Would Kobe Bryant's Legacy Have Been Better Without Shaq? - Barbershop talk (Episode 22)

[@Dom2K]

No this isn't related to the question I posted to Twitter earlier. That's possibly a different vid. Sponsored by Athleticcases.com Main channel: KZbin.com/dom2k16 Twitch: www.twitch.tv/dom_2k Music from: chernebeats.com Business email: [e-mail] Patreon: patreon.com/dom2k16 Facebook: facebook.com/dom2k16 Twitter: twitter.com/dom_2k Instagram: instagram.com/dom_2k Snapchat: Dom_2k

[@Readeninwheep]

Dom sup my dude how you been doing Ill you in a bit

[@showtimesportsmedia6906]

Shaq was getting older. Idk if you remember when he first got to Miami they didn’t win because Shaq was hurt in moments they needed it. The lakers knew it.

[@Trj_313]

Happy new year

[@Geassed1st]

Dom I appreciate your knowledge

[@thetrib1]

to be fair to you I get what you mean by 6:08 ... Kobe was a great player, but being perfectly honest. i think if you gave shaq any of the top 5 sg with the supporting cast the same, during the kobe shaq era, the results would have been relatively the same. not a shot at kobe, more of a praise to shaq. kinda like when a basically out of his prime lebron teamed up with love and irving. no way in hell you could say irving was better than wade, and love was better than bosh. but yet and still... relative success. I know people love Kobe. He made making tough shots beautiful, like jordan did... but a tough shot is still a tough shot. he was efficient, but so were the other top guards like vince, tracy, Ray, and so on. I believe they all would have gotten 2 at worst, and possibly more than three(kobe ego). in one case you got a glimpse of a similar possiblity.... mcgrady and ming.... but there were too many injuries. in the end you need dominant players to win, which is why i put team success for a player a lot lower than individual succes. you're a great listen!!

[@angels7192]

Hypothetically speaking: Kobe ends up with two rings with gasol. Fan in this reality: Kobe isint that great because he only won two rings Another fan: if you gave Kobe another superstar he would’ve been one of the all time greats What actually happend: Kobe only needed a star to win championships and a superstar to create a dynasty My point: people just love to hate on greatnes

[@schurkenbub7055]

I think it helped him more than it damaged his legacy, because most people look at the rings first, before they look into the context and stats. Also what most people forget is that players don`t win championchips alone. Most great teams had a combination of talent, coaching and frontoffice (for example the 96 Bulls)

[@schurkenbub7055]

@The Duke maybe because he was the face of the nba and is regarded as the greatest of all time. Also he was their best player and people will cherrypick whatever fits their narrative. Happens all the time and in every discussion

[@codyssmith73]

The simple answer to this question is a resounding "no". As much as Kobe was great, you take out Shaq and he doesn't have his 5 rings.

[@jetsettech8804]

@I nut on birds lol yea, ok

[@codyssmith73]

@I nut on birds That's not even possible..... you can't get a half a ring.

[@insertrandomnamehere]

@I nut on birds k

[@Gamingdoc]

You don't know this.

[@VortexVortex2724]

Cody Smith i think he would have atleast 3, probably 4 and up to 6

[@qiushihu9443]

He would be an 2 time champion then. It is like saying Wade's legacy would be better without Lebron

[@clutchmaster0039]

Wade won a championship before LeBron

[@Aceboogie_13]

clutchmaster 21 but that doesn’t mean his legacy would be better he’s a 3 time champion now so we of him in a different light now

[@lildagga2064]

Dman no Wade is and will always be known for his chip before Bron

[@Aceboogie_13]

Lil Dagga did you read what I said obviously he will be remembered for that chip it’s one of the greatest performances ever I said having 2 more rings enhances his legacy

[@asundelgun3487]

@@Aceboogie_13 him winnin those extra two rings did a whole lot of nothing for his legacy because he was the sidekick

[@jomicabrera8905]

No. Same as how Shaq’s legacy would not have been better without Kobe.

[@aizenzae4510]

Agreed.

[@terrohnjackson1368]

True, but I think he still would’ve won at least one championship without shaq

[@ItAintNeko]

Perfectly said

[@sirz11]

Been waiting on this since you asked about it on Twitter!

[@vrishin2262]

Ayyyyy it's u again

[@youngdrizzytv1282]

This nigga is everywhere

[@Ryandupont0896]

Oh god dom dropping heat on the first day of 2019

[@nbabackcourtmedia]

Nah I don’t think so, Shaq was a big part of his legacy because of the three rings they won. He wouldn’t be as high up in the rankings imo. Also In his earlier years when shaq was there he had more room to develop and make mistakes because he had a superstar player to help the team win. He might not have been as great overall because of these two reasons

[@marcoot5040]

AJ The Wright Gamer doubt it he would have been free to dominate the game from a earlier point and I think he would have finished with 4-5 rings no doubt

[@johnnydamns6848]

@@marcoot5040 dominate with no fellow stars = no rings he missed 14000 shots being dominating half of his career if he dominated whole career 20k+

[@marcoot5040]

Johnny Damns that’s a good comment but he the lakers lost shaq for nothing and didn’t have the pieces to acquire talent but if shaq never joined in free agency I’m 100% jerry bus would get Kobe some talent and to carry a franchise and average 35+ being the only scoring option on a team featuring starters such as kwame brown, Smush Parker, Luke Walton , Chris mihm to accomplish the things he did is a wonder in it self especially out west if your not going to bring some valid info back please don’t @ me

[@xcwilliams7980]

The point people are missing is that the 3 year stretch when Kobe couldn't get out the first round is replaced with Kobe being phenomenal surrounded by a team built around his strength and weaknesses. He most def ends up with more MVPs and probably 2 more titles. And one could argue 4 as the absolute best player is better than the 5 he has now.

