800HP DIY Fuel System For N54 FLOW MAX+ Turbo Build

800HP DIY Fuel System For N54 FLOW MAX+ Turbo Build
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[@michaelcarter1836]

That was the best and most thorough explanation of the N54 fuel system I’ve heard. Much appreciated 👏🍻

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Nico_335i_DCT]

Very interesting guys! The port injection is also great to keep the intake valves clean. So that's a win-win. Dutch regards, Nico.

[@n54nz2]

Keep these vids pumpin man !!

[@humble1835]

Love to see the constant R&D! Refining the platform and trying new things! Big brain. :-)

[@1993kawasaki]

This is kinda cool, well laid out info in the video. Not many people video high HP fuel system installs!

[@Matt335i]

Very excited for this build! Should be a sweet one! Hope we’ll get to see how to connect that PI split second controller! There are basically no videos about it out there. Keep up the good work! Cheers from Canada

[@nickm2397]

such a sweet setup

[@DrCrazyAzz]

Great video!

[@dr4109]

I need to do this!! I’m trying to keep my car as a slow daily driver and you keep making me want to do more!! 🤦‍♂️ Thanks!!😁 I think you need Laura to help narrate in the shop also!! 🤔😁

[@igotaction]

You can custom code your EKP for E100 for the X1 in Brazil😉 it removes the voltage monitoring for the LPFP so you won't get a fuel pump warning with a 525 pulling too many amps. The 525 running off of Hobb's switch etc isn't monitored. Vehicular DIY did a really good video on custom coding on EKP.

[@ichoozjc]

Isn't that only on an ekpm3? Don't think you can do it on an ekpm2.

[@mulletor123]

Following. Lol. Who knows what coding this is?

[@igotaction]

@@ichoozjc pretty sure you are correct, I didn't know there were any EKPM2s still working😉 I hope Dave and Andrew are okay with me posting this link... kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4PGo5qOhJijkLs

[@igotaction]

@@mulletor123 link on this reply thread

[@StratoJohn]

Can't wait to see this develop!

[@bimmertec]

awesome 👌 waiting for next vedio hope make great power 🔋

[@emcovlogs_136]

compleeeeeeetley agree with the fuel pump thoughts! i have a single 525 walbro intank in a falcon atm makes 526kw on e85 .. surely triple 450s etc are not needed

[@xSourManGox]

Can u do a detailed video installing the fuel regulator and setting it up

[@friguy4444]

"I feel like there's place that sell products just to sell products. Not necessarily because they make your car run better.". I worked in sales for a few years and some of the people I worked for were absolutely without morals. So Amen Brother! LOL. Loving the build. More please.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

This that guarantee you never get a sponsor ship.

[@dylantrinderBMW]

Awesome video !!! P.I & flex fuel yes please...

[@Nikko2118]

How much psi fuel you set in yours fpr?

[@abelucious]

You better hit the video like button everyone, these guys like all of our comments.

[@plut00x]

Nearly prefect video love that it was a one take lol . Anyone have a link to the General Motors Flex sensor ?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

ebay.us/m1qXGl stocks were hard to find at the mo.

[@rkwhittington4000]

Hi Andrew, any guidance on a fuel system without one of your buddies ‘donating’ awesome stuff? I have a 11/06 build with 80k miles and just had to add the oil cooler, car is FBO, all other maintenance done. Think the order next is fuel, DAW turbos then XHP? Looking for guidance on fuel at 500ish wheel HP on E85. Thanks, love the channel!

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

For 500whp the setup in the 17t car would be more than adequate. Some old school ZeroTo60 viewing for your pleasure.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2O2kp-qetWkedk

[@I_Learned_a_Thing]

Can you guys use the reflex plus to do the port injection controlling and show us the programming of it?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

I probably would run the reflex if money was not object, but just cant afford one right now. Hense why most of this fuel system is second hand.

[@I_Learned_a_Thing]

@@ZeroTo60Tube ask them to sponsor you! They probably will since there are 0 videos on how to use it.

[@mulletor123]

I'm very interested in the regulator set up. I'm extremely confused though with your explanation and is their a reason why you would not just run 1 pipe on the pi rail, with i tee,d from main line ,using stock regulated pressure of the 74ish psi. And control it with injector duty rather than constantly varied fuel pressures ,this in turn being more likely to fluctuate randomly and have a lean situation than say constant pressure and digital control of injection.? I been watching you guys since day 1 I think before you even ever had any bigger turbos. I still haven't done mine. But bits are piling up.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Because the stock regulator can not see boost, it just makes 75psi (ish) in that fuel line. Which is fine if that 75psi isn't fighting any other pressure. But in the PI rail, because there is boost in the manifold, that 75psi is now fighting 30psi of boost. Which equates to only 45psi at the injectors. Duty cycle doesn't even come in to play. A rising rate reg will essentially run a much higher fuel pressure at the injectors to offset the boost.

