YAYAYAYA IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED - DIE HWAYOUNG DIE [Smilegate Finally Caves!]

[@CanyouTheMan]

It's been 9 months since they released Hwayoung. In the meantime, they added two new characters (Taeyou and Yuhla) and buffed several heroes(Ras, DJB, Ice Coli, Cidd, and Choux) just to deal with her, and they STILL had to nerf her. What a disaster of a character.

[@tundranocaps]

TBH, the real mark of how much she warped the game was that the RTA Changes - 30% DR to strong element on defence, nerfing attack scaling and barriers, were all aimed at Hwayoung. Hopefully they'll change Taeyou to be fire as he was always meant to be. As for Yulha? I'm pretty sure she was supposed to have ML Elena's kit, and be a ranger...

[@Lunamana]

They didn't buff acoli did they ? I think that was blue coli that they buffed

[@JazzCabbagE7]

Id say aria was even a counter release, and now aria actually counters her because she cant pen 100 percent def

[@atlasblast2082]

They buffed Aravi in that time

[@CanyouTheMan]

@@Lunamana You're right, my bad.

[@fradiavalo666]

"I will always have a soft spot of hatred for Hwayoung" -Dr. Squirrel, October 2022

[@asherheiwada5056]

I can feel the joy in your voice 💀

[@DrSquirrel]

VERY JOYFUL SQUIRREL. It is incredibly gratifying because I've been saying that nerfs are the only viable long term solution for forever. And people were constantly dumping on me for it saying "SG will never do it you're an idiot." TIME FOR THOSE GUYS TO EAT CROW. And honestly, I'm less happy about the Hwayoung nerfs and more happy about the precedent it sets. Now that nerfs are back on the table, it means the moronic "never nerf" policy is officially in the grave.

[@someoneelse4939]

@@DrSquirrel Maybe for covenant heroes, but the "no nerf" policy will probably still be ironclad as far as Limited and ML units are concerned.

[@boiri]

​@@someoneelse4939 limited units shouldn't be nerfed given they're limited status.

[@raze2012_]

it's whiplash coming from Shotgun shogun's video.

[@ravalar89]

@@DrSquirrel they'll never nerf ml to not let players give selector, dont be stupid

[@Rohit-om3yz]

Another thing with her s1 is now it makes it less consistent against ice units. It was kind of brutal it dropped a rem into sigurd range with one atk buff s1 and she could kill ice units with s1 consistently if they didnt have suitable healing behind them. As long as they buff her s3 damage right she should still be a very viable unit into tanky comps. Also I think they didnt get rid of the innate s2 attack increase cause of the uberius viability she provides(Think the only hero to use it and many people bottled it) and her barrier scales with it.I would have preferred if they made her s1 additional damage not stack with uberius though and only one of them apply,whichever one is higher.

[@ludolphj1388]

Atk based heros like riolet,violet, sage vivian, Roy. Even units that are not suppose to die from one shots die to hwayoung additional dmg making them not really viable in pvp.

[@that1guy375]

The Squirrel dances on her grave as her family grieves. SG didn't have to murder her lol.

[@chinonotonyoutube]

I knew you would be so happy LMAOO I was just waiting for your video to come out cuz I'd be hearing the joy for your voice! I'm quite happy with the nerfs because she was just so OP

[@Rdezzle]

Meh. Great that they nerfed her, but I don't that think that this indicates SmileGate normalizing everyone in the future. They will never touch ML units after the meltdown with SB Ara and Sage Baal. Hwayoung is RGB, so SG has more lenience with handling her.

[@TZ-hm3yj]

I'm fine with the nerf as long as she can still do her intended job (one shot 25k+ hp units w/ proper setup) and if they also tone down (not gut) the units that she was meant to deal with. I Also hope that they plan to rebalance yulha since she was specifically made to counter hwayoung (even if only in gvg/arena). On a side note, for something like this, they could show a before/after comparison on high and low hp units to attempt to alleviate concern from the community (if they would show the stats on the gear while doing it) to show how it would look instead of leaving it to the imagination. Though I'm sure that there would still be people on both sides complaining regardless.

[@jekmr84]

What's happens if ppl adjust and no longer build units at 25k hp? She had plenty of ways to be killed and I never had a problem killing any hwayoung and I don't have God gear. Ppl need to learn to adapt and play better.

[@RedgectX]

To do same damage, they should increase her s3 damage up to 120%, no way they do this.

[@GodwynDi]

@@jekmr84 If the units are lower HP other units can deal with them.

[@jekmr84]

@@GodwynDi my aravi Is 18k and rarely is oneshotted by hwayoung lol my hway is 11k and can one shot most aravi not all but after I feel like she won't do that. And aravi will become a monster so they need to nerf alot more and make them all mid so ppl get bored. Cuz that's healthy for a game... Boredom lol

[@akanta5746]

@@jekmr84 if your a cleaver then hwa isn't much of a problem if you're a bruiser/standard player (aka 90% of the playerbase) then hwa is a nightmare

[@nopedefnope9924]

As a returning player I was pleased to have an opportunity to use the selector for Hwayoung; a character who, to me, represented an apology from SG for their absolutely rigged gear rolling system. Was easier to build and somewhat made up for all the hundreds or thousands I never spent trying to build a cleave team. I completely agree she was busted, but choose to remain in the camp that wants to see more units w lower gear requirements that can still preform reasonably. Everything said, I think she was over-nerfed.

[@Deathf1ame]

She will still have low gear requirements and will perform reasonably (doing 16k to a full tank in one hit is very reasonable considering she will still have dmg mitigation and barriers). The problem is that people will always compare her now to her OP state even if she becomes now just a great unit instead of a busted one

[@GodwynDi]

@@Deathf1ame That was also why she needed the nerf. Every single character that came out would be reviewed as "skip not as good as Hwa."

[@akanta5746]

if you wwant to compete with cleave as a f2p just use rng units like senya

[@Gabby-jv3ip]

I feel like she was the necessary evil for aravi existing but hey maybe someday

[@AnomalyVoid]

Exactly what I thought. Aravi was oppressive but she was replaced by another oppressor.

[@llehsneergl1121]

it wont much of a change against aravis since aravi stack more than enough hp. the change will be against squishies and def scalers. The real nerf is the cooldown. Everything else is just readjusted as it was supposed to be.

