Your Stats are Useless. (how OW2 fools you)

[@e.d.5766]

I think the easiest example I give to explain this is Widowmaker. Sure, a good Widowmaker can have a lot of kills, but think about how many times the enemy team has had a pretty bad Widowmaker, but your Tank still has to shield them off, or your Damage has to keep trying to dive them, or your Supports have to play slowly and carefully behind cover. The threat, even without the damage that shows on the scoreboard, does so much to control your team, making it harder to win.

[@thermalThrottled]

Swear dude, it so fucking frustrating when a mediocre widowmaker can hit 1/10 shots and still change the flow of the match so heavily.

[@commentbot9510]

As widow I can be behind on damage and kills but still be doing well imo because during a few team fights I got multiple solo kills.

[@ducasse8473]

Which is funny how this works. Because if you play widowmaker at a low enough rank. And your aim is also bad enough. You have to really work hard to gain enough respect in order for your threat to matter. It's weird how, the higher I climb as genji. The more games I find where I can swap to widow. And my presence on widow even with body shots, is sometimes enough to make alot of space. Very interesting dynamic between the players of this game and this character tbh.

[@P-39_Airacobra]

Oftentimes I can play widowmaker and see the effect I'm having on the fight, without even taking a shot

[@Dragosmom.]

​@@commentbot9510especially if you get the kills during ult fights. Waste ults and teamkill.

[@kennethcarow442]

"We need more healing, go mercy." Makes me wanna scream

[@metalyca88]

mercy is even worse in this new patch with the dps passive, and her entire value pretty much depends on the teams dps. she doesnt have as much carry potential and that sucks :(

[@CerealMalt]

Just go mercy, I don't want to die

[@kennethcarow442]

@@CerealMalt and thats exactly the point. Mercy is not that good at healing. Moira, bap, ana, lifeweaver and kiri are all better at keeping people alive...

[@SwimmingBird19]

@@CerealMalt literally the point of the video, bud. Having a Mercy on doesn't mean your team magically has more skill than red team. If I had a Quarter for everytime some quickplay Cassidy main told me "Play Mercy, I'll carry if you pocket me" and we STILL LOSE, I would be able to buy out Amazon and Tesla.

[@SwimmingBird19]

@@CerealMalt seriously, having a mercy might mean YOU make it out of the team fights your losing but it wont change the team diff. It's genuinely useless to swap depending on whats actually causing the loss. If red team tank is making constructive use of voice comms and forcing all of your cooldowns while constantly taking space on your supports, you're going to lose with any of the 10 supports on the roster.

[@piggy4651]

a good example is lucio. lucios value comes from speed, boops, peeling, distraction, etc. stats dont track any of that.

[@tgs5725]

I've been reported for throwing on lucio because my heals per 10 min were like 5k

[@TR-ju5re]

​@@tgs5725I've got LW's doing 5k per 10. You're doing just fine 😂

[@bobdole3996]

​@tgs5725 low rank lucios give bad image to good lucio players. Lucio at low ranks be having high healing stats.

[@tgs5725]

@bobdole3996 I know, when I first started overwatch years ago I used to sit on heal aura and have like 20k heals per game. I was told I used to swear up and down I should be diamond but my team sucked lol.

[@jandv3539]

the same with tracer, sure i might not always be getting kills but im causing a lot of distraction and forcing big cooldowns to be used from the supports just to keep themselves alive, forcing an ana to scope out and turn around and try and fight me can already open up possibilities for my team. Communication is everything though.

[@tgs5725]

I see this ALL the time. Tanks who require both support to healbot them so the tank ends the match with 8 deaths and 26k damage while both dps have like 15 deaths and 15k damage then the tank says "dps diff, I cant do more to carry smh". Not realizing the dps were dying because they received less than prob 2k heals all game.

[@Brofessional_]

This is one of the biggest problems in the metal tanks. Especially in this current meta where dps can be so impactful if they get a little bit of healing. But they can’t be effective if the tank is on the brink of death at all times

[@tgs5725]

@Brofessional_ I think it was Samito that said he's discovered that the best way to play tank is to do nothing. He said literally just stand behind cover and occasionally pop out to shoot or use an ability then go back to hiding. He said you take no healing resources and you're impossible to kill. Obviously that's an extremely but I understand what he means. Just let the DPS carry

[@ZER0punk]

​@@Brofessional_ You are correct but I think the worst thing in the metal ranks are bad dps (this might also be a bias do to being a dps main, that flexes when I play in lower ranks). Don't get me wrong there are a lot of bad tanks and healers also but way more bad dps. If you can't aim why are you playing dps more specificity why are playing a hit scan. They can't hit squishies, they don't know target priority, they are just doing trash dmg, shooting at the tank, they have bad positioning, they don't know when to engage or when to hide, they don't know about map control. Or the 2 things that bother me most is on control maps they will just stand on point after you cap it like that was a tough one, time for cig break. And how often do you see them try to 1v5 the enemy team. They will ether be the last one standing (usually cause they died first and just got back) or the first to engage the enemy alone. They will spam dmg from a corner or something. They will bait their team and the enemy team to the location they are at then dieing after having fed enemy ults. And for some reason during the team fight they will go looking for high ground (which they know to do this for soone reason). While they should be doing that during the reset not during the team fight. Then they are the first to get toxic and act like their trash dmg and tank focus that got them their dmg stat means they are playing great. While being clueless to being the reason the team is losing. Sorry for the rant. counter argument though. If they knew and did these things then they wouldn't be stuck in the lower ranks. Is what it is I guess. I don't know what causes it but it has to be caused by the way you notice things or something. Their Ana sleep darts mercy out of the sky, your Anna misses sleep dart on a tank 3 feet infront if her. Their doom is sever admin controlling the lobby your doom keeps using his abilities right off the map. I play genji and tracer a lot. As soon as I start putting dmg on someone it's immediately being healed. My healer is healing tank to fill before they even look around to see if anyone else needs healing. I'm guessing it's how our brains are wired noticing threats on the enemy team and weak links on your own team. Is my best guess.

