"You Have No Right To Judge God!"

[@Control_alt_delete]

If you ask a Christian is God good, and they reply yes, then congratulate them they've just judged God. They only see an issue when someone judges God differently than they do.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Such a great and simple point.

[@eznosnopes5276]

My thoughts exactly. There is judgement where you are the guy looking down with a gavel weighing their actions but there is also judgement where you are figuring out what you think of something. According to my experiences/moral code God can be good or bad, fair or unfair. The point of having senses is to evaluate (judge) things.

[@merarifreethought]

'nough said. So true.

[@johnlennox-pe2nq]

The Word states God is good, they have not judged God. The Word is God. Christ is titled the Word. Christ never said do not judge, btw.

[@Control_alt_delete]

@johnlennox-pe2nq if the word is God and your claiming Jesus is the word then Jesus did say not to judge less you be judged yourself. Didn't have to say it in the person of Jesus. The Bible saying God is good is a claim. A person either can agree or disagree with that claim. The act of agreeing is a judgment call, thus you are indeed deeming God to be good through your own internal judgment. You may say that the reason you make that judgment is because of what the book says, then without a standard on which to judge the reliability other religions get to hold their holy text on an equal footing. I suggest you stop trying to dodge the real world implications of what you believe and start trying to find a way to determine if it's true or not. Your comment is meaningless to the reality of the discussion, plus on top of that your actually wrong on both fronts logically. You basically said on one hand that God, The Word, and Jesus are one in the same so when the word says God is good that's God saying God is good. Then on the other hand you were basically saying the person of Jesus never said not to judge and ignored that within the word it says not to judge, so on this hand you're separating the person of Jesud from the word. That's what they call having it both ways or having your cake and eating it too. Logically you disrespected the law of identity or non-contradiction.

[@familyportsmouth]

I really liked your recipe analogy! "OK, I am not a well-trained baker, but in this section of the recipe, it calls for one egg and in the next section it calls for two eggs, but in the beginning of the recipe, it said that no eggs were needed! The recipe is flawed, and the author is wrong. " "Oh, no! You are taking it out of context! No eggs in those times meant one to three eggs. You are taking it too literally."

[@MindShift-Brandon]

ha! I love this. It really is that silly and foolish how they change things to suit their needs. Great example!

[@disraelidemon]

I'm not judging god, I'm judging believers' stories about their god.

[@davidrexford586]

You may be … but Brandon thinks he is going to judge God.. will he stand before God and raise his fist at God???? I have known God for over 40 years by the FAITH that God gives me as a GIFT.. so I go forward and Brandon goes backwards.. I have been through one miraculous encounter after another which has Strengthened the Faith that God GAVE me to understand God with. God gives us Faith , as a Gift to understand him with and we don’t use our own perceived Faith to understand God with . It’s tragic how so many want to explain away God and it’s a foolish notion. Some go too far and never come back and the way back disappears as if walking in a sandstorm . I used to feel sorry for him but now I just feel pity for him and no more remorse. I truly don’t know what will happen to him because it’s his decision to do whatever until his last breath and he passes over. And then he will see what he will see.. some will seek the world and lose their souls while others will give their life and gain it at the end.

[@whelperw]

​@@davidrexford586 No one, except Christians (maybe) understand your christianiz

[@paulgemme6056]

@@davidrexford586 Peace be with you! Jesus is the King of Glory! Our Redeemer Lives!

[@dantallman5345]

Rich irony when people judge that they need to shield God from judgement.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

ha! great point.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

Lol

[@weirdwilliam8500]

What occurs to me when Christians use this argument is that if we lack the capacity to judge god as wrong or evil, then we must also lack the capacity or justification to judge god as good. They can’t have it both ways. By their reasoning, god could in fact be a liar and evil but in a way that is incomprehensible to us. They can’t deny such a claim because they’ve forfeited the tools to do so.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I love this point. It deserves an entire video!

[@weirdwilliam8500]

@@MindShift-BrandonOof, you’re fast! Caught me while I was editing.

[@weirdwilliam8500]

@@MindShift-Brandon But yeah, by all means make a video on this if you like. I just found your channels and I’m enjoying your thoughts.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Appreciate it! Its a great line of logic i had not thought on yet. Nothing makes me happier.

[@ijsbeermeneer9952]

Cosmic skeptic made an amazing video about this line of reasoning, id highly recommend!

[@janisnotjoplin1]

A flawless critique of a flawed religion. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you!

[@TIKRONASAMU]

This is the most loving, brillant brother I've ever seen on KZbin. I love you, brother, cause you clearly love me and the human race

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Really enjoying being able to put up some shorter videos. Hope you enjoy it! Thursday's episode will be my deconversion story, and Sunday will be another new full-length episode.

[@BookishChas]

Oh I’m looking forward to the deconversion story!

[@shallowfakes593]

"no where near perfection that i should emulate" I am going to steal that one!

[@HidingFromFate]

You pack so much good content within the confines of a short video that they don't feel all that short.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats so nice to hear, thank you! And thanks for being here.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha thank you! Appreciate you being here.

[@davidhanson888]

Even as a non-believer who is being evangelised the more that he has to judge God before giving his life to him. If you don't judge, it's like signing a contract without reading.

[@sarah-rubywilliams-ramouta8146]

Awesome analogy! Personally, I cannot give my heart away to someone I am also supposed to fear and who plans to torture me eternally if I don’t love him exactly the way he wants.

[@chrisbyrne17]

If you keep making content like this you will get the recognition you deserve this is some of the best athiest content on KZbin

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Bro, crazy kind! thanks for all the love.

[@Cellidor]

Simply put, if someone handed me a book where a character said "I am love" and in another chapter destroyed someone's life over a casual bet, yeah I'm going to give you funny looks if you try and tell me that said character isn't the antagonist. You don't have a character do villainy and expect to not have them labelled as the villain.

[@BookishChas]

This was really good Brandon! We have every right to question these things, and judge the supposed god by their own standards.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Hell yes! Lol. Thanks Chas

[@Ichabod_Jericho]

Funny how when it comes to finding a justification for hating homosexuals, donating money to a church, or an issue on divorce: Christian’s are more than eager to judge gods character and pontificate on what it would have to say on the subject. As a matter of fact, a lot of them try to speak on behalf of the god when those topics come up. But if we were judging god in a negative light; it’s suddenly just not possible for us to be in a place to make a judgement. 😂

[@01Aigul]

If Mike Winger is saying that actually genocide can be good and we just aren't able to see that, then I would say that goodness is apparently not something we should strive for.

