World of Warships - Shells Detailed

[@raygiordano1045]

All I know for sure about HE vs AP is that I always have the wrong type loaded.

[@Notser]

haha :)

[@capt_kelris9954]

I know that feeling... You loaded AP, the target get front positioning, so you load HE, and the time you do this he goes broadside, etc etc.... synchro fail between you and your target... -_-'

[@Blood_Monkey]

This kind of video typifies why I love your channel Notser. You tell people the details behind the ships, stuff that's not widely known or easy to find out. Kudos to you Notser!

[@thomasbernecky2078]

The first comprehensive, yet non-tortuous explanation of this I've seen. Thanks, Notser.

[@titan_fx]

More content explaining game mechanics pls! Oh plus, more down the line vids

[@N1njaSnake]

More down the line vids, yes please!

[@raymondz999]

YES, PLS NOTSER.

[@Notser]

Will definitely be making more down the line, I'll just grab the footage without the damn stream. Ugh I hate Comcast!

[@1LRLRG]

don't forget HE damage can be repaired most as apposed to AP as well

[@Snagabott]

It can? Fire damage can be healed 100%, yes, but I don't think the game makes a distinction between regular penetration damage from AP or HE (both will usually be 50% healable with some ships able to heal a bit more).

[@zielritter]

Correct. Pen damage is pen damage regardless of shell.

[@TheIcyWizard705]

I love the videos explaining game mechanics, I hope that you will make more of these in the future

[@FaceofDanger]

Excellent video! Please make more videos about the mechanics in the game; the more well-understood the rules, the better the play.

[@cweber9112]

Your videos are awesome man. Tried out Destroyers after watching that video and had a ton of fun with them. Currently working on the Japanese line of Destroyers. Got to love that range!!

[@sgtrock5273]

As always great information Notser, thank you Berry Berry much sir.

[@btbarr16]

I wish WoWs would give us the penetration values for angle and distance like War Thunder does. Let us be educated players without having to do a bunch of calculations. Especially, since their own videos that they do on their premium ships show different penetration values based on distance to target. We're all experienced it in game too. At 5km a Des Moines can citadel some BBs but it's hard to know where that range is exactly. By the way, the Des Moines can citadel the French T10 BB at 12km.

[@Cailus3542]

Yeahsure A boy scout with an airsoft rifle can citadel La Republique, apparently. Still, I’m not complaining. It’s nice to have a Tier X BB that has a clear weakness. *glares at Kurfurst and Conqueror*

[@_lumiaart_2010]

The german tir 10 can be cited by a 15inch gun at distance and so can the RN tier 10 . range and evaluation bro

[@btbarr16]

Cailus Griffin but at that distance with a 203mm? That's a little more that a weakness. That's a f*** up. Flamu did a video and he was getting at least one cit each salvo.

[@btbarr16]

Alexis Spoor 15in it's almost twice the size of 8in. I just watched Flamu's video again he was actually getting those cits at 15km not 12km. I was mistaken.

[@ObamaTookMyCat]

well the reason why they dont is because of the such poor accuracy of the guns. Remember, ships of this era had an average of 8-12% hit ratio per salvo.... thats fucking awful

[@samruth240]

hahaha.... I was wondering when this video might come out. I here you say something about this almost every video you do. Great educational vid Notser. Thanks for teaching me some new stuff

[@samruth240]

maybe you should do a video on shell velocity

[@Phucough3]

Notser, I don't think you have enough ships. Good gravy man.

[@papi139]

Great information. I actually needed this. Thanks.

[@Straswa]

Nice vid Notser, learned a few things.

[@Nick-dw3sv]

Would love to see a comparison of secondaries with ifhe verses non-ifhe but with manual secondary control. Ty have a good day

[@alexeiwheel4859]

Thank you @Notser for this late but great video, good explaining by you mate, keep you work up! ;-P

[@hofnaerrchen]

I'm lately getting quite a lot of AP pens that deal no damage or at least no damage is shown when getting them. Wonder if that are those mysterious "don't stay in the ship pens"? And I don't talk of areas where damage saturation will take place. Happens even on undamaged enemy ships.

