The Fall of Smash 4: Retrospective and Review (Honest Content)

A video essay length look back on Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS, and the competitive eras that affected the game's culture.
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Time Stamps
0:00 What Happened
3:43 Diddy Kong Era
6:43 Sheik Era
9:40 Bayonetta Era (And The Moment Smash 4 Died)
13:56 Cloud Hijinks
16:10 New Game on the Block
20:30 My Connection with Smash 4
24:14 Conclusion

[@makogp747]

"If you like the 3ds version..." Bruh don't be like that to the 3ds gang

[@Opasidity]

i did not have a wiiu

[@thelastgogeta]

Smash Run is a 3DS exclusive and still the best mode in Smash officially. I'll play it over other games for sure.

[@dustymcwari4468]

@@thelastgogeta and its classic mode was fun too

[@yungmuney5903]

I wish you would mention the custom moves and the Miis regarding their whole legality shitshow. Such cool ideas with an execution REALLY left to be desired, especially the custom moves

[@klarekeum7330]

You got it man

[@RisingJericho]

"What game is still played 20 years after its original release?" *Third Strike has entered the chat*

[@yungmuney5903]

Mario 64???

[@chaomasterzero4610]

You cut out the part where said fighting game

[@lucrativelucas2655]

@@chaomasterzero4610 third strike is a fighting game

[@lucrativelucas2655]

Marvel vs Capcom 2 as well as 3

[@chaomasterzero4610]

@@lucrativelucas2655 was talking to @yung muney

[@illford6921]

Bayo did not win the character poll, Sora did, Bayo was just actually feasible at the time

[@21Handguns]

Bayo only one in one region,and Nintendo got the numbers mixed up and thought that Bayo one in every region somehow,which is how Sora lost

[@MissUmbra]

@@21Handguns Even if Sora was miraculously added to Smash 4 back in the day, that wouldn’t have saved the Wii U or Smash 4’s competitive scene. The only reason why Bayonetta “Won” the Ballot then was because she was a character who could be feasibly added to Smash 4 due to less copyright hurdles.

[@21Handguns]

@@MissUmbra again,she only won in one region due to a mistranslation in the ballots,Sora won more in the majority. Do I need to repeat myself a third time,or you good now?

[@visionxry]

@@21Handguns “nintendo got the numbers mixed up and thought bayo won” source?

[@21Handguns]

@@visionxry google lmao

[@SomniaCE]

I unironically loved Sm4sh for 3DS. Smash Run is the most fun party mode in Smash history for me and it really os a shame we'll never see it again

[@k-leb4671]

Smash Run should've been in Ultimate.

[@accelerei7619]

Forgot to mention that bayo did get nerfed in smash 4 but it wasnt enough lol

[@lukedetering4490]

0:18 Smash Run is only on the 3DS. The Wii U was probably the better version, but it didn't make the 3DS version obsolete.

[@EnergyBurst2]

Smash 4 is definitely the Smash game I played the most and got the best at, but I mainly attribute that to the 3DS version making it easy to play in a school environment with your friends meaning I had the drive and opportunity to play it a lot more and with other people in person to boot and despite ult also being on a portable console I'd say smuggling a 3DS XL into school would be much easier and less cumbersome then a Switch even if a Switch would require less overall consoles, though in this case I was outta school by that point so hard to say, but my gut tells me the 3DS would be the more conducive console for making such a situation comfortable to engage in.

[@k-leb4671]

You had to smuggle portable game consoles into school?

[@EnergyBurst2]

@@k-leb4671 I suppose in a sense, but it was not like it was a secret that we had them, we just made sure not to play them in class ever only at lunch or before the doors opened, but certainly other schools might be stricter and require one to do something more akin to smuggling in a console like the 3DS.

[@GatorGoob]

I’m sure you cover this, but the reason Smash 4 died is because Smash Ultimate felt like Smash 4 Deluxe. It felt extremely similar to 4 on a casual level with all the fat removed, the moves and balance tightened, and the many QoL improvements (all characters returning, dynamic lighting, better performance, etc). Or, in other words, it felt like project M to smash 4. So why would Smash 4 be at a tournament when the better version of the same game is already there (Ultimate).

[@Mrnotpib]

Ultimate plays faster, everyone runs faster and hits a bit harder, there’s is a sense of flow to just about every moment in a game of Ultimate compared to Smash 4. Bayo killed it, but the fact that there were just better games available kept it dead.

