Worst MMO Ever? - Warhammer 40k: Eternal Crusade

This game, might be heresy.
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[@alfabusa]

I was excessively involved in both the community and the creation process of this game. I watched the Intro The Warp livestreams every week, I played it as soon as a playable build was sent out to those with an early pre-order, I used my platform to convince others to pre-order it so I could get a cool unique special armour that was promised to those who recruited people, and I just really, truly wanted it to be good. I actually legitimately enjoyed the game, too. Sure, it was basic, but it held such promise. I was genuinely, _deeply_ excited. I was in full denial when things started looking bleak, and I made tons of excuses when the devs rapidly started dropping its roadmap. And then, the release happened, clearly forced out by the publishers when the game clearly needed WAY more time in the oven. That, I think, is when the devs lost most of their power and slowly but surely had to drop the game and escape the justifiably rabid and disappointed community. Didn't even get that cool unique special armour.......... A waste.

[@carlosbernard7614]

Well, you werent the only one fooled atleast

[@theosb7271]

Hey Bruva. Sorry to hear you wasted so much time and effort, but it does kinda prove just how much you care about the franchise and the community of warhammer over all. The Emperor does approve.

[@AltoStratusX1]

If it's any consolation text to speech made me the man I am today. Also there's still the 20 other sub par warhammer games, 400 terrible ones, 3 good ones and DoW 1 to play.

[@desktop328]

im not sure if giving it more time for development would have helped. I mean i dont think its possible for them to finish the game with unlimited time and money. Its been so many years after the release, it was a popular hyped up game that tons of people paid for. They have basically had unlimited time and money and nothing to show for it.

[@professormccoyspopculturer8345]

Don't worry Alf the cool armor was the friends we made along the way all this time, hang into their honorable battle brother

[@Aithan83]

If you guys like what you see, the single player game Space Marine is basically this, but with a campaign and a story.

[@messageinthebottle1673]

Funny enough that's what the eternal cursade was basically build on.

[@jamesyoung9228]

God SM was good

[@carpet163]

And better multiplayer.

[@soundwave1021]

I still play it. You'll get a match on SM much quicker than EC

[@anthonyshanaman5637]

And good

[@dropkickpiper3204]

I loved how much enthusiasm he put into the actual tabletop 40K game, this guy should do full battle reports.

[@toffeelatte6042]

Ngl if people like Josh were around games workshop for tournaments id have taken way more interest in 40k battles when I was younger.

[@osteoporosis7274]

WHO WON?!

[@Wargulf2838]

it's a sign when the actual TT game is more interesting than the mmo ^^

[@doesnotexist6524]

I was really disappointed when the queue popped and we didn't see the end of the battle.

[@Kuchhh]

@@Wargulf2838that’s exactly what GW wants. Interest you in the hobby, and then buy what they really want you to buy.

[@madhippy3]

I still recall that the game was always begging to to have a free to play element called “free to Waagh”. The idea was the games factions would not be equals. Orks would have the number advantage as all the free to play players would be restricted to ork boys. I thought this was an inspired idea when they announced it, but like most of their aspirations they were abandoned after they had my pre order money.

[@TARINunit9]

Free to WAAAGH was dependent on them delivering on the original "Planetside 40k" vision, which they never got even close to

[@madhippy3]

@@TARINunit9 Very true. And the PvE elements VS nids was just as dependent.

[@Elenrai]

@@TARINunit9 I mean, could just nerf the ork team as the guy hinted at and then apply a 2:1 or even 4:1 ratio in favour of the orks but make ranged utterly ass and melee mediocore, build their playstyle around gardening

[@cursedhawkins1305]

@@madhippy3 Were they? Because I heard the PvE elements with the Tyranids originally were that they surrounded the four playable factions and were not only used as a way to introduce PvE for anyone that didn't want to do the PvP but were also a faction in-balance check if one was doing better than the others, the Tyranids would attack that faction which would in theory result in some players of that faction being pulled to defend against the Tyranids.

[@madhippy3]

@@cursedhawkins1305 That might be true. If it was I have forgotten in the time since they promised it. But that isn't mutually to the Free To WAAAGH idea. Being an Ork Boy was going to be the most basic of content. Orks would have the numbers but not that would be cheap infantry without specialization. Its a good idea as the only other horde army in the game nids who are run by the computer to be an agent of chaos in the game world.

[@Zenn_Chan]

this video just made me want to see you do more 40k battles. The animations you added really spiced it up

[@AntonAdelson]

Yes!!

[@DaRealKakarroto]

After watching this video, there is one question left: Who won, the Necrons or the Spacemarines?

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@DaRealKakarroto I found it weird that I was rooting for the Spess Marheens.

[@johnhenry6516]

Would love to see full videos of these battles

[@williamthomson7631]

Who won the necrons or the space marine. And get a base on that dreadnaught man

[@burnedraventales6030]

I still do not understand how warhammer, something with some of the best lore and world building etc, can have so much trouble getting a good game made.

[@WintersFinalstand]

@richtea78 its not GW with the issues. It's publishers thinking they can do whatever they want usually. Behavior is what killed the game. I remember when they drained all funds for the game and left it in maintenance mode. It wasn't a willing thing for the devs. That said, the devs built in the very worst direction. Then they slashed hp in half.

[@eran3161]

@richtea78 tbh, it was probably for the better. i like warhammer, but i dont think world of warcraft or even warcraft 3 would have had the same success to a broader audience with the grim setting of warhammer. instead warcraft has developed it's own lore rich universe and having this diversity is probably for the better.

[@InterpolBulliedMe]

There's a good diablo like game n there's also pretty good turn based games

[@WintersFinalstand]

@@InterpolBulliedMe Man what I wouldn't give for less turn based games.

[@WintersFinalstand]

@richtea78 Inquisitor martyr and prophecy are the only ones of that kind to my knowledge.

[@JanneKeller]

"I asked my opponent if I'm allowed to do that. And I tell myself that's fine." Killed me. xD

[@sendicard]

I was genuinely more invested in the 40K battle you were doing than the gameplay and my biggest disappointment was not getting to see that finish. Too bad about this game, it looks fun. Or, looks like it coulda been fun.

[@darksaiyan2006]

I guess him not finishing the 40k battle was a metaphor for the game not being finished and being abandoned too.

[@Haexxchen]

Yeahh, If you want to play alone, play Space Marine and get some ork action. If you want to play with friends Space Hulk is the way ro go in my opinion. Got the music, the sinister atmosphere, the sounds and I think the weapons feel great. (Just the wait to rejoin your group bugs me.)

[@Bagheera2]

Same here

[@gingermcgingin4106]

@Haexxchen Planetside 2 is pretty much what this game is trying to be, which is funny seeing as PS 2 is like a decade old.

