"Zeei" Leaves 10 Seconds into 15 Freehold - A Microcosm for What's Wrong with WoW in 2020

To me, this seems like the pinnacle of a bunch of problems plaguing the WoW community in 2020 and I had to leave my thoughts on the topic.
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[@heythereguysitsMetro]

We have had all kinds of poor play and selfish players since we began pugging the majority of our dungeon content in Legion, but this one honestly takes the cake in all ways. There are a lot of different mind sets out there about finishing keys, but I hope no one could ever think this sort of thing could be looked at as acceptable. A somewhat similar thing happened a long time ago as well, which you might also find funny: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5-7inijbdila9U

[@ChrisZestyJesty]

I remember way back when I was playing dota in warcraft 3 we had an addon called a list checker that was basically a ban list. You could add players who left a game early to the list and if they tried to join your lobby they would come up on your list checker and get booted from the lobby automatically.

[@Corvinaification]

@@ChrisZestyJesty used to use the badapples addon for this

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@ChrisZestyJesty Interesting! It would be nice to solve this problem personally, but still, its not going to solve it for others.

[@ChrisZestyJesty]

@@heythereguysitsMetro the only way to do it via the community is basically have a personal yelp/Angie's list profile for everyone to leave reviews on. Which is still subject to abuse if left unmoderated.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@ChrisZestyJesty This is the way to do it. Just provide the facts and let people make their own decisions. That's what I was thinking about doing with our website we were going to make. Submit a video with evidence of the player's misdeeds and let people view it and think for themselves.

[@SmokerFace12]

Had a mess of a run in Freehold and at the end the tank typed: thanks for staying till the end. Its quite bizzare to get a thank you for just finishing what you signed up for.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sad that that's the abnormal part haha

[@OrganicJKW]

I've noticed this a bunch while leveling, actually. I was running the Timewalking dungeons this past week as a way to level another healer. Folks pulled too much, weren't using CDs, we wiped. Usually folks would drop and just requeue, but the whole team stayed on. I thanked everyone at the end as we had a couple extra wipes along the way. Folks were chatting and just generally having a great time which was also shocking. I say, "Good morning/afternoon/evening, all!" everytime I enter a dungeon. Maybe 10% of the time I even get a /wave or other reply. It's amazing to me how isolated doing party content can feel.

[@NQuick-bn7ts]

After my guild cleared Court of Stars we jumped into a 15 freehold, took forever and we died a lot. Good Heroic raiders, poor M+ beyond 13. It happens.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@NQuick-bn7ts Court of Stars is a Legion dungeon. Anyway, that's just a learning thing. 15s are extremely easy if you are properly geared. Just a numerical thing. The tuning is very low this season. Or more so, corruption is overly strong.

[@NQuick-bn7ts]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I meant Eternal Palace. My bad been away from the game for a few months.

[@jg3685]

You hit the nail on the head, great video thanks.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Very welcome

[@off1300]

I joined a 9 Under rot key as a healer with a team that was really undergeard we made it to the half way to the mobs before the 3rd boss and none of them were intrpting and the tank was not using defensive (btw i healed a ++16 junk and i still had a hard time healing him ) all the dps were shit i did more damage than most of them , so when they died at the and i knew we wont time this dung (cuz im in it just to time it tbh i could have went for a higher key but i just wanted to warm up on a 9 ) then i left cuz it will be a waste of time . do you think its justified ?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nope. If this was an issue you could have spotted it before the dungeon started. I can basically solo a 9 thanks to the buff. Doesn't matter if people are interrupting or undergeared or whatever.

[@Matg1699]

The thing I personally hate about mythic + is the raider io stuff. I've done a lot of keys +8-14. my raider io score is only like 1.4K? 1.5K maybe. But people won't invite me to ANY keys anymore because, well for starters I'm not in a guild, but 2nd of all, I keep getting this type of shit. Where we start a key and either the tank D/c, the tank has very important business that they NEED to attend to after every single pack and the business they are doing takes a minimum of 30 seconds each time. or dps leave. or healers leave or whatever. My main point being, I'm not a bad player, I do all the mechanics right (when I actually get into a key), my dps is solid (typically around 120K+ on AOE packs or 60K sustained/100K bursting on single target), my ilvl is a smexy 475. I have best in slot items, following my build perfectly, I'm always either 0 deaths or the least deaths in the instance, and ALWAYS top DPS... but people still don't want me in their group because "raider io" says im trash. it makes me not want to play the game all because some fucking idiot leaves the dungeon just like this douche Zeei.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well to be fair this is easily solvable by just running your own key. RaiderIO score is not the only reason they don't invite you. You have to realize how many DPS sign up to some keys. Its likely more about comp and the affixes than anything most keys.

[@LastTryMedia]

Anyone that enters a M+ knows the consequences of a party member leaving. There should absolutely be some kind of punishment for leaving early. Yes, you are free to play how you like, but you're making a commitment by joining the group. If you leave, you should take a hit of some kind.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, this is the punishment. Social punishment is all there can be, as there is no way to differentiate between players agreeing to stop doing the current key to try the next one one level down, and people like this.

[@Fingolfin3423]

Players like Zeei are under the assumption that there's only one way to do things. If you break that mold, you're immediately deemed as being "wrong." Rigid, myopic players that don't understand there's more than one way to skin a cat. People who don't like to do things a different way. It could be based on previous bad experiences, but it's more likely due to arrogance on "how things should go." There are a lot of arrogant players out there, especially when it comes to content like keys. That's partly due to the gaming culture we live in now with streamers and tons of knowledge and strats out there. The whole, "Well these are the routes made by twitch-dude-x and it's what we need to do." That kind of crap. There should be a blacklist-like system for selfish, adolescent, stupid people like that. On a side note, this is why I only run keys with guildmates and a few trusted people on my bnet list. If those people aren't available, I don't run keys. Even though situations like the one in this video are horrible, it does provide an incentive to create and/or join a guild of good-natured people who are also at least somewhat competent and can time keys that are at least a +15. Regarding punishing someone like Zeei, you can make a KZbin video about it and show his name openly. That's at least some form of accountability. Show his name, his guild, and what realm he's on. You did that. Good job!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, for sure. Sadly the only way to punish is do this exact thing.

[@Ciniboi]

Some guy did this to me today....wasted 1 hour of my life to find a tank. We entered the dungeon, started the key and he left.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Crazy. That should be bannable for sure.

[@raguru1032]

Wait, it’s bolstering right? Wtf lol. Yes pull everything at the start! WHAT COULD GO WRONG?!

[@andrewcortez2110]

Bolstering or not, pulling the starting 3 packs in a FH is always viable. Not sure if you're joking or not lol but just putting it out there

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@andrewcortez2110 Viable, for sure, but would you really recommend it in a 15 Bolstering Tyrannical Freehold? I certainly would not.

[@jeffraunec]

@@andrewcortez2110 regardless of it's viability of not, the tank is leading... If you're joining a pug, letting the key start and then just leaving, there is absolutely NOTHING acceptable about that.

