that the rim may have delaminated. Some time ago, I bought a nice, used rim bike and I made the mistake of “upgrading” to carbon rims. Performance in the rain was bad. (Hunt wheels with the pads that shipped with them.) More troubling was a descent down a very long, steep, grizzled road on a hot day. I weigh about 200 lbs and I realized that I had no idea how hot the rims were getting or where the failure point might be. It was thousands of feet over miles, and there was only so much “letting it roll” that I could do. I ended up giving the bike to my 150lb son, who is less likely to ride such steep rides. I’ll tell him to pay attention to any pulsing. I should have stuck with alloy wheels on that bike. I would have saved money too! Note that pros used to ride tubulars, which have more material at the brake track and no tire pressure there. And they are lightweight daredevils. They aren’t middle aged guys on clinchers. I think that if you want modern, wide tires and aero rims, discs are the way to go. (25mm was pushing it on my rim brake bike.) For flat, dry rides, carbon clinchers and rim brakes are fine, but I want a bike that doesn’t have those limits. But the best solution for riders that prefer old-school rim brakes is to go with old-school alloy rims and narrow (25 max) tires. It’s a classic package and look that can tackle anything that a disc bike can handle with good stopping power in all conditions and no safety concerns. Me? I like 28mm tubeless tires, aero wheels, all weather riding, big climbs and big descents, so I’m a disc guy all the way. Anyway, consider some Rolf or DT Swiss alloys for that bike. Use latex inner tubes and the performance will still be good with zero safety concerns. And stay safe my friend!

[@rosomak8244]

Wide tires are actually something archaic.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@allhill]

Glad nothing happen to you. I also have the Hyper 23 R45 which I love it, glad no problem after 8000km. can't wait you get the hyper 23 and review it!

[@thegoodwheel]

Thank you. Yes, I believe this was just a defective product and I am looking forward to getting back on them.

[@spdaltid]

Great stuff with some admirable honesty and happily you're safe! Thanks. Also , Winspace showing proactive customer support is on point. While I have personally - almost - transitioned to disc brakes, my remaining carbon rim braked wheels all feature a Mavic-type Exalith or similar. Just never had a loving relationship with carbon brake tracks.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for watching. The Exalith is a very good option.

[@dperreno]

A few years ago I would not have wanted to ride a bike with carbon wheels and rim brakes, but the technology has improved so much that I would consider it today. While it is concerning that you found this issue with your wheel, it's also reassuring that Winspace is stepping up and replacing your wheelset. Hopefully this is more of a one-off and not a problem that wil reoccur. Full transparency, all my bikes with carbon wheelsets have disc brakes now - I feel that they are superior and are worth the small weight penalty.

[@georgeszaslavsky]

Sorry to hear this happened to you. As I have said it before, I stick mostly to buy carbon wheels with aluminium rim brake tracks such as the Mavic Cosmic Carbon SCC or the Zipp 60 or Zipp 404 which are bullet proof wheels which are for my aluminium framed bikes. I also have several pairs of aluminium Mavic Cosmic Pro and Mavic Cosmic Expert wheels that are older than 19 years and still in perfect condition which are for my steel framed bikes. Other brands like Fulcrum or DT or Easton back in the days proposed carbon wheels awith aluminium brake tracks probably if you run 11 or 12 speeds would be to have hub changed. I only buy Mavic that were made in France prior to 2007 before they began to make the Cosmic Carbon SSC in Romania and changed the carbon texture of the wheel as for Zipp, I have a a very long time confidence in them since they are made in the USA, expensive yes maybe but still worth it.

[@newoldsteel]

Goodness glad you are safe! I love that they provided great customer service but still, carbon fiber, love to hate it but hate to love it 😬

[@thegoodwheel]

Yep, they are great until they are not 👍🏾

[@SpaceMonkeySalo]

My Elite front wheel has a pulsing to it too, I'd better inspect it asap. Thanks for highlighting this.

[@thedronescene7474]

Pulsing means the brake track is delaminated internally ( cant be seem ). Contact the manufacturer asap and get that replaced

[@SpaceMonkeySalo]

@@thedronescene7474 Not what I wanted to hear but thank you. 👍🏻

[@thedronescene7474]

@@SpaceMonkeySalo you are welcome!

[@thegoodwheel]

Please get that looked after.

[@Dustydayzz]

I remember watching a hyper wheel review on KZbin where the rim (disc) was also squishy, you could push it in with the thumb. I don’t remember who it was though😢. We appreciate your honesty.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@Dustydayzz]

@thegoodwheel by the way did you have a different impression of the ride quality after that discovery ? I imagined it might mentally influence your next ride.