[@creativedegree]

I remember people paying $100 and more and then getting banned on steam forums. shit was crazy man

[@hg1651]

It’s sad. I invested so much when this project launched. *a few years later* oh nice I helped make a failed mmo 3rd person shooter.

[@burgertim7878]

Developers promised a ton and delivered nothing. Played it since early access and the game progressed so little since. Mediocre, broken lobby shooter nobody plays anymore. It never ran very good either. Got banned from their Steam page when I called them out on it.

[@Pekopekope]

This is why you don't back a project until it shows you what you're going to play. Exanima is a perfect example of a game worth backing, you got what was on the tin.

[@MrSkills123]

I was really hyped for this when I heard about it, got in some sort of alpha and un-installed shortly after. they needed Massive amounts of money to make a 40k MMO and i knew this wasn't going to happen. What i wanted was WOW but in the 40k world.

[@BuckRodgers3]

@@MrSkills123 Those first trailers showing fighting on a massive battlefield under the legs of wandering titans had me mad with hype, hell I would have been happy with Space Marine with some rpg elements but they shot for the moon and missed as horribly as possible.

[@Khorzho]

😥 - I hate it for you bro.

[@Movie_Games]

Oh my god, this game. I kickstarted it because they promised it would be like Warhammer meets Planetside. They gave up 1/3 of the way through and released this garbage.

[@cath6851]

Miguel and his Pico servers anyone?...

[@Sniperbear13]

well that can explain why there are tanks and such in the game.

[@TheOblomoff]

I mean, same. But - I don't regret it. Sometimes you just have to support the dream monetarily, and sometimes that dream doesn't get realized. They uhh, tried.

[@eduardhegyi]

Planetside is a great game.

[@garretthaslam3869]

God I remember wanting to get into the RP community so badly but it just tanked

[@TheFriendlyFoxyChannel]

For clarity, they originally planned for this game to be this massive open world shooter, something akin to Planetside 2. However, from what I recall, they changed dev leads part way through the early access development, who then decided to change the engine from Unity to Unreal (or visa versa, can't remember which) and drastically shrank the scope of the whole project, turning it into the lobby shooter it is now. Also, the reason why the walk animation looked a bit janky: everything was mo-capped. Nothing was animated by hand

[@mr.voidroy6869]

That makes sense. The entire garrison and multi fraction battles on maps where you fight for territory in a Neverending war.

[@Ghorum]

I would give a kidney to have a planetside style 40k game

[@thomgizziz]

Motion capture isn't a reason for an animation to look janky... it makes it not look weird. You should really not talk about things you don't understand especially without thinking and instead just going on your dumb feelings.

[@kathrynradonich3982]

​@@thomgizziz Mo-cap looks good when the time and budget is given to clean it up afterwards instead of just thrown in. It isn't a seamless process that many believe it to be.

[@xbon1]

@@kathrynradonich3982 sure bruh, but as lord asmonbald says, it's the developer's problem, not the player's problem. no matter what it is, the dev's messed up and nobody will play this game.

[@joem1480]

I was waiting for Fluffy McCuddle Buttons to be taken

[@historicalhijinks3058]

I was actually genuinely disappointed that it wasn't

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@historicalhijinks3058 It is now

[@snow9906]

"MOAR DAKKA. You can make this deader by biggerifying the gun." Literally the best quotes from this channel

[@Juke-Redlin]

Dude. I've never watched a 40K match. Your narrative is so damn good inwas invested. I'd love to see those, even on random twitch streams or sporadic videos. It was awesome!

[@ericbright1742]

I thought the whole point of the 40k universe was that even the poster boy, the insanely overpowered and durable Space Marine, can (and will) get absolutely shredded by something equally as insanely overpowered.

[@synterlu]

Yeah I don't agree with Josh' points at the end. Sure, the game gave him the firepower and armour of a space marine, but it clearly didn't give him the tactical prowess.

[@cenciende9401]

A basic fodder tier tyranid is not equally insanely overpowered as an angle of death warrior among men. Were you not paying attention? To see it done right look at WH40K Boltgun, Chaos Marines are tough to take down as a Space Marine yourself, fodder tier enemies are exploded into chunks in a SINGLE SHOT

[@hateraccoon5686]

All I wanted was Warhammer: Space Marine on a bigger scale. They already ripped the core gameplay loop, all they had to do was improve on it.

[@Scrobes]

I hear you brother. Could possibly look at Planetside 2.

[@Unethical.Dodgson]

@@Scrobes You say that but that was the pitch. It was going to be a bigger Planetside 2 but with space marine style gameplay and PvE tyrannid invasions on some parts of the map. None of that was delivered on.

[@esprit101]

@@Unethical.Dodgson I hate to say it, but that's why I never trust any claims from any devolper/publisher. If I give you money, I want a product in exchange now and I want it to be good now, not later. That attitude has saved me so much money and headaches, you wouldn't believe...

[@alaenoor452]

@@Unethical.Dodgson The Pitch was an open world MMORPG.... Which then became bad version of planetside....which then became a far below average shooter not worth the time of day. I put in a fair bit when it was supposed to be an MMORPG. I felt so lied to when they changed it to a shooter.

[@sicksixgamer2694]

SM multiplayer was awesome. At least in the early days. One of the few online deathmatch games I was actually good at.

[@AunCollective]

The frustrating part about trying to collect and archive MMOs: very loose definitions of "MMO' as well as such a wide range of titles within the genre. Definitely can't base it on Steam categories -- that's for sure.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Yeah, this game started as an mmo in concept, but developed away from it very quickly

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

@@JoshStrifeHayes Hey a year later, and we really want the result of the necrons vs space marines. Please don't leave us hanging for another year.

[@stevesmith1810]

@@NeiasaurusCreations ikr

[@TheChocolatBlanc]

@@NeiasaurusCreations +1

[@roberttres2623]

I love how Josh just got so entertained that he just moved away the Phone timer and honestly I got more entertainment in his narrative and I wanted him to finish the board game.

[@tvctaswegia497]

Never seen an actual battle before. I wanted to see the Necrons win! That playtime though... ew.

[@ldgvh7210]

When watching Josh play a starter box battle is infinitely more entertaining and thrilling then the actual video game they tried to make

[@rinsgravity2007]

I was actually let a bit down when it came back to the video game lmao

[@Eindridi1661]

I'm pretty sure 40k is lowkey the literal afterlife for orks that were good boys, like greenskin valhalla or something

[@capadociaash8003]

Endless hordes of the toughest enemies in the multiverse, it’s an ork dream

[@jeffthemercenary]

@@capadociaash8003 orks the only race who truly are happy in 40k

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@capadociaash8003 I guess being stuck in one of Khorne's eternal battles, where people have to fight to the death against the toughest enemies, then die, get reanimated, rinse and repeat, must be real paradise for an Ork.