[@andrewcortez2110]

Jeff Raunec I think you misread my comment friend, I never said it was excusable nor would I ever defend that. It’s a shitty thing to do, and I’ve had it happen to me on alt keys. I only said that its a viable pull for FH keys, maybe I misspoke or something

[@lohuune9627]

I've been doing this pull in keys all week it's fine. The guy leaving for not doing the pull is idiotic yes. But the pull is VERY viable and usually recommended for efficiency

[@saewels]

Man, not sure why this video popped up on my feed and just realized this was 2 years ago. How can someone rock short and long hair like a badass main character who is going through a mayor new arc?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha ya this was right before I started growing it!

[@har1smalik]

Relatable video. I am not racist, don't want to be or don't mean to be but from my experience of almost always pugging keys, whenever I have had a Russian or Russians in group, they have always been the first ones to leave at a wipe or max 3 wipes. Even if it was for a stupid reason, unnecessarily burning the key. Just a tip for pugging on EU servers.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I've heard a lot about Russians on EU :(

[@kevinevans5720]

maybe if they don’t lock the key until the first boss is engaged?! So you can just restart the key at the same lvl if people leave 30sec in

[@edenite]

i like this idea

[@war1980]

Better idea is just scale to group the way visions are.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Interesting idea, but in general I don't understand why keys should downgrade at all. I just don't see the purpose when something like this could be the reason why.

[@war1980]

@@heythereguysitsMetro They need to degrade, otherwise you can just chill your way to high end gear by spamming 15s.

[@kevinevans5720]

@OneAzerothTV ya I guess no reason to actually downgrade. Other than everytime the group gets to last boss and time runs out. The key holder would just leave the group and put together another group. So the other 4 people just wasted 30mins for nothing.

[@Shadyyus]

You tell them metro. I don't care for blizzards no name and shame. I have a few to call out myself

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I understand why its that way on the forums, but it doesn't matter. This is not acceptable.

[@jam34786]

Good on you calling him out. Don't want to be put on blast, don't do shit you wouldn't be proud of. Pretty simple.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, one way or another, this activity is not acceptable. I know people think its the player's right to do what they want, but surely no one can defend this.

[@Roman470]

tanking itself isnt hard. its pretty easy to keep yoursef alive. its knowing what to pull, when, and how and what each mob does is the hard part. like i literally JUST found out yesterday that the soap bubbles in freehold before the captains boss cc you when you jump. damn

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, a lot of it is experience for sure.

[@brewtank6738]

This is why guilds are important and finding like minded players in a mmorpg is essential! Sucks to pug and have someone leave though.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Pugging is perfectly viable even as the GM of a guild for the last 12 years! This should never happen, period.

[@HYPERPEACE]

I had a 12 key on Motherlode, which downgraded to an 11 after a tank rage quit. This 11 key, got a decent Blood DK. Probably over levelled. We get to the 2nd obelisk, and we accidentally kill that mini boss on the trash. The tank leaves. It's so dumb. I hate how players aren't punished for leaving. (It should downgrade their key)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Something has to change, for sure.

[@glennvanrymenant3118]

Rumors say he left because you were still using a old intellect flask :). Na joking everything u said is correct. I am a Tank and i often feel bad if the key fails and even help out the creater to upgrade the key again for him. This is just how WoW M+ is. And most firemages are very obsessed with their perfect combustions timing and will complain quickly or even ninjapull trash while your on a great time to finish a KR 22 and just deplete it singlehanded for you. Cuz they don't like the "safe" pulls when there is enough time on the clock. Not every firemage is like this :) but many. Some ppl play 6 hours long to get a specific key they want and pugs just come in and destroy it in less then a minute + blaming you.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, you almost cant blame them. They spec is really oddly designed. But either way I have just stopped pugging with mages because of this. Not worth the aggravation.

[@glennvanrymenant3118]

​@@heythereguysitsMetro I try to play arround combustion and make them see big numbers at least. but it's impossible to please everyone. People are always so shy to come discord aswell. The reaction i get is "wtf discord for 19?-20?-21?" lol. I just like to socialize and communicate through the dungeon tbh :p. To many depletes cuz no interupts or misunderstandings.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@glennvanrymenant3118 I feel ya. Discord is better for sure. Sadly I can't risk it on stream. Lot of antisocial players too though. The few times I use it no one says anything.

[@jackiethomas3301]

Something similar happened to me, i was tanking a freehold and i wanted to pull the opening three packs in 2 pulls, and save hero for the first boss because it was a rough trash week. so i go to the trash and this hunter in the group pulls all three with multi shot and heros himself. I asked him why and his respond was literally “i could have done 400k dps there” like thats all he wanted to do was the big dps so he just did it even though i told him not too literally 5 seconds prior.

[@jackiethomas3301]

Another thing i do is, i never take people who are way over qualified for the dungeon. Ive seen too many high io players rage cause were not doing mdi strats so just take people that arent 2 high

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, like he doesn't even care about the success or the dungeon, just wants to see the big numbers haha

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya, I always avoid players like that too. Ironically, this guy was barely qualified for this key ROFL

[@Giddens1204]

Leave before say first 10 minutes and you own key is destroyed and you are locked out of Mythic plus for 24 hours. Be savage

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, neat idea to talk about, but wouldn't be possible to differentiate between people leaving keys selfishly and people stopping for other reasons.

[@itskhro]

I see this and appreciate my guild more and more by the second... Good lord. Leaving before the timer runs out should punish you in some way.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I would tend to agree, but sadly wouldn't be able to work that way. There are legitimate reasons to stop running a key.

[@itskhro]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Probably. Or there could be a strikeout-counter on each reset, or day. Something something. A solution would in the end have to come from Blizzard on this one :/

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@itskhro Ya, either way no objective way to punish players unless Blizzard redesigns the way grouping for them works.

[@drigs.]

@@heythereguysitsMetro they could easily add in a surrender mechanic like LoL does where the group can vote to abandon the key and if you leave a non abandoned key you get a penalty.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@drigs. Not easily, that's the thing. Right now, to group for these you just form a group like all other content. To do what you suggest, they need to make it a different system, more like LFR. Either way, it doesn't matter because people will do the same thing they do in games like that. Just AFK until they can surrender and even if the surrender fails, put in no effort for the rest of the match. Its just not going to work in this game, especially when the dungeon is timed.

[@mizzymk1475]

I have this problem too when it comes to M+, I hit a ceiling with pugs rarely timing a key that is between 7-11 while I am a 465 ilvl ww monk maximizing my dps as best as I can. I do my research and learn routes but I there is also some way in M+ pugs to pull me down and not able to maximize my ability

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well best option is to just do your own key. Try not to invite people that would pull you down, and make friends along the way. Harder than it sounds, sadly. Thanks to a terribly designed M+ score.

[@mizzymk1475]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I do exclusively only do my key now, I know I am good enough to run high keys but haven't been playing this season long enough to establish myself through I.O or my guild

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@mizzymk1475 You should climb quickly if you are putting good groups together. Most of my alts got 15+ done their first week trying. Just about finding a cohesive group with a strong composition.

[@mizzymk1475]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Thanks for your input! I am trying my best everyday to get better, I'm sorry for your experience people can be real dickheads

[@Cathole2305]

It’s tich, they are just like that.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha

[@dacoolist]

OneAzerothTV it’s tru...