[@michaelgimenez4032]

German ballistic, aiming at the superstructure and seeing the volley split down the middle to not even touch your target (you can hear them laugh). Also British BB didnt get the memo about how to use AP they sent all the metal to their cruiser line....

[@ranaklindor8069]

HA! I knew you could overpen the Citadel! TAKE THAT RANDOM STRANGER IN THE LYON LAST NIGHT. I WAS RIGHT!

[@Schmeethe88]

Yeah, that's an old mechanic. You USED to be able to get automatic citadels whenever you penetrated the citadel armor, but they changed it because too many bad players giving full broadside complained about devastrikes. :/

[@Fargrath]

Once upon a time, when DDs still had citadels... ;-)

[@agnyr]

Do you remember when was this change implemented?

[@Fargrath]

I can't access the official changelog from work, but reddit implies that it was patch 0.5.1: www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/3ryo7y/i_think_i_figured_out_whats_wrong_with_bb_ap/

[@la_potat6065]

I suggest you look up Ichase's Penetration mechanics and overpenetrations mechanic vid... kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpaTaYBvi7qYpJY kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXLFamB5aMqgm7c Teaches the importance of shell velocity - and arm times - and how ship width determine chances of pens/overpens...

[@johnv6059]

Noster, like your videos, have a question on DD vs DD type of ammo to use. Should I use He or AP? Does it depend on the ship firing or the ship you are firing on? thanks

[@oleister]

I need an advice. ATM I am recognizing that I am more often facing CL/CA bow 'tanking' to my BB in close range. Obviously not the worst idea, smaller target, protected citadel. I am struggling to counter this situation. Outmaneuver, I am not agile enough. Showing my broadside to get the rear guns in äkschn, not a smart idea. Reverse to get distance, not sure. Yesterday I had a recognizable situation. In my Missouri had a safe path to engage an island hugging Des Moines. I approached from the side and turned towards him at 6km range, just before he can target me. Than we floated there bow to bow at 6km shooting with the front guns at each other. We both used AP, I had 3/4 health, he had 100%. Without help, he might have sunk me or at least left with 10% health. So, should I avoid this situations and if, how to get the best out of this case?

[@BazoombaBoomba]

Hey Notser, i appreciate this video, but i have a question: Why do i get bounces when i fire with my 460mm guns on a bow on target? When i overmatch the angle shouldnt be an issue?! But i still get bounces. Perhaps you could make an extra video where you show how you do that in the trainingsroom?

[@rrevolver1]

Hey Notser! Hope you are doing well. Is it possible to suggest to wargaming to implement a feature to remove all the signal flags at once instead of selecting all 8 manually? That would make life so much easier. Cheers for the vid

[@cobrazax]

maybe there is a mod for that

[@DaKillerChipmunk]

There is. You sell the ship! You're welcome!

[@cobrazax]

insta removing all signals would be nice, WITHOUT selling the ship

[@rrevolver1]

Missouri doesn't have sell option for me. Ba dum tsss

[@cobrazax]

btw...y u want to remove all flags from Missouri? i usually only swap a few flags...

[@Bakerfarmer]

Great video!

[@timbergmann3372]

Well...you need to choose one of those two ammo types...EXCEPT you drive a british BB. (Conqueror, I look into your direction...) then you just load HE. HE for every situation. The enemy shows you his front? Load HE. The enemy is winning? Load HE. The enemy is angled? Load HE. The enemy is sending bombers with nuclear warheads onboard? Search their carrier and then load HE. The enemy shows broadside? Load HE. You don't need to citadel him, you just use the advantage that he can't see you anymore from his command-bridge when his ship is burning like a witch in the 15th century... Well, I guess that describes at least the Conqueror pretty good. ;D Disclaimer: I don't have anything against british BBs and I don't want to unleash any form of salt with this message; it's only made for the purpose of fun (Yeah, I know, there are people out there who can't even spell the word "fun" but I guess there are still some who can ;D ). (nowadays you just need to look at the WoWs- or WoT-Community to know that there are so many people complaining about anything that I must write this under my text to prevent being missunderstood ^^)

[@KaHzAdaNe]

One thing i was wondering the other day, and you didn't say : Is it possible to start a fire from a shattered HE shell ?

