The Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns Review | The Story and Lore [SPOILERS]

[@TheKennoarkkan]

Canach was my fav throughout the story, just because he was an absolute bro. He was literally the only NPC to res me if I went down throughtout every single instance.

[@aid4nski215]

YEA EXACTLY. RYTLOCK AND MARJORY ARE JUST ATTACKING CANACH HELPED ME SO MUCH IN THE MORDREMOTH BOSS FIGHT

[@IchBinUnschuldig22]

Oh Anet, hire him allready

[@mramcharan1]

In a way, they have already

[@straikychan]

+Horus LEET I think even if they did try to hire him, he would not accept it, because as much as he'd love to influence the story, he'd also miss out on experiencing the story, which i'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to :P

[@mramcharan1]

I believe ANet is WPs youtube sponser, and so the way he gets money. I may be wrong.

[@raykoone]

+Matthew Ramcharan WP literally demolished ANet for the story, you don't do that with your sponsors...

[@Goku227]

+finalfan321 really? if thats true im now mad at +WoodenPotatoes

[@lexan2002]

this is a very in depth video, thank you. I love that your paying so much attention to the story. I remember hearing a line about how mordremoths minions were similar to zaitans minions somewhere and it made me think back to when we saw the vision about zhaitan dying and the magic being absorbed by mordy, and also when scarlet released the key line in LA and how mordy's minions all have let energy flowing out of them. so there is something referencing the other elder dragons and how magic doesn't really go away just moves around. I felt that the pacing of the story was a lot like launch. things happen very quickly and there is a lot of "wait, what just happened" in instances but also between maps. that feeling stems into the "well what should I do in the open world before I go to my next step?. the open world stuff and the in between sections were awesome. I loved talking to npc's in the open world and following tracks and seeing things happen around me. I'm also with you that it was really short and even though I took the time to do VB before heading into tangled depths and trying to do story missions in parallel with the story, I still felt like there wasn't a ton of content in the story. mind you it was really cool to get to a map and explore before getting to the next story step was cool, but sometimes it felt a bit scattered. I'm actually bummed that I still havnt done dragons stand yet and did the final story missions. the one right before the end, with chasing faoilain put me in the end instance in the spiral chamber so I thought it was next, and I didn't feel like the meta was needed to do the story and I wish I had done it first. get to do that awesome event and then feel like going into mordy's mind was a hard faught win rather than just doing it cuz its next. now that's my fault but I still wish I had that first time through. all in all I am very happy with the story and the quality they did, I'm excited because what if mordremoths didn't fully die and actually is corrupting the egg? could be cool.

[@YourprogrammingnetworkCoUk]

A handful of questions to provide food for thought. - How do we know that Modremoth is dead? - How do we know that the "weakness" found by the Rata Novans was his mind? - How do we know that the final fight wasn't a trap? Fingers crossed that we are all being tricked and HOT v2.0 drops on us as a suprise with Raids and modremoth is still alive (possibly taking a giant munch our of rata sum) and then Rytlock takes us on a journey back into the mists to meet Glint/Rata Novans to find out what the actual weakness is? Queue Epic story telling during raids...

[@KingdomEllipsis]

+YourProgrammingNetwork That would be SO epic if THIS was the trap and Anet dropped the wool over our eyes / totally surprised us with "HAHAHA TROLOLOL HE'S NOT DEAD AND IS WORSE THAN EVER."

[@jonophant]

+YourProgrammingNetwork and caithe backstabs us we have to stay optimistic

[@KingdomEllipsis]

jonophant Speaking of Caithe, I thought that was so weird that Caithe was like "meh whatever Faolain is dead" in the story. Weren't they lovers? What the heck man. So glossed over the entirety of her character, for serious. If anything would make me fall victim to mind games, it'd be the death of someone I honestly super cared about? It'd make you emotionally unstable, for serious, and vulnerable/an easy target? So perhaps Mordremoth did take her over, and she's just pretending to not be a Mordrem Sylvari. What else even explains her total apathy towards Faolain? After all... Mordremoth "unmakes" the individuality of a person. "There is no Faolain. There is no Trahearne. There is only... MORDREMOTH!"

[@Gaarikx]

+KingdomEllipsis yeah!!! and the next story mission we wake up in a clonning pode

[@TheLKStar]

+YourProgrammingNetwork Yes, this would be amazing, not going to happen though. It's Anet we are talking about.

[@Nimtolien712]

I think it would've been really cool if Sylvari in places like the Grove, Caledon Forest, even LA had turned to Mordremoth creating chaos not only in the jungle amongst the Pact, but in general throughout Tyria. Would've opened up so many interesting stories.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Nimtolien Lairion Totally! As I said, I wonder why they didn't use any other locations like they would in living world. Worried people would complain it's not what they paid for?

[@Nimtolien712]

WoodenPotatoes Perhaps. I worry that the reason is just simply it would've been too much work for a small pay-off. Or maybe the reason is because they didn't want the HoT story to affect people who don't buy HoT but that makes very little sense to me.

[@TheGismono]

+Nimtolien Lairion I would have tought that they might be saving the world chaos for the living stroy, but with and end too the personal story like that, I dont know anymore

[@CLB872]

I agree wholeheartedly, it feels though like Anet just wanted to keep the story relegated to the Jungle though. I think the idea was to emphasise the urgency, you can't go home that easily right away. (Honestly its where the Waypoint system feel's a bit tacked on, you lose a lot more of danger if they could have just say waypointed back to base. the story seemed to want to give the idea of that forward push, no turning back, no away to change plans and regroup. Which I feel was a bit of a lost opportunity to really show l strife between the Sylvari and the other races, the panic, etc.

[@milosmalley2492]

+Nimtolien Lairion I guess it's rather a matter of scope of the story in general. There's as far as I know no actual timeline for the HoT story but I'd guess that after we enter the jungle it's only a couple of days until we actually face Mordremoth in its mind. There was simply no time for Mordremoth for handling the remaining pact soldiers, preventing the egg from reaching Tarir, fighting Tarir after the egg has been placed there, stopping the PC from actually taking the fight to his doorstep and to do something like say attack Rata Sum which would have been the obvious first target. After all it was only a couple of moments before the fleet was destroyed that he became fully awake. I don't think we would have had any chance of actually beating Modremoth if he wouldn't have been distracted by all that little things. After all he was the jungle.

[@SmilingPolitly]

I'm so sad that Trahearne died, and that it ended abruptly with the allies not even mentioning him afterwards =\ but brilliant storyline! Good review, well done! ^_^

[@WoodenPotatoes]

Thank you very much!

[@Strufalitox]

I felt so bad finishing off Traeharne , i could feel his death coming which was sad enough, but killing him myself made me feel pretty down. I always liked him as a character, pretty relatable and far away from the typical stereotype of the "cool" fearless hero: he felt real, with his insecurities, awkwardness but still trying his best. Also of all NPCs he is probably the one i spent the most time with , i mean he was with us at the battle of Claw island... I never got why he was so unpopular

[@0Yukarin]

Regarding Zojja and Logan, the one you don't save first spawns a bunch of clones you fight and then when you break them out some party member says "They're unconscious" like Anet is being really clear that they aren't dead. I suspect in living Story 3 there will be some throwaway line to who you didn't save first like "I'm glad you're okay" or something and that will be it.

[@samworkman818]

Poor Rox. Even WP forgets about her involvement, or lack of, in the story.

[@cheezball3327]

we spend a decent amount of time following the signs she leaves us to find the portal to Dragon's Stand

[@alexistoran2181]

Talking about Scarlet? When I go back to the Pale Tree, she's still unconscious due to the attack on the World Summit, which makes a lot more sense. I guess Arachnia didn't do Living Story S2? The way I see it, Mordremoth's 'weakness' didn't really have anything to do with the spheres of influence Magister Makkay mentioned, it was just a decision to attack his mind because his body was too large to kill. I think having uncorrupted 'minions' of Mordremoth (especially Trahearne since he managed to keep his identity even after becoming physically part of Mordremoth - which I personally think makes him appear a lot more badass than he seemed in the Personal Story) was what opened him up to this attack - perhaps Glint could have done something similar against Kralkatorrik, unless Mordremoth's mental connection to his minions really is stronger than other dragons'. I'm really not sure how to view the spheres of influence as described by the Scroll of the Five True Gods. Mordremoth and mind is one thing, but for that matter when was it established that Zhaitan ruled over shadow? With the convenience and neatness of each dragon having exactly two (ill-defined) spheres, it actually sounds to me more like some sort of categorisation imposed by the Scroll's writers than an actual natural law of Tyria. I also have an idea that since the Elder Dragons' power is starting to seem like an eternal constant which can be absorbed when the dragon dies, much like what we saw with Abaddon and Kormir, maybe the Elder Dragons come from very different backgrounds. Maybe Zhaitan was in fact just an unintelligent beast which managed to absorb a lot of raw power, and delegated the few strategic decisions he was seen to make to his champions, whereas Mordremoth really was a lot more intelligent and sinister. Just a little fan-theory to explain the differences, not something I'm really expecting to see touched on in the game.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Alexis Toran I think you make some really good points here, actually! Would have been nice if we didn't have to *speculate* on such things, though :/

[@choryllis6646]

+CalenDaBom This is amazing.

