Wired Predator High Speed Range Test

[@robertprestigiacomo4657]

Thank you. That’s how you do a bike test. Nobody wants to see pas 1 -4. I knew you weren’t scared of it.

[@Daniel-h8l3v]

Citizen isn't fooling anyone.He is just your basic speed/power madman.❤🎉😊

[@sgtchitt1]

damn bryan your getting good at handling that monster :)

[@sammyjames1929]

Much better segment 👏 Fun to beat on them😁 Nice job handling the suprise mud thought you where going down happy you made it! Now, I wanna see Steven riding the Predator😁

[@CitizenCycle925]

@sammyjames1929 yes the mud surprised me, we got a little bit sideways but wrestled it through 😂

[@anthonysuarez7416]

Great performance review!

[@TheRougeRiverRider]

That bike moves holy cow!

[@CitizenCycle925]

@@TheRougeRiverRider oh yes, it's a beast!

[@TheRougeRiverRider]

@@CitizenCycle925 quick question the rst forks you sell on your site are they quick release? I'm having a hard time finding a beefy fork that's not a 9mm quick release.

[@CitizenCycle925]

@TheRougeRiverRider my RST guide Forks have an open dropout. They are not a thru axle. They can be used with a quick release skewer or my front motor can slide in.

[@EuroYank]

Thanks for more WIRED fun! I've owned 4 ebikes during the past 10 years and everyone of them had different symptoms when they were running out of battery; one would just quit, one that would reduce power, one that cut in and out, etc. All of them recovered a little bit after a few minute's rest, but never enough to go more than another 1/4 mile. Based on the above, I usually turn around when I get below 20%. This seems to be near the bottom line on both my 48v and 52v bikes. Given that it's not good to drain your battery completely, any general feedback on when to "head for home" would be good to know.

[@Truth_Spoken]

Yep, glad I bought the Freedom instead of the Predator. The front motor is dumb with all of the wheel spin.

[@DanWipper]

The Predator gains quite a bit of acceleration and a little top end. It might get on through soft sand or mud better but you also give up a lot. When the Predator came with two batteries the extra 1300 ,(650 for the battery and a 650 motor), was worth it but now the Freedom also comes with two and the difference is 1500, for just a motor, one that's a bit too big. You give up cash almost enough for two Freedom bikes, add weight, reduce range and by the looks of it handling. Maybe you can outrun the dog better but its a lot to give up. Last thought is, if you want all wheel drive buy a 750watt front motor kit, it'll likely be better for the job and you'll be able to control it separately giving the front just as much as it can use without going spin happy.

[@Whoadayson]

@@DanWipper Forgive me if Im misread or misunderstand, but it sounds like your saying the Predator came out before the Freedom/Cruiser got the 2nd battery. Is that right? I thought the Predator came after but I havent followed it closely? I agree though, Id be happy with the Freedom, plus Im not a fan of the dual crown fork. If Im beasting down a frickin mountain side on a proper DH eMTB, then sure, but these dual crown forks on all the road ebikes are a shell of what a Fox 38 can do.

[@DanWipper]

Curious how long did it take to charge both batteries after you ran them all the way down?

[@Daniel-h8l3v]

Like that dude in the Mirror.❤🎉😊

[@Daniel-h8l3v]

I miss my peaky 2 stroke dirt bikes.This brings back very Fond Memories.❤🎉😊

[@DanWipper]

When it comes to batteries Lithium have a very flat discharge voltage then they die fast, cutting off just before that. Compared to other types of batteries you get almost full power until they die.

[@Whoadayson]

Is the front motor programmable separate from the rear? Example' 100% to rear, but only 50% to front, to avoid that wheel spin that is asinine imo

[@toddzydiak9910]

Just curious how it would fare where I live. There is nothing but Big,Steep,Longggg,hills. That's just the pavement alone. No matter which direction you go.

[@cosmodave69]

Just Fine

[@CitizenCycle925]

Its definitely got plenty of hill climb power, traction is the key though.

[@CHRISTSALVATION]

I wish I can buy another battery. The main battery is $825.00+tax and the rear battery, you cannot buy. Might as well buy a Freedom bike and use the batteries from that bike as a spare. Wanted to do group rides with it and not have range anxiety. Hopefully they might have a discount soon.

[@brett7740]

I have a rear battery for sale if you're interested. Never used

[@TunaSoda]

Yeah I looked into them to, $800+ for another battery yikes, I wish they just made a larger one that was the capacity of both that fit center frame

[@Frank71]

Discount....nope. Expect a tariff soon. Buy that battery 🔋 now.

