You & Your Terminator - A Guide to Generic Legion Terminators

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[@drose5718]

Could you to a tier of legion specific terminators? Could be interesting and fun I guess

[@TheOuterCircle]

D Rose of course I will. But I wanted to wait until book 9 because that should give us the Deathwing and Atramentar.

[@TheOuterCircle]

You got your wish today.

[@drose5718]

The Outer Circle I saw, clicked that video so damn fast when the notification popped up

[@smoth7]

TYRANTS! IRONWITHOUT MOTHERFUCKERS!

[@TehJimjams]

Appreciate the comment for us colour blind folks, it is always a bit tricky on tables like that. By the way, love your videos, found them recently and have been watching all of your backlog. Keep up the great work keeping GW honest!!

[@bruvamichal7437]

best terminator armor is obviously Perturabo :-P

[@krism.6598]

The Virgin Tartaros -ergonomic design to decrease wind resistance while he runs away -low invuln that prioritizes retreat -can overwatch, like a coward -only used by nerds like the Thousand Sons The Chad Cataphractii -doesn’t run, saunters confidently toward any foe -can tank anything his opponent throws at him -has never overwatched in his life, takes every charge on the chin and completely no sells it, then laughs as his opponent runs away -used by manly legions like the Death Guard and World Eaters

[@arhis2010]

Absolutely beautiful comment

[@smoth7]

cattaphractii have big dix!

[@-undecided-1663]

The virgin cataphractii -low mobility leaves it painfully unable to react to tactical situations -users so slow they can be efficiently killed from range before they can do anything -users are so encumbered they can't even raise a combi-bolter before an enemy charges them -greater invuln as user is too cowardly to take hits -used by stupid legions like the world eaters and death guard, who mindlessly charge their enemy or just walk towards them, allowing themselves to be cut down The chad tartaros -high mobility allows them to adapt to any tactical situation -users fast enough to reach the enemy before they can be picked off from range -users able to shoot an enemy stupid enough to charge them with contemptuous ease -lower invuln as user is manly enough to take direct hits -used by enlightened legions like the thousand sons who don't unnecessarily waste lives as they see war as a necessary evil to create a wonderful psychic future where everyone can be as enlightened as they are

[@smoth7]

@@-undecided-1663 laughs in tyrant siege terminators.

[@Jaghatai_Kahn]

Isnt it that world eaters don't really use terminator armor due to it slowing them down, thus less tiem is spent on killing and more on moving? Or am i recalling that incorrectly and it wss angron who looked down on his terminator honor guard.

[@TB-ps6wc]

I base my choice on legion style. My Raven guard uses tartaros and my death guard cataphracti.

[@thewayfarer8849]

Really like these breakdowns, I like lore but the practical unit analysis is just insanely useful. Would you mind doing this for praetor suggestions and troop choices, like "this unit suits X legion well in both fluff and crunch" etc?

[@TheOuterCircle]

The Wayfarer well I did a rundown of Consuls a while back.

[@thewayfarer8849]

@@TheOuterCircle I watched that one and quite liked it (y) Tbh do what you feel inspired to do really, I just floated the suggestion because your getting started vids are pretty great

[@dwharden1]

This video was very helpful, thx for the constant delivery of good content and straight talk with no BS 👍🏻

[@mscandlex]

I don't even play 30k but love the insight you bring to the table and your touch of humor. I enjoy having these on the backgound while I paint and build

[@FamousJX]

LOVE THESE VIDEOS! More of these please! Amazing. and thank you. :)

[@williamford3605]

God bless it I love these videos. I've been binge listening/watching for about 9 days now. Keep up the good work fine sir.

[@OzymandiasRex]

Oh man, I've been hoping for a video like this!

[@sanctusservus4714]

I'm sorry, the moment I say the thumbnail and saw the line "which Terminator is the Chad" I laughed. Was not expecting to see that. Nice.

