Zuma vs Mbeki: the epic chess game that defined South Africa, from ANC to MK Party

In today’s episode, we dive deep into history. We explore the epic relationship between former presidents Mbeki and Zuma, from the earlier detention together in Eswatini to their rivalry in the ranks of the ANC and Zuma’s uktimare support of thd MK Party.
📚 Today’s Episode Features:
1. Partnership of Mbeki and Zuma
2. Rivalry of Mbeki and Zuma
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_______
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:38 - Early life
00:08:55 - Partnership
00:19:49 - Rivalry
_______
Credits:
Director: Bongani Nkosi
Producer: Oratile Kekana
Production Manager: Noluthando Mkhize
DOP and Editor: Bongani Nkosi
2nd camera operator and assistant editor: Lesego Kgobe
Photographer: Bongani Nkosi
Sound: Kgothatso Senne
Social Media Manager: Oratile Kekana
About me: Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh is an author, scholar and founder of the Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh Xperience (SMWX), a digital, youth-centred current affairs platform. He holds a DPhil in International Relations from the University of Oxford and is a Lecturer in International Relations at Wits.

[@alexemergineer3202]

Sizwe. Can you bring Moeletsi Mbeki. To talk about SA economic history and what should happen from 2024 going forward. ❤❤

[@tebohotokullo4610]

That's a great idea alex

[@alexandernyamazana4795]

That one is always putting the blame on the black elite who we all agree are a problem, yet we all know where the root of the problem is and he fails to articulate that while concentrating on the black bourgeoisie.

[@roeteroestof3896]

Why not both Zuma and Mbeki TOGETHER

[@HamandisheMpofu]

His a bitter economist. Very confusing individual that 1. 🤣

[@shaistamohammed625]

Correct both can work together with ❤❤❤❤❤

[@tholwanabutelezi8954]

The president Mbeki and deputy president Zuma era was for real the golden era in South Africa.

[@gidmosia7065]

The true take over of blacks from whites regime

[@nathanielkgobe427]

True, this was really a golden era were two old political friends worked together, everything flourished and went quet well, until the white man very cunningly intervened using one of the most dangerous figure that hates his fellow Safricans with passion and continues the agenda of the enemy, and now ALL SOUTH AFRICANS ARE DYING FROM HUNGER, AND RENDERED THE WHOLE SAFRICA A DEN OF ALL SORTS OF CRIMINALITY, CRY AFRICA CRY 😭😭😭

[@manimavuso]

I want to take this opportunity to appreciate and pay heed toward Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh. Great job as always

[@user-hk3vk1pl5n]

This is the decolonization of education, I'm talking about. We are not saying we don't want to learn about WW2 etc., but to Southern Africans especially, these lessons are of the essence. Tanki Sizwe 👊Carry on my Guy 💪

[@bejesikelela74]

Can you do where Zuma And Malema work together swiping out Mbeki and where Malema turned his back against Zuma

[@williemarthinus9619]

Excellent piece of SA history.

[@Coco-kw3iv]

Thank you very much Sizwe. How I wish these two great political fathers could come together and do what is right for the love of the people and leave us with a beautiful legacy for the last chapter...

[@kwezilomsosonkwala4933]

Thank you Doc. It would be lovely to have another episode about the relationship between Uncle Ranko (Cyril Ramaphosa) and Thabo Mbeki, particularly considering the recent tensions between them. Over the past two years, Thabo Mbeki has been critical of Ramaphosa's leadership, even going so far as to label him and others as "thieves." Despite Mbeki's vocal criticisms, Ramaphosa seems to maintain a more restrained approach, perhaps opting to avoid direct confrontation with Mbeki and refraining from engaging in the strong views expressed against him. These dynmics I, are significant, especially given the history between the two men. Notably, Ramaphosa has been mentioned twice in your story: once when he replaced Mbeki, and another time when Mbeki was selected instead of him to be president. These instances suggest a complex dynamic between the two leaders, characterized by a deep-seated rivalry.

[@gidmosia7065]

Rama has been a white man s finger man from the time he has been in the trade unions struggle and the formation of cosatu/num puppet stunts an interesting figure adding the codesa fiasco Rama to date has been a big obstacle in the revolution

[@donovancalvinmeyer1837]

That would be interesting but is there rivalry or perceive rivalry , did Mbeki label Ramaphoso a "thieve " or was he not reffering to local leaders ?