[@greeninja5991]

@@Furzkampfbomber that's the story of tuska demon killa

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@greeninja5991 Ha, I completely forgot about this story, thanks for reminding me! He was the Ork guy whose ship got raided by demons during warp travel and who then had so much fun killing them that he and his boyz voluntarily set course to the Eye of Terror, correct?

[@Thesp_The_Thesp]

So this WAS ganna be an mmo. But they ran out of time and funding and so scaled back everything they had half baked. Playing this game on launch was fun for like a few hours. The biggest problem was that defending was WAAAAAY easier than attacking. Regardless of what faction you chose fights basically were exactly the same. Vehicles were also pretty much useless cause - funny enough - you can just hide in buildings and the tanks can't do anything. Funnest part for me was the Ork community - we would all just charge with no sense of strategy spamming "Waaaaargh!" in all/chat Could have been something cool - its a good thing 40k Space Marine still has a player base.

[@gonzalovicente330]

What you say?? Vehicles are necesary to assault. Is right that defend was way easier, but if you put a rino next to a flag, you respawn there, and then the assault was easier, and in that point vehicles are really necesary to find the rino and destroy

[@25angel20]

Well it seems Devs wanted to go with Crowdfunding but Fun Police Games Workshop swoop in and told them no Crowdfunding, because they didn't want to be associated with it. If i remember that reason somewhat of that i read. So devs had to scale down of things they promised, like that mmo aspect, additional chapters until "Gimme ya money!" and promised stuff such as extra vehicles(Land Raiders) and showed stuff like Terminators and Wraith Guard. Then lo and behold couple years later and comes in Cadian officer action figure and Games workshop is fine this time with Crowdfunding

[@Kandiell]

i mean all the problems you just described are the exact same issues that planetside 2 has, except that game is very popular. the real issues were even simpler: super hard to balance shooting vs melee, and the base quality of the game was mediocre at best

[@ScrumPMC]

They could make a fortune off of this game if they just kept working on it. Multiple games and their devs have shown that a game with an initially bad reception can be updated and turned into a real gem.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Out of curiosity, could you name one or two? The only game that comes to my mind and that would fit your description right now is No Man's Sky. Which is _still_ not my cup of tea, but this is more a question of personal taste and preference, this game _really_ has improved massively after what was a terrible, terrible start.

[@bossked1563]

@@Furzkampfbomber FFXIV comes to mind as well, can't forget that one.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@bossked1563 I hear good things about FFIVX anyway. Lots of content, good story, well though off skill system and, most important, quite invested devs with a good connection to a shockingly nice community. I've heard that switching to FFIVX is downright kind of a culture shock for people coming from, let's say WoW. Which in my opinion is because the devs are interested in a friendly community and take care that things are like that.

[@bossked1563]

@@Furzkampfbomber So I've heard. My point was that, according to widespread rumor (i.e. I didn't play it but everyone says so), the game was a dumpster fire when it launched. They literally nuked the world, migrated engines, tried again, and now it's the best thing since sliced bread lol.

[@chrism1518]

That really doesn’t happen. No Man’s Sky and FF14? Two games since the beginning of the medium? Come on.

[@mattyl9299]

watching josh play with his space marines makes me wish there was a vr rts game where you overlook the battlefield and move your units around by waving or pointing your hands

[@macgivor]

There's at least one game like this. I forget what it's called but it was on the oculus store about 2 years ago

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Should be able to do it with Tabletop Simulator.

[@pinky6758]

Hi, I have played Eternal Crusade since Open-Beta. The history of Eternal Crusade is simple: The developers have been lying to the players since Closed-Beta, promising that this and that content would EVENTUALLY come in future updates. About 1 year after release, the players slowly started leaving. Then the developers started making new rounds of promises. About 2 years after release, it became obvious that the studio had no intention of ever adding any new content beyond the game's current state. So even more players left. Nowadays there are literally 2 developers left responsible for the entire game and only enough players for 1 match at a time. Update: They shut down the servers in September 2021, after 5 years. No refunds were offered.

[@zot171]

i was in the closed beta and i remember when i left: the plasma cannon (though not the plasma gun) went from shot/charge/overcharge to just shot/charge and without my stupid silly artillery cannon i lost all interest

[@no-bark4112]

i know this reply is 2 years late, but.. you really expected a refund 5 years after a game came out? that does not seem reasonablt at all lmao

[@MrClassicor]

This one still hurts... the game was actually fun when players were active, too bad it was never finished

[@Kryos]

I played in one of the very first alpha/founder versions of the game, and when I tried to critique the poor performance by giving honest feedback and my PC specs, one of the devs called me a retard, and the fanboys in denial backed him up. That was the point at which I cut my ties with the game (and also raised it whith their HR but I doubt anything came of it). I had nothing but the smuggest of smiles watching this train wreck happen and the fanboys slowly realising they were defending garbage.

[@gingermcgingin4106]

You give those fanboys too much credit

[@justdrop]

@@gingermcgingin4106 Truth. Every iteration of Blood Bowl has been a mess and there's still some who defend it.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And it was a technical thing, not something about lore or balancing.

[@dakotashroom5401]

They did a perfect job with the rock models. The graphics on the rocks are perfect. They look like photographs of actual rocks! I'm definitely amazed at how good the rocks look in this game.

[@k_ir3868]

I like rocks

[@spiner9099]

Did I hear a rock and stone? @@k_ir3868

[@Sakarbik]

I remember the good ol' times. Way back then you could hop into the garrison and find people dueling in the arena trying to improve their skills, chatting and having fun. Playing with orks was a blast, everyone roleplaying and speaking like orks, but not in a serious, roleplay-or-bust way, just for fun and jiggles. This game had the potential to be great, but went down the toilet so goddamned fast

[@slevinchannel7589]

The whole video reminded me of Teamtanks, one of the best MMO's i ever knew.

[@MisterFoxton]

One fellow actually spoke to me and spent an hour teaching me the melee system in the game. It really opened the game up and made combat so fun playing the rock paper scissors melee combat that could turn a shootout into a really engaging knife fight. Plus it was satisfying to see someone jump pack in, get stunned and killed immediately by a lascannon being used as a dueling foil.

[@StarboyXL9]

Everyone spontaneously speaking like Orks in the Ork faction is the Orkiest thing I've heard.

[@noisegavot9473]

God yes! The Ork boys at the end of the match shouting Waaaaagh and firing their guns in the air!