[@mchlup]

A. Ravi needs to be next. That is all!

[@meltryllis3983]

I feel that a lot of players are exaggerating saying that hwayoung is dead. She still looks fine in my opinion but it's best to wait for the nerf to come before we reach a verdict. Honestly pretty happy with the nerf cause i hated that every damage hero (like ml pavel) must go through the hwayoung measuring stick

[@SavaZalen]

i just hope she is still a good aravi counter

[@dedpenguin]

Even when they only buff, it still caused controversy. So why not just bring nerf back lol. Especially this one is well deserves.

[@yololoyo7379]

Aravi should be next imo, since Hwayoung main objective is too kill units like Aravi asap. Also they need to adjust Yulha since she's made as a counter to Hwayoung

[@andrewaguayo115]

@@yololoyo7379 yes please, gimme that ml selector 👍🏻 I don’t mind a Ravi being nerfed if that means a ml 5* selector. I did invest a lot into her

[@HeroSosh]

Like u said early in the video, that SG’S strategy in ‘balancing units and pick rates’ was to release more units that countered a specific unit, isn’t good in the long run.. like, releasing 2-3 units that semi Counter hwayoung.. what if ure a new player and don’t really follow the meta or even consume other sorts of media that revolve around e7? What if ure just a casual and don’t have the resources to summmon all these extra unit’s, plus max mola them, or give them godly gear that those units need.. what if ure just a casual player in either arena, gw, or rta and constantly getting blasted by these busted units like hwayoung, a-Ravi, clilias, aol, Belian etc.. which is why I been saying for awhile that e7 is pay to win cause only the whales that go out and drop 1200$ to SSS a new ml5 with +30 limited artifacts.. those are the players u run into in high level rta/legend players so it’s seemingly impossible to compete against that as a f2p or little dolphin. so it’s odd that they try to make this game an esports category.. but I’m sure they’re just fine with all the whales over there at smile gate

[@GodwynDi]

Nah. You can compete without paying, but it requires a long playtime. Plenty of F2P or minor spenders in Emperor.

[@brads3484]

I bet they'll add some of her attack % back and maybe the 15% CR boost and/or -1 CD on S3 thru future exclusive equipment. But i think for now SG would rather over nerf her than have to do this again.

[@permeus2nd]

Now if they could fix their severs so it stops showing you connecting forever then it hits a time error, I don't know what they did in the last update but there connection has been horrid since. I haven't been able to game in days.

[@Aparent22]

Unless they plan to nerf A.Ravi, all that it does is offer one less option for the F2P players in dealing with tanky teams. Me personaly, i only picked her in Arena against BS teams like A Ravi, Troublemaker, Archdemon , Ruelle, that takes a day to get through them.

[@ryanwest6035]

Please summon limited Fire Warrior Arunka in 1-2 months time F2P player, if you miss out please wait another year.

[@akanta5746]

f2p players are mostly the ones that use tanky teams. Tank/bruiser/double soul weaver might require lot of units, but they don't require a lot of speed/high gs gear, which is infinitely harder to get than units. If units like aravi and hwa are nerfed, all it will do is make cleave dominant, which fucks the f2p over even harder. 99% of F2P's can never dream of cleaving to champion+, while 90+% of whales are cleavers. Troublemaker in particular is extremely balanced. Horrible in bruiser v bruiser, good in bruiser v cleave. What you're proposing is to go back to the days of ran seaseria and green pavel -- the worst season in all of e7 history for f2p players. either you're not f2p, or you're not high rank, because your proposal would kill the game for f2p's. Take it from a f2p player in emp -- the only reason I could climb that high was because I relied on RNG units like rem, senya, ameru, and choux in EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Because if you can't compete in gear with the whale cleavers and you can't compete in hero pools with the whale cleavers, you have to compete in RNG -- the only place where f2p's can win.

[@DrSquirrel]

Going to sum up my thoughts here for people who don't have time to watch the whole video, and to pre-empt any of the common responses I know we'll have. 1) Hwayoung is an obviously broken unit that NEEDED nerfs. She did everything too well. Hit too hard, was too fast, and was far too tanky. Everyone's been stuck in a 3v1 situation against Hwayoung where you literally can't get through her barrier and she just cycles through and S3s your entire team. Something needed to be done, even if they just kept her damage the same and got rid of her built in barrier and reduced her damage mitigation. 2) People will say she was a necessary evil because of things like ARavi. This has some truth to it, but it doesnt change the fact that Hwayoung was absurd. If Aravi is next, I fully support that because she is busted too. The reality is that SG is probably more scared to nerf MLs because people actually spend a lot of money on mystics for those, and SG is concerned about backlash and people asking for refunds. Is this right? No, it's pretty messed up but they are a business so no surprise there. They're probably using this as a test to see how much backlash they get before targeting MLs, because its obvious from pick/ban rates that Aravi/Clilias are also in need of nerfs. 3) Nerfs are overall healthy for the game. The reality is people will complain. When it comes down to it, people complain when heroes they dont have are broken, but they're perfectly happy when the stuff that they DO have is broken. It should have been obvious to everyone how overtuned Hwayoung is, but people still defended her. And it just came down to the fact that a lot more people were able to get Hwayoung than the broken MLs out there that people are salty about not having. 4) Oh one more. Don't think that Hwayoung is useless post-nerf. I think what they were attempting (and SHOULD) do, is retain her ability to deal with high HP bruisers while GETTING RID OF her ability to also easily one shot LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE in the game. If they wanted her to deal with Aravi fine. But the fact that she could also one shot stuff in the game under 12k hp with 1 shot on S1s was totally out of line. So hopefully, she still does well in her INTENDED role moving forward without also blowing everything else up.

[@Gameplayer38706]

Preach I want SG's to nerf these units with no selector just make the game balance and im happy

[@reigncyan2427]

Agreed but man look at the community right now, totally chaos. When SG decided to nerf a unit, I thought people would be supportive since we are one that ask for nerf and keep memeing about the no nerf policy.