[@marcoot5040]

Xc Williams true I’m sure dr bus gets kg, c Webb, dirk or some player of the era to play alongside Kobe surround them with good role players and watch the Ws

[@tomboyer3014]

Bro you are deadset the best nba youtuber you make me think about basketball in so many different ways it blows my mind keep up the good work

[@grantrmoore]

Statistically absolutely. Imo if he would of went to college, not played behind Shaq, & retired after the Achilles injury, he would of had better career averages than MJ.. But likely less titles also..

[@4wayy_x363]

He should've retired after the injury cuz he stats would be SOOO better

[@bhavrajpannu8211]

Likely less titles? You mean absolutely less titles? You could add a good scoring guard with shaq and he would win chips, but you can't replace the shaq that was on the lakers.

[@darkinferno1219]

zavier Jackson not really after 17 years his stats were pretty much set those last years barely affected his stats. He also wasn’t gonna pass MJ if he retired after the Achilles injury

[@4wayy_x363]

@@darkinferno1219 Oh yeah i know bro lol. I was just saying that cause i hear people say that all the time as if it really mattered

[@Y2KJake]

@@bhavrajpannu8211 same could be said with kobe add a good big man he'll get his rings work with gasol right could have three peated

[@NiyiDaNinja]

No because 5 rings is his greatest accomplishment. Without those 3 extra rings people wouldn't view him as highly

[@marcoot5040]

Adeniyi Adegbemigun wrong People say he was carried to three and disregard them he would have been viewed more highly most likely the unanimous goat

[@skdog3_385]

marco Ot people would view him lower If he only had two

[@NiyiDaNinja]

​@@marcoot5040 People still use his 5 rings in debates anyways

[@marcoot5040]

Skdog3 _ guaranteed Kobe would have won just as many or more rings if he played with a all star center or pf such as Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett, dirk , or any player of a similar caliber to pau gasol which he beat 3 hall of famers who were also franchise players when separated. Kobe would have came in and developed at a crazy rate like mj and lbj did when given the keys to a franchise

[@marcoot5040]

Adeniyi Adegbemigun but they discount the first three because shaq as dom said in his argument with penny he lost continuously with penny dscott, horris grant , and nick anderson, also mj was retired for one year when they lost to a less talented Houston team where he was outplayed by Hakeem, as well as Kobe stuck all the higher ranking players thru their years thru the playoffs while getting his numbers, shaq on the other hand played players well below his level and dominated them as he should. As far as who would be more successful alone it’s the obvious answer... Kobe. Shaq has played on more talented teams separated from Kobe then Kobe did from him. Shaq played with penny and the magic, after LA he played in Miami with D Wade, after that he played with amare and Nash while he was still a good player and did not win multiple championships, where Kobe played with Kwame brown, smush Parker , vucevic and Lamar Odom was his best teammate. And my last point the man went back to back in the west with wait for it..... Pau Gasol who is a good all star level player but please do not tell me he is a better player then penny hardaway , d wade, or Nash amare..... Kobe would have won 4 or 5 rings without a doubt

[@stephcurry30hs9]

My question is why does it matter...nobody says Mike isnt the GOAT cuz he had pippen.....they are the best duo of all time and shaq and Kobe are up there

[@Chrisp707-]

That's the thing people say about LeBron"he had Wade and Bosh" or " he had Kyrie and Love"

[@BIGJERSEY908]

Foh u know he wouldnt be shit in this league on hierarchy without shaq u kobe d rider

[@antinapay]

A bit unrelated, but the one player I think who can fit any system and make it better is Larry Bird. Durability issues really hampered his effectiveness, but he was a complete player. Even his defense was underrated

[@stivstilianos980]

I couldn ' t agree with you more on that one . He could fit in any system because he was never really ball dominant . He didn ' t need to dribble a lot to be effective , he just always had that one magical touch that was either gonna lead to him scoring or getting an assist , plus he averaged 10 rebounds for his career playing mainly as a SF ! That 's an area in which Larry is way better than Lebron . He can have a similar impact to Lebron in terms of scoring and playmaking without having the ball in hus hands all the time or needing the whole system to revolve around him . I ' d still take Lebron as the greatest SF ever , though , due to his longevity and his physical gifts you simply can ' t teach .

[@antinapay]

@@stivstilianos980 Exactly. Versatility wise, Larry Bird is the most talented player in basketball history. If only he had the durability of Jabbar or Lebron, we could have seen him have a couple more seasons.

[@antinapay]

8:33 a prime shaq would be the most dominant player on any championship team. Nah, larry bird averaged 10 rebounds with robert parish, kevin mchale, bill walton on bench. Couple that with playmaking, shooting, and clutchness, Larry could have a chance against shaq even if they were teammates.

[@stephcurrytheg.o.a.t]

antinapay facts this why I say he the best SF ever

[@infiniteimprovement]

Bird isn't the ONLY one, but yes I agree he def makes any team better because he's very good to elite at every aspect of the game and he doesn't need the ball like most superstars.

[@lildagga2064]

Kobe gets no respect whatsoever

[@6ixGOD6]

Venom Jay LMAO STAY OFF THE WEEEEDDDDD

[@zuffyg4772]

@Venom Jay lmao KD will have a better career than Kobe 😂

[@johnnydamns6848]

@@zuffyg4772 true he can has a good chance

[@johnnydamns6848]

@Venom Jay kobe overrated is what you mean

[@imnotgoodwithnames9847]

Johnny Damns Kobe is not overrated 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@yaboydou92]

Im so happy youre on youtube and not espn the lack of nonsense and bias is refreshing

[@boozbottle]

Absolutely no way kobe would be considered top 10 without the 3 peat which Shaq was the main reason why. By no means am I saying kobe was carried but shaq was on another level on those finals averaging 38,33 and 36 points. Kobe would still be good enough to win a ring "on his own" like 09 and 10, but that puts him with 2 rings and he would sit closer to top 15-20.