[@felixthecat0371]

KaHzAdaNe yeah but half the chance than normal

[@MuckRatz]

Hi notser, could you perhaps explain why a 330mm dunkerque shell will overpen those tasty broadside cruiser at point blank, but say a bayern with 380 will not. Seems it is not calliber (or atleast not just) Shell speed maybe?

[@Notser]

I will try to learn more about it, LittleWhiteMouse might have the info somewhere

[@Gua2O5]

Ricochet angles：normal 60degree，us 203mm 67degree, british 155mm 75degree, please correct if I m wrong;)

[@la_potat6065]

British Cruiser 152mm is 67 degrees (and HMS Hood). Normal is 60 degree US 203 is 60 degree - but it has a very very high normalisation value - hence it can lolpen bows of cruisers solely because of this... No ship has an auto bounce above 68 degrees...

[@GritimoTheOdd]

I run HE on BB's a lot of the time because regardless of range, angle or target, my shots either bounce or overpen. Ive over penned amidships belt armor of teir 10 BB's in my Missouri, and bounced off the flat side of Hindenburg and Pensacolas that were perfectly broadside to me.

[@TheMouseMasterYT]

I thought the dmg for "normal penetrations" was 33% AP, 25% HE

[@yoraul5157]

Is IFHE a good choice for 457mm guns on Conqueror? With 30% more penetration divided by 4 results 148mm of penetration that would penetrate all T10 broadside cruisers armor.

[@Notser]

I think it is a question of value, do you get more from using the 4 points on something else. Would be interesting but don't know how effective it would be

[@la_potat6065]

If im completely honest I find such a concept disgusting... Orion was bad enough... 148mm of he pen won't pen 152mm T10 heavy cruiser armour... (thank god) Only Zao, on her engine and boiler sections and Minautar carry citadel belts at 102mm thick... Every other ship like Des Moines and Moskva have 152mm citadel belts - and Hindenberg has 90-100mm + 60m citadel turtleback... meaning its pretty useless - as opposed to comparing it to the Orion - where every other cruiser at that tier - up to t5-t6 have carry only 50-70mm citadel belts. Such a meta would make the RN BB gameplay even more passive, more spamming and more power creep than it already is...

[@PGM991]

I aim at water line of CA and end up overpen a lot, I'd say 10 - 15 overpen per 1 citadel. and it's not worth it, so I use HE even i'm BB.

[@multidial_ch]

PGM991 It means u are aiming at the wrong section of the ship, AP will just overpen their bow and stern. Also, dont get too close otherwise the shell arc will be too flat and will just fly above citedal. Look up where their citedal is in the game using Armor Layout view. In game, stay distance and aim exactly there with AP, u will start to get big numbers.

[@YelrocVideos]

Can you do one of these on how to avoid having a magazine detonation occur to you while you're in a destroyer? It's more often than 10% of my DD matches but probably less than 33%. I'm definitely a casual for this game. If DD lines matter for this question the following are the highest I have in the different lines: T8 Harekaze (favorite by far), T7 Shiratsuyu (I'll have the Akizuki within this week though), T6 Fubuki, T7 sims (disappointment but it was only $5 when I got it over a year ago), T5 USA, T6 German, T5 Russian, T4 Pan Asian.

[@retromario96]

Yelroc Run the detonation flag. No really. You can't do anything about it. Anytime a ship takes a damaging hit to anything that would be considered a vital area (For destroyers this is pretty much the entire ship) you have something like a 5% chance to just explode. It was changed recently to where detonations can only occur on ships below 75% health but it's still quite irritating.

[@derekholman6053]

What Motor said. You really just have to run the anti-deto flag. Destroyers are especially susceptible to it. Alternatively, never get spotted and shot at.