[@mattk1627]

Thoughts on using helix overdrive and running port injection for big power? For the power I want to push I kinda need a fuel system capable of 1300-1400whp and don’t want to run a fuel cell. Thinking about using twin Walbro 535 pumps with helix overdrive to get there. Also need a return line! 😂

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Helix isn’t worth looking in to for big power. Pi if you want over 700hp.

[@Jason.cbr1000rr]

Hi, cool build man! Does your waterpump/terhmostat keep dying? Mine keeps dying and idk what to do now.. i had it fixed 3x in 1 month. As soon as i hear the radiator fan on full blast that is so loud it sounds like a 747 boeing....... what is wrong do you think? I have a e92 n52 engine.

[@ichoozjc]

Wonder if you have crap in your coolant system. Maybe broken bits of the impeller are causing the new pumps to stall and burn out?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Sorry for the late reply Jason, i did read this yesterday but didnt really have any useful info. Unfortunately after asking a few guys today, still not better off. Sorry i can't offer any useful info. If it was my car, i would get ista on it, then start checking sensor values to see if something is making the car think its a different temp that it actually is.

[@stenciljunkie]

Any reason why you don’t like to use JB4 for PI control? Also what are your thoughts on JB4 in general.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

So i am a bit of a JB4 fan boy, i have the JB4 and BMS PI on the 17t car. However i know the JB4 does add a level of complexity when tuning and flash only cars should be smoother. This is gonna be my test of the flash only option.

[@TML34]

So, basically you’re going to run a dedicated LPFP for the port injection with the AIC controlling it + Hobbs switch, yes? Is there a separate return line to the tank off the external fuel regulator? How does that part work to control the psi to the port fuel rail?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Yes, and i probably should have clarified the return line. Boost referenced fuel pressure regs run a return line for the bleed off. They basically have a diaphragm in them that opens and closes based off boost pressure. Almost like a wastegate. But the more boost, the more closed the return reg will be and more fuel is forced to stay in the rail.

[@TML34]

@@ZeroTo60Tube Should be mint. Looking forward to the build!

[@aprashad30]

You should record when you do the work on the car, that'd be great.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

I will try but time is a bit of a killer at the moment.

[@syncbalistic3672]

yo zero to 60, having some issues my 335i e90 barely has any power and it shutters when i take off from a stop in D or 2nd gear, even 1st.. then when I get to 3rd it doesn't have enough power to go past 80km/h.. I'm thinking injectors because my AFR's are pretty far apart from each bank.. For example, bank 1 is at 12.4 and bank 2 would be at 14.5 or 15.2 some times.. I did a waste gate rattle fix on MHD and put it to less rattle and the cat started to get COOKED lol and car was running super lean. Any ideas before I take it to the mechanic, cheers

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Have you started working through any codes?

[@syncbalistic3672]

@@ZeroTo60Tube Yeah the weird thing is, it hasn't thrown any codes, I've checked via MHD and also the Carly Adapter, both of them couldn't find codes. It's so weird

[@syncbalistic3672]

@@ZeroTo60Tube Just found out by a mechanic it's one of my secondary cats clogged up and causing no flow which is causing wack AFR's lol

[@88budz]

bro you live in Australia, its always hot!

[@phoenixlounge7656]

That's why big FMIC's are needed

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Thats not true. Once or twice a year its a little cool. But man with the rain the humidity was killer.

[@swagfest2k144]

Wow alot of info and alot of questions but my biggest question is if i upgrade my LPFP and dont have port injection or overdrive on my HPFP, how do people make 500-550 whp on a system like that if the maximum fuel pressure is still 75 psi? is that enough to make that kind of power?

[@lightmanek]

It's not about pressure per say as it is about flow. Single pump cannot max. out HPFP pump, meaning one will take more fuel than the other can pump lowering pressure in fuel line below 75psi and therefore allowing more fuel to be flown again. Once you max out HPFP, your line pressure will stay at 75psi. 6mm fuel lines are restrictive above around 700WHP from my experience and driving on 100psi does nothing good for DI injectors ... Setting goals for high LPFP pressure lowers flow of the pump, there are charts for each Walbro model showing relations.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Light manek is on the money. To simply further it takes a quantity of fuel to make power. Pressure essentially moves the fuel faster though the injectors. But a single walbro 460 is capable of flowing fuel to make 500whp. And the hpfp will do that to on a blend of ethanol. Probably not quite on full e85. Full e85 will make more power than a blend. But full e85 requires 20-30% more fuel than pump fuel.

