Wrath Has Changed More Than You Think... | WoW Classic

[@WillEmmo]

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/factor75_willemmo and use code POGWILLEOCT50 for 50% off your first box!

[@Kottery]

Been using Factor for the past month or so as they're great for my weeks where I work five twelve hour shifts in a row. Generally pretty good, learned I like mushrooms from these. Still not a fan of green beans... So far the cheesy bacon ranch shredded chicken with broccoli and mushrooms is my favorite. And when in doubt, their grilled chicken is always a banger.

[@GamingDualities]

wrath will never be big agian withouit balanced pvp servers and witk tokens...

[@DerKnusperhase]

next step for classic with 20-30 percent icc buff is wrath of the drug dealers king. nearly all guilds desolve only gdkps running now where everybody and theyre dog get 11/12 + hc

[@MrSoapert]

4 years ago i just said: "well lets see if classic rly is as good as ppl say" and so i did. i Joined a Guild in Classic became an officer and later in AQ 40 the Raidlead without prior knowledge or exp in Leading a Raid. We managed to clear NAXX but above all: We had fun......we still have fun. PPL left and new PPL joined in TBC but we cleard SWP and moved on to Wotlk. And now 4 years later we are on our way to Kill LK and we will but above all WE HAVE SO MUCH FUN. Its kinda crazy that with all the ppl leaving and new ppl joining that a BIG reliable Core of about 15 ppl are Playing in our Guild since classic. Its such a great Game and i enjoy the Time in my Guild so much.

[@bohne8746]

moorpgs always have been about the people💪

[@jordanwinters5268]

Similar feeling, I look around at our current raid roster and we still have like 15 people that are the exact same as our clear of classic Naxx, been a fun journey together

[@Fizbini1]

Cata release will change everything like it did for everyone the first time. Wrecked the game

[@GamingDualities]

wrath will never be big agian withouit balanced pvp servers and witk tokens...

[@raechu_01210]

I wish I could just take Wrath class design and put it in Vanilla. Viable hybrid dps specs. Ret paladin with actual dps buttons. Casters that do more than press the same spell over and over. I think one of the reasons Warrior is so crazy popular in Vanilla, aside from being numerically the best class obviously, is they are just plain more involved than other specs. I'd say my Vanilla warrior feels similar in complexity to my Wrath hunter. But I like all of the things Vanilla does. A bigger focus on the journey. Having a main character. Focusing on preparation rather than execution.

[@MrFireGabe]

This I can get behind. I like the world and journey of vanilla but the class designs are uhhhhhhhhhh.......

[@jinkura_]

Agreed

[@Haggis-Giggles4692]

That would be the best. Everyone agrees that Wrath has better classes while Vanilla has better atmosphere.

[@trousersnake1486]

Wrath will always hold a special place in my mind but playing classic hc, being mid 30 in age I greatly appreciate the more simple and slower paced "journey" it provides

[@Sarlyx]

ok boomer

[@camronjohnson4232]

Im 27 and completely agree, got a couple work friends to join me and its awesome a couple hours a night after work!

[@roffe8751]

@@Sarlyx2019 called…

[@roffe8751]

I also agree. Unfortunetly my HC journey ended at lvl 39 because of a DC. Its a small flaw that really ruins the official HC concept. But slow pacing through vanilla was so fun.

[@holymacarenafin2319]

Im 28 and never playd wow Back then. Went to druid when classic came out. Now enjoying HC as challenge.

[@AEGISDEFENSE]

Having played them so close back to back now…I prefer classic. The world is so much more alive and it’s own character. More of it is used versus everyone being in Outland or Northrend.

[@tainicon4639]

I agree, though I prefer the way Paladin plays in wrath… I love the old world

[@Permuh]

​@@tainicon4639 put the wrath abilities in classic+ or ptr just to check it out!😂

[@shane3744]

@@tainicon4639 I feel like class design is overall better in WotLK and beyond. If they take some learnings from the more modern class designs and just apply them to the world of Vanilla, more variety of specs may be viable. That would freshen things up a lot.

[@dannyp9210]

@@shane3744 Imagine Vanilla but with Wrath talents, class design, encounter design and more danger :O

[@sergiolandz6056]

@@dannyp9210 that be awesome, would be nice to have servers with what you mentioned.

[@bejeta7]

When I was first playing vanilla, I thought expansions would just add more content to the existing world. I guess I was naive. I didn't realize it would shoehorn us into different and smaller continents

[@Zebrastreifen77]

I realised that first week of tbc original launch. Back in 2007. Blizzard never learned that they are ruining they game, a small step at a time with each expansion that doesn't build upon the previous content but instead replaced it.

[@BluuSkyz]

I played towards the end of BC and really got the hang of things in wrath. I’m playing classic now for the first time ever but also downloading wrath because it was my jam.. I want to try it before they move onto cataclysm. Classic will always be there.

[@DudeyRhino]

Been loving Classic Era for months now.

[@Shitockiful]

Oh yeah, just wait a couple more and you’ll see how many people are left

[@pocketqueens830]

@@Shitockiful been playing era for over a year, we'll be here having fun whether its the 'popular' thing or not. Honestly it was more fun before credit card swipers came back.