[@Saavykaas]

+WoodenPotatoes It's par for the course for all of Guild Wars. Most difficult questions about the details are not answered, and Guild Wars isn't alone in the troublingly common pattern of keeping things frustratingly mysterious.

[@draconicfeline6177]

Zhaitan as a drive behind more intelligent minions is absolutely terrifying. He is death, a cosmic force, while mordy is a chess player with an entire jungle as his pieces.

[@asgarzigel]

"Surely we could use our plants to defeat his plants" - well, technically, we only were able to defeat him because of Trahearnne, so...

[@Vallun]

in factions gw1 the assassin and ritualist were a large part of the lore, nightfall paragons and dervish were a big part of the culture as well. In Gw2 HoT Revenants come into existence seemingly for no reason other than that the mists already exist and for no reason that is now immediately relevant.

[@Minandreas213]

The entire story of Guild Wars 2 (never played the first) has given me a very simple impression. Creative high school writer. They've got some solid and interesting ideas with a good deal of potential, but completely lack the experience and skills to connect the dots. Every character, event, and line of dialogue can have lines drawn directly from it to one of those ideas, making everything feel completely contrived. edited to add that I agree with you completely WP. Great video giving in depth on point feedback. I hope ANet checks it out and takes the feedback on board. For their own sake.

[@Piorn]

About the "mind" thing with Mordremoth, I feel like there is really cool potential behind it. Like, picture this, every elder dragon has a physical body with wings and head and stuff, except Mordremoth. He's just the software for the plants. So you can't defeat him by chopping plants, because he's alive as long as one plant in the jungle exists, but instead ONLY by destroying the Operating System. It's really poorly communicated by Anet, but I THINK that was their thought process.

[@TheIronDrapery]

This video is longer than the HoT story

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+The Iron Curtain I was shocked, actually, at how many key story moments and missions I could fit in to the footage!

[@MikePhantom]

+WoodenPotatoes uhm WP check the omphalos chamber again, the avatr should be unconcious there and not have the scarlet dialog at all.

[@DeaXi69]

If you pick Canach and Caithe as a sylvari before entering the final confrontation in the dream Rytlock says something along the lines of "Wait so all who enter are sylvari? Does anyone else see a problem with that?" might be incorrect since i'm citing it by heart, but that comment from him was awesome :D

[@caesarsalad-xu4vy]

Old comment, but yes, even if you are a sylvari and you pick Canach to go with you, Rytlock also says "wait so two out of three are sylvari?" I love playing HoT on a sylvari.

[@WordsOfTheTeacher]

1. Mordy's weakness is his strength - that's a classic literary device, and it's also logical that Zhaitain's weakness/strength was corruption and we starved then poisoned him in non optional missions.2. Mordy planting himself in Trahearne - This isn't a cheap way to kill Trahearne (well maybe it is, but it's also more), but rather a huge reveal that ANY dragon can do that. This will compel us to check each dragon is dead in the future, and opens up a Zhaitan return and get better story. This could also mean it was a double trap twist super plan thingie that he planted himself in Trehearne, then got you to kill him so the pact would finally go away and he moved his seed to you, which also means if the pact DOESN'T dissolve, he still has you at the command.

[@PurpScurpington]

Press F to pay respects

[@robertzorn6063]

Best. Comment. Ever.

[@Blaufrosch]

agreed

[@Poki3]

+Purp Scurpington Yeah. When I saw that prompt I wasn't sure if that was a bad, tone def attempt at a joke during a moment that did not have any place for jokes, or if they were actually thinking it was a deep thing to put in and everyone who ever played that part was under a rock when the Internet was laughing at that scene last year. I still don't know which one it is.

[@danielmoir790]

+Poki#3 the first two times i ran that step i came out in stitches, one from the 'press F to honour eir' and the other from one of my jagged horrors (lich form) dying; causing my character to non-nonchalantly comment 'oops, there goes another one' as braham screams 'MOTHER'

[@PugnaXable]

+Purp Scurpington F

[@TheMarc1k1]

they should of had Caithe's new Wild Hunt from Modremoth, without her knowing it and believing it was from the Pale Tree - it would help explain all of her actions and make the mistrust purposeful this entire time.

[@draconicfeline6177]

Wasn't it implied that Mordy was manipulating the wild hunts through the dream's connection to him?

[@AuroraPeachy]

Great analysis, WP. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+AuroraPeachy Aha, thanks peachy! Hope I didn't spoil anything early for you like you were worried!

[@AuroraPeachy]

+WoodenPotatoes No, you didn't! You did good ;)

[@frankie5821]

PEACHYYYYY hehe.

[@bdor2490]

While I agree the ending was far from perfect, there are a few details you missed that I think make it better. Thing the First: Trahearne letting you inside Mordremoth's mindscape wasn't something they pulled *completely* out of their ass. They already established him as something as a hivemind, not quite a physical being like the other Elder Dragons. Trahearne was partially corrupted by that point; he was directly connected to Mordremoth, but Mordremoth had yet to dominate and corrupt him. Theoretically, using him as a "gateway" isn't entirely unprecedented, especially since the sylvari are so heavily connected to the Dream anyway. Thing the Second: Mordremoth finding new life in Trahearne has been set up before (albeit very stealthily) with both Glint and Tequatl. From Tequatl, we learned that champions get a massive power boost when their master dies. From Glint, we learned that champions can usurp their masters' former position. Trahearne was already corrupted and well beyond saving at that point. Put all of these together... Thing the Third: There *was* a trap. Faolain was the trap. She led you on an exhausting wild goose chase right to the spot where Mordremoth was at his strongest, then turned around to fight you herself. Corrupted Faolain was already established to be extremely powerful, to the point that you couldn't even fight her during the first encounter. Arenanet absolutely failed to convey this properly (especially in terms of bossfight mechanics--she was a disappointingly easy kill), but it's still a damn clever trap if you stop to think about it. Thing the Fourth: Mordremoth's weakness is actually somewhat intuitive. He corrupts things by dominating them through the Dream, like he did with Scarlet. By weakening him in the Dream, we ensured that he couldn't dominate shit. Because he can't exert his influence through a physical body, this meant no more Mordremoth. Arenanet still did a bad job with the ending, but it wasn't because of deus ex machina. It was because they did a bad job of communicating *any of this* to us. Like you said, they could have used Rata Novus to set half of this up, but instead they went for the "vague weakness" direction instead. It wasn't a very smart move.

[@TheJoukai]

I don't know how you can be so sure that the lines about it being a trap set by Mordremoth are hollow. Even up to the point where Mordremoth is practically shouting "Kill me, Kill me" while inside Trahearne seemed incorrect and out of character for Mordremoth. Think about it; why the hell would Mordremoth have Faolain lead Destiny's Edge 2.0 to Trehearne and then take Trehearne directly to his Heart so they could exploit his weakness. Every bone in my body screams that Mordremoth led the group there on purpose, not just the lines about it being a trap, but the entire way the situation is painted. The group followed a prison train the entire way there; you mean Mordremoth didn't notice they were being followed to his weakness? If Mordremoth is indeed dead, there would have to be some ulterior motive for Mordremoth to basically beg to be killed. However, I do believe Mordremoth is still alive... at most he's just sleeping again. Side tangent; I actually hope Zhaitan is still alive as well, then we could have this epic clash of Mordremoth and Zhaitan fighting for magic from each other. Also; the mouth of Mordremoth is Mordremoth himself. It has the same silhouette at the hallucination in the dream; and the same voice actor. Here's an interesting theory; what if the "Get the Egg" wyld hunt that Caithe had was implanted by Mordremoth himself to get the egg... where was Caithe going with the egg anyway? Seemed like she was going straight into the jaws of Mordremoth to me.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Michael Riley I must have missed it, at what point is he begging to be killed?