[@TESTA-CC]

There is a few on eBay, the wheels delaminated on the braking surface. Could of been the epoxy used in the forming process of the wheel. If WinSpace are aware and will replace the wheels this is a good thing and hopefully people will get replacements in the future. Good work Lou 👍👍

[@thegoodwheel]

Yeah, let's see how it goes with them. Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@valiantabello]

Glad nothing happened to you.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thank you. I appreciate that

[@PolyglotBikepacker]

Same here, glad you are alright. Quality control is impossible in an inherently corrupt system like China

[@davidgarza2267]

Carbon was always less than ideal for rim brake applications. However, to fail after pretty nominal use is surely sign of manufacture error.

[@rosomak8244]

Carbon is generally a less than ideal material for a rim.

[@terrillford7784]

You a good man Luis

[@euovelha_]

I don't know if this is something that can be engineered for, and if that is possible, if that was the case. But I'm glad that the rim gave some signs before they failed just riding along.

[@thegoodwheel]

So am I. Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@Bill-qf7tn]

Thanks for your information

[@mariovr8416]

Most carbon clincher rim brake wheelset have this issue. It is as old as carbon clincher rims. Thus the pro's rode tubulars till going to discs.

[@madyogi6164]

Quality control failed on their side.Great it didn't collapse totally, while at speed. Since they offered a replacement and approached it professionally there's not much to worry.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@twintwitch1]

Carbon rims are the reason for disc brakes. For those of us on alloy rims who do not race in the rain caliper brakes are great.

[@FL-ym6hm]

Could you take a guess at how many miles you put on the wheels. Good to hear you weren’t hurt in any way.

[@thegoodwheel]

@FL-ym6hm tough to say because of my bike rotations. I would guess about 1500. But more significantly, I started noticing the slight pulsing about 4 or 5 rides in.

[@FL-ym6hm]

@@thegoodwheel so really a defect from the beginning. I have a set of ICAN FL40 with over 20,000 miles on them. I do love carbon fiber.

[@thegoodwheel]

@FL-ym6hm I believe so. Yes. Hopefully it will be sorted soon.

[@sterlingarcher46]

I never understood the whole carbon braking surface , it's always been utter nonsense to me . I think Shimano got it right when they opted for a metal braking surface .

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🏾

[@whichwayiszigzag]

“Sorry our carefully selected review sample wheels almost killed you, here’s another pair.” Glad you are safe. Eat one less bagel in the morning and ride quality aluminum rims. Problem solved.

[@elmccor6298]

Exact same thing happened with my hyper rim break front wheel; weird wave and uneven wearing along the break surface. Finally got winspace to replace it (they did for free). Now the rear axle body has completely left the chat/bearings are completely toast and I have to replace the body. Purchased new in August 2023. Not totally convinced I made a good purchase 🤷

[@thegoodwheel]

Wow. I am sorry to hear this. First, I am glad this didn't result in injury. I am glad it was replaced. Let's hope this is not a bigger manufacturing issue. And, thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@manuelf6010]

Hi Luis. Apart from the problem subject of this video, how do you rate the braking in general and especially with wet conditions...? Thanks from Italy.

[@billgreen3629]

My concern is what happens when they fail on someone who doesn’t have a KZbin channel?

[@gc641]

Hmmmm….ill stay with alloy wheel then,I almost bought a hunt wheel

[@daniellarson3068]

No glued on braking track to fret over. It just seems simpler.

[@handsfeellikegloves]

Interesting as I have been debating myself on whether to buy Hunt alloy or carbon wheelset. I was under the impression these types of issues had been sorted with newer products. Not sure if those 5 watts or whatever is worth it

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@techstryker]

Love my countries Bangladesh Like your activities...

[@bonbonflippers4298]

This is why i did not spend alot of cash on rim brake carbon wheels. I have cheap carbon rims and spent less than 1k on custom built aluminum wheelset thats practically bombproof for long term usage.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@brianbackes4974]

Classy. Thank you.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@angela-onesroman8873]

Am I slightly disappointed, no, Winspace has grown a pretty good reputation with their products over the years. I really haven't heard anything crazy to this extent about them, I own the 2023 LUN Hyper R45 with ceramic bearings for a couple of years now with zero issues. In fact I love them so much that I'm about ready to purchase a new set for my other bike.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the brand.

[@gearmonger8616]

Kudos on your honesty, as always. To manufaturers and customers - Amnesia Much?!!! This is exactly the same problem the pro peloton had with MANY rim brake carbon wheels. It is probably THE main factor that pushed disc brakes. The shapes of the wheels could be crafted without worrying about the brake track or using aluminum like many had done.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@anthonyharris483]

I'd be worried about the heat stress on that area with rim brakes over time. Eventually, it'll fail

[@jaec6986]

Realist comment, thank you

[@888julianman]

Luis - have you had a resolution yet? I bought the same wheelset back in June and asked winspace who have informed me that my wheels were from a later batch which would not have the same issue - so curious whether you have had your issue resolved?

[@thegoodwheel]

Hi there. Yes! They did send out another wheelset. I went through a very thorough visual check... video coming soon. So far they seem fine.