[@wusscake]

After watching these videos, I think what appeals the most to people in vanilla classic is the entire world stays relevant throughout the entire expansion. Even when Naxx came out, the rest of the world was still relevant. Other quests took you into the other zones, there were enemies to farm for specific mats, etc. Older dungeons would often have 1-2 items for each class that were so good, they were worth going back into. TBC had this as well with Gruul's Dragonspine Trophy. There's no need to get super tryhardy over it. It's not that kind of game. This game was popular BECAUSE it didn't appeal to the super hardcore. There was plenty to do, even for the most casual of players.

[@masterguy15]

If I wanted to enjoy the story of WoW and not play retail, what would be the best way to do so?

[@zrakcin]

Started playing hardcore recently and I’m really liking it. I agree that both versions have their own purpose. I play Wrath as well mainly for the end game dungeons and raiding, and classic vanilla when I want a more relaxed, immersive experience

[@tiyangina3571]

Im the same just that I never got into playing classic earlier on and thus am not playing wrath classic, but retail for its end game PvE, with hardcore on the side for some relaxed but not too stakeless adventuring

[@GamingDualities]

wrath will never be big agian withouit balanced pvp servers and witk tokens...

[@lerenardroux]

i hope we get classic+

[@Shiirow]

no matter how many times your regurgitate this sentiment nor how many thumbs up you get. theres a negative percent chance of it happening.

[@TheConnoiseurofTheArtofSnort]

I want wrath+

[@TheConnoiseurofTheArtofSnort]

​@@ShiirowJust like with blizzard bringing back vanilla wow?

[@DRourk]

Be careful what you wish for. The current Blizzard devs couldn't design a good game if their lives depended on it.

[@troqu]

​@olehalvorsen I'm surprised anyone believes the current Blizz could make a "classic+" that wouldn't be universally hated

[@DoubtedPumpkin]

I got whiplash when you revealed that classic has been out for 4 years

[@alexanderqwertz1387]

playing vanilla at nighttime doesnt fuck up my sleep compared to other games because its so calming

[@MoonTurky]

Or just sleep instead of playing games ?

[@alexanderqwertz1387]

never@@MoonTurky

[@kristianyanev3533]

It's actually unbelievable how many times Willie can upload the same video saying the same thing and get away with it xD

[@Shiftlinkage101]

This is the first video I've watched in a very long time due to that exact reason. It might not show in his sub count, but I'm sure his breakdown would show signs of that being a bigger problem than you imagine.

[@stefangeibla3824]

I have played both versions a lot… honestly i was disappointed in Wotlk. The open world is completely deserted except for bots, it’s just a raid logging simulator. People afk in dala until raid, min/max like hell then log off. Vanilla is a real MMO… there is so much more to do, so much interaction with the open world 😍

[@blubblubwhat]

What was the message in this video or the reason for its existance? I watched it but i cant tell for the live of me

[@zedorian6547]

There isnt one. Its literally just a quick “here are a few main differences between wrath and vanilla classic” and thats about it. Maybe he is trying to help us make an informed decision on which version to play?

[@jamespadgett8660]

@@zedorian6547 haven't we had this same video at least twice before?

[@MoonTurky]

​@@jamespadgett8660Give him a break, this guy literally has to be a productive member of society and poison our brains with the most regurgitated useless information and shit mobile game ads so he can live a comfy life doing literally nothing but dedicating his existence to a 15 year old dumpster fire

[@zedorian6547]

@@jamespadgett8660 pretty sure we have

[@grabeck666]

There were some recent leaks that said there will be no Cata Classic, that blizz stops at Wrath.

[@dontreplytome5665]

Then the roadmap dropped lmao

[@grabeck666]

@@dontreplytome5665 yeah this post didn't age well

[@Boneheaded0]

Hope we get classic+ and cata I love both versions of the game

[@stonemove4207]

I started in Classic 2019. Loved it. Played 100s days on my warlock. My only character. Then TBC came out. I made a Tauren Shaman. Played TBC from lvl 1 horde to 70. Had a blast, loved it. WOTLK came out, I played 1 month with my Shaman and left. Wrath wasn't the game I was playing before. Something was different... Now back on Classic HC waiting for Classic+ ! Great video btw!!

[@SirBenthr]

You failed to mention the most important change to Wrath and the reason I can't get myself to play it: WoW token...

[@jonascourturee]

Lifes tough as a guy who enjoys Classic, Wrath, and Retail... Wish I could just settle on one of them lol

[@Haggis-Giggles4692]

Don’t know how one could enjoy retail

[@litterbox2010]

Classic is perfect to me, but for one thing. I don't see why we can't improve player models/customisation/transmogs and stuff. This is stuff that was a technical limitation at the time and no longer is. Why not just make it look good and allow us to change clothes? That's all. That's literally the only change.

[@starsareangels7]

I want tbc fresh lol let the era characters get copied over again id rather just keep the rotation while waiting for classic + content. Why get rid of the old stuff just have a server for every expansion

[@Shiirow]

that would probably be the better option, have a few era servers for every version of wow. a lot of the classic era servers are covered in dust.

[@starsareangels7]

​​@@ShiirowI'd Play an European bc server if it was an option or just pay another 50 for a server spot lol really I just want to do things the legal route as that's the only option for me and my consciounce what I mean is I'm eastern time US but i would deal with some lag to play the versikn i want it can't be just a server cost issue right? Idk we could do demand votes in the community

[@EdinMike]

Funny enough, I left original WoW in Wrath and came back for a sneak peak in Cata. And enjoyed it for a few months, never raided in OG Cata though… So I’m tempted to repeat history !