[@Gameplayer38706]

@@reigncyan2427 Thats the point we want nerfs but there are people left and right saying the buffs went to hard or those werent enough (which no ones says they werent enough). I think the nerf was a bit to much but still fine since they can buff it again later. Some people actually relayed on hwa to actually take care of everything evasion to counter units and tanks but thats wrong she was released to be a tank killer with some damage on the side

[@djsanders4813]

Lol you're pretty delusional if you think she's gonna be used literally at all now. If she could kill a tank with these nerfs, then sure. But she won't be able to. Like at all. Hwayoung will kill absolutely nothing now with these nerfs. They nerfed her far too much. I get you bias against her is shining here, but to think she's gonna be a tank buster is pretty naive. She already can't kill tanks without vigor + attack buffs if they have literally any piece of mitigation, which was her original job. Not that they're nerfing her damage against all enemies (The attack decrease namely), she'd be lucky to break 60% of a decently built tanks HP, and then after that she's literally a waste of a team slot.

[@Gameplayer38706]

@@djsanders4813 Chill homie all we gotta do is wait and see how she is after shes changed look at what happend with alencia people said they nerfed her damage oh shes trash but look shes used and is a solid aravi counter with injury set on we gotta wait

[@RevilloPhoenix]

The highest benefactors of the fact that she no longer has def pen on low hp units is the def scaling units she was also so good against before. People like Dilibet and LHC.

[@EmperorAelius]

Yes please. Whenever a new unit is released, you always compare it to Hwayoung 😂 Why build or pick this, when you have Hwayoung 😂 she basically nullifies future units because she doesnot fckign care about element disadvantage. She was designed to one shot tanky heroes but for some reason also one shots squishy ones thus all heroes basically 😂 i ve played summoners war there's no such kit as broken as this. At least aravi is only like a ticking time bomb, but hwayoung you have to kill it on first turn.. else youre dead 😂 also finally people will be using their brain cuz gw offense is all hwayoung cheat code. I hate this kit, makes people brain dead.

[@SuperPrinny886]

Yeah for nerfs but boo for recall tickets. This one I'll accept since I know majority of players picked Hwayoung on the 5 star selector. Anyone remember Coli? The "hard counter" to Hwayoung Shotgun shogun is having a fit now screaming that the community sucks they are all stupid, Devs should only listen to him and his high ranking friends and so on.

[@ryanwest6035]

Blue Coli shits on Hwayoung. Any Speed opener into Eda shits on Hwayoung. Turn 2 players are the main people who cry about Hwayoung, hope the nerfed version still shits on you.

[@Phoenixguyver]

As someone who just started to get her built and this. FML

[@yeon1080]

I only built hwayoung to scare people in rta so they fuck up their ban in lower ranks, Guess Senya is coming home on the 27th

[@Seadrake]

Am I sad she's getting nerfed ? A little. I was also depending way less on her recently. Do I think she was doing way too much ? Totally. Will she be trash after the nerf ? Probably not. But like you, I'm mostly happy for the precedent that nerfs are on the table as a balancing tool.

[@_LlVE_]

I would be even more happy if A Ravi get nerfed as well. Though, I doubt that would happen. I don't think they would want to hand out selector for ML 5.

[@PTAdrock]

Good, because of her we now have other BS units to deal with. yes we are still stuck with the "counter" units but the fact that hwa can just boot anything, any color like it's nothing was a problem.

[@takarahayashi4124]

you hit the nail on the head brother, and they said she's just the first reveal and they'll be announcing more nerfs as it nears the 27th. I hate that everyone just use the same comps with 1 or 2 wildcards at most. how about you be more creative than just "pick strongest and win", where's the strategy in that?

[@dannyrivas7284]

ok the counter to A Ravi and Violet got nerfed now who do we use?

[@yondangus7648]

Zahhak krau stene ml Elena solitaria Charlotte Ravi pyllis carrot and symbol of unity all come to mind for violet. Alencia senya choux lqc stene sylvian come to mind for aravi. As a matter of fact hwa will still be good against aravi too if SG is right when they say she'll remain specialized at dealing with high HP units

[@PSandNintendFreak]

I would be totally on board with the nerfs, if they actually cared about balance. Nerfing Hwa while an about to be released menace like Lua is on the horizon and things like a broken M5 in the disguise of an ML4 unit called AOL and other busted ML5s that are hard to obtain for normal players/spenders like Cilias, A.Ravi,Handyguy and so on still exist, which we know they will not touch as MLs make them the moneyz, feels a bit hypocritical. I do think she needed changes and people denying that are also hypocritical, but if Smilegate solely nails Hwa to the cross to make an example and does nothing about all the other broken OP units and continues to release broken units/does nothing about the gear gap newer players or people with bad account luck face not a lot will change.

[@DrSquirrel]

Yes thats fair, she is hopeless busted but she's not the only one that needs to be toned down. I think SG is using a non ML as a test run, because gutting MLs is going to infuriate people who bought 600 bucks worth of mystics to get em. Is that right? Nope. But SG is a business and ultimately they're gonna care about their cash cows more =/

[@PSandNintendFreak]

​@@DrSquirrel I 100% agree with you, this is most likely a test run and as a business they have to cater to their cash cows. My biggest fear is that Smilegate´s takeaway from this will be "people hate nerfs in general, see, that´s why we never do nerfs", instead of rethinking their communication methods, balancing cycle/output and the fact that a lot of people actually like that Hwa was nerfed, but feel it was overkill. If they do nerfs (and for buffs as well), give us the actual numbers/multipliers, that way people know whats up, even the greedy as f Fate Grand Order gives out the stats. And if they finally start to balance their balance patches instead of it going from 0 to 100 or vice versa hit or miss kinda changes almost everytime, so when they start to buff AND nerf units it might open up more and more other/older units to be viable again, thus giving newer players reasons to pull for more characters other than Ran, Hwa, A. Ravi, Cilias, Handguy, etc. I mean who would want to pull for things like Captain Flan or Yufine? Those are dead banners, other than waifu lovers who pull for anthying that has a heartbeat, boobas, armpits, a butt and feet. Also it kills all the excitement for galaxy bookmarks when the ML5 someone finally pulls is a dead off meta unit that has been like that for years, because a handful of them are so broken and opressive, they outshine them completely. Who cares about galaxy bookmarks at this point? I really hope that Smilegate looks at why most people did not like the Hwa nerfs, ss in most people think the nerfs were too much plus with no actual numbers speculation runs wild and continue to think about nerfing other units, including MLs.