[@copecope7278]

+WoodenPotatoes I think he's talking about when he stupidly takes over Traherne's body/mind/dialog prior to the PC killing him.

[@TheJoukai]

WoodenPotatoes Right before you strike Trahearne down; Mordremoth takes over his body and taunts you in the most out of character and dumb way.

[@copecope7278]

+Michael Riley It is dumb. I think it was kind of a stupid way to let all the whiny players who hated Traherne for "stealing the glory" AND make it concrete that you've indeed, killed Mordremoth. Two birds with one stone, type of deal.

[@KulonSobisk]

+Michael Riley I love your theory. It's very interesting to read and I didn't think about it that way. The only thing that I find incorrect (that no one can prove true or false) is that the Mouth of Mordremoth is Mordremoth himself. Mordremoth was everything and it clearly states that. Besides if you killed Mouth of Mordy before the last mission and you believe that it was mordremoth himself...wouldn't he be dead already before you go into the last mission? Personally I believe that Mordremoth in the dream is the representation that Mordy himself invisioned he was. ANet stated that Mordremoth wouldn't be your typical looking "dragon" and they were right..He very well could've stepped into the dream himself as he is...which is a small..fat..plant dragon

[@wesleysmith2989]

One of the things that I also noticed was how much faster the voice acting was. With the side by side dialogue, I felt like I could read their line 5 times before they finished saying it. It was like each.... word.... they.... said.... was.... so..... slow. Now with the new story the talking generally feels substantially faster, and that alone has done a ton to improve the immersion for me.

[@wafflingmean4477]

so... rytlock is channeling glint. communicating with her. never addressed... WHEN WE HAVE HER EGG IN A BACKPACK!

[@choryllis6646]

I also saved Logan over Zojja my first time around because my human guardian was the first character I really got invested into and I developed an attachment of sorts to Logan, despite him running off. and my human was also the first character I played through the HoT story with as well. What was going through my head at the time was how Logan is most likely going to be the one to ensure that Jennah has an heir so the ministry won't be able to take over. I don't know why she hasn't kicked into high gear and tried to get one already, but the devs have their reasons. Then I realized something... What would be really cool to see, and possibly what will happen in the future, is Jennah will die without an heir, Caudecus will take over, and then we can count the majority of humans out for fighting against the dragons. Tensions between Humans and Charr will rise and we get groups like the separatists/renegades except they fight FOR a continuing alliance rather than against one. Then, perhaps Kralkatorrik or Primordus, will fly over DR and kill thousands and completely destroy the city. Something similar to what happened in the Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. Everyone is displaced and none of the other races will take them in because they aren't trustworthy anymore. Except for the Sylvari, who are still trying to regain some of the trust that was lost during HoT. They take in the humans with somewhat open arms because they have nowhere else to go. Then maybe some hints at interspecies relationships???? I mean, it was slightly hinted towards Rox and Braham but that's kinda dropped, and they already implemented a Trans-Gender NPC in Lion's Arch... So sorry for the long post. I rambled and got caught up in a bunch of ideas. I need to write this down somewhere else...

[@akio192]

The greatest sin by anet regarding the story is not telling us what happened to Garm, I hope Garm is alive and well :c

[@LesterRamos]

+shangaiify It may be possible that Garm might return to the fold with Brahm as his new master.

[@riftborn1058]

+Lester Ramos and then brahm becomes a dragonhunter or druid as he has eirs bow

[@Tirco]

at 29:05 you say you tell Traherne that "The pact is all but gone" and you interpret this as the pact being destroyed. It actually means the opposite. "All but" does in this case mean "everything except". So instead of telling Traherne that the pact is destroyed, you are actually saying the pact still lives on. (The term All but can have several meanings, but i believe this is the one that makes more sense, as you are trying to give Traherne a sense of hope). Sorry mate, the way I interpret it (when it was voiced by a male asura atleast) we will be seeing more of the pact in the story! ^^ Also, it is possible that there are several commanders in the pact, and that you take on two different commander roles. One for the story, where you are the super awesome pact commander, and one in dragons stand where you are more of a regular commander, that we see a lot of in PVE events etc. (It's called a commander tag for a reason! ^^)

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+TircoGameplay Interesting! I hadn't considered that!

[@silvercat18]

As a sylvari, the one thing I wanted to do was to return Caladbolg to the pale tree and I did make that journey in game, seeing as I was given the shattered sword as an actual item. Even leaving it by her unconscious form would have been something symbolic, even if she was to remain sick. Her reaching out and taking hold of it would have been a very meaningful cutscene, showing her loss.

[@highgroundobi-wan1490]

You can actually do that, make the broken caladobog quest

[@pounder2068]

I know this was supposed to be about the story mainly... but I feel that he should have included at least as a side note, a comment about the rly good atmospheric music throughout the game and the world, IMO the sound is really important in making the experience and I think they did a very good job with the music as a whole.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Pounder206 True! The music really adds to things.

[@EmilyChill22]

Did anyone else notice that the dragon energy at the end of the final cutscene spreads in 3 (4?) different directions? One stream goes to the egg obviously but where are the other 2 (3?) going?

[@TheSirjull891]

+Lord Parraddoxx My thought was that maybe it was being absorbed by the other elder dragons and the last energy line goes tot he egg? The immense amount of energy has to go somewhere right? Or maybe it just gets dissipated throughout the ley liens??

[@EmilyChill22]

+TheSirjull891 I thought that too but there are four elder dragons left, and it only split into at most four one of which was consumed by the egg, leaving at most three lines and four dragons left.

[@TheSirjull891]

Yea I thought about that. The only way I think it would work would be that one dragon( bubbles) is too far away so the other dragons basically took it. idk... I just dont wanna wait so long to find out!

[@kurohonhon]

I assumed that Trahearne, somehow connected to Mordremoth, took us into his mind - a huge dream-like dimension - in which his power to take control over sylvari was at its strongest. The strange thing for me was that such characters as Braham were able to go there... Btw. It's sad that we don't see another Shadow of the Dragon throughout the whole expansion even though Mordremoth can clone and "reconstruct" his minions

[@Byhythloh]

Eire's death was actually abit of a shock. Especially playing a Norn, I did not expect it at all. I even /cry 'd over her body for at least 5 mins.

[@ThisAlbino]

I haven't seen anybody mention the vision you get from Glint's egg. It's the absolute best cutscene in the entire game, and I want to see more of that level from now on.

[@razzah1454]

Didn't Snaff go into Kralkatorriks mind to paralyze him? So Kralkatorriks weakness is his mind too? I feel like there is no thought put into this. Anyway, I was so sad that we had to kill Trahearne with that sad excuse of a reason. He was my bro man, always at my side, never really doing something without consulting me. Letting me do whatever I want for 2 years even tough I had real responsibilities towards the pact. He was the only real friend through the whole GW2 story, next to your dead mentor. And Caithe... She would have been the perfect candidate for a Sylvari firstborn going Mordrem. Just think about it, you are in front of an elder dragon, next to you is a traitor and minion of that elder Dragon, so why would you even think of taking her inside the Dream?! To ensure victory without any surprises, like with the egg, we should have tied her to a tree or something, or executed her on point. This is about life or death for all living beings in Tyria. No excuses, too much is at stake here. It either should have been canon that she goes inside or no choice at all. I would have loved if it was canon, her being corrupted and becoming a champion of Mordremoth, would be a great conclusion for a shady character like her, also being the opposite of Trahearne, who is pretty straight forward, honest and noble. and yeah, Zojja should die, she is pretty much the most useless character from DE1.0 She has no real character progression through the whole GW2 story in contrast to Logan who had a lot going on even before our own personal story.

[@missphoo]

+Raz Wish I could thumbs up this comment as much as I agree with it.

[@draconicfeline6177]

Or, you could flip it - the noble treahearne goes mordrem, the ultimate corruption... and the shady Caithe has to step up and be his opposition...