[@henrythe9th377]

marcus aurelius Is Chad an Aussie référence?

[@sanctusservus4714]

@@henrythe9th377 no, I've seen it everywhere. it's just the mental image.

[@chris8878]

MACCA try this: For iron warriors I use Erasmus Golg special character with Orbital Assault RoW (2500-3000pt games). Hes not great but makes terminators troops choice.. yes I have 50+ cataphractii all powerfists and 10 Tyrant siege terminators with a siege breaker. My elites are filled with graviton rapiers and quad mortars (phospex) all in drop pods due to the RoW, kheres contemptor AA in drop pod. I've had success and fails in games outlasting on objectives but it drops people's jaws when there's no tanks only wall of 2+ 4++ and I'm Iron warriors not a terminator bonused legion.

[@eddymercan7487]

Top tier list, I take 10 siege tyrants and 10 twin LC cataphractii myself

[@TheOuterCircle]

Blitz 88 been there, done it. Tyrants are a heavy choice, and not not he list of Legion Terminators, and they don’t score. You become reliant on them to arrive and whilst you will win plenty of games with your list, an Alpha Legion player with a Land Raider with upgraded signal disruption will drop you to reinforcements on 6’s only. Your hard counter right there.

[@raul92a]

eyy was just watching your other vid cool to see a new one while i eat.

[@socialanimalmedia]

So...is anyone else here really holding out hope for an Atramentar release sometime? In my mind they would so cool having a pair of lightning claws each WITH a shoulder mounted volkite, plasma or some sort of (short to medium) ranged weapon - a little like Iron Warriors Tyrants Siege Terminators in that regard.

[@cultistmeat-shield]

Aparently the next HH campaign book is night lords vs dark angels. If this is true then Atramentar seem likely, though we've only just had book 8 so it might be quite a while before we get the next one

[@blessedpeas]

sighs in contekar

[@Krullio]

Nice to read this years past and how wrong we were

[@demonicjapsel]

We got Atramentar in the new free supplement, and frankly, they are pretty decent!

[@aleksandersokal5279]

If you fight Battle of Terra you can even use Mark VII Power Armour, since they got couple of batches before the Fall of Mars. Edit: I wrote mark 8 and not mark 7 in the unedited post, what I meant was mark 7.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Lord Alex mkVII. The armour you refer to is Errant Armour is post-Heresy by quite a bit. Also, mkVII was only prototype suits and barely a few thousand spread between 3 legions, so people running full armies of 40k marines in pre-siege games will probably earn the ire of the community.

[@aleksandersokal5279]

@@TheOuterCircle I meant that you could have some squad members like sergeants or centurions wearing them. For example Germans had Tiger Tanks at the end of World War II, but it doesn't mean that tanks of the German Army were King Tigers. P.S.: 40K armies apart from armor are also different in their unit distinctions and squad, company, battalion and chapter symbols since Codex Astartes was not yet finished and accepted until the Great Scouring. By all means a 30K army should be different than a 40K army, I am just saying that in some cases in the Heresy it can be used. (Also, yes I meant mark VII not mark VIII, I simply pressed "I" too much.)

[@fernandorivera4719]

@@TheOuterCircle An idea I had about MKVII was to do an IF force with 2 breacher units using the FW boarding shields upgrade. About half the 40k tactical marine legs are not exclusively MKVII, so they could be given the spare head/torsos from Phalanx Warders/Templar Bretheren. Then buy enough MKIII to complete two 20-man tactical squads. Would result in an army where about 25% is MKVII, 50% MKIII, and 25% other armor patterns. Armor patterns like MKVI could be given to veterans, since they're the ones that would've gotten the spoils of war against the Alpha Legion in Pluto.

[@627hjc]

The main bonus i utilise from my SoH cataphractii is the cheaper dreadclaw dedicated transport at 100 and then load up on cheap combi weapons for the death dealers rule on turn one. If used with Long March you get to reroll ones to hit also. Specific builds yes:... I do wish they had character access to the Cthonian culling blade that Tybalt Marr has though, that suits them well.