[@z4ng3tsu1ch1g0]

Boozbottle Shaq dominated all 3 finals series but he was mortal in all the west playoff series for those 3 years. If the NBA had a Postseason MVP there’s no doubt Kobe would have won 2 out of the 3 years they won the chip.

[@boozbottle]

@@z4ng3tsu1ch1g0 I see where you're coming from but the topic of the video is would kobe legacy be better without shaq and i think its fair to say kobe would have only 2 rings without shaq so no way is his legacy better especially since the only difference in top 20 players is just the amount of accolades

[@justinjones9579]

Boozbottle I don’t think Kobe wins three in a row, but, he would still probably win chips sporadically. Duncan won rings without having them come in runs and no one is saying he isn’t top ten. Kobe owned the 2000s, that’s why he is top ten,. And if he didn’t play with shaq, he wouldn’t have been coached by del Harris who hated him and put him on the bench the first two years, and he still managed to get voted into the all star game, he wouldn’t have been coached by Phil who ran a system that didn’t benefit his game, you’re looking at a guy who could’ve passed Kareem in points, and this is with a minimum of two championships. So to answer the question I think without shaq kobe is a top 3 player of all time

[@JWalkerEnterprise]

@@justinjones9579 kobe didn't own the 2000 they aint start calling him the best in the league until Lakers were trash & he went on his scoring runs between 05-07.

[@justinjones9579]

JC_DubbJr he won 4 titles out of 10 NBA, ESPN, Fox Sports, TNT all had poles and awards in 2010 and all awarded Kobe as the best player of the decade he owned the 2000s and he’s been regarded as the best player in the league since 2001, there is actually a clip where Shaq calls him worlds greatest and he returns and calls him most dominant. Because that is how they were both regarded as. His stretch from 2005-07 was just icing on the cake.

[@bolt7047]

i think its mainly becuase not alot of kids nowadays really watched kobe back then and saw how good he was (i didnt either i started watching around 2009 when the kings got cousins) who didnt see his greatness but from what i saw from when he played and how good he was then you really cant take away his legacy with or without shaq he's a legend no matter what

[@jesseafrika9362]

Cousins was drafted in 2010

[@bolt7047]

Jesse Muni i said around

[@jumpman2326]

Kings 16 Yeah it’s these young dumb people that says all this Lebron stuff but they never watched Kobe when he was young

[@bolt7047]

Trane Crowley agreed if they had watched him they would have know how great he was

[@topnotch3232]

That athletic cases advertisement transition statement was legendary

[@jeffreyespinal4040]

Dom is blessing us with so many videos

[@abstractual9137]

Love the steady content we been getting on this channel ❤️❤️

[@FGAlele]

Very Solid Discussion 👌🏿. 100% Agree with your Points.

[@airstrada]

Love this series man

[@tinolinogaming4250]

Happy new year dom hope you had an amazing time !

[@arbernumani3709]

I love Kobe but no, he wouldnt have a greater legacy without Shaq . He would probably have 3 rings max and he wouldnt have been part of a dominant 3 peat .

[@araszkawibowo4748]

Arber Numani wdym he would only have 2 rings. idk bruh maybe even less. because he had shaq, he had more room to develop and make mistakes bc u literally had the best center in the nba with you. without shaq, he would literally be playing for empty stats bcause the lakers wouldnt be so good and kobe wasnt an all time nba player until the mid 2000s

[@arbernumani3709]

felicia the kambing well he did win 2 ‘by himself’ so im giving him the benefit of the doubt that he would still win those two and probably one more if he had more time ‘having his own team’ . Your points are valid but im not speculating that much , Kobe is top 5 or close to it in my book so I give him the respect he deserves , he earned that

[@tuckerwalker2845]

Arber Numani no he had gasol

[@calvinluciano]

Tucker Walker gasol avg 18 they gave kobe a 18ppg scorer as “help” he won 2 with that & y’all think he would only have 3 or less rings without shaq ? shit give him a kyrie whom avg 27 & 29 in the finals as a sidekick for lebron & put kobe in the east as well he would have damn near 6 or more foh

[@LobsAllDay]

@@calvinluciano lmfao "no he had gasol" wtf I can't stop laughing. what you want Kobe to win with smush Parker and kwame brown? Lebron has yet to win a ring without a dominant perimeter player like wade or Kyrie not to mention all stars like bosh and Kevin love. but ok..

[@deontejackson3044]

Great video Dom keep it up

[@rdtworld9720]