[@kainuipenaloza9395]

Honestly the easiest way to get out of the metal ranks as tank is full support double heals and just carry the game- although I know this is not what youre saying

[@tennweakass]

@@ZER0punkeverything you js said is so real. as a doom main i kinda rely on decent follow ups because my cool downs and primaries are usually being used to hold space and pressure since thats really how doom gets value in this game now. but instead my dps would rather blast orisa instead of simply helping me shoot the lifeweaver and ana thats keeping the horse immortal in the first place. I feel like if ur targeting priority is shit and you dont know how to punish cool down use and coordinate simple follow ups, why are you even playing dps ? and then dont even get me started on the dps that js overall have bad game sense. Like why are you fighting the enemy genji alone as a bastion while pharah rains down missiles on us. The teammates i get make me feel like i am actually stuck in ranks i don’t deserve to be in (im plat 5 tank)

[@amerhst1201]

I played Mei and was getting flamed for getting lower damage than our Soldier who was 70% of the time shooting their tank, even though I blocked 2 JQ ults(1 was with nano) and froze nano Soujorn. This was a GM5 game last season lol

[@Nostolic]

I shit you not I will have the best stats after first round we lost let’s say on KOTH, I won’t say anything and maybe switch or continue playing good focusing squishes and crits ( I play Cree). Next round, other dps or tank goes sojourn and or mauga, brain dead trash damage heroes, focus the tanks which gives them more damage, and then have the audacity to call me or another person out, even though they’re 18-12 with 25k damage, and I’m 27-6 with 20k damage. They’ll literally go to trash damage heroes and focus tank just to farm damage stats and not be flamed by team. Little do they know, they’re the reason kiri has rush every 1 and a half fights and bap solo windows the tank, killing them almost every fight cause why not, he farms heals.

[@aohdan5713]

Yeah theres no stat for mei walling off the tank and winning the teamfight for free unfortunately

[@Rohndogg1]

I've won so many games where I was outhealed or out damaged and lost just as many where our numbers all looked better. All the proof I need that stats mean very little

[@StoicScape219]

I played a bap game where I did 9.5k dmg and 5k healing. It was like a 10-11 min game. We did win by a nasty margin but by OW statboy logic I’d be throwing vs hard carrying

[@triantulas]

Stat padding in overwatch means nothing. Back in overwatch 1 "you guys suck I have gold damage" was such a meme

[@ofrenic]

​@triantulas a dev literally said stats don't matter in their competitive algorithm recently in an ml7 interview thing

[@TooRiskyHD]

Hit 32k healing yesterday on role q ranked. Do you think I won? Not a chance

[@Switch_X_Back3884]

I've had the same thing happen many times. Where my team has doubled the kills of the other team. Less deaths. But they won. Why? Bc they did something better than we did.

[@Chr0n0s38]

How much deaths matter depends on the objective too. At the start of hybrid/payload attackers spawn close to the objective so dying is less punishing. If you die but kill a support in that case it could be the right play simply because you get back faster.

[@TheXarus]

Absolutely. The map is not the territory

[@Poopkipp]

Sombra is one of the biggest victims to scoreboard fallacies. If I hack an ulting Moira or Sigma, where does that show up on the scoreboard? Sure, they'll have a bit less damage, but, that may be hard to notice. I get complaints all the time that my damage stat is too low when meanwhile I'm in the back line forcing nade and sleep dart so our tank gets to walk for free.

[@Summonick2]

Junkrat I’ve noticed as well. On a 6 game winstreak right now on the hero, and my stats are random/low every game. It’s about who you kill and plays you make. Even deaths, he’s a very suicidal hero, and you might spend 3 deaths attempting to win the fight completely but once it works only get 1-2 important kills, but that’s what you needed

[@justinoliveira3063]

@@Summonick2Well that’s just junkrat. I’d flame you for playing that hero as well because he’s just trash right now. If you’ve won 6 games in a row on him, I’m gonna assume you’re in like silver or gold.

[@kingmoosh2004]

@@justinoliveira3063 flaming randoms for picking an off meta hero isnt the flex you think it is lol, youre just being a jerk

[@flashicles]

@@justinoliveira3063 so what youre saying is... if someone wins 6 games in a row with a *trash hero* (a hero that you consider is useless) you assume the person is in gold or silver?... that sounds like it makes sense to you?

[@medisshehi9335]

@@justinoliveira3063 I would assume that I wouldn't play with you, so much toxicity

[@defenestrate7544]

I'm spreading the biggest rank up tip for metal ranks - Don't join VC, and /hidechat every match. This discussion proves how useful these tools are. Toxic/uninformed players are everywhere, and VC and chat can only be negative or neutral until you get to a higher rank where coordination MIGHT be happening (still might not be a useful tool until GM+). It's a sad reality, but you're mental will be better if you focus on yourself, you won't be distracted by ding dongs telling you that you aren't getting value cause of stats, and you can more logically think about the game you're in and how you might need to adjust your hero or playstyle.

[@whitebwoi]

yup i mute all, go tracer, get masters, then maybe unmute.

[@nma1992]

I think VC can make people want to try harder and coordinate more, regardless of how accurate the comms are themselves. Too much toxicity can ruin games, but criticism isn't always toxic or wrong. Really depends on ur mindset

[@abdouliejallow768]

If youre doing bad, you need to be told youre doing bad. Our actions affect everyone around us, not just in the game, but in the world as well. Im not advocating for people cussing each other out and spewing out slurs. But a callout, even if it is a lil tasteless is needed in roder for people to understand. Running away from criticism is not necessarily a healthy thing to do

[@wookieninja8794]

​@@abdouliejallow768yup! I'm sorry but if I have a genji going 2-0-7 with 700 DMG at halftime and we are losing I'm going to ask him to swap because it simply isn't working. If he doesn't then he should be called out because that is throwing and ruining others games. Also sometimes, not always but sometimes, a boot in the ass is what people need. I've gotten onto my team and pointed things out. They started listening and following and we've went from losing to flat out winning. Best example of this is a tank that is too passive or scared to push chokes. I'm not saying bully them but sometimes you have to tell them to nut up.

[@ItsKatsuragi]

I wish they'd let us block stats from the tab screen. Unbinding it doesn't do because you also lose access to what the team picks are and CDs.