[@CHRISTSALVATION]

Also, I don't get the miles like Citizencycle gets. I'm 6ft and 270lbs. I'm a stocky guy. I get a little over 20 miles running it hard.

[@jcolt84]

I have a current generation wired freedom and I'm seriously considering whether I should sell the back battery and the rack that it fits into, or trade it for someone's front battery. Let me know if you're interested.

[@IMBruceECLECTIC]

Power

[@shootthechit]

Bicycle

[@spikelove9533]

My biggest problem is the direct drive motors last 5x longer for 1/4 more the price. So I'm not a fan of the gear driven motors. Adding a thin layer of metal to the out side of a now 98% nylon gear is not going to add any significant longevity. I'm not knocking the bike as a whole its a nice bike. But I do think there are better bikes out there value wise if a person buys direct drive over geared.

[@Beltfedshooters]

What are some better options out there?

[@nicholasglade4572]

I have a Keteles K800 pro dual motor 23 ah 2000 watt dual suspension bike. Dual motor is the way to go. If you have never tried a dual motor don't say it is dumb. Goes close to 35 mph and is a beast. I paid $1200. I do not think this bike is worth triple the price. If it goes down to about $2,900 I think I would be tempted. It is a great bike.

[@ginger_with_a_top_hat]

So I have a 35 miles commute. I would probably going WOT the whole time with the exception of a couple of stoplights. I know I could get further with the pedal assist, but do you think it can get there all on the batteries? I live in Florida so it's flat.

[@markarmstrong9551]

Thanks for another great video. I have an off-topic question. Do you know of any hitch type bike racks that can support the weight of these heavier bikes?

[@CitizenCycle925]

@@markarmstrong9551 Cravot CyberRack hold 200lbs

[@marcthaywood9647]

Great stuff

[@karoslif9818]

Does the triple crown make a difference on the infamous Wired Wobble?

[@773Chicago]

Wobbles should be gone due to the weight added to the front wheel hub. All bike with two motors don’t necessarily have wobbles. Only bikes with too much rear weight and not enough strength in the frame will wobble.

[@markborao6144]

Great video !

[@rayrussell6258]

The range information is a useful comparison to know. However, this ebike is getting up into the area where tire safety is going to become a more important issue. What speed rating does Kenda have on their tires? How many miles will those tires last using the wheel spin that much. etc etc. My experience with lawn tractor tires is they are super thin, and puncture easily. I've not had the tires off my Aventon yet, so I have no reference of an ebike tire for comparison, but I'd guess they are thin treaded too. The tire might handle 40 mph+ for a while, but a sudden blow out is equally possible. Buyers of this ebike need to be aware of the extra hazardous risks they are assuming.

[@ForbinColossus]

100% agree. When we go motorcycle speeds we need a bike built better than a cheap chinese welded bicycle frame

[@rayrussell6258]

@@ForbinColossus I think the frame is engineered for it, but I'm not so confident in bicycle tires, unless they are specifically rated for higher speeds.

[@CitizenCycle925]

agree with you 100% I have been questioning tires for a while and i have not really seen any speed ratings on any of these chinese tires. I do have a request into my manufacturer contact to see if he can locate tires that are worthy of 50mph speed. I hope to offer these on my site if i can find any.

[@disneydude55]

​@CitizenCycle925 Do you have a better recommendation yet than the Kenda Krusades that come with the Wired Freedoms? Thanks for all your reviews and info you share.

[@SirWrecksy]

@@disneydude55 try HEB Allscape tires...problem solved

[@Ebikepowerlevel5]

Great video as always . Is there a big difference in that for over the rst guide fork that came on the other model can you tell a difference? Also you kit is still holding up on 60v no problems i would love to see you do a 1000 w motor on the front or 1200w

[@CitizenCycle925]

I am considering making a 60v 1500w front hub kit for wired bikes. we'll see, it requires changing pretty much every piece of the kit.

[@Ebikepowerlevel5]

@CitizenCycle925 let me know i be your first customer i wonder why just add a 1500 motor to the existing kit a 50 amp controller would be nice

[@jcolt84]

On my current generation wired freedom, the rear battery is unusable, because it just bounces around and makes me afraid that it's going to fall off the bike.

[@Silverado2021]

what was the motor temperatures after running it hot for a long time

[@CitizenCycle925]

I never got it much over 200degrees. I had it in dual motor mode most of the time so the stress was split between motors.

[@DanielLopes-jt8yl]

Juiced went out of business now the chase is on for parts‼️ Velowave baby👍 Hyper Scorpion is a keeper for sure. Should it become a icon and I think it will. Tora made some beautiful bikes, very interesting designs. Changed ho the industry made bikes over all. Bikes are what they have become because of Juiced bikes. I watched it all change and the haters kill the company.