No buys. There is a lot to write about this topic for sure, but two stories stick out that for me does more "damage" to Kobe's legacy and really solidified the 1. Shaq, 2. Kobe dynamic. The first is the start of the 02-03 season. With Shaq on the sideline for the first 12 games, a Kobe-led Lakers team starts 3-9 (5-10 without Shaq all season). Had Kobe been truly 1A, I don't see that kind of drop-off (Shaq makes a point of this in his book as well). Second, you mentioned the "two seasons Kobe had no-one", but, and this somehow always forgotten, but it's three and the first of the three is quite damning for his legacy. Lakers finished 34-48 (28-38 with Bryant, 6-10 without). Bryant's main two teammates, Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, just got finished helping D-Wade make the playoffs in his rookie year, so it wasn't a teammate issue (this was before the horrific Kwame deal). The 04-05 season is the first season with the strict hand check rules (Allen Iverson and Steve Nash both showed just how much that mattered with their 04-05 improvements) and Kobe doesn't get any better. I know you've read Simmons and he's big on the eye test and you've mentioned it as well, but the Shaq-Kobe years is one of the few times the eye test actually doesn't jive with Bryant's actual value (that is, Kobe is 1B as opposed to the best 2nd banana of all-time). That's because from a learning/development perspective, Kobe Bryant had it easier than any other player in his situation (player with GOAT potential). He didn't have to face as many double-teams (which there is video evidence of, but it takes a lot of time to put it together for a constructive argument). He had more space to operate than a T-Mac in Orlando, a LeBron in Cleveland or a MJ in Chicago. He got to develop these elite skills with prime Shaquille O'Neal in the center and that's a massive difference. I've compared it to a super smart college kid with all the potential who has the rich parents and the cozy home as opposed to the same kid who's home is broken. The first kid can make all the mistakes in the world, because if he screws up he can always crash at home and start over (best example, a young Kobe shooting LA out of Games 1 and 2 in the 1998 Western Conference Finals). The other kid screws up and it's over for him, he may never get a 2nd chance to be the GOAT (I mean LeBron's 2007 Finals loss is often held AGAINST him, stupid as that sounds). Yes, Kobe had some incredible games. Yes he was important against Portland in 2000. Yes he closed out some big games against Philly in the Finals. Yes, he played one of the most beautiful playoff games I ever saw (the 48-16 vs. Sacramento). Kobe Bryant was incredible in 2000-2002. But we also more easily forget his deficiencies because he had Shaq. For what it's worth, him being the greatest 2nd banana of all-time only added to his legacy for me. He'd probably float somewhere in the Garnett/Nowitzki tier without them (I have Kobe 10th all-time, in a tier with Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Durant and West).

[@jorgeanta2912]

RDT World 🌎 very well said sir

[@raileysy9663]

RDT World I’ll just add a useless reply because I want to express my views, and I want to put them out without putting the effort to break down what I mean with facts or analysis. I agree with the general arc of what you’re saying but there are some holes imo. Lebron did have a fair amount of spacing for the majority of his time in Cleveland (both stints). Also I wouldn’t expect many tier 1 all time nba players (the mostly universal top 11) to lead that 05 lakers team much further than Kobe did. I appreciate you putting a well thought out opinion out here and I hope many see it because it is certainly worth looking into.

[@rdtworld9720]

@@jorgeanta2912 Ty

[@rdtworld9720]

@@raileysy9663 Ty for reply. The spacing thing is always something that's super hard to argue either way, but I have a big counter to the 05 Lakers piece. I feel like I need to preface this with "this isn't a shot at Kobe". The truth is that a couple years prior, someone with a far worse team did better. In the lone year of 2002-2003, Tracy McGrady was better than Kobe Bryant. You can look at stats and it's clear but let's look past that. McGrady's 03 team went 42-40 with the following as his "supporting cast". This is ranked by minutes. Pat Garrity, 34 year old Darrell Armstrong, Mike Miller (only 49 games), Jacque Vaughn and a washed-up beyond washed-up Shawn Kemp. No one near the ability of a 2005 Lamar Odom or a 2005 Caron Butler. And to clear up two things. The "weak east" argument doesn't hold as the bottom of the West wasn't anything the home about that year, T-Mac's Magic beat the Lakers, Mavericks and T-Wolves during the season (all Western playoff teams). Of course, the playoff roster was worse somehow (players that started more than 1 game with T-Mac for Orlando that year: Gordan Girieck, Andrew DeClerq, Drew Gooden and Jacque Vaughn). We all praise 06 and 07 Kobe for carrying the horrible Lakers vs. the Suns, even taking them to 7 once. But we never talk about T-Mac taking the 2003 Pistons (only missing piece was Rasheed. Ben, Chauncey, Prince Rip all still there and they are a 1 seed) to 7 games, including being up 3-1 at one point (just watch Game 1 and Game 2 and see T-Mac do whatever he wants despite being the only remote go to guy on Orlando. Game 2 is especially sad, with T-Mac making 16 of the Magic's 27 made shots. They made 11 total shots!) This all goes back to the point. Kobe got his clutch playoff chops with big family Shaq always there to clean it up in case he wasn't there. But when it happened to someone like T-Mac and LeBron, it's always a shot at their legacy even if we feel bad they don't have help. As a side, as I don't want to stray too far from the Shaq piece, but the biggest reason I didn't buy the argument is because I knew 2002-2003 Tracy McGrady existed, and I knew 2004-2005 Kobe Bryant existed. If Kobe was truly 1B from 2000-2002, why wasn't he a true 1A in 04-05? The answer was he really wasn't that guy yet. He would do better with worse the next two years (there's the whole Phil Jackson factor too). Also, Dom, if you read this, please do a Tracy McGrady (and Orlando Magic) 2002-2003 video. He's so good I think he may deserve MVP over Duncan, and that is not something I say lightly.

[@TheNamesDitto]

Well said. It's also good to point out that in the way you've contrasted Kobe and Lebron it reflected their upbringing. Kobe had an NBA/basketball player dad, a comfy kid lifestyle, a great support system if he basketball didn't work out, had no pressure except on himself (which is a hallmark of kobe's) and no drawbacks to him practicing basketball. Lebron had no dad, bounced from couch to couch, had limited connection to basketball world and all the pressure in the world to succeed (see the Sports Illustrated cover hype). It's also convenient to consider where they started their careers. Kobe had the top franchise (and biggest market) in the West that has always been pretty much relevant, a HOF coach and Shaq. That duo will always be a positive for his legacy and career as it allowed him to develop on grand stages since he always had a Shaq to alleviate the load. Then you have Lebron, drafted by the Cavs in wherever Cleveland, Ohio is on the map with some role player level dudes and whatever coach he had, and became so good that he couldn't let his team acquire talent for its small market. I'm not dissing Kobe since he's certainly top 10 and has worked for it but you'd be lying if LeBron didn't have a harder childhood and all the negatives that should see him not achieving all that he has.