[@theroguenob]

The problem is that we don't have any good answer to one shot slime boy or senya they are about to skyrocket and Aravi is already Op as fuck but straze nukes her easily now. Now really milim/Charlotte is the only counter to violet with so many great ice units fire units get slugged back down to the worst element. That's the only issue I see since now we have no counters to those said heroes so I'm curious where they'll change others like ken for example

[@DrSquirrel]

Uberius still works as far as I know so Hwayoung still does much better against evasion heroes than every other unit without built in hit chance. She just 2-3 shots them instead of one shotting them on misses now. Like Hwayoung 1 shotting riolets on misses with S1 was just moronic. I'd still consider her a violet counter.

[@theroguenob]

@@DrSquirrel so what would be a good counter for rimiru and senya? Only control really works but other fire units can't really fight them. Alenica can maybe beat senya if she can strip but slime boy is a whole other story

[@alangrg4491]

Hopefully A.Ravi gets a nerf soon as well. Counter units like Violet are getting weaker with new units release. Rimeru will always be good in most metas and Senya is back on the meta but if have a really hard time dealing with her use Underrated units like Zahhak who is good into Violets as well. In terms of fire units being the worst element in the game,that just means SG needs to buff more fire units like Ken not just get carried by 1 single fire unit Hwayoung.

[@theroguenob]

@@alangrg4491 zahhak is gear hungry and I'm not a whale I don't have all the gear to pull from. Honestly rimiru needs a nerf just as much as Aravi does with that ignore element type and even the 18k proof ones can still one shot anything below 14k hp with ease

[@alangrg4491]

@@theroguenob for rta maybe he is gear hungry but not really for GW.

[@kheatshadows]

that girl didn't play by the books, so she had to be killed off haha. i had to pvp someone with her just the other day, it was like she was invincible and forever in a bubble for some odd reason.

[@GoldyGoldmembers]

Regardless of how you feel about her being busted or not, she was released as is to deal with the bulkier units such as a ravi and the rest of the great disasters. With her getting nerfed I'd wager we're going back to the previous meta which includes the evasion/counter meta. As to the nerf itself, I think her S3 deleting enemies with the same or less hp as her was an issue because as it was obvious to anyone with a functioning pair of peepers, she was deleting fucking everything, seemingly struggling only with PoV units. So the health difference changes to her S3 are fair. The +1 CD, while tough to accept, makes sense in that it will balance out how she could be slightly on the tankier side with her bubble so she could quickly cycle the skill again. Her S2 changes are a bit harsh, but if they're increasing the damage dealt increased, that should offset it by a bit. While we're talking about the "Damage Dealt Increased" notes, they really should show the numbers behind that increase/decrease, because for all we know it could be a simple +/- 1 change and it technically wouldn't be a lie. It'd also help people make their decision as to whether or not to recall her when the changes take place. The one change I don't care for is the S1 and I feel it should have been left unmolested. Her S3 already got a +1 CD so the 15% cr boost isn't as oppressive, if it really ever was. I can take it or leave the CR removal, but the whole requiring a successful attack for additional damage is garbage. So with her being nerfed in such a way, does that mean the rest of the disasters on the chopping block? I can only hope so, but I won't hold my breath. Judging with how long it took for them to take back their stupid no nerf policy, I'd wager SG would rather slither over a mile long path of broken glass and lemon juice before giving out ML selectors again. In the meantime, I guess I should look into building a violet counter, because you know the purple headed bastard is coming back with a shit eating grin on his face. Also i wish they'd get some people on their balancing team that actually played the fucking game so we could avoid having busted ass units that lead to this whole shit show in the first place. Ah, to dream.

[@Gameplayer38706]

Yes build violet and rimuru so i can beat people with buffed fire ravi and kayron there are counters now to the evasion/counter meta (Ml elena and others) as for hwas changes it seems like she still does her job and its good to have a unit nerfed so they can have counters they should do it to aravi but only allow a recall not a selector. Hwa being nerfed like this way just brings up more hope that they will atleast allow the 15% cr push to slip by in another balance patch so meh its positive

[@mrshadowcape]

nooooo i just got her from covenant select ticket...ah well i guess nerfs being back on the table does encourage spending more money on pulling new units so that makes sense for smilegate to do i guess.

[@DSKBR556]

any chance we can get a meta overview for the last 2 weeks of the season for those of us looking to push?

[@rex.raymond]

As someone who had to pity Hwayoung, I'm happy with the nerfs. Ever since I branched out into PvP, I never realized how much of terror she was. A 12k HP Hwa shouldn't be able to one shot my 14k HP 2k def Dilibet through Aurius nor should she be able to kill my 16k HP Emilia on a miss. And now reading her changes made me realize she ALWAYS penetrate defense regardless and gets a damage increase if the target has higher HP. That means she ALWAYS deal TRUE DAMAGE with additional damage the scales with the difference in the target's HP before even Tooth procs. Now they made it so that she no longer penetrates defense automatically and will only be able to disregard defenses the higher the target's max HP which is what I initially thought how she functions.

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

I didn't know it would be that hard but I kinda knew it when I skipped Yulha's banner like the plague, they released a unit that actually has just ONE job, even without the nerfs it was a red flag all the way xD I mean, she is still arguably a better DC since she can S3 when she wants to but the dude has extinction.

[@jsn585]

it’s like they don’t even test these heroes at all

[@bumblebee51]

I think people rage too much. We need to wait for her multipliers first. Everyone "thinks" she can't one shot a tank anymore. I'm like are you a psychic?

