YouTube Streaming Isn't for VTubers...

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Like and subscribe for more content! It really helps a lot. This channel's purpose is to archive important moments, history, and cultures in the VTubing industry. These include influential figures, memes, milestones, decisions, and trends. Basically, I'm a historian but for VTubers. If you think I missed something, drop a comment!
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#hololive #nijisanji #vshojo

[@Avenaur]

As long as twitch keeps doing mid stream ad blocks of 4-9 ads (jfc) i won't engage much. KZbin has plentry of issues but at least you can easily watch a stream uninterrupted plus the vods remain available forever (in most cases)

[@MikeHoney-qy6nl]

You have to factor in that Twitch staff hates vtubers

[@cpo9504]

... you know MrBytes is a vtuber and twitch staff? Multiple ambassadors are vtuber (there a joke i know) All platforms hate vtubers. Mousie was taking on stream that she has to delete her vod channel form 3 simultaneous copyright strikes

[@idanchen4934]

Eyup

[@idanchen4934]

Eyup

[@Artista_Frustrado]

Mousey got her VOD channel terminated & could only recover it by giving her private information, Clipper channels get terminmasted left & right, faker reporting is so easy a guy made it his whole life to fake report Taiga... how is that KZbin loving Vtubers?

[@Matty_s4]

Human girl bikini ok, virtual anime girl bad…. Explain

[@ZeroXSEED]

>leaving KZbin for something objectively worse than KZbin Sure it is for the streamer, definitely for the chat, definitely *not* for the general Audience.

[@prohanta9360]

Definitely not about pushing 2 mins unskipable ada for more money and "free" money from prime. Definitely for viewers

[@NogardCodesmith]

I have lost several of my favorite vtubers to twitch. I am not capable of having twitch on in the background all day, whereas I can do so with youtube. Twitch is also an awful user experience, so even if I was able to use it, I probably wouldn't.

[@BlaZay]

Yeah... I'd have loved to keep tabs on Matara and Michi, but now that they only stream on Twitch, I just get by with clips. I don't even dislike Twitch that much, it's just that everything I do is on YT, and it's just too inconvenient for me to go over there just for them.

[@ZeroXSEED]

This is more or less me with all ex-nijis there I only watch VODs Only Quinn still stream on yt sometimes

[@gokbay3057]

Honestly yeah, a big part of me not watching Twitch is not even the adds or experience but the fact that I can't be bothered with getting into another platform. I am already in KZbin so watching other stuff in KZbin is way easier.

[@SomostEwergarten]

everytime i open twitch i get 3 ads of 20 minutes so i instantly close twitch and dont watch anyone

[@Flamne]

The twitch that is known to be scummy even against real humans? The twitch the ludwig choose to leave? Yeah, No way

[@limitedbom2206]

“The Ludwig chose to leave” buddy it’s 100% because they gave him a big contract. If they offered nothing but a platform he’d still be on twitch

[@ramelband]

You gotta do what it takes to succeed man, platform agnostic is the way to go. Stream everywhere until you can get that audience you want.

[@hartlettal8104]

someone doesn't know, lol hes coming back to twitch soon. look at his video, he talk about why he 'will' to return despite it being shit

[@SocietyTomorrow]

Ultimately, unless someone throws "F*ck you money" the only right choice is to use any and all platforms available, in whatever way makes sense to you. Hell, even though it is VERY NOT there, even Kick is putting work in to not look like a cyber slum. KZbin is just so mega corpo that it is being actively hostile to its creators. Use it, but I wouldn't make it the primary.

[@Flamne]

Would you look at it, A twitch vtuber drama this past few days

[@BrutalAthas]

Bro for me if someone stops streaming on youtube they die in abyss of my mind and i cant go on twitch bc i never going there. Secondly its just bad platform.

[@gokbay3057]

Honestly yeah, a big part of me not watching Twitch is not even the adds or experience but the fact that I can't be bothered with getting into another platform. I am already in KZbin so watching other stuff in KZbin is way easier.

