ZSS: EVERYTHING About Forward Smash [SSBU]

A super-in-depth guide to Zero Suit Samus' Forward Smash and why you should never use it. Sorry. "Zed-ess-ess"
Support me on Patreon: / oriosmash
Follow me on Twitter: / stawbs_orio
Music
"Prologue (feat. Julie Elven)" - Horizon Zero Dawn (Original Soundtrack) - Joris de Man
"Aloy's Theme (feat. Julie Elven)" - Horizon Zero Dawn (Original Soundtrack) - Joris de Man

[@ErhuMaster]

"ZSS's forward smash, is a completely useless move" *This video in a nut shell*

[@bclaytz]

Hey man do you play from / in Korea? How is the online play for you? I often get terrible lag spikes :(

[@ErhuMaster]

​@@bclaytz​ Same in Korea. Even if I use LAN to play SSBU, it sometimes too laggy almost impossible to play ㅠㅠ

[@bclaytz]

@@ErhuMaster Okay not just my internet then, was curious (I'm playing from Korea too). Thanks for the quick reply ^^

[@bclaytz]

@Jangboo Lee Hey Jangboo! Yeah, most definitely down for that. How often do you play? And how do we organise to play together lol?

[@bos9824]

He didn't talk about angling the forward smash up or down

[@Arcterran]

Whelp, more reason to break that habit! Knew it was bad but not THIS bad

[@justinwams4848]

Make a "EVERYTHING About ZSS ladder combos" video! Love the video!

[@Swux]

What an underrated youtuber, wow

[@warturtle6]

Swux seriously

[@Swux]

DustinMenez mhm

[@BeynT.]

Swux sorry but what does a Fortnite player here? (Please don’t hate)

[@alexfrasca673]

as a ZSS main I really appreciate your videos. someday I hope to achieve your level. Looking forward to more of this awesome content!

[@travisstroman-spaniel6091]

Same tho

[@5-Volt]

I hope you do a video on Plasma Whip. I thought you were going to talk about in this.. because I use it in a lot a situations where you might use F-Smash. That may be a bad habit though.. I just feel like it's such a versatile move. If you master the spacing of side-B it's utility is incredible. I really hope to see a video about it by you because you're insight on ZSS is so helpful. 👍

[@warturtle6]

Really love that you’re going through a character and being as thorough as possible. Instead of just a 10 minute run down, you’re giving the ultimate guide to ZSS. Keep it up man, these videos have helped me improve a lot.

[@ryankyungsoocho4291]

Killed it again. So thorough and helpful! I’ve been recently having trouble setting up some combos in a live situation; so it would be cool to see a guide on utilizing combos or seeing opportunities for them in he future. Thanks again!

[@GodfreyEnjoyer1]

I think ZSS is a very hard character to pick up and learn/master. Some say Intermediate but i think she is hard to play. Very fun to play and good learning curve. Ty for the video :D

[@Goosmuch]

The opening line was beautiful! "But don't worry, I'm going to show you why." I must say, I find your videos to be excellent! Well made, informative and comfortable to watch, and going through one move in detail seems to me to be a missing piece for a game like SSB. Keep it up, I've already decided to main her now. And I'm sorry, but I suck so much I need a video breakdown of all the moves!

[@azurecerulean1279]

I really like these style of video. Covering a single move yet having so much to say. I like the idea of only talking about one move in a whole video.

[@ElliottDent]

Link in the description? More like Link in the blastzone.

[@franciss9856]

Love the Horizon Zero Dawn soundtrack

[@KodakKid33]

I absolutely love your guides on ZSS, just earlier today I was trying to convince some friends that this move is useless lol they were saying they think it's alright, will link this to them. Can't wait to see more guides from you! Would love to see one on zair, it's a lot different from smash 4 and I find myself whiffing combos from it a lot.

[@Howl_3DN]

Can we include plasma whip in that zair vid....🤗

[@kevocado1]

This series has been really helpful for me as a zss main. Great work! Hope you continue to make more videos like this!

[@relaxedvd8592]

I’m really glad I discovered this channel. Such great content

[@ItsShatter]

That HZD theme song though

[@DistortedEmerald]

Been maining ZSS since 4, but i've learned so much thanks to you.

[@Slytzel]

Very detailed, quality work!

[@ViscountJimmy]

Excellent video! Love that you did the diligence with the demonstration despite its uselessness. Very educational

[@C-mereSSBU]

Nobody ever talks about the different hight options for fsmash. It honestly comes in handy against short characters like Pichu when short hop moves are too risky.