[@bigtb1717]

Growing up I often heard variations of the idea that you aren't supposed to question or judge god. I did sometimes hear the whole "how dare you question god. But, mainly, when I questioned the wrong thing (even innocently from a position of total faith) I was harshly asked "Do you think you know better than God?!" These days I would have an answer for that. No. I don't think I know better than god and I don't "dare" to question god. At least, not so far. If god, himself, comes down and tells me something, I'll decide then if I'm going to dare to question it. But for now, I'm simply questioning the things people have told me about god. I'm questioning the reasoning and excuses and explanations other people have given. And now that I've opened myself up to thinking more critically about it, I only see a human who doesn't want their ideas questioned. This usually comes along with a "mysterious ways" admission that nobody understand it, but we should accept it without question anyway.

[@OublietteTight]

Well put. Since this god is not accessible, all we hear are humans reinterpreting, just people talking, just mortals. Even in written form, just the words of groups of scribes.

[@andeytubeyshamon]

Guys I think we can all see that Brandon has done and is doing some amazing videos - I’ve just signed up to his patreon to thank him and we would all buy him a coffee - so think about helping him out creating this superb Chanel. I don’t know him and from the U.K. just love the whole way he’s gone about this channel so think he deserves this plug 🙌🏻

[@Yourghostuncle]

It's interesting that Mike thinks he's in a position to judge everyone else's God. There's something very special about his pleading. But that aside, I have to commend the quality and thoroughness of your content. It's so informative and enjoyable.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Special pleading indeed! And thanks so much for the kind words!

[@Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic]

The 'Because I said so' fallacy. About the best argument you will ever hear from Mike.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Im brand new to him. Kind of excited to go through more of his videos. Maybe it will become a series

[@eznosnopes5276]

What he means is you cannot judge negatively. If you decide it's all true and amazing you are correct, if you disagree, you have no right to judge.

[@01Aigul]

Here is my food analogy. Suppose someone gives you a dish and tells you that it was prepared by the best chef in the world. It's actually pretty plain looking and derivative, but on closer inspection there are pieces of feces embedded in it. There's a card on the dish which says "This dish is the best in the world, and I know because I made it and I'm the best chef". Would that be enough evidence to say it must be true, counter to all the evidence?

[@istvansipos9940]

damn. you could have written "... pieces of ANYTHING (f.e. rotten fruit, dirt, old chewing gums, etc) embedded in it..." you were too cruel here :- )

[@JGarner511]

8:17 I love this point! I never heard it expressed this way before. “I shouldn’t have to deny my faculties. I shouldn’t have to reduce myself.”

[@MindShift-Brandon]

glad to help! thanks for watching

[@stein1919]

Thanks!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Appreciate the support!

[@prophecyempresslerena358]

It's strange when someone tells me I can't do something I'm displaying the capability and willingness to do. Not even God himself is immune to criticism.

[@rizdekd3912]

It's even odder when they do exactly the same thing. They judge God....but THEY judge God good. But on what basis? Do they have a basis for evaluating God's goodness? If so, then THAT is the basis we all should be using. If not they they it is pointless circular reasoning.

[@stevenhogenson4880]

Part of my deconverting was looking at this issue as outlined by the bible reference about the clay questioning the potter. To me that analogy falls flat due to one huge reason: clay has no feelings. You can't hurt clay. It's inanimate matter. Humans most assuredly are NOT. You can DESTROY a human with certain circumstances. Hurt them to a degree that recovery becomes nigh impossible. Believers would say "Well, god can heal them." What if it is god that caused the hurt in the first place? The episode I just watched about prayer. What if your prayer was about saving a loved one or child? And they died. God could have, SHOULD HAVE done something to save them. But didn't. They prayed; nothing. "God works in mysterious ways" (which has also been addressed in another episode) is such an empty and cruel platitude in that circumstance. "Trust god that things will turn out." And that person thinking "I did. I trusted god. Prayed to him. Over and over. And now this?!?" That clay has been shattered. And that wounded clay has EVERY right to ask "WHY?!?" To expect someone to suffer without reason is utterly without excuse.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes. Its a false analogy for sure. Even the child parent one is riddled with issues. Well-said, my friend!

[@matthewnitz8367]

With people dying Christians still always have the excuse of the eternal reward of heaven. To me the really damning thing is people praying for God to show them the truth, that they want to believe, and just not being able to believe when there is no response whatsoever. Is it not God's will for them to believe? Are we really going to blame humans for not believing when an apparently all powerful God refuses to do anything to make his presence clearly known while humans insist he wants a loving relationship with everyone? For me, adding divine hiddenness onto the problem of evil really puts the nail in the coffin of Christianity.

[@benjamintrevino325]

​@@matthewnitz8367it's worse than that. The Bible says God actively prevents some people from believing in him.

[@paulgemme6056]

Suffering either draws one to God/Jesus Christ or pushes them further away. The ones who know how good God/Jesus Christ is are the ones who know how sinful man is (from birth). We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. If a man says he has never done wrong/sinned he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[@stevenhogenson4880]

@paulgemme6056 who says that man is sinful? Your imaginary magical sky Santa? I bet you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and leprechauns and fairies too.

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

I think this might be the most important video you've yet done. Some real bravura work here. This was probably the hardest thing for me. Being consciously appalled by so much of what's in the Bible that's so obviously indefensible but which you're not supposed to question. And you're dead on about it being a might makes right attitude. When Job cries out for an answer as to why his life has fallen apart, God's "answer" is basically just, "Because I'm God and you're not." I think so many Christians say that people can't judge God because they know that if they do the verdict will likely not fall in His favor. But I eventually decided that it's asinine to think that anything is beyond judgment. If something is said to be, then it's probably because it won't pass.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh man. Job used to be my favorite book. How gross. I think ill do a video on just Job soon. Your last sentence is perfect!

[@SimonDaumMusic]

According to Christian standart, if we dont judge, we wont be judged either, neither for good or bad.. so we better to judge, and the best judgement is to be as truthful and authentic about something as possible.. Just in case there is a God and a final judgement, this may help :)

[@OXSkuldream]

Love your chill, articulate energy

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Appreciate that very much!