[@raylivengood8040]

When are you going to start testing those electric hover crafts ? Ha ha. Would be pretty cool actually 🔌

[@CitizenCycle925]

Maybe if they offer me one... :)

[@grampa653]

Hi, I am trying to order the bike now but the discount is not working from your link. Is there a new link?

[@CitizenCycle925]

@grampa653 clear your browser history then try again

[@VMH721]

That's amazing riding, Wohooo

[@Zomby_Woof]

It's a 1500W rear and a 1000W front geared motor. How much actual power is delivered is of course, a factor of the controller. Wired hasn't really broken any new ground here. What they have done is put higher output controllers on it and dual batteries to provide more amperage. I was going to do the same on my prebuilt dual motor bike with Fardriver controllers - until it was stolen. So I put one of the controllers on my cheesy homebrew and did 43mph - before I t-boned a car that made a turn across the bike lane in front of me. Gearless motor. That was 4800W peak with 60v @ 80 amps The front motor is mostly a gimmick. That's not to say it has no value, but in the conditions most people ride, it doesn't really add much. On a steep hill climb, it has almost no effect due to the weight transfer. How are you measuring motor temp - where is the probe? To be valid it needs to be monitoring the temp of the stator, which is where the heat buildup will be - the rotor will still be relatively cool even in an overheat condition. Were you really riding continuous? Seems like a lot of stopping and starting - which masks voltage sag. I'd me more interested in in a continuous high speed test. Ideally, the figure I would like to know on any ebike is at what speed can you ride continuously until battery cutoff. Having owned a single gearless motor and a dual geared motor bike, I have to say I find the single gearless to be a better design. With a good quality gearless motor, you can pump pretty much as much power through it as you want, and because of that, and the superior heat shedding, it can climb hills just as well as a geared motor, and is more efficient at sustained high speed. I would call reliability a wash - I did have one motor cut out on me, and was able to continue on the remaining motor, but the second motor does add several additional points of failure.

[@moodyfox3108]

On a steep hill climb a front motor has no effect ? I could not disagree more.

[@Zomby_Woof]

@moodyfox3108 It does not have much effect. All the weight is transferred to the rear wheel, which is where you need the additional power. Front motors are worth considering in two cases: 1> You have a rear geared motor, and you can't apply more wattage without overheat, and more power would be useful. 2> You ride in bad/slippery conditions, at least some of which is on level ground and you want additional traction. Adding a front motor is a trivial task to perform, but it adds expense, complexity, and more failure points. The added weight means you now require more power than with a single motor - all the time - not just for those situations where you need more power occasionally. If you do go dual motor as an upgrade, you should be upgrading your controller as well, to a dual channel controller. This allows use of one throttle - two throttles is just a dumb approach that people use because they are cheap or don't know any better. With dual channel using a controller like VESC, the operation of the two motors is intelligently controlled, with loss of traction detected based on differential in rotational speed of each wheel, and the power is then biased accordingly, giving you the advantage of a limited slip system. That's what will give you an actual performance upgrade for both hill climb and slippery conditions. My postion is that if you're buying a front wheel kit and don't go dual channel controller, you're just pissing money away.

[@AmsaluSewnet]

ዋጋ?

[@AllenFunk-po7eq]

Awesome

[@Scrunchychingo]

I am a complete bike noob. I mean I know exactly “Jack” and “Squat” about them. Can you get 5 miles out of 100% power only(meaning no pedaling ) out of a charge at top speed? Hope I worded that right.

[@mirjackulous_1559]

yes, he pretty much showed you here that you can get atleast 30 miles going top speed the whole time, so yeah you can easily do 5

[@Altema22]

Complete opposite of how some manufacturers do it, with 90 pound guy pedaling at 10mph in PAS 1 with a tailwind 😂😂. Good job on Wired for keeping the power up so long, BUT, bringing in power management earlier would extend the range and be less likely to leave you stranded. I believe the rear motor is a Bafang G062, and those can handle the heat pretty well. The only time I was genuinely concerned about the one on my RadMini was when I was riding with a Surron and a modified Ego Minibike with 10,000 watts, and they kept it up near 40mph for mile after mile. Turned out it didn't overheat, and I was very happy. By the way, although those motors can handle 3,200 watts each, they can't go beyond that because of the gauge of the original phase wires. If you upgrade those, it will handle about 4,100 watts, but it's a major job. Thanks for the video, and I'm glad you didn't go hope covered in too much mud!