[@andromidius]

The raiding is great. Until the last one. Which is 'okay' until the final encounter. Which is awful. But those two first tiers? Wow, seriously - peak WoW experiences. Main issue with Cata was the long waits. Which shouldn't happen second time round.

[@Xfacta12482]

@@andromidius I'm not sure I could call tier 2 "peak WoW". There was 1 small raid w/ Firelands, and you def felt the missing water raid. And personally, I always thought the beginning of Dragon Soul is the worst raid they've ever released. You literally teleported to copy & paste rooms & boss models, before you teleported again to kill a tank n spank generic dragon

[@JohnRock14]

​@@Xfacta12482what? T11 was SOLID and firelands is one of the best raids ever with a super sick encounter at the end.

[@chipchippahson]

@@Xfacta12482 Tank n spank dragon? Stfu you NEVER did Heroic Spine. Lol. Trash first time LFR player when it came out.

[@chrisbreen6484]

​@@Xfacta12482that 'generic dragon' is one of the biggest characters in the lore since way back in the strategy games, you just dont know what youre talking about

[@vXCozmoz]

Personally lvl 70 is wrong (from that C+ "leak") in a lvl 1-60 vanilla Azeroth and do NOT add flying to it. What can be done is maybe some class tweaks so it's not gonna be warriors and rogues reigns supreme. Boomkins some mana reg, same for shadow priests etc without going too crazy with the changes. Things like that. Just don't blindly trust them. Remember what they said during blizzcon announcing classic "we want to reproduce the authentic game as it were then" bs and look what we got for Classic version: Level boost, able to make 55 DK on a fresh account and above all, f-ing wow token! I'll stay sceptical optimist at best. Ohh and ofc good video. Over 82k views under 2 weeks. Well done and gratz! 1) I will play "Classic+" if they do it right. But if they are even thinking of adding level boost and especially wow token, HARD pass! Maybe that's why they charge 50 bucks, hence no token? 2) For the love of God if they add High Elves (BEs) please update the bow animation to newer one. Was a big welcomed change later on. Old animation is aweful. A simple toggle would work. 3) Scarlet Monastery raid. Considering how popular SM dungeons have always been. Fill the empty and unfinished areas with content. Many places on the world map to add more. 4) If they will add housing which was a plan for Vanilla back in the days, don't make it like in WoD. Last thing we need is "empty" servers where people sit in their houses and "farm/craft" all day. I was one of those players who quit WoW Classic Wrath when they added the token. Also spread the word that this years Blizzcon will be FREE to stream and that has been confirmed. Lastly, it won't be that long until Classic bypasses Retail's numbers (unless they keep f-ing it up with the monetization like wow token etc, has NO place in classic/vanilla!).

[@dalehill5192]

I was playing during the original WotLK and classic, I had no desire to repeat the Loremaster achievement again because during the original I didn't use any add-ons..

[@fobb94]

Vanilla and wrath need to have a baby. Good leveling experience and good end game

[@khansterbeam95]

- Retail for story (but I really dislike the story now, so I'm not there) - Classic HC for gameplay - Wrath for both (but I'm addicted to HC at the moment, so on a break)

[@arc-sd8sk]

tbc was the perfect balance between vanilla and wrath i will die on this hill edit: flying also rules, thank you

[@derekjanisch584]

Later, Sincerely the Wrath Enjoyers

[@casko9626]

You will die alone

[@MoonTurky]

^ Now those are some genuine WoW player comments

[@vvillhelmzecheekclapper7984]

​@@derekjanisch584 as they log off and perma quit the game lol

[@jameskillbot2867]

Tbc is the peak for me too.

[@Tmaxfield194]

I havnt played wow since 2009. I played from launch till then. I came back to wow about 2 weeks ago. To try SOD.. and im having a blast. Have a 34 undead priest. As ive always played a healer class as my main. Its era with a twist. Love it.

[@johernandez266]

What do you think will happen, when Classic catches up to Retail? Two versions of the same game running side by side?

[@niki75]

Interest for the more recent expansions will begin to dwindle. I dont think anyone is clamoring for a WoD classic or BFA Classic... Cataclysm is prroobably gonna be the last one. *Maybe* Mists... But I believe that when I see it

[@MikaelLV]

@@niki75 I honestly think Cataclysm itself is not as likely to be re-released as people think. It's mostly been in the conversation because youtubers like Wille are farming for content.

[@niki75]

@@MikaelLV Blizz deffo has plans to go beyond Wrath. The sheer amount of surveys and such they're had for the future of Wrarh classic to me is enough to signal that much

[@Elearen]

Google old school rune scape

[@niki75]

@@Elearen OSRS and RS3 are two fundamentally different versions of the same game. Hell thanks to Evolution of Combat they even play differently. As different as Classic and Retail are the core gameplay is still the same on both versions

[@polygondon]

If you're enjoying ICC, that doesn't mean you'll like Bastion of Twilight or BWD. Those raids are brutal. They are "stack 11 feral druids in your 25m" brutal, in terms of how they were on launch for Nefarion.

[@OrchinX]

This is why I think cata truly lost so many players. That level of difficult across the board from normal raids to heroic dungeons was just not accessible for most.