[@monsteralx1]

Not true, I stay in Keys no matter how overtime a key is, tho I'm a warlock so getting into keys is ready hard enough

[@bojnebojnebojne]

This kind of behavior is unacceptable. It completely goes against Blizzards Code of Conduct and should result in a ban on the players account. It is very obvious he leaves because he didn't like the strategy. If he had left without saying anything we wouldn't be able to tell if he left because he didn't like strategy, or because something in real life happened that forced him to leave. And even in the case of the later, he probably would have the time to tell the group his reason for leaving. In general though, i think a player has the right to leave the group if the group is struggling to complete the content and that player do not enjoy wasting his time after he has tried to help the group. That is not the case here though for sure. This is an intentional troll or at the very least a ruination of 4 peoples gameplay experience. I vote for a Ban on that guy for sure since it goes against the Code of Conduct.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It does not go against any code of conduct, but I agree it is totally malice and they should update the terms to account for this sort of thing.

[@RottinPotato]

is there a way to keep track of his profile, even if he changes his name ? I don't want this kind of trash near my keys and I would like to know if there's a way I can track it. Let it go rampant so everyone knows not to invite him anymore ..

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Not sure about a name change, but ya just look him up on raiderIO

[@michaelbeleut6480]

Imagine being a 11/12M fire mage with 2k IO and ruining someone’s key. That man is definitely a low life. CORRECTION: Boy is definitely a low life.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya key word is boy for sure.

[@michaelnovak9201]

Imagine playing on Tich xD the NA equiv to Rag

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@michaelnovak9201 Na has its own Ragnaros realm and its already its own meme haha

[@Supersmashnorden]

As a tank that pugs this is the most relatable video I've ever seen.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Sad that that's the case, but I feel ya haha

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

I just dinged 120 on my hpally and did a couple +5s, +6s soon after. I felt like I was a detriment to my group and thought about just leaving. I apologized to the group and said I can’t keep up. The tank told me not to sorry, you’re here to learn. This was the FIRST time something like this has happened to me and I’ve played this game since wotlk. I’ve had worst experiences in timewalkings than I did w this random pug. Good people are out there but there are a lot more dicks.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@TheArmouryOfficial Ya, and its a lot easier to remember the negative than the positive at times.

[@Skhmt]

I see tanks leave more often than dps or heals, since tanks can instantly find another group while dps and heals generally have to wait longer

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Skhmt I find it the other way around. Always waiting for a good DPS in the keys I have pugged recently.

[@headwinded1948]

Pugging anything in WoW is just depressing, especially M+. You see this same mentality in lower keys as well.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I wouldn't say that. I have made a career off it basically. Its not like this happens often.

[@bluclosetgamer4577]

Literally seen someone leave seconds into a key saying “gl next time don’t decline my rogue” the guy literally gets declined for key jumps on his main just to mess up his key.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ha damn that I am not surprised by. A lot of vindictive people out there. Unlucky really.

[@DrMaoh]

God what a fucking pussy.

[@TheJaimexxd]

Lmao, that just some fucked up mentality.

[@chinaman1]

I'll be honest and say i've done that before, but on raids. and leave before oss pulls.

[@Ao2BairdTUR]

@@chinaman1 I've only done this when people do "NO ALTS" when my "alt" is a higher ilvl and prog than their "main" but ive never done it n a Key, and when i "have" in a key, its BEFORE we start. Its as we fill. So atleast i didnt ruin the key. :shrug: However on a side note. This kid is STILL in his guild nad only 2400 .io so he has only gained 300 .io since this day.

[@jdelgado216]

As a healer pugging someone else's key, the least I can do is finish the run even if it takes 30+ wipes

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup, its the least anyone can do. If you are invited by some one else to their key, that is a priveledge that you should return kindly. Various people have various opinions on when and where its appropriate to stop without the consent of the group, but NO ONE should ever just leave selfishly after a small mistake unless its their key and they have different aspirations.

[@wowkid7784]

@@heythereguysitsMetro 100% agree here. If someone decides to pull you in on their key, I think you've at least the obiligation to finish it, even if you don't time it. If you don't you miss out on the opportunity for loot that you might need. A 40% chance of getting SOMETHING is better than a 0% regardless of your key not getting updated.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@James Sanchez yup I agree. The problem is they don't care about the loot or anything else blizzard can give more than epeen score.

[@DciZNoble6]

As a Tank I feel your pain, I especially hate when they pull for you

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I mean I guess that's the only way this could have been any worse. He could have pulled all three packs himself then left when he didn't get help with them.

[@nomnomNACHO]

Mages are getting out of control. I have a mage friend who I do keys with and he always complains about combustion not being used when he wants to.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

@@nomnomNACHO Tell your friend that Fire Mage is meant to be played with a coordinated group where you plan the the pulls to accommodate the combustion windows. if he is running pugs, he's better of staying in Frost or something

[@nomnomNACHO]

Keyboard Warrior Ofc. But if your group doesnt accommodate that plays style you dont just leave :D

[@dacoolist]

@warlucia you love it

[@Jonpocalypse_]

Solution is simple: raider.io should just track how often ppl “leave group” in the middle of the dungeon. Or their ratio of “dunegons started:completed”

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Unfortunately, it can not. Blizzard doesn't allow it.

[@buliwyfZrage]

@@heythereguysitsMetro And thats just so damn stupid. They shouldnt allow these addons/websites then in the first place if they cannot handle terrible players like these.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@buliwyfZrage Well, no thats why they don't show that information. They don't want people making addons or websites doing the opposite of this. But it doesn't matter. RaiderIO has shown negligence in the face of a huge issue they have created for this game. Never have I seen a third party influence an area of the game so much. Its time to change that one way or another, and if I was blizzard it would be a death sentence for their scoring nonsense.

[@r.gletscher5162]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Then people would simply not pug keys anymore. You can try it yourself. List a key beyond +15 and dont use any metric other than ilvl to evaluate your choice and see how successfull you are. It's easy to complain, but those suggestions are insanely short sighted and seem to only be based on temporary anger. Just dont let keys drop a level if someone leaves or you choose to abort the run. You will still run into leavers, but you keep your key and the dammage done is dampened.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@r.gletscher5162 Nothing short sighted about it. Been thinking about it and talking about it at length for the better part of 3 years.

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

I don’t understand how leaving or getting kicked from LFG or Timewalking is more punishing than m+, one of the “pillars” of endgame.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh, ya just because those systems force you into groups with other players. Raiding and M+ you have to build the group yourself so there is some social responsibility for all members to each other instead of enforced responsibility. Blizzard's stance on this is I shouldn't have grouped with some one who might leave, and its understandable. MY stance on it though is I don't have the information I need to know that I invited this type of player, so there needs to be better systems in place, or more options for recourse for the keyholder.

[@edpham2727]

Apparently someone reported this Zeei guy in the Horde M+ community for leaving a 16 FH while they were going to Ring of Booty.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya? Good, hope the word gets out

[@Ao2BairdTUR]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I would like to say. I had discussion with this man on his DK, about Clawing Shadows, and within 10-15 seconds into the conversation. He calls me out for having less Prog than him, Lower Parses (which mind you my DK has almost no parses even on my 2 mythic kills, neither of them were parsed) and goes on and on negatively talking shit to me, all because i asked him why he was Using Clawing Shadows (which is 1000% the weakest talent in the row). So i can completely see this being a common thing for him, He is a very toxic individual who thinks himself to be better than anyone else.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Ao2BairdTUR you mean you talked to the mage about death knight? Either way, this type of behavior doesn't just happen once. It's a mentality not a choice, sadly.