[@MyrdinAnnoth]

I support returning of nerfs to the game. Hell give out recalls if you need to when nerfing, so you can start doing them consistently. But I strongly dislike the typical SG knee je*k reaction over the top nerfs. This is literally like when the Buff power creep started year and half ago (or was it 2 by this point ?). The same now with Hwayoung but in reverse. This nerf is kind of a overkill. The S3 change is good and it should have been like this since release. One extra turn and changed scaling is pretty big deal. But now after increasing the cooldown by one more turn while also reducing her S1 rotation by fully removing the CR, removing the additional dmg on miss AND nerfing S2 by 20% ? Was Hwayoung toxic ? Absolutely. Is this nerf hardly called "balanced" heavy handed and will leave her dumpstered ? Yes and probably yes. Also the vider implications of this are not exactly great unless they start mass nerfing all the broken sh*t alongside with her. After all remind yourself: Hwayoung exists only because ARavi was running rampant. Same with Yulha and Taeyou who was probably meant to be a entirely different element hero. Yulha was just dumb 1 to 1 counter for GW bait. Now kinda without purpose. Unless they follow up on this nerf with all 7 disasters getting same treatment as Hwayoung, then the situation will only get worse from here on, Its gonna be ARavi, Violet and Rimuru all over the place again sigh.... Extremes like this dont make for a good balance. Especially when these people release one patch every two and half months or so, and are late to respond to everything. Hwa should have been adjusted max one month after release. Again, I support the return of nerfs. But I am seriously worried about the execution if this is how they wanna go about it. Just her S3 nerf by itself is big enough deal to severly reduce how oppresive she is. You need to see past your hatred for a specific hero. I want all the heroes to have a place and be solid, not a must pick nor a subpar one.

[@Dripkage2000]

Nah I'm happy. My Ml Cermia gets to live with her 12k hp and 2420 defence 295% crit damage agaisnt the highway speedster.

[@xhydrox]

I'm super happy. Finally, the in my opinion most broken and oppressive hero is finally getting nerfed. Now I can finally preban something else.

[@peoprie]

Hurts that all the investment in yuhla will become a waste

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

They should just make Uberius Tooth a more specialized artifact, like how Alencia's artifact has more use on herself then most other units, while still allowing some units the use of it, they should make it a Luna heavy artifact, IDK how but they can figure it out themselves. Just look at Mort's artifact, basically just used by him.

[@Xicor.]

I completely disagree. Making artifacts super niche is terrible because their value drops insanely and whenever you pull them, you become limited by unit availability on top of number of copies and context of battles. Even worse if they need to be +30d. It also hurts the diversity in the game because you're more likely to see one specific artifact always on one unit. Also, already as is, uberius is basically just hwa's arti, so what you're saying doesn't make sense, it's already a specialized artifact.

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

@@Xicor. Nah just saying though I agree that artifacts shouldn't be specialized, also Uberius Tooth has been going unchanged for years before Hwayoung was released, that Hwayoung benefits the most out of it doesn't make it a Hwayoung artifact, in fact it makes Hwayoung a unit created for the artifact. They could give it 15% crit chance or crit damage and make it so the extra damage only procs from crits and up the damage a little bit so units that cannot have 7k+ attack also see a use for it.

[@Xicor.]

@@Gacha-Ritual-Master I don't think hwa was created to intentionally run and specialize in uberius, but that was the outcome they didn't predict. Uberius was pretty shit before (so one step below specialized), but as a result of hwa using it so well, it reached specialization tier/level. But either way, since i disagree with specialized artifacts, I'd be fine with an uberius tooth change.

[@tundranocaps]

This year they finally started buffing "properly," meaning, not buffing every skill a unit has in 3 different ways, which led to overbuffing. A shame they still didn't learn to do the same with nerfs, and this from someone who kept telling them in every "Question of the week" that they can't warp the entire game around one unit and should just nerf them. Hopefully they'll start doing balance changes more often, and to more heroes, so we won't need to see this heavy-handed approach as they nerf, and buff, more heroes. The 50>30% attack decrease is something I dislike, cause it also hurts her barrier, and is "invisible" and too wide ranging. BTW, back when Rimuru released, I mathed it out, even at 3k attack, Uberius deals the mostdamage, cause unlike other artifacts, it only deals damage.

[@Xicor.]

I agree that she needed a nerf, very broke unit. Though imo the problem was, like you somewhat said, the fact that she had both offense AND defense, basically no drawbacks. So I'd have changed her shield and damage reduction mechanics, also increased S3 cooldown, and left everything else. But this hp diff part actually help achieve that goal too, so that's great. Just hoping that she doesn't lose her role of high HP/evasion killer (since we don't really have evasion counters iirc, or maybe they can make biseria that). Now to accordingly nerf Aravi and choux, as well as cilias, aol, ran, peira, etc.

[@excalibursonic32]

Christmas came in early this year : )

[@Puffsmoke876]

I love hwayoung now some of my matches get harder

[@dvamain2016]

I agree she needed nerfs, but this feels overkill. Not sure she will be worth using now. Also seems like Rimuru and Violet will be running around unchecked again. I find Rimuru more difficult to deal with than Hwayong.

[@Deathf1ame]

Violet should be in the backburner for now, its not like Hwa was the only thing keeping him in check. During the Hwa era SG has been introducing more "cannot trigger a counter attack" and incr hit chance, as long as you have the smarts you can deal with him. As the game should be rather than 'Hwa solves everything'

[@dvamain2016]

@@Deathf1ame Hwa was the best answer to him and the rest of his team. He is another hero that should be nerfed instead of releasing heroes to counter him.

[@Deathf1ame]

​@@dvamain2016 Hwa is the best answer to basically every character in the game. And that was the problem. T-surin, Roy, Sage Vivian, SCeline, Riolet, all vanish when she looks at them despite their entire identity being survivability. She is meant to be a tank buster, not a counter evasion unit.

[@dvamain2016]

@@Deathf1ame Yea problem is that violet pretty much was Hwa before her release. Cleanse, evasion, counter, self heal, self buffs, and even though he is green he beats most fire units in the game. Are you trying to say that violet is balanced? And before you answer remember specific units that were built to counter him do not make his kit balanced. Hwa have plenty of units that beat her easy but it did not make her kit balanced

[@Deathf1ame]

@@dvamain2016 I will confidently say Violet and Hwa are not on the same level, but no I am not trying to say that violet is balanced. Violet prior to his buff was balanced because he had a window where his evasion was down and you had to plan his apple so he had it up at the right time. Current Violet isn't balanced but also isn't on Hwa's level because he still relies on RNG to be dominant. That's why there are those who say their Violet is trash bc he doesn't evade. There are also artifacts and units that can cut into his evasion further. Lua will be able reset his S3 to remove his 35% evasion, and she definitely wasn't designed specifically to counter him. The options are just much more available vs Violet (Roana, Lermia, Milim, Zahhak, Hasol, SC Phyllis, Symbol of Unity, MISHA, Uberius tooth, Senya with arti) than Hwa (single unit damage strong enough to kill any other unit with less than 16k hp)

[@waelepips3751]

Spamming her in rta before nerf!

