You Have to Understand the Crucifixion and the Resurrection Together | with Aubrey Marcus

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Jonathan Pageau - Clips

Jonathan Pageau - Clips

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 96
@andrewofarkansas2121
@andrewofarkansas2121 2 жыл бұрын
I watched the full thing last night, and while I'll say that I left with more respect for Aubrey than I had going in, I'm not sure that he's as sincere as he presents. The main theme that came up over and over throughout the discussion was his emphasis on the ecstatic, pleasurable, and erotic. From my own past in this sort of sphere, I know how this works: They present you two options, the ecstatic or ascetic, and they tell you that both paths have been used by many religions to encounter the divine and that both are equal. It's presented as a fair and balanced choice. But of course, if you tell someone that they can either have really good sex while high or fast for a month, and that both paths can get them the same results, they're always going to choose the sex, and the person who presented that choice always knew that they were going to choose the sex. People like Aubrey feel like they can talk like they have a balanced view of this because they know that when those scales are balanced they always tip in their own favor. Throughout the talk, Aubrey is constantly struggling against Pageau to return to that balance point while Pageau (rightfully) tries to convince him that redemptive self-sacrifice is actually much higher than the alternative. In the last third or so Aubrey ends up having to cede a lot of ground, and I hope he might have learned something from from that, but only time will tell
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
As soon as he said he studied "mystical kabbalah"...😝
@glenholmgren1218
@glenholmgren1218 Жыл бұрын
@@watermelonlalala NAILED it! Kabbalists will do their thing and are seemingly ALWAYS trying to pervert what is God’s Intention / Design. 🙄😎👍🙏🏻
@2ichtwerker
@2ichtwerker 3 ай бұрын
This is a quiet accurate observation in my opinion. Very well put.
@l.sophia2803
@l.sophia2803 2 ай бұрын
In the yogic traditions there is seen an identical tension.. that of the bhogi vs the yogi, the bhogi comes to knowledge through worldly pleasure while yoga is the path through self discipline and right action for knowledge and ultimately for enlightened redemption.. the real masters teach self discipline of spiritual and moral practice, as the results are much faster and cause less suffering. The way of pleasure can get you to the same place, but its through learning that comes from the suffering that results from the sensual indulgence.. the teaching of the Buddha 'we come to nirvana by way of samsara' has been misunderstood, bigly. People think he meant that living in the illusion can take one to heaven, while in fact its a terrible deception for the feeble minded, and results from the suffering that comes for living in illusion resulting in delusion that instructs, eventually, through a lot of regret and pain.. also it leads to suffering of others due to our own indulgence which can bring us to compassion for the other inflicted by our own sin..its no bueno!
@Jim-Mc
@Jim-Mc 2 жыл бұрын
I think this is one of Jonathan's strongest topics.
@FrJohnBrownSJ
@FrJohnBrownSJ 2 жыл бұрын
Right on. He gets criticized for being too esoteric, too much into the depth and not the plain surface offering of Father, but in fact St. Paul describes Christ's sacrifice as "lacking" something; that something is us giving ourselves over to the mystery. Jonathan is a mystagogue.
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
@@FrJohnBrownSJ I think he is leading us down the wrong path, here. If he is speaking as a Christian, he should give some Christian citations.