[@KyogresHideout_Vegito2121]

Purely in terms of monetization Twitch is better sure but Twitch also has quite the history of banning VTubers just because whereas KZbin while they also do that it's not quite so targetted at VTubers specifically. Also alternate donation sites like Streamlabs certainly help with the monetary viability of KZbin. (I'm also biased because I barely use Twitch 😅) Edit: Just watched further and saw you addressed the rule enforcement differences 👍

[@kurb0]

I remember how this KZbinr called Pyrocynical was denied multiple times to become a Twitch partner despite easily reaching the requirements, but when he contacted the Twitch team over in Europe he was accepted even commenting how he should've been accepted a long time ago, but when the American team found out he was banned for doing that. If someone out in Twitch don't like you, you will not succeed on their platform.

[@s_factor_sam]

How is Twitch better for indies? If you aren't live, you practically don't exist on Twitch. No discoverability. Meanwhile, I've gotten more views (live AND vods) on KZbin. It actually pushes small channels to viewers when you're in their algorithm bubbles, while on Twitch small channels are rarely recommended over bigger channels. Small channels are always buried at the bottom off every well-populated game/category page by default. Only the rare viewer who manually changes their sorting order have the slightest chance of finding us, and that's only if they see you among the hundreds of other 0-2 view channels. For a non-standard, strictly SFW, male vtuber like me, (with no connections to any large streamers and only enough time to stream once or twice per week) Twitch is literally IMPOSSIBLE to grow on. In my 3 years as a vtuber, I've streamed on Twitch for half of it and then moved my streaming to YT, where I was already uploading videos. My streams have had the same average concurrent viewership on both, but my vods get exponentially more views on YT than they ever did on Twitch. Its not even close, despite still not being fast growth, 'cuz male vtuber. Heck, even if a small channel streams on Twitch 5 or more times per week, there's barely any growth potential. Only the top 20% on the platform get an average of 6 or more average CCV. That alone shows how improbable it is that anyone could stream even full-time hours and still not need to work a full-time job to pay the bills. Only the luckiest or most privileged (in having the right connections) get to grow on Twitch. Meanwhile on YT you could realistically do a mix of streaming and videos part-time, while having a normal job to keep from starving, and have a better chance at growth. Especially since vod views actually support your channel, even earning ad revenue when monetized. On Twitch, vod views still have ads but only earn the company money because the streamer gets no rev share. Literally no reason to not have Twitch vods locked behind sub and export them to KZbin. Twitch just does nothing to help people like me, and I have a hard time even justifying multistreaming to it when I already stream on KZbin because of Twitch's stupid "no combining chats via relay functions nor showing non-Twitch chats on-screen" rule. If I could find a way to one-way relay Twitch chat to KZbin, so that both are combined into the superior vod via YT's 'Live Chat Replay' feature, then I could remove the on-screen chat and add Twitch to multistream.

[@djinn666]

KZbin's algorithm is simply better. As long as the viewers like the content, the algorithm doesn't care. It'll promote you just like it would for a bigger channel. I've seen a number of channels that had 5k subs with a single well-made video that went viral and it basically made their KZbin career. And it's not simply luck. That video is something I wanted to watch and I get disappointed because when I click on their channel, it's one of maybe 3 videos they've ever made. The equivalent on Twitch is a bigger streamer raiding you. But that depends on the streamer liking you, which could be very different from viewers liking your content.

[@dlazyace9116]

Vtubers have more discoverablility on KZbin because one video of watching vtuber and ur whole page is filled with vtubers even ads of them.

[@dosven3495]

i dont like that videos get deleted in twitch

[@zg3342]

Kind of a bad take. If you have an audience for your YT channel/streams and are consistent so that audience knows to find you on YT, YT very much is for vtubers. The biggest vtubers in the world stream on YT pretty exclusively. No ones going to find you at the bottom of twitch just like no ones going to find you with a 0 sub YT channel without you doing some marketing.

