You Can't Play the Hand This Way!

[@bjbarlowe]

Caller: “Hi. Hero has 65 of clubs in middle position-“ Bart: “Whoa! Take me out to dinner first!”

[@budthebud9108]

Haha..reminded me of scene from Me Myself and Irene "look who joined the party"

[@stevecelino8354]

Nice video. The caller should keep in mind that the villain can be more capable of bluffing river than population, and still not bluff at a high enough frequency.

[@mrhumble2937]

Good point.

[@adamseidel9780]

Paused on the flop: what interesting analysis and conversation. I appreciate the uncertainty. Almost certainly it’s a mixed raise and call spot. But love all the thoughts. Edit at the end: love this call and caller. Made mistakes, had some good thinking too. Critiqued himself a lot, wanted Bart’s thoughts. Felt like he actually learned. I liked listening to his thinking both wrong and right. Great call.

[@montezuma6962]

@5:50 After the flop check raise "I feel like I'm going to get continues from a wide variety of hands" @7:51 "So now, once I get continues on the flop, I can probably shrink his range down a good bit" 😉

[@1vailchris]

I've gone through the same mental gymnastics playing against V's I know very well. It's a lot of leveling, with "he might do this, or he could do that", where this and that are total opposites.

[@qlow5956]

Nevermind the bad river bet sizing. H showed mega strength on flop and turn -- enough to fold out anything less than the nut flush draw and flopped sets -- and still got called twice from patient V in position. No way V is continuing the turn with AcKx. V got there by river and isn't worried about even the weakest boat. I believe the KK claim. Good fold on river.

[@MrJamberee]

H seriously pushed this hand too hard with low end draw to straight or flush. Too many cards that can come that make him lay down. And it’s heads up, so when his check raise didn’t work, he was in a very bad spot all around.

[@1vailchris]

I hate hero's line here, with this hand. V has the nut advantage on every street.

[@mrhumble2937]

You fold Ac K on turn? I'm not

[@mrhumble2937]

3 bet pot. Lots of people show crazy aggression. Maybe if single raised I'd agree

[@EllieBanks333]

Let's keep in mind we get no reveal on this. This after the fact story, especially between regular "leveling war" rivals, who are portrayed by caller as pretty Laggy, is completely unreliable. I also don't think it mattered what villain had, there's no way this guy just calls river. Did not really like any of hero's choices. Bart did a great job of pointing out how hero's "outs" are going to be suspect when they hit.

[@1vailchris]

The V in this hand has apparently joined the comments to say he did indeed have KK. I really hate hero's line here. V has a nut advantage on every street. Hero's hand isn't anywhere near strong enough to be played this way. I'd check-call flop, check-call turn, and look to check-call river on any brick, but check-fold on any board-pair or 4th spade.

[@EllieBanks333]

@@1vailchris He certainly *could* have had KK. It's perfectly reasonable. I only believe cards that I'm shown though.

[@1vailchris]

@@EllieBanks333 I don't always believe what opponents tell me when I don't see for myself, but if I know the opponent reasonably well, and if they maintain their story after the session, I tend to believe them. As a side-note, I wonder more about opponents' answers to those hypothetical "If I jam turn, are you calling" type questions. Whereas I don't think there's much EV in maintaining a lie about our holdings in a particular hand from a prior session, I think there probably is some EV in letting opponents think we'd snap off a bet or insta-fold, just to keep opponents from feeling overly confident about putting us in tough spots the next time we face them.

[@smokedsalmon8394]

Spot on here bart...100% agree with you on the reverse equity x/r on flop topic.. Long term that Will not be profitable and easily exploited

[@conephompany]

easily exploited? can you explain how so?

[@jamesstevenson3116]

I don't usually max buy, which I'm aware almost all pros would not recommend. It just makes your decisions so much easier not being super deep. Yeah I don't cash in as much when I flop a set etc, but it's just so easy to realize my equity where I play, I'm rarely confused by peoples play.