[@TheOtherDoughnut]

Tracer gets this a lot. The amount of times I’ve heard “we don’t need a tracer rn” while I’m in the back lines with 2 healers and a DPS all chasing me around is crazy. Thank you for spelling this out for people

[@boen_mun]

I think it might be the most useful OW video I've ever seen. After watching this I told myself to start playing without looking even once at stats, and it actually improved everything so much! Instead of judging people on their stats, I had to judge them on their plays, making me simply more aware of everything. Then it's easier to punish enemy targets, and easier to focus on what your allies are doing. It's also so much better to evaluate yourself with what you actually bring to the team, and it's helping a lot to know how to improve. I felt also a lot more joyful and the mentality of enjoying the game helped me to overcome myself in difficult games! I knew already stats meant nothing but it gave me this game-changing idea. I know already it will be the working way for me. I did much more wins in my games thinking like that. Thank you so much!

[@spoopkwagen8574]

TLDR

[@boen_mun]

@@spoopkwagen8574 it's ok :)

[@carterdelaney4648]

@@spoopkwagen8574 Do you not have the attention span to read like 12 sentences

[@jblazerndrowzy]

@@spoopkwagen8574Not looking at stats to have to worry about them = actually having fun with the game now This is why you’re failing at reading class, Billy.

[@SolidNitrox]

This is probably the most important misunderstood piece of information about OW2 and it absolutely needs more people talking about it. People actually believe their elims are all kills they did themselves, even tho total elims are wildly higher than total deaths.

[@sethalmand9901]

2:40, had a DVA the other day that ended up doing EXACTLY that, and then was upset at our healers and me as soldier for doing nothing. The healers were doing great, and I was the only one on the team with any actual kills after the first round because our Dva was going in, getting like 2-300 damage and no kills, and only using DM to run away and pick up health packs, zero peeling for supports or trying to dive the enemy supports. I ended that game 13-12, because I had to trade with the enemy DPS every fight. We won because I killed their DPS almost every team fight who was hardcore carrying, while our Sombra took out the supports, but because the Dva only died like 4 times, they blamed me and the others(who all died a minimum of 10 times) for the difficulty, and then thought it was appropriate to say they could coach me and the others, because they were clearly so much better. That's the end of my rant, was pretty tilted lol.

[@TheUnseenKrab]

Me too I had a similar situation and that guy had the Gaul to type eeeeeezźzzzzz in chat after what me and my teammates went through because of him... 😑

[@scarletl9081]

so glad u mentioned weapon accuracy because my friend was so upset after seeing their weapon accuracy go down and thinking their aim is just getting worse when weapon accuracy is literally mean’t to change. it’s not gonna remain the same every game, certain circumstances will prevent u from that perfect accuracy and that’s fine, every game will be different

[@daringiconoclast6547]

"Bro you're Junkrat with the lowest damage" "One trick with a 50% win rate"

[@AIMLESS-NAMELESS]

“Bro your junkrat” :p that hero sucks

[@daringiconoclast6547]

@@AIMLESS-NAMELESS I know, none of us are in ow league, so while I'm trying my best, I'm also not trying with full optimization. He used to be a lot more playable before his burst damage nerf this season. Even so, there's value to be had that isn't junk damage padding.

[@nullnull629]

Burst damage nerf and health increase is crazy

[@jonasdowner]

junkrat is a throw

[@plsdontbanmeagainyoulibtards]

​@@AIMLESS-NAMELESSbro.. he spelt out the correct "you're" and you still somehow got it wrong... 🤦

[@kaijuu_tho]

The stats board is most useful where seeing what I'm doing wrong. Sometimes my teammates stats can be helpful in seeing how I need to adjust my own play - is Kiri only throwing healing so I need to make up for that in some way, is my Ana dying in the double digits and can I mitigate that somehow. But in the end, it's entirely contextual on what is actually happening in each game. Scoreboard has helped me realize things I'm doing wrong. But "high numbers good low numbers bad" is hard for a loooot of players to get over.

[@clothed_tigreproductions411]

I agree with you on that

[@pixelsoul]

Sombra is another character that can provide a lot of value, that often doesn't get reflected in the stats. I've been bashed by other players for having a lower amount of elims, but I was causing distraction for the other teams support, or killing the Widow over and over, or cancelling out ults.

[@Passw0rdYT]

Sombra is ultimately a rabblerouser. When she's doinf her job right, she keeps the enemy team's attention constantly split between their frontline and their backline, she cancels their abilities, and in the games where she gets the most kills, she heavily punishes uncoordinated teamplay by just picking apart their whole team 1 by 1 like a slasher movie, but that doesn't happen all that often. I also like to think there's a psychological element to sombra as well. People hate invisible lady and often get more irrationally angry dying to her than maybe anyone else on the roster. And when people get tilted, they start to play worse. The way i see it, if you're a bad sombra, they'll take their anger out on you. If you're a good sombra, they'll take their anger out on their team

[@carston855]

I one tricked widow once in OW1 and there was lots of games I would get an opening pick and win the first objective so like 3 enemies would swap and come after me. I would hide in spawn or completely out of range while a lucio, ball and tracer are searching for me while my team wins the next fight 5v2. I would get massively flamed by both teams for getting 1 or 2 elims the entire match but we still win lol. Works up to like diamond, people really can't stand dying to widow for some reason they take it personally.

[@GhostWhatcher]

lmfao yeah, i tend to play widow in QP (trying to get as good as possible before seriously using her in comp) and it's insane how far the enemy team is willing to go to chase you down. just yesterday i had a DVA, reaper, and kiriko constantly leaving the objective and coming after me. it's very flattering to be considered such a threat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@goroakechi6067]

? How about because widow is a one shot dps. And she’s dangerous? If the widow is shit i may or may not go after her. I’m if shes good i will target her more often since shes more of a threat.

[@goroakechi6067]

“They take it personally” if anything you take it personally when people targeted you as widow. I see your point except for that last sentence of yours

[@pastachief385]

@@GhostWhatcher see I wish I had more good widowmakers to play brig with, its always a delight

[@justinoliveira3063]

This could be selection bias, but it feels like the lower in the ranks you go the more likely someone is to rely on the scoreboard for performance feedback. The amount of times I’ve seen lower ranked players argue with each other is insane because they simply don’t understand how the game is played and how valuable different aspects of the game are.

