XTR/DA vs. XT/Ultegra chains. Save a few grams or a few €/$/¥

[@slayerofgrams]

I have to confirm what some of the commenter are saying, the xt/ultegra chain is much more prone to surface rust… for that reason alone I will stick with the DA chain ;)

[@fukairen9601]

I will always go dura ace cause it is fully SIL-TEC coating.

[@Zozas_The_Cyclist]

This. Ultegra/XT chains get rust spots easily even if proper maintenance is done

[@roadcyclist1]

​@The14b88 my ultegra chain got rust spots after one crit race in the rain.

[@fukairen9601]

@@roadcyclist1 My previous 105 chain got rust spot on outer plate very fast, but the coated inner plate had almost zero rust. So I switched to DA, so far didn’t see any rust.

[@bikingchupei2447]

@@fukairen9601 same here, i even did a video of me cleaning the rust off the outer plates on the 8100 chain, had enough and switched to 9100 today.

[@otterspacejam]

Dura-Ace is most durable non SRAM flat top chain but is also fairly light (lightest Shimano) and fairly fast so is the goldilocks chain for most not on SRAM. YBN is faster and lighter (18.53g on my bike) but shifts a bit worse without HG shaping and is less durable which is mitigated when immersive waxing. If you are Immersive waxing it is good to have a few chains in rotation to simplify swapping and prepping and reduce wear so I just run a rotation of both and view the YBN as a race day chain.

[@bikingchupei2447]

currently using the ultegra m8100 chain, these rust like crazy, just letting the bike sit in the garage for several days and surface rust appears.

[@roadcyclist1]

Yup, mine rusted out pretty fast as well

[@msironen]

I bought several DA/XTR 11-speed chains a few years back even though I didn't need them at the time because someone (probably either bike24 or bike-discount) were selling them for like 30e a pop.

[@antoinedoinell]

I've always bought XT/ultegra chains, but recently watched another vid saying the XTR/DuraAce chains are worth the extra money because of how much longer they last. In the long run you save more money and weight! It seems like a no brainer. Def my next purchase.

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

Also they are more efficient. You'll save like 1 watt.

[@lee1987923]

I am scared to buy shimano chain for lower price that there are so many counterfeits.

[@brandontuomela8860]

I bought some knockoff dura-ace chains from ali express and had it break on a climb within a week. Not worth it plus they were pretty obvious fakes when next to a real one.

[@SonnyDarvish]

For wax, following ZFC's test results, I have been using Marioposa's wax and the chain simply doesn't die. For the first time, I am buying new chain links because they're getting too loose.

[@msironen]

How have you liked the Mariposa wax? I recently switched from Squirt and I have some issues with it. First of all, it's really messy (at least compared to Squirt). If you have to handle the chain at all even after little bit of riding, your fingers will be completely black in an instant. The only plus side is that the mess cleans much easier than regular oil-based lube. Second is that the chain gets noisy after only 100-150kms unless you've done like 2-3 applications. Again, never had this issue with Squirt. Maybe it's much better for wear prevention like ZFC claims, but I'm seriously thinking about going back to Squirt after I use up the Mariposa wax. The overall experience is just kinda bad.

[@SonnyDarvish]

@@msironen you described it very well :) it’s the least clean wax-based I owned. It’s sunflower oil based. I also have UFO and squirt which are cleaner, but UFO is harder to apply when temperatures go down.

[@timtaylor9590]

if you wax chains weigh both after waxing, the hollow pins on the da chain fill with wax which makes it heavier than the ultegra one. and you can enjoy poking the wax out of each hole to get those grams back.

[@sabamacx]

It's like 1.5gr in additional weight.

[@two-eyedRoy]

HEY Hey hey! Weightweenie-ing isn't about the real world, ma-an. Is all about raw facts, and n-th degree weight is still weight. Therefore all KOM records should be done at night so you're not weighted down with photons and UV. 😉😁

[@timtaylor9590]

@@sabamacx tungsten disulfide is heavy, ptfe isnt, silica is in between maybe

[@marcbryant8482]

Shame the YBN is cost prohibitive as I found they are crazy light by comparison. Genuinely thought it was made of plastic when first unboxed.

[@Di2_GP]

Have a look at SLX CN-M7100 it's cheaper than Dura-Ace and Ultegra but it's better than Ultegra as it has SIL-TEC Roller link plate :-)

[@thedownunderverse]

Really? Where can i see the specs?