[@InTuneGarage]

@@ZeroTo60Tube Youre exactly right! i have 400rwkw which is 536whp, a single walbro 460, running a blend of E40 on 17ts. Im maxing out my hpfp atm with flow (Low hpfp pressure at low rpm) and its causing issues which is why i said in the other comment ive been thinking about Spool overdriven or PI like you guys, So keen to see the results!

[@ram00sa00]

Hey I just have a weird thing going on. Bank 2 fuel trims junmps to 50 over 6000 and lower at higher gears . Any ideas .. fuel lpfpp and hpfp above 60 and 10

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Do the bank 2 AFRs correlate? Could be an O2 on the way out and the fuel system trying to offset the reading. Or a dodgey injector. The system averages the 3 cylinders in the bank, so one faulty injector could cause the others to be maxing out.

[@ram00sa00]

@@ZeroTo60Tube o2 reads 20 afrr trim max out

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

@@ram00sa00 20 is pretty much max accuracy on the sensors. So Off throttle 20 is fine, but under any load it should be much less than 20

[@ram00sa00]

@@ZeroTo60Tube so it's 20 and trims are 50 after 6k rpm. What do you think the problem is

[@keeganadams3717]

Can you not just take the stock regulator out completely and just use a return style setup with the regulator before the hpfp and PI rail or will the boost pressure still cause a low fuel pressure situation?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Yes absolutely. But the custom hat solutions to delete the factory reg are expensive. You could just block the holes i guess and run all the lines from the pump side. Then again 6an line sized holes might be cutting it fine power wise.

[@keeganadams3717]

@@ZeroTo60Tube fuel it actually has a video on deleting the stock fpr and it’s fairly simple i have an ls swapped e90 that was an n54 and a lot of the ls swap guys run the stock line up till 700/800whp range idk if deleting the stock regulator would let you just use one main fuel line feeding a regulator in the engine bay before the PI and hpfp tho basically so you don’t have to run the secondary fuel line just a return to the pump

[@marqdre6529]

Can I get the part number for the ethanol sensor every aftermarket is back ordered. I’d rather buy it from gmc.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

This is the one i ordered. ebay.us/m1qXGl

[@Noneneon]

I got confused. Is the secondary fuel pump fueling both the stock HPFP and the port injection?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Yes. but only activates under boost. The return fuel reg is running all the time, but under boost will basically close off and increase fuel pressure in the rail.

[@Noneneon]

@@ZeroTo60Tube Thanks!

[@BFlood4471]

Moving to PI, I wonder how well that would clean the valves, on its own, without Walnut blasting..

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

In theory it helps, however in reality, unless you drive everywhere at over 20psi, the port injection isn't doing much. The amount of run time the engine has on boost is a very small percentage.

[@InTuneGarage]

Looking beautiful guys! Very very keen to see the end results of this! :D

[@InTuneGarage]

Ive been looking to go Helix spool overdriven HPFP for a while now (my power goals are about 450-475rwkw) Since im at 400rwkw with E40 atm i just wanted to be able to run full e85 over 425-450rwkw. This has given me some second thoughts, time for some more research, I love these cars so much but theres so much information and opinions for everything!

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

There are a lot of tuners out there that recommend the overdrives. I think they are fairly easy for the guys to dial in on a remote tune which is why they like them. Compared to a port injected setup where the PI is controlled by a completely seperate controller and no link to MHD, the tuner doesnt have the direct feedback in the logs. I haven't seen the results you are chasing with overdrive, well not on a car thats lasted. A lot of guys switched to the overdrives late 2019 early 2020 and a lot of those guys had the overdrives up for sale shortly after and port injection back on. This also happened 4 years ago when VTT were selling the double barrel shot gun systems. Same concept as the helix (extra pressure in your fuel rail) but the shot gun was probably a better system using two pumps (one over driven for high load), this also didnt put strain or harmonics on the timing chain (helix cars sound broken on start up). But with the VTTs, a year goes by, the marketing hype dies down and people got rid of the shot gun systems. I also heard a rumour that the cars running 700+whp on the double barrel shot guns where going through index 12 injectors faster than oil filters.... but this may just be a rumour. You have such a small time frame to inject fuel when its DI, there is just no way of getting enough fuel in the cylinder for decent power.