[@kwezilomsosonkwala4933]

Go watch the videos and analyze them yourself; that's what I gathered from watching and analyzing the videos. Secondly, it is crucial to note that most often when we speak, we speak from a social constructionism realm, meaning that we take knowledge and make sense of it within the context of social interactions and shared understandings. Then, I stated 'this suggests,' acknowledging the possibility that this might not be the fact, rather, solely my own interpretation of the sdynamics between the two individuals. Thank you

[@menzimabuza3304]

@@kwezilomsosonkwala4933You are correct there is a deep seated rivalry between Mbeki and Ramaphosa. In fact Mbeki and Zuma can co-exist but when you bring Ramaphosa into the mix Mbeki and Zuma can stand together. Mbeki had work well with Oliver Tambo. He had a difficult relationship with Chriss Hanni. Chriss Hanni together with Joe Slovo were for an military take over of the South African State and not a negotiated settlement. Chriss Hanni was a communist who advocated for the full distribution of land to the black majority and complete nationalisation of the mineral resources of South Africa, anything less than that was a deal break for Him. He was very popular within the movement. was only second to Oliver Tambo and Nelson Mandela in Popularity.

[@tell.A.vision]

There's no profound relationship between the two... Can't make content out of nothing

[@malakiamatheus1822]

Well researched and packaged for us your audience.

[@tshiamomoreo]

Thoroughly enjoying the Sunday segment,very educational. Ayeye🔥🔥

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Glad to hear it

[@andile5945]

Brilliant, Sizwe. You've become - with your team - a south african political expert in my eyes. Great coverage!!

[@SibusisoSiyabongaNkosi]

"Yayy rainbow nation, Constitution, and all that... and Tintswalo's life begins"😂😂😂😭😭 DID I NOT LAUGH

[@Jay-rd3hn]

Rainbow Nation was a concept that most people didn’t know it was new and South Africa 🇿🇦 would overcome as it overcame apartheid.

[@senzomemela1311]

​@@Jay-rd3hna rainbow only dominated by one superior color...is no rainbow at all...

[@Jay-rd3hn]

@@senzomemela1311 it difficult to get it right because we still using their language to study from grade R until university level. Tell me one school in town here South Africa 🇿🇦 that is using vernacular to study all subjects until matric. The worse thing is the yards we have in township are so small you can’t even extend RDP house to build a house of your dreams with swimming pools. I have seen developers building tiny houses for about R600k in a land area of 262 metre squares and that is a total ripoff. Most houses in towns you will find that the yards starts from 800 metre squares. Apartheid is not over yet in South Africa 🇿🇦 because you can’t go to town find school that teaches African language as second language but you mostly find schools teaching in English and Afrikaans or English or Afrikaans as second language like during apartheid and we say apartheid is over in South Africa 🇿🇦. Language is information ℹ️ and information is knowledge, without knowledge you died even bible says my people are dying because of lack of knowledge. People who are not informed they can’t produce anything they will always follow those who are well informed and have knowledge.

[@mzikantumatoti4861]

I died lol 😂😂😂😂 Sizwe

[@fortunetshabalala534]

Interesting, but I couldn't help but wonder how much we do not know about what transpired behind the scenes during those CODESA negotiation years. Who was making decisions if not the ANC itself?🤔 how Zuma and Mbeki got to be removed may just be one of many valid questions to ask about most of the decision makings of that Era...

[@thubalethugasa8379]

These chaps are sworn to secrecy, even when they fight they don't say out loud exactly what happened.

[@shirleysamela2902]

Thank you for taking us back on our president’s history 🙏🏿

[@christinanxumalo6811]

Thank you Dr Mpofu. I'm eagerly waiting for you to release a book on unfiltered South African history. Our grandchildren will learn a lot from such.

[@mohaleSlebea776]

Mbeki by far was the best to take this country further

[@dumsiledlamini7536]

I Agree!!!!!!!!!

[@General_LG]

i do not agree . but if i was a white man i would

[@Aninomazi_]

​@@General_LGdumb

[@MthobisiAyandaMntungwa]

Not agree at all he had 2/3rd majority but never use it.

[@babalontloko1680]

By far two of the most polarizing figures in SA politics

[@unathimichaelmxaku8105]

Thanks Sizwe broer, very important topic for SA and the timing is 👌.