[@senor135]

100% but it never goes away

[@Real_MisterSir]

Cus it's one of the few habits that directly translate from other fps games. Focus on K/D is such a normalized mentality, because it simplifies everything to where they don't have to actually think about their plays, they just look at the stat outcome and save themselves the headache of even attempting to understand if their gameplay is good or bad. Especially for low rank players that never actually put in the time and effort to go beyond what stats infer, they just create an overreliance on whatever feedback most conveniently allows them to blame external factors for their own shortcomings.

[@amerhst1201]

Happens in GM as well

[@funnyhour101]

True but so do higher level players too, all the time as well. If you have something like a dps that's 0-8 with somewhat comparable damage and the team is losing, that would be an obvious indicator of low contribution, especially if its double individual team member's deaths. Sometimes games are like that.

[@justinoliveira3063]

@@funnyhour101 Ok, but the point I’m making is unless you’re doing something really bad in the high ranks, odds are people aren’t going to call someone out for it because they know how to interpret the stats. Lower rank players just think low number bad, high number good (unless it’s deaths)

[@kitparsons6680]

As a brig main, this video just reasserted my believe in myself. Brig brings soooo much value that doesnt show on the leaderboard, and its so hard having to argue every game with dps/tank that i am bringing value by denying highground and off angles, or by keeping our the widow/ ana alive into tracer sombra.

[@ihatethisgamegaminglivestr3509]

dont argue turn chat off and climb you and your teams morale is everything but sadly most of the time you cant help teams morale so yours is the most important. Mindset is the key to winning and getting the rank you want

[@kitparsons6680]

@@ihatethisgamegaminglivestr3509 oh 100% i made an account named BrigOTP and solo q'd to masters with chats muted after being a hardstuck diamond for 3 seasons

[@ihatethisgamegaminglivestr3509]

@@kitparsons6680 yea fr the mind is the key

[@ihatethisgamegaminglivestr3509]

@@kitparsons6680 for everything you want to accomplish in life it is your mind that makes it possible

[@wandregisel6385]

I typically use stats to gauge my own performance, but even that has it's downsides. It's a hard habit to break though, I'm a habitual tabber

[@Hunter-oo3ct]

3:08 the amount of times I’ve been called bad because I have lower healing than my other support while playing ana even though we are winning is hilarious to me cause all I can think is “congrats on having one of your supports healbot you while I’m trying to put pressure on their cass or Ashe or hanzo, or throwing my nade at the start of a team fight to force abilities like suzu or bap lamp so the dps can try and get a pick easier or the tank can dive in” it’s just frustrating at this point

[@dylanbersano9488]

My favorite is how I get told that I'm not doing as well as the other dps on my team even though the soldier had a mercy pocket the entire game.

[@jeruss00]

Moral of the video. Stats cant tell the whole story, be more self aware, and watch match replays

[@agenzmain6146]

The " low deaths = playing well" is one i have heard being misused recently a lot, especially by supports players. Dying first is bad. Dying itself isn't. If your whole team died, and you didn't, that probably means u were sitting passive in the back and not taking space with your team and putting pressure. You essentially threw the fight. Not only that but you might even get staggered, possibly throwing the team fight after that too. Dying WITH your team is fine, sometimes even good.

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

the whole team dying while Reaper or Genji is flanking is their fault apparently

[@agenzmain6146]

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Saladhuh?

[@ArkbladeIX]

​@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Saladcocaine

[@toastiboi7618]

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad reaper and genji are supposed to be on their off angle by the time the fight starts or a few seconds after, otherwise your team is fighting 4v5 and you're doing nothing. So if the entire team dies while reaper or genji are still pissing about on their flank route, yes it is their fault

[@chpgmr1372]

10:40 I climbed out of low silver to diamond with just zen by not wasting trans. I cant remember what I watched that convinced me to hold on to his ult more but that alone was a drastic shift in my win rate after being stuck in silver for a many seasons the rest being building trans faster.

[@chpgmr1372]

Healing received and damage taken stats. The game reports section in the career profile should give WAY more stats.

[@goldenegg7447]

I hate how my buddies who one trick moira tell me that as soldier I'm not doing as good since they have more elims or damage. I have like 43 elims and he has 47 and I'm tearing the team down since I'm not good enough.

[@Digger-Nick]

Because your damage SHOULD be higher

[@D_U_N_E]

I personally obsess over weapon accuracy because there's quite a few times I feel like I should be winning engagements or closing kills, but miss out because I have lower accuracy.

[@vividao4123]

People won't tell you that accuracy is very much dependent on circumstances. Half of your hits are due to you being supported and the enemy making a bad decision, the other half is purely your skill.

[@lulzywizard7576]

​@vividao4123 it's hard to avoid looking at accuracy when you can easily compare it to what you see your t500 streamer doing on that same hero and realizing you're less than half as accurate. Lol

[@Digger-Nick]

Weapon accuracy and damage are linked, if you aren't hitting anyone then you aren't putting out damage. Of course it's extremely important

[@corruptedknight0]

One thing that could help this is to have a Damage and Health received for the last 10s during death cam, i.e. to differentiate if tank died to burst or died slowly and because healing didn't follow through.

[@xspeczy4564]

The indirect value is a huge point that doesn't get talked enough. Take for example Widow 1v1s on Junkertown or Circuit Royale. The mere presence of an enemy Widow is enough to prevent other Widows to take aggressive angles which in turn creates more space for the team

[@Twisty_26]

Adding the stat/scoreboard ruined peoples' perception of how utility works in overwatch

[@grr-OUCH]

There was a game where I kept dying as Zenyatta. It was a push map, and we won, but after I took out a couple of players they took it personally and hunted me down. I killed some of them, but as they were two I would inevitably lose one of the fights. One was a tank (Diva) and the other was some damage hero. On the bright side, I kept two people on the other team away from my team, so it was easier for them to win 4 against 3 (and no tank).