[@grimtermina5079]

I've hated her Fsmash since 4. I wish they brought back her Brawl fSmash, it had way more range, opponents wouldn't fall out o it, and I think it was stronger too. Plus it just looked cooler lol

[@Unnkxn0wn]

True looks way more satisfying to hit lol

[@tonyjabraham4676]

Love the attention to detail, frame data, and proper English I can understand! ^_^ And yes, all problems get worse with rage >_

[@LxZLink]

What an amazing video, amazing job mate!

[@silvesta5027]

I hear that Horizon Zero Dawn in the background :D

[@raz3572]

I was in a character crisis not knowing I who I wanted to play but knowing I wanted a speedy character. I was looking around when I found your videos showing how great ZSS is as a character. She’s really hard to play but she is worth every second when you figure out her play style and her SHOW-STOPPING spikes. I gave my friendsa run for their money after a few games where he said, “Raz, how do you know how to play this character, you don’t have a switch”? I replied with a small smirk, and thinking about you and your videos. Thank you 😊.

[@nicholaschung8207]

IVEE BEEN WAITINGG

[@kyleliu2162]

First thank you for the amazing videos, helped a lot with learning ZSS (she is one of my favourite characters because of you). Secondly, thank you for using Aloy's Theme from Horizon Zero Dawn (hehe, Zero puns), I recently finished that game and it is one of the best games I've ever played. Don't use F-Smash, got it, been using it too much and noticed it's just weak and recovers poorly. Still can't get flip kick spikes down though, so incredibly difficult.

[@joekenneally1844]

These zss vids are the best on the internet

[@parsons318]

Amazing video again

[@barryanagrande1830]

Aloy's Theme tho😍😍 its been my Alarm since i first played HZD. BEAUTIFUL.

[@STAWBsOrio]

Good alarm choice 👌

[@cutesycat4]

Really informative!

[@seolifpsb7924]

Very nice video ! Your contents are really of good quality ! (Don't worry, I say Zed ess ess too xD)

[@robertandruw7647]

Great tutorial.

[@lacrymouprising5295]

Nice and pleasant vidéo good job. I still have something to learn so it’s gone and with the smile. ;)

[@IRahkuBz]

would love to see videos covering her bad MUs.

[@khanghuynh8582]

I have seen Marss successfully utilize it a few times in his competitive matches. Not always reliable, but it can send opponents into low angles at high percent. Then again he does play on a different level so maybe he can get away with picking those kind of options.

[@STAWBsOrio]

This video is more a theoretical breakdown of the move. Yes, it is possible to do stuff with Forward Smash, but there is no situation as far as I can see where another move wouldn’t work better. Marss may use forward smash sometimes to good effect, but in all of those situations he *could* have used another move to better effect.

[@filippotesta1488]

Amazing video, would be great to hear you talk about her side b

[@dankim3716]

Everyone here is forgetting that fsmash is a powerful mix up and read tool. Both her grounded upsmash and upb lack the range/requires a harder read and less range than fsmash can hit at. Fsmash is still an excellent as a quick tech role punish option (you can spot the roll and with proper reaction timing can fsmash). Her kit requires all tools be used, and a grab punish/plasma whip punish can reach the same ranges with less end lag, but fsmash has more knockback at higher % to have a better advantage state or kill possibility.

[@STAWBsOrio]

Did you watch the video

[@dankim3716]

@@STAWBsOrio Yeah I did, but everyone commenting seems to say that fsmash is dumb.

[@originalph00tbag]

I wasn't even aware ZSS had ever had a reason to use her fsmash.

[@Arlo5.13]

That horizon zero dawn music though 👌

[@Unnkxn0wn]

I miss zss f smash from brawl where she just swings the whip but it’s faster than side b

[@oliverv2848]

Thank you for this. My sister wont stop fsmashing on zss and it is really annoying me. I will send this to her

[@mentlegentlemen7409]

My boy Marss begs to differ

[@tysmothers]

Really appreciate the time you put into to these videos, they're really helpful. Do you think you can make a video for the zss zair. I'm having trouble getting combos going with it

[@STAWBsOrio]

Next video will be this weekend, but after that I will need to have a break for a while! I may do a video on zair at some point.

[@matthewkim812]

Don’t forget about the hitbox

[@zackarybain]

I need a video on Plasma Whip!!

[@theomarcot4164]

Can you explain us the neutral of zss

[@hamtaro1234]

Are you able to make a video on how to practice the flip kick meteor? I can't quite get the same set-up the way to do for meteors. My opponent seems to stay at really high percent before I can really kill them.

[@STAWBsOrio]

I’d have to think carefully about that one because I don’t really know myself lol. Just kind of get a feel for it from playing her a lot. Practicing specific confirms as shown in my Flip Jump/Kick video on various characters should help.