[@Ao2BairdTUR]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Yea he was on his DK in a Raid, and i was on an alt, and i was wondering why he was using Clawing Shadows because its the worst in the row, Now im slightly toxic, but usually its warranted or when its pvp involved, but that dude throwing progress/Parses as why he is better and saying "until you get a cutting edge dont talk about whats best" i was like yo what?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Ao2BairdTUR ya that's just acting like a child lol. Funny anecdote. How did you realize it was him?

[@auffantre]

hahaha, he wanted to lust and combust the 9 pack, so he could show you his awesome dps. You guys ruined his day..... I do agree that this is wrong...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, looks like all he was after was the meter whoring. Would have liked to see it, because my man Seinfailed usually is just as potent as any mage we have ran with.

[@suni8377]

Not only this is insanely mean and disrespectful to everyone involved, he was also not even fonting for the "big pull" supposed to happen, really wondering what went through this guy's brain...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@suni8377 Not a ton it seems!

[@crippen479]

In my experience, people leave key when they are about to lose face. Fire mage has huge pride, and feel entitled to big pulls when their combustion is ready, cause outside of that, they are tank damage, barely above (most of them). I also had a resto leave our boralus key right before first boss, the most difficult bs pack on bolstering where things usually go a bit wrong. Why can't they simply wait and see if the group can recover? At least give the party a chance to recover.. Can't stand people who feel so entitled for everything to go their way.. I actually like fuck ups, its fun to try control the chaos and recover and win. Usually its very doable.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right, fun or not ITS PART OF THE CONTENT. There are thousands of runs ran by much better players than this dude who make a huge mistake and still time keys that are much higher than anything he or I have done. I was just watching one where the group pulls all three of those, and chain dies to bolstering last few mobs. like 9 deaths out of the gate, but they finally finish it, and they carry on to upgrade the key. It was a 24 too!

[@waffleiron7740]

Blacklist & whitelist / reputation functions to reduce community toxicity. Like an eBay feedback score. There needs to be some form of detriment to doing this that currently doesn’t exist.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I would tend to agree, but its hard to do without being partial to one type of play style. For now, I am happy to be the executioner.

[@draves8953]

Maybe some system like overwatch has? At the end of each match you can vote who you thought was a good communicator/team player, stuff like that. Also have an option to write a negative review or something. Make it so it requires multiple bad reviews from multiple account for them to get reprimanded for toxic behavior.

[@rokkap249]

I would love that

[@OrganicJKW]

In FFXIV, you can give an official kudos to another party member at the end of the run. It counts toward getting an achieve and can only be accrued by PUG members, not by members in your party before the run began. The social culture in that game is so different from most of what I experience in WOW and I think that kind of positive reinforcement is a partial reason. Max level players are also encouraged to queue for lowbie dungeons and help out.

[@dotta4763]

Waffle Iron it’s dangerous It can work the other way around too. You can get a bad score from idiots upset as you tried to explain them why what they did the last pull was wrong

[@vojtechbrezik2998]

I'm happy that you're calling this kind of shit out. I've had this happen too and it sucks so much. Now that I'm 2k score (i know it's not too high from your perspective :D ) i have no issue getting into keys but back when I had to work hard to upgrade my key all the way to 15, having someone leave it and pretty much destroy all the effort I put into it would very much ruin my day. Keep it up!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It still ruins my day honestly. Hate it when my key fails to complete because of selfish players. Feels like such a permanent loss.

[@vladmatei1958]

I pugged m+ all BFA and I'm sick of it. I spend hours/ days to get into a +18 - +20. I would have liked to get in your guild, but I'm on EU realm.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I feel ya. Its an uphill climb almost always. Too bad about the EU and US split! The time difference would be a big problem too though either way.

[@Dremecuz]

If you had a nickel every time this video was referenced in chat lol. I've never experienced selfishness to this extreme but I've had a fair share of players disagreeing with my route and leaving.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

This was a legendary moment and some how still it didn't spark a discussion that would lead to change. Kinda sad to look back on honestly.

[@optimizedlaziness6183]

​@@heythereguysitsMetroit's the usual issue of the people who are callef lug by this video do not watch it in the first place so you end up mostly preaching to the converted. Still great video though, I'm getting back into the game after leaving at the start of BFA and your videos help me to soak up and learn the culture/mindset of m+ so while this video might not have reached its OG goal, it indirectly helps people :)

[@100kejimaeda]

You are the reason I stopped buying keys and because of that I can run all dungeon timed 13 and pushing to 14 key next.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nice, glad to have helped!

[@MsDmacD]

He's used to doing it a certain way and because you were doing it differently, he just assumed you didn't know what you were doing (hence the lmao) so he left. It's just sad that there are people out there so arrogant with this my way is the only way attitude.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, well if that is actually the truth, hes a fool. The tank in this run is arguably twice as qualified as he is. Sad times either way

[@kevinevans5720]

I’ve had this happen to me a lot this season (s4). I tell the group what I’m pull and a dps tells me what to do cause he’s going to be carrying us anyways. Just because the higher gear and corruption. Makes these dps think they’re calling the shots now. The corruption gear has literally corrupted people now

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ha, funny way to put it honestly. The corruption has taken over more than just our characters :/

[@markurixjones1820]

i got multiple demonhunters that left instantly because they didnt get their pre meta...even tho we had pulltimers

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I actually have a clip of that too. In the pinned comment haha

[@luissimas1427]

Omg, i've seen my share of that too 😶😂

[@miksn222]

Well I play both hunter and dh and I see a lot of pugs not actually do pull timer and then not getting meta cause they just start. If they are so idiotic that they can't do a 10sec timer for a free meta then I don't wanna play with them. I am usually not the person to leave unless people are brain dead and not giving a timer is brain dead. If I get a timer and I fuck it up sure I will stay and take the punishment of fucking up on my end.

[@Seraphima249]

Offer to do another key for that mage and ask/discuss before every single pack as long as you had to wait for him waddling his big butt over from Zul'dazar to freehold xD On a serious note: WHAT AN IDIOT x)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, joking aside, I hope I find myself in a group with that guy, because he is going to remember me next time.

[@stunsisacul]

I think there should be no key. If you complete a 15 on time then that should just be open to you always. And you get access to the next level only, until you complete that on time. And, sure, if you get carried through something you’ll get a key that’s too high for you but that’s their issue to deal with. They can either keep banging their head on a too high key or select a lower level.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup I totally agree with that actually. That's exceedingly advanced compared to the current system though and would likely break down a lot of the randomness of pushing. This would likely make things a lot easier at the top end.

[@abnormal3027]

Definitely a huge issue with wow atm, and tbh idk what blizzard can do about it, and it worries me going into sl,

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sadly the community is the worst part about the game some times. Not much Blizzard can do. Its up to us!

[@athraxis]

It's not a huge issue. I've maybe had it happen once or twice for the entire expansion, and I mostly do keys. Maybe it's a horde thing.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@athraxis Ya, its certainly a side-effect of a competitive ambition. Not sure that exists on Alliance.