[@Khornecussion]

I still play Eternal Crusade today. Hi, I'm Brother Coryx. Usually I find that there's members on the game around 2 P.M CST and if the games are " good trades " where people aren't just all winning. ( Sometimes loyalists stomp chaos into the dirt, other times chaos uses nothing but autocannons and jump troopers called Raptors to butcher everybody if their " pro " melee players are on. I'm one of the few loyalist players that actually gets into melee with those guys - but the only reason I win is I have a Duelist's Blade. Literally a sword that hits as hard as normal, but far faster than any other melee weapon. Even your combat knife. But the good part is that sometimes the community will set up times to join in and play a 40vs.40 match. Just have to keep your eye on the forums. Honestly, I enjoy this game quite a bit just for what it is. A decent third person shooter that lets you make your own astartes, eldar or ork's story. Also, you really hit me in the feels bringing up Eldar being forgotten. ... We need new Craftworld Eldar models so damn bad and we're just getting Primaris Intercessors and LTs. But later on in this game, you can actually unlock VETERANS. I currently only have Veteran Apothecary and then the veteran class most of the community remembers me for, Tactical where you literally have so much extra armor you can solo fight a few of the chaos melee players with just your combat knife ( If you're using thrice-blessed, which makes it more durable. It's an unlockable, though.) Now, your armor sucks so bad because of them offering you literally no " toughness " early on. Toughness is just a raw damage absorption stat that knocks enemy damage down, like standard armor would have if the game was an MMO. Horde mode is the best way to make credits quickly and then you can make yourself quite a bit of credits just for getting to waves 5 through ten. ( There's also safe spots on just about every map that guarantees you make it to wave 10 at the very least if you know what you're doing. Basically if you can climb atop it and keep inside a corner, it means you can farm the nids. The game used to have horrible hitboxes in 'nid Horde mode, but thankfully they did release a small patch and the active community of around 200 players still enjoy it. We just only play around 2:00ish PM CST to sometimes 12 at night. You can finish it solo, but it's better to add somebody on Steam you perform okay with and ask them if they'll play Horde mode with you. It's fairly easy to make friends on there, but we do have like two toxic players that think they're hot shit, just like in any other MMO.) Lair on the otherhand is all about having an Apothecary with you, a few tacticals and maybe ONE heavy unit with a grav cannon to rip apart large tyranids that assault you later down the line as a final boss rush. There's some that have a few Also, you tried to make an Alpharius. Literally everybody has an Alpharius variant. My guy is Zetarius. Warhammer 40K Space Marine doesn't have it's multiplayer mode anymore, or I would be playing that honestly. You just have to be on the servers at the right time, to be short. While watching this video, I logged on at around 11:30 in the morning. There was around 43, possibly 45 players because 20 vs. 20 was going on and each side had 2 and sometimes 3 people waiting to get into the match in case someone ragequit. ( Never will understand why people ragequit in that game. It's an abandoned game that a few people who like Warhammer and have no decent outlet left to enjoy it that isn't an RTS play. They act like if they get good enough they'll be pulled into E-sports. ... We all know you're not gonna get into anything Warhammer 40K EC in terms of E-sports. Maybe a local, low stakes tournament because I know the local game store in my city tells people about the game so that NA servers get a few newbloods on occasion. ) UPDATE: The game is officially dead, folks. It's servers are being shutdown. September 10th. They're hosting a tournament style thing as a sort of...goodbye for it right now to see which faction can get the most victories to earn a little kinda " Forget me not. " from the devs. Basically a model thing for your shoulderplate. Special emblem that every member of the winning faction will get. Though, I think with servers going down all you'll be able to do with this is play single player Horde mode... not sure yet.

[@Superschokokeks]

"Warhammer 40K Space Marine doesn't have it's multiplayer mode anymore" really? oh no.. while it had its issues I enjoyed PvP and PvE once in a while. Especially PvE

[@benoliver5593]

LIES BROTHER theres still multiplayer on Space Marine and

[@eliphas_vlka]

Well people ragequit probably because i you sayd eternal crusade have its own core group of player, who play from a lot of time Its like playing an mmo where the only players are a group with mega armors and ultrasuper swords... and you are naked with only a wooden sword

[@Khornecussion]

@@eliphas_vlka I joined LATE into Eternal Crusade when there was only like around 400ish players left and all of them had at least Relic armor and plasma weapons, so... I know that pain and it's not difficult to get through considering you can go on a tear with just a standard bolter. Bolters are arguably the best option in most cases over plasma rifles, storm bolters and grav guns.

[@panzerfaustdale5537]

i played chaos when the games has it's peak we played on discord call eye of terror and there were like 5 major chaos guild playing in it with clan wars and all good times

[@dasnomaden]

The dying fast isnt universal. I got the drop on a higher level player and emptied a full magazine point blank into his spine. He turned around and shot me twice and I was done

[@user-pb2mn7go2p]

My favorite type of games.

[@ZorotheGallade]

Aw, I wanted to see how the tabletop battle ended.

[@StrayVertex]

Followed this back when the ambition was to make a Planetside 2 scale type of game, a MMO3rdPS. It was pretty clear from the outset that they'd never pull it off. But wishful thinking and all that. Over the following months/years the project got more and more gimped and I completely lost interest. Sad really, It's a genre I'd love to see more of!

[@komiks42]

This game might be amazing if it had planetside 2 scale

[@Crypted112]

@@komiks42 yea it's a shame because I can easily imagine this game with more polish, less microtransactions and maybe a bit more depth with the scale of planetside being amazing

[@tonyaxis3063]

The stuttering is due to incompatible settings with your graphics drivers, you have to change stuff in the control panel to get rid of it.

[@sleepydruid100]

I love to remind people of that one NEcron Dynasty full of Scholars that has a funtioning map that shows the whole galaxy in real time, where they could erase a planet from that map and the planet (or star or ship) would just sease to exist in reality xD

[@Vadnarr]

“The worst part is the not action” really hit my funny bone 😂

[@CupCakeUnleashed]

RIP EC. I remember when this was first announced, sat through the garbage that was the development and bought a founders pack before release... I wish I hadnt

[@ProblmSolvd]

Ahhhh! I miss watching 40k tabletop, I used to watch a lot of Battle Reports, they were always hours long and I loved it. I should start watching them again.

[@camerongunter6232]

If time is an issue, Play on Tabletop has 40 minute long videos that are very entertaining!

[@lctaylor6]

Check out Midwinter Minis. His channel is mainly about painting, but he has some nice battle reports that are only a half hour long and interesting.

[@Ch4pp13]

Some lighthearted fun can also be found at Dicecheck. The Battle Reports are long, but you don't feel like an hour has passed.