[@ameliabaroni2650]

I'm gonna say tho, Ultimate kinda lacks in micro spacing options, like perfect pivoting in Smash 4 Overall it feels more fluid but also more limited I would say

[@artimist0315]

Personally I find smash 4 slower pace make the game more strategic and every character stand out more, ultimate really homogenised a lot of the cast.

[@Ryzen-xk8hq]

Just to put this out there, the smash 4 community now mostly lives through discord. People still host smash 4 tournaments

[@firestorm3k882]

Smash 4 tournaments still exist!?

[@theabsolutetrashman3708]

Does Smash 4 has any type of modding scene like Brawl does ?

[@anothenblue2630]

@@theabsolutetrashman3708 AFAIK, there IS a modding scene, but it's far behind Brawl and Ultimate modding being a thing on top of a whole bunch of drama related to hogging vital modding tools stunted its growth. Only the first three games have developed much in terms of modding.

[@DankPit]

“What fighting game is still being played 20 years after its release?” Gotta play more games man there really are a lot of fighting games that have stood the test of time

[@AwesomeMooseSmile]

Despite being bad, Zelda in this game is so fun and my favorite character in smash history, which often makes me want to go back, but then I'm swiftly reminded of why people left this game.

[@Abigdummy4life]

On top of Twilight Princess Zelda being one of the hottest Zelda incarnations.... >//////> Dem boots too

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

You know...the Shiek Era wasn't that bad. Sm4sh was blooming and Shiek was a character that required a lot of skill, akin to Melee Fox...albiet not as broken or hand ruining. She does struggle to kill, forcing her to edgeguard to get earlier kills. I feel that you somewhat ignored that part to make Shiek look like some sort of broken tumour on Sm4sh. . .but maybe I'm seeing it wrong and putting words in your mouth. Also counters in Sm4sh were actually pretty cool. Unlike before, they're actually useful and (aside from Corrin and Bayonetta), no counters were broken or anything. MockRock made a good video about it. And for Ultimate, I'm definitely biased towards it. It's generally what I consider to be a successful blend of competitive and casual. Sakurai only really took a dump on the competitive crowd in Brawl and has been working to find to compromise in both Sm4sh and Ultimate (with the latter being much more successful). While it may lack wavedashing and have an annoying buffer, it's certainly fun to play competitively. That and Dash Dancing does exist in Ultimate; it's just a bit easier to do. Ultimate may not be as competitively geared as Melee or PM, but that's not a bad thing. All have their strengths and weaknesses and it's mainly just personal preference on which is better. Bayo and Cloud did kill Sm4sh tho.

[@SorellaKez]

(i see the point that you're trying to go for here but i just wanna say dash dancing is definitely NOT "easier" in ultimate since it's more of a commitment)

[@ameliabaroni2650]

​@@SorellaKezI think he is saying that from a physical execution dash dancing is easier in Ult. But yeah it is more commital since you are limited to dash attack, dash grab, forward roll and jump during it. Dashing back, attacking and shielding requires you to go through the full animation, making it more commital

[@RTU130]

Hmmm

[@67kingdedede]

Shoutouts to 1.0.0 Greninja gone but not forgotten

[@EnergyBurst2]

"Better Nerf Greninja!"

[@666blaziken]

Great retrospective! I played it for fun, I personally think the worst part of the game is that these top tiers would be mid tier or low tier in a game like melee. Melee despite being unbalanced has a lot of powerful and speedy fighters thanks to both the mechanics and movsets. In the melee documentary, m2k mentioned that mk was good partially because his frame data is similar to a melee character and in a slow game like brawl, it was one of the many things that made him really good. Smash 4's top tiers were very very good because they had combos that are a dime a dozen in melee, which also goes into the "putting a melee character in a slow bad game" trope. This made balancing in sm4sh suck because they had to turn a decently good character into a bad one to keep in pace with the game's mechanics.

[@jiggyjames3971]

No one plays smash 4 cause ultimate is just a updated smash 4

[@meesironman]

The online somehow got worse in Ultimate. I straight up miss For Glory

[@robertmandella6416]

Your best video yet, also god tier thumbnail!!!

[@robertoveroyguitar]

more than a diddy kong era, it was a ZeRo era.

[@potatostuffing5643]

I will say this. I want Smash 4 to get a huge modding community, I don't want to see this game die out...

[@RTU130]

Same

[@liquidladdy]

That captain zach shit was APPALING.

[@smeehee]

If only that were the worst thing captain zach did

[@liquidladdy]

@@smeehee based

[@andrewfirth9858]

Diddy kong didn't lose the kill confirm, it just became a lot less strong. Bowser and DK got throw confirms since they were ASS before and needed something.