[@Pulak518]

Ok i agree that she needed a nerf but is this a good nerf? Is that s3 dmg increased enough to kill tanks? Will she do her job? What happens to yulha now? Will she get a buff like flan did to replace tylose and achieve the meme of her being green krau. What will happen to other cancers like a. Ravi and cilias? Is arunka a limited fire dps amd going to be the new cancer?

[@Pulak518]

Also wanna ask that can i use my hwayoung gear on senya? I probably can ,right?

[@awesome-tu4yq]

Yes you can use hwa gear on senya/ ml khawazu/carrot . I was watching elvemage and i have seen yulha being picked in legend in games without hwaeyoung

[@jekmr84]

Who would you use for selector? Idk any unit that can take care of a ravi

[@darklord407]

Alencia sends aravi back to the stone ages

[@jekmr84]

@@darklord407 only if u land def break and if she isn't on counter lol I'm not saying she can't be dealt with but a ravi is a monster without hwayoung. I'd rather fight hwayoung than aravi. She is easier to kill

[@Limbomber]

What's up with the giant black bar at the bottom. Is your OBS messed up or a new monitor?

[@animalcrossingcharacter_ex9717]

I'll move my hwa gear to ml ken and maybe they'll buff him

[@protozeloz]

To me this nerf was a bit too much, an overnerf can easily kill a unit entirely and I would have liked if they split the nerf in two rotations and see how she does, we still have toxic units like Rimuru, Aravi Clilias and no one bats an eye so I would like to see balance come to them too Also being honest they have done a terrible job with most of her counters Coli: more bleeds or a combination of bleed and burn could have always guaranteed a kill. Taeyou: his buff should have been how he shipped Yulha: was the only one actually usable in arena and GW Also I don't completely agree that the Choux buff was to counter Hwa because she could literally just kick her and she would die I think the reason they are changing her is because she's too consistent there is basically no RNG to what she does it makes any other DPS hero feel less desirable Yufine Evalern Cermia Top model And the like Have pretty much no reason to be picked or used anywhere. Their banners probably went by with no pulls Even FMA units don't seem that impressive when you factor that you can either play to RNG or just be consistant and pick her I think they only needed to do one big change for her to work Give her Fighting spirit and she can only S3 with that, then she can keep all of her kit

[@EmperorAelius]

Nah Cilias is fine she is only a support, leave her alone. There's Roana, Pylis, Moon Bunny, Peira, LHC and a lot more stuff that can counter her.

[@EmperorAelius]

I can only agree with you with the hwayoung over any other dps. 🤫

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

Well, let's see how the nerfs work before making assumptions, what I mean is to the people that are angry cuz Hwayoung was a good answer to A.Ravi, since her S3 is now more of a tank nuker it could even do a better job than her previous state at killing A.Ravi, if that's the case then the angry people are just angry that they cannot kill ANYONE with one skill use anymore v: though that 20% attack down is serious trouble.

[@djsanders4813]

I meeeeeeean, now she can't kill literally anyone, tanks or not. She already had trouble killing actual high hp tanks. And what about defense scaling tanks? Useless even more on that front. Hwa's dead lol. I mean I should be glad since I only play bruiser/counter cleave, but this just feels crappy.

[@mr.raccoon9506]

@@djsanders4813 you must have really shit ass gear on your hwayoung

[@llehsneergl1121]

she could be depending on the multipliers. She may have lost tons of attack but her multipliers got an increase, only with harder condition.

[@Brandon-sy7rk]

Yessssssssssss

[@chrisgonzales5335]

Idk how to feel about this, i dont play rta and I'm f2p so most of the time, hwayoung helps me out in pve, as long as she functions in pve i guess it doesnt matter but that -20% atk is so painful since I have shit gear. Maybe I will just recall her or something

[@steveg8707]

Wasnt gunther hwyayoung before all this?

[@ph-xx4eu]

Anyone who is mad this unit is nerfed probably doesn't enjoy the game at all. They are miserable people. It was painfully obvious how bad this unit was in every game mode. I rage-built Yulha for guild war after trying Krau then Aria who both got 1 shot by her s3. In rta I just ban her it's a no fun allowed unit and way worse than a.ravi ever was. A.Ravi while still a core rta unit is a little weaker than before due to meta shift and rebalances of alencia and choux.

[@cluster___]

Great an easily accessible unit that could counter aravi was nerfed so that sg could force people to pull for units like ml pavel or straze to deal with her instead. Unfortunately I doubt sg would nerf aravi considering her banner is currently ongoing and she'll be receiving an rta skin, though I'd like to be wrong about this.

[@JazzCabbagE7]

"Kill her, kill her with fire!" - Taeyou, probably

[@Shenzy17]

Lol they sold solutions to hwayoung, didn't nerf what hwayoung is supposed to keep in check, and somehow it's a win? this is a way too crazy nerf and SG is overshooting it as usual

[@coreyunder90]

A nerf was needed for sure BUT neither the timing nor the amount of nerfing her is right. If they nerfed her like some weeks after she was released - fine. Giving out a selector just to nerf the unit probably most people selected and invested time, gear and resources into? - Probably one of the worst decisions SG made to this day. But now every at least somewhat decent RTA player has adapted to have more than enough answers to Hwa. The only people I feel still having trouble playing against her are Challenger and below rank, players who get outgeared and/or don't know how to draft properly. Cleave totally shits on Hwa and so does OpSig, Choux, Kise, J.Kise, FLidica, Rem, STene, Yulha, DJB, Krau and even Taeyou the living meme. Is she overtuned? Yeah for sure - just take away her S1 CR Push and increase her S3 CD by 1 Turn, done, problem fixed. Of course we don't know how she turns out to be after the nerf, but just from reading the Balance Notes is feels like she will be mostly irrelevant in the future. SG should really talk to their top players on how to do nerfs and buffs bc they obviously don't play or understand most of their own game.