[@wisp6782]

I remember a similar thing happening with the on fire mechanic. I'm a ball player, and ball just would have no way to build fire without killing people. I remember getting flamed in lower elo for not being on fire, but if you look at ball mains in high Elo and compare the on fire percentage to other heroes it was always super low.

[@snaddrr5884]

Have had soooo many games where the supports are hyper focused on the tank that it was common to wait somewhere between 7-15 sec to get healed. And then the overextending tank goes "danmmm my DPS ain't doing nothing"

[@CyberDemon1]

This video is so educational for Overwatch players. Extremely accurate and needed to be heard and understood by all players

[@terryjones3072]

There have been a lot of games that we steamroll the other team where I feel like I did “nothing” but when I think about it you can apply a ton of pressure that doesn’t reflect on the scoreboard. For instance, playing Moira and sucking off the backline will allow your team to push forward and kill the tank and dps (because their supports are occupied and distracted). So even if you don’t end up killing the supports yourself or even if your team doesn’t kill the supports, you still win the fight and you had a large contribution, but you likely won’t have any elims on the scoreboard for it.

[@geese-xd1ep]

Sucking off the backline 😅

[@moose5071]

i wish u the best in sucking off their backline it doesn't show on the scoreboard but ur doing the lord's work

[@eviljoshy3402]

One game I was playing Sombra and the other dps was Soldier. Halfway through Soldier said "Sombra, more dmg plz". I checked the stats and he had another 4k dmg than me but he was only ahead by 3 kills. Considering Im harassing the back-line and all my kills are entirely solo. I was practically the only reason the enemy supports were dying. I argued that I was doing more with less. He's staying with the group, lighting up everything. So yeah he would have more dmg and half of his kills could be teamwork. While mine are almost completely me.

[@overratedfool6900]

I don't think it's even worth acknowledging these people. They are clueless and they won't listen to reason anyway. Some context: I'm very new to OW2. I'm better than my very low rank (bronze 3/4 sup). I know this because I usually check my win/loss when I'm not playing with my mates (who started at the same time as me). My first ever SQ ranked games were 12 and 3. I then stopped tracking for a bit. My latest SQ ranked games are 11 and 4. There were some games in-between not tracked, but I won most. One of my 3 mates who I play with has played only 2 SQ games (the rest all with me) and he is bronze 1 and has a win % of 22. Basically, my point is that I win 70-80% of my games in SQ and 20-30% with mates and I've not made that up, so I can confidently say I am better than bronze 3. Even though I win ~75% of my SQ games as Bap, in about half (no exaggeration) of those losses somebody on my team blames me directly for it. Often this even happens after a bad first round in games we go on to win. "bap swap to mercy" "bap heal" "supp diff" "bap throwing no heals" I will sometimes have higher dmg, elims and lower deaths than the person saying this. I'm pretty sure I've literally always had better on one of those stats. The funniest one I've had was a game that was bronze3-gold4 (so likely the whole lobby is ranked above me) and at least 3 of my team were obviously in a party. This was a 3-3 escort match that we narrowly lost. 3 of my team mates are berating me (I never replied). They're telling me to swap to mercy. Saying I'm throwing. I have 6k heals (when they started their complaints, so mid game) when our other sup has 9k (with very very low dmg) and I have more damage than one of the dps and more elims than both. My team get so frustrated with me they start complaining to the other team about me. Two guys on the other team defend me with comments like "what are you talking about? he's doing your job better than you". I think that was the funniest example. The point is, people like this will always find somebody on their team with a bad stat and use that to blame them. With me it's always healing, because my healing is usually a little low. If you're playing sombra it'll likely be damage. You're honestly better off not replying to them.

[@501Labsmusic]

This video should be shown to everyone below Diamond rank. People think they're playing call of duty and think they're good because they have good numbers... but their team still lost because they didnt fundamentally add a lot of quality value

[@vinnt_tnniv]

Stats show what the game has processed, not what you have done Widowmaker might have no damage or no elims on the board, because she's creating pressure Many times as a 34/5 genji, I defended my 12/5 widow from being roasted or being told to switch. She didn't get many elims because she was such a threat that I could go in a rampage They couldn't take space because of the widow. The fear of the one shot allowed me to dive in and out, because my widow was creating such a safezone

[@zartoru_]

Lmao this video just changed how I was seeing stats, this is very interesting. As a flank player I've always felt kinda bad when realising my damage numbers were low, but flankers aren't supposed to deal huge amount of damage, they're supposed to kinda sneak attack exposed or poorly positionned targets and secure a kill quickly enough so said target doesn't get healed. If you're not fast enough and your target gets healed, you'll get more damage, but you just failed doing what you were supposed to. And even if you managed to kill your target despite them being healed, you just gave ultimate charge to both your target and their support

[@FennKitFox]

9:52 I understand certain characters have separate values, but at the end of the day if the tank is dying in 2 seconds because we have a lucio and a zen, just because those characters give value doesn't mean it's helping us win the game. at some point people need to accept that swapping picks is a better choice instead of berating your team for "not making use of your benefits" or even worse, insisting the TANK swaps to make better use of your abilities, which is just the exact same thing. Characters have their benefits, don't berate your team because you think your team isn't using them when at the end of the day you're just not providing enough SURVIVABILITY to the team.

[@Pekara121]

I feel like they should add a stat that tells you how much time the objective has been pushed/contested in the tab.

[@senor135]

I want less stats. no, actually i want no stats

[@Watermelon_Man]

@@senor135 Well, you have that option considering that the scoreboard has to be manually opened. Just don’t open it.

[@knyt0]

it used to

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@Watermelon_Man Obviously the person means that "no stats" should apply to everyone, not just themselves. The whole concept of stats on display is a braindead thing for this type of game where value can be had in about 100 different ways that stats dont tell nor teach. In a game like CS, sure. It's straight forward, the primary value indicator is elims, and there are far fewer alternate variables to consider. But in Overwatch it's the exact opposite. It mostly just builds bad habits due to misinterpretation of the stats on display.

[@senor135]

@@Watermelon_Man yea, true. and i dont, except to check ult charge. but i cant stop others from opening it and comparing stats

[@scarletl9081]

im so glad you made this video because ive been thinking and saying this for so long

[@Pango1028]

The GOAT of Overwatch 2 content. I feel like I am wasting my time watching other content creators when the best takes are always here. Hope you continue and great to see you going to summits and making appearances on Group Up.