[@nicholascarela6384]

What’s the music called

[@JaneViolet_]

What about as a shield break or rest punish? Do you just want to fully charge dsmash --> boost kick?

[@STAWBsOrio]

In the case of a shield break or missed rest, there are so many better things you can set up. E.g. paralyser -> falling fair 1 + 2 -> FJK will kill almost every character at 10-20% from the centre of the stage.

[@Vahn421]

ONE viable use for forward smash. If you flip jump ground an opponent under a ledge on a level like battlefield and land on the above ledge right away, you can charge an F smash and intercept them as they pop out of the ground for a kill. This works around the 70-90% range depending on how heavy they are. It's VERY circumstantial, hard to pull off and risky, but I've done it. (It's also a clip worthy kill.)

[@STAWBsOrio]

That sounds like a really hype clip, but there are several better things you could do that would be easier and more effective. E.g. you could drop down and hit the first hit of fair to knock them out of the bury and true combo into the FJK spike. It’s faster, giving your opponent less time to mash out, and you don’t have to time it perfectly as they pop out. Will also KO sooner :-/

[@Vahn421]

@@STAWBsOrio Hmm... I wonder if that would be the case in every circumstance. I never thought of that before!

[@Puckett.]

Usually in that situation which happens usually every game for me I'll just sit on the platform charging my upsmash and just release once they pop out. If he gets fully charged it sometimes can kill around 80% with no rage and most or fully charged. Also much easier to catch them popping out with upsmash then getting perfect timing on fsmash. Don't know what the window would be but on an average sized character I'd imagine hitting fsmash in that scenario requires getting about a 5 to 8 frame window correct. Where as upsmash would probably be closer to a full 90 frames since the move last so long.

[@thedead073]

Makes more sense to start charging Usmash

[@slightburn_]

Hey, would you suggest I switch my C stick to tilt moves instead of smash moves? (Handheld switch)

[@STAWBsOrio]

It’s entirely a matter of preference. I personally prefer C stick set to tilt because I find it relatively easy to do smashes without it, and Tilt C Stick lets you much more easily do things like running down tilt.

[@Unnkxn0wn]

I miss her old fsmash in brawl where she just uses the whip to slash opponents.

[@HearteartHdragon]

Would it be better to use Smash C stick vs Tilt C stick? Im currently using Tilt c stick because it's better for most other characters, but I feel Smash would be a lot better for easier up and down smashes.

[@STAWBsOrio]

It’s entirely personal preference. I prefer tilt stick with ZSS but there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Nairo went the whole of smash 4 using default controls sooooo... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@Ryan_Day]

Zed ess ess LOL love it!

[@oliverv2848]

its ZSS but in Australia when the say the letter 'Z' they pronounce it as "zed"

[@sergeyzakharov7326]

When you do short hop Nair you do short hop->falling n-air->fast fall or short hop->fast fall->n-air? Also would love to see video about n-air and n-air setups

[@STAWBsOrio]

Short hop -> nair -> fastfall. There’s an animation of the button presses in my beginner’s guide.

[@vichoa4280]

In air combos! Please, your de best zzs in the world!

[@STAWBsOrio]

Whatever you say 😂

[@zsoliddanys1083]

They should give that move a huge buff, its punishable enough to deserve it.

[@STAWBsOrio]

Perhaps in patch 3.0 this video will be redundant, but I see that as a win-win 🙃

[@Half-Hero]

Is this setup/kill confirm video hidden behind an anti FSmash guide?

[@STAWBsOrio]

👀

[@drakeisola9038]

USMASH FTW

[@chaoticneutral1090]

dude thanks for speaking the truth i was so tilt about this useless move and then THEY NERVED IT IN 2.0 LIKE WHY so i gave up on zss maining since i last saw your guide and chose greninja instead sorry Orio will stay subbed tho :P

[@STAWBsOrio]

You’ve broken my heart. JK Gekkouga is sick.

[@chaoticneutral1090]

@@STAWBsOrio :D

[@dubudub876]

the only time i can imagine using it is as a move to keep better kill moves fresh/unstale or as a DI mixup (assuming my opponent has reactions of a slug)

[@lacrymouprising5295]

All these vidéos will be my ASMR of training (or training ASMR ❓ i don’t know 😅)

[@theomorrison1099]

I know this video was uploaded a long time ago, and no one will see this comment, but what if you 2 frame with down smash? Isn’t forward smash the best option (other than down air)?

[@STAWBsOrio]

Definitely forward air, boost kick and flip kick are all better options in this situation. Forward air is safer and more reliable, flip kick and boost kick both KO much earlier.