[@7BitBrian]

@WoodenPotatoes If I am not mistaken the water orb is located in Dragon Stand, in a piece of wreckage at the beginning of the map, and a Pact member tells you it doesn't look like much but it is all that is keeping the defenses going. Doesn't count for much at all really, but yea, it looks like its there, sort of.

[@Neon1928]

In my opinion the story felt like it was me and my small group of B Tier chucklefucks just skipping through the jungle straight up to the big cheese himself and killing him. No real challenge at all. Also, i believe Eirs death was done poorly. Why would she stop and basically kill herself when she knows help is only a few seconds away? Not to mention how multiple people in our group have the ability to prevent her death from occurring. Rytlock can teleport, Barbie can create portals at range, Rox is apparently an expert archer. Ultimately i found it hard to take this story seriously with so many illogical events and decisions being made.

[@Rune_Scholar]

Who the hell is Barbie? I don't remember that character.

[@baronwalker2212]

But they needed her to die so they could explain the dragon hunter and Druid specialisations.......oh wait nvm

[@starkamitheater721]

+Saoirse O'Dwyer (栗原美雪) I think they meant Kasmeer.

[@Bokatisha1234]

+Baron Walker Honestly they wanted Braham to have man pain despite everyone liking Eir more.

[@baronwalker2212]

+Bokatisha1234 yeah I know, I don't have to like it tho :p it wouldent have been so bad if they had explained the Druid and dragon hunter specs tho, it would have been a better story arc than the whole rata no us thing.

[@strivingstruggle3797]

I'm super glad you made this video. Said pretty much everything I felt. Though I don't mind too much that they didn't give Marjory or Kasmeer much dialogue, I wasn't focused too much on them. When I was doing the story and first stepped into Dragonstand I had no idea Mordremoth's mouth even existed and I just went immediately into the story. I would of liked it better if I had gotten a message or something saying hey do this giant meta event before doing the final story steps. Would of felt like a more epic fight defeating this giant outside extremity of Mordremoth then going into this mind and defeating him. I would of liked his final 'mind' form to be a giant plant brain we'd have to attack the brain stem to cut off nutrients to kill him but oh well.

[@SilvasRuin]

You got several details wrong. Faolain finds Caithe, not the other way around. Caithe only stats pursuing Faolain when you take over responsibilities of the egg and Caithe knows what's happened to Faolain and wants to end the monstrosity she's become. Most of the Asura of Rata Novus were not killed by chak. They evacuated, and most of the dead would have been from the city's partial physical collapse. There's something very scary and sinister in how the city fell, but this wasn't mentioned in the story. (The chak sabotaged the city's defenses in a way that strongly implies intelligence and intent.) The distrust plot angle was NOT pushed aside. Non-Sylvari characters at least still mistrusted Caithe a lot even right up until the final instance and only reluctantly had her weapons returned. Your description of "pushed aside" is extremely misleading and implies a flaw in the story that did not actually exist. I didn't really notice on my initial play of it, but Rytlock's return has strangely poor lipsynching. "Strangely" because the rest of the story seems to do pretty well with it. Why did you bring up characters interrupting themselves and one line not having a voice after saying you wouldn't be including bugs? Braham's line at the very least is something I would expect to get fixed, and I thought I saw something about a missing line in at least one of the changelogs already. It might have not been that line, but your presented reasoning for why you wouldn't go over bugs is still valid. So why did you go back on it? Rata Novus felt like a setup for Primordus. But that weakness thing is one of my two biggest complaints with the story. Thing is, we already saw a weakness of Mordremoth's, divine fire. The only mention we get of THAT obvious weakness was a mention that there's probably not any divine fire left on one of the tablets recording the farewell speech of the Forgotten. Except for the final cutscene further convincing me that Caladbolg was infused with divine fire, and we wind up using it to finish off the very last portion of Mordremoth's consciousness (Trahearne) without ever having its significance mentioned, and then its lost. The blade is broken and the divine fire it held is spent, meaning we have no more of it to deal with any lingering minions or to perhaps try wielding it against the other dragons. If I'm right about Caladbolg, it means divine fire was, without us knowing, involved in the cleansing of Orr, suggesting that, had we not just run out of it, it could have been a very valuable weapon against ANY of the dragons. It might also suggest that we have just lost our means of curing dragon influence. But while the visuals of the personal story, of Arah path 3, and the end cutscene of HoT suggest these things, none of it is ever said. What annoys me so much here is that we wielded divine fire as a weakness against the Shadow of the Dragon directly and yet for some reason our characters don't immediately associate THAT as Mordremoth's weakness. Moredremoth wasn't so much a dragon of Mind as he was a dragon of hivemind. It does make sense that this gave us a backdoor to him, I can accept that part, but the whole "sphere" thing seems like nonsensical gibberish. I do agree that I don't really get how Trahearne actually provided us with that entrance into the hivemind. Mordremoth slipping a kernel of himself into Trahearne makes perfect sense to me, especially if we assume Mordremoth did that before we even arrived and Trahearne just avoided mentioning that until we took care of everything else. Trahearne was meant to be his insurance, his phylactery. Unfortunately for him, Trahearne realized this and cared enough about Tyria to warn us once we no longer needed him. The problem with Marjory and Kasmeer, that they worthless in HoT, is because they were originally created only for living world season 2, created by the most shoddy writer ArenaNet has, and are only made up of what this writer considered to be cool. It's mind-boggling to me that you consider either one of them to be "edgy and cool" because both of them by design are nothing more than two-dimensional stereotypes. The story for Heart of Thorns seems like it was conceived even before they were. It's not Canach that was shoehorned in. He fits in exceptionally well, and Living World season 2 does plenty to establish why he's there. No, it's Marjory and Kasmeer that were shoehorned in. I think the use of Faolain and how it scorched (and cauterized) Caithe's already frayed emotions worked extremely well. It's a shame they didn't do more with the Nightmare Court, but I think that's an entirely separate issue and is something they could have done right without altering Faolain's involvement in the story in the slightest. She's not the problem. One major complaint I have with the story is the insulting moment Taimi leaves the central stage. Her reasoning is bogus. She IS a child, she is an asura, she is a cripple, and she just lost her bodyguard. She is as vulnerable as any character could possibly be besides perhaps a quaggan child, you do NOTHING to prevent the chak from coming back after you leave, and yet she guilt trips you into trusting her to stay there alone. Emotion and forced "equality" trumps reason and logic here, and I think this is the most stupid moment to come out of the story yet. I wouldn't trust Braham there alone either! I would only trust Rytlock because he's a war veteran (a high ranking member of the Blood Legion of all things), his combat prowess easily the highest of the group, he's extremely imposing, and his mist abilities give him a method of escape even if he gets overwhelmed. So WHY would I trust Taimi to stay there alone utterly defenseless for the time it takes her to build another Scruffy? She can't even flee! The best she could do is crawl into a hole the chak are hopefully too big to even reach into.

[@odrez]

That sound quality difference to the new videos is astonishing. I never took issue with your sound quality, but to hear the difference? Unbelievable. I feel like I watched this video yesterday, but a lot has changed since then.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

Wait, in which direction? You prefer the new or the old?

[@odrez]

Haha sorry, from my perspective your content is always improving in quality, no matter if one video might be better than another, so I forgot to make an actual clear statement - I like the quality of your recent videos much more. The old recording is much thinner, despite your voice being the same. The sound of your voice now has much more depth to it, especially the lower frequencies. On this video, I need to turn up the volume to be able to understand you, while I can easily follow you on the new videos even when turning down the volume. It's crystal clear, maybe missing a tiny bit of the high frequencies. If I put on my overear headphones, on the old videos it feels like you're on the other side of the room, while on the new videos it feels like your voice is in my head. Combined with the voice being embedded better in the audio, I really prefer your new videos in that aspect. As an example for the high frequencies - the salvage all video is better in that aspect and I can understand you even better, whereas I would say that a bit lower than that would be perfect. Hope that clears things up a bit. :)

[@aginjai]

haha yeah I was wondering what was going on with the sound quality on this as opposed to the previous video in the playlist but I continued to watch regardless. It was about half way through when I noticed that some of what was being said made no sense in context with April 2017 GW2 info. It was then that I clicked it off full screen to realise the video was actually published on 8 Nov 2015. Only then did it dawn on me I had seen this all ready. The sound quality of WP's videos these days is so much better.

[@dzanikken]

Imagine you're an employee of Anet and you're watching this right now.