[@CHRISPARVISMAGNAGAMING]

I haven't watched the video yet but I lost 2 ranked matches yesterday in games where we out-fragged, out-damaged and out-healed the other team and I was honestly so confused as to how the enemy team pulled off the win.

[@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid]

if my lucio isnt actively amp speeding me down the enemies throat they are playing lucio wrong, thats why i unironically get upset when i see them constantly yellow like a sad frog :(

[@TeaHauss]

There is no quantifiable stat for teamwork, but i'm sure if people learned how their stats contribute they'd be less toxic.

[@senor135]

i think the real answer is stats don't contribute

[@Digger-Nick]

Most people are "toxic" as a coping mechanism for their own lacking gameplay. Why take accountability for missing all your shots when you can just blame someone else?

[@GeorgeElEmery]

I love this! I'm an aggressive Sombra that has been shooting up my ranks the past 3 seasons, but my stats have been up and down. Of course, sometimes I can tell I'm just playing poorly, but I AM consistently winning. This helps explain a lot!

[@vividao4123]

I think the two major criterias to judge the value of your actions is through conversion and efficiency with conversion meaning that you turn your enemy's advantage or strength into a disadvantage. It's most obviously seen in how your positioning can turn an enemy's position against them and vice versa. Consistent positive conversion (actions that consistently turn the tides in your favor) and high efficiency are only achievable with good teamwork so the real game is trying to figure out what actions allow your team to win with the lowest numbers on the board.

[@TomMorello725]

Damage and healing matter... in the enemy team because you can track their ults but in general stats are just to make players feel they are good. That is the reason why people are obsessed with the numbers. I´d say the most important stat is... Winrate. 30% or 70% is telling you, screaming to you that *something* is happening in your gameplay systematically hehe. 50% means you are not in Elo hell, you are in the right rank. I know it is weird but maybe an experimental stat could be: the average distance for damage. It could help a little bit to understand how you manage your range (with a quantitative approach). Maybe you are playing too close or too far. Another stat I need so badly is the win rate per map and game mode. For hybrid and escort: "global score" per "role": attackers or defenders (Am I very good at attacking or defending?)

[@Breggo1]

Stats are incredibly useful to see how teammates are adjusting against swaps and all that. But looking at stats once or twice throughout the game means nothing and can be incredibly hurtful. If a teammate isnt performing well over a couple of fights and we arent doing amazing as a team, that might convince me that I really need to swap in order to make up for what we are lacking. Of course the average player will just take that same info and blame their teammate and call for the teammate to swap.

[@wookieninja8794]

Spilo: You don't need high healing in bronze.... there's value in discord orb, etc. Yes! I flex all roles with tank being my best. I love playing Ana as support and I hardly ever get high healing but I always make up for it in other areas. Proper nano's, nades, sleeps, etc. had one game on Nepal where I ran from spawn and my tank was dying holding point while our Moira was off dpsing. I turned a corner and instantly nano'd him, naded him, and slept the enemy tank pressuring him. Then pumped him full of vitamins. The result? He didn't die and we went on to win point and the game. It was a pivotal moment. I always say it's not about how much healing you have but rather getting the right heals in at the right time. Moira, Lucio, etc can have massive heals over the game but if it's not there at the right time it won't mean anything.

[@demigurlxd5781]

As a sombra player I can honestly say 50% of my wining games my damage is like 2500 but 12-21 elims. My losing games I end up having more damage cause means they are not dying.

[@Praxium]

Yep its why TF2 hasnt shown K/D/A for 17 years because in a hero shooter it means nothing

[@devdog7409]

Exactly! This was the same problem with medals. People just use them to cope and flame. I was happy when they got rid of medals just to be disappointed to find they replaced it with the stat board.

[@chekitatheanimatedskeptic6314]

11:14 though usually low deaths for support, if you are not simply hiding is considered a good thing, no? Normally when I see that the team fight is lost I need to be spamming retreat for that single tank or dps that has no peripheral vision and keeps fighting 1v5 as if nothing happened. When I see there is simply no hope of winning I already planned my retreat and changed angles, meanwhile my teamates, most of the time keep pushing and overextending (specially when playing with friends).

[@lilGyros]

every ow player needs to watch this video ong

[@benlink202forever]

“More healing” is a term used when a dps or tank doesn’t know how to peel or use cover to mitigate their overuse of abilities just to save themselves.

[@joseywhales5534]

I can remember a few instances where me and my buddy duo-ed on dps (mid plat) and got flamed by our tank because we were “throwing”. Meanwhile our tank is flying into the back line to chase the enemy Kiriko or Mercy with both of our supports rushing right behind them pumping everything they’ve got into them while we’re left to 2 v 3-4 their tank, dps, and possibly a support.

[@shadow_ow2]

I'm a Reaper main and have higher than average deaths per 10 on Reaper (Think I'm currently on around 8 per 10) but I also hard carry nearly every game I'm on Reaper because I make every death count. I Was stuck in Gold and had a game when matchmaking was broken in early Overwatch 2 in which there was one GM player and one Master player on my team that were in a duo together and they asked me my rank middle of the match; they were shocked when I said I was Gold 3, and said that by the way I play (they mentioned various aspects of my play), they just assumed I was a Master or GM player like them. This encouraged me to do a total mindset shift, start trusting in my own ability way more, and within roughly two weeks I had hit Master for the first time. I managed to get to Master 3, which is my highest so far, but sadly I suffer pretty badly from anxiety disorder which can often affect my gameplay, and I had to take a break around hitting Master 3 as the anxiety was making my games more difficult than they should be (I get light headedness and struggle to breathe, heart palpitations, all that kinda stuff). Yesterday I was queued for a match with a 5 stack I'd found in the Overwatch 2 LFG, and while we were doing deathmatch while waiting for a game, some guy tried to insult my skill by saying "I hate Reaper players, he's such a low skill hero." He said this because I killed him as Reaper with ease; he was on Widow (which is supposed to be a hard counter to Reaper, right??). While I can obviously accept that Reaper is not as mechanically intensive as certain heroes, I still believe he does have a bigger degree of mechanical intensity than most people recognize and give him credit for, because no matter what anyone thinks, you cannot play Reaper and get value unless you have decent aim skills at a minimum. whilst also requiring waaaay more gamesense and positioning skill than a lot of other heroes. You also need to be great at mindgames to play Reaper, and know how to abuse the decisions that the enemy team will make. Anyway, I asked this guy his rank after he wasn't listening to a word I said, and he said that he'd played OW for 6 years and was a professional player, and used that as his ammo to try and talk down shit to me, calling me "washed" and saying I was "talking out of my ass," all whilst refusing to simply prove to me that he was a pro player, because apparently there was no point. I have a montage of my Reaper gameplay on my channel, if anyone would like to see how I play.