[@arturo0727]

Personally I'm not a big fan of twitch. The app is horrible is buggy , ads are so long, it lags all the time. The only way to watch it properly on your phone is opening a web browser. As long as Hololive stays on YT, I'm not planning to move my content consumption to Twitch. I'll just stay with clips bc that's what every twitch creator does now. 🤷

[@fiendish9474]

Watching on twitch in my experience has been cancerous especially on mobile

[@lyconxero457]

I personally don't know how people have the free time to actually watch streams. Most of the time they don't happen when I have the downtime to check them out live so KZbin streams automatically win out because I can very easily watch them later. Also, the video quality and video player on KZbin is superior so it's just a more pleasant watching experience. I feel like an old person because people always say that Twitch has the superior streaming experience but I just don't see it. The audio/video quality is worse and the ads are absolutely HORRENDOUS. I remember some years back when Twitch ads weren't all that bad and so I could forgive the poorer audio/video quality with my main issue with Twitch being the VOD experience. However at some point, just like with movie theaters and their ever increasing trailers before a film, Twitch started adding more and more ads to the point that now i'll click on a stream to check it out and get instantly hit with 1/12 ads that you can't skip and I just click away. The system is so obtrusive that it almost DEMANDS that you sub to channels that you like while simultaneously turning you away from channels that you don't know anything about.

[@sumrix]

You were looking at the problem from the streamer’s perspective. But what about the viewer - where is it more convenient and better for them?

[@DrakyrusGunther]

Bad takes video. Everyone agrees twitch is terrible for starting from zero because it's centered around the top numbers.

[@basedcommentor]

Discovery on Twitch is worse though

[@MikeHoney-qy6nl]

This. I’m not sure how in the world he got to the conclusion twitch is better for growing a following

[@Artista_Frustrado]

kinda, Discoverability on Twitch is more reliant on Networking than just the algorith

[@MARfilms]

I hate Twitch, simple as.

[@livingreverie5951]

So this is aging worse given the situation with fallenshadow

[@Malkiah25]

Personally I prefer KZbin no matter what for a few reasons: 1. support for the AV1 codec. 2.Easier to have everything together and not have to site hop as you should be making more evergreen content rather than just streams and vods/clips in my opinion. You could make your own highlights videos with good editing on a good stream where you have a sort of story around what happens. 3.flexibility on membership in terms of cost and smaller share going to KZbin over Twitch that was mentioned in the video. While both can be terrible for their own reasons as platforms as discussed in the video KZbin is to me the lesser of two evils. And yes Twitch has more features, most of which are for more monetization and some of their more recent features go against the VTuber community (eviltoaster's knock feature for example.) I almost see both KZbin and Twitch like Debian and Arch which are Linux Distros. One is known for it's stability but will be behind in terms of features and updates, whilst the other is more cutting edge but has a fair few faults and issues that can put people off.

[@Rias-Gremory-a-gamer]

I dislike twitich very much i get lost of popups and most times i get several adds in a row no matter how may times i refresh the page it piss me off so much.

[@vincenttorrijos9680]

The safest medium many have reached is to stream, often cross-stream on both KZbin and Twitch, but maintain a vod channel on KZbin, so you still get to utilize KZbin's archive function with twitch's engagement. Only problem with that is that you're less likely to pull in a KZbin crowd not just by having attention split, but also by simple virtue of being on twitch

[@Winters004]

Twitch is great if you are primarily trying to net an NA audience, but KZbin streaming absolutely bodies Twitch in terms of global reach, especially in Asia where Twitch either isn't popular or is straight up unavailable.