[@LeiosLabs]

When they released Guild Wars 2, it seemed like their motto was "when it's ready." The player-base was incredibly willing to wait until then. Why couldn't they have kept the same motto here? If they had released it 6 months later, not only would we have gotten a story of a respectable length, but it could then immediately tie into the living story. At this point, most players who might have come in for HoT will be gone before the story expands, and that's a bit of a shame.

[@baronwalker2212]

Tbh we collectively as players pushed them into it, they never originally planned to make an expac anyway

[@baronwalker2212]

+RoseSolane I agree, I was totally dissapointed in the story from an expac point of view, IMO the stuff we got could/should have been living world season 3 and 4 not an expac, yes you could say that the bulk of the expac was other systems being put in place or w/e but tbh an expac should be a propper campaign and anything on top is a bonus.

[@V3rthiss]

I feel like A LOT of the story was simply cut out between acts 3 & 4. It really feels like we were supposed to find out about dragon's weakness, find more allies, push through dragon's stand and THEN fight Mordremoth. ANet just didn't have time to do that, so they took what they had ready for act 4, add a little bit of something here and there so it makes a little bit of sense, and then connect the loose ends. I would feel MUCH better if they just ended story of HoT in Rata Novus, take their time and deliver the rest of the story when it was ready. Shame on them they didn't do that.

[@BlaquePauldron]

Some things that just bother the hell out of me is now that Eir Stegalkin is "dead" will she come back as a Druid? Will Braham become a Dragon Hunter? What bothers me most about Eir's death is now we have the unresolved story from Ascalonian Catacombs; where is Magdaer!? the last thing troubling me is now that Trehearne is "dead" and the pact is in shambles what happens to Orr? I know Orr isn't necessarily a focus for Anet right now but holy crap are we EVER going to see a restored Orr?

[@sacritwice]

What about Rox? You forgot to mention her...

[@charli.ward.]

So did arenanet lmao

[@TheSirjull891]

+sacritwice I'm pretty sure that she had like 2 lines. lol

[@PixelPumpkin]

Correct. Rox and Frostbite are some of my favourite members. I would also like to know what happened to Garm. Somebody surely would have at least mentioned him in some way. Dead? Run off? Corrupted? Imprisoned? ...? Press F to remember Garm?

[@AurisdeLaasTor]

For PixelPumpkin : Garm come back wounded at Eir home during the ceremony of remembrance of Eir, (I cried again for hours..) which begins the Living Story 3 .. But, of course, Garm can't tell us what happened to him ..

[@kcraft1994]

This came at just the right time! Just finished the HoT story last night and was so happy to see such a long video! These are great every once in a while.

[@IcyPhil]

Waited for it for so long, now watichiiiiiing everythiiin'! :D

[@MikePhantom]

+Philipp Pichler which is dumb since he never spoiled anything before

[@Lumpusax]

I feel like when they first started writing ther Story for heart of thorns they did not want mordremoth to be killed but his weakness found out but later some higher told them they needed to kill Mordremoth so the end was just crammed in there.

[@TriptychGaming]

I didnt mind the cliffhanger, but I was dissapointed when I went around the world looking for updated dialog and didnt find any. It was a little bit depressing to see how little was covered though. 3 years into GW2 I was hoping we would have at least gone into Elona or the Crystal Desert by now.

[@GuardianDoomsdays]

I personally enjoyed playing the story the first time thought. But when me and my friends played it the second time we found so many problems or miss opportunity it kind of broke my heart. I can only hope they pull all the threads back together in living story.

[@RaquielT]

All I'll say is that as an Asura... my character felt too dumb and out of character during the Rata Novus arc. :(

[@creativedesignation7880]

I found Rata Novus a bit of a disappointment either way. It was one of the few places I thought to myself that I wanted to go there, not because it was a part of the story and would help me progress, but because I wanted to see that ancient Asura city. When I got there it was a lot of old tech that told me nothing and while they had the Chak well integrated in the story, it kind of felt like they were there to keep me busy, so I wouldn't notice there was basically nothing there...

[@lukebytes5366]

While this is 6 years ago and a lot has happened both in and out of this story, I still want to share some of my thoughts. For one, I don't think the game should force you to play the open world much at all, let alone very specific meta's. Not only because that comes with a while can of worms gameplay wise since you need to happen to be on the right day to even progress, but because that's just not what open world is designed for. The point of one in the context of a main questline is to give players things to experience along the way that aren't required but might be fun to do, while also reflecting the actual story and more in a very natural way. Verdant brink for example does this best. Not only is the landscape full of ruined debree of fallen allies immediately setting the tone, the meta event is entirely focused around on just surviving, gathering what little allies and resources you can before you are hunted by the mordrem. That should be interesting enough on its own that many people would immediately do it while on their quest, and anyone who doesn't want to shouldn't be forced to do so just so they can see every little detail. Games shouldn't be afraid of not giving players something they don't want, this is the same reasoning I have with the sylvari having special dialogue and scenes. That being said, the worldbuilding should've been better executed. The tone set by verdant brink is entirely neutered once you leave and it never feels like your in that kind of danger again. Tarir is basically a safe haven, and the rest feels more like a relatively fine pact just becoming more powerful. This isn't bad on its own, if anything it's a natural progression. My issue is that none of the dangers at the start really carried over to other maps. The sylvari potentially betraying? Basically gone. The feeling of being hunted? Gone after tarir. The unsettling sight of the dead and abandoned only returns in rata novus. this is probably because they wanted to make every map different from eachother, but honestly they went too far and it leaves the tone pretty disjointed. Also yeah the writing could've been polished better. Being called commander in VB makes logical sense since nothing says you aren't there but dragons stand could've used a different surname, even if it's something as basic as soldier. Also, I feel they could've connected the world and quest better by showcasing what's happening in the world while instanced more. Like while chasing faolon you see people fighting the mordrem commanders and taking over the towers and such. Could've helped make both feel more related and have more logical sense as to what's actually happening. As for the story itself, this is how is would've written the late game, ignoring the rest since that'd take too long; Of course, they find the dragons weakness in rata novus, or at least a hint to it. however a major change I would make to novus itself that would relatively fix the many logical problems with it; just make it an inquest base instead. Since inquest are relatively secretive, it makes sense that most of the asura wouldn't know about this even if it was right behind them and some sense why it isn't just mentioned by the inquest themselves. On top of that, it can tie up some loose ends with them and the sylvari that were previously tied up with pure racism. They found out mordremoths weakness was his mind, but what is his mind? This isn't really explained well as is but it's likely mordremoths mind is the dream itself that sylvari attuned to. This explains why traherne is magically able to transport you to the dragons mind. The inquest suspect this but don't know for sure, there isn't confirmation that sylvari and the Dragon are related with their current database. This explains why they experimented on them in the personal story but was still ok with scarlet being a "consultant". Skip to killing mordremoth and it feels less like a deusex machina and more like a genuine build up. Also something I would add to the level before mordremoth is that it's one giant maze. You constantly need to find yourself in the endless unknown, finding many things the sylvari experienced along the way. From their birth, to their love and loyalty, to their hatred, etc. This is a great setup to what is the climax to their arc. Once you confront mordremoth, he drops a bombshell that could've been inferred; he is the dream, if you kill him you kill the dream as well. This means that once he's dead all the sylvari will become delinked, they will lose their guide. While traherne is shocked and confused, mordremoth uses that opportunity to strike and control him completely. And he's the final boss. One you kill him, you take caladbolg from him and start destroying the dream. mordremoth continues to taunt you stating that your essentially dooming the sylvari. You do it anyway and mordremoth is dead and caladbolg is in pieces. After the fallout, some particular characters you need include zojja and logan, which had most of the plot explained to them and are reflecting on them. Their both racked with grief that not only traherne is dead but their friend is dead too, zojja especially since in the main story she was the one who caused eir to almost do suicide by foe. (One of my biggest gripes about eirs aftermath is zojja just never appeared again after bitter harvest. Even if it was because of the problems with the VA it just sucks.) Finally, you meet the pale mother in the grove who has completely lost her glow and attunement to her children. wracked with grief, confused and curious all at the same time, You give her the shattered caladbolg and she reminisces about both traherne and the other firstborn she gave it to, Riannoc. "This sword was meant to represent life, even if it meant killing it's own roots, I suppose it fulfilled its purpose" is something she would say. she states that the death of the dream has given the one thing sylvari never had; true free will. Sylvari from the moment they are born are set to what their life is through prophecy, everything they've done is under the pretense of that prophecy, this is why the nightmare court exist, some would rather have a bad choice than no choice at all. The death of the dream permanently severs that and what happens now for the sylvari remains an empty page. This is why I think this is a perfect conclusion for the sylvari. the pale mother states that while the future is unknown and frightening for the sylvari, that unknown in of itself leaves so much more for them, it gives them the ability to create the future, good or bad. And that's how the race can finally grow. She finishes by stating that no matter what happens, she will always be there for them. And that's my long winded thoughts in a 6 year old video.