@glenholmgren1218
@glenholmgren1218 Жыл бұрын
@@watermelonlalalahe is speaking to someone who gives no value to “Christian Citations”, and thus met (and bested) him on common ground. He is quite capable of citing Christian References / Sources - check his other work. 👍🙏🏻
@aprillee83
@aprillee83 2 жыл бұрын
Can’t have Joy/Bliss without self-sacrifice
@thattimestampguy
@thattimestampguy 2 жыл бұрын
0:30 The Cross ✝️ 1:25 Horizontal and Vertical Meeting 3:53 The Crucifixion, Union of Heaven and Earth. 4:38 Giving To Get 5:21 Self-Sacrifice 6:18 Team Needs Dedication To Higher Purpose 7:08 Love at the center 9:03
@FiremanKevin
@FiremanKevin 2 жыл бұрын
Isnt it ironic that all these spiritual ‘wisdom’ traditions of esoterica gobbity goop lack the simple wisdom of the Cross. Mainly because it requires humility. Which the esoteric crud is anathema to. So they literally can’t *see* it. God bless ☦️
@glenholmgren1218
@glenholmgren1218 Жыл бұрын
Well put! 🎯👍🙏🏻
@DoctorLazertron
@DoctorLazertron 2 жыл бұрын
He seems like a nice enough dude, I just found the cursing kind of inappropriate. I cuss like a sailor sometimes and it doesn't really bother me but don't most people have a 'swear switch' in certain company, and turn it off with someone who doesn't curse?
@vangoghsear8657
@vangoghsear8657 2 жыл бұрын
It's a marketing tactic.
@shivabreathes
@shivabreathes 8 ай бұрын
They think they are being ‘authentic’
@angiec9599
@angiec9599 2 жыл бұрын
Well done, Jonathan.
@uchechukwuibeji5532
@uchechukwuibeji5532 Жыл бұрын
Happy Good Friday☦️✝️!
@caseywhite3150
@caseywhite3150 2 жыл бұрын
He was held up TO GLORY
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
I think I remember that the cross was a symbol of Christ's Victory over Death.
@glenholmgren1218
@glenholmgren1218 Жыл бұрын
@@watermelonlalalaOh? I would have thought the empty tomb would be it …??? 🤷🏼🤔
@suppression2142
@suppression2142 Жыл бұрын
That was masterful
@Kim-33
@Kim-33 Жыл бұрын
This is so awesome
@thatdude_93
@thatdude_93 2 жыл бұрын
that man is such a spiritual stoner it's hard to believe
@peterrosqvist2480
@peterrosqvist2480 Жыл бұрын
Pageau?
@shaneemanuelle6243
@shaneemanuelle6243 Жыл бұрын
⁠@@peterrosqvist2480Jonathan Pageau has the most amazing mind I know of; ways of thinking and explaining that no one else can. No one else J know of comes close.
@aryanz66
@aryanz66 8 ай бұрын
Thank you
@AdventureArtGaming
@AdventureArtGaming Жыл бұрын
Would be pretty funny if the video just ended at 1:29
@323liska
@323liska 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting that he mentioned Ted Decker I was just thinking about him the other day. Black, red, and white were interesting books.
@Ggb427neo
@Ggb427neo 2 жыл бұрын
The crucifix also represent the four corners of the world at the edges and the intersection represent the heart of the world , " middle earth" Agartha . Like the vedic swastika to which the crucifix is analogous, the middle represent the absolute , the fixed the center and the " from whence all comes into being , the visible cross ➕ does not come into being without A center , likewise multiplicity does not come unto being without unity . In the cross , the one 1⃣ engender the 4 , in the swastika , the 1 engender the 4 that subsequently engender the 8 etc. It's a symbol among other things of the absolute engendering everything. René guénon wrote a good book on the subject called " Symbolism of the cross"
@WhatTruthIs
@WhatTruthIs 2 жыл бұрын
What a bunch of bullsh*t!
@Ggb427neo
@Ggb427neo 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatTruthIs what a Well thought out criticsm ... Try better
@Ggb427neo
@Ggb427neo 2 жыл бұрын
Its not only what i said , you know the cross came before christianity. If you just want To talk about what it means in christianity, pageau has already talk about it .
@Ggb427neo
@Ggb427neo 2 жыл бұрын
The center is the union of heaven( horizontal , soul , spirit) and earth ( vertical, chtonic, body) and i think is Well symbolise by Christ.