[@mercurywow3073]

I was so extremely excited when they first announced this game with a great 40k short story on the website and huge plans of a vast MMO world with constant faction battles, as soon as it stripped back to a regular third person shooter without any of the grand things that got me excited I forgot about it. I still hope we get a grand 40k mmo like the one that everyone was hyped up for someday, in a different game.

[@mercurywow3073]

Also the tabletop section finally made me understand why the health stat in Warhammer Online was named Wounds.

[@kha4911]

I actually played this a little while ago, on the days when some discord groups had gathered to play and there was a decent player count for a while. It was kinda neat, finally unlocked the doom bolt for my sorcerer. But what I was reminded about is how god awful the melee classes are, you forego a good ranged option, either taking a weak sidearm or a shield with you, for a good melee weapon to increase your odds in melee combat, or that's the idea at least. In reality, the melee combat is a game of rock paper scissors where your opponent (who is very likely a gunner that you had to go through a LOT of trouble to reach) can just cheat and start shooting you if you ever either draw or lose in rock paper scissors. So as a melee combatant you often have to run out of a good defensive position, leaving yourself completely open to get shot at, in order to reach someone who has better odds of beating you, both at range and in melee, who is also most likely surrounded by their allies who will turn you to swiss cheese or slice you to ribbons the moment you land your first hit. Getting a melee killing spree feels great though, not because it's particularly impressive, but because it's like getting a glass of water to drink after going three days without any.

[@raymiller315]

Best battle report in a video game review ever! I'd forgotten that this game was due to come out and having bought a new PC recently thought I'd look into it and see if it was any good. Looks like you've saved me a hell of a lot of time. Or, stopped me from painting some minis again. :D

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Paint your minis!

[@Gr_ywind]

Maniacal excitement followed by plummeting depression... This game in a nutshell.

[@BushBumperBaker]

To be fair, that's on brand for the feeling this universe is supposed to give you. ;P

[@Seedmember]

I remember watching a stream with one of the writers for Eternal Crusade, who had written stuff for Secret World. That MMO was praised for its story, so I thought "maybe there's something good here". Soon after I heard he left the team. Too bad it all went downhill. Were they too ambitious? Did they mismanage their money? Was it a scam from the beginning? The certain thing is that it's another failed project with the WH40K logo on it, because GW gives away licences willy nilly.

[@fjshdf]

I'm sad how they killed Orks by nerfing everything good we had. That's what caused me to stop playing. Well, that and the queue times. When I had quit there were still games running, but only Space Marine vs. Chaos.

[@MasticinaAkicta]

I heard of this game before... WAIT. Total Biscuit talked about this, yes... men that is long ago. Just shows you how quickly a player base can fall off.

[@neilgooge]

“I go with ultramarines because I’m a filthy casual” :D Made me chuckle. This game was such a shame, do you not know the history with dev teams and what happened? There’s a reason what was once touted as planetside 2 in the 40k universe, ended up being this. Imagine this... as planetside 2. It’s why it feels like planetside (kind of) without the relatively refined controls and design of planetside. This needed to be more arcade and less tactical, because for all its grim dark, the nature of 40k is more arcade, due to survivability and insane weapons. Even now planetside 2 can be an awesome experience, even with such a small player base, and this was meant to be similar... Such a shame. Oddly enough planetside is considered an MMO as well... but then MMO does stand for the massively multiplayer online... part of an MMO RPG. So technically they are MMOs they don’t need the RPG questing part of Warcraft as they’re not MMO RPGs. They are MMOs, they’re not MMO RPGs. There is a difference, but you, like myself, just come from a time where the only “MMO” was an MMORPG, but those times have changed. So Warcraft isn’t just an MMO, it’s an MMORPG and technically always was, it just got short handed... I really struggled to accept this for a while too ;) So... fortnight, planetside, this... they are MMOs.... just not... MMORPGs and they rarely claim to be... okay, I’ll stop repeating myself :D And I love that this video just turns in to a mini batrep:D Great video....:D

[@dandan3045]

We really need another Space Marine game. I remember seeing TB’s reaction when he first played it. Good times.

[@neiloch]

A proper 40k MMO with lots of PvE content set up as a third person shooter would bankrupt me

[@DrakeHunter324]

Request granted. Space Marine 2 is coming.

[@marystone860]

@@DrakeHunter324 But, the lead Space Marine isn't being voiced by Mark Strong!

[@Chadnvaldr]

The God Emperor has heard our prayers!!!

[@derpro8125]

It looks like it's gonna be more of the same.

[@biggumstevens1784]

I am one of those fools that preordered this game for 130 bucks and played it for 10 minutes and hated it. Never felt so foolish in my life, never made the same mistake twice either.

[@clusterfox6143]

I had some good times with this game in the early days, when there were still players. The developers said they wanted to make it planetside 2 in the warhammer universe, but failed to deliver.

[@MrTsiolkovsky]

Jeez, this makes Deathwing look ultra polished.

[@alexreilly6121]

So there I was polishing Deathwings armour one day..... Bow chika wowwowwwww

[@sideshowmo653]

I think many many many years ago this started as an actual MMO that was "advertised". Early adopters were sought and people invested in the game development by buying it early. I paid £100 or so and got a few emails saying that the game was "progressing". Then... Nothing. I literally forgot about the game and didn't think back about this until I saw Eternal Crusade being touted. So, I think it was supposed to be an MMO, it just enter got there.

[@nightfire734]

This game wasn't "good" by any standard, but the community really made it worth. Especially if you were in a guild. Spent hundreds of hours socializing on here.

[@sigrskydle4387]

This game was really amazing, i would say the most immersive i have ever played and i have played a lot of games. Yes i was a real wh40k fan back then. When there were still enough players to play citadel battles... oh dude, they were just fantastic. By the Golden Throne, the developers must have been seduced by dark gods! TRRRAITORRRRRS!!!

[@CarrionMaw]

I'm genuinely surprised that the game is still online, to be honest. I dumped around $200AUD in its preorder phase and got into the hype HARD. And then I just got let down time after time, and Behaviour just fucked everyone over so many times. It's stuck in a cycle where, if more people played, they would probably put more time into it, but more people won't play until they put more time into it.

[@zot171]

i also dumped in cash and ive even got an email chain where they admit they dont have a way to continue my subscription (you know, where i reliably donate money every month) but the final nail in the coffin was when they nerfed the plasma cannon. emperor i loved that thing...

[@mythicaldakka]

Also, I feel your pain on the whole Alpharius thing. I was actually able to score the name when Alpha Legion first released. Then character resets happened and I was never able to get the name back.

[@TuffMelon]

I always felt it'd have really been cool if they'd taken the 40k universe and turned it into a game with the scale of the Planetside games. How badass would it be to have the Planetside hours long stalemates over a huge location, but in 40k setting.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

If only they didn't make a big turn halfway through development and stayed with the large scale persistant war idea.