[@lagaffe91]

Was very interesting ! Good video !

[@cloudshines812]

In the year 2023, I’m gonna say a hot take: This is the worst Smash game and its for the simple fact that 4 has nothing worth going back to, and that’s mainly because in hindsight… its just a worse Smash Ultimate. At least the other games had something worth memorability to that its still worth playing. 64 is the OG and classic, Melee is the best for tournament play, Brawl has subspace, and Smash Ultimate has practically everything. Aside from nostalgia, I cannot think of one simple reason worth replaying 4Smash. Oh and at least for all the other titles, the modding community has been active and still working. 64 has Remix, Melee has Beyond Melee, Brawl has Project M, and Ultimate has HDR which all amplify and make the base game even better. Smash 4 has none of that

[@voltingmaster5458]

The worst part is that in 5 days, you won’t be able to buy any of the DLC characters anymore.

[@ZAPRST8879]

not to mention that the first 3 were jank incarnate while 4 has bug patch which usually helps and hurts (rip ultimate isabelle inf assist glitch) so people can make fun playing game to play weird gimmick and janks like funny kirby up tilt

[@ameliabaroni2650]

Very good video man. If I had to grasp at straws, I would say that Cloud was released prior to Bayo(patch 1.1.3 while Bayo in 1.1.4) but hey, honestly who cares

[@Crzypengu]

Good video here mate. I also wonder why z button isn't used for aerial attacks like they used to be and are swapped for air dodge. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that it was carried over to Ultimate but its whatever I guess.

[@mrmadmight266]

Smash 4 is an example of when online patches are not ideal. If they patched melee back in the day then it wouldn't be as popular as it still is. it's one of those things i don't like about this digital patches era.

[@georget4141]

PAL melee is a patch, and while it’s fine and europe plays with it, it’s still considered worse than the og, even despite being slightly more balanced

[@Runningwritingreading]

just wanna say, I also was a high schooler who got Omega Ruby and Smash the same day release night :) great storytelling

[@leakyyo0554]

Great video man

[@TamNguyen-wd4op]

The Smash 4 mod called 4XM is really keeping Smash 4 on live support.

[@christianbaker3564]

Where do I play it?

[@TamNguyen-wd4op]

@@christianbaker3564 on both the Wii U (that has to be homebrewed first) and the Cemu emulator on PC

[@stevengarcia7751]

Fantastic review bro

[@SSJPENGUIN]

I'm not sure if there's enough information on it for a video but I was wondering if you're familiar with Brawl+? It was the Project M before Project M, so to speak

[@TheDeepThinker-sq3iy]

...I've NEVER heard of this! am going to check it out! though... if its something that came out BEFORE project m, am gonna just guess it was bad(lol).

[@aidanod9541]

Wow that’s crazy, better nerf Greninja

[@imtiredofitallmakeitstop]

I feel ssb4 was design to be incomplete. Like they knew they was gonna be a big, new, smash game

[@hotnuggies4208]

1:45 “what fighting game is still played 30 years after its original release” Street Fighter Series & MvC2: Am I a joke to you?

[@thirst7827]

Smash 4 3ds slander will not be tolerated.

[@peluquin98]

13:38 imagine using dedede vs bayo on a torunament

[@k-leb4671]

18:00 Wait, aren't pro controllers actually expensive? Like, the price of a AAA game? I thought that was something people complained about a lot in regards to Nintendo.

[@likelyhexoadine1343]

I still play smash 4 (I have a wii u, and I'm good with Mega Man.) Anyways, I remember pre-patch diddy being broken, and my cousin always beating me with him. Eventually, ultimate came out, and i'm glad that it did. I was like at a 1:5 game ratio to him. In ultimate, I started beating him with snake. Smash 4 was too broken for its time. Yet, I still like coming back to it sometimes. :)

[@rafaelblackman9879]

Do you know/remember the super glide toss tech? It allowed anyone with an item to fly across the stage while throwing it.

[@likelyhexoadine1343]

@@rafaelblackman9879 OH GOD NOT THE SUPER GLIDE. yeah. My cousin would abuse the heck out of it!

[@actuallynotsteve]

Street Fighter 2? Street Fighter Alpha? Mortal Kombat 1/2/3? Lots of classic fighting games are still widely played.

[@TamNguyen-wd4op]

Cloud is pretty much a Melee character stuck in Smash 4's engine. That's why he's broken in Smash 4.