[@999porte]

this video aged horrible, lmao

[@Jokoko2828]

Yeah, but I don't use twitch, so any vtuber that's just on twitch doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

[@arturo0727]

Yea that true for me too. I used to be a big fan of Mika Milatika but now a Michi i dont watch her as anymore. I only her clips now. I'm just not a big fan of twitch the ads are so intrusive 3-4 min ads. And the app is so buggy, the only way to watch twitch on my phone is to open a browser and go directly to twitch website. 😒

[@espurrseyes42]

Doesn't Twitch overly punish Vtubers for the slightest thing while making sure to do absolutely nothing when an eGirl shows her tatas until she herself says to punish her to get the heat off her?

[@NuclearWintr]

Dude is shilling for Twitch so hard.

[@BeruleAdierant]

With the Shondo situation this video age so bad, dude.

[@jimmy_20xx]

Aaand my comment was deleted. Very well criticized and thought out talk, Nousagi. Big ups to you, my guy

[@bossofthisgym6842]

If KZbin wasn't good enough for Hololive they would just make their own platform before thinking about going to Twitch. I guarantee Twitch would ban them like crazy. Twitch is better for smaller indies though.

[@conspiracyspider]

I mean twitch has only banned Nerissa and that's it

[@HyattHyatt3179]

Honestly even for video making youtube is questionable (if you're small or just starting out) as it's incredibly inconsistent with recommending your videos, shorts, and/or streams to new people. So growing on twitch can be much easier in the beginning, but no so much in the long term.

[@prohanta9360]

@@HyattHyatt3179 KZbin won't recommend your videos if your video doesn't align to anyone interest. If you just upload for the sake of upload, it will be hard

[@HyattHyatt3179]

@@prohanta9360 I know that, but the algorithm will also stop cycling your content if you take too long. I've had people I'm subscribed to not show up in my recommendations because they're either not big enough or because they haven't uploaded in a while. But the big creators show up all the time. So it does have to do with size and not just how much or what it is you upload. There's also the problem where people won't be interested in small new creators because they don't even know they exist so there can be no interest shown, but then those videos won't get recommended because no-one has watched them. It's a known problem with growing on YT. It makes sense, and I wouldn't want random small creators in my recommended all the time, but never the less it's an issue if you're trying to grow.

[@prohanta9360]

@@HyattHyatt3179 it's because youtube is user based platform, if you not uploading for so long and when you come back nobody watch you, it means people move on from you. youtube won't recommend you not because they won't recommend you, people interest changed and you aren't in their list anymore. then for anyone that not subscribe to you won't find and you won't be recommended especially if you build your audience around content but not you. imagine i watch creator A but then i i feel like to watch creator B for 1 week, because all my watch history is creator B, i will not get creator A in my recommendation because youtube will think i interested with creator B more than A for example there's reason why drama farmer in vtuber space keep using nijisanji in their "news" despite a lot of them just unworthy "news", because they build their audience around "hating niji", if they switch their content, nobody will watch even if they constantly upload videos. i mean, im nobody and you can see videos i uploaded have few thousands views when i randomly upload when i was riding the genshin wave back in 2020. i also met some creators who did vertical stream and gain few thousands subs in a week from around 100 subs (vertical stream and short is easiest way to gain subs) while on twitch, if you don't have pre existence audience, you will left in bottom pit and genuinely nobody will find you. the "popular" vtubers we see on twitch grow despite they "didn't" have pre existing audience with new model it was mostly because they already have well known pl then all drama farmers kept bring their pl onto the surface with all controversy around them. or they simply have connection to well established creator there. iirc from ludwig, on twitch you simply need to leech other established creator to grow until you find your core audience, this won't happen on youtube as much as on twitch

[@ledieumort]

The timing of this it's just perfect xD

[@kenzor4953]

well that didnt age well

[@briangarvey6895]

I'd never touch Twitch. I've had some channels I follow on YT try to swap to Twitch, and it was just 'Bye, it was good to know you'. Some even came back after a couple months, as they lost 90%+ of their audience moving to Twitch. Going from 500-1000 live viewers to a few dozen or so, for example. They came back to YT real fast.