[@bononoz2948]

It's always been the tank. I hate it when DPS tell me that my route is bad despite me clearing the dungeon with that route. It's like they don't notice anything else. I have my faults as a tank but my routes got me Keystone Master for a reason. That being said, I don't mind criticism but tell that shit to me at the end of the run.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, its quite frustrating when DPS act like the Tank should cater to them either way. I know a lot of people do keys in interesting and increasingly optimized ways, but the way I look at it, pugging is not the place to nitpick that sort of thing. Control as many variables as you can and do your best.

[@redlou3908]

OneAzerothTV yea deffently isnt. its just this high feeling of self entitlement and arrogance these players have, thinking everything caters to them

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@redlou3908 Ya, its a problem for sure.

[@alvarosanjuan7927]

I love tanking... but people like this exist... a couple of days ago on my bear I had this hunter badmouthing everyone all the time... when I took more packs at the same time as he asked just for him to shut up and died as tank because I had too many necrotic stacks.... and then badmouthed me because I died.... but hey I have to pull having in mind the healers' capability to heal the group and not pull on some random dps dude demands

[@estarriol5166]

A lot of great discussion, Metro. Thanks for posting the video. I've had my share of these negative experiences. Though I wonder how much observational bias is skewing our perception. Certainly, we remember these painful experiences more vividly than the pleasant ones. It will be interesting to see your spreadsheet of runs with the completion status. That will give us some actual data to use to draw some objective conclusions.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, for real. That's the main reason why I am doing it. Looking forward to keeping a track of that, especially to compare season 4 of BFA to Season 1 of Shadowlands.

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

what if a system was put in place where you could "recover" a key lost too someone leaving or disconnecting etc. Then again it would be too hard to make the system not easily exploitable.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Maybe. I think I put a good proposal together. Just have to have ample incentive to finish keys.

[@s0515033]

Then if the key is going badly, you just tell someone to alt f4 and you get a do over.

[@sacredcupcake7489]

thought process when m+ as dps (main): stay silent follow tank kill whatever that needs to be killed. thoughts when i am tanking (alt): it's my way or gtfo

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, for the most part in pugs, this is the only mentality that lends itself to a successful group. Anything else will lead to arguments.

[@wowkid7784]

I think, as Metro says in the video, there are a lot of things at play here. I 100% agree with him that this guy is an example of the problem that the community has right now. Raider.IO has, perhaps inadvertently, created a number of them, although blizzard not doing a whole lot about it is also part of that. My feeling is this. Your score has nothing to do with how "good" you are. I've said as much in my guild chat and on Metro's streams a number of times. You could just as easily buy ALL of your keys with gold and have an artificial raider.io score. That allows trash players to get high keys because they have the fortune to do so. Where as someone like myself, who does not posses that much gold, or doesn't believe in buying a run, never mind selling them, cannot get into a key because my score is low due to having a job and other responsibilities that prevent me from going on as many runs as I'd like. Keep reporting people like this, Metro. Eventually either Blizzard or raider.io will have to face the facts.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

First of all, there is no reporting. What this guy did is not against any rule. That's why its a problem. Past that, I agree with your thoughts and I do think people are buying stuff more than I initial did after talking to people in that gallywix discord. I am really surprised Blizzard is okay with that level of coordination towards sales. Its really hard to believe.

[@wowkid7784]

@@heythereguysitsMetro my GM had some very good insights when I expressed extreme frustration with the system.You could get rid of the raider.io mod. While not necessarily an outright ban or similar punishment, it makes it WAY harder for people to use the stats as a way of "vetting" players. Personally, I have 3 monitors, so it's not an issue for me. But it's probably safe to say that most players only have one. If you take the mod out of the equation, a player would have to alt-tab in order to "check io" on the website, rather than having it right in front of them. It wouldn't stop it all of it at once, but it would eventually stop because people aren't wanting to constantly alt-tab out to check. The other alternative is eliminating access to that kind of game information, meaning the only thing you can "mod" is the UI and that's it. They've done this sort of thing in the past, if you remember, by taking away access to character models so that you can no longer modify them directly(Read, assuming you were into that thing: no more nude mods) Basically it's a Catch 22 for blizzard. Do one thing, and you piss off one group of players, do the other and you piss off an entirely different group. Their go to is , for the moment at least, to do nothing and attempt to keep both sides as happy as is possible. It doesn't really seem as though there's one clearcut answer. Who knows?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@wowkid7784 The solution is just actually make the system better. Whether RaiderIO does that or Blizzard does that is left on the table.

[@iBaluu]

Yes, this guy is a dick and no, you not getting into keys has nothing to do with your responsibilitys outside of the game. It sure slows down your individual progress but it wont step you. Theres a saying that usually applies to everything in life. People that want something do find ways, but people that dont want it find execuses. Raider IO scores doesn't directly translate into skill HOWEVER especially on the higher end, id say 3,5k+ its accurate BUT it all comes down to how you process the stats you were given by raider io.

[@captainkribble7665]

Lmao I’m not sure why this poped up in my feed but still worth watching.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

A cautionary tale worth seeing even now. Ironically in Freehold too haha

[@MrTyphus18]

I still think M+ need a punish system for Player when they leave. Yes People can quit when they want but 4 people will most likely get fucked when they do. Maybe a version of -Ilvl of the Endchest Loot that you could get rid of if you play an extra key (for people who need to leave - but why would you queue if you have to leave i guess... ). If that doesnt work or change things, they could change the deplete system. If someone leaves (before completed key obvl.) they key does not -1 and you can go again in the 10/15 what ever with a new player. I had alot of key quitting people in Legion (EU player) most likely a DPS one (DH/Mage/Rogues) "streamer mdi meta charakter player" some of them need to get their head out of their ass "I play a meta class so I can do what ever i want" - but not in a pug group. great video keep it up - very excited for alpha content

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, the only problem is there would need to be a new system for groups that choose to disband so the game could differentiate between a "leaver" and just the first person of 5 people who decided to stop. There is a big difference, and it wouldn't be easy to make obvious without being partial to one type of play style.

[@MrTyphus18]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Maybe a system like ready check could help with this problem, all player need to vote yes to abandon the key (no negative will happen ( some ingame change like that) r.io could start tracking leaved keys so you could avoid such players (in that case it does not matter if you have to go or just quit you still leave the group with 4 people in it) although Im not sure how they track keys (at the start - finish or just the finish intime/not intime)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@MrTyphus18 Blizzard does not provide API for keys started. Only finished. That's the issue.

[@redlou3908]

its the kinda thing they can do cuz there in there safe space cuz if youd pull something like that in reallife ud get smacked

[@mitchmiyashita1328]

This is not the only time this mage has done this. He ruined our groups key in nearly the exact same way two pulls in.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

wow for real!? still happening all this time later wow

[@ChrisZestyJesty]

Metro, I've been watching you for a few years now, and I have mad respect for you as a fellow tank who primarily pugs. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Tank calls the shots. It's like going for a drive with your buddies, tank is the driver, healer is shotgun, and the rest of the passengers are dps and need to shut up and enjoy the ride.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha well said! Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way :D

[@ispear6337]

Everyone is participating in the key, everyone has a say on the strats end of discussion. Every single person in that group has a key role to play and if one person fucks it up it fucks up the whole dungeon. Everyone is important so everyone has a say, no single person in a group calls all the shots that's fucking retarded.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

​@@ispear6337 Not sure what your point is here. I totally agree that ideally everyone should agree with the route, but in the end its the tank's job. If the DPS disagree with the route, that's unfortunate, but its not up to them. I think Chris made a good analogy. The tank is the driver. Sure, the passenger should have a say in where they are going. That's just how group play works. The tank should WANT to make the group as comfortable as possible. But that's not what this is. This is about the passenger getting out and slashing the tires because the driver made a left instead of a right. The DPS can't force the tank to do their route, just like the Tank cant force the DPS to use their CDs a certain way. In an ideal world they all work together though for sure.