[@adamseidel9780]

I suppose the counter to this line of thinking is you should study your late street deep play. You’re doing smart short term thinking by identifying a leak (I’m assuming you have data behind this decision and not just feels) and self-exploiting to minimize it. However, the obvious response to that is if you improve your play in the situations you’re avoiding you will drastically improve your success. So it’s a good short term idea and one you should try to move away from in the medium term.

[@jamesstevenson3116]

@@adamseidel9780 I do keep a book of every session. I’m not a fantastic player by any means but I’m in the black

[@matthewronchetti2915]

Awesome hand analysis. You need to build an AI Chabot called Bart that does LTO (live theory optimal) hand reviews, lol.

[@Light-kc6ln]

That was an amazing hand. Learned a lot thank you

[@scott_M14]

I think with the large turn sizing you are almost setting yourself up to get bluffed on that board pairing river. If I was getting sticky on turn with AK and you block bet the river I’m really gonna consider turning my hand into a bluff especially if I hold the ace of clubs. Once again the power of position is reiterated on this hand.

[@Jealod24]

Another reason to wait til the turn to check raise is to stay balanced. You should check raise a certain percentage but not a lot because you don’t want villains to figure you only reraise made flushes when you check raise the flop. So if you just check they will punish you for showing weakness

[@jngdstdnt4357]

if villain had KK, wudnt he have reraised hero's raise on the flop? Im jus thinking, if it were me, i'd be thinking set vs set.

[@mrhumble2937]

Nah fold out weaker hands. Caller folds.

[@guybrushthreepwood8174]

really interesting hand 👍

[@daithi1966]

That was a really interesting hand, and I would not want to be playing at that table. I prefer to play against idiots.

[@MrJamberee]

Indeed. Why would anyone want to regularly be in these situations, as the caller says he is- just with this opponent alone. Then he got cute with him and it ended as expected. Bad game selection, bad opponent selection, nonsense play of the hand.

[@noex100]

​@@MrJambereeIn summary: some players would rather stroke their own ego by winning "leveling wars" rather than winning actual money in the long-term.

[@1vailchris]

Hero played this hand like an idiot. V just played his hand in a straight-forward way. Hero over-thought it, got too aggro with a sub-par hand, and paid the price.

[@user-kx6yp8cm7w]

I’d be happy to pay this table

[@vecter]

I'd love to play against Hero. His bet-sizing is way off and needlessly narrows his range down so much

[@officeofpeaceinformation5094]

Heros River bet size is just not an option You have to have a plan, and calling off and folding both are kind of mistakes So it’s a bet without a plan when you get raised

[@1vailchris]

I don't like hero's flop x/r, when V has the nut advantage on this board. I don't even like an x/r on the turn, when V has more nut-flushes in his range. With these stack sizes, and this hand, we can just check-call flop, check-call turn, and plan to check-fold river on any spade or board-pairing card. Our hand isn't anywhere near strong enough to take hero's line here.

[@honingbiet]

I think it is much closer on the river. I expect KK to 3bet flop majority of the time since you want to get money in now vs very strong made hands like sets and good draws. 98s is folding turn for this sizing i would think and also is just 1 combo. Leaves 1 combo of 99, K9s, and 3 combos of 88. I actually like the block bet to induce or get called by Ak with ace of club, but think it's a call on the river especially given history with villain. Now if villain jams a better flush (since we dont have boats with this turn size), that would be pretty sick.

[@jamesstevenson3116]

Kings makes perfect sense... which if he bluffed and wanted to lie, thats the hand to pick... but, tend to think theres a 90% chance he's telling the truth at least.

[@user-je9sc5tp1s]

Great stuff!

[@AT-qm8gv]

Alternate universe: River is the 8c. Hero shoves, villain calls. Villain reveals JTcc.

[@daithi1966]

That would be a sick cooler, but both players would be happy getting it all-in. However, the actual hand was really interesting to analyze.

[@MyComedyStore]

bad beat jackpot

[@arte9855]

​@@MyComedyStoredoesn't that bad beat only work when both parties are in play? Not with one folding out and the other not showing their cards.