[@yumishyum7699]

from what i understand about the 70/30 split on twitch, the partnered vtuber i watch on twitch said u have to pass a "test", streamer has to get over so many self-subs a month(gifted subs dont count) for 3 months in a row.(not sure if more conditions)

[@prohanta9360]

You need 200 organic subs each month to get that. You need 3 months before eligible to apply for that. Prime sub doesn't count. If you losing your 200 organic subs, you will lose the eligibility

[@thegamingfrontier3079]

The unskippable ads on entry when I go to watch streamers killed the excitement of watching the streamer live and I immediately part from the platform.

[@Saber_fgc]

Twitch culture is genuinely so incredibly cringe i could not make myself be on the site for longer than like 30 mins

[@ChiroSenpai]

KZbin good for me because you can just watch the video afterwards. While in twitch you can't even watch their past video.

[@beerninja88]

You can watch past video and even rewind the current stream but it's not intuitive. You have to open the channel landing page by clickingbthe streamer name, then click videos. If the streamer published the video then it will stay there for at least a couple of weeks and if the streamer is smart, they will also publish the vod on YT archive.

[@ChiroSenpai]

@@beerninja88 The thing is I want to watch their first video to present. Twitch don't have that unless the streamer post their video in KZbin. Some of the video is only clips of the the said video. I will not waste my time to find the full video but thanks for info.

[@luart732]

The only thing that prevents me from watching henya is the 9 ads wall, so... No.

[@bunt15]

Skill issue dayo

[@luart732]

No, ad issue dayo(?

[@avant4035]

No. KZbin streaming is FAR better than Twitch in almost every way.

[@charlesqbanks]

KZbin is a better watching experience. Twitch is a better chat engagement experience, monetization, and extension integration.

[@esmi483]

I downloaded Twitch before on my phone and had it on my bookmarks. PC or phone there is no excuse that ads are 30 seconds or more and is unskippable.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

also, it is always funny to see these kinds of videos have the comments devolve into the dumbest form of tribalism. Platforms aren't people, they don't care if you simp for them, nor do they want to be associated with you unless you bring them Ad revenue If you're a content creator, stream on both, Multistreaming now is easier than ever. Be as platform-agnostic as you can

[@Artista_Frustrado]

so turns out Twitch has Region specific ads, so that's probably why that guy didn't get ads i know as much because Chile used to be ad-free on Twich until they added the payment options

[@idanchen4934]

LMAO, the possessive rabbit head made a 3 hour video into a 30 minutes video, the power of editing.

[@BiroZombie]

One thing that some people seem to not know is that you can also keep Twitch VODs permanently on Twitch itself, not just on KZbin. After you finish your stream, take the VOD you made and turn the whole thing into a highlight. That's it. Yes, there's a process to it, but it can be done. One streamer I watch on Twitch has been doing this for 11 years now because that's their oldest Twitch highlight, which is the entire VOD.

[@LuvPepper-ut7wn]

You can only see me on twitch if you and gigguk are streaming on twitch.

[@Mondoness]

im not not gay. sorry guys.

[@Solon_The_Lich]

"I have relationships with women, and sex with men"

[@xyzero1682]

If I was a streamer, I wish I could simply direct any donations/superchats to my amazon wishlist.

[@conspiracyspider]

You can actually

[@harumochizuki]

I would dare say that neither platform is great for monetization since, let’s be real here, either one has rules that are so arbitrary that content creators on either platform and on any corner of the content creation game board can be and have been arbitrarily punished for the tiniest infractions while bigger violations of rules go completely unpunished. In fact you don’t even have to actually do anything against TOS to be banned. Namely looking at KZbin as a first example for permanently banning channels with zero CG strikes over issues like “misinformation” (yeah, sure, a multibillion dollar company is got to decide what’s true or not). Either one will land a content creator in a hole with no earnings having to give up potentially because they got banned and have to start completely from scratch. Does one platform probably have a greater chance of fixing the issue? I mean, yeah, sure. But I’d say the threshold of it happening too often to justify is a pretty low bar to reach, and both platforms have long since passed the bar. All this in mind, I’d dare say a serious content creator may soon be better off making their own website to stream on and make content on.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