[@Zyotomir]

​@@OrchinX More difficult doesn't necessarily mean more fun.

[@chipchippahson]

Lol no they weren't.

[@chipchippahson]

Nah people were just whiny and BAD. Which of course they immediately hotfixed everything within weeks so that had nothing to do with anything.

[@Zel-nv5he]

@@chipchippahson And people are still as bad.

[@jacobking962]

I just want them to phase the map. “Classic” at least 50% refers to the original map. They should introduce “prepare for deathwing” quests that have you complete a dozen or so of the og vanilla quests, and when you turn in the “prepare” quest, you see deathwing enter the zone and change it. Then you can level the new zone

[@blainelashley2120]

i really enjoyed classic, i hope we get classic plus.

[@Haggis-Giggles4692]

We have Classic+ which is called Season of Discovery

[@hoffyc.h393]

I think real WoW nowdays is Classic 60 and Wrath, Retail isn't WoW anymore, so Blizzard should Delete Retail any focus and expand on the Classics.

[@Shiftlinkage101]

I have no dog in the race because I have been doing without any of them, but they'll never just "erase" retail. If anything they should focus on the best ideas from the most players having those ideas for retail, and fix that version while catering to the old heads that want these lesser versions in the meantime.

[@Kamidake83]

I really want to see classic +. Cata wasn’t a bad expansion, but it was undeniably the start of the decline. To be fair anything trying to come in behind wrath was going to suffer. Truthfully what I want to know is the changes to Cata in retail going to be in Cata classic.

[@lazerrhino]

IMO MOP was better than CAT, but then shit really goes down hill after MOP.

[@FreedomFighter08]

The problem with vanilla classic is the class balance. In wotlk every spec is viable in raids which is more fun from a raiding/end game perspective and there are less meme specs.

[@BLKCLVR]

I stopped playing Wrath, not because of any inherent problems but because my guild didn't have enough raid spots. I was really enjoying it. But wow, Hardcore really has been so much fun.

[@Kurisuvision]

Granted we didn't have JJ back in original Wrath, we had RAF which I would much rather. 50% bonus is pittance in comparison to 300% + hourly summon + an additional month of game time + mount / pet limited to RAF monthly rewards.

[@MyHonFreaksTv]

Wouldn't it be lovely for them to go all out for classic + like after classic + they implement all the dropped ideas from tbc for tbc + same with wrath they had so many great ideas which were cut in the end. Tbh I just wanna see the Gundrak Wotlk raid shit looked so promissing

[@SaarimaaSauli]

Classic hands down, but really looking forward to cata dungeons and raiding.

[@aggierev]

If Cata Classic drops the talent tree change, I'll probably play it. But if they keep the change, wrath will be my game.

[@nathanbrady8529]

Cata was when they lost me because of the talent trees. In WotLK, I ran a holy/disc hybrid for pvp. I was furious when I lost him.

[@andromidius]

@calvinhobbes5524 Mostly. They are condensed a bit and you're locked into one spec until you unlock the final ability. Which does ruin some hybrid specs - but vastly improves a lot of others. And those hybrid specs were gimmicky most of the time - there's a reason nearly no-one uses them currently. Last 'good' hybrid spec in Classic was back in Vanilla with the FuryProt warrior (yeah, Revenge spec was decent in Wrath too early on - but again, mostly a gimmick that quickly faded when content started getting harder)..

[@jt5765]

It pissed me off big time when they locked readiness out for BM hunters so we couldn't extend beast within. Pretty much the only time we have ever been a viable PvP build. Didn't even last a season from what I remember.

[@Pausenmacher]

I hope they Re-do this Cycle of Classic - TBC - Wrath. Big Money Maker with little Effort.

[@RandomGamerCory]

it did not change more than anyone thought the devs made changes themselves that drove people back to actual private classic wrath/tbc/vanilla servers people wanted classic, not the modern devs idea of what classic should be

[@Zel-nv5he]

These outro with Wrath music make me so f-ing nostalgic, damn!

[@rattlehead999]

I've said it many times if WotLK is Classic so is Cata, which means that if people don't like Cata, they shouldn't like WotLK. Why? Cata is WotLK+, it literally polished everything in WotLK. The class design peaked in Cata all the way until SL and DF. The dungeon and raid design and complexity reached new heights at the time in Cata, which was a goal that WotLK didn't have time to achieve, even though Ulduar and ICC were more complex than anything before them. The PVP also peaked in Cata. Then we also got much better leveling in both 1-60 and 80-85, the best at the time and the last time we got non-endgame leveling content. Cata polished the tabard rep system, the badges turned into justice/valor which was better, along with the raid group sizes and difficulties being equated was great, more glyphs, better gems. The talents were finally great, but I do think they missed their chance to level squish down to 60, but I guess it wasn't seen as a problem back then. Cata also had endgame open world content in the form of the motlen front. Itemization was finally done perfectly. And then there were many great additions like reforging, void storage and for those who like to devalue armor transmog. Whatever WotLK did Cata did much better, except it didn't have a raid tier in 4.1 and LFR was a poor replacement for 10 man Normal Raid in WotLK(easy raid difficulty).