[@ethanpaul4170]

Your barbershop vids are always lit

[@urbaindelva7869]

They both need each other. Shaq was the superstar, but Kobe became a legit co-star allowing them to become as dominant as they were. Without each other, neither of them would rank as highly as they do now.

[@zcrouch13]

Dom, would love to see a video on your personal top 10 players of all time, much love 🙏🏻

[@Jz115zombies]

When I hear that into. I just know the video is gonna be a banger.

[@wallacemusic160]

Ive been a laker fan since 98 and kobe being with shaq is my fondest memories as a child . i just couldnt fathom one without the other for the entirety of their careers. Despite the break up they both won titles without one another and together, so in the end none of their careers were tarnished because they played with one another. The early 2000 lakers only add to the allure of kobe's career in my opinion.

[@itsjustmateo]

Yo I’m here dom. Good take dom, you know how to do it.

[@evanrich7541]

Such a great intro🙌🏽

[@alexbrady3152]

Ur vids have been extra 🔥 lately

[@derrickiverson8921]

No and not only because he only would have 2 rings but also because he wouldn't have been part of an all time team

[@c.j5739]

Second too as a NBA fan and loving Kobe Bryant as a little kid from 2007-16 and I still think he his a top 3 great if he develops as he does in real life then the management of the lakers would of probably been smart enough to try and build around their young star of if they did not Kobe would of requested a trade

[@Richard-ks5fg]

That thumbnail is too much fam😂😂

[@wyattcorbin1629]

Who you got: 6’6 AI with Curry’s shooting Shaq with Kobe’s work ethic and a decent overall shot

[@MrSlashblade]

But to answer the question no it would hurt Kobe legacy if Shaq and him never played. Because the fact that people forget his 02 03 07 and even his mvp 08 seasons all of his spurs performances, all of his King performances. People really forget that from basically what 2002-2012 he was the best shooting guard undisputed and even in 2013 you could make a case there was no better 2 guard. And what puts Kobe in the convo is the 5 rings and his undisputed dominance in the mid 00s which for whatever reason can only be summed up by his 06 campaign when talking about it and since he only has 1 mvp to show for it, it would even put Kobe near the Iverson and Wade rankings of all time greats when that’s not correct. Also the idea of Shaq and Kobe throughout the entire 2000s is notorious and even romanticize itself. Also Kobe was an elbow to elbow player player in the 2000s for that 3 peat so guys like Lebron and Wade and AI would benefit with Shaq.

[@chaddysalright8493]

mrslash blade damn u make a great case tho

[@calvinluciano]

I disagree kobe was going to get his rings regardless & kobe skills is what defines him not his rings nor his mvps he played in the most athletic era of basketball & he maintained being the best with shaq, without shaq & without a team so hell no he’s no where near the conversation with wade & Ai that’s disrespectful asf, he’s far better than lebron & he’s the closest thing to mike

[@MrSlashblade]

Calvin Luciano for one I didn’t say he is in that class I said without Shaq he’s in the AI and Wade convo in terms of the media which would be a fact because how we barley view him as a top 5 player today with the rings. His rings in the media standpoint does define Kobe for the majority. No one talks about how he was the greatest player that Spurs team played against win or lose in the postseason. No one talks about how the suns were his Bad Boys that he overcame in 2010. No one talks about him basically matching his 06 campaign in 07 and his 08 mvp seasons is seen as him stealing it from CP3. And even his skill set is disrespected it’s disregarded at best a second banana because he “stole” his moves from MJ. When in fact he has better footwork, a better jumper, a better turnaround, more dangerous from the triple threat, and was a damn near contortionist in the air during his athletic prime. He might be the remix but if R Kelly ignition has anything to say about it he just might be better than the original. Also Jordan wasn’t the first person to be a sky walker (Dr J Baylor and David Thompson) or have a turnaround jumper (Wilt Bird McHale basically most star bigmen), people talk like Jordan really invented basketball.

[@calvinluciano]

mrslash blade I don’t care what the media have to say if kobe never had a rape case his image would be completely different right now. They say dumb things to fit their narrative. They didn’t give kobe mvps because of it & they didn’t want to give him help after shaq. Nobody in the world thought kobe would win with gasol. They gave this man a 18ppg scorer to make something happen & he won 2/3 so imagine if he had kyrie whom avg 27 & 29 in the finals as a sidekick to lebron what you think would happen same with jordan he got scottie, pippen wasn’t avg more than 22pts man if you give kobe & jordan just a little help they do a lot with it so to say kobe wouldn’t benefit without shaq I just have to disagree

[@MrSlashblade]

Calvin Luciano ok you clearly are trying to start something especially since I’ve done nothing but sing praise to Kobe I’m not even going to begin to discuss Lebron on a Kobe Bryant video. Take that shit somewhere else kid

[@toadmiester6492]

I think the whole kobe shaq era had to go down the way it did, because they were dominant for a while but all good things must come to an end and other factors were in play. Shaq and Kobes legacies are smaller without each other. Btw ur probably my favorite basketball youtuber

[@VitorRedes]

I don't see how Kobe's legacy could be greater actually

[@raypeyton6790]

First blessing of 2019

[@tashrif46]

5:12 I don't think thats a fair thing to say. I think they both benefitted when really Phil Jackson became head coach in 1999 and he forced them to work together as a team. But if Shaq was No. 1 then Kobe was 1A.

[@ethanhill2767]

When josh Richardson got injured and the coach rolled his eyes and smiled what the hell!!