[@shepinel]

Best example on how healing revived would be useful is with hog since his healing done is essentially proportional to that. Helpful for determining when taking to much damage

[@Watermelon_Man]

I think the best example of this phenomenon is that there are games where I play support and the enemy team focuses me so hard that they forget to stop my team from completing the objective.

[@RenbroNL]

To me this is one of the most important things I would like people to understand. I find it can feed into bad play. The amount of times I see a DPS just farming some meaningless damage and then continues to die needlessly because of it. Or support overhealing (and not doing something that is really needed at that moment) since they are only thinking about having top healing. And the worst part is that they think they played well and not improve.

[@LilFish2208]

Im high silver/low gold and as a mercy main I was getting worried that me and the other support getting even numbers (had a round where both me and our ana had 22k heals) meant I wasn't doing enough, BUT that ana healing allowed me to get more damage boosted. This video definitely made me feel better about my support gameplay lol

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Moira main from OW1, it was common to end up with 5 gold medals. It's really hard to learn her character because the game doesn't really give feedback on how effective every point of healing and damage actually is, even if you're doing a lot of both.

[@Zaraki_Uchiha]

@Spilo Please convince the developers to change the scoreboard to ONLY SHOW PERSONAL STATS AND TEAM/ENEMY COMPOSITION (during the match). (Not your team-mate's or enemy's stats, only the hero they are playing) This should reduce toxicity and increase personal reflection/self-accountability! 💯

[@kasm7870]

The worst one is Assists. Moira gets assists if anybody she is healing gets a kill. No other support does that except Moira for some reason (except Illari with her secondary fire only)

[@Zilva199]

actually thats how assist work😂 all supports did that

[@jimrouge3437]

Yeah that's all supports. For it to be an assist you just can do any direct damage yourself

[@kasm7870]

@@jimrouge3437 It's absolutely not all supports (if you mean getting assists via healing). I know for a certainty that Kiriko and Ana do not get it from healing. Ana must Sleep or Nade the victim, or Nano Boost somebody who got an Elim. Kiriko gets them from kills within a time from Suzu hit and any Elim earned from a player who dealt damage within Kitsune Rush They both have voice lines for assists (Kiriko says "The Kitsune gains new champions" and Ana says "You're welcome")

[@ChezMclegend]

You also get killing blows if you do a lil damage to any enemy before they die

[@Watermelon_Man]

@@kasm7870 The enemy has to die as you are actively healing, and you will get the assist with any support. I play Brig a bit, and I get tons of assists from my repair packs and inspire.

[@matthewbrears2129]

I think that a big issue is that people don't realise that you have to win a team fight, not just kill the most people. How many times have I seen a player just constantly run into the enemy team while we're respawning. That means that we can't win that team fight, so we have to wait another 30 seconds (although realistically, everyone just goes in 3v5 or 2v5 anyway)

[@xXxOrdoxXx]

My thoughts on stats in every team based game ever. Clearly, concisely, reasonably stated. Thank you.

[@braxbro6674]

i like how the ‘braxbro is typing’ is visible throughout the video every now and then as foreshadowing.

[@ryanp652]

braxbro is approaching...

[@Eridu]

Why do I hear boss music?

[@karamei]

@@ryanp652off topic but I love your pfp, slimes are the best

[@VayreenaVulpera]

I never really opened the TAB screen when playing back when... ever only to see who is in which team and who is dead...

[@beastlyword0690]

Haven’t watched the vod yet but at some point I wanna hear you say “Elims are NOT KILLS” it literally drives me insane that ppl say that. Sooooo many ppl get it wrong it’s exhausting.

[@MaybeT0XIC]

weapon accuracy is dead for me because i always shoot on ground or shooting randomly when i just respawned or when fights are done hahaha

[@VexylObby]

This might be the single topic that has the most impact on understanding the game. The raw psychological impact the numbers have on the players when they hit TAB…

[@akaiYaMa9]

The thing i hated so much in ow1 is you could have gold medals for everything but because your team had no idea who had what medals, it was a coin toss on who was going to take the blame for a bad round. Now with the scoreboard you get atleast 1 guy in every game that does nothing but sit on tab and study the scoreboard. Just imagine if all those people afking mid game to do algebra on the scoreboard and typing out a hate thread just played the game instead. Ultimately, stats dont tell the whole story but adding and removing the scoreboard wont change the fact that people will ALWAYS look to find a reason to pass the blame onto someone else. Denial is a core pillar of human nature.

[@Dred-Rivals]

5:30 this happens all the time with me on genji lol. I go in, the entire enemy team peels, I die, but my team pushes up and wins the yea fight. I’ve had games where this happens 5 times in a row, and I have like the most deaths in the game and few kills but it wins it for us so I keep “feeding”

[@metalyca88]

same on tracer, i just played a game where i stalled 2nd point kings row last second and it was enough time for my team to get back and win the fight, winning the game. scoreboard doesnt show that but the value of that is immense

[@Dred-Rivals]

@@metalyca88definitely

[@solidforge2016]

I just played a game yesterday as Kiriko where I went and off angled spamming kunai, forced cooldowns, and distracted, and immediately get flamed because my healing is less than Lucio's who hasn't gotten off heal aura, is standing still behind the tank, and hasn't gotten more than 3 meters off the ground. I wish I could share this video with my ranked teammates.

[@Ron742_]

"Garbage damge" is an example of why elims aren't always the best stat to judge a player's performance. I think Paladins isn't as misleading by breaking it down by K/D/A, instead of an all in one elims.