[@WoodenPotatoes]

Thanks man, read these thoughts! It doesn't matter how old a video is, i'm reading/seeing them.

[@g4anode]

Try watching the cutscenes on a 1440p monitor, felt like an upscaled youtube video I'll tell ya.

[@TheSirjull891]

+Tehkezah Probably looks like your running the video from a potato...

[@peterlustig9768]

+TheSirjull891 Not funny

[@Miraki]

Hey WP, I know you sometimes come back and read comments on older videos. Having just come out of the story dealing with kralk and how that went I find it fascinating in retrospect how practically all your criticisms addressed here in how we handle an elder dragon fight and pacing of story have been addressed by the devs. It's like they took every critique from this video to heart. I know you've been saying it's been getting better for a long time, and i've agreed with that.. it's just interesting when I think about the state of Gw2 when this video came out and where it is today. I furiously agreed with all of what you highlighted in this review back when you first published it and most of it still resonates strongly with me. Looking back now, I can say that I'm incredibly satisfied with how we've dealt with the next elder dragon, and it's really impressive how much better the game has become at handling this subject matter. Thinking about the Mordremoth arc we got vs the Kralk one is quite interesting. Thanks as always for your work covering this game, I'll never stop watching your videos :]

[@lukiaa93]

At least let us return Caladbolg, to the Pale Tree. The Pale Tree can then remember the First-born Sylvari. (Put this in Living World 3 plz) I felt a lot of characters really didn't have much depth which has really made me question whether this expansion was really worth it, (Not in a monetary way, but in terms of story telling and other things relating to the game). Caithe's character could of been so much more in this expansion! and the fact that Faolain is dead means that her personal explanation for her character will never truly be explained. I have to admit the egg part of the story and running away from Faolain was a pretty cool mechanical bit of the story. I wished there would been a bit more explanation to Eir as well, sure people who have played and stayed with the series know about what she helped Destiny's Edge accomplished but if your a newer player to the game then WP summed up what were probably thinking at the time. They handled the whole revenant thing so badly, I was majorly hyped for this new profession in the game, and Rytlock brushes it aside basically saying, there sure is a load of cool dead guys, I can borrow there powers! If he doesn't explain in in Living World 3 then there will be serious questions Anet! Also I used to be in-different to Trahearne, but now I might actually miss my second in command... ;___; Anet should hire Mr WP please. It seems he has the better grasp on where the story should go so its actually fleshed out and cohesive. "This won't end well." -Trahearne! Sorry I had to!

[@jahpolley]

Alright. I'm gonna talk about Trahearne for a little. In the original PS for GW2 Trahearne was kind of a derp, I agree with others. But I think Anet may have done that on purpose, he was new at commanding a huge army, like the Pact. After Zhaitan he got a hold of the ropes and started to get used to have it. (Or so I think) I found out that he was preparing the Pact for Kralkatorrik. It also seemed like he was more confident. Fast forward to Season 2. Trahearne starts to turn the Pact towards Mordremoth, he established Camp Resolve and got the Pact ready to take him on. After the player does some stuff at the Priory and so fourth, Resolve is attacked. To me, that is where Trahearne shined. He fought like a badass. I even forgot that he was a total derp at the beginning. Next the fleet takes flight and gets shot down, Trahearne gets taken away and you know the story from there. Now I want know, why was he killed off?

[@JoshStobart]

I believe we should have only had a story leading into dragon's stand and a final bossfight with Faolain, leaving the mordremoth assault for later, giving it the possibility to be more satisfying and to involve a lot more story points. That we missed. The exalted had no part in anything after Auric Basin. The Itzel and Nuhoch barely did anything to support our cause. Where are these stories? If they want to salvage this story, I believe there is a way. What if we only killed mordremoth's connection to the pale tree we know of. We know there are other pale trees so it could be that those are still under the influence of mordremoth but are further within the jungle. We cut off a limb but the beast is still there? Sadly, the dialogue seems to suggest we aren't seeing anything like this so we're probably stuck with what we have. WP I love your videos but your talents are needed at arenanet. Otherwise we may end up being disappointed again and again. That being said, the writers at arenanet are incredibly talented and may have fallen victim to their corporate overlords.

[@TheSirjull891]

+JoshStobart ^corporate overlords. truuuuuuuuuuuuuuue

[@MocharaidThree]

WP said in his recent Q&A that he sees comments even on really old videos so: Hey WP, hope you're having a good day! :D

[@WoodenPotatoes]

Hah, fun one to pick!

[@valgrian]

I haven't been able to play it myself, but from what I see in this video, Eir's death is quite disappointing. Now, the fact that she dies, the conflict with Faolain and all that is a fantastic plot element, but her actual death--as she just stares at this massive monster and waits for it to impale her--what is that? That's not a Norn death. She has a legend to uphold! Where's the tenacity? Sure, she's just been stabbed through the side, she has no weapon... but that doesn't stop a Norn! The bigger the foe the better; the more stacked the odds, the greater the legend; and as those odds defeat you and you gasp your last breath, the blood of your foe under your raw fingernails will sing your song until it can ring through the voices of the Skaalds. But instead, Eir just bumbles like some human... If there's one thing Braham should be most upset about here, it's that the last movements his mother made were to step back away from the mighty beast before her rather than to relish the chance to charge headlong against it to her death.

[@draconicfeline6177]

I don't recall if she can shapeshift or not, but she should have shapeshifted and roared, it would be a true norn end.

[@TomS126]

Wouldn't it have been cool if instead of Faolain being corrupted, what if Mordremoth somehow found Wynn's body and corrupted it. Surely that would've messed with Caithe because she felt bad that she had to kill her all those years ago and then she's suddenly back again

[@gOBSTONE]

One HUGE thing I must completely disagree with you on: The Mouth of Mordremoth. Because of the story confirming to us that Mordremoth doesn't actually exists as a dragon anymore, and has become the jungle itself, the Mouth fight is absolutely a proper fight with an Elder Dragon. And what that fight proves to me is that putting that fight in a personal story instance or even a dragon will always be a massive mistake. The scale the mouth provides just cannot exist in those closed of locations. I do not feel cheated out of an elder dragon fight this xpac, and when the time comes to fight another one, I will feel cheated out of a proper fight if it isn't another map wide world boss. And yeah, the next one being a proper "big fuck-off dragon" to steal a term would be fantastic as all hell, but this one didn't need to be.

[@RatchetHusky]

Rata Novos wasn't wiped out, there is a notice which indicates that all fled through the portal which was destroyed automatically afterwards. so most asura escaped and are now somewhere else. i haven't played this area yet, only done the story so far :)

[@Alurazle]

I found the story OUTSIDE of the instances in the jungle were much more interesting.

[@danielmoir790]

its a really small thing, but i really liked how braham and rytlock continued talking to each other when they seperated off, it felt like it added depth to the world, they didnt just disappear

[@Jontman42]

From what I've seen, it seems to me that HoT was a large feature pack wrapped with some maps and a short story. Sure now they've a good base to build the next however many expansions on, but shouldn't that base have been built with updates instead of sold at 50€? Then spend the resources for the expansion on just the maps and story. I realize that this was probably the only feasible way for Arenanet to make the changes needed, but it leaves a sour taste to me. Since they've said you get all the previous expansions when buying the newest, I'm tempted to just wait for the next expansion that'll hopefully be more heavily focused on world building and story content, instead of fixing and developing game mechanics.

[@Leo-oz9me]

You'll be waiting three years mate

[@Jontman42]

I already waited longer for GW2 after Eye of the North.