[@haytham7035]

I'm all for senseful QoL-improvements but I'm also deeply convinced, that excessive automatism like the DungeonBrowser, account-bound semi-boost items for your twinks & account-bound achievements etc. being recently introduced in Wotlk paved the way for today's WoW retail, which is wideley known as a soulless game...and might be one of the main reason why so many veterans moved to Classic 2019 in the first place. Especially with regard to the DungeonBrowser: Communication has always made a significant contribution to a better ambience. But now due to recent changes apathy is already becoming apparent e.g. people not greeting each other, & do whatever they want to etc. Again Blizz messed it up, again RPG is heading towards the abyss.

[@alihorda]

I play both retail and classic era and I noticed this is more a player problem. there are rude or uninterested people in any version of the game. personally I'd like some QoL changes for classic while keeping its charm (I. e achievements or toy tabs). we don't have dungeon finder but people just spam trade chat for LFM messages which is annoying

[@saschaaah]

I have never seen people do more dungeons in wrath since release now that we got RDF. And before RDF i just messaged a guy spaming LFG moved to the dungeon, said gg at the end. The only diff is, i find a lot more dungeons now with RDF in. I think A VERY BIG MAJORITY wanted and appreciates RDF. When they first announced no RDF i was actually supporting that decision, having RDF in now just showed me how fricking wrong i was

[@fritzschnitzmueller3768]

I have a lot of fun in wrath. But I probably had the best time ever during classic and even more during Season of Mastery

[@WoWBeSt4532]

Anyone know the UI layout at 8.25? (His hunter) i really would like to know but cant find anything about it. I need a new UI

[@nonofourbusiness-l2h]

I believe that's Elvui, has a lot of things you can configure and might take a while to set up but imo its worth it

[@gatorbait9385]

Does anyone know if you can server change from the classic server to a BC server and then to a Wrath server? Like to get the same progression that people got the first time around?

[@Shiftlinkage101]

Nope. There are no TBC servers anymore. They progressed to WotLK.

[@M4Production]

Classic is a 10/10 adventure, wrath is raid logging, then raid logging, oh you can go out in the open world and find a bunch of stuff that you cant use at your level sure. Or a mount to log out on.

[@itsnobbie1212]

It would also be conceivable that the developers implement “Chromie Time” in the WoW Classic trilogy. Once you have reached level 60, visit Chromie and choose either TBC or "Classic+" as an alternative timeline until level 70. Once you have reached 70, you continue playing WotLK as usual. Cataclysm Classic could then also be released.

[@akxdev]

Personally, I'd prefer it if Classic+ diverged from the typical "expansion" model and instead looked more like OSRS. (e.g. new professions? new raid? new boss for an existing raid? new battlegrounds? arenas?)

[@TheWarriorscat]

As someone who’s memories of wow start at the end of wrath, and who always wanted to kill the “big dragon” (I now know is named Dearhwing) that I watched my dad do many times, I’m mainly looking forward to cata to do the things younger me couldn’t. Lots of the friends I’ve made have stated that they’re quitting after Wrath so I’m not sure if I would have continued on otherwise

[@tlevesbranch3744]

Hoping the crowd chants classic+ for the boys back home

[@hecticmojo4532]

I’m really glad that they decided to keep vanilla classic. It’s nice knowing that old Azeroth is there to visit. I do think that they should keep WotLK era servers. Warmane attests to how timeless WotLK is

[@theformuoli6397]

The TLDR is that vanilla is definitely much more relaxing and enjoyable to play in leisure. Endgame wise, playing these eras are fun because you just min max absolutely everything and see how hard you can destroy a boss or exploit a resource. - at least that’s my pov as someone whose played since 05, and on retail as well as private servers since 2014. Stopped retail in BFA and never looked back

[@terrodar19]

Classic + is inevitable. People are completely done with retail…. Two things will happen: 1) ‘wow 2.0’ as in a merger between retail and classic in a weird ‘reboot’ extra expansion kind of thing (taking the game back to MUCH simpler gameplay) 2) a true classic + type of thing

[@Blubking1]

Bro thats hard cope

[@st1gzy]

This is what in thinking as well. I feel like they’re going to come out of left field and make a time / chromie / bronze dragon flight themed expansion that blends all versions together somehow. Splitting the playerbase up this much is bad business design as well. If they don’t do that they’ll put retail in maintenance mode and reinvigorate the franchise through classic +

[@Blubking1]

@@st1gzy Thats even more cope

[@Shiftlinkage101]

The "people are completely done with retail" makes me laugh every time I read it. They have certainly lost a shit load of subs compared to YEARS ago, but just from a couple minutes in the stream of someone that, oddly enough still plays retail, there are plenty of people that play daily. There are many people in retail that are simply collectors, or auction house players/providers. "Pro" players still sell carries in PvE, and PvP weekly. BG que times are decent, arena(shuffle) queues are relatively fast depending on what rating you are. I'm not sure what will truly kill retail, but it's certainly a ways off. People like you feel like retail is dead because they don't have 50 servers that are maxed out, and 8-10 million active subs. It doesn't take that many people to play the damn game. If that were true, Classic would be completely dead. The entirety of classic wrath as of just a few days ago is 20,124 players. Sure that's probably off by, lets say a couple thousand to be fair. Retail has 30x times that if not more. Btw, I don't play either currently.