[@Siriuan]

Enkosi Buti Sizwe for the deep-dive! Fascinating history indeed :) We can safely say ANC belongs in a museum after these elections. Hope they don't self-destruct

[@MmeliEe]

You're very late, the ANC has already self-distructed. It begins where they force Msholozi into office and calling back Rama, it's only that the effects are not all instant

[@deborahgreene1432]

No 😂! Not museum 😂😂 Muslims... ANC has converted to Islam... don't you see what scarf they wear these days 🙆 theyve absolutely forsaken those ancestors whom they used to worship....this is not only called Change of Religion... The definition of this MADNESS is defined Cooku Land😢 what an Insult to those "madlozi'😊

[@Dr_RisimatiMathye]

My good Doc_ This high intellectual deduction of facts and clarity is superlative! Your high-level sequencing of facts is so unparalleled! I don't know how many times I watched this upload!🙌🌟🙌_ We need to hear more of this! Blessings 🙌

[@siyandachonco]

I loved this Sizwe. Thank you.

[@clintonleeuw3954]

Love this… Please do more. There are more South Africans that don’t know this than do! Thank you for this

[@makhosininkosi2430]

Uyishayile mfwethu. Thank you

[@caesar3909]

Deep dive into Cyril Ramaposa would be great.

[@mananammalegae]

💯 thank you I agree that would be extremely helpful

[@wfed3528]

His past is probably classified

[@philaniphmsomi8340]

sellout and apartheid spy. nothing more.

[@gidmosia7065]

Indeed an interesting figure and feature as the fingernan

[@sydneyopperman5023]

Fascinating story ! From someone who was born in 1942.

[@christinanxumalo6811]

Who?😂😂😂😂❤

[@General_LG]

who , im confused

[@eugeniazukiswaTshetsha11285]

"Nanko ke uLintswalo"!!!! Comic Sizwe!!! I & We truly love you SIZWE MPOFU WALSH - yhoo you are a DeepThinker mfan'akuthi - A PURE BLESSING in the whole of South Africa. We appreciate you - UPWARD & FORWARD SMWX !!!

[@thamimahlangu]

You are doing a brilliant job🎉

[@karabommako9859]

Thoroughly enjoyed watching this history lesson. I think these are extremely important, especially for the youth that might not be so clued up on our full political history. I am definitely in support of more segments like these.

[@mtilankatsa]

Great 👌 sizwe, great ✊🏿

[@MalibongweNombande]

Dope history lesson as well as a great contribution to the writing of our history and narrative. Thanks Hlubi.

[@gladmabena4477]

This would make a great Netflix series.

[@HamandisheMpofu]

Ahhh🤜🏿 Dr ! I love it. You narrated this story with so much passion, facts and comics that make it so much more intense, captivating and quite intriguing to keep listening and watching. You're indeed quite amazing at this Sir. Well done Dr.

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@khanyisanimlotshwa3056]

I enjoyed it as well 🎉🎉🎉

[@HamandisheMpofu]

@@khanyisanimlotshwa3056 amazingly beautiful, for South Africans by the South Africans young blood and vibrant intelligent, fearless minds and scholars alike 👌🏿.

[@molotowamapulana]

Dude this was amazing. Thanks for the insight

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@thamimasuku3443]

Great summary and great insights. Please look into the “Black Jack” figure of Ramaphosa in how the two men break up and how his lingering in the backgrounds defines the complex nature of the political tensions of the Mass Democratic Movement and the entrenched political-economic interests of the Capital.

[@tozamilefunani]

Mbeki’s problems started when he was selected to attend the Geneva youth summit because he was already in Europe. This didn’t seat well with the likes of Hani who was in the MK camps in Lusaka and there was belief that children of senior politicians were treated better than ordinary exiles. Zuma knew that for all these years Thabo Mbeki was protected by OR Tambo hence Hani contested Mbeki in the first ANC conference inside South Africa 🇿🇦 in Durban 1991. Walter Sisulu was persuaded to accept the deputy presidency in order to avert an acrimonious contest for the position among a younger generation of leaders particularly between Thabo Mbeki, Tambo's protégé, and Chris Hani, a SACP and MK leader. Hani died in 1993, Mbeki got rid of Holomisa in 1995 who was very close to Madiba and a rising star with the ANC but didn’t understand ANC’s internal politics. Mbeki made it worse when he appointed his loyalists in BBEEE deals comrades like Saki Macozoma, Phalo Jordan, Phahad brothers, Moleketis, Trevor Manuel Smuts Ngonyamas and others.. and sidelined mostly his MK rivalries. This is the group that regrouped with Zuma and toppled Mbeki in Polokwane…

[@viwenyati3529]

In the kitchen preparing lunch listening to such a good analogy of these two giants. They’re towering figures in post apartheid ANC, we all feel a certain way and hold opinions over them both.