[@borederlands5387]

oh i remember the gematsu leak that was crazy

[@pabroah6434]

I casually had a lot of in this game, I would pick low/mid tiers like jugglypuff and link and play some good old smash bros in my 3ds

[@user-dx9zj8kq7h]

Fr, i picked up falcon just cause he looked swag and destroyed all my friends with knee

[@FinalSmashGamer2]

You should give credits to Heeew for the footage you used from their videos.

[@LonelyLoner215]

Remember when Smooth Lander Heavy Gravity was a thing?

[@BryantheArchivist]

I hated the UI and music in 4. Although I really miss some of the bonus modes and trophies missing from Ultimate. The png "spirits" are so lame.

[@ahmadkazan217]

Kinda funny how sonic the most hated smash 4 character(and ult now) pre bayonetta has no major era to affect the game,and people just like to shit on what they don't like.

[@LS-td4yf]

Everyone hates all characters in ultimate. The sonic thing was mostly from that small streak sonix had

[@ahmadkazan217]

@@LS-td4yf Yeah all characters get hate but someone telling a player "to time out in real life" is defenitly not something every character faces.

[@Matanumi]

sonic was always an annoying and lazy moveset. Even wreked havoc in PM. Its just the characters design

[@ahmadkazan217]

@@Matanumi Pretty sure PM sonic wrecked havoc just because of his confirms like up throw d-air and not overhaul moveset.

[@excaliburzx1134]

I still like Smash 4 and a part of me does miss the days of Smash 4 but unfortunately, once Ultimate came around it was very clear that everyone was going to move on to that and the latter dlc of Smash 4’s life span kinda managed to kill the game

[@sullivans2004]

imo the solution woulda been to just either ban bayonetta or bring back custom moves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@FortuneKOF]

i know i'm late but lots of classic fighting games still being played 20 years after it's original release. Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike King of Fighters 98 King of FIghters 2002 Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 Marvel vs Capcom 2

[@Flare8295]

I still play Smash 4 in terms of mods

[@gaby-bq1wu]

nice review, but i need to ask, why do you sometimes sound out of breath?

[@67kingdedede]

Banger

[@chrispo7610]

5:42 keep in mind he was still top 3

[@francis5284]

So.. why could'nt people just ban Bayonetta at tornaments?

[@vietnguyen2293]

i remember being so mad when they nerfed sheik. i don’t think the devs knew how to balance anything in this game.

[@Mepphy99]

6:00 (NOT) thank you captain Zack and Lima for being jerks 18:10 to be Fair Nintendo has 0 reason to enter the competitive scene and It could give them bad spotlight seeing *certain facts happening* and i mean what's the point of re-releasing melee with online features if they gain almost nothing from It (It also make competition from ultimate ...)

[@lickagoat]

In a couple years the exact same thing is gonna be said for Smash ultimate as Smash 4.

[@trixssbm]

Play 4xm/melee hd on cemu or the Wii U

[@LS-td4yf]

4xm is really weird, it feels like if everyone in melee was floaty. But that’s probably because of the smash 4 engine that they slightly tweaked to allow wave dashes and stuff

[@firestorm3k882]

Even though I've never actually played Smash 4 I want it to be revived competitively because I kind of feel bad for the people who actually miss Smash 4 and I'm just curious about what would happen if the game continued competitively (people might've done things like optimizing their characters more if the game didn't die and I'm curious about what people might discover if the game comes back).

[@bigtoblerone8446]

What about the Cloud era?

[@markcampbell4029]

anyone know the name of the song in the intro?

[@lesonicvic]

Late, but if you're still wondering, it's the SSB4 remix "Light Plane (Vocal Mix)" from Pilotwings.

[@lifehurts1183]

No the worst performing Nintendo console was the Virtual Boy at less than a million units. The Wii U sold 13 Million.

[@liquidladdy]

Also game and watch became a HUGE problem about the last 6 months of smash 4's life span.

[@EnergyBurst2]

Really? In what ways, like what was he getting away with that made him unbearable?

[@liquidladdy]

@@EnergyBurst2 having a frame 1 up b out of shield and many EASY kill options

[@EnergyBurst2]

@@liquidladdy Ahh so it was stupidly good in 4 as well.

[@kennygutierrez6809]

@@liquidladdy its frame 2 and no he waant a problem by the end of sm4sh you jim. The problems were bayo, diddy, and cloud.