[@BuzzzdLightyear]

I think it would be very cool to see Blizz do Classic+. Just like OSRS, I would like to see Classic be its own entirely separate development of WoW. The problem with Classic+ is deciding where to start. I think there's a big case for Vanilla+, but that would still likely feel like a big step back from TBC and Wrath and the improvement that those games made to the game. Keep in mind, Im not talking about Wrath Classic and all of the things that Blizz butchered this time around, but the original developments from 2008. Class and Talent improvements, core gameplay mechanics and systems, dungeons and raids, etc. It's more likely we just get Cata Classic, which I'm also ok with as I really liked the game and think the hate for it is overblown. Who knows what new ownership of the company will bring. They're already getting rid of Bobby Kotick, which was kind of a surprise but remains to be seen if they actually give a shit about the game or just want one of their own moneymakers in charge.

[@Indignation92]

No Flame, but was is the essential message of the video?

[@Shiirow]

to muse meanderingly

[@druidlololol]

Classic era foreverrrrr

[@gabewhite6943]

I think it’d be interesting if blizz would make cata into an 80-100 journey this time around. Keep vanilla in the game, don’t change talents, just have players come back to a cataclysmed world after they’re done with wrath, of course bring zoridormi around all the major cities just so you can go back and see. I would be completely fine just going back through every single expansion in order if blizz would work them into the game instead of just pasting content on top of the old.

[@OffBeatTupelo]

I was there the first time the Alliance raided Brill on my server back in the day. I hope they still do that but I am guessing not. Gonna play again anyway. Thanks for the info \m/ \m/

[@Vhite]

While WotLK is often seen as the pinnacle of Classic WoW, these recent years have made me realize that it feels a lot closer to Cataclysm than to Vanilla and TBC. I still very much enjoy it, though I can already feel the change in priorities. Vanilla WoW was basically a vary naive project to simply create a fun RPG world, with many of the standard meta notions such as balance or quality of life not being too high on the priority list. TBC was more of the same, just with the biggest issues (and perhaps also the biggest accomplishments) stemming from this ignorance/innocence being fixed, but in WotLK there has clearly been a conscious shift in moving these notions and metrics to the top priority. That shift I feel is the biggest difference between Classic and Retail WoW.

[@lodrakk3114]

Classic

[@Ncella91]

Vanilla definitely has a better "world" experience. Wotlk is better in just about every other way though. Wotlk systems in a reimagined Vanilla could be interesting.

[@tainicon4639]

Yeah, wrath class viability with classic… classic-ness

[@MoonTurky]

Imagine being a developer and having like 25 versions of your game that people want to combine in their own personal preferences or else they wont play

[@Prawnsly]

​@MoonTurky imagine literally any designer having to iterate and combine the benefits of previous incarnations of a product into the future...... that's literally what it is.

[@Shitockiful]

Introducing 2011 private servers into your life

[@Shitockiful]

@@Prawnslyyou and the dude you replied to are the reason nobody gets along on the internet, stupid vs. stupid lmfao

[@LifeForAiur]

It is my dream that Blizzard implements classic + (not seasonal things like SoD) but expands on Vanilla such as with horizontal progression and class balance. The new content doesn't have to always be endgame stuff. People love releveling in classic, so that new content wouldn't even be "wasted." In a lot of ways, Classic + is what Old School Runescape already is. Just wish blizzard continued to develop classic.

[@dennisberg2474]

I enjoy both, having lfd back is nice. Being a first shifter on the east coast and trying to find an early raid group is a challenge.

[@Boneheaded0]

Decided to reroll on world and level a rogue and it’s so fun right now

[@mendibeer]

Am i the only one that just wants classic + to be TBC-like in features? attunements in the old world, Heroic dungeons, more balanced classes?

[@theoutlander1411]

I want TBC. Whether that be SoM or just TBC era. I know that may be a minority opinion but I think it's better than both Vanilla and WOTLK for different reasons but generally because the end game for both is boring compared to TBC. WOTLK is the expansion of the raid logger, Vanilla is the game of the tedious gear grind, world buff collecting and organization hell just to tank and spank bosses. TBC had attunement grinds for sure, but I actually don't mind it and the raids are more interesting while gearing is fairly straightforward. There's also a ton of things to do in TBC rep wise if you're bored to the point I'm constantly returning to Outland in WOTLK to maybe grind for a tabard or the netherwing mounts whereas nothing like that exists in WOTLK or Vanilla.

[@starsareangels7]

I'm with you man I'd gladly pay for tbc again I don't care let the rotation continue let us copy over era characters it would bring new players to era while waiting

[@bisalissy3846]

TBC SoM sounds really fun. I wish I could play Seal Twist again ^^

[@scandalf4209]

I get the same feeling playing wrath as I did playing retail. Yes it's a better 'game', it feels balanced and mechanically satisfying. But unless you're in a nice guild, it doesn't feel like an mmo. I don't care about the world, because it doesn't' give me any reason to. You just spam the same dungeons and raids with people you don't know or care about. And you obsess over mounts and achievements. The playerbase is also extremely toxic and performance obsessed. Wow (especially classic) has always had this, but wrath seems to have increased the toxicity in people somehow.

[@Shiftlinkage101]

It'll only get worse the further they go.

[@BiSFeralDruid]

Give classic+ or a new expansion line that doesn't go into Cata. If we have to have cata, make it so you can swap into the old world and not force us into the changed world for the 1-60 experience.

[@Blubking1]

Except no sane person would swap to the old world unless blizzard does some serious quest balancing which i hardly doubt

[@slushg3326]

@@Blubking1agreed.