[@InTuneGarage]

@@ZeroTo60Tube thanks for the reply man! It’s very detailed and helped me to understand more, hmm I have Tim Murray tuning my car and his pretty reputable and a solid whisperer of these! So I’ll have a word to him and see what he recommends after I ask more questions, I think what plays a factor also in people’s decision is the cost of PI vs Overdrive, it’s a big difference so probably why people tend to do the overdrive. After your reply and the video tho I think it’s port injection for me because let’s be honest, no matter how much power you make, whatever it is, you eventually get bored of it and want more. And I’m thinking that if I buy the overdrive will it be enough for future goals when I am bored? Probably not. Might have to check out the zero to 60 store or find someone moving on their PI system, seen a complete one for sale in the 135i/335i group last week for 4.5k with everything I think? Might also look into sourcing everything myself and buying the intake and rail from you guys. Decisions decisions on the hunt for power!

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

@@InTuneGarage Based on what you have said PI all day long. Plus your car wont sound broken on cold start..... and i know tuners say they work around that start up rattle, but in person it still sounds like you have just broken a rocker or something. Even if you run a basic PI setup like my 17t car, you will have parts you can use again later on as you upgrade. The PI setup on my 17t car was $900 second hand all up and produces 5.75 100-200 times. I know this will annoy some tuners, but chase dragy numbers, not power numbers. It's way harder to achieve them and takes a tuner with a lot of knowledge to make a car move down the street well, not just make power on a dyno.

[@InTuneGarage]

@@ZeroTo60Tube agreed! I’ll be getting some 100/200 base times in the next week when it arrives and go from there! Wow $900? I need that hookup! Haha if you ever rip it out send me a message hahaha! Thanks for the replies guys! All the best!

[@importjdmexport3119]

Port injection is definitely the move I heard bad story’s with the helix overdrive and doesn’t last long and kills the high pressure way too fast

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Pros and cons to both i guess. But a well setup pi system works. Been on N54s since like 2013 and its still here. All the other methods pop up, the market hype dies out and people go back to PI.

[@importjdmexport3119]

@@ZeroTo60Tube yeah heard Port injection is definitely better no more walnut blasting too 😉

[@Richard-ck5zk]

Wait, I haven't watched your vids in a while, is that my old car?! I thought you were going to get rid of it?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

It’s very hard to sell an n54. What we are doing instead is spending about 30k on it…. Yolo

[@Richard-ck5zk]

@@ZeroTo60Tube haha good stuff! Will have to keep tabs again and see where it goes!

[@Mr16bit]

DI is far and away better than port injection in every way other than for cleaning intake ports and valves. The issue with it is its very application specific and has less scope to be easily and cheaply scaled like port injection does. Having both is best for OE performance cars IMO. And yes if you were clean sheet building a race car outside of top level motorsport that allows it within regulations most would use port injection only. But with regulations permitting and budget allowing top level motorsport uses DI for a reason.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

While di is more efficient and on paper seems great. Even mclaren can’t make it work for performance. What we are doing with these N54s is well beyond the scope of what a di injector can reliably handle. I see zero benefit at our level. Fuel economy is of no concern. I feel a lot of people get caught up in the theory and bs marketing hype we have access to from manufacturers. Where the tuners, the guys who actually make power, whether they are on a budget like us or a drag team with millions to waste on development. If the rules don’t force di, people are not interested in it. Well the people that produce results anyway.

[@motodigitalvideo]

Good thing about PI is it provides the extra fuel only when you need it so with the help of a flex tune, you can go from essentially stock power daily driver with perfect manners using DI only to 600+ whp by putting in a tank of full e85 and using the PI to pump in the extra fuel all without putting any additional strain on the factory fuel system.

[@alexwalsh31]

Can you use port injection of meth injection on a N53 330i?????????????

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

You could, but it would only be beneficial if you have boost. And boost on a N53 is probably a waste of time.

[@painttheshit3]

Wouldnt it be nicer too run a standalone ecu like maxxecu and then ditch the di And run big injectors?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Absolutely! End game with the DCT car. Unfortunately the maxx can't run the ZF6 currently, so with out going to a standalone trans controller, the DME is staying for now.

[@cornfedboost]

Nothing wrong with batch fire at all.. just not as efficient as sequential is... be good to see this thing make some numbers 😊

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Be careful you might upset the BMW crowd with that first hand experience on tuning engines.... hehe.

[@cornfedboost]

@@ZeroTo60Tube lol nah thats what my cars for 😁😉

[@nothsim]

20 minute video in 13 mins. Wow.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

I actually said 12 mins....

[@gjonatonkadrijaj4159]

Is there a link for these things ? Greeting from germany

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

I never did referal links for these as pricing seems to vary so much between brands. You really need to do a quick search and see whats best to you.

[@tgrghostrider]

😆

[@tighematthew]

So pretty much the same set up as tims car was...

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Apart from Tim didn’t have the reg. So he would have had that 30-35psi fuel pressure in the tail.

[@tighematthew]

@@ZeroTo60Tube interesting 🤔