[@coruscanta]

I’ve never understood this objection. Like, as a kid I was able to recognize that believers were judging god just as much as non believers. They just had different judgements. If they mean something else by those words, then as soon as they explain that or clarify or rephrase, we can respond to that. But until then, they’re just wasting all of our time, theirs included.

[@jonathan4189]

That’s exactly what it is. They say you cannot judge god but what they mean is you cannot stray from the prescribed judgement Christians have agreed on.

[@coruscanta]

@@jonathan4189 yeah something like that. It seems that by “judge,” they mean something like “judge to be incorrect” or “condemn.” Whatever it is, I’ve definitely noticed a trend of them not knowing when a prescription of any kind is actually warranted.

[@michaelbradley7529]

These are all points that I questioned when I attained the age of reason as a child. Subscribed.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thnk you for being here! And man, jealous of the people like you who figure it out so much earlier in life.

[@michaelbradley7529]

@@MindShift-Brandon I was lucky not to be forced into the indoctrination. Technically I was baptized Catholic, but as soon as I started asking questions and questioning the answers, it was no longer pushed on me. That is when my bullshit detector first sprung into being, and I've been developing it ever since, and it's still a work in progress. Sometimes the old "fool me once" lesson has to be experienced more often than I would like.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I completely understand!

[@Cuffsmaster]

@@michaelbradley7529 "baptized Catholic" You lucky guy. I was Southern Baptist in a small rural church. They dammed up a branch and dunked me in the cold water which probably had lots of cow s**T in it as it ran thought fenced in farms. We were dunked under the water and were not considered fully saved until we were dunked. I call it being waterboarded for Jesus.

[@michaelbradley7529]

@@Cuffsmaster Compared to that I would have to agree I was lucky.

[@ByAnyDreamNecessary]

Random/Unrelated: I am in such awe of your ability to effectively communicate what you intend to convey in such a clear and articulated manner. Even your longer form episodes with topics that simply don’t allow for much summarization, still seem to be individually condensed to the most condensed verbiage possible. It’s truly a depiction of how my thoughts and ideas feel in my head…right before it exits and becomes either a novel-sized Ted Talk if written, or a jumbled up and babbled bunch of cringe if spoken. I’ve wondered for a while now if this is even an attainable skill set (of course we can always improve with practice), that can be achieved through reading and such…or is it simply something that is innate; that you’re either born with, or simply can’t acquire (such as singing). Anyway, thanks for what you do. Truly.

[@velvetvideo]

as far as judging....The Bible even says test all things and hold on to that which is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21

[@ja2727]

Beyond solid rebuttal. Why is it so hard for christians to see how lacking these defenses are. Also loved your point about the abuse of that power dynamic. You should do a whole video on just that concept.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much and good idea. I think i will.

[@jensraab2902]

You know, I could actually go along a little (within limits!) with the idea that some suffering is for our own good. (Like when you break up with a person in a relationship -or they break up with you- and it hurts at first, but later on you realize that the relationship wouldn't have worked out in the long run and in hindsight the short heartache was preferable to a prolonged bad relationship.) I like your example with the dentist and your kids. But the analogy, IMO, breaks down in at least two places: 1. Your kids know with certainty that you exist! They can ask you, you can try to explain, can console them, show them your love to make them understand that you care for them, etc. But since communication with God is one-way street, we can't ask him! Well, we can _ask_ him but we never get any _proper_ answer. 2. Call me hubristic but I think that humans are generally capable to understand a good deal of stuff when it's properly laid out. I have a hard time accepting that these supposed reasons why the horrible suffering that some people have to endure are necessary and that we would be incapable of grasping the basic concepts (or much more, quite frankly, than just the basics) of whatever this justification is, if God just bothered to explain it to us. And you could also ask why God made us so dumb if that is the hiccup. As usual, things only start to fall apart more and more, the close you look.

[@Aironcrow]

The section of "The Abuse of this Power Dynamic" reminded me me a quote by Voltaire: "God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh." Thanks Brandon

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Appreciate this!

[@not_a_theist]

I am so glad to have stumbled upon your videos and look forward to watching your channel deservingly grow. Great work!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that and am glad to have you here!

[@CaliforniaSurfer-gc2xv]

christendumb2 woke me up. he does great videos too.

[@SimonDaumMusic]

If you have no right to judge God, then how can you know it actually is God you are not judging?

[@stevenfrey8034]

Not to mention, Christians also judge God. If you only find good in God, you're judging him the same as non-Christians point out the bad in him.

[@Jaigarful]

Something I noticed and I can't be the first is that this is one of the pillars to deconversion. When you take back your morality, your ability to determine right from wrong from god/the church, you gain the ability to recognize a lot of god's actions as immoral. You cannot invoke the "God works in mysterious ways", you're forced trying to square the circle which often cannot be done.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

yes! wonderful point

[@stein1919]

oh my reason, thank you. I never quite realized that this apologetic objection was just another version of "God works in mysterious ways", which is, in itself, a cop out to shut down debate.

[@TheBarelyBearableAtheist]

Really enjoyed this one, thoughtful, well-reasoned, and professionally done. I would add a quick point: We're not judging God because God ain't here. He don't show up in real life and do anything we could judge him for. All we have to judge are the stories people tell us _about_ this supposedly perfect and allegedly unimpeachable deity, and like you say, we definitely have the right and the duty to do that. If God wants to show up in the real world and demonstrate for us all that he really is above reproach, then fine, we can have this discussion again. But in the meantime, judging the storyteller's story is fair game.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

couldn't agree more! Should have lead with that. Thanks for adding in!

[@MrDalisclock]

A lot of Christians insist Yahweh is perfect so that's that standard I hold him to. I suspect the reason many Christians don't is because the biblical depiction of Yahweh is very much imperfect thus the special pleading on his behalf

[@TIKRONASAMU]

This brother is awesome and brillant, one clearly sees the love he has for humanity......All praise to him!!!!!!!

[@everettyoung9325]

What an exciting new atheist voice! Loving it.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Hey thanks so much!

[@I-AmTheLiquor]

Very well done, keep up the great work!🔥👌🏼

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha. Thank you so much!