@WhatTruthIs
@WhatTruthIs 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ggb427neo I am not interested in men's opinion about spiritual matters. DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK. I only care what God thinks. You are DECEIVED and you don't know it. That is the beauty of deception. The deceived person does not think they are deceived. Even after being told, they will REFUSE the truth. Farewell.
@aryanz66
@aryanz66 8 ай бұрын
God bless
@lbwnova6654
@lbwnova6654 Жыл бұрын
Aubrey really tried to make pleasure and eroticism the same as self sacrifice lmfao. Good on Pageau to point out that even in sexual scenarios one must sacrifice some of their own pleasure to focus on their lover
@johnanyaogu5654
@johnanyaogu5654 9 ай бұрын
Beautiful
@blondetapperware8289
@blondetapperware8289 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of Eric Auerbach's concept of "Figura" that I learned in my English Theory and Criticism class, that is, one biblical event being fully realized by another that takes place long after it.
@bodenschatz10
@bodenschatz10 2 жыл бұрын
Ted Dekker?? Totally forgot about him, used to love his books.
@keithjohnsonYT
@keithjohnsonYT 2 жыл бұрын
If I understand correctly, there is no real script or plan for proper sacrifice, it is something emergent..it requires surrender, not getting things right.
@revalationrevaltion9291
@revalationrevaltion9291 2 жыл бұрын
Cross existed in old testament when death angel was unleashed on phero in Egypt Hebrews were told to mark with a lamb's blood on top of the frame of there doors and vertically on left rite sides of the door no one died when the blood of the lamb has covered you
@dillonfriz
@dillonfriz 8 ай бұрын
On the topic of the cross as a symbol of intersection, has anyone made the point of where it geographically happened as significant? It looks like modern day Israel was the point of intersection and covergance or a splitting of of human migration. So that could also have significance as the cross gathering in to the centre
@coryf6460
@coryf6460 3 ай бұрын
The reason why pleasure lacks cohesion with what JP is saying is because the nature of reality is not built on pleasure. it is built on sacrifice. as JP has said because we are all bound by time, space and matter. everything comes at the cost of something else and I guess that's the difference between true religion and the pleasure nonsense is that one is contextualizing the act of sacrifice and suffering into a greater cosmic whole while the other doesn't speak to the fractal patterns that we experience
@CrystallineWyvern
@CrystallineWyvern 2 жыл бұрын
Jonathan's explanation is great as usual, but I do think he ought to have addressed eros (and flow) as such a bit more in response to Aubrey's points about joy. Eros and agape should be seen as mutually affording and reciprocal, and sometimes Christianity comes off as a purely moralistic agape-only religion (probably derived in large part from Kant, the Puritans, and pietists, and which someone like Kierkegaard falls into).
@daves-c8919
@daves-c8919 2 жыл бұрын
But I think Pageau’s point is that Eros and agape and flow are all linked to the resurrection. It’s in sacrificing yourself that all of these things align on the other side. And there was no way of imagining it until you did it.
@CrystallineWyvern
@CrystallineWyvern 2 жыл бұрын
@@daves-c8919 But there is also a way in which all three come together spontaneously *at the same time* due to being inspired by something beautiful - which can evoke a pure eros in those with the appropriate disposition, which then leads into wishing to share such beauty and give to it (agape). Training sophrysine (which Vervaeke argues is best translated as being tempted toward the good, rather than doing it out of extrinsic motivations such as a time-delayed reward, or fear of punishment) in the sense of cultivating virtuous habits is key here. The language of sacrifice is often misleading because it evokes suffering and drama, but Jonathan uses it in a very broad and yet technical sense to refer to all acts of attending to one thing and foregoing others (and is thus appropriate within his model). In this ubiquitous sense one can use the language of sacrifice accurately for what I'm trying to convey, but I think its important to remember that Christ only suffered because humans rejected his offer of the kingdom - i.e. suffering is contingent, even while sacrifice in the sense of attention is not, is ubiquitous, even though agapeic living (self-offering in love to God and others) can make one more susceptible to experiencing external suffering in a world tainted by human sinfulness. Not making this clear can I think turn people away from Christianity as it can appear to be masochistic and / or only based on extrinsic delayed-gratification. I'd also disagree that there's no way of imagining the results until doing it, in those situations where there is more of an objective time delay. This is the importance (including religious importance) of the imaginative faculty, predictive modeling, and serious play, which is what ritual is. Without imagining the outcome people wouldn't make sacrificial or long-term decisions. But even this is a somewhat lesser, if helpful, mode of motivation, again, as compared to doing the good out of an intrinsic love for the beauty of the good, of God and neighbor.