20:33 ten streamers at once? dude Twitch Turbo pays itself if you only watch 4 streamers per month, & because of raids you probably end up watching as much

[@TkBloch]

Even though it's pretty clear that vtubers get banned on Twitch more than KZbin

[@ryanlorenzo5003]

KZbin may not have the autistic numbers game that Twitch has. But it's a hell of a lot better experience compared to twitch, in UI, chat community, and mobile apps that work.

[@peachyseraphim]

If you highlight your twitch vod it stays up forever. But since not many people know this they get overlooked and most people go to KZbin for vods

[@digivagrant]

Streaming on Twitch is a reliable filter for me. Separates the wheat from the chaff. 😊

[@blastproc_dj]

Twitch is a cesspool. I don’t think there’s a single vtuber on that platform I can actually tolerate except for maybe two very small indies.

[@AnnHiroCh]

When is the Depressed Nousagi off brand

[@thelittlestmig3394]

Twitch ads are ass. It is watchable with ad blockers on pc but on mobile it's a hard no.

[@maraevantree]

i started on youtube as a streamer and somehow am doing better there than on twitch, but i do better on twitch for engagement like you said

[@Ser0z]

Bro what'd I miss when did bro get a vtuber model

[@baeber]

ew twitch

[@idanchen4934]

You got an edit error on 9:53-9:54.

[@yucinalo]

It's interesting you gave KZbin the advantage in every category of monetization, while Charlie explained how people who have tried both earn more on Twitch than on KZbin. His video isn't specifically about VTubers, but that shouldn't really be a factor for monetization.

[@Rezzhuanne]

100k Subscribers Lezgooo!!! Congrats DN! Dunno when you got 100k YT Subs tho. Congrats nonetheless.

[@CallMeTeci]

Why choose in the first place tho? Multistreaming isnt hard and if for nothing else i would utilize YT just to keep my VODs online. And if people just utilize Restream for two outputs, then thats good enough imo. Adding more isnt hard either, but with other platforms it gets more complicated with a combined chat, where you gonna have to use Social Stream Ninja for combining them. I still mourne Mixer tho... we really need more serious competition int his space than f'in Kick and that is only possible with big ass corpos backing them. So... how do we get the company behind Corn Tub to make a SFW Video and Streaming platform? :I

[@user-S853]

3:24 I had that too for a bit. Eventually they came back though.

[@_tykee]

🎊🏆Happy 100k DN 😊🎉🎊 Edit: I just noticed, your talking mannerisms is very similar to asmongold, the way you pause when you said a point is very asmongold 😀

[@FrarmerFrank]

Push your shit on SHORTS Clippers are getting demonitized and banned so only you doing daily SHORFS on KZbin You tubor Highlights on Twitch is gonna push push you to the front page/featured

[@紫の羊-c3g]

It's okay Nousagi I understand, not all of your takes will be good, sometimes you just miss and this is definitely one of those times, just gotta carry on and git gud.

[@HosKaetan]

Dumb take regardless of any arguments I haven't even watched the video but Twitch is a dying platform

[@calamity916]

Sorry DN, but Twitch sucks.

[@SaybOnEdge]

Wait, is the model male or female?

[@LuvPepper-ut7wn]

Female and she can sing.

[@bashamd96]

Female model

[@ZeoZephyr]

She sang in debut

[@FrarmerFrank]

Some homeless woman the alien rabbit dominates as a "walker" platform Only when he sleeps or use the toilet that she tries to escape 😹

[@basedcommentor]

Yes

[@shanathered5910]

Twitch is a joke