[@Tport712]

I saw this game a long time ago. It is very disappointing how it has turned out. Started getting into Vermintide recently and I remembered this game should have existed and was like where is it?. This game had the potential to be a Star Wars Battlefront in Warhammer 40k universe and the design and art and modeling is there to a fucking point. It seems like the game was made by fans and artists that love the universe but not by people who know how to make a good video game. I wish every company had the funding of CoD or WoW and could make these games culminate into the perfect vision they had.

[@Br4Ker]

good game, bad promises, no mmo.

[@Hachiae]

More 40k table top, i have been starting to pick it up and the way you explained your choices and how everything was playing out waa crazy helpful to wrap my headaround the gameplay

[@abeljames3660]

It's awful what happened to this game. Personally I've enjoyed my time with it but it's got so little to do and so little content that you'll just get sick of it

[@Gothicpolar]

I just found your channel a few days ago and wanted to say that you seem like a very chill dude! Love your videos (especially Otherland!)

[@dmj271095]

I was kinda sad that the game actually loaded, i wanted him to finish the tabletop game

[@mut1565]

It can’t be understated how much the 40k community was looking forward to this like we have all been begging the company that produces 40k (games workshop) to make a 40k mmo and we all thought that eternal crusade would be it instead all we got was disappointment like it’s almost a joke at this point with how bleak things are for the 40k community (the flop of eternal crusade is just one of many disappointments) and just how ironically well it parallels the bleak lore of 40k.

[@jammcjamster1791]

If only more people played this game. It isn't perfect but I personally love the gameplay

[@TotallyNoCat]

I'm downloading it now

[@ordelian7795]

The makers failed to meet promises. There's no Hero characters which they said would come. Free to Play mode as Orkz came way too late considering it was to be a selling point. Demo not having Orkz to play was a fail on advertisement.

[@enigmatic8771]

@@ordelian7795 there are hero characters

[@enigmatic8771]

@@ordelian7795 wish they made it open world and put more time into it ::(

[@daudl5011]

It’s pretty much Spacemarine(video game) multiplayer... exact same graphics, mechanics, animations, gameplay.

[@luisvilca4467]

If you want to play this game, dont. Just play Warhammer 40k: Space Marine. Practially same game except is quite good has a nice single player experience and a surprinsgly alive Comunity playing Multiplayer matches

[@PsychoticSorcerer666]

Space Marine doesn't have vehicles, and you can't play as Orks or Eldar. Not saying EC was well-made, but Space Marine's community isn't really bustling.

[@TrippinAlpaca]

WH40K:SP is deader than sia's career

[@brotherwulfgar]

Look into Planetside 2… that’s what a warhammer game should play like. A Warhammer space marine shooter should be an MMO with multiple factions, with everyone being thrown into the same server, always fighting, the war never ends. The battle is fluid, the gunplay is satisfying, and the recoil kicks so fuckin hard it’s almost tangible

[@yeturs69420]

I wouldn't lick my brushes. The chances of toxic paints are too high. I read about the radium girls when I was young lol

[@indrickboreale7381]

16:36 when a space bug of death solo an Astartes enchanted with chaos gods' power: It's just named Hormagaunt, everything is fine

[@vaithwhy]

"We are proud of all of the work that went into Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade, and for the amazing community that rallied behind the game. Thank you for everything, we appreciate all of your support through the years." Its btw their secound Game that they abbadoned and maked worse.

[@hereandnow3156]

Ah I remember this game. It was actually a lot of fun when you first started playing it. After a few hours the shine wore off and you realized it was extremely barebones. It's such a shame this game was bungled like it was. It had pretty good potential.

[@derekstiles5801]

I just don’t understand. Here’s how I see it if you’re developing a game for Warhammer: 1. Wide variety of characters and factions - Check 2. Rich lore where no one gives a shit if you get it wrong since THEY get it wrong constantly - Check 3. Overly described weapons and accessories with pictures - Check 4. Both picture and descriptions of thousands of regions to play in - Check There’s so many more things but Jesus, what other universe gives you so much to work with? They almost never make a playable fun game. It’s just unbelievable.

[@ericmatthews4245]

Dude, I would totally watch you playing a Warhammer game narrated, so I can follow the action!

[@joem1480]

There's a lot of things that Steve advertises as MMOs that's only very passing resemblance to MMO

[@SamuraiHonor]

Originally it was gonna be one. But they turned it into a 3rd person shooter. With a decent size team, but nothing too massive. It wasnt too bad to play for a good few dozen hours back in the day ^^

[@stephenchurch1784]

Even before the recent glow up GW never forgot about the eldar. Eldar come out of nowhere, avatar of khaine gets summoned, hero heroically kills avatar of khaine is Dan Abnett's "I already wrote the climax but I'm three pages and ten murders short of my contract" standby it seems

[@LeetMasterAce]

"Legends and myths paint you as an almost unkillable angel of death." Legends and Myths. Totalitarian regimes rely on legends and myths.

[@aguyhere7945]

It hit me after I watched the video, but why didn't they fill the empty player slots in the missions with bots? Isn't that fairly standard practice in squad based games?

[@AsikoTFC]

"We will not give up." The servers are getting shut down. lol

[@nexofury4979]

i really want just a full video of him playing the board game with his commentary and information

[@VernulaUtUmbra]

I remember playing this game with my brother, we had a ton of fun with it.... up until we realized you could buy power by accessing a sort of "Premium Class" type of thing; you'd get more health and such per game if you upgraded yourself to a Nob or similar. I was quite fond of it before then, as my brother would pocket heal me while I took a heavy bolter into the opposition, suppressing them and never dying due to having the Mark of Nurgle. The Orks even had a Waaagh ability that they would instantly die/revive during the end game which made defending with them on a ticket system an automatic loss, and of course the Ork players would speak in character to the annoyance of everyone else. Game was fun up until you ran into entire sides using the upgrades.

[@Vaerlayn]

I absolutely loved this game, sure, it never lived up to it's promise, but god the gameplay felt *good*, at least, when you could get in matches. Though sadly, BEhavior dropped this game so hard they don't even list it on their website. Dead by Daylight helped ensure this game would never see the light of day ever again for anything beyond them keeping up the servers for some strange reason. It's also to be noted that the guns are not this inaccurate, you just hadn't been aiming throughout heh.

[@zot171]

this guy has a point. i always remap everything, so i noticed that ADS was on CTRL for some stupid reason and put it back on RMB. remapped melee to a side button and had some funsies

[@dukeofnylon]

I still play this game from time to time, it fun when you have full teams but yeah the devs skipped town long ago. What funny/sad is that if you check the Space Marine game by Sega , it multiplayer is probably more active than this one and plays about the same just with smaller maps.