[@NOMAD-qp3dd]

Saw you on Paulogia, Sub'd, looking forward to the binge. 😂👏👏👏

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh nice. Thanks for coming over!

[@NOMAD-qp3dd]

@@MindShift-Brandon great content. I'm going to sub the book channel you talked about too. Have already watched a few of your vids today. I deconverted from "Church of Christ" was indoctrinated young as well. It's interesting how people who were raised secular don't understand how difficult it is to deconvert, I'm glad for them 🤣 but I usually explain it as such: I was taught of this dimension named Hell, and for me it was very visceral, a very real "place" and to deconvert, one of the first things I had to do was destroy a few dimensions: heaven, paradise, and hell. It's not easy to do all by your lonesome, dimension destroying. I'm proud of myself. 🤣 Life feels so much more full and fun and (ironically) more full of purpose, contrary to what christians say. Back then I felt like life was somewhat purposeless "So I'm just here to praise God until I die so I can praise him forever in heaven?" These concepts of heaven, hell and paradise and the ludicrousness of it all is what started me on my path to deconversion/construction. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts in your "What took me so long" video. You're one of the people who can frame and give vocabulary and dialogue to people like me who aren't so good with words and simply not as well read as you are. 👏👏👏

[@Mr.Gnomebody]

Playing on Winger's cooking analogy, part of the reason cooking shows (and similar) often have judges that aren't professional chefs themselves is because at the end of the day, a fair judgment of food is to set aside all pretense and just see whether or not a lay person can simply enjoy the meal. All the fanciful techniques in the world don't mean anything if the meal isn't enjoyable in the end. The same principle has been applied to critiquing movies and videogames. I don't need to be a filmmaker or game developer to know whether I enjoyed a movie I watched or game I played. I have every right as a thinking feeling person living in and experiencing the world to look around at the various miseries of life and the limitations of being human and conclude that all of this could have been so much better.

[@Cyraneth]

The argument that “you can’t judge because you don’t understand it well enough”can be used about anything. Thus no Christian can deem any other religion false, because they obviously don’t understand it well enough or they would believe.

[@OublietteTight]

Wow, applause. Definitely worth retaining for future debates. Of course, will expect to hear.. *but he is the real one*. 😮

[@Cyraneth]

@@OublietteTight Countered by "and that's what they'd say too". Nothing but special pleading. So far there's been no evidence for it, or apologists wouldn't have to rely on "Special Pleading and Other Fallacies". Real popular book, that one.

[@OublietteTight]

@Cyraneth indeed, all so convoluted. The whole book, the whole world. I know that the bible is a compilation of texts written by men who had no way to ever meet or know each others thoughts, pulled together in the early 300s, edited, extracted, added and edited again. Oh to be a fly on the wall during the 1st council of Nicea. Though, I might have lost my mind with frustration.

[@MichealHoward-cb8on]

Given that we were endowed with the ability to reason there isn't anything in this world, including god, that we shouldn't dissect and question.

[@therselman]

Great video! What you did is called an "Internal Critique" where you assume the truth of a premise, belief or worldview in order to demonstrate the internal contradictions, inconsistencies or hypocrasies.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

thank you for the verbiage! Thats perfect. Appreciate you being here!

[@zodfanza]

Such great analogies! Also how can we cry "worthy worthy worthy" without judging God? We're supposed to judge that God is worthy to judge... so we do judge according to the Bible.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes. Judging him good should be equally impossible.

[@Brent-gr3ot]

I agree with you completely on this, thanks much for this video. My growing sense of judgement about the God and Christ of the Bible is that they are both seriously flawed, morally, behaviorally, socially, judicially, and that they reject any idea or awareness or regret that they are flawed. These flaws render them significantly disagreeable and unlikeable and a terrible burden on the creatures that they claim to have created.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Well said and thanks for watching.

[@peterjosefek251]

Originally I wasn't a fan of the idea of splitting off another channel for this content, but since it is bearing such choice fruit I have no choice but to judge the tree good. Keep the awesome content coming. Ad multos annos.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha! I love this comment. Appreciate it, Peter!

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Everyone has to use judgement to decide which version of god they’re not allowed to judge

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol right?!

[@OublietteTight]

Nicely put

[@paulgemme6056]

No one gets to decide whether they are a sinner or not. God/Jesus Christ decides that. All have sinned. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; The ones who know how good God/Jesus Christ is are the ones who know how sinful man is (from birth). We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. If a man says he has never done wrong/sinned he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[@soyevquirsefron990]

It’s interesting that you said Jesus decides who is a sinner and we’re all sinners from birth. I agree with that interpretation of Christianity but most Christians don’t. Jesus decided to create us as sinners, he could have decided not to, but he decided he wanted us to be sinners, and we didn’t have anything to do with that decision because we didn’t exist yet. Also I didn’t say we can decide what sins are, I said even if the Christian version of the Abrahamic god is real, we humans have to decide which version of the Christian god is correct. For example, can we be saved by faith alone or do we also need to do good works or are we pre-condemned and there’s nothing we can do and we’ll never be saved?

[@paulgemme6056]

@@soyevquirsefron990 We are sinners because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which they were warned ahead of time not to eat. Jesus did not decide to make them/us sinners. Man (Adam and Eve) made free will decision to believe a lie told to them by the liar and the father of lies (Satan =the devil). God/Jesus Christ made man perfect in every way. Everything God/Jesus Christ made was perfect. Evil, sin, pride, selfishness, envy, lust, jealousy, greed all comes from the evil one. There would be no sin. sickness, sorrow, pain, sadness, corruption, etc... Evil would be where evil belongs; in hell along with the evil one and all those who mock God/Jesus Christ and reject his love and his free gift of forgiveness.

[@Daniel-cm2nb]

I believe that I'm a Better person sense since I became atheist

[@Larry30102]

Perfect articulation!! Love the vid. Many thanks

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much, Larry!

[@Trigger-xw9gq]

Yes, Winger (like all excusegists) does an end-run (before the game has even started) and concludes that his god exists. How convenient. I would like him to prove that his god exists first, and go from there. BTW, I think that “evaluate” is a better word here rather than judge. We are free to evaluate everything and anything.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

That is a better word. Love that.

[@Trigger-xw9gq]

@@MindShift-Brandon Excusegist? I got it from Mr. Deity: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpSkiZ6cfZedb9k

[@pmtoner9852]

Given that a divinity degree is wothless..