[@ChrisZestyJesty]

@@ispear6337 If you're tanking you have to know the route and the pulls, and unless you're running with the same group of people you're the only one in the group that knows how many mobs you can handle safely. If you know pulling all three packs at the start of freehold is a bad idea then you're not going to do it regardless of what the dps want for their cooldowns. In a pug situation its assumed that the tank knows what hes doing as they have the most responsibility in positioning the mobs and setting the pace. It's not a democracy. If all three dps vote to pull all three packs and the healer and tank vote against it, you do the pull and wipe because the tank cant handle it who's fault is it?

[@ChrisZestyJesty]

@@heythereguysitsMetro in a premade situation planning planning pulls with everyone involved in the planning process would be ideal, but we're talking about the pug life. That's not how it works. You grab your 4 random people and hope everyone knows the mechanics and pulls good numbers while you (as the tank) do your best to make sure everything goes smooth.

[@Fvvvvvvvr]

To your point at 23:55, I think the reason people buy keys is because of what you said at 23:00. They want to boost their score so they get invited to more things they want to do. It's a sad fact that groups will take the higher gear score or the higher R.IO because they think it means a better player. Regardless of whether or not the person buying keys is "better" than someone else, they get invited to more things so they get to play the game. Just what I think about the whole system that R.IO has brought to the game.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I'm sure some do that, but I don't think that's the majority. There are people who literally never do a key other than buy it. That kind of person I can't understand.

[@Fvvvvvvvr]

@@heythereguysitsMetro You're right, I agree that there are people who just buy everything to attain the feeling of "worthiness" in the game. Which I don't quite understand either. Well said on your part either way.

[@raguru1032]

My personal favourites from pugs is their inability to cleave evenly ever and then blame the tanks for mobs bolstering or getting a bit of healing from sanguine.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ha ya especially when I have a weak aura showing the player which target they should be on!

[@mlgitsux2bu199]

i dont like the io score in general i was trying to do a 15 atal' dazar and we had a 475 ilvl healer qued with 500 io and a 459 with a 1300 they brought in the lower geared healer and our run lasted till the first boss

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya either way, score is a near useless metric for pugging. Especially in that situation.

[@fulgrimrhyanni3239]

Tanks lead the way if you want to pick the pulls roll a tank.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That's the way I have always felt about the matter. I understand the concept of pulling around the DPS strengths, but my strengths matter much more first and foremost.

[@fulgrimrhyanni3239]

@@heythereguysitsMetro As far as pulling around DPS strengths/CDs. I believe that to more important in a static group and you have already agreed on paths and importantly you have voice chat. In a PUG and without voice chat they have to react to your path.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@fulgrimrhyanni3239 yup absolutely

[@CrazeyHaze]

Its an entitled mindset that has crept into WoW in the last few xpacs. He doesn't care, because 15 seconds after this, he found another group. People used have some decorum, and if they didn't, they got a bad reputation. People wouldn't take em. NOW, you don't even have to run with people on your server, and can pay for server xfers. There's no downside to him screwing you over.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

True, but this is much more than that. Not having decorum is one thing, but this is just being selfish. Why sign up to something meant to be difficult if this is the level of commitment you would put in?

[@CrazeyHaze]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I honestly believe a large portion of people that play this game now, unfortunately, don't want it to be difficult. Smh. I think like you said in the vid, not much we, the players, can do about it. Blizz would have to put their foot down and do something to deter this behavior.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@CrazeyHaze Ya, deep in this guy's brain is something that resists difficulty for sure. That's the only excuse for it. He and I live two different lives. I seek challenge daily in typically pointless ways. If I was dead set on doing something, and a tank did it the otherway, my brain loves that. A chance to improve and be tested in a way I didn't expect. He did the complete opposite. Backed out like a coward.

[@rmalaf]

raider.io in the end of the day, its just a number (the addon could track key leavers aswell) i really think that this kind of behaviour should be punished somehow

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

The addon can't track leavers atm, that's the issue.

[@rmalaf]

@@heythereguysitsMetro i think its because the addon feed on blizzard public API (i think anyone can access the data available on each character armory in a API way), idk but i think the solve for these issues need to pass on blizzard hands either way

[@brandon9689]

Players like this should be have a 72 hour block from doing any more keys. This is disgusting

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, if only there was a way to be sure he left for a selfish reason, I would agree. The game doesn't work that way atm though It doesn't matter though. He wouldn't care.

[@SmokerFace12]

Problem is how to make that work? If the first player that leaves get punished, then im sure people will abuse that and just kick people near the end or something to screw them with a limited ban. I honestly wouldnt know a proper solution.

[@brandon9689]

@@SmokerFace12 you're right it was more of an angered reply. Rather than a viable solution. Blizz and the more fortunate community will continue to say that the solution is to group with only familiars/guildies. It will remain that way unless it largely impacts their subscriber base.

[@SmokerFace12]

@@brandon9689 Didnt mean to put negative criticism to your comment, ive just put alot tought into this and im still arent able find a fitting solution to the problem

[@anders8461]

Lol what i hate is they say that you are 'wasting their time' or curses and complain when we wiped a few times (even when we wipe the 1st time because of some careless blunder). This is a game, you are suppose to waste time here lol. As a healer, i hate this mentality especially on a dps (no offence to all patient dps) Note: this is not even their key lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha ya, that would be even worse if he said that, especially in some one else's key

[@jamesdixon6903]

Basically he wanted to pop off on the first pack and flex and he didn’t get it. Typical toxic wow player these days! Drove me away from the game

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sorry to hear it bothers you so much. I have adapted to it by now

[@jamesdixon6903]

I have been playing since vanilla and only quit a few weeks ago. Personally I have never been a huge fan of timed content in WoW but could handle it to be best prepared for raids but the whole scene is just horrible. Being a shaman didn’t help either haha

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@jamesdixon6903 Gotcha. Sorry to hear that. No matter how good or bad, I still love the game and stuff like this makes me laugh more than would make me quit for sure.

[@Aywar77]

Some guy called me 1,7 k idiot, he is 1,8 k. And he isn't even full 100 points higher than me lmao.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, that granular level of difference between scores is absurd. Literally irrelevant.

[@TheKittyClink]

I'm 3k atm and I've played with 1.5ks who are just as good. Some of my team I'm running right now are 1.5 to 1.9 we have a blast. My guild is hella fun. I made a community on my server to run civil keys Sure we fuck up sometimes but other times we pushing 20+ fun!

[@RecoilMojo]

Can't wait to try my first mythics

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Good luck.

[@crispybaconmatters7160]

As a healer and dps, i just follow the tank. Tank dictates the route, no one else does.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, ideally everyone contributes, but at the end of the day Tank is the deciding factor.