@maximeb190
@maximeb190 8 ай бұрын
I believe Aubrey's lack of children keeps hiim stuck in a non-sacrificial and purely "selfish" exploration of spirituality.
@aprillee83
@aprillee83 2 жыл бұрын
Can you play basketball well without some suffering (hard work/sacrifice)? I don’t think so, dude.
@dann10000
@dann10000 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that's the thing, it's still a sacrifice and Aubrey equates sacrifice with pain and aversion. I wonder if it has something to do with "being in the spirit", like " being in the spirit of basketball" and then you like the sacrifice or you're being "in the spirit of Christ" and you like praying, you like working at the homeless shelter, spending years in development work in poor countries even though you lack comfort. There's something in here
@GhostofFranky
@GhostofFranky 2 жыл бұрын
Marcus pretends like michael jordan was just having an orgasm playing basketball all the time, like no one ever mentioned how hard MJ was working during practice
@toenuckles
@toenuckles 2 жыл бұрын
Markus is so sleazy. He's a caricature
@MasseyThaiBoxing
@MasseyThaiBoxing 2 жыл бұрын
I so agree, there's something really off about him
@toenuckles
@toenuckles 2 жыл бұрын
@@MasseyThaiBoxing the son of an oil tycoon and sex toy designer. He uses his position as a pop new age guru to collect a harem to satiate his sex addiction. It just grosses me out cos I've seen it lots in real life in the polyamory/festival scene
@MasseyThaiBoxing
@MasseyThaiBoxing 2 жыл бұрын
@@toenuckles wow super gross. Why is Jonathan talking to him at all 🤣
@toenuckles
@toenuckles 2 жыл бұрын
@@MasseyThaiBoxing gives me something to ponder, 'pearls before swine' vs spreading the word
@MasseyThaiBoxing
@MasseyThaiBoxing 2 жыл бұрын
@@toenuckles Jonathan has said many times that what he is doing is dangerous and not something to take lightly, I fully agree
@ginettest-denis7113
@ginettest-denis7113 5 ай бұрын
Eros, philla et agape ...
@user-hf1ot1wg5g
@user-hf1ot1wg5g 8 ай бұрын
If you have to explain your joke it’s not funny. Likewise, sharing a story that has to be explained in order to understand its meaning is impractical and confusing. Therefore, why would anyone share a story that only dead people thousands of years ago would understand? Or why give an analogy that only a certain group of people would understand? Do not confuse a principal with a story Do not fuse a principal with a story The truth is the principal not the story There is more than one way to teach a principal The story is malleable the principal is rigid The principal is sacred not the story The story explains the truth, but it’s not the truth itself The story is the menu not the meal
@PilgrimMission
@PilgrimMission 2 жыл бұрын
The ultimate version is not us sacrificing, Jonathan, it is God Himself offering his only son as a sacrifice FOR US. Jonathan, you need to preach the offense of the cross or you will have somebody like this understanding that you are saying something very different, (sexual favors)as his reply demonstrated. Just tell him the Nicene creed, if at all you believe it to be true. You are hiding the light under a bushel of cleverness. "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the Good News; and not in merely wise words--lest the Cross of Christ should be deprived of its power." Be bold and tell the whole truth, you will be surprised at the outcome.