[@badfredable]

Peronsaly i have been enjoying era a lot since summer, the feeling of starting fresh, the feeling of trying a new class, progressing trough the raid tiers at a new formed guilds own pace, experiencing the raids and bosses that i didnt get to do before tbc hit. But i will say after roughly 6 months of it i am starting to feel the crushing weight of farming for consumes every week, especially with the bot economy spiraling up again. On the other hand my guild since classsic have started raiding wrath again, and its fun to do these raids which i also havent done before. The inclusion of the gamma dungeon mechanic has made it possible to get 25 man loot which previously was considered unobtainable cause we only really do 10man raiding. The nature of how we get tier in ICC has given people a reason to log in again, and personally i have finally gathered the strength to actually level some of the level 70 alt army.

[@Lunethzero]

While I enjoyed my time in Cata back in the day I'm not so sure the classic audience is looking for that.

[@Blubking1]

Don’t worry, the Classic audience doesnt even know what they want

[@xaviercharles9616]

well, that's kind of the point of this video, right, the "classic audience" is not really a uniform entity of players(if it ever was). Those who enjoy the true classic experience will enjoy classic fresh, hc, or classic+ more, and those who enjoy wrath right now with its more challenging content, diverse systems and more well rounded class balance and rotations will enjoy Cataclysm as it's pretty much the continuation, dare i say improvement, of what was started in wrath.

[@saschaaah]

Theres many of us that want fresh and there is many of us (like me) that started in 2019 classic and dont want to go back to easy raiding. Tldr i want cata 100%. But there is both for sure, and id be shocked if they dont do both after wotlk

[@parttimehero8640]

Yeah there so many people saying that Cata killed wow they forget that a lot of things started happening in Wrath.

[@lelouche25]

Server wipes would be the next best way to keep classic going.

[@TheButton0]

Personally, I love both. But I find myself playing Wrath a bit more and enjoying it for the reasons mentioned in the video. I feel like Wrath is in a good spot in terms of QoL, features, etc. But I do enjoy some vanilla as well :)

[@elephantshelf3617]

Never got to play WoW back then because of the subscription. So I’m now experiencing the game for the first time. I’ve leveled a character to 30 in classic and 15 in wrath and have to say that classic is much more enjoyable as a first time player. Each zone is packed full of people and the hardcore mode makes the game more engaging.

[@Shiftlinkage101]

Well there are a couple of reasons for that. You've "missed" the Wrath crowd (aside from random alts) by about 4 years considering you're only lvl 15 (classic re-released 4 years ago) and the reason the HC zones are constantly packed is because a huge majority of the players never even see lvl 30. Last time I heard the avg player death for Vanilla HC was like lvl 13. Those people are doing that over and over daily.

[@punishedsneed]

I think the changes made in Wrath have overall been more positive than negative. The titan runes are excellent, for one. I just want more variety overall. Vanilla shills are annoying though. They make the same tired arguments about muh journey. I like Vanilla, but it's all so tiresome to hear them shill for Vanilla. You don't want Vanilla, you want the feeling of your youth back when you could play WoW all day with no responsibilities.

[@nielsfrederiksen6636]

Personally, I wanted a game with no RMT and no parsing. You know, how it was back then. The community doesnt allow that anymore tho.

[@nickloos3202]

​@@nielsfrederiksen6636Exactly!

[@Shiirow]

I feel like the titan runes are a better version of mythic+ without the ridiculous item level bloat and silly timer.

[@theoutlander1411]

True. There's nothing inherently special about Vanilla, it's just that the Vanilla fans as a whole have a healthier relationship to the game than WOTLK and beyond players it seems. If WOTLKC had the same type of playerbase as Vanilla fanboys it would be twice as better if not moreso than it is today.

[@HallyVee]

Yep, that definitely explains it. *loads era again*

[@benny7555]

Have to defend tbc a bit here - mainly in that a lot of what took away the world in tbc was down to us progressing from classic rather than having fresh realms. The early game economy which then affects farming, dungeon runs, world pvp and how many people even have a flying mount was all destroyed by everyone having potentially tens of thousands of gold from classic. As for class design, i know to you its an awkward inbetween but to me its a perfect inbetween. Could use a few small tweaks but i think its great. You actually venture into kalimdor and EK for raids/dungeons at least in kara, CoT and ZA unlike wotlk where you just dont besides ony i guess. Preference thing though, admittedly.

[@DurpeeSlurpee]

Seems to be a common misconception that people wanted vanilla because "nostalgia." Therefore, it makes sense to just re-release all the following expansions, including all the overhauls. But people don't just like vanilla for nostalgia, we like it because it's fun. The later expansions aren't. I never played WoW until classic released in 2019. I tried the retail version after getting addicted to classic and didn't find it fun. I quit when TBC came out and picked it back up when SoD came out.

[@hizzousekakashi8836]

I'd rather have them add the TBC stuff that was intended for vanilla and some of the fixes to the classes as well as tuning certain specs to be more viable.

[@yaserzaree5213]

something they should attend to is the talent tree and class balances just like retail for example the shamy enh and elemental are too weak in this phase comparing to other specs and classes

[@milktrain5567]

ICC is the end of classic era, and still among the greatest raids. Best story and great flow. It will be until SOO when raid gets close to the same level.