[@CitizenCycle925]

That surprise mud almost took me out HAHA. The rear motor in the predator is the same Hentach 1500w that is in the freedom and cruiser. the front motor is a 1000w EW motor.

[@Campfussell]

We gotta see what Pappa Citizen says about this bad boy!

[@CitizenCycle925]

@Campfussell I'm hoping he gets a chance to ride it this week!

[@Campfussell]

@@CitizenCycle925 Awesome, hope ya'll have a Merry Christmas while yer at it!

[@henri-fillipbauer6579]

I’m mostly interested in its strength and 2 weel drive for riding trails in winter not intending too ride it at 44 miles per hour.😂

[@jamesjohnson1522]

You don't want a front motor if you are riding in snow or anything wet. You will continually spin out, even with studded tires. I tried it. I stick with my Himiway Cruiser on studded tires for my winter set up. My dual motor was uncontrollable in winter conditions.

[@mrgreen2769]

I wouldn't buy the Predator because I go for distance riding. Also I go by cost of spare batteries of off brands which that can be purchased and matches the battery rack and power requirements. I bought a Qlife Racer 1000 watt because it looks like a well built mountain bike and if I run out of juice I can easily manually pedal. The heavier the bike, the more resistance you will have in the event your power runs out. The best milage you will ever get on an ebike motor wise is 350 watt up to 750 watt. When you start getting into larger motors the milage can vary and become less, that is unless you can afford ebikes in the $10,000 range. Most of us look for budget ebikes that don't require expensive maintenance. However if you are just looking for a fast ebike for fun and not worried about range, the Wired Predator or types like that if you don't mind spending a bit are fun. I personally don't recommend dual motor ebikes.

[@f1dog]

This is way better than the Graffiti x on range and acceleration...and price. Ok, not top speed, but everything else wins.

[@AllenFunk-po7eq]

Wish my Aventon went that fast

[@TheTcat1000]

You always said how fast your citizen bike was cause you were over volting the motors. Why don’t you take your green cruiser tie into the back battery over volt your front motor and race the two bikes I think you’ll find out they’re extremely close to each other.

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

The George Kittle of the e-bike KZbin world.

[@CitizenCycle925]

@@user-ch4ex3yy4l I had to look up who that was but okay I guess I see it a little bit

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

@@CitizenCycle925 You have to see him talk. Best tight end in football.

[@JohnBabcock-qy1cs]

If the bike doesn't go 45 mph, it's about useless as far as I'm concerned. 45 to 50 mph is the new minimum goal for times you must drive with traffic and no bike lanes. In busy city streets during rush hour you need 45 mph to be safe in traffic most places. At least for a few minutes. No country roads and no bike lanes. No hills. 45 mph average speed is best. I just say all this because i have an E -Bike that does 25 mph and a Chinese 250 for times I want to go out and need 50 mph. Almost the same price for my Hawk 250 at $2,000 And a Honda XR150L at under $4,000 out the door.

[@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357]

my dual motor keteles k800 with a 48v 23ah battery is dead if i ride at 30mph with both motors on in just 16 miles. lol.

[@CitizenCycle925]

sounds about right, 48v 23ah is not much capacity for a dual motor ebike..

[@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357]

@ yeah I am looking at adding a second 23ah pack onto the rear rack on the bike. It’s a big battery but not when I’m trying to pull 50 amps out of it.

[@jcolt84]

Would anyone like to by my rear battery and rack from my current generation wired freedom? Or I'm willing to trade my rear battery and the rack for a front battery that is compatible with my bike. I hardly ever use it, so I would be surprised if it had more than six or seven full charges on the rear battery.

[@timlabell]

Why,???? So you can look . 💯🎅

[@powchainsamaniego6744]

It's should be going 50phm with 60volt battery and dual motor

[@BleezyD]

I get freaked out going 25mph on my ebike. you're going 40+ is ridic!!

[@soupnazi81]

I think you need to try an Electric Unicycle. What could go wrong 🤣

[@CitizenCycle925]

i've been offered the self balancing onewheel things but not my cup of tea! :)

[@soupnazi81]

@CitizenCycle925 haha. Its an acquired taste. I don't skateboard, surf, sky, snowboard and never thought I would ride an electric unicycle. Took me 1 week to learn and its rewarding. But damn hard. Lol. You should try "for science". O think one wheel is less stable than an electric unicycle though

[@jasras5003]

@@CitizenCycle925 Not your cup of tea until you try one and get decent at it. Then it's everyone's cup of tea.

[@tentman4fun]

Nothing about that bike is legal on the roads wish mine had two batteries on it wired bike is worth the money

[@bellyacres7846]

limited traction ;)