@jacksonbloftis
@jacksonbloftis 2 жыл бұрын
And he that taketh not his Cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me.
@Tristan_Willcox
@Tristan_Willcox 2 жыл бұрын
i doubt jonathan will see this, but if he ends up replying to this comment, ive always had this in the back of my head when Jesus says you must be born again to see the kingdom of God, if by showing the symbolism of the cross, which i would say is more spiritually mature food to people who do not have the holy spirit, it is akin to throwing pearls amoung swine, and does have a emptying effect on the power of the cross paul talks about in corinthians. Since they do not have the holy spirit they cannot dicern the spiritual truths which you are sharing. Would like to know your thoughts.
@1214gooner
@1214gooner 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, this was explained. He didn’t use elementary, evangelical language. Boohoo. I always see these ignorant, empirical-sperg comments on his videos. 😂
@dann10000
@dann10000 2 жыл бұрын
No he shouldn't do that. How he handles the situation is very very hard but it's reaching a big amount of listeners and he's not only talking to Aubrey but also his listeners. I came to the faith because of Jonathan. I wasn't raised religious, I was an atheist for most of my life and it was because of his symbolism lectures, that I thought there's more. I'm not baptized yet, I'm still a catechumen, but I can see glimpses of what he's talking about. God is great because we can see his works in everything. People that grew up with religion should see that people that didn't have so many defense mechanisms and walls in place, you cannot imagine. You're the ingroup, be aware of that. It's easy for the ingroup to impose on the stranger and that's how you keep them away from the faith. In the past if somebody didn't care to speak the same language as me, my mechanisms kicked in and I thought "that guy just wants to convince me of something I cannot even see". I'm happy the apostles went out of their ways to spread the word, I'm thankful for them and I'm thankful their willing to enter the weirdest world's only to spread the gospel
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
@@1214gooner He didn't explain the cross symbol.
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
Citations needed for every explanation JP gives. I have studied symbolism all my life, and never heard of any of these meanings in Christian symbolism or pagan, except from modern people projecting back on ancients. Erotic relationships? No.
@daves-c8919
@daves-c8919 2 жыл бұрын
“Being married to God” Isn’t the church itself considered a wife? You don’t think that was meant as intimate and erotic? Why would that be the only aspect of marriage that omitted?
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
@@daves-c8919 Nuns were married to God, but they didn't have erotic experiences with God, as far as I know. The Bridegroom symbolism is strange, I have never heard it used in connection with the Holy Cross. Roman Catholics got rid of all the pagan drunken orgies. That was the Simon Magnus gnostics/Satanism.
@daves-c8919
@daves-c8919 2 жыл бұрын
@Brendan Hall It’s true, the Catholics got rid of a lot of the sexuality. Sexuality is this shadowy, hidden taboo in catholic life, and that choice has been profoundly damaging. Maybe going back before the catholic prudishness can enlighten us as to the proper way of incorporating sexuality into our lives, so priests can have a positive relationship with their sexuality, instead of doing these weird, twisted, shame-soaked atrocities in the shadows.
@watermelonlalala
@watermelonlalala 2 жыл бұрын
@@daves-c8919 It's not damaging, whatsoever. It's correct. If you want a lingam and a yoni, be a Hindu.
@daves-c8919
@daves-c8919 2 жыл бұрын
@@watermelonlalala If you say so. But I think putting all of human sexuality into a space of shadows and secrets, where wives can’t speak about their sexual experiences and priests are expected to live asexually...it’s been a psychological catastrophe for many many Catholics. I’m glad Freud and Jung and the feminist movements of the 60’s went searching into those shadows, or else we’d still be telling our kids their erections are because of demons.