[@MarkusKrassius]

Since I just started my Imperial Fists 30k army and I was really struggling with which terminators to take, because Tartaros are more useful, but Cataphractii are more durable and look better I came up with the following. Since the storm shields come with Cataphractii arms, as well as the Assault Cannons and most other terminator power weapons too, I think that Tartaros Terminators with Cataphractii arms would look amazing as a solution - best of both worlds. What do you guys think?

[@SwordlordRoy]

Granted, I only have the red books, but the interpretation I got was that the base stat-line was the Indomitus-pattern, with you being able to upgrade to Tartaros or Cataphractii.

[@irondarknessdarkness8900]

this is a good rundown, however i want to say a lot depends on setting....tartaros is open field armor cataphratii is closed field armor such as tunnles and spaceships /hive cities blocks.

[@davidring681]

I’ve been looking for a video or any tips on this for weeks. Already bought a squad of Tartaros terminators

[@DMDemon1987]

I want to make a big 10 man squad of Tartaros with mid to close rang equipment for my Emperor's Children. I'm looking for any advice or tips. I have Spartan Land Raider I can carry them in as well to get them across the table

[@keithrimer8415]

Great video! So, I’m playing death guard, Tartaros are affected by the Reaping’s special rule of no running. But take Tartaros anyway for the run down in close combat and overwatch? Would you then recommend a transport for them to get them where I need them?

[@TheOuterCircle]

Keith Rimer Death Guard make really effective use of both, such as in the Deathshroud/Grave Warden scenario. Running down is handy, but in reaping you use a lot of transports, so do you need the running down?

[@DaLEGOmaniac]

Wow this game has so much to it. Also zone mortalis seems to be incredibly popular. Haven’t seen where it is sold though so I assume it is gone. Thanks to the magic of 3D printing that won’t be a problem if I finally get into this game somehow, and also gain access to the library 3D printer. Found it really easy, but the prices are outrageous. 86 usd for several doors. Yikes.

[@shakyfocusanimations4636]

Hey macca, I have a question, can the old predators that are pictured in the third edition codex be used in 30k as they have circular turrets (like the forge World ones) and mk1 rhino chassis. Thanks!

[@TheOuterCircle]

shakyfocus animations of course you can use them.

[@shakyfocusanimations4636]

Thanks

[@m0nolith423]

I have to admit, I miss your "Is it shit?" videos.

[@Jackalos1]

Couple of things I noticed: EC Phoenix Spears also confer +1 Strength on the charge EC make better use of their legion rules with Tartaros IF storm shields are 10Pts with Cataphractii and 15Pts with Tartaros

[@TheOuterCircle]

JDizzle they do confer the +1 strength but I didn’t mention it because the ap2 at initiative is the key advantage of the weapon, and it only really applies to the Sgt of the squad anyway.

[@TheExcessus]

Thousand Sons termies can get +1 invul save with the correct arcana chosen, for the table.

[@thescarletpumpernel3305]

could well be wrong, but couldn't space wolves take frost weapons/claws on legion terminators?

[@TheOuterCircle]

TheScarletPumpernel I reread the rules and it seems to be vaguely worded. My take-away was IC’s and units with them listed as an option like Varagyr could, but not Legion Terminators. I could be wrong of course, and if they can take them, I would still call them mediocre.

[@CaptainPlunk]

You have to get transport into th line for comparaison purpose I think. Imo unless specific ROW you need transport all the time for terminator units let it be phobos raiders or dreadclaws I'd say for all melee legions you want tartaros and for "shooty" ones the cataphractii. For Word Bearers you have the niche bonus of the possessed of whatever it's called option and hope for +str or zaelot and not the useless daemon roll. And why power daggers sound bad to you ? +1 A on PF is nice on characters ! Apot + termis is tending to deathsatr units which are not a fun way of playing this game IMO

[@branditolars2585]

I just wanted to know why for word bearers he didn't mention dark channeling?