[@theomorrison1099]

STAWBs Orio I guess I meant that it’s a more reliable option to kill a lot of the time if you don’t want to mess up

[@STAWBsOrio]

It might be, but you might even still miss the sweet spot of the forward smash. Even so, I strive for the optimal whether or not it’s more difficult 🙃

[@bubble4072]

I use it to don´t stale Boostkick oder other K.O moves.

[@sambest9330]

Plz make a video of combos at different percentages.

[@STAWBsOrio]

I believe there are several other videos covering basic ZSS combos at different percentages? LordDramane and Space23 both did one. I think Choco did one too, although some of the info is inaccurate because they were fairly early.

[@2smart3guys]

side B now

[@jakef7717]

ive personally gotten into the habit of using fsmash for hard reads/kills, ill try to reduce that habit though ://

[@indigo4740]

...dang now they need to buff forward smash

[@pav8719]

If boost kick and up smash are stale, as I use them often- I find down smash to slightly charged forward smash effective

[@STAWBsOrio]

That is true, perhaps not boost kick, but up smash in particular might be stale. A good point 👌. Still, I doubt up smash would ever be staled by more than one time, and upon testing that only changes Link’s KO percentage from 134% to 138% - not a big difference considering the slightest increase in distance from the ledge will make f smash KO later still.

[@pav8719]

True. I'm also not that good, and still struggle with the boost kick startup hitbox nerf. Sometimes fsmash has a more reliable scoop.. I get the sweet spot almost time

[@kallocarina8879]

Everything about down air pplleeeaaaasseee

[@loneskum]

Where did ya go.. more vids 😁

[@STAWBsOrio]

Very soon, don’t worry. And it will be the best ever, by far 🙃

[@loneskum]

@@STAWBsOrio great.. I keep getting my 3 best characters to about 200k below elite and then lose some last hit games.. i rewatched the flip kick video over n over trained it.. although trying to implement what I learn in game might short term have negative effects I know its what I've been missing to take the next step.. love your work can't wait.

[@aizenio]

So forward smash just gets aired

[@chriscicala324]

Me and my friends meme about this move. Like oh yah lets nerf zss f smash.

[@themorbidkid187]

Yeah I been maining ZSS since SSBU day 1. FS used to be better cuz the sweet spot used to always land on the 2nd hit no matter how u landed it but sadly they patched it to where now it requires you to hit with the flame part of her boots to get max damage making the move pretty useless. Before the patch u could ground someone and use FS well tilting it downward and it would launch ppl far and low so even if it didnt kill right away characters with bad recovery made it impossible for them to make it back to stage which was pretty funny to watch lul. Still don't understand why they nerfed it :(

[@STAWBsOrio]

Everything in this video also assumes you even manage to hit the sweet spot. Even then it’s still pretty useless :-/

[@Lilhajxjk274]

Give us brawl f smash with sm4sh f smash strength.

[@notbigbigman]

Pls use this move more.

[@STAWBsOrio]

I am disinclined to acquiesce your request.

[@lilwonton9267]

Move status ZSS SUX

[@spiralanimations7736]

The thumbnail tho

[@STAWBsOrio]

Ye it’s not great. This was before I got help from an amazing artist.

[@travisstroman-spaniel6091]

So her worst attack, forward smash

[@rockmonkey11100]

i keep watching these videos but im so bad at zss

[@STAWBsOrio]

Nah you’re not, I believe in you ❤️

[@Liquidatonator]

Haha nice try friend but I will use it anyway because I think the fsmash looks awesome. Still I will be a little sad everytime I use it after this video :(

[@STAWBsOrio]

😔

[@skim_milf_latte]

Zed Suit Samus has a better ring to it.

[@Unimportant]

So what you're saying is Forward Smash is only there to bait people into thinking you're worse than you really are and then catching them with better option once you've primed them.

[@STAWBsOrio]

My goodness... you’re right. Advanced strats.

[@nousername191]

This guy/gal with the conditioning

[@Vixen17399]

DO NAIR!!!!

[@ThoA45]

I like it just to send the opponent into mid/low level of the stage. But it's definitely not a great smash.

[@STAWBsOrio]

It does do the job for that, but I can’t see why you would use it instead of something else like forward tilt or forward throw.

[@zerocopy8407]

Its kind of funny cause I use it all the time. Not anymore I guess.

[@STAWBsOrio]

I’m sorry.

[@Shmossis]

Tl:dw. Don't.

[@thedead073]

Lol you guys use smash attacks?

[@sacha5122]

But Marss forward smashes.

[@STAWBsOrio]

You are free to use your own discretion, but these are the facts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@jeilastnamejei5831]

Zss sux