[@1986aurora]

Yes I agree. I enjoy seeing this being discussed. We all have opinions regarding what is being discussed. I enjoy seeing it on a public platform it's important to know facts that hVe and continue to contribute to south africa.

[@mbongelenibuthelezi3384]

Mind blowing and critical analysis of these two case studies, excellent work.

[@johndias1439]

Awesome analysis... perhaps Cyril vs Zuma breakdown will be nice...in your next episode..

[@1986aurora]

Def with the gloves off u know. A totally honest brutal real analysis on 2 of the biggest names in south africa history. I think ppl who like and dislike them both would enjoy a breakdown.

[@General_LG]

bro, really ? Cyril vs Zuma?

[@neotrinityrakgajane]

This rivalry is a Netflix original. Amazing episode Sizwe.

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Thanks for watching!

[@user-hq9bd1ob3w]

This was a very educational, informative and well researched presentation. Enkosi Mhlekazi

[@leratomohlaudi5814]

This was a great episode, you have give a lot of context on their rivalry

[@stivo9730]

Fascinating stuff! I love the detail and the delivery. Best 30 minutes of my day. Thanks for the excellent content!

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Thanks!

[@dulciechomey3176]

Dear Sizwe😂 I would like to know what was happening with Chris Hani just before the Cdesa negotiation.

[@dulciechomey3176]

Chris was very popular and well loved by the man & woman in the street, especially by the youth then.I'm 86 yes and had very high hopes for Chris Hani to be in the first democratic government of this my Beloved country.

[@dulciechomey3176]

I really love your dedication to factual and unbiased reporting. Brilliant!!!. Carry on.!!

[@yobalicious5631]

thanks Dr for your narration of this fascinating story of these 2 political figures.....bring us more of these

[@ntuthukomakhubo6928]

A great watch Sizwe...please do a historical come up of Cyril and the unadressed issues sounding his links with WMC.

[@nickmatyida77]

This piece was unexpected. A classic!!!! You dope man...

[@mamoramokgopa2159]

Sizwe told such a good story, this could for a good movie

[@user-ip7pd3xm3c]

Very interesting, Sizwe can you please get hold of Mr. Terra Lekota to come give us his life story and as a member of ANC and tell us what exactly happened as he said Ramaphosa is or was a SPY for apartheid regime...thank u.

[@cypriannzama4731]

Thanks Sizwe for staying neutral in your analysis of these two giant leaders. The country is now too polarised to visualise positive contributions from these leaders. Keep it up.

[@bhekumusabongathamsanqamkh5742]

What a very informative account of the Greatest ANC leaders.

[@MrTobyjansen]

Love this new bend. I listened from start to finish.Yes, this is going to be a good sport.

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

🙌🏽

[@lindzimcolzwane6761]

Awesome.Thanks Dr Sizwe Mpofu Walsh.

[@MrPoliteAgain]

This is a type of story you tell around a camp fire, so intriguing. Thank you Sizwe ❤

[@phiwo8998]

Why does this feel like it was too short ! Was so captured in this story. @Siz, do you think Ramaphosa being chief negotiator and then going on to be a billionaire means he was compromised in our negotiations

[@bluchill]

Thank you and eleqountetly told tale of these two important men. Thank you for the episode and the look back into history, loved the episode!

[@sabelomoloi8008]

Very informative. Thank you! Ayeye😀

[@user-st6kf5xk3b]

Well researched and succinctly presented Sizwe. I've become more fond of viewing your programs recently. Keep up the great work!

[@Snow-wh9gk]

I'm from Namibia 🇳🇦 this has been an incredible analysis of our present time. But the question remain, why it that all liberation struggle organizations in Southern Africa have weaker strategic thinkers?

[@1986aurora]

Good question

[@caven7056]

Not just southern africa but all of Africa has this same problem

[@tanalimandla]

Sizwe bro, what an introduction and great story telling. So much relevance!!

[@timbosch31]

Really enjoyed this segment. Please keep going with your great, though provoking and insightful work

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

Thanks, will do!

[@mantombimkhwebane335]

Sizwe, you are a Star, you analysis is characterized by brilliance and thought provoking.

[@skhulumadlala2999]

Nice one!!! Enjoyed this one😊😊

[@KazieD]

We Lost a leader in Zizi 😢 we are still weeping as a nation and I dont think we will ever recover. The ANC lost the WC the day they removed Mbeki and have been struggling ever since.