[@Schmoobs]

Dom da goat

[@soji9412]

I think the big question is, what do we define as being carried? To avoid being “carried”, do you have to be the best player on your team during that championship? Or is it enough as long as you have a significant contribution to the team? Imo you have been carried in someway if you’re not the key player on that team. Kyrie was in some ways carried by Lebron because a huge load was taken off of him by Lebron’s contribution. However he wasn’t completely carried as his contribution was huge and crucial for that ring in Cleveland. I just can’t give you full credit for a championship if you’re not the best guy on that team. I almost see it as a painting and ok you did 30% of the work, which is impressive but someone else did 50% and the rest of the team and coaches picked up the scraps. I understand if people disagree but I can’t change how I feel about that.

[@mariano3460]

I think that kobe bryants legacy is a well written story,i love the fact that he started with shaq and after that he won without him. Kobe gets disrespected a lot just by simply not remembering his story so much. Its kind of great to be able to be one of the greatest ever and being part of the most dominant duo. Magic and kareem are well respected but kobe’s legacy isn’t that different. Thing is that kobe bryants attiude when younger and even later towards the media or towards his teammates (i think you mentioned this on another video) got him a little bit off the memories spotlight. And that he didn’t changed the game with new skills, like the sky hook,the flashy passes,or even the power of shaq. He was able to take and copy the same style of the greatest of all time,even his killer instinct and work ethic. He even added a 3 point shot to those talents. He was really like mike,but one step down him. I hope we start to see more mentions to kobe when the greatest of all are mentioned. Funny that not even his colleagues working on the media are naming him that much. I really think that is because he was so like mike that he maybe gets remembered in an implicit way when mj gets some mentions. Oh and by the way jordan said that he could be beaten in a 1 on 1 against him and for michael to say that,thats a lot. Great video as usual!

[@MrSlashblade]

They went to the conference finals in 98. That’s pretty damn far.

[@ZionCHarper2k23]

naw man, naw

[@Abbad1579]

@@ZionCHarper2k23 Wdym?

[@z4ng3tsu1ch1g0]

I think it depends. If Kobe plays his career without a secondary allstar for the majority of it his legacy wouldn’t be highly touted. But who’s to say instead of Shaq, Kobe somehow ends up playing with a Pau Gasol-level player for a good part of his career, wins at least 3 rings, goes to the Finals pretty much every year but normally loses? His legacy doesn’t get hurt at all because no one can confidently say that Kobe played second fiddle at ANY part of his career and still won 3-4 rings. His career numbers also probably look better being a first option from the get-go.

[@peeks5553]

Love seeing everyone saying “no” as if they have any idea what would have happened. My prediction, he would have WAY better stats, probably would have started as a rookie to provide more offense. As for the rings, Lakers management was gonna pick up another star regardless. He managed to win in 09 and 10 with Pau, don’t see why he couldn’t have won more rings with a different roster. You’re just assuming he’d have to win rings in the same years. He was good enough to win from 2006-2012 with a good roster. Easily. Without Shaq, he could have had a longer lasting great team.

[@MrGodismypower]

Would Shaq's legacy have been better without Kobe?

[@Richard-ks5fg]

MrGodismypower ring wise mayb not but this man was unstoppable

[@LobsAllDay]

@@Richard-ks5fg stop it. dude couldn't win a ring with penny Hardaway before he got traded to LA.

[@melvynsngltn27]

@@LobsAllDay got traded he left due to free agency also he played 3 seasons with Penny not 8,9 or 10 seasons

[@z4ng3tsu1ch1g0]

The “give Shaq a quality SG like VC or Tmac and they still 3peat” is a terrible take cause you can easily flip it and say give Kobe a prime Duncan or KG and they probably win at least 5 rings together.

[@latravisgriffin]

What people don't understand is players like KG and Tmac said they would've loved to play beside Kobe

[@skdog3_385]

jplzzios Kobe and Duncan aren’t beating Shaq and Tmac In the early 2000’s... Kobe wasn’t In his prime yet, Tmac and Shaq were at there peaks, and I’m not even sure If Duncan would outplay or do as good as Shaq so seems invalid to me

[@z4ng3tsu1ch1g0]

Skdog3 _ Prime Duncan beat Kobe and Shaq in 2003 as the lone star and would’ve also beaten em in 2004 if it wasn’t for a lucky Fisher gamewinnner. Yes Kobe was young when he had Shaq but he would’ve shared his absolute prime years along with Duncan’s and KG’s. Shaq started rapidly declining by the time Kobe was at his peak in 2006. Believe me. 5 rings isn’t even generous.

[@BIGJERSEY908]

Fuck no

[@melvynsngltn27]

Not really Kobe with his ego would never get along with a bigger star

[@antlove2k3]

Now the question is what would Kobe's legacy be without Phil Jackson?

[@absm00thMusic]

As a warriors fan I’ve always hated love and Tim Duncan since they would destroy us with little effort but I respect them so it’s crazy to see people try to discredit the players they were

[@Imjussaiyanbro]

Interesting question, I believe most likely no if there wasn’t that duo there may have never been a series of events where Kobe was to get any titles. A lot of different factors and possible outcomes one of which he could have easily been another great player with no rings just because of how things panned out, plenty of all time greats where the cards just didn’t fall their way. Fortunately for Kobe things did go right along with him being great

[@brandonreed9906]

Is that the we believe warriors team your playing against? Also, dope video as always

[@KleinpeterHank]

4:24 is not really an excuse. Kobe was in his 4th year when the Lakers won the title. Shaq never played with Penny through Pennys 4th year. The Magic also didn’t have Phil Jackson as their coach which definitely would’ve helped.