[@entropyembrace]

+Jontman42 I almost didn't buy the expansion for this reason. The story you get is maybe a living world season's worth. Or half a season's worth. Most of the new features were rolled out for free so you can enjoy them without paying. I felt like as an active player for most of the time since the game launched that the new maps and elite specs would give me lots of new things to do in game and refresh the experience for me and it that respect I wasn't disappointed. In the end a lot of the expansion features aren't even behind the paywall so unless you're getting the itch to play with the new elite specs, revenant and explore the new maps buying the expansion isn't really essential to enjoy the game. I guess that's ok. Back in GW1 I didn't get into the game until the Factions release and I didn't buy Prophesies until I was getting desperate to unlock some of the skills for builds I wanted to run. This keeps the barrier to entry low and gives the free to play players better quality of life. I think that's healthy for the game.

[@Minandreas213]

+Jontman42 "Since they've said you get all the previous expansions when buying the newest" If this is actually true, that just urks me even more that they are still trying to charge for season 2. Definitely never buying it.

[@Jontman42]

Paul Burkum Can't find it on the new website so they might've changed that, but when they announced that you get the regular game as well when buying HoT they said they plan to include all prior versions of the game whenever you buy the newest one.

[@applethorne9861]

Well glad i saw your video WP. I totally agree with this video. I was really disappointed after i finished HOT yesterday. I was so exited to learn more about the story after all those years that i didn't played it. I loved the scarlet story and had a setup for something big but after living story season 2 the HOT expansion does not seem to connect those 2.

[@robertzorn6063]

Im just confused how this could have happened. In the personal story they had a great story, but VERY poor storytelling(I'm making a difference betwen the story itself written down and how the story is delievered). Now HOT has very good storytelling, but a poor story. This swap could be a joke! It almost like ANet has fired everyone resposible for the PS, looked at the the key problem with PS (storytelling) and ordered some new folks to do better storytelling, but completely forgot about the story itelf.

[@MultiINinja]

+Robert Zorn Lol, yeah, this is really ironic. Sometimes they have the ideas but can't tell them. And then they learn how to tell stories but run of inspiration.

[@legion_sqd]

i wouldn't call the story of vanilla gw2 great, but it made sense at least. We went from incredibly boring and standart (vanilla) to incredibly convoluted and nonsensical (HoT). I must admit, that if given a choice, I still would pick HoT story over the original one, (even without accounting the superb storytelling) but i felt no particular change in quality. I watched enough anime to tolerate this stuff. In the end, I'm happy though. Not satisfied but i feel ok. Its just sad, that woodenpotatoes feels so frustated, I can understand. This video of his was spot-on on all points. Its hard not to be caught in his resentment towards arenanet when it comes to story.

[@Alesthes]

+Robert Zorn I think it is mostly a problem of time and resources. The story is not just about the writing, but about producing instances and playable content that tells that story. I think for HoT most of the people were working on new maps, new specializations, new game systems. The time and persons left to implement the playable parts of the story weren't enough to make more than the handful of story acts we got. I am sure they know that many threads are left loose and they probably hope to catch back with some of those in the Living Story. They could have still done a better job (sometimes their writers seem too worried about writing a "nice" and "simple" story accessible to everyone rather than delving into intricacies and darker themes). But overall it's not surprising to me that we had this kind of result. At least the delivery was pretty good, actually excellent in the first half of the story. And the music... Some parts of the story are worthy just for the mind-blowing soundtrack...

[@skyggeice682]

Hey WP great video, really interesting to hear your full view on what you think of the HoT story.really liking some of these longer 1 off videos that you are doing.I would love to see some more of the 24 h recording that you did at the start of guild wars 2. I was there when you offered to play the second episode on twitch and was really disappointed when other people didn't want to.would it be possible to see more of those videos on this channel or on concrete ducks?as always great video and looking forward to see more :)

[@Lymew]

I really hope the devs watch this video...!

[@zoofway]

The end of that last clip was top notch. Love your sense of humor WP

[@onkyo13]

After finishing the story, I started questioning myself if it was really worth paying 50$ on this game...

[@ajpu6221]

Hello! I believe Jourmag is the dragon of the mind because the hole jungle works as a brain and neurons (some fungun in real life seem to work this way). As a brain/ming magical being he can enter the minds of others and manipulate them as we see him do. So the way to kill him is at the core of his mind, at the center of the jungle at the "Heart of Maguma"

[@Zhaife]

woodenpotatoes? mordremoth looked like a potato? coincidence?

[@themagicalblingbling]

Thanks a lot for this video! I played Guild Wars for ages and really enjoyed it, but never made the move to Guild Wars 2, mostly because I had invested a lot of time in Guild Wars 1 and decided that I wasn't prepared to do the same thing for another game anymore (which I would have definitely done had I bought Guild Wars 2). However, I do love the lore of Tyria and like to follow up on the story of Guild Wars 2. So I really love to watch your reviews on the newest developments in the story and have been hoping for a video such as this ever since Heart of Thorns was released! So thanks again!

[@Arkantos3001]

I'm gonna miss trahearne :(

[@W4lhalla]

With the Dragon Stand and Last Story Mission. It is strongly hinted that both Things, the last DS Event and the last Story Mission are happening on the same Time. The battle outside is refering to the MoM Battle and even if the Characters are referring you as Commander, I think that the Pact has more than just one Commander.

[@Dharengo]

But I like brown bread. :(

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Dharengo (So do I!)

[@Scahla]

+WoodenPotatoes pumpernickel? so good

[@johnkim1217]

+Dharengo My favorite is potato bread!

[@Nr4747]

+WoodenPotatoes Great video, would be nice to hear your thoughts on my theory, that this rushed ending might not have been the original plan for "base" HoT and that we were originally meant to fight Mordremoth in the Living World updates. What do you think ?

[@Dharengo]

Nr4747 Create your own message threat for that. :P That being said, I doubt it's like that. We were always meant to fight Mordy during the personal story. However the personal story was probably meant to be more expansive. But then they 1) underestimated how much time they'd need to create all that and/or 2) some decisions were made to change how things were done because their plans were too grand for the designers/programmers too implement

[@lamuness]

Talking about Canach though, I'm not sure if it was a bug or whatever, but I took him into the dream with me, and after defeating his image and opening that rift, Canach turns red and I believe you're able to attack him. However my friend was the instance owner and she pressed F to go into the rift right away so I couldn't try attacking him.

[@116bowl]

The story was just lackluster...

[@SoulSlesh]

Here's a thing: Arenanet could have used *Scarlet's machine* /a version of that to connect to *Trahearne* and reach *the dream* that would have made more sense.(and it would have tied everything nicely to the living world). As for the *mind dragon* thingy they could have explained that *Mordremoth* is actually energy based and its vines are nothing more than conductors/a physical shell - that way at the end *Trahearne* could have said something like *"not all its roots are gone.. there's one more left"* and point at himself and ask you to take his life. (a few simple details I know.)

[@_illi_]

Very nice video, I always enjoy you talking about story and the longer, the better :) That said - I believe Gixx, Almora and Master of Whispers are just in their own HQs. Pact is, after all, a separate movement with forces made up of members of those orders (and of the nations of Tyria as well), but the leaders of those forces are not part of the Pact. Queen Jennah sent Seraph to fight with the pac - does it make queen Jennah part of the Pact? And while we are talking about Jennah... I believe the amulet was indeed touched on, though just hinted at and may have some significance in the future. I don't know if you remember, but you was once talking about how cool it would be if Dougal Kane could be found in the jungle and helping you. Well, he is now leader of the Guild Initiative (the force that is meant to be to replace the now destroyed Pact). He is in the HQ in LA and has some dialogue. Nothing substantial, but I found it interesting.

[@Carathai]

You getting stomped by Ein was amazing! It totally caught me off guard haha For me, every time I was in a story instance I was really into it. The voice acting was great and I felt much more a part of the story. However, the breaks between instances/open world tracking bits made each step seem almost unrelated as if I had missed an episode in a tv show. I totally agree that there was just too much stuff that the player character and Destiny's Edge 2.0 just suddenly thought of or took for granted without proper introduction. Having said this, I found that the positives outweighed the negatives (or at least covered for them) and I did enjoy the experience as a whole.

[@labdG]

I've allways liked the story of GW2 but at the same time I had alot of trouble keeping track of all the characters and caring about them. I guess it's more that I've seen alot of potential with the story and wanted to like it more than I actually did. I just tricked myself into thinking that the story was handled very well because I wanted to like it. To hear you critisism of it really opened my eyes to all of it and now I know why I've been having so much trouble with the story, and I think that will actually help me enjoy it more now that I can see it the way it is. I'm very glad I watched this video. So thanks for that.