[@kathiburdette4279]

I'm here for every video! Thank you!!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks Kathi! Hope you are finding them worthwhile.

[@drzaius844]

When slaughtering the Canaanites is equal to appreciating bouillabaisse

[@26beegee]

I think we have a responsibility to judge God and the precepts laid out in the Bible by which we are supposed to live. Just like we judge politicians, judges, teachers and those in positions of leadership. We have to reject those we deem unfit!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

wel said!

[@bitofwizdomb7266]

People say “god” is beyond reproach …out of pure fear . They fear so much that they won’t even allow themselves to even consider questioning the almighty’s behavior or just his “existence” in and of itself 🤦🏼‍♂️. It’s crazy how fear can paralyze people even when they intuitively sense , in the deepest recess of their indoctrinated mind, that something seems a bit nonsensical

[@istvansipos9940]

even with the power of indoctrination, that's some weird behaviour. If I had questions about an entity I call all-knowing, I'd also believe that the entity knows my thoughts. It would not matter whether I say, discuss, write, share those thoughts. Just to have them would be enough for some g0d wrath. And by the time I realize I have doubts, (duh!) I already have doubts. No way to prevent them.

[@thschear]

"Who is god to not be judged."

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Exactly, this is the question.

[@loriw2661]

I’m so glad I found your channel. You’re concise and so cohesive with your points. If you could stomach it, I’d love to see you debate Wm Lane Craig under the rules that he’d have to address each of your points. He’s very practiced in fallacies and things like the Cosmological (blah blah blah) and things like that but I don’t think he’d do so well with you. That was a compliment.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Way too kind! Thank you though. Also i dont think he will waste time on a 200 sub channel BUT thats the goal. I would love to do professional debate. Have you seen his debate with cosmic skeptic. That one is really good.

[@Sarappreciates]

Anything that can be interpreted in so many different (and even opposite) ways is NOT anywhere near "perfect," nor does this trait strike me as particularly "divine."

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Perfectly said!

[@ThatReadingGuy28]

I find it telling when the same Christian who tells you that you cant judge the God of the Bible is the same person who looks at the Quran and finds Allah morally repugnant.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh preach! This is so accurate

[@BookishTexan]

My question is who is out there not judging God. Surely even believers can’t help but have their critical faculties triggered by some of the stuff in the Bible. Not questioning, not judging God is a learned behavior and we shoukd question why Christianity teaches it. When I was a believer I had these questions and when the answers essentially boiled down to some version of “God works in mysterious ways” or don’t question God I saw that Christianity was as flawed and illogical as any religion.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh man. I got a comment on my faith video just now that explains the other side. Your questioning lead you to your disbelief but so many people are afraid to question or think critically and just shut that side down, assume they are not smart enough or that the bible and god are too complicated to understand etc. its so sad to be literally taught not to think or question, both of those sentiments are in the bible.

[@BookishTexan]

@@EdFranklin-qv1bf Perhaps you are right about the semantics, but I have yet to find a church that could adequately explain to me how a God that could kill the first born son of every Egyptian family, kill every person on earth except Noah and his family, and incite genocide against the Canaanites is loving and just God whose moral dictates I should take seriously.

[@Control_alt_delete]

The judges on the cooking show are the perfect person to make a proper judgment about what they think about a dish. Is the chef trying to please the other chefs or the paying customer?

[@OublietteTight]

Chuckling. Forgive a moment of levity, but I hate cooking shows. They entice but I never get to actually have the food. I am never going to be able to cook the dishes and the shows are definitely not going to do home delivery. So mean. Why does that sound familiar? I am not good enough but cannot actually access the perfection, just a glimpse of an idea?

[@jackjohnson2171]

Job 2:3 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.” Seems objectively wrong to "destroy him without reason." God's words

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Job is an inexcusable book

[@matthewnitz8367]

​@@MindShift-Brandon Inexcusable when apologists try to make it out to be some demonstration of God's character and how might makes moral right anyway. Read as it was probably originally written with people struggling with the problem of evil and why if there is a good God apparently good people suffer, it's definitely a very interesting and invaluable work of literature. I do find it fascinating how the book of Job is really built on the idea that there ARE good people and they SHOULDN'T suffer needlessly, which runs contrary to the entire basis of Christianity. But apologists are very good at ignoring subtext in the Bible when it doesn't fit their preferred narrative.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes. So many counter things going on in Job. I lobe and hate this book

[@jasbo9734]

If you don't believe in the existence of the Christian god, or any other god, you are just judging a fictional character. Judging the god of the Bible is no different from judging Voldemort of the Harry Potter books.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I don't think Mike believes in the Biblical version of god who is a mafia boss and psychopathic mass murderer. Instead he invents his own god who is a caring, loving and just parent that provides guidance and protection for his beloved children. This is a problem.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Indeed it is.

[@jerryhayes9497]

Comment for the KZbin algorithm 🎉🎉

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha, thanks Jerry!

[@Nickelini]

So before your 12 min long video, KZbin pushed me 13 minutes in ads, including a 12 min sermon from Gospel of Life. That's all disgusting and rude on KZbin's part, but I let them run and left the room. Hope that helps with your monetization.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha!! I love this. Thanks for that and what a whacky thing!

[@robertjimenez5984]

About this topic of; can I judge a god? The bible says to test ALL Spirits because not all are from god. God is classify as a spirit, so god is not excluded from this command. After you test the spirit, what fallows? You need to judge in order to reach a conclusion. What’s weird is that when you put this “god” to the test, it fails. So this god fails his own test. So then the final conclusion is that this god is not god. If there is a god.

[@marshallmsonza347]

Apparently his ways are so much higher than ours we can't judge him for he knows best

[@istvansipos9940]

the g0d's ways are not higher than mine. But the g0d's inventors were definitely high.