[@er7776]

@@kennygutierrez6809 then you werent there at norcal regional man. Those last six months we wished we could see bayo in the finals

[@jorgelemus5020]

Great vídeo..... I imagin a they that smash Will evolve to a point that ir Will become basicaly project m

[@fsanmiguel666]

So no reference to Smash 64 huh?

[@AdventVFX]

I flip flop which I enjoy more between ult and smash 4 but once I played melee again both games suck to play competitively for me

[@randowboosh6772]

the patrick cc of smash . W

[@swuirrel2379]

smash 3ds is the only smash game i’ve ever played because i’m broke, and it is by far my least favourite smash game.

[@Flare8295]

Brawl is still alive with mods the same should go with Smash 4 I refuse to believe that Smash 4 is dead with Smash 4 mods around

[@jesuspernia8031]

In retrospect I think it’s worse. I did get into the scene and my love for smash started around 2016 with this game, but looking back, it’s just okay. It’s not bad, but I think it’s just above average. There is a lot of sick things in this game, but it does have a lot of negatives plus I think it can get a little slow. But as an overall game I do think it’s the worst in the series. At least Brawl has Subspace. And smash 4 may have more features than 64, but it will NEVER be as fun as 64. Plus 64 destroys smash 4 when it comes to competitive.

[@Joseramirez-vp6uz]

Man, i´ve been playing smash since 64 and i just hate Melee, i can´t understand why every smash bros game should be like melee when we all know that is a broken game.

[@randompog8493]

personally i think clouds fun but yeah...why hes so stupid as a character particularly in 4 Recovery was actually better in ult with airdodges and autosnap on climhazzard but i mean youre right that he became more fair in ult Still was a gimmick character in 4 and a glass cannon but

[@emotion_deluxe]

Totally glossing over 3DS Rosalina.

[@epicsause21]

The 3DS is my favorite way to play the game

[@thelastgogeta]

3rd Strike and pretty much anything that gets rollback like KOF 2002UM is played 20 years on. Smash 4 was doomed by the fact that Smash Ultimate was on more popular hardware (who has a working 3DS now and who would play Smash 4 unmodded on Wii U) and can be modded to have most of the Smash Wii U merits then some (Smash Run not included). Heck, Brawl has many of the favourites from Smash Ultimate due to modding if you check out PM EX Remix. Terry and Joker are looking nice, but you can have Elizabeth from Fate, Yu from Persona 4 or Nu 12 from BlazBlue if that's your style. Smash Run, Coin Battle and Custom Moves still keep Smash 4 relevant in comparison to Smash Ultimate, but Coins are present in old games which have mods besides custom moves being implemented in a sense there as well. Losing to Smash 4 Bayo (especially unpatched) is annoying, but losing to DLC characters, in general, is just fighting games, my man. I'm not praising Smash 4 based on FighterZ and Tekken 7 existing, but let us be real that it is a very common issue which Smash Ultimate has had to some extent despite a whole year of competition only being online. Smash 4 Cloud was nothing in comparison to Bayo especially knowing double shenanigans in general. Streets of Rage isn't a fighting game but a beat-em-up, you must have meant something else at 16:50. I'm sure I heard of Sakurai playing SNK games

[@Archivist42]

I do think Smash Ultimate is a really good blend of Melee's technical focus and 4/Brawls casual angle. It is my favourite overall

[@lightbrand_]

Ultimate is less technical than smash 4 tho… and less precise too in its controls

[@r.i.petika829]

@@lightbrand_facts

[@RTU130]

Ultimate sux

[@Strawberrycock309]

Ok but I did play the 3ds version because I didn't wanna buy a wiiu.

[@SomniaCE]

No one really thought Little Mac was good back in the day. He was just a gimmick that super casual players lost to online during the 3DS era but competitively everyone knew he sucked from day 1

[@SomniaCE]

Wait why would you say Diddy was nerfed into a shell of his former self? The character was top 3 from the beginning of Sm4sh to the end of Sm4sh why lie about that?????

[@Matanumi]

Man you shat on this game hard.... yea diddy bayo and cloud in doubles sucked the fun out of competitive but there was a few good things that came out of it. Bido, perfect pivots, handheld 3ds... smash 4 is a special game.... and it's core gameplay is much better then brawl is

[@mann-nova9392]

Research in this video could use some work

[@Gadtkaz]

this garbage game killed PM btw...

[@sammorin254]

Didn't know Streets of Rage was a foghting game 😂

[@bartholomewthundercatiii3484]

To me the reason it died so quickly is because Ultimate simply outclasses it in every way. The only interesting idea not improved but Ultimate is custom moves, which were terribly flawed regardless. Melee is still relevant because of its movement and competitive depth, Brawl has the Subspace Emissary, but Smash 4 is just… Ultimate, but slower paced, with less characters, less stages, and the worst single player modes in the series’ history.