[@icelandic1717]

i watched the whole thing, and gotta say, you enumerated a number of things I thought myself, good and bad. TY for all the work on the longer vid here :)

[@MM-ru4hc]

Hey WP, the first in-game mail you got was from an NPC called Mordrem Researcher Eullo whom I don't believe we've ever heard of before. It was never specifically clarified but I took this person to be "E". Ela Makkay could also work. They really did just drop the ball on the big "E" reveal though...

[@HRNNNGH]

I find it especially weird that in the very first instance of the story to get to Verdant Brink we have to do events that are available in open world Silverwastes (bull escort and amber defense), and yet no open world events were included afterwards where they actually mattered for the story.

[@graywynters2251]

on the whole Mordremoth being the dragon of the mind thing, there is a little more in that vein than you mention. while all dragons corrupt people, mordremoth only corrupts sylvari (non-sylvari can be use to make minions, but never corrupted themselves) and then uses this to create the whole paranoia between sylvari and non-sylvari, which is a pretty mind-game, psychological warefarey thing to do. it's not exactly soild, but there are bits and pieces there.

[@justmaartenFTW]

ever thought about continuing your lore series? that was amazing

[@Jesthor]

Allright: where did you get the Final Battle Music (1:07:00)? I love that track! Has it been released yet? :D

[@Nr4747]

My theory on the rushed Rata Novus and the abrupt ending is that it was originally planned to *not* kill Mordremoth right at the "start" of HoT. Maybe the story was originally planned to end with the discovery of Rata Novus and was supposed to build up from there with Taimi explaining that "we need a few weeks of research before we can push further and defeat Mordremoth" and then defending her and Rata Novus from the Chak, involving the World Leaders etc. ?

[@ladySelua]

0 issues with the video length. It was very thorough and much appreciated. I've watched the assorted HoT story missions on youtube, but haven't had a chance to play it through myself as yet. So, I can't say I agree or disagree regarding a lot of your points. I do agree that it would have been nice to see them do more with Caithe and Faolain. Considering some of the things we see and some of the things we don't, I have to wonder how much was made that didn't make the cut in the end. I don't have a whole lot of hope for LS3, unfortunately. I've always felt (even since GW1) that while Anet potentially has some good plot lines and some great lore, they do an abysmal job of telling it through the game play.

[@MerryGamer]

I've been looking forward to this video since HoT launch! I hope that watching this video piecemeal doesn't make me one of those people who don't watch all the way to the end! I love super long length videos from you WP even though the majority of people may not, I also hope you decide to turn your GW2 Personal Story "essay/dissertation" into a video for us before you decide to send it off to anet :D (if you ever choose to go through with that)

[@ReapeX]

@24:39 Where was this giant spinning spider?

[@johnathannorton444]

Wp, I never comment on ur stuff, but you have out-done yourself with this one. I am so happy you are here to do this stuff for us. This is a lot of work out of passion that we share for this game, and you do a phenomenal job. I just want to thank you for putting the time in to make words that correctly surmise my opinions on the story, and being a very knowledgeable, dedicated, and public voice for the loyal community. A lot of this stuff I wasn't even thinking about when I was playing it, but you have revealed my opinions to me. I can't thank you enough for your willingness to put out long content like this for us, ignoring "the standard format" for the masses, because its what YOU want to do. In this area arenanet needs to learn from you. In regards to the story and their vision, they need to largely ignore the community's whining. (aside from balancing issues) Friggin make us play the damn metas! They are the story too! Tie it all together! Do what you want to do Anet! Take more time with these expansions. Put the dialogue in, write the brilliant lore we know you can write. Fuck the casuals who expect all the hand holding and who don't like gated story stuff. The whole point of the masteries is progress your character. To turn your him/her into a person who has the skills to do the things required to lead the world against the most destructive, primordial forms of its magic. I'll join in on the forums to give my individual voice, but my voice will get lost in the hive of minds. Just, thanks for being you.

[@stanleyc2978]

I just came back to the game after playing it for about year at release and got both the expansions. More fantastic than I could have imagined. Going back and enjoying this vids makes it even better.

[@BlueFlow]

Whatever happens to the franchise you will be always remembered as a super important asset to the game. Your videos are great, you show off all your research and you always bring up important questions. Thank you!

[@WoodenPotatoes]

+Blue Flow Thank you very much!

[@ldsneo]

Hey WP I just wanted to say thank you for your work on this video. It was awesome and I could tell you really dedicated a lot of your personal time (like in all your other stuff)to make this great. love all that you do. great job.

[@connorgabor4972]

I thought it would have been interesting if the story had implemented on how the classes got their new abilities and elite specs. Braham could have picked up Eir's bow and sought revenge and became the dragon hunter. There could have been an episode of the story where we are fighting along with the exalted where rytlock uses one of his skills and the exalted see him and recognise that he is using some of glint's power. Then they could have taken him to the egg where it communicates with rytlock and gives him some special powers for defeating mordy. That would have given some purpose to the egg in the story and made it useful. There was a lot of talk about how the egg now gave hope to defeating mordy but it really played no role in the end. That would have also created some character development and excitement with the egg as-well as explaining how revs got their elite spec "glint". There could have also been a lot of new characters added to the story with the use of explaining how elite specs were found. Maybe a tribe of warrior itzel were found going crazy against the mordrem and tought warriors how to use the torch and channel warriors anger to their advantage. The commander (the player) could have been killed by mordremoth and kasmeer could have had to travel back in time to save the commander and deflect some sort of projectile with a shield to prevent the commanders death, thus creating the chronomancer. I have more ideas but I wont go into them. I thought having elite specs just come out of no where was stupid. discovering new elite specs could have played an important role for defeating mordy which could have been a cool part of the story which ties the new gameplay and the story together. I would have also liked to see more connections between the pale tree and mordremoth and how the pale tree escaped mordy's control. I agree with most of what WP said. This expansion did not nearly have enough story to it. I think a lot of it had to do with poor planning. It felt like they had just created the story as they went along which led to the devs being short on time and having the end of the story be very rushed and badly thought out. Maybe instead, they could have started designing the story at the very end of the story instead of the beginning. that way the end would have seemed more planned and you would just be rushing into the important things. They also needed to actually write down a well thought story before things actually went on. The writers for this expansion did a crap job. All suspense that had built up was completely dissolved as soon as things began rushed. Everything about the final battle with mordy seemed rushed, especially mordremoths design... MORDREMOTH LITERALLY LOOKED LIKE BARNEY WTF. What about all of the concept art of the jungle dragon! What about the cinematic where it shows mordremoth being constructed by a bunch of smaller vines! Mordy's design was probably the most disappointing thing for me. Mordy looked so derpy. He didn't even look plantlike. ugh. Also the thing about mordremoth being dragon of the mind: I think that he is the original pale tree. He creates these dreams which brainwash and transform other creatures into obeying him whereas other dragons, like zhaitan, just take over their bodies. One of your earlier videos went over a little but about how zhaitan is not the dragon of life because there is a ghost somewhere that talks about how zhaitan took over their body. The ghost is his consciousness so that is probably his "mind." Also, if the pale tree stems from mordremoth, wouldn't she also have to brainwash and dement other creatures to create sylvari? Either that or she just magically imagines new sylvari in a dream and thats how they get brought into existence.

[@PivotsAndDivots]

It would have been really interesting if, as Mordremoth kept absorbing ley energy, if he got strong enough to exhibit even a little bit of control over non-sylvari (something like the toxic illusions in season 1). Would have given credence to the idea that he's the elder dragon of minds, and would have set the stakes even higher.

[@mikeskyers5666]

Great video! I in line with about 90% of what you said. I think the Rylock Rev talk can be saved for later. Him being a no nonsense guy was on a mission to save his friends and him being a man of few words it may be difficult to explain all that happen in a way that would satisfy the others. Is it just me missing something but Does anyone know What happened to Eir's best friend Garm? I don't remember her telling him to stay back at home, or anything of the sort, And his was always at her side in the book.

[@HarJBeRw]

I honestly think the the STORY this expansion had its flaws and negative sides, but , while I was dissapointed by the absence of story in normal Tyria, my expectations due to previous ways the story was told was very low and I was very pleased by the story in its generality.