[@mikekingery9913]

@@thedownunderverse on the Shimano website itself.

[@thedownunderverse]

@@mikekingery9913 ultegra has the same

[@bikingchupei2447]

na, just buy the dura ace, 7100 has sil tec on the roller link plates while the 8100 has chromizing, i never had rust on the roller link plates from my 8100 because of the chromizing but the outer link plates rust like crazy, cause both 7100 and 8100 have this what shimano called gray stuff on their outer link plates which is useless.

[@roadkill_toronto]

Now can you wax both and weigh them please and thank you. Bonus clip could be how much wax weight is in the hollow pins and how long it takes to try to clean them out.. 😎

[@roadkill_toronto]

I’m also wondering if the sil tec coating is bad for waxing because of the coating helping to remove the wax quicker. 105 chains also have sil tec, but only inside the plates and offer a super narrow version CN-HG601-11 that I’m convinced holds wax better because there is less gaps for it to escape from. Before you ask its 257 grams. 😉

[@cornelius883]

That s something i was expacting of pur beloved slayer of gramms ;) I was woundering the Same. The XT Must be lighter After waxing…

[@jonathanzappala]

Half of me wonders if it was a conspiracy to get me to pay more, but I definitely only buy shimano dura ace chains now from an authorized online bike shop now. Jenson USA has been the one for me last few years.

[@glennmorgan8691]

The xtr 12sp will outlast the xt chain because more parts in the xtr have been sil tec coating on more chain parts...I just finally wore out a xtr 12 sp shimano chain on my chain eating e-mtb,silca hot melt from new got 4200 kms on it!!!Cheers!!!

[@slayerofgrams]

Was trying to figure out the Sil-tec situation but couldn't find any "official" accounts other than that both are Sil-tec treated. So in the XT 8100 case, is it only the rollers that are coated?

[@Eirikkinserdal]

4200km? You should expect 10000km+ on wax 😅 on the other hand KM is a bit misleading. It should be measured in torque applied over x amount of revolutions 🤔

[@glennmorgan8691]

@@Eirikkinserdal e-mtb's are mid drive equiped all the power goes through the chain not like hub drives.you'll never get any where near 10000kms on them.

[@glennmorgan8691]

@@slayerofgrams that sounds about right,non of the manufactures tell you what parts they treat and which ones they don't,I've been told the higher up the food chain you go the more parts are sil tec'ed with shimano anyways.

[@chrisko6439]

Josh Poertner said, I think the data is from Ceramic Speed's testing, that Dura Ace chains are amongst the fastest, because the coating on more (all?) parts

[@jeskli11]

That was the 11 speed stuff, the 12 speed chains are based on ZFC data pretty much identical in terms of longevity and performance.

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

If you're a weight weenie and outside Japan, and you're going to wax - wouldn't it only make sense to use a KMC chain? They are lighter. And maybe cheaper? I think they have a shorter lifespan than Shimano but if you're waxing that might not matter much When I took off the KMC that came on my TCR (and is probably a low-cost chain) I was surprised how much lighter it is than a Dura Ace. I wasn't thinking about weight but it was obvious just from picking them up

[@carlosvf11]

Hi, I have the doubt about if lighter hollow pin chains become heavier than standard pin chains when immersive wax them. I found the hollow pins been full of useless wax in this area. Maybe I'm wrong🙀

[@slayerofgrams]

Don’t tell the chain wax mafia, but I’m on your page 🫣

[@otterspacejam]

Yes hollow will store more wax but no it won't be heavier than a non hollow pin. Wax is significantly lighter (~8.5x) per volume than steel [7,850 kg/m^3 steel vs 900 kg/m^3 paraffin]. At most you are adding around 2g of extra wax to hollow pin and plates vs the wax added to a non hollow pin chain. 2g is far less than the weight savings of hollow metal parts. The bigger user impact is a plate with extra cutouts will flake off more excess wax on your chainstay but lubrication of this portion of the chain doesn't impact efficiency.

[@kallewirsch7915]

How do you get rid of the factory grease, please? Is there an easy way? Thanks!

[@SJworne]

Soak in petrol or white/mineral spirits over night, wash a couple of times in fresh spirit then isopropyl alcohol to clean off any last residue 👍🏻

[@markxkovacic]

Silca chain stripper.

[@Eirikkinserdal]

The 11 speed dura ace chain was a bit better than the ultegra at least 🤔

[@dopeone700]

Dura Ace chains work better compared to ultegra!!