[@MyComedyStore]

@@arte9855 yes. What’s your point? I was referring to the “alternate universe” scenario that @at-qm8gv offered.

[@blairjohnson6014]

@@arte9855If the river was the 8c both hands (in our alt universe where villian has j10cc) would get to showdown.

[@gordonbelle1375]

Writing this just after preflop action. I just can't see how raising this hand in middle position could possibly be a positive EV play. The button or even cutoff fine, but not here. Am I incorrect?

[@Chris-si4ox]

hey Bart, can you do an analysis of your AQ hand vs Sia the Bot? That's a pretty interesting one, thx

[@sethshapiro5973]

Bart you’re missing a 3rd reason (and imo the best reason in this case) to lead with a blocker bet. If your opponent has a better hand than you, but not so strong of a hand that they can raise a bet with. But by checking, the opponent would bet more. So you’re minimizing your loss in the hand. And I think a lot of villains’s range falls into this category. We’re talking all larger flushes, even the nut flush, and possibly even baby boats like 77 or 79. Those hands facing a $600 river bet are not going to want to raise there, especially with a possible straight flush as well. If you check your hand, these hands will feel comfortable to bet anywhere from half to 2/3 pot. So the blocker bet minimizes how much it’s going to cost you to see the river. You also will get crying calls from black aces, or AK with A clubs.

[@hogi99]

I don't think the guy had KK.🤥, That's just what you say when you get a massive bluff through. 😂

[@MrJamberee]

This is often just silly poker story stuff. I have seen soooooo many players lie about their hand afterward that I wouldn’t even bother to ask. Nothing good comes from asking what he had. It’s all nonsense

[@timmyp34]

To me, villain has strong incentive to lie, because they battle it out frequently and wants to give false info.

[@joshsheppard21]

I had Kk no reason to lie I am confident that I am balanced enough in this spot with value Jams full houses and quads and ace high flush just call with smaller flushes and jam aces and ace king with 1 club as a bluff so no reason for me to lie I feel that I am balanced the way I played the hand which is why I didn’t 3 bet the flop since I would not have done that with aces or ak

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

@@joshsheppard21assuming this really was you… KK certainly seems credible including flatting KK on the flop. Do you have any 3 bets on the flop at all?

[@1vailchris]

@@MrJamberee I've caught myself lying about hands to people who weren't even in the game at the time, just so I didn't have to admit how badly I played my hand.

[@gordonbelle1375]

I would have e titled this video Fancy Play Syndrome gone wrong.

[@rppoker8541]

That is probably a check call on the river but if you bet it is a must call here

[@joshsheppard21]

This is a 2k buy in triple blind game not a regular 1/3 game btw

[@itiswhatitis...9648]

the call on the turn by villain was better flush, straight, or set....if he's ripping ak with the ace of clubs or aces with the ace of clubs don't play with him anymore.

[@iitstu]

If we cap ourselves to flushes on the turn, can we block bet to induce on the river?

[@MCFoultier]

Its the wrong way to think. Its like, I met this nice girl, we went on date, she made me buy her a car, and now she left me, how can I sell the car and still make profit? The proper way to think about this is, how do I play flop and turn to arrive on the river and NOT be polarized to only flushes as valuehands? What can I do differently on prior streets to avoid this exact situation instead of how do I get myself out of the mess I already created?

[@chrisko6439]

@@MCFoultier There's in error in your response: there will be no car to sell once she left you because she left with the car.

[@MCFoultier]

@@chrisko6439 thats what you find out when you try to sell it. Aka when you play your hand as face up as possible by blockbetting river. In both scenarios, you won't find value...

[@michaelkirby5272]

You gotta wait til the second or third date to buy a girl a car.