[@shaistamohammed625]

Please can Mabeki campaign for president it will be appreciated ❤❤❤❤

[@manyananihlwatika726]

I can't wait for this episode... Wise men and women always say he who left the union building at first was our own goal... Look at our country now ..

[@sibonakalisothamsanqamsane9576]

This was absolutely captivating. Kudos!!!

[@pamelaleibowitz3019]

Sadly it is the country that is suffering!The values we must aspire to are Honesty, integrity ,accountability and responsibility! We must elect leaders that understand the importance of moral values and principles!

[@mandlangobese1479]

We want more deep down to political history of SA thanks for this short formative summary.

[@mpho438]

Thank you Dr. For such an analysis. I've never looked at like this before.

[@zanelemathebula6453]

A welcomed reminder of our former presidents, this most definitely will make for interesting conversation over dinner/braai or whatever we do these days in SA.

[@TheUsworldwide]

Bro this was absolutely FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@gppg1799]

Awesome

[@MoeketsiMoahloli]

Hi Sizwe I am watching this film and lessening the most important history between two former President, Now I think this is the most crucial stage where giants will decampiam each other. The south African are facing the difficulty stage where they must make a decision for right thing. Sizwe as South African we need a ridimer someone who can take us out of this situation

[@leonardojordyn4864]

South African politics like to underestimate president Zuma incredible history of freedom fighting sacrifice

[@simzalekile]

Nice one Sizwe👌🏿. Let's have a Ramaphosa history

[@nolubabalosonti8640]

Fascinating, now this has piqued my curiosity for sure.

[@MrXolaX]

If you added pictures and video media to this video it give it visual context it could get 500,000 views easily.

[@homemail9653]

Well narrated. This was gripping for my apolitical mind. Like listening to a political soapie. The Tale of Two Presidents. Very informative...

[@Siriuan]

"The Tale of Two Presidents" I think you need to trademark that 😅 it would make a good book title;)

[@rubylane9867]

Great job Sizwe as always. Thank you

[@user-er8bg5mz7x]

Great narrative of the two great leaders of our country. I really enjoyed it. It is objective, factual, and to the point. GREAT 👍.

[@johnmokele8719]

Wow! Very educational and informative. Thought provoking

[@bongzsbiya104]

Thank you. This was short but fascinating!

[@DikelediGwangwa]

Sizwe, your presentation is excellent. You know your history.

[@fredscherf8266]

Sizwe u are awesome

[@minettecoetzee3629]

Great and interesting analysis of two great men’s intertwined narratives of power, thanks so much Sizwe

[@kgjaqe1169]

Quite an interesting analysis. Thank you kindly!🔥🔥🔥

[@user-nq6yk4np5b]

This video is a moment in our history. I know you just changed the country

[@Sizwe.MpofuWalsh]

🙏🏽

[@orapelengmaponyane7684]

Thanks for the great video - very fantastic story telling ! I have been fascinated by the Zuma Mbeki dynamic and even after watching the video I have a hunger for more

[@zebulonbvuma6035]

Nicely articulated as always👏

[@MikionMashigo-cf9jf]

This is a great historical story Sizwe , I really acquired some important knowledge. Keep up the good work

[@user-yu9hj5cx8t]

Love the historical deep dives!

[@joeldlamini319]

You have just made an outstanding analysis of the politucal career of the two influential presidents of the Republic. It was indeed informative to follow your video

[@user-nt6ki8rq8k]

Thanks, continue what you started.

[@Chantelleweich]

Nicely done Sizwe!

[@londanintshangase]

Enjoyed this one

[@sibonisiwengcobo8116]

Thank you mntanami well analyzed,educational, well presented 🙏This really opened my mind and got so many answers on the current political wrestling 🙏

[@amosmtombeni7373]

Thanke for an interesting information BRAVO!!!

[@thembelihlehlatshwayo2761]

🎉🎉🎉Well done Sizwe. Unbiased reporting from a well researched information

[@dudunxumalo3652]

Thank you...fascinating !

[@notyetuhuru]

A documentary about Matamela's rise to power will be the most intriguing. Zuma was born to lead, and his political prowess is unmatched. I think in the history of South Africa, Msholozi is undeniable the most influential leader after Mandela.

[@makhosazanemweli]

🤞🤞

[@lwazimvangeli682]

Thank you very much Sizwe for the insight

[@makhosazanemweli]

Sizwe, you've an amazing voice ❤❤