[@ryanwest6035]

All they had to do was remove her stupid good defenses and let Cidd S3 kill her and she's completely in check except for turn 2 babies who will still cry. Hwayoung was a 100/100 on offense and her stupid s3 cleanse means you could only stun/sleep to CC her, she had no right to have that crit reduction passive on top of the barrier in combination with the cleanse.

[@ocas8829]

Hwa was just poorly designed. I think, she was created like tank-buster. But in the most stupid way possible. Just slammed full def pen + increased damage scaled with difference of max health. I remember only 3 heroes(without hwa) with full def pen and they got some conditions to do damage. When hwas only condition is "get a turn lol". Why is this bad? If she can do 24k damage with 100% increased damage without any mitigation, she can do 12k damage without any damage increase. Don't forget about uberius which makes s1 do enormous damage. (Sorry for any horrific errors in this text, English isn't my first language and he isn't similar to my first language)

[@bradford2839]

Cant wait for a week after the nerf, when every person bitching about Hwayoung is then bitching about Aravi again... She has a sub 50% win rate in high level RTA, if you didnt build a counter, or just ban her that is on you for being scrub.

[@kokkoro-chan2319]

Me personally my main issue with hwayoung was the absurd survivability she has, I didn’t complain much about her one shotting my tanky units because I just pre banned her but the fact that she has a barrier and built in mitigation makes her ridiculously hard to kill I honestly wouldn’t mind if they got rid of that since people just use immunity anyways. A bit overkill on the nerfs but it’s a nerf that needed to happen

[@VanWinkle666]

YOU WANNA RECALL? YESSSSSS!!!!!!!

[@malachai9186]

To quote fighting games hwa was a scrub killer meaning she takes out low level players mostly bronze to master,anything above people built answers to her. She also kept allotta stuff in check and if the numbers aren't done right all that crap comes back and has new friends to be cancerous with if hwa can't kill. One of the big ones is evasion stocks rising up and the possible return of violet solos everywhere,apoc can run seed again,senya who was already a pain lost her biggest check and b4 anyone says there other units who deal with her reminder in the current meta choux and diene are everywhere and anti crit as much as its a meme helps senya so all those checks that most of them run cc are heavily rng dependent. Anyone who sees this as a good thing refuses to see the big picture and don't remember the sba and sage nerf and the tendencies of sg going overboard

[@kamisama20]

I just see a more diversity meta, so maybe nerf hwa not a bad thing

[@kirenaiasakura5943]

isnt her double bonus dmg when proportional hp difference will lose too then? will her increase dmg dealt compensate 20% attack lose and bonus dmg when proportional hp difference achieved?

[@kirenaiasakura5943]

i mean by compensate at least can she still do 1 shot 20k+ hp non PoV without aurius bruiser hero tho?

[@verum117]

A ravy needs a nerf

[@jonanderlaucirica]

Just like you said with A.Ravi, RELYING your whole draft around a single unit because it carries you only means the unit is way too strong and toxic for the game. People just turn a blind eye about it. Oh and... A.Ravi, you are next. Hwa nerf is just the beginning for future fixes for overpowered units.

[@r5yan102]

Man I don’t think they are gonna touch MLS unfortunately. Hopefully they do but I wouldn’t hold my breath over it.

[@CH-sl1in]

The nerf is too massive…doesn’t sound good for F2P and low cash player. Having competitive + non Ltd rgb heroes is fair enough against megawhales leaving 500$ per month. Be careful SG this change of mind could blow u!

[@ph-xx4eu]

You're not playing against mega whales. Those people have insane gear and you will literally never see them in any content. And if it's just people who open the wallet for the units and don't whale for gear.. well if you spend your mystics right you will be on the same level as them.

[@swag8989]

lmao,some of these comments really be crying about whose gonna counter lua,a character that is not even out yet.

[@jecisthetruth]

if they do not nerf a ravi this is a mistake evasion damage makes sense.

[@kuzonjaeger5282]

not everyone has uberius tooth mate

[@r5yan102]

Hwayoung probably did the least to A Ravi out of every unit because people run 26k hp on proof. She one shot everything else just fine though lmao.

[@KyonV13]

You're forgetting how Hwa forced aravis to switch over to proof from Crimson Seed just so they stay alive a little longer.

[@DrSquirrel]

This. Literally just by existing Hwayoung completely changed how people were forced to build Aravis. Before, Aravi was not only unkillable, but also either self cleansed every turn or did even more damage because of Draco. Very few people were running proof aravis pre-Hwayoung.

[@kamekaze878]

I loved my Hwayoung especially before I got A Ravi but I agree she was kinda busted. I think the nerfs are a bit excessive since they took her CR push and increased S3 CD though. Hopefully they watch feedback and aren't opposed to slightly buffing her back up a bit if she's too gutted.

[@KingCrusaderIV]

I mean the S1 and S3 needs a nerf for sure but I would rather deal with hwa than those stupid ruelle, ads, senya abusers that every game was like a frenzy 5 game. Also AoL nerf when? she's like the most toxic unit in the game for a long time

[@jekmr84]

I think she isn't gonna be usable and u use to use her for pve which I think she won't be able to be used there anymore. I think they need to nerf a bunch of other units now (aravi, belian, rimuru, violet etc.)

[@silverjenny3]

wait I was going to choose hywayong from the anniversary box, what should I choose now?

[@donew1thita11]

Choux. Senya, alencia , violet

[@EmperorAelius]

Senya she is toxic

[@silverjenny3]

isn't kayron better now? from the ones you guys said I only dont have choux

[@donew1thita11]

@@silverjenny3 idk . Ml elena may be problem if u don't got like ml kawerik

[@DrGGP]

so when Lua is going to be nerfed ? She is more op than Hwayoung ,maybe 6 months later after ppl put tons of resource building her? you are laughing now, but this is actually bad for the game,

[@DrGGP]

and how I suppose to use my +11 YULHA and +30 tooth after this nerf ? Maybe SM should recall them too ( and all the counter heros they release) Now I’m not sure if SM will do the same thing to LUA : releasing 1 or 2 heros to counter her and make them completely useless by nerfing LUA

[@excalibursonic32]

Why are people crying about a character that isn't even out yet

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

@@DrGGP in regards to Yulha, DC is said to be the king of GvG, Yulha is quite literally a DC that Hwayoung will focus 100%, even though we will not see more Hwayoungs in GvG she would still be a good DC like unit, she even has a barrier when low HP so she can survive and use her S3, DC wishes he had something like that. Uberius Tooth has been in the game for years before Hwayoung was released, they could have nerfed the artifact instead of some parts of Hwayoungs kit but decided not to cuz Uberius Tooth is not a Hwayoung only artifact, even though she benefits the most with it. Lua needs Soul Burn to fight RNG so the enemy will pre ban Belian, that's the first indicator that the enemy is a soul burn user but they cannot just pick Lua and 4 mages so you could ban one book holder, also A.Cidd removes another 20 souls on S3 and he will outspeed Lua, that's two book holders down. You could also use heroes that actually benefit from CD increase like Choux and Stene, just saying.