[@whobitmyname]

I believe in this thing called the Shaq bump. Penny got it. Then Kobe. Then Wade. Hell, even Eddie Jones blossomed into an all-star between Shaq arriving and Kobe emerging. Playing next to a focal point like Shaq allows the best wing player on the team to flourish. Not that they're not talented to begin with, and not that they're incapable of becoming great without him..... he just draws so much attention he makes it easier, faster for them to get in touch with their potentials and let their crazy skills shine through. No Shaq, and Kobe would still be great, but I think it takes him a little longer to get great.

[@da_jeezuss8922]

No, for the simple fact that he would have to play his early years *against* shaq in his prime, instead of with him 🤣. Especially if the scenario is: the orlando magic pays shaq, then shaq and penny dominate the league. Then we' d be in jan 2019 asking if penny would have been better without shaq. We are living in that alternate reality, so we know how that played out 😂😂😂😂

[@jaridatkinson4907]

Good point

[@marcoot5040]

Doubt it they didn’t dominate shit even with mj retired and a old east still got dominated by the opposition 🤣

[@da_jeezuss8922]

@@marcoot5040 what? Shaq joined the lakers in the 95-96 season. If he stayed, then its round 3 after getting swept the year before and beating #45 mj the year before that. Who knows what could have happened.

[@da_jeezuss8922]

Correction: he signed in 96, but shaq and penny in their prime could have still been true greatness. Especially when we can speculate where phil jackson could have landed as a coach. He aint goin to la to coach eddie jones and a 18 year old guard out of high school. He's probably going to the next great dynasty, so either san antonio or orlando.

[@marcoot5040]

da_jeezuss mj beat the magic in 96 playoffs 😭 even if he stayed in ORL he already lost to mj coming out of retirement he definitely wasn’t beating him in 97-98 penny wasnt a true perimeter threat that scared a defense the only other player Shaq would have won with is tracy mcgrady in his era. Kobe without a doubt was the changing factor in Shaqs destiny Kobe won back to back with pau as his 2nd against a big 3 Boston no doubt if Kobe had a kg or a dirk he would have won 5 titles minimum

[@drizziemane7807]

I know Kobe still would’ve had 5 rings but it would just take longer because no matter what happens if he has no injuries Kobe is still Kobe 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿

[@bbqblazekyleg7551]

I don't think it would be better since Shaq brought a lot of criticism to Kobe's career that he fed on. People saying he couldn't win without Shaq, he was carried, the 3 airballs, 2004, and etc. He took the criticism and tried to prove the media wrong with winning 2 chips without him, learning to play more unselfish,having a different attitude towards the game.Plus he did get 3 rings with him which is huge for his career and I have said this for a long time but Shaq was winning that first ring with or without Kobe but not the other 2.

[@aaronsullivan6428]

Not true they dont get through Indiana without Kobe. Indiana was by far their toughest finals matchup during the 3 peat and Indiana got him in a lot of foul trouble. That wouldve been the game plan and as soon as indiana did whod La go to to close the game. Also to provide elite defense on Reggie Etc.

[@mockinbird2687]

Thanks for reminding us all including the Kobe haters about the real Kobe’s great. Great videos.

[@kefkapalazzo1]

If whatever team he was on could surround him with talent like he had with gasol/Odom/ariza/Bynum/world peace etc

[@tashrif46]

I think Kobe's legacy took a hit for the 2004 NBA finals and especially the in the 2006 playoffs when the Lakers blew that 3-1 lead to the Phoenix Suns

[@chim8939]

People forget that Shaq joined the Lakers in 96' it took him 4 years to win a chip.

[@MrEdongzki]

kyrie hit the clutch some shots,but untill now people talking about lebron about that finals..i felt for kyrie..

[@edwinj]

I don’t think if you stick Ray Allen from that era on that team to replace Kobe they still win, but I DO think if you stick Tracy McGrady or Allen Iverson of that era, they still win 3 rings. On the other hand, if you replace Shaq with Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan of that era, they still win at least 1 ring.

[@TRENDKILL0]

People are just erasing his years with Shaq in this scenario. You have to remove those years and supplement them with what he may accomplish. His stats would be way up, and we don't know what his teams would look like. Trades may have been forced sooner, he may have went somewhere else, etc. With that being said, I kind of think one thing that would've improved his legacy the most, would be if he went and played a year a Duke. Would've slightly altered his play and maturity.

[@LobsAllDay]

what people forget is Kobe almost 3 peated without shaq if not for the big 4 boston celtics in their prime

[@NeverwascooL]

I have a question (I don't play 2K) can you put current uniforms on throwback teams?

[@axezazel]

If Shaq wasnt there, his legacy wud be insane.. he wud have avg 40ppg for an entire season at some point for sure.. more 60pts games, more crazy highlights, still winning rings, maybe less rings but still winning.. for sure more mvpz..

[@chim8939]

8:11 that was a nasty stepback

[@ronaldkirya110]

Dom before you ask that question swap the positions would Shaqs Legacy be affected than ask that because he is fine on any team with support

[@nigelbelcher9407]

Good job dom

[@e747donkey]

Anyone else think this intro beat lit

[@anthonycurrer1010]

Who would you consider the better player? John wall or Steve Nash? Personally I got Nash.

[@Hydrationstation157]

Just because I'm curious as to what you guys think, what was the better lakers on court duo? Shaq and Kobe, or Kareem and Magic?

[@ronniedwayne]

I got halfway through this video before I realized that was the 07 Warriors not the modern Warriors

[@AHeckingChannel]

All-time greats don't exist without playing with fellow All-time greats. Kobe and Shaq are a household name in any basketball conversation just as much as how MJ and Pippen were. Winning rings are as close or equal as your individual accolades as a player. Lebron couldn't win any rings till he's paired with a bunch of All-Stars like the Warriors and the other teams right now.