[@Ancestral_Atom]

Mr Strife Hayes, if you ever decide to stream/upload videos of tabletop Warhammer like this, we would all turn up! Also, thanks for all your amazing commentary, your voice is a thing of legend to be sure.

[@nilshansen7523]

Great battle reportand painting tutorial! Only the strange loading bar at the top was a bit irritating.

[@ItsBoyRed]

Before they released the game they promised to have a f2p plan, where the free players would only be able to play orc characters

[@ravenknight4876]

Nice.

[@LordProteus]

The Death Battle fanboyism for 40K was a bit cringe. Do Marvel Comics or Detective Comics count as a Sci-Fi setting? Because either one of those would take out the 40K universe. Or is comic book shit cheating?

[@darksidegryphon5393]

"Or is comic book shit cheating?" Well, yes, but actually, maybe not.

[@dougla517]

I feel cheated that we didn't get to see the conclusion of the table top battle.

[@Getorix]

As a hardcore Warhammer fan and a big MMO fan.....how the fuck did I not even hear about this game?

[@mercster]

Haha "Well I say it's full of people, there are like... four."

[@Revix773]

Sooo did your Necrons or Space marines win? Sorry was totally more invested in that then the “mmo” lol

[@ssfbob456]

Josh: The Warhammer universe always wins Xeeleeverse: We built a halo ring using galaxies as building material, weaponized time travel, and the humans, the weakest race, fought so hard once the color of the glaxay changed.

[@t.mcgarry4]

The real heresy in this video is Josh painting straight from the pot and not thinning his paints ;)

[@gonkdroid6364]

I just wish more than 30 people played

[@Jinisinsane]

That time when those plasma cannons were OP af back then

[@Comedymakesmelaugh7]

And now the servers for the game are completely going offline. Absolute waste of an opportunity, this game was.

[@madphantompixels6478]

They never went all in on it they bottled it and cheaped out, went from being an mmo to an arena shooter, which is why nobody gives a shit about it. In fact it's shutting down in September of this year, that's how badly they botched this.

[@solaryon8711]

Hey. EC Founder here. I followed and played the game since it's early development. I played as soon as early access launched and followed most of the podcasts from the developers. I'd definitely agree with most of your major grievances. It's definitely not an MMO in its current state whatsoever. During early development the game was fully intended to be an open-world MMO battle game, similar to Planetside 2. Over the course of its development, more and more features were cut back until you have what you see today. I thought it'd be interesting to give some insight into its current state with relation to what it was and what it was meant to be: 1) The tutorial and PvE in general - The PvE in the game (especially the tutorial) was honestly a bit of an afterthought. Of course it was meant to be more, but it arrived extremely late in the game's development when the team was already reduced and features had been cut significantly. The PvE mode was originally balanced to the 4-man squad. The scaling to lower team sizes only came in later, but it wasn't implemented too well. The PvE mode is generally not soloable, and it was never intended to be. It was very challenging even as a 4-man squad. You needed to play very close to your team to ensure they could help defend and revive you when needed. 2) Melee - This is a problem with the tutorial not teaching you, but you can lock on and use defensive options in melee. Melee was a rock-paper-scissors interaction. There is light attack, heavy attack and a "defensive bash". Each move beats another in the triangle. When you become reasonably competent in the melee, you can generally beat opponents more often than not. An enemy can't just approach you and easily kill you with a few knife hits. There was also a break mechanic, where if you ran out of guard meter you would be unable to defend yourself. Heavier slower weapons (that were worse at chasing down fast targets and easier to shoot at) had the edge in a melee vs melee. The PvE with tyranids is absolutely not balanced to this system at all. The tyranids can freely attack you regardless of what you do. You can use the defensive move to protect yourself briefly, but its not that useful. Melee is generally quite poor in PVE unless you use a storm shield. An experienced assault marine with a tough loadout was sometimes able to perform hit-and-run style tactics against the little nids, but it was very risky and required a lot of experience. 3) Garrison - The garrison is a shadow of what was meant to be. The garrison idea was where guilds were supposed to have their own personalized bases and ships. We were promised small sections of battle barges where we could gather with guild mates and plan our activities. Of course, this did not happen. Their budget clearly ran out before they got anywhere near what this was meant to be. The garrison you see now was just the bare bones example of what it might be like to gather with other members of your faction, which they later used to put the servo skulls in to give people some additional instructions in the game (since experienced players stomping new players was a serious problem). 4) Queue times - The queues are obviously terrible, but there was a time where this was not the case. At its peak, you were able to find games within seconds. In addition, you currently never get to see the large fortress map battles. These were enormous 40 man battles with tanks and siege. These types of maps frequently filled up at the game's peak times. They were quite an exciting experience to begin with, but after a while people got tired of certain elements to them and they included the option to avoid large maps in queues. 6) P2W - The game definitely was not pay to win. This was something the developers stood against, and repeatedly expressed that they would not include. The weapon purchases are effectively cosmetic, because you can unlock the weapon types with their default skins by playing the game and opening the loot boxes (that are earned only by playing). The cash shop weapons are not any more powerful so you are basically just paying to unlock a weapon type immediately rather than waiting, and gaining a unique skin on top of that. Some of them are unique, but they possess both strengths and weaknesses. The monetization as far as weapons go is "pay to skip" and "pay to look cool". The fact that Eldar are locked behind a paywall now is pretty crappy. The game was originally pay for early access, then it shifted to a free-to-play model where certain features were locked behind a premium wall. Founders automatically received these unlocks. This made sense at the time when the game was more lively, as they needed some sort of income besides the extremely limited cosmetic options. It makes no sense now that the game is dead. 7) "TTK" or time to kill was a very very heavily debated subject throughout EC's development. It shifted back and forth constantly, but most people leaned towards sharing your opinion. The time to kill is extremely short for the default marine. You can unlock equipment that makes you tougher and more durable. Certain loadouts are extremely durable, such as nurgle marines and devastators with iron halo. The problem was that the RPS melee system slows down combat too much compared to gunfire. It can take you up of 8 or 10 seconds to kill an experienced player in melee, but his friends can gun you down in 3 to 4 seconds while you're stuck in the melee clashing animations. They had extreme trouble balancing the gunplay with the melee system as it was, but it was balanced to people who had fully fleshed-out loadouts rather than the default loadout (which exacerbated the problem with new players getting stomped).