[@DrGGP]

@@Gacha-Ritual-Master 1. the most used fire hero in the GvG is Mercedes (maybe Kayron after his buff), both can't be baited and in both cases, Roana is the better solution, I just can't think of a case where Yulha is the best solution. 2. yes, the tooth has been in the game since Luna's release, but no one can actually benefit from it until Hwayoung came out, thus not many ppl will even bother to +30 it if not for her. 3. removing souls can counter her but only partially because rng still exists and she will be the nightmare for GvG and Arena defence, that's what I call 'op' 4. SM said they release Hwayoung to counter A.Ravi, now Hwayoung is getting nerf, I can only hope they nerf A.Ravi in the near future

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

@@DrGGP eh? But you mean GvG defense or offense? cuz Mercedes and Kayron really doesn't seem to me like the most used units in GvG offense, I mean they are good, just that doesn't feel like the best, you know? I know 20% attack down on her S2 is massive but hey, the way they changed her S3 feels like they want her to focus exclusively on killing tanks so we will have to wait after the nerfs to see if she performs in that role, and hey, PoV A.Ravi was weak against debuff comps so now that Hwayoung is getting nerf people might switch back to fire seed. I would say that Lua is good against half of the meta (which is really good) cuz some of the meta units doesn't really care that much if they don't have S3 immediately, since she is ranger she would mostly be on GL to avoid A.Cidd and the likes, still affected by Ran and Peira but that's pretty much everyone.

[@blankshell3401]

Good News to me

[@christophermauro-barias7451]

if you're going to nerf a unit you nerf it sooner rather than later. you didnt nerf AOL or Rimeru or Aravi . They did it so dumb lol Hwayoung fell off overtime due to picks and just proper play. This nerf is like soo late

[@uripoutiga8071]

Must be because I got her last week

[@ledengary5550]

Hwa(died)young

[@xFlow777]

That's a stupid change because hwayoung isn't the problem it's uberius tooth thats the problem without it hwayoung can't kill none tanks in 1 shot, all this change does is kills the only answer to those fkn 30k hp walking fortresses. Dislike because your take is absolutely awful and biased, you're a bruiser and she's the only threat to you. You ppl completely miss the reason why hwayoung is killing everything in sight, take off uberius tooth see how she does.

[@onlymeverlaet3644]

Okay. But what about ml 5? Hmmmmmm

[@joko676]

nerf ftp unit but no nerf for whale unit like Ren or C.Lilias

[@Lmaxter500]

A.Ravi keeps getting away with it all

[@pieceofwood7064]

this is just review bomb incoming by korean players

[@poiumty]

Koreans considered Hwayoung one of the 7 great disasters, so a massive riot will be hypocritical.

[@pekoms9054]

Lol they better shut up this time Weren’t they crying for nerfs few months ago ? Now that they finally get it they still cry ?

[@goldeno7]

Think they kinda nerfed her way too hard..

[@wifibattler7890]

absolutely. what about yulha, the unit created LITERALLY ONLY to counter hwayoung? what happens to her? what about all those uberius' tooth that people bottle'd up? who's going to be able to counter pov rimuru now? is violet going to make a comeback? there's way too much stuff that we have no answer to

[@DrSquirrel]

I actually tend to agree. My theory is they dont want to nerf again, so to be safe they overnerfed a bit to leave future buffs open. I think they REALLY DONT want to nerf her twice cause a selector is essentially mandatory with every nerf round.

[@Gameplayer38706]

@@wifibattler7890 To answer that question yulha being made to counter hwa will either get reworked or buffed And Yulha was mostly used in gw not rta. As for uberius i believe people who bottled it should get a recall only if you bottled it 1 - 2 months before the announcement of hwas change. Counter Pov rimuru we will adapt we have ravi being buffed now. There are many units that counter violet in the game we are fine on that

[@poiumty]

@@DrSquirrel The only way they can keep their promise that she'll still be a tankbuster is to increase her s3 multiplier from 0.55 to 1++. That means more than doubling it, which is a drastic change that you don't think of when you see "damage increased". So that's what I'm waiting for. I hope they do the right thing.

[@CurtThaFlirt]

I think this is a pretty good observation of her changes. I think a lot of people including myself though this was overkill(kinda still is). I would’ve been satisfied with them adjusting her survivability(immunity & barrier just for existing is ridiculous on a unit like her). I think that this does balance her out and forced her into her intended roll. I wouldn’t go so far as to consider recalling her just yet tho. We’ll see if they attempt to touch the other three horseman tho I doubt it since they’re much easier to cope with(not you Belian)

[@amigosmundousa2246]

Happy but what about ml Ravi? nerfing one unit but acting blind and dumb when dev can removed desease broken meta.

[@donew1thita11]

Now Aravi next

[@blackblurable]

It turns out if you bitch enough maybe SG does something about it. I can't believe they gutted her before other meta units. As if she didn't have answers too, welcome back Violet lol

[@Shadow-ok4jr]

0:48 thanks for that ofc she needed Nerf but idk still seems strong anyways yeah there are still more units which needs to be nerfed like aravi.

[@404ZeroX]

Mostly I agree that she should've been nerfed. I just wish I could get all that I invested in Yulha back too LOL. No one's going to pick Hwayoung on their arena and GW defenses anymore so she's just going to be benched indefinitely - until they buff her - her kits needs a lot more to actually be Green Krau and not just a now-mothballed Hwayoung decoy. I also liked using her in raid/hell raid but she'll probably still be fine there.

[@hondsdollekat]

I agree with the nerf but they need to nerf Aravi next