[@TheSpongebobe1]

What would you recommend regarding the size of a squad. I'm currently running a five man tartaros squad armed with volkite chargers, fists and plasma blaster. I play Alpha Legion and was never a fan of the the special ammo.

[@TheOuterCircle]

ryan snypes 5 man units for objectives, 10 man if you want to rampage through the enemy army.

[@TheSpongebobe1]

@@TheOuterCircle thanks to the feedback mate 👍

[@Deadphoenix91]

thank you so much for your content. I recently started my 30k Blood Angels Legions thanks to your getting started videos and overall help. Is there a way you could do a beginners match somehow,To show the rules in action? Either way I love your content. Keep it up

[@scarfymonster]

So RAW the vanilla terminator is the same as Tartaros but cannot sweeping advance. Which means you might as well take tartaros. Unless you really want to run 40k models in your 30k game. In which case the rules are also pretty clear that they “count as” what they are, no proxying them as one of the other types for the cool bonus. That said though, they could be a cool fluffy for certain legions (IH I think?) who had access to the “rare” Indomitus pattern.

[@kizzdougs]

Great run down Macca! I'm a big fan of my Alpha Legion Tartaros with Comb-plasma in ZM, but in larger games the 5++ can be a bit underwhelming. Also, you didn't mention that Emperor's Children Terminators have Crusader which is a nice little bonus when you run Tartaros.

[@user-dp4ok9ox5w]

*Raven's Talons get Master Crafted AND Shred.* Also it is Levitation, not Teleport. PS. Alpha Legion players think otherwise about the Power Daggers...

[@N3vermercy]

Nice Video 👍 I think you should have brought up the unique legion terminators more though, for instance the iron warriors tyrant siege terminators make there basic cataphratii almost pointless, while the tartaros can still fill a role as a much quicker assault unit for them making them the better out of those two for the iron warriors.

[@red4foxela]

So what legion specific Terminators are worth taking and why? Whats good about Gorgons or Grave Warden?

[@TheOuterCircle]

Alex that’s a topic for its own video

[@red4foxela]

Exactly :)

[@e-jlehti1489]

Alpha Legion Power dagger does not replace any other weapon so, I take them for all sergeants that have power fists. 5p extra attack is worth it. Also. Due to rending and normal iniativen, a fellow alpha legion player has won a few challenges using it instead of the fist.

[@e-jlehti1489]

But I never take bane strike or venom granades, too expensive for low utility.

[@DeanxPeaceMaker]

Iron warriors would probably use cataphractii armour more than Tartarus

[@warhounds]

imagine if imperial fists catapchractii had 2+ invo, that would be brutal af

[@henrythe9th377]

So basically, Imperial Fists terminators are the best

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

For tartaros: Imp fists. For Cataphractii: Salamanders (tho those are special terminators, the Firedrakes. No seriously unit of firedrakes with shields, a Primus medicae and a transport might as well be represented by using a giant middle finger as the unit, even without good weapons, they are basically unkillable, even by most Primarchs.)

[@sparkitus1988]

@@thespanishinquisition4078 its true, mine tanked mortarion and a full squad of legion termies on the charge, wiped them and morty in 3 rounds of combat. the sgt tanked the challenge from morty. The rolls saved me ;) The easiest way to choose your termies (any type, unique or standard) is based on how you are going to run your army, the rites of war and your style of play. For me, its my 10 shield and hammer Firedrakes in a Spartan or Mastodon with an artificer armour Chaplain and my paragon blade and shield cataphractii Praetor. (they are tanky enough, their weakness is low attack amounts and requirement to clear units in 1 round) it's a lot of points but a serious problem for any army coming across it. I use the original rite of war the salamanders have (the covenant of fire) to give all units (vehicles included) move through cover. This seriously makes even foot slogging (which will happen now and again if the transport dies some how) more viable for the cataphractii. My Salamander armies are normally smaller in infantry model counts, but the majority of it is 2+ saves. 70% roughly. In simple terms, pick what works best for you, not anyone else. :)