[@888julianman]

​@@thegoodwheel thanks for the reply! Fingers crossed mine are.from a good batch, as winspace.have.informed me. Look forward to seeing the video. !

[@mongoliansheepfarmer1097]

Things can and do go wrong with manufacturing. It's how the supplier sorts the issue out that's key to their reputation

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@mythical7thgear]

If I could afford it (which I can't) I'd try Brisk wheels carbon tubs

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@redfixfive]

still love rim brakes on all my bikes but I ONLY use carbon wheels that are tubular... the rest of the time high end ALU wheels which are actually lighter than carbon clinchers

[@petersouthernboy6327]

My wheelbuilder refuses to build carbon rim brake wheels. Alloy only. He doesn’t want that on him.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing. I do have two sets of tubular wheels and I ride them regularly.

[@rolandmg1]

I ride carbon tubular wheels on all my bikes and they have been 100% reliable, all the failures I’ve seen are on clinchers.

[@djdjoney]

I have a friend that just Blew up the other Rear wheel while he was riding.... Luckly he didn't fall.....

[@thegoodwheel]

I am sorry to hear that... but glad he is okay

[@kubackjeee]

Why u not riding elite wheels?

[@savagepro9060]

He is not 'elite'. He is recreational rider!🤣

[@DeveryAndrews]

Curious what brake pads you are using with these wheels. Did Winspace provide pads?

[@patrickparisienne1917]

@@DeveryAndrewsany of the reputable brand brake pads are fine, all the carbon rims using a high melting point resin, it is near 280deg C bulk temperature…

[@JordyJayHomer]

I've got some old Token C50s with aluminium braking surfaces, and they are bombproof. Sure, they weigh 2 tons, but it doesn't matter. I can't recommend them enogh

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@ΑΣΔΦΓΗΞΚΛ]

Dude. When you feel that pulsing, you STOP using the other brake. Then you disconnect the caliper on the worn wheel, and ride home. This applies to all rim brakes. Usually aluminium. If your carbon wore out in five minutes, that's your fault for buying carbon. Don't go near carbon on anything.

[@enricofaraco]

IMHO, carbon rim for clincher tire + rim brake is a big NO. In the other hand, carbon rims for rim brakes works great for tubulars tires, doesnt matter if you use glue or tubular tape.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

My wheelbuilder refuses to build carbon rim brake wheels. Alloy only. He doesn’t want that on him.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@benjaming.2218]

+1 for aluminum 😊

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@savagepro9060]

I thought it was serious like a Tour de France rider crash! You're safe, right? OK

[@thegoodwheel]

@@savagepro9060 yep. I am good.

[@savagepro9060]

@@thegoodwheel 👌

[@Omnis2]

Consumer Quality Control. 😓😓

[@thegoodwheel]

@@Omnis2 sometimes it comes to that.

[@bengt_axle]

I believe this is the reason why manufacturers created hookless carbon rims. Without the hook, the rim side can be solid, thicker and have consistent thickness. When combined with UST (more precise tire bead manufacturing), the thinking was that this would be safer and more durable in the event that the tire went flat. The problem with this system, as we have seen that when it is tubeless, the tire can get bumped off the rim and cause a rapid pressure loss, which unseats the tire. Personally I choose Campy aluminium rims (with tubes) for rim brake which are of the same weight but do not have this risk of de-lamination or having production faults like this.

[@christosandreev6392]

Hookless is even dangerous than this faulty wheels.

[@yazidyusop]

Time for winspace offer disc brake frame wheelset....

[@patrickparisienne1917]

They sell them!

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Carbon clinchers with rim brakes? Really? And you're gonna try 'em again? Really? Hope there's no future video from your hospital bed when they fail again. What's the definition of doing the same thing over and over but hoping for different results?

[@timwhitburn6260]

Have you heard of disc brakes?

[@stibra101]

Tubulars are much safer for carbon wheels

[@doindumbstuff4119]

That’s untrue. Tubulars can suffer from exactly the same symptoms here. Construction isn’t too dissimilar despite carbon fibre wheels coming a long way in terms of layup etc since. The core braking surface is the same and can delaminate in exactly the same circumstances.

[@stibra101]

@@doindumbstuff4119 There is no pressure on the sidewall of the rim so there is nothing to deform

[@thegoodwheel]

I do agree 👍🏾

[@JohnRadford-iy7db]

Carbon no good for rims no good alloy better but they all wear out. You need cork brake blocks for Carbon rims

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@simseven4967]

Carbon is like a plastic,soon or later will snap…

[@MrGarycoww]

Rim brakes are an out of date design this proves that,especially carbon clinchers on longe descents.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🏾

[@mazditzo]

You looks like seasoned cyclist yet you didn't learn about how dangerous carbon wheel for rim brake, forgot the KZbinr who had the same problem years ago

[@unklesannjay]

Winspace bunch of clowns