[@cnotecashmoney8474]

I'm about to generalize a bit, but as an ex-Mythic raider (currently on break from Wow) the guilds in the US 300ish ranking have some of the most toxic players. They're full of players who are capable enough but not necessarily great so they bring a crazy amount of ego.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ironically, this is something we talked about some this week. Long story short, some one said that the players in that position now are only there because the former players holding that spot retired or moved on. Those players filling that position are now ones with bigger egos and less capacity for group play. They only care about themselves and that is facilitated by classes and output in general being easier and more straight forward than ever before. In the old days, that sort of selfishness would have led them to being in a sub par situation, but now the game doesn't punish it any more. I have seen a lot of that with people in that position now, who are genuinely skilled players, but don't have the social skills to make those around them better. In the old days, that type of person would be a B+ player at best, but now, they can do this sort of thing, hopping from social group to group just because they can use their 2 minute CD well.

[@kaykonio4204]

Classic fire mage player they want to have a route made for them bcz they wanna have max value from their combustion.Selfish horrible team players i always decline mages on my keys because of this.

[@alexanderstefanson7515]

Kaykonio It’s actually how you are supposed to play the dungeon, you pull around combustion

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Or they can play Frost and have their burst up for every pack. Its not "how you are supposed to play." Its how the top players play to maximize their keys. In no-voice pugs, you have limitations, and one of them is that level of coordination. Players who get frustrated by this should be frustrated with their own decisions. Access to damage is what makes Hunter, DH and Rogue Tier 1. Their CDs are always up, and you never have to do with this nonsense.

[@alexanderstefanson7515]

You pull around combustion because it is such a big cd that you use to focus down prio targets while pumping their ignites on other targets

[@alexanderstefanson7515]

Which makes the dungeon easier and if you are a good tank you SHOULD pull around it

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@alexanderstefanson7515 I agree, you should, but if you don't the DPS should not act like this. They are choosing to play the spec, and it is hard to play. The tank needs to be comfortable too. I am not going to pull 9 mobs on bolstering just because this dude thinks he can top the charts. The mobs will still be alive after his combust is over, and then I'll be forced to do the hard work. No thanks. Play Frost or better yet BM hunter. You can use your "burst" twice on some packs.

[@markurixjones1820]

would be funny if a individual does this on a regular base they get punished by taking away their weekly chest...imagine them getting a letter from blizzard in the box

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sadly Blizzard does not care about this sort of thing.

[@johnstrh1]

Yearly reminder that this mage is a terrible person

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha

[@nadeemzafer6911]

I've said it before in Legion and I'll say it again, deserters like this need a debuff for leaving a key so they can't do another one for a long while. Similar to people who leave Bgs.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Its different than BGs though, as you choose who you pick.

[@nadeemzafer6911]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Right, all the more frustrating. 😔😌

[@Synthesisz]

This happens way too often. Me and a friend are almost 3k score but we're frequently doing 15-16s and we invite ppl like him that are way lower and they leave the key after the first wipe. We're giving them a free carry/weekly/score and they start talking shit after the first death and leave :D We're 2 chesting the key with or without them but they are just stupid and have the ego of a 5k player.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right, its so confusing how some one in that position could have such a misplaced ego!

[@voodoomajinxz]

I'm only at around mythic 12 level right now cause I got back into wow recently, I had a tank leave after the first trash pull cause he died when he stood in all the AOE (that he should move out of)on underrot, sucks when people dont give it a chance

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sure does!

[@palador2557]

yesterday i joined a pug freehold. The plan was to pull all 3 mobs since we had a fire mage but NO he decides to leave because the lead didnt do a pull timer

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

rofl, had that happen earlier in the expansion too. A Demon Hunter who didn't get a pull timer and then left when he got the first mechanic on Rezan.

[@elimanator911]

People that do this waste so much time and effort and are a terrible type of player. I could personally give 2 shits about an IO score. The only reason for me to do m+ is to get gear for pvp because that, and raiding is pretty much the only way to be competitive.. and its a shame.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya it is a shame for sure

[@liliumsg]

There should be a penalty for leaving a key especially when you are at the last boss or for 1 wipe

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly there can't be, as there are plenty of groups that don't want to proceed after the same mistake. This video is the penalty.

[@pelvispresley6280]

@@heythereguysitsMetro What if a voting system was added? Where the group can vote on leaving the key, with the majority winning. If the majority wants to leave, it can happen without penalties. And for people who have urgent things they have to do, the penalty won't last long enough for them to feel the effect. However, i feel this would stop the so-called io-chasers from permaspamming and leaving more dungeons. The penalty could be something like a 2 hour ban from mythic+ content. Just a thought.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@pelvispresley6280 Ya, that could work but wont be happening. Would require them to completely rework how the game handles groups. The quickest solution is for RaiderIO to actually care about the repercussions of their score.

[@Netsuko]

Some people are just massive assholes. Once you get good gear it gets to some people’s heads that they now are more special. One of the reasons I miss realm communities. Back then you had a reputation to risk by pulling this shit.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya well one way or another this guy felt the community's power today.

[@ohstfu5613]

Man, he had the privilege of joining your key despite 15 others who signed up? Why did you grab him? Because he was a 2.1k rated Fire Mage vs maybe an 1800 rated BM Hunter? I find the higher you climb the more elitist jerks you get and that's not Blizzard or Raider.io's fault. Next time, grab the guy with a lower rating, especially if you're going to whine and bitch that you could've 4 manned it without the mage.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Wasn't my key, but if you are seriously suggesting that we made a mistake in who we invited you are a fool. No one should ever leave a key 10 seconds in. That's the problem. The fact that this dude did this and thought he could get away with it is not acceptable either, and squarely on RaiderIO's shoulders. Its time to man up and start keeping more stats on things that matter for pugging instead of just letting this mediocre scoring system dictate so much based on so little for a group of the game they never considered.

[@jaya2772]

It is pretty crazy how people view the flat out raider.io score just today i was in a group and a 2.5k player and 2.3k player signed up. Both bm hunters. 2.5k player had 20+ timed 15keys and the 2.3k player had 80+ timed 15keys both had a 16++ as there best run for KR. I invited the 2.3k player mainly due to the fact that he signed up first (thier ilvl was both 477) and the tank literally sad in /p chat why would you inv the shittier hunter and him and dps pal left group. So i pick up the other hunter with 2.5k i.o and wait 10 mins for a tank. At the end of the dung the 2.3k player performed better than all of us tbh. Just crazy how people go nuts over a few hundred points sometimes

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yes, that is the exact issue I was detailing! It is IRRELEVANT! That 200 score is likely in completely different dungeons and in completely different affixes. Why would anyone care about that? Its just a lack of comprehension, seemingly.

[@salt6293]

That mage is a waste of oxygen .....

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, and mana.

[@Mezer_PoE]

People like this deserve a week ban

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Agreed, just because there is clear evidence he does it all the time.