[@ThatAussieBloke1]

I miss the CBT days when AP was epic

[@koalanetzekoalanetze1966]

I wonder if someone did already a spreadsheet with HE, AP penetration etc. values. Would be nice. Anybody has an idea where to find this?

[@FoxRacer30]

@7:41 My RNG ambassador brings back reports from RNGesus of overpens on the Yamato from a Missouri as well as shatters on the broadside of an Izumo from a Musashi. Yeah. I don't get it either.

[@daz0705]

Also just to add to this, has anyone noticed main gun turrets being incapacitated more often

[@DarkxOver]

oh shit i didnt know you can overpen the citadel. when did they change that?

[@la_potat6065]

It was always like that...

[@edhikurniawan]

You forgot to mention cheek penetration and from deck or superstructure to citadel penetration

[@pwsod]

What about 150mm on German destroyers? Is it the same as 150mm on cruisers?

[@hqgrummel]

150mm is 150mm. the penetration/overmatch values should be the same. but of course guns are different with every ship, so they can have different firing arcs and shell velocity. most likely the cruiser guns would fire faster shells so it is easier to hit the target while the destroyer shells are most likely slower and therefore need to be shot higher in the air to reach the same distance. because of this they take longer, which makes it a little harder to hit them.

[@BlackHawk2b]

I think he is wwondering if German DDs have the 1/4 and not the 1/6

[@Panzercommander121]

German DDs only have the 1/6 pen with both their 128mm and their 150mm. It's intended to prevent them from being able to spam battleships to death by simply shooting at their bows.

[@pwsod]

Masato Fujiwara yes you are correct I was thinking of the 1/4 rule.

[@pwsod]

Katya Hodgson but the same guns on the tier 6 German cruiser with many more guns does just spam hell and brimstone on BB bows and superstructure.

[@Drink4Exp]

Stop making battleship captains fall for the Royal Navy syndrome! XD

[@bongothecat3233]

Notser does the gun caliber/14.3 penetration calculation only works for the bow? Or it applies to other section of the ship too?

[@Sir_Godz]

all

[@hqgrummel]

when you divide your gun caliber by 14,3 you just get the amount of armor that you can penetrate regardless of the angle. no matter where. you just have to look up a ship and see how much armor it has. you can go over all sections with your mouse and it tells you how much armor it has at this section. (for example the yamato that notser showed could overmatch the bow of another yamato because 32,1678 > 32mm that the bow armor has. but you could not overmatch the deck armor of another yamato which is 50mm, because 32,1678 < 50mm. to penetrate the deck or side of another yamato your shell needs to hit in a way that the armor is not angled that much, otherwise is will just riccochet) hope you got it right! :)

[@ma6netho]

but you could not overmatch the side armor of Khaba which is 50mm lul

[@blowtup]

i thought this was a visual detailing video. try changing title to when to use HE & AP Shells or shell type explained please

[@hardworkingslacker7233]

I bet the average player forgot all you´ve said 2 minutes after having finished to watch your video. The problem with theory is that it won´t stick in your head if it is just rawly thrown at you. If you really want people to learn how penetration works, saying "Don´t shoot here" isn´t enough. You need to showcase your problem by showing a bad example "Oha, that didn´t work :(" followed up by a good example "See, thats better :)". Or at least recommend Ichase´s captains academy about penetration ;D

[@Seahorn_]

When are you going to stream again? Just wondering.......

[@Notser]

I'm stuck waiting for my ISP to do their job, I have no other competing ISP to go to in my area. I would have to move to get out of this hell

[@anonymousstout4759]

night battle when?

[@tyronedlisle4412]

Hey notser what do you mean by overmatch?

[@tyronedlisle4412]

Also is it ever possible to get into the magazine? How close would you have to be and what kind of velocity would you need? Just seems like the current math means you can't penetrate very thick armour

[@TheFuzzypuddle]

Overmatch means the shells are large enough relative to the armor they are hitting to penetrate regardless of angle. If the shell is not large enough relative to the armor it is hitting, it will not overmatch, so it will bounce and cause no damage.