[@1vailchris]

Block betting isn't to induce a raise. That's literally the exact opposite of why we block bet. We block bet in situations where our hand is >50% against our opponent's range, our opponent is likely to check back with hands we beat, but those hands might call a small value-bet, and we don't want to face a larger bet from our opponents when we just check. If we want to induce a bluff, we should just check, not bet. Bet size isn't a consideration when we check. We want to induce a bluff when a value-bet isn't likely to be called, but our opponent might bet if we check to them, especially on boards where all the most likely draws bricked out, making it more likely our opponent will bluff with their missed draws.

[@vecter]

Hero sizing got him in trouble almost every step of the way.

[@mattfox5933]

To me check raising vs 1 opponent is better than vs multiple opponents because in my mind the odds of someone having a higher flush draw go up with more people in the hand. Someone please argue this

[@jimmymason6893]

It's all easy when you are not at the table in this predicament ladies and gentlemen.

[@matthewkim5420]

exactly

[@animaroku]

no, it's easy - you need to be a below average player to play like that.

[@lincolnjeon2666]

good inducing, and acall the all in your playing the player. easy call all in

[@hansari8697]

turn is a block imo bc you are no longer polar your range has almost no bluffs on that turn.

[@Dan0rioN]

Would love this guy at my table XD

[@joshsheppard21]

I’m the villain in this hand AMA lol

[@EllieBanks333]

How much of the callers $ is in your bank account?

[@apocalypsepromotions7676]

Good morning Bart

[@andyhines5480]

I don't like 625 on the river. I like a check call much better. I'm guessing he has k9...

[@jonathangorman978]

Im at 13 min and wondering why AQc not considered. Is it donk to 3 bet aqc pre?

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

AQs seems standard to 3 bet. I’m guessing they just figure that AQcc raises turn?

[@JeremyWilson-iy3ve]

Bart I think a block bet is fine on the river, although I'm likely checking all my flushes personally. As I'm sure you know block betting benefits those middling hands that don't want to face a big river bet) So IMO flushes, especially 6 high, are middling hands by the river and benefit from the small sizing (still check a lot), while full houses can go big to likely get called by flushes

[@ticenits1926]

A block bet is supposed to be used in a circumstance where your opponent can only call or raise but never fold. In this circumstance villain can only jam or fold, there is no calling range on this texture the way the hand played out. So in effect hero basically just bluffed with a flush because he did not want his opponent see a showdown. He bet with the intended purpose of folding which is ridiculous

[@lewisriddle5859]

With history between them, need to mix it up & not play standard.

[@mrhumble2937]

He prob loss less doing the block bet at the end.

[@mrhumble2937]

I only call if I know this guy is capable. If its unknown or reg player im folding. Dont know the results.

[@mr.stacks9393]

If i think you got the folds I got the bluffs.

[@Daniel-fo9jf]

bloating this pot oop with 65s seems to be suicidal 500bbs deep.

[@frederickmccabe5675]

Maybe I'm a fish but I'm going into pot control mode with this weak of a draw on that configuration. Especially against a player I respect

[@tehblogger]

Yep. Would be different ofc at 100bb, this deep it's completely suicidal to bloat the pot/ a combo draw to a weak flush and bottom straight

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

Yeah I’d rather win a small (but still decent) pot vs AK or AA than either get stacked vs boats/nut flushes or fold and worry that I got bluffed.

[@frederickmccabe5675]

@@JohnSmith-nx7zj 600 bigs deep for sure

[@pot_kivach160]

3:26 but, this was *not* a single raised pot.

[@scottmcgillis8076]

This guy needs to work on his grammar he opens more wide who is this caller😂

[@skelthouser2730]

Says the guy sporting the ugliest run on sentence of the day.

[@lincolnjeon2666]

i ptu the guy on ak, kk would of raise on the turn, especially if you got history with this guy. but 3 bet pre, kkk soujdn reasonable and ak too.

[@lincolnjeon2666]

you check his gonna go all in, if you go all in his gonna call wlith ak with a club esiest call on river. wow

[@lincolnjeon2666]

small bets you are inducint. and all in.

[@lincolnjeon2666]

you gonna fold to a all in lol wow. if you loose you loose. call all in

[@lincolnjeon2666]

you can not check fold on this, wtf, youcan check all in.