[@matze3596]

Hi, i play WoW for fun and relaxation after my day is over playing my main game, that is DOTA2. In DOTA 2 and i assume in most other Highly Competitive games this would be Punised by the System and is considered as "Grieving" Since m+ was made for somehow as a Competitive pve part WoW i never understood how this is possible. For example. In dota un play 5v5. If already 2 people of the same grp report a player for wrong behavior. (there are several choices to choose) he will Autmaticaly get a lower "Player Conduct" Score and on top a minim 5 games "low" prio game (wehre u are not allowed to play in Ranked games. If u leave the game u autmaticaly get 5 low Prio Games. This can raise even to a suspension of u account or a Ban depending on the severity and multitude of simiar actions. I mean if u think about it its kinda crazy, in wow u can go literally to an extreme with Grieving since there are no Q timers or Punisments for leaving a grp. Sp u join a gro wait for the to start and leave and u can Q up already for ur next victims...... this is insane. and he basically can do that all day every day with no punishment. U know how many Keys u can deplete on this way in a day? Just insane.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You have the right understanding of it, but the difference between this and Dota is that you form this group yourself, its not randomly matchmade for you. So Blizzard looks at it as our fault for building a group including this guy, but the way I see it is there is no way to predict this because RaiderIO doesn't care it happens either.

[@joeaustraliagato4173]

@OneAzerothTV Your biggest problem is running mythics or raiding with people from Tichondrius server. In my personal experiences and opinion this server attracts all the US rejects, and a server full of morons attracts more morons... I have personally had the same issues and mine actually seems to be with 92% of players from this server only. Just my two cents but love the vids man and keep up the good work :)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Gotcha, never had problems with this realm. There are WAY worse for sure. Thing is tichondrius used to be the go to PvP realm so may be that mentality is left over.

[@Drac_xiii]

you get punished for leaving a normal and heroic dungeon. You get locked out from doing dungeons for a certain amount of time.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yes, but that is because the group is made for you randomly. If they changed the way M+ worked they can emulate that, but I doubt they would.

[@christopherschoeppner3576]

I've found raider.io to be a real problem because I've been turned down to a +12 AD when I've completed a +13 AD in time, I was told my io was a joke when I signed up (was at 1050 at the time). I know I'm good enough to complete a +15 but cant get into a group by my io score isnt high enough. I've even been working to teach my friend how to do the awakened affix so he can progress further (hes not very good but he tries). With him we've managed to complete a +11 and that's with a tank who had no clue what hes doing half the time. Stuff like raider.io has imo just given toxic players a reason to be more toxic.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Its forced people into making bad decisions that they don't understand are bad. You can always just do your own key to prevent these problems though. As much as the scoring system sucks, don't feel entitled to other people's key. There will be a LOT of people signing up to most, and you can only take 3 DPS! So no matter your score, there is never any guarantee that you will be one of the three.

[@devinwilliamson15]

Best way to handle Mythic + Keys is Blizzard should copy from Diablo. After you upgrade your Greater Rift Keystone, it saves that rank and u can go from say 1-20 whenever u want. If you want to do 21 you need to complete 20 and now 1-21 is unlocked forever.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I heard about this recently and I am shocked that its not how this system works, frankly. Sounds perfect to me!

[@Kassizrippin]

As a fire mage in m+, I get why the dude left... It sucks to do low overall damage because 90% of our damage comes from combust. But that's really pathetic lmao. Should know by now how low keys work for mages. I can see him switching to Hunter since he probably cares so much about damage. Sorry about the key :(

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, sadly the spec is handcuffing pugs right now. Never seen it this bad. Even when Enhance Shaman could literally one-shot bosses I never heard people crying over us not allowing them to play their class so much.

[@alicankirici6302]

Blizzard should have a punishment system with fcking raider.i.o. Leaving middle of dungeon? BAM - 500 points and leave permanent deserter mark on character sheet. Since we "only" care raider score more then anything on this game, punishing player is only real solution.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Can't say I agree with your current assessment but I agree with the general comment. RaiderIO's negligence in fixing this issue is appalling really.

[@s0515033]

It's not just DPS Tanks and healers are assholes in M+ too. If anything, tanks are often worse people. Even when they are objectively wrong or bad they act like they are god's gift to the world and if something doesn't go their way, they will bail just as fast. Had a tank that refused to even let the healer get mana and just kept chain pulling saying he could "heal himself." He died, then left. Tanks often suffer from this kind of power complex.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Of course. What we are talking about here today though is DPS who think they are in charge of the route because they do good DPS.

[@MidnaLicious]

raiderio just causes toxicity and its ridiculous. you can learn a dungeon back to front but because you didnt do every dungeon however many times, youre seen as trash. i cant even count how many people with over 1000 score still dont know simple fights. they still die to lightning shield in tosl! its literally thorns its been a thing since classic. also because blizz blocked addons from doing it, they NEED to provide a solution to sort out WTS in group finder. how pathetic. maybe an easy WTS RUN spam block for trade chat too, so it’s even sort of useful again?? it’s really upsetting to mostly see wts messages wherever you look. i want to enable trade chat again but not till this is addressed.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, the run selling is getting REAL BAD. Like, so bad I have no idea how it can continue like this. Its legit killing public chat channels.

[@caio2677]

Unfortunately fire mages are "stars" right now, because of how they are necessary on mithic raid. I am 3k io mage, the thing is, as fire u want the tank to play around your CDs, but come on, u are on a pug, on a 15 Key, raging like that is pretty idiotic. I love to play fire but i play It to the Full with my team and on discord. What i do puging 12-16 (and i did it a lot because i need to Farm echoes) is do It as Frost, its even more effective and better for those Key lvls than fire.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well said! Frost is the best for that situation for sure.

[@shamanking0027]

It really sucks I try running keys on my enhancement shaman and people like well your IO isn’t high enough for 10s, I’m like umm I have 1300 I’m pretty sure that’s good to maybe a 14 maybe 15.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Best option is to do your own key!

[@HassChapman]

I agree. I pretty much only play DPS. Basically, I always follow the tanks. Those guys should be pulling the mobs and then we destroy. And leaving after one wipe is shit. The only reason to leave is if you realise this group is never going to complete the dungeon/raid.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I mean for 15 years the life of DPS in pugs was "I am at the mercy of the tank" and only just recently because of this nonsense with firemages are people all of a sudden thinking they are more important than the rest of the group combined.

[@luissimas1427]

Typical stuff. Usually the higher the rio, the faster they go. Never pick high rio ppl to 15's... they think they know everything and the irony is you can't even finish keystones. Ppl at mid range tend to be more focused on actually playing the game and finish stuff. Thats been my personal experience.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I mean, I would agree with you, but this dude is far from qualified. All of our alts were way higher than he was.

[@89190jprice]

WoW is just the most toxic community now and has changed for the worse. I hate the attitude of AT LEAST 50% of the players. Gone are the days of courtesy and helping people because it's the good thing to do.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I think that's a short sighted statement. Those days are gone because it's a 15 year old game. There are such an abundance of tools for the player to help themselves now it's almost rude to expect players to do so. We live in the age of information so be proactive! Either way, it's far from the worst game community. I have heard some really bad things about overwatch especially.

[@Lord_Mideon]

They should remove keys...Hear me out. You still have mythic+ but you the party leader can set the difficulty to 1 higher than you have actually completed. Like rifts in Diablo. You still get the challenge, you still get rewards. You can still catty people. But you don't need a physical key to run what you want to run.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I would like that quite a lot. Wouldn't work though. People would just ignore certain dungeons.

[@runiih]

15 is not a joke key. I think this kind of elitist mindset is what make M+ toxic as it is right now, is part of the problem that you are complaining about. Regarding the subject itself I agree with you about the DPS that wanna be the tank, is super annoying, is the kinda of ppl that wanna go in front of you to pull packs without consider the route saying that they are "helping".

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It is for this group.