[@Heizie999]

ok, m7100 258,5g and cost 24,5€

[@frankb.1284]

Hi there!, don’t know if you are sponsored by Shimano but if not, you should try Sram Red cassette, chain and rear mech with the THM crankset. It’s incredibly smooth and silent. To top it all off, use Silca Synergetic lube. Cheers!

[@chrisko6439]

Josh Poertner from Silca will tell you that SRAM chains are slow; they are amongst the WORST. You might wanna check out the interview Dylan Johnson did with Josh on the topic.

[@frankb.1284]

I’m talking about smoothness, i don’t care about speed since I don’t race anymore.

[@batbawls]

10.3g FATALITY

[@dgianstefani5694]

DA chain has a superior alloy that has inherent performance advantages, not just weight. They last longer. 2/3 of price for 2/3 of durability for the Ultegra one.

[@freshchive]

anyone ever removed the wax from the hollow pins? 🤓

[@gregboyd5815]

FWIW the wax is easily pushed out of the hollow link with a suitably sized pin punch. The pile of little cylindrical pieces of wax fail to register on my scale that has a resolution of 1 gram and max load of 200grams. Worst case, allowing for scale accuracy it 1- 2 grams of wax. Probably better to leave the wax in the hollow link as that will stop other crap accumulating in the hollow link

[@InS1Nuate]

YBN chains are silky

[@germurphy4986]

Found the top end chains not as durable before!

[@stellasuppa81]

i think his m8100 is fake usually legit chains come with 3 shinny dashes like the m9100 i could be wrong.

[@bikingchupei2447]

you are wrong, 8100 comes with 2 silver dashes while 9100 comes with 3 gold dashes.

[@romanpramuka2703]

I'm using only DA chains, not only for weight saving, but for better durability. Of course I'm immersive waxing my chains.

[@jeskli11]

According to ZFC data, those two chains are pretty much identical in terms of longevity as well as performance.

[@redauwg911]

@@jeskli11 What do you recommend for 10 speed . I don't wax and want durability ?

[@romanpramuka2703]

​@@redauwg911If you want durability, you should waxing your chains. If not, maybe Rex Black diamond is the best.

[@romanpramuka2703]

​@@jeskli11there is not huge, but a noticeable difference in longevity, combined with weight saving, DA is the winner. Also I bought them for less than 10€ difference from Ultegra.

[@jeskli11]

@@redauwg911 Hard to say as ZFC only has one 10 speed chain in their test data. From the trend of 11 and 12 speed chains I would expect high-end Shimano chains (XT/Ultegra and XTR/Dura-Ace) to be very solid overall performers, high-end Sram chains to be slower, but longest lasting and YBN and KMC to be the fastest, but not that durable. However, hot melt wax vastly improves any chain in terms of both speed and longevity, so I'd highly recommend you trying that.

[@rubendeklerkdeklerkperform5501]

This generation ultegra chains rust very easily

[@bikingchupei2447]

agreed, no idea why, the 11 speeds were fine.

[@christocan4710]

May I ask? I am heaving a really hard time with the Quick Links. They never close. I used special pliers and also I stomped on the pedal with full force and still it didn’t “close” more than half. In my view it’s a terrible system/invention. Any tips?

Make sure the quicklink is on the top part of chain path when stomping the pedals, otherwise it doesn't work.

[@christocan4710]

Sure. I definitely did that wrong. Great advice. (Irony. In case you wonder.)

[@christocan4710]

Stomping might be done by everybody but the pliers should work too. It’s a bad system. Maybe it was because I stripped the chain and put it on dry without wax.

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

@@christocan4710 They should close really easily when pressing down on the pedal (you don't actually have to stomp at all).. I never heard of it not working for anyone but it seems like you were offended by the first guy to advise you. The other thing to check is that the quick link is actually in the right position and ready to be closed (look close at the spacing, making sure each link is inserted as far as it goes and the outer link is aligned with the thinner parts of the pins)

[@christocan4710]

@@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv I have done all that. I am a total perfectionist. I had three new links and they all were the same. In the end I got them in by opening them after half way in and then stomping on the pedal again. Tolerances are just too tight. Simple as that. No chance to get it done when out and about.

[@docmccoy9813]

Nope

[@paulsymons562]

Honestly. All this navel gazing over a chain. Just buy a KMC and be done with it.