[@jarosaww2825]

@@sparkitus1988 so far I'm avoiding teaming the primus with them, but they never failed me. Maby not as some kind of killing machine, but they just walk through plasma shots and tarpit some scary assault unit (like 2 units of gal vorbak speeding for my scoring units ) to the rest of the game. Also they are invalid without transport, no running and no sweeps... ouch.

[@sparkitus1988]

Don't need to sweep when there is no enemy left 😉

[@TheOuterCircle]

Thousand Sons Terminators are the best, the Imperial fists can’t compete with Telekinesis cult Sons.

[@Scott-cy1ce]

You're wrong about Tartaros being best for Death Guard. In order to get rad grenades, you have to take the reaping, you can't ever run with the reaping so you may as well take Cataphractii as at least you'll get the extra save

[@TheOuterCircle]

Incorrecto. Whilst you cannot run in the Reaping ROW, you can still overwatch, and given how many chem flamers you have, Tartarus can really come into its own, ESPECIALLY in ZM games.

[@forgefartherloki6585]

Just anything involving teminators imma running

[@01oo011]

Cataphractii. There is no other!

[@Skylifter1000]

Just a few comments on Alpha Legion, which I think you got completely wrong. 1: The power dagger is great. Any character can take it, which means my terminator sergeant gets 3 attacks base with his power fist or chain fist (only time a chainfist on the sergeant instead of a normal terminator actually makes some sense). And if he really ever comes up against a guy in power armour in a challenge, he'll just actually use the dagger to kill him before he strikes (remember some of the special characters actually have power armour and then only a 4+ or even 5+ invul, though most of those then actually don't have an ap2 weapon, but anyway, that is just a tiny little extra, you buy this thing for the extra power fist attack). And it's only 5 points. Why the hell WOULDN'T I take it? 2: Banestrike ammunition is crap. it reduces the doubletap range to 9 inches, and it costs just 8 points less than combiplasmas for the 4 guys in the squad that would use it. I'd rather take the combiplasmas than poor man's rending. Do the maths, 8 shots twin-linked is 7 hits, that is 1 (ONE) AP3 wound. Wow. And it's not like I'm going to use my bolters more than twice in a game usually, so I can pay 20 points for 2 AP3 wounds at 9 inches, or 28 for 4 AP2 (only 4 because the combiplasmas aren't twin-linked and only shoot once) at 12. My vote goes to the plasma, considering anything I really need to kill with terminators will likely be wearing the 2-up-pants. So yeah, I don't know your meta, but where I live, Banestrike is a waste of points, but everyone wishes their legion had power daggers.

[@lochurquhart1499]

You didn't do black shields, can you do another video?

[@TheOuterCircle]

loch urquhart was this close to adding them after the Alpha Legion here... but because of the different types of Blackshields so dramatically effecting their weapons and wargear, they need seperate coverage.

[@lochurquhart1499]

@@TheOuterCircle that's a fair point I look forward to the video at some point

[@Thatworldeatersguy]

i believe your wrong about the imperial fists storm shield, i believe it grants you only a +1 to your invulnerable save.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Vigil Pattern storm shield is a flat 3++, the Salamanders Dragonscale Shield is +1 to existing saves.

[@billdoor1569]

Hold on, I thought we had 3 types to choose from, indomitus, cata and tartaros armour, are you saying indomitus is just a counts as rather than an option?

[@tristanpiazza8883]

They were introduced in the fluf towards the very end of the heresy, it became the standard after. Basically the indomitus is lighter and let's you run ( like the tartaros ) and has a 5++ ( like the tartaros )

[@billdoor1569]

@@tristanpiazza8883 I know the fluff behind it I was asking if I have missed something basically, I thought the options were 1: indomitus 2: Tartorus and 3: Cataphractii From what macca is saying its 1: tartorus 2: cataphractii and that is it.