[@Gigakoopz]

Bayonetta was def more broken then meta knight in Brawl. Also, smash bros is not a "fighting game". It wasn't just the witch time that was a massive issue about bayonetta. How is smash 4 a better game then Brawl? Brawl doesn't have P2W unlike smash 4, has a story mode and so many other things smash 4 lacks.

[@Gigakoopz]

@@orikrasnovsky8317 Brawl has barely any combos? Not at all, it's just that majority of the combos are chain grabs, which are still legit combos. Meta Knight isn't the only character in Brawl to have gliding, I hope you realize that. Bayo only dominated in combos? Not at all, tf are you smoking? She has the best counter in the game, crazy kill confirms (mostly due to rage mechanic and the nature of her mid-air combo, combined), disjointed hitboxes, insane frame data (tho Brawl MK has better in the frame data part), perfect edge-guarding, has an easy time getting back up on stage & can 0-K.O you not just horizontally, but also veritically just like Meta Knight can. There's no way you are saying that only the combo side is the only area bayo dominates with unless you are either trolling or refering to smash ultimate bayo. Very few characters in smash 4 can space out bayonetta with superior reach (Cloud for example can).

[@Gigakoopz]

@@orikrasnovsky8317 Dominating implies really good if not best at something. It just looks to me like you are backtracking now. Are you aware of how far bayo's smash attacks reaches? Far more then the futherest attack that Lucina and Marth has. This is not to mention that she shoots projectiles from lots of directions while performing non-special moves, even for aerials. Zss isn't really known for begin a spacing character. Can ZSS do spacing with two of her moves (3 if you count projectile)? Yes, but that's not really what she is known for. Lucina and Marth are known for begin spacing characters because their moves are inherently long reach. You say MK was unedgeguardable but Pika could get passed that just like in smash 4. I would argue pika had a better chance getting up on stage against MK then against bayo since bayo's counter can litterly be used against pikachu's favour and then pikachu gets punished by a charged up smash. Despite begin a sword character, meta knight was never given a counter move like bayo and most sword characters (not to mention how god like bayo's counter is). The grab is limited design which is why it's favourable on maps like final destination but not favourable in battlefield. ZSS is a good combo character in Brawl that doesn't rely on grabs, so I don't know what you are on about. In conclusion, I don't believe for a second that you've had enough experience with both the smash games to make that judgement.

[@DMLB108]

Now that nickelodeon all stars brawl comed out, smash 4 is officially dead, and also all stars is near do kill smash bros brawl

[@goGothitaLOL]

See in the future whenever you make "The Fall of Ultimate" due to Steve and Kazuya being broken (with Pythra and Joker not far behind, and to an lesser extent Sonic), with a lack of tech beyond the forgotten Slingshot No DACUS, no Perfect Pivoting, and none-existent Wavedashing nor L-Cancelling cause those were too laggy and that's all without mentioning the poorly designed online and that's when HDR and Ultimate S (and to an lesser extent Championship Edition) come into play

[@_squid_6707]

Smash 4 wasn’t that bad and the 3rd port was only way to play smash portable

[@crow495]

Smash 4 just sucks, even before ultimate smash 4 sucks. 3ds af least a solid handheld fighting game. The console version is inexcusable with how shit the ui, classic mode and single player mode was. Like this game is beyond shit.

[@FumanyuX]

"One step forward two steps back" You gotta understand that competitive smash community is a MINNORITY.

[@xboxgamer474246]

You joke that the Wii is a boomer machine but Brawl was the best selling fighting game of all time until Ultimate came out.

[@bettermebetterlife8975]

5:23 "*The best player at the time* played Diddy Kong". His name is ZeRo, say it loud and proud

[@goiabexp]

Smash 4 is slower than Brawl

[@ligma334]

Sakurai didn't intend for wave dashing to be a thing so I definitely wouldn't give them credit for that also this means they would have no idea how to balance characters since wave dashing wasn't on anyone's radar

[@LoKing1337]

Sakurai definitely intended for wavedashing to be a thing

[@NOTCOLEADA]

@@LoKing1337 but he definitely didn’t intend for it to be used as it is today

[@rodrigoqueirozmontenegro3456]

Samurai knew about wavedash but its wasn't intended

[@doubletime9098]

Iejeo