[@godofm3tal1]

Every time I look up anything about wow classic, I see ads from Blizzard talking about how they changed and added things to the game and how they're going to be adding more soon. Blizzard needs to take a page out of the jagex play book. I'm not a huge fan of runescape but you have to appreciate what they did with it. They fucked up the direction of the game, re-released the classic version and have opened up every development change to a 70% community vote. Blizzard just wants to fuck this one up too so they can release a third variation of the game you have to sub to and buy shit for. So they can fuck that up in a few years too..

[@ryanguest5969]

I might be in the minority but i want Cata+. Add the cut abyssal depths raid. Change Tol Barad. Rejig leveling so you don't have to randomly go back to do tbc and wrath after level 58. There's a lot that can be done to make Cata a great experience.

[@grabeck666]

The only thing I would love to see is 'buffing' some less used specs at the end game in vanilla classic. And I don't mean numbers buff. I was always in impression that weaker specs are weak because two reasons: 1st, their mainy used spells have their last rank gained at 54(Wrath), 56(Lighthing Bolt) not 60 for example, and that they simply don't have gear aviable at the end game. Imagine how much class balance would change if you would get a 3 gear sets for every class like in BC or LK. Where enh shammy or bala dru have gear with proper stats and not stolen from mages or rogues.

[@henriklovold]

I play classic WotLK, but I am tempted to go back to Era to be honest. I love vanilla more than anything that came after. What I really hope for are fresh vanilla servers with the progression anno 2019. I would definitely play that.

[@Moneyman49442]

Leveling as a tank has been not so good, you can tell the people who come from retail who dont know how to control their aggro X_X

[@godofm3tal1]

Having played a fair bit of vanilla hardcore and moving back to wrath, the biggest difference I felt was the pacing and the lack of emphasis on leveling in wrath. In classic, you have to interact with food and water to even level at any kind of efficient rate. Starting out, even a single boar feels like a mini boss in that it takes a while to burn down and may take a good chunk of HP on its way out. In wrath, you achieve a level in mere minutes that may have taken you an hour or more in classic. You quickly find yourself considering pulling a group of mobs cuz "why not?". Nothing feels threatening without a swarm of them on you and even then you may feel confident to kill all of them. Wrath showcases what's wrong with WOW and exactly what happened to the franchise over the years that made it as boring as it is today. "accessibility". Over time they kept changing the game to make it playable by everyone. It has no soul now. It's just a time sink with no skill required to progress.

[@HoovaHee]

It's funny, back during Classic launch or TBC, people would laugh at you for thinking Classic Cata would be a thing. A vast majority were of the opinion that Wrath is the final destination. Now people are hyping Cata constantly.

[@dev_nickf]

Is the old battlegrounds the same as release?

[@azjeep26]

PLAYED WOW so long my memories of the people that I once played with are fading away. many i cant even remembers their names... Soon will i forget my own......

[@jereboy2005]

I didnt know they were adding back in the LFD to wrath classic. I loved just doing a couple random heroics back in the day. And funnily enough when wrath classic released without it, it was enough to convince me to not resub. I may have to give it a go now with that and ICC being here just to have some fun with my downtime in wow again

[@jimcarrey2866]

I just wish they'd add more "side content" to classic, more races, more classes or more professions. I don't even want more endgame content, just different ways of doing the same content is fine for me.

[@gl22222]

I’m done after Wrath, will not be continuing on to Cata. I will retire my account and look back on playing over the last few years fondly. But. If they announce a Classic+, I will 100% come back and at least try it out for a few months minimum. Just really depends on what the gameplay is like. I prefer the Classic world but 10000% prefer the Wrath gameplay with the improved class balancing, QOL changes, PvP system/gearing, dungeon+/raiding emblem system for endgame content. I don’t know what the game will look like but if they address at least *some* of the major gameplay/QOL issues of Vanilla, I’ll probably be happy to play Classic+ for a long time.

[@spooky_zen]

Isles of conquest needed special venders like wintergrasp

[@Windowsprodukt]

What I was looking forward to in Wrath was the pvp, but that part just wasn't fun this time around. Barely anyone seemed to play it for the sake of enjoying it.

[@mohamamdziaei5920]

I never played vanilla in its time just played it when i started playing wow in 2021 i think when tbc was out just for leveling fast... i would love to play fresh vanilla where everyone is starting to play it from the beginning but my problem with vanilla and wow overall is that in the day one almost everyone knows what to do and where to go... like as they start even the fresh server its not new player friendly... everyone focus on doing it the fastest way and you feel kinda alone... i really hope to play a fully new wow with new zones where no one knows exactly where to go and new mechanics etc... I know that its kinda like a fully new game but I mean I think it will be best chance for new players who dont want to rush and want to just focus on exploring and finding new things...

[@gostreiver8036]

Honestly ironically. I played through enough ice crown and crap doing mount runs and transmog runs over all the years I could really care less to Raid it in wrath. This same nostalgia barrier does not hold true in vanilla. Especially with hardcore being dangerous all the time

[@Shiftlinkage101]

Yep, I also ruined myself for years on Warmane and the occasional transmog runs on retail. I was so hyped for wrath when I heard they were going to re-release Vanilla(I knew they would go full circle) only to quit halfway through TBC, and start back up in wrath. So far I have 2 lvl 80s that are barely full blues. I've done maybe 10 dungeons and haven't stepped foot in a single raid.