[@Bajie_Smuggler]

Hitting the magazine is either a citadel or if rng loves you/hates the target a detonation. The maths he went over are for HE rounds, AP rounds depending on Calibre can go through hundreds of mm of armour. Overmatch means guaranteed penetration. If your guns can get through 25mm of armour but the target has 20mm of armour they will penetrate regardless of the angle of the ship. IFHE lets cruisers overmatch 25mm of armour which covers bow, stern and deck of heaps of teir 6-8 ships enabling light cruisers (150-155mm) guns to massively increase their damage potential. Heavy cruisers (203+mm) already penetrate 25mm so pointless to take IFHE and lose fire chance potential.

[@anonymousstout4759]

Basically overmatched is where your shell go through armor regardless the angle because the shell is big as 14.3 X the armour that it's face its not affected by range, that's why yamato still got 14k damage even when you bow on again her.

[@genericpersonx333]

The problem with the AP penetration values is that there are a lot of variables we know about and some we may not know about. Wargaming is a bit vague about the AP formula. Change any one variable and the shell will perform very differently. For example, a shell that is very fast will more likely ricochet on a steeply-angled surface than a slower one. Conversely, a faster shell will penetrate deeper than a slower one against a flatter surface. Shells also have variable inertia values; some will lose velocity a lot faster than others. Not all AP fuses work the same either; some will require less armor penetration to activate the fuse, reducing the chance of over-penetration, but that could mean the shell almost always detonates before it can reach the citadel, In other words, AP is just complicated. The only real way to learn how effective your AP shells are is experience.

[@Matkovic99]

Since when has KM CA's had their HE pen divided by 4? Did they just update this?

[@FinnMacCuhl]

Updated a while ago. Basically its IFHE for free

[@jeremyjean13]

Almost a year ago, with the 6.6 update

[@Notser]

Perfect example of information that should be clearly marked in the game since it influences strategy

[@Matkovic99]

I would have never figured this out since at least their secondaries would be a telltale sign of the /4 rule but I guess on the cruisers the /4 rule doesnt extend to secondaries and only on battleships

[@slim2429]

Pleaseeeee streammm soonnnnn

[@Marty3750]

Moose A He bwahahahaaaaaaa atchouiey :D :P

[@Asgar1205]

"How do AP and HE work in wows" answer: they don't :D

[@bigbigmurphy]

HE destroys modules

[@thomaswhalen3703]

First

[@anthonyware4033]

TTubE ! No i was first i have a time machine!!!!!!

[@thomaswhalen3703]

Anthony Ware lol

[@la_potat6065]

Canceror HE superior - citadel cruisers with HE regardless of angle - slap IFHE for the memes... dont get me wrong notser im not here to joke about IFHE here - its actually applicable for the RN BB line... damn wg making the game more braindead for the already pretty braindead BB playerbase.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer i think they should change how HE works keep in mind this is coming from a crusier player aswell. At least change it for the RN battleships give them Alpha HE or insane fire chance but not both.

[@n00btotale]

I'm fine with the HE alpha and fire chance, but I really think they should rework her concealment, as she can easily out- spot a few T10 CA's.

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

she can now get deleted by Montana now much easier to citadel.

[@n00btotale]

+Outwardpanicjoe Just like every other T10 BB. (Exception is Currywurst) So it's not really a nerf to her. It's just a "rework".

[@outwardpanicjoe8950]

currywurst can be citadel easier at the range now it seems

[@sabrinnur3499]

Third :v

[@JOHN58476]

and RN CL ships don't HE

[@ShadyNoctis]

Just Belfast *cringe*

[@n00btotale]

10% = 0.1, 0% = 0 0 x 0 = 0, and 0 x 0.1 = 0, therefore 10% = 0% = 0. :P

[@Leo-pd8ww]

I guess that's how you got that extra chromosome

[@n00btotale]

Actually, I missed out on half a chromosome, so I have 25.5 to be precise.

[@jacobsander436]

Gotta help out the HE battleship noobs lol