[@Uryvichk]

For any action God takes, as with any action any conscious entity takes, there must be a reason or justification for it, or else it must be arbitrary or random. Obviously the Christian is not going to claim God does what God does arbitrarily or randomly, as that would make God's actions, at best, amoral. So they must have justifications, as "you don't deserve an explanation" is just might-makes-right and invalid. So then God's decisions with respect to what he does and does not choose to create are open to question and seeking after their justifications is perfectly reasonable. I don't think any justification for God's choice to create at all, nor for God's choice to create what he did create instead of anything else, can possibly be satisfactory; I'm honestly not sure a valid justification can even exist. *TANGENTIAL BONUS ARGUMENT BELOW* For example: To avoid God's reasons being prior to God's action, Scholastics will often claim that God's creative will is just part of the divine nature, so there is no "reason" for God's acts and questioning them makes no sense. OK... 1) So God's nature is necessary, then, right? God couldn't have failed to exist, and THIS PARTICULAR GOD couldn't have failed to exist, right? I suppose that's logically possible, but then God had no choice but to be exactly what he was, create anything other than he did, and thus has neither free will nor moral accountability... nor does anything else that he created, because nobody had any choice in whether we'd be here or any of the things we do. It's all a cosmic farce and even the director of the play can't change it. Well that doesn't sound right. Let's try another angle... 2) So "a creator God" with a perfect divine nature is necessary, but then it could've been a different God with different values who undertook different actions? That's logically possible, but it leads to even more problems. So how can I be sure that the God that actually exists is the best possible God? What does it even mean that there could be different but equally perfectly omnipotent/omniscient/omnibenevolent Gods? Are some of God's actions just a matter of preference? But doesn't that make them arbitrary? Indeed, aren't certain design decisions God made inescapably arbitrary? God could've made red and blue look like their opposites to our subjective human experience, while changing nothing else about the physics of the universe. This is clearly an arbitrary decision unless one wants to argue that it's immoral to see red as blue and blue as red, which is ridiculous and impossible to defend (should we stone the colorblind?). So God and Rod -- who is identical to God but happened to prefer humans experiencing blue as red and vice-versa -- are both omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, perfect creators... but are sufficiently different to be different Gods, because they had different preferences for an arbitrary aesthetic decision and accordingly acted differently in creating humans... and yet are equally acceptable as God candidates, because there is no morally significant distinction between them which would render one less tri-omni than the other. So why does God exist instead of Rod, or any other logically possible God? ...Yeah, this isn't helping.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you for sharing all this! Ive been thinking on that first point, the big cosmic play and how being director doesnt change anything, quite a bit lately. Thabks for laying this out!

[@Uryvichk]

@@MindShift-Brandon It is, I think, the greatest imaginable horror of a theistic view: That Christianity -- or Islam, or Hinduism, or any religion that has strictures and hierarchies and punishments and rewards -- is mostly true, that the real world does reflect those things, but everything is necessary and the God who brought them about had no choice in the matter. Imagine that eternal conscious Hell is real because it cannot be otherwise, that God brought it about and despises it, yet can do absolutely nothing to stop or even mitigate it (beyond whatever God necessarily has been permitted to do). Some are saved and granted eternal bliss, but there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to it, no purpose for them gaining it while others lose it, no comfort to be offered to anyone who asks why it must be this way and not another. And all the while God must trumpet the technical truth that he could have done no better, that there could be no superior world, while burying the caveat that there could be no other world at all. What agony, to have infinite power only on paper! To be able to do anything one wills, but to be unable to will anything that one might wish. This wretched puppet God might be the only one I could truly sympathize with. If you were to tell me such a universe exists solely to be that God's own Hell, I might believe you, but that would give it a purpose and in some sense alleviate its brutal pointlessness. If everything must be necessary, at least let it be an accident. (I should note also that, under a theory where God must create everything that is possible and thus creates an infinite multiverse, this is basically the actual world, though God alone knows it.)

[@christyadams9235]

My sister was murdered by her husband when she tried to leave. He was abusive in every way and she had 3 kids she was trying to protect. He shot and killed her. My Mom turned to her pastor brother for guidance. Mom was very Christian and encouraged my sister to stay and endure as he was head of the family as the Bible says. Mom asked her brother why God would do that. He brother encouraged her to ask God in prayer why he took her daughter away. She concluded her daughter was killed to help take care of babies in heaven. I started to really hate Christianity after that.

[@campfireaddict6417]

I hope he rots in prison.

[@lutek1]

(07.20) "If you don't believe in God you don't get to have a concept of right and wrong because there is no objective morality in your life".... This argument is so bad. I may not have a concept of right and wrong if there is no God, but the apologist is claiming that there is a God that gave me this very concept. Therefore I should have it, regardless of me believing in Him. (Of course there are many weird assumptions about morality in that bad argument as well, but I just wanted to point out this particular point.)

[@MindShift-Brandon]

yes, great point, and yes so sick of that argument!

[@yzettasmith4194]

Even with the kids/dentist example, your kids have the right to question you on it (and I believe you agree). It may be hard for them to understand when they are real young, but they appreciate you at least trying to explain why it's necessary. It shows you care about what they are going through. God just saying, "Were you there when I created the world?" is a dick move. A man-made dick move.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Well put!

[@matthewnitz8367]

David Bazan has a great line at the end of his song "In Stitches" that makes that point. When Job asked you the question You responded "Who are you To challenge your creator?" Well, if that one part is true It makes you sound defensive Like you had not thought it through Enough to have an answer Or you might have bit off More than you could chew Really that whole album is an excellent overview of the deconstruction process and the realizations you have about the very apparently human failings ascribed the supposedly infallible God presented in the Bible.

[@Phoennix3]

Brilliantly stated.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you kindly

[@maevenjae]

i'd have to disagree with you and the apologist just a bit on the necessity of non-expert guest judges on reality tv shows. it wouldn't surprise me if they are asked to be on the show to provide an outsider perspective, as the vast majority of a professional chef/tattoo artist's clientele are going to be laypersons. idk, i feel like when subjective/personal taste is involved, the assessment of a plate of food or a tattoo from an amateur judge seems appropriate. i don't think it takes anything away from or supersedes the expert judges' opinions...ANyWAyS, not a big deal or a theological disagreement, but i thought i'd point that out 🙂lol...love your channel and how you expose the very salient inconsistencies of christianity, god, and the bible A+ work, please continue doing what you're doing!!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha. Makes sense. And thanks so much!