@WhatTruthIs
@WhatTruthIs 2 жыл бұрын
What a bunch of nonsense. I am not interested in your opinion, and neither is God. Either you are a Jesuit, and you are either deceived or you are a deceiver, or both. To get justified and saved by God, please read or hear preached from an authorized King James Version Bible; the first four chapters of the book of Romans and at this time I say, declare the righteousness of God. If you have been seeking God in truth and in Spirit, He will know when you read the book that He translated His words into English in, and He will know when you declare His righteousness because when you read Him, He reads you back! Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Jesus has another name. Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. There is only ONE Jesus. There is is only ONE The Word of God, in any particular language. God translated His words into English using His Holy Spirit and used 54 Holy men from around the world, who spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance and their words were written down. In English!
@keansalzer8364
@keansalzer8364 2 жыл бұрын
Imagine having an opportunity to reveal the cross and meandering verbally around exploring words like horizontal, vertical, square, paying taxes, basketball team core values, and binding family together through child sacrifice. It's the most brutal form of punishment. I love symbology, but some words break down when you try to force symbolism on them. Words like Jesus, Heaven, and Cross stand outside the realm of symbols.
@reverie4632
@reverie4632 2 жыл бұрын
Please reveal the cross that is outside the realm of symbols to me. How do you experience it?
@leondbleondb
@leondbleondb 2 жыл бұрын
The cross is literally a symbol
@keansalzer8364
@keansalzer8364 2 жыл бұрын
@@reverie4632 It is a device, planted in the minds of Romans, designed to create death painfully. Rejecting the term "fascist" they sent down into the garbage soil their enemies. Send a constant message. A reminder of one's requirements. But The ones who would supplant their power - The crazy ones who wouldn't obey the State. But the one who planted the design intended a second use...a one-time only use...to kill the Son...the king who they rejected...traitors dancing at the foot like bulls of Bashan...gods drunk with foolish power only to see once again the Unique One turn the trick into a trap. Breaking the curse. Dooming the dark side and releasing Grace upon the other nations. Bringing them back home. Warming their frigid hearts by well-tended fires in the fireplace. It is a thing. I admit it can be a symbol. For a Christian wearing it says "I believe in Jesus", or "I believe in God" depending on one's orientation toward the Word. Perhaps it was a gift from Grandma and it symbolizes a personal love. But the cross, to me, is a historical part of my life. Like a childhood toy it flashes images when I reflect on it. I see my beloved passing it day after day knowing He will very soon sweat under that sun, crying out for drink, lifting his torso once again to breathe, pain unbearable in the hands and feet...and only He and the Father knew the other pain that would be laid on Him...the punishment for my sins. The only way for the Father to rescue me from an eternity of suffering at the hands of demons. The anticipation of that day, longed for since the Day of the Curse, and the dread of it caused blood to flow from his forehead while quiet in a cool garden at night. It's the first day of the Greatest 3 Days in Human and Elohim History. It's covered in His blood. Dark soil stained by a spear thrust. Mothers weeping. Disciples frantic and undone. It's a thing that happened to me years ago that forever changed my life. Like a survivor who lived through a jet crash it will never go away. It has become the central point of my life. But not just the first day. My imagination dances in the Second Day and rejoices in the 3rd. And to think, only some believe even after he resurrects and walks with his friends for over a month teaching them and watching them grow from cowards to the bravest men who ever lived. It's an event. A thing. A reality from my past that forms my present and my future. Thank God it's not a symbol competing with other religions for its significance.
@ButterBobBriggs
@ButterBobBriggs 2 жыл бұрын
Kean Salzer - You do realize that Jonathan talks to a lot of non-Christians and he does it so well because he respects the person he is speaking to by using their understandings of the world, their vocabulary, to talk about Christ. His method is 1 Corinthians 9:22, it's also the method Paul uses at Athens speaking of a statue of an unknown god as a starting point. Hitting a non-Christian over the head is not productive and anyone who has ever tried it knows it completely shuts down a conversation and sometimes ends a relationship.
@1214gooner
@1214gooner 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, this was explained. He didn’t use elementary, evangelical language. Boohoo. I always see these ignorant, empirical-sperg comments on his videos. 😂
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