[@Korzacks2nd]

@Josh Strife Hayes, this is a good review of the current state of EC, its community, and the ghost status of BE who abandoned this title instead of pursuing joining the various elements together into a semblance of what was the last promise they made, which was to combine several maps together into a larger territory warfare mode with the garrison replacing that lobby. What you really missed though was the incredible experience this game had when it launched. It had over five thousand players at launch. You'd see full lobbies at all hours of the day, and the map sizes ranged from 15v15 to 30v30 fortress siege maps. The modes themselves barely changed, but the idea was that each map was going to offer something greater to the overall strategic layer of the game. I had a very privileged experience of running MYST for many years and taking the Eldar from laughable to the meme of "Eldar OP" with the hope that one day we'd be able to claim territory and remain a competent force. The Organized, not competitive play experience was second to none. The competitive nature of the community was toxic in virtually every regard, which in itself was a point of review since we weren't really fighting for anything tangible in game, yet it became a meta itself outside the game. Like the houses of Dune, the Devs failed to capture that feud in game so the community self organized around it anyway. We've got guys that lead major outfits in PS2, and guild leaders from WoW and WAR, and all of them agreed this game was something next level. What EC offered was the ability to put your tactical and strategic mind from the table top game into a real time experience that scaled from the individual to the whole team. Every faction has something unique to offer in this regard, from the basics of flanking with Assault Classes, laying down suppression with Heavies, or running move and cover with Tacticals, each faction layered their flavor on top of it that cannot be replicated by other games out there. Organized play. That's where the strength of this game lies, and it's impossible to review since for the most part that scene has been dead for years. There's a handful of groups that continue, but none of them are that regular and they barely see each other anymore. If you're interested in MYST's community, I welcome you to join our discord. Same with anyone else interested. We have plenty more to talk about and projects we're working on: discord.com/invite/tzAhTCQ

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Every fan of every game i review always tells me how great they were. I will need to review some more but, i honestly believe if all these games were as great as people always claim, they'd still be successful.

[@Korzacks2nd]

@@JoshStrifeHayes Well, the counterpoint to this was that not everyone was organized, nor should they have been. Vanilla WoW is a good example of catering to both organized and solo play. EC can be very difficult to play solo and the devs did not make it a serious point to cater to solo players. This is especially apperent in the large battles where dozens throw themselves at the walls and just die repeatedly. But from an organized standpoint, it's a vastly different experience, more akin to an RTS.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

@@Korzacks2nd you're completely right. If do more additional research on this ill make sure to drop you a message as you seem to have the knowledge :)

[@anthonyvaldes1021]

@@Korzacks2nd Yeah, I remember you. You and the Eldar Clan basically killed this game. Me and countless others would quit the second we had to face Eldar, because it was absolutely no fun facing organized vets in a pub stomp. You were part of the problem.

[@Korzacks2nd]

@@anthonyvaldes1021 Yeah, I understand, but I'm not sorry for organizing. It was very clear in the beginning that this is a team game. The Devs intended on a fully open world with thousands of players much like Planetside. PUG's are very capable of taking on guilds - they just had the culture shock of needing to work together at a higher level than - which, most often the LSM did not do - and they most often quit any game that got tough regardless of opponent. In the beginning there were over 40 active clans, many much larger than MYST. The Eldar at its height had 4 guilds. Most of them were on the LSM, so your experience was actually our experience in the early days - this was especially true in Alpha with just LSM v CSM: LSM were organized and the CSM had really bitter imbalanced fights. When things got balanced out the LSM found that the CSM had become highly organized - most of the Xenos were playing them. We learned to overcome - by working together more effectively than the opponent, and since then the Devs could not effectively strain out organized groups from solo players and the LSM took nearly 4 years to catch up - because solo players that work together are organized groups. It's that simple. it's why the Devs never "fixed" guilds fighting PUGs. The real tragedy was that there was never really a good matchmaking system. Level one's from all factions were pit together against the 6 year veteran guilds all the time. LSM overwhelmingly had the most level ones, and many did not make it to level two. That's the real problem - guilds never should have made contact against low level players - who often didn't know what was going on or how to fight yet, let alone what teamplay was. The knowledge of teamplay is as long as the game's progression system. You can think of it as the Dev's initial vision, how WoW is organized - higher level players have little reason to be in the low level zones - it's like hosting a Raid in a level 10 village. Ganking them is dirty fun - but mostly it's boring, and on the flip side level 10s in a level 60 raid against a team struggling with the same problems or worse, a streamlined stack is headache inducing for everyone. Worse still, most high level solo players chewed out new players for simple mistakes, just like League of Legends, which just served to toxify the community. Without being able to be physically separated, high level players had no choice in who we fought, we got sent to that village regardless, but to fight with low level players, which often were a hindrance if they were on your team, guilds served as competent and respectful teachers that raised the skill floor for their faction. It became imperative to recruit and train them as quickly as possible just to be able to work with them in the future even if they didn't stay in the guilds - LSM again were unwilling for a ridiculous amount of time even as the other 3 races did this for years and it showed. LSM had the absolute worst time out of all the factions playing EC by a very wide margin. The only exception should have been that if you agreed to join a guild, you'd be fighting at whatever skill/experience level they were regardless of what level you were. Bigger teams equals a higher chance to encounter guilds who have the strength to absolutely overwhelm. This is partly due to the fact that the killing ability in this game is not the same as it is in other shooters, assuming every shot lands a headshot, a single clip of the basic weapon can barely kill 3 people before it has to reload. Most shooters that can kill half a team. So numbers make a huge a difference in this game - and there's some significant force multipliers that raise that number back up to COD/BF levels. I don't necessarily think that lone wolves were on the forefront of the Dev's minds - the game is significantly easier to play with just one friend - it becomes a different game entirely when it's 15v15 and everyone's communicating. There's a dizzying array of tactics a single 5 person squad can do with just standard loadouts. Add the variance customization offers and it becomes staggering - to work alone against players who offer the bare minimum of teamplay is just agony. As a last ditch effort the Devs released a map for 5v5, which was only for guilds for some wild reason; probably to solidify that they thought the game was meant to be team orientated rather than a COD clone. I feel like who they released that map to was a mistake. It would have been the perfect opportunity to throw level 1's from every faction, into and then graduate to ever larger maps that require more organization as they gain levels. I think the disparity really comes from the size of the games and the culture of not understanding it's a squad based team game. If level one's went in, and level twos came out with an understanding on how to fight as just a 5 man squad and what to bring to it, EC would be a radically different game today.

[@MadDogVelare]

damn those queuingtimes remind me of the AC:Brotherhood multiplayer when the game launched because the ports where trash for the PS3 to join a lobby and when you joined, you have to wait 20-30 more minutes to get the lobby full to start the game

[@Nightweaver1]

Your enthusiasm for the tabletop segment is really great. Loved the special effects. Better than the actual game you were reviewing.

[@battlemummy007]

Kinda wish the final score was a WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!! / 10