[@Christiaanwebb]

Love the 'God On Trial' Poster. 😂

[@Daniel-cm2nb]

New Viewer Proud atheist Much respect sure

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much! Welcome

[@Chuck-se5hh]

An excellent necessary choice of subject for those who are sensing or experiencing that the Bible is causing harm or difficulties in one's life or in the lives of others. If the Bible did not cause apparent problems or negative concerns or complaints there would be no need to judge it. Your videos have clearly and honestly and accurately shown that there are a number of problems with God's behaviors and choices and edicts that are unhealthy and damaging; only a fool and a passive coward would allow such problems to go unchecked and answered and unexamined. Does God insist that we be such fools and passive cowards and sheeples? - evidently, yes.

[@CommonSense_Skeptic]

In my view objective morality comes from culture and one's own life experience. We know as we grow up what feels good and bad and what we liked and don't like, when things are done to us..when someone hits you and you know you didn't do anything wrong, or lies to you or cheats you etc etc we recognize that we don't like those things and therefore we don't want those things to happen to (atleast) people close to us, regardless of one's religious upbringing or lack thereof. the ability to feel pain and our emotions in general allows us to form bonds, as well as our culture is "souly" where our morality comes from. religion need not apply

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Really like most of this! Sry similar view to Sam Harris’s moral landscape. Thanks for being here!

[@PDG1956]

If a fantastic piece of cordon-bleu cooking tastes like cr*p, it doesn't matter who made it or how pretty it is - it tastes like cr*p!

[@James-qo7uz]

I believe you have opened up or pointed out Christianity’s pandora’s box of the authority fallacy. Christians quote Job like the words in Job is infallible. Who are we to question god? It’s an authority fallacy. We are supposed to question everything else but the one thing that person believes in basically.

[@lo-fi9957]

Really enjoyed this video!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Hey thank you! And welcome to this small family.

[@lawtonbrewer4107]

I cringe when Progessive Christians tell me that Hell doesn't mean a place of torment. It's a garbage dump (Gehenna). If so, it's the only garbage dump I know that features worms that won't die, fire that can't be quenched, and people who beg for just a drop of water to alleviate their constant thirst. Virtually every statement about hell in the NT implies that hell is forever. I call this kind of thing Jesus-splaining.

[@sledzeppelin]

Wonderfully stated.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much!

[@dabbler1166]

MIXED-feelings here. In the Iron Chef example, yes, i can see that some famous actor who isnt another chef or foodie may be "not qualified" on that issue. I understand the point. However-- No sooner do i acknowledge that and then another point comes rushing into my mind: You dont, and iii dont, and NONE of us NEED to have "a Ph,D. in ANYTHING-- in-order-to have any "right" to speak on it. For example: I can say, on the face of it, that even though I'm not a Physicist, that Quantum Theory seems like total BS and a vague pile of "uncertainty" that people hide behind to "prove" all sorts of things. People may say "you're not qualified". I say: You dont need a Ph,D. to be allowed to have an opinion. Another example: suppose I'M the famous actor judging food. Even though I'm not a chef, I can still say: the presentation looks awful Its tooooo Spicy...salty...runny...bland. I dont like the texture. I dont like the taste. This ingredient doesnt taste good when this other thing is paired with it. I don't need to have been an Executive Chef to say any of that and have it be valid. In Christianity, you may as well say, you "aren't qualified" to judge it unless you have a degree in Apologetics-- but skeptics wont say that. And people still do. I hope this is clear. You dont have to be another expert before you can speak. You dont have to be a Jehovah's Witness before you can criticize them. You just need to have some knowledge, not be all-knowing.

[@chriswest8389]

Apologists implicitly judge god themself. Theyle try to sell you on its moral resonablness, then when you point out the absurdity of the notion( non open theist that is) they jump tracks and claim its a mystery. Or they say its counter intuitive which they believe is an argument that works in their favor as wel..Non falsifable, which a lot of christian claims R.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

See it all the time. So very frustrating!

[@chriswest8389]

Well that you for your reply.christian apologetics has restored my faith in scepticism.language appears, to me, to be an open system'. Too much wiggle room . If one is clever enough on can pull silk from a soes war.

[@chriswest8389]

Soes Ear. Sorry.

[@timfallon8226]

The dad is real, the child is real, teeth are real, teeth are real. God is a story book character.

[@rgs200]

Good job on the video. I think the matter is easy. Either we can judge God or we cannot. If we are not qualified to judge his behaviour as bad, then we are not qualified to judge his behaviour to be good. If we cant judge, either because we cant see the big picture, or because our moral sense is flawed, then we simply do not know whether he is good or bad. (All we know is that he is powerful and is very judgemental himself, so it is a good thing that he is fictional.)

[@exoplanet11]

By the way, the whole point of the Council of Nicaea was to judge God. That is, for human people with their fallible human minds, to pass judgement on how a reasonable, just and merciful god WOULD HAVE created/became Jesus and would have imbued him with or without various divine and human attributes. Once humans constructed a God/Jesus set-up that made sense to their fallen little human minds, they then, much later, could pick and choose the texts that aligned with their creation, to canonize.

[@quakers200]

Can you have it both ways? Can we not be able to judge God because of all our lack of understanding, then turn around and tell us to three decimal points what God wants our personal relationships to be Ike? And how does God communicate with the bible writers? Through dreams, visions, signs, numbers. How reliable is that? Ever try to remember a dream, a few hours after waking and it's gone. Wouldn't you think something more reliable like stone tablets, something that there would be no doubt, but no we have to have faith n Paul, this random guy with a guilt complex that has visions none of which can be checked for authenticity. Right!!!😊

[@sharonnota]

It's easy to forget that we're not really judging God, but whether the biblical betrayal of him is real or fictional.

[@brianknox3778]

Loving your channel and approach. You nail it all shut, closed case. For sake of preserving the concept of a Loving God, who lives inside us -- I prefer the interpretation of the Bible that it's a mix of Truth and Heresy. I call "Hell" Satan's Heresy, inserted by Men/Satan, and allowed by God as a Morality Trap. Those who cling to Satan's Heresy, now believing God to be one who condemns to eternal torture the vast majority of all human souls, but is saving only the Few along the narrow path - yet still call this "The Good News" have fallen into Satan's Morality Trap... per the very promise of Jesus, "you will be condemned as you condemn others" -- will be the ONLY ones thrown into this Hell that they were wishing upon other people, even if just indirectly. The Hell Believers have created Hell for themselves, where they will be damned to eternity -- the same fate that they've wished onto the vast majority of others, and called it "The Good News". I stick with the verses: "God is Love; Love Keeps no record of wrongs; so neither does God" - and God tells us to love our enemies and forgive without limit, and to "aim to be perfect like God" -- so since God isn't a narcissist nor hypocritical -- these must be the true verses... the rest is HERESY -- Satan trying to tell people, "God is wrathful, but worship him and he'll save you -- and call this the Good News". I warn my Fundamentalist family, by this doctrine, that they are in danger of Hell.. and to repent and believe the actual "Good News" that "God is LOVE -- and condemns no one, but does allow Hell Believers to Condemn themselves to the Hell they co-created for Others." God is Love. Jesus died for ALL Sins, even the sin of disbelief. God is in us all. We are One. This is the truth/faith that I hold to.