[@jamais412]

Ugh your intro always give me some Chris Smoove nostalgia.

[@c.j5739]

I think it he will probably win probably 4 championships because even though they don’t have Shaq from 1996-2004 the lakers would of probably continued to build around Kobe and knowing the GM knowledge of Jerry West their management would of gotten somebody for Kobe or Kobe would of been traded to a better team with a lot of championship pieces so it can go either way because of management decisions not necessarily Shaq alone So I think his legacy would of been close to the same

[@tashrif46]

And Kobe's relationship with Shaq really deteriorated because Shaq didn't take the game seriously. I remember when Charles Barkley on TNT just said that if Shaq had a great work ethic he could have been the greatest of all time but upon hearing that Shaq just started arguing with Charles. You could imagine how Shaq responded when Kobe used to say these in the early 2000s.

[@natothegreat3981]

This video is the truth!!!

[@Tonyoung55]

I said this for years it would be better to causal fans because he would of got at least 4 Rings and would had more points by a lot maybe even All-Time leader Scorer Could proved give him Another All-Star and great sixth man and he can get to the Finals and Win....you'll people really think LA wouldn't gotten him another Superstar

[@ChroniclerOfJudah]

i'm not sure if you watched these series or just reading stats but shaq got doubled sometimes tripled teamed damn near everyplay.

[@brxndxnr5377]

Yo Dom, where would you rank James Harden on the all time shooting guard list?

[@juliothom2408]

I love this topic. Kobe could only have enhanced his legacy if: A. HE was the undisputed Alpha on a team from Day 1. B. He became the undisputed Alpha on that team WITH Shaq and won more than 5 titles. Kobe gets dinged, rightly so in my opinion, for being 1B on those first 3 title teams. I won't go so far as to say he was carried by Shaq, but Shaq WAS 1A on the 3-peat Lakers. Kobe was important. Shaq was MORE important. I do think that the last 2 elevated his status immensely. The only 2 guys I can think of that became undisputed Alphas that won titles after being a 1B are Kobe and Havlicek. The fact Kobe became that undisputed Alpha is what makes him special.

[@calvinluciano]

I don’t think shaq was more important I think he was the biggest weapon but not more important. Being unstoppable on offense is not more important than locking down the biggest opposing threat on defense which is normally point guards shooting guards & forwards around this time & which is what kobe had to take on plus be a threat offensively

[@Gamingdoc]

Like Iverson said they must have forgot. Black Mamba.

[@eaemen2269]

Let's just say that kobe probably would have 2 rings at least (if the Lakers management didn't do much, but contributes a little) his legacy would be damaged, because one of the first things we say about Kobe x LeBron is the amount of rings, so I would say that Kobe wouldn't be mentioned as a top 3 SG of all time because the majority of people who say player x is better than player y just look at rings and finals MVP so Kobe would be even more disrespected than he is now.

[@chancesigrah4261]

Are athletic cases only for phones? How about iPads or Tablets?

[@thatguy7248]

I feel like it really depends on who shaq would be replaced with in this scenerio

[@Commentsofthemonth]

Yes

[@Hamzz25]

It wouldn't of

[@KILLARAYMAN1]

The whole I want my own spotlight thing is a big factor, but lets be honest the real issue that tore them apart was the fact Kobe violated man code and snitched on Shaq. They both try to sweep it under the rug to keep this in the sports legacy category than personal issues, but they both know.

[@VxNJremix]

What about prime Shaq and prime lebron? I think it would be a toss up as far as who’s more dominant cuz lebron is also the most dominant Small forward of all time and no one can guard him 1 on 1 because of the physical tools Lebron is also faster and stronger and bigger than anyone matching up wit him and he can also jump higher than anyone.

[@LobsAllDay]

wouldn't have worked. this is what basketball fans don't understand. Shaq is a lane clogger. bron would not be able to drive to the hoop effortlessly with Shaq on the team. he would need to be a better perimeter player/jump shooter/post game with Shaq which is not his strength. Kobe and shaq will be a better duo than bron and shaq. the best duo with bron is bron + a great perimeter player to space the floor . Bron + prime Nowitzki would be crazy. same with bron + Kobe. or Bron + tmac etc

[@VxNJremix]

@@LobsAllDay as far as i remember kobe wasnt that good of a shooter either lmao he was a slasher back in those days with shaq and obviusly he had a since mid range game but his outside shootiner as far as threes arent better than lebrons

[@LeJoyBoy23]

Vamp Axis True

[@777Samiboy]

for the nba fan boys kobe would be ranked higher, but when all time greats and nba personal talk about him it would probably hurt him when he would be missing out on 3 rings and 4 finals (assuming he doesn't have any other talent on his rosters).

[@shomoy7396]

Kobe would’ve broken out as a superstar earlier because he would be the number 1 option from the beginning. Knowing the lakers they would’ve paired Kobe up with someone like Kevin Garnett.

[@justinjones9579]

Great players find a way to win, regardless of the circumstances. Kobe in 08 before the Gasol trade, was on pace to win 50+ games and a top 3 seed in the west. And this is with Jarvis Crittenton, Kwame Brown, Parker etc. He’s a great player that’s why it’ll be hard to say how many championships he’ll get, so I wont even try to guess, but Kobe is top three all time in points, he averaged 25 points for his career, and he sat the first couple of seasons, and he played 20 years... without shaq Kobe probably passes Kareem in points because he’d be the first option, earlier on in his career, he’d probably even start out the gate. So everyone saying he’s not top 10 without shaq, I don’t see NBA consensus leaving out an elite two way player with 2 championships and the all time leader in points

[@KahaaniRushiFan]

Who ranks higher all-time as of rn, DWade or Curry?