[@tristanpiazza8883]

@@billdoor1569 All 3 definetly exist, I was he was saying that in the context on a game of HH, you could proxy a Indomitus pattern as a Tartaros

[@mrspeigel3593]

We do it was Cataphractii, Indomitus the Tartaros. Tartaros was the last most advanced design that was rolled out just before the Heresy, the terminator equivalent of mk IV power armour. All 3 are valid in Heresy FW doesn't make any models because GW has that covered.

[@RocketHarry865]

I think there needs to be a rule that in terminator armour combi weapons will count as pistols If I made 40k and 30k I would have made Terminators toughness 5 and 2 wounds though Cataphractic terimantor armour would increase it to toughness 6

[@FamousJX]

supercataphractiilisticexpialidocious

[@thehappy15a]

Chadaphracti looks cool

[@ValValium08]

I like how Macca just skips the Ultramarines altogether even tho all the other legions with no direct benefits (Iron warriors, Sons of Horus, Space wolves) all got some little blurbs about either their special terminators or how to incorporate the legion specific rules. Anyway, as an 13th Legion player and since Macca here didnt want even try to elaborate, everyone knows Ultramarines are good at everything, masters at nothing right? I look at it as an advantage most of the time as there is no "I have to kill that unit right now thats a threat at all times and it must be dealt with" unit. Some people would say Suzerains are, but at the end of the day, they are not any more of a problem than any other legion specific elite unit (minus something like phoenix terms, Sorry Emps Children!) That being said - Incorporating the legion specific rules for ultramarines - you can field terminators that can: - reroll 1s to wound when shooting (assuming the unit has already been hit) -reroll failed charges (assuming the unit is already in combat) - and takes Fear/Regroup tests on 10s Examples of when this is handy (and no limited to): -My combi-plasma equipped terminator squad shoots at a squad of enemy infantry that my Rhino "tagged" already. My plasma that hits successfully wounds on 2s with a reroll. PRetty good for being a basic Ultramarine infantry unit. This of course extends to your term with a heavy flamer, plasma blaster, and reaper autocannon. - My combi melta wielding terminators get to reroll Penetration rolls of 1. Same thing as before - really good. - My 5 cataphracti terminators lead the assault into the enemy gunline, 4 of em die, 1 gets in. My suzerain/additional terms/other infantry are right behind and they all get rerolls to any charge that may fail. Teamwork makes the dream work. Maybe the ultramarines terminator isnt the best legion terminator, but it is still a super handy unit combined with the legion specific rules. In my mind they are excellent because you get these little extra bonuses that enhance the rest of your army in some fashion or open up strategic options and youy pay the same amount of points as anyone else would. Flexibile and Fluffy - worth every point. Definitely didnt need to be skipped entirely - Cheers

[@lordturkenants326]

I just want a cataphraci because they look cool

[@lordturkenants326]

*Cataphractii

[@alfadasfire]

Cataphractii look a lot cooler than Tartaros, so I choose Cataphractii :)

[@noble6521]

Can I use 30k stuff in 40k games

[@nickmoore6294]

noble 6 Yes you can for most units

[@noble6521]

Nick Moore what units can’t I use

[@nickmoore6294]

noble 6 I don't have a list but I know things like volkite weapons don't exist in 40k

[@noble6521]

Nick Moore ah ok

[@blaked7532]

Sisters of Silence piss me off ................ i play Thousand Sons 😭

[@CaptinCrofty]

Cool but tier lists are the favour of the month.

[@davidwasilewski]

10 cataphracti in a spartan... every time..

[@jc5512]

Advert after 60 seconds. Unbelievable

[@Vairy_2972]

First

[@viscounttudon68]

Don’t care, Cataphractii looks cooler