[@Digger-Nick]

Why? Kills are irrelevant, that's why Elims exist. Wow you did 1 damage to kill the target when your teammate did the other 499. You're so good bro!

[@Ron742_]

@@Digger-Nick Exactly why stats can be misleading. It's so easy to do just a little damage with a hero like Moira and vulture a kill when someone else did most of the damage.

[@Wutwut1n1]

There’s an add on in wow called details that gives all kinds of info about stats, overwatch needs that haha

[@wolfhound146]

For me it's always funny when people say you are useless as Rein when they fail to recognize all the time you spent giving them a safe angle to shoot from. Being a moving wall for them to advance and fail to see that Rein while can be good at being aggressive though can be equally useful in just being a staging point to attack.

[@pauljmorton]

One of the most frequent question is, "Do stats affect my rank?" and of course the game has to be such that the answer is no. You could get lots of big numbers in your stats and still lose the match - if your rank goes up because of the stats, what does that mean for the game? It means that the real objective is the stats. Pushing the payload further is no longer the objective. Whatever it is that affects your rank, _that_ is the objective of the game. If you want the objective of the game to be to push the payload further than the opponent, then by necessity you must agree that stats cannot affect your rank.

[@tresvecesno7071]

What would be helpful is show the individual stats of every hero for everyone. But that's going to be a mess on the UI. Maybe putting the mouse on hover every hero can be displayed. That's will be really helpful

[@bestsellingbeatdown9162]

This so much. I'm so sick of being flamed over average healing or below average damage output despite my kill participation and deaths being far better than the other supports

[@solmas2111]

I wish we could get a comprehensive after stat. Like how much you healed each player on what hero or damaged. Or how much beam downtime there is. (Mercy, we have beam dmgbst vs healing but it doesnt show how much its disconnected) etc. Those are far more useful. ETA: I wish replays could be exported/saved and also it added timestamps. (From deaths/ etc.) To make it easier to find. Yes, healing recieved, or resources recieved and given could be so useful! So you can determine how well you did based on how much resource you were given. If it was better, worse, expected.

[@TS-uu4hp]

Just tried explaining this to my torbjourn who had 7 kills to my 6 kills while I was playing Ashe into triple flyers… while he was shooting shields, giving the opponents supports ult charge, and letting the opposing mercy for free. He switched to soldier with 30 seconds left… Simultaneously I had two 60+ kill games yesterday and I know damn well every game I can pop off like that it’s because my tank and supports are enabling me

[@MrDeykar]

I use the scoreboard mainly to look at enemy stats more so than to look at mine or my teammates. If were losing teamfights, i look for enemy heroes who are the potential carry and then i try to chnage my gameplan to counter what they are doing.

[@bwhtblk]

Im an amateur, but i think a lot of the issue is timing. A lot of times when i play charachters like winston or sombra i can create a lot of space for the team, but then I realize i blew my load way to early and im like look at all this space i created going wheres my team meanwhile my team is still on their way over. But the few times my timing is right and my team doesn’t push is maddening.

[@icarusshoda]

i like this format and editing

[@iwhoplays7904]

As a Sombra main since her release, you guys play Overwatch, I play psychological warfare 😂

[@destructo3457]

It's interesting knowing how the game properly works can make you have a higher self-esteem, someone that's on low ranks might get bashed on by his teammates for not healing or doing enough damage, maybe they were actually the best player in the team but they don't realize it and believe their teammates and get sad over it.

[@williehawkinsii4845]

Speaking about self-healing in one game I had a support player using Moira was so little healing that I managed to get more healing then that player using Sombra

[@gracieulmer4936]

I use elims to gauge if im keeping up with my team or not. Ive had more elims and less damage than our other dos and won before. tbh if you can score an elim thats more valuable than just pumping some damage that gets healed away. yeah your holding them back but in my experience most game modes and teammates dont give you the ability to play patiently until your opponents team misses an important cooldown. Contrary to that, you shouldn’t push only when you get a teamkill, the game is very dynamic

[@Waseemmmm]

OMG A VIDEO On this topic finally someone did it

[@rubinprince100]

I’ve started realising this after playing tracer a lot

[@DarkMarkGaming94]

10:00 I lost a game on Rialto because my team essentially threw a hissy fit because they wanted Mercy for "better healing and res". I'm almost convinced if I would of stayed Zen and farmed their tank with discord we would of won.

[@ashtyn9498]

Who wants mercy over zen right now 😂😂 defo should've stayed zen

[@TheMortalKombatent]

if your teams tells you they need mercy for the res they are genuinely brain dead. they need to learn how to use cover and group up, not get a get out of jail free.

[@DarkMarkGaming94]

@@TheMortalKombatent I know, I was borderline having an aneurysm listening to 3 teammates complaining about not having res. Get good scrubs.

[@TheMortalKombatent]

@@DarkMarkGaming94 that would have been valid in ow1 but res got gutted

[@mrquackler1100]

Platinum support here in one push match I played Lúcio to the end my support teammate left or disconnected never returned me and the team did not give up struggling in some fights yet we still prevailed and got the victory with one support down and me as Lúcio that did not swapped out for a different support I've never been so proud of my team

[@GabrielKalinoski-rg5qz]

"GG dps diff": The dps Sombra: - 20 kills - 8k dmg - 2 deaths - hacked 50 - stoped 5 ults Widow: - 41 kills - 10k dmg - 5 deaths The guy who said it: Doomfist: - 30 kills - 18k dmg - 10 deaths - always ults on the middle of the enemy team

[@itzghostbotduh2082]

Im still learning that the scoreboard means basically nothing and its hard to not instantly go to that to see how good or bad im going (i used to be gold 2 seasons ago hit diamond this season and last season)

[@ItsKatsuragi]

I wish they'd let us block stats from the tab screen. Unbinding it doesn't do because you also lose access to what the team picks are and CDs.

[@thedofflin]

My proudest matches were when I win despite getting completely hard countered on Winston and my stats looking absolutely trash compared to the enemy tank. My DPS call me useless but really I baited out all the pressure of the enemy team and created a gigantic amount of space for you.