[@brianknox3778]

I also consider the early Christians who (correctly) identified Yahweh is "evil" as my brothers in Christ. At least their doctrine has a better foundation. These were (some of) the Gnostics, and the Marcionites... Yahweh is evil -- Jesus came to save us from Yahweh, and Jesus does not condemn. But the Romans chose "Orthodox" sect, and burned most texts from the Gnostics/Marcionites -- naming them Heretics who could be persecuted openly, like criminals for teaching Heresy. I'm not worried about "correctness" here -- since Hell is NOT on the line. We are creative, co-creators, of a living/loving God -- his spirit lives in us. Prayer works. And there is far more beyond what we can current see/sense with our eyes or science -- and this is all wonderful and OK. In the end, we rejoin the one spirit -- and heck maybe reincarnation is real. No matter -- no condemnation for anyone (except maybe the Hell believers) - and forgiveness/peace for all. THIS is the Good News -- and if you think it's false, then I hope you find a belief that brings you inspiration/hope/strength for the tougher times in life, and find joy in your pursuits, and find inspiration to seek/find/enjoy community and relationships, and incorporate a healthy amount of spirituality/faith-in-magic into your lives -- because I think for most, "belief in good prayer magic" or "God working for our Good" -- actually *creates* this reality. We are Co-Creators, and much of what we create, has to do with our faith. Those who create Condemnation for others -- are sad, and may stand condemned. Those who believe in Universalism and a true God of Love -- create this reality. So I firmly and unashamedly believe in this one True God of LOVE. It's the best belief I've found, and also provides an avenue for the sad Hell Believers to follow. All they have to do is accept that the Bible contains *both* truth and Heresy, and that the Loving Holy Spirit of Truth that lives inside of them, will help them to discern between the two -- then out pops the God of LOVE, and no condemnation... as is the truth of the otherworld - beyond our physical human lives.

[@brianknox3778]

BTW - I developed this firm faith at Unity Worldwide, started by the Philmores in the 1870's! -- well ahead of their times. This faith is ready for mainstream. I think we should aim to replace fundamentalism with Unity Worldwide Interfaith framework. They're maintaining a high degree of integrity, because they aren't bound to proclaiming the "whole Bible as True" - but the Holy Spirit of Acceptance and Goodness -- fills us, and leads us. We are One. Wherever we are, God is. Been loving this Faith. Prior to going to Unity Worldwide, I was a semi-soured Atheist after falling away from Christian Fundamentalism -- seeing "the truth in what they taught" while also seeing the gross/crippling/inexcusable hypocrisy of a God who tortures people for unbelief. I've been searching for a way to live out "Faith/Love/Prayer/Singing" inside a community of believers in a manner that doesn't sacrifice integrity, or condemn those who don't accept what we believe. We each were given our own versions of Truth... and at Unity we celebrate these differences, as "God loves Variety" and created us this way because it's beautiful. Our only limits are "do not condemn others" or tear them down, etc. Build up others in love. Service. Kindness. "Look for the Good, and Grow it." That's our general mantra - and this is done not just physically, but in prayer as well... we believe Prayer works, and Faith in Miracles brings on miracles, which are only recognized by those with Faith... foolish is the skeptic saying "but then it's not really real" as he criticizes the ones who are living in more happiness, experiencing daily small miracles and meaning.

[@soyevquirsefron990]

I think Mike winger used a bad example talking about chefs, since people enjoy different flavors and taste is an inexplicable sense we’re born with that we can’t change. Yes it’s valid to say, “this master chef used expensive ingredients and years of experience to create this dish so this is more complex and you don’t understand all the choices the chef made” but any bozo on the street can still say with validity, “it doesn’t taste better to me”

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

I would always say what Mike Winger says. But when I learned about narcissism and became more qualified to judge, I found that it was evil.

[@Rikika333]

Conversation stoppers and thought terminating cliches are among some of the most basic tools that the religious use. On the topic of being "unfit to judge": my perspective is that it is possible to be so damn lost in the sauce that it makes no sense to the layman. Just look at some art-pieces where the "experts" praise it to high heaven and it's just some vapid nonsense like a banana taped to a wall. Sometimes you do need that completely "uneducated" outsiders perspective as a control, because otherwise you'll just fly away like an unanchored hot-air balloon.

[@emmaloraa]

After just coming out of Bible college and now being out of the faith - its fun to now be allowed to acknowledge the things that were simply bizarre in the bible. Show me a 5 christians in a room that actually agree on every part of theology and I will be amazed..so much for OBJECTIVE truth.. lol

[@MindShift-Brandon]

EXACTLY! and yes, its really free when its no longer holy to you and you can just look at it for what it is!

[@emmaloraa]

@MindShift hey Brandon, how do you deal with the apologists? Do you type back or leave it? I would like some advice..

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I need advice too! If theres a sincere question or a kind disagreement i try to engage or clarify but at a certain point its not beneficial to either side to keep going. Its harder than i thought for sure

[@OldNewsIsGoodNews]

Plus - especially if we;re getting into the dentist analogy - if we're assuming an all-powerful version of a god or gods, then the "you just don't get it" is kind of a lame cop out. An all-powerful being can make it so that you *do* get it/are capable of understanding on the appropriate level. A human parent won't always be able to make their child understand why certain unpleasant things are necessary, but if they had the power to make those things unnecessary or make their kid understand why it's necessary, wouldn't they do that? (And that can extend to the "well, you just don't understand the tattoo/culinary dish/etc that you're reviewing" analogy, as well. If the chef/artist in question is all-powerful, then *make* us able to understand the thing you want us to appreciate!)