Zwift Group Ride Etiquette // Bunch Riding Tips

My tips on how to enjoy virtual bunch rides on Zwift. From not missing the start roll-out, bunch positioning, and what happens when you drop off the back! Thanks to the Aussie Hump Day Crew for the ride, and for being the 'extras' in this video! Remember to click SUBSCRIBE to support this KZbin channel: bit.ly/3aUph9W
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Web: shanemiller.net
Instagram: / gplama
Strava: / strava
Twitter: / gplama
KZbin: / gplama
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#zwift #cycling #fitness

[@hughmoore2]

No wonder I cant ride in a group, I was looking for the bacon, not the be beacon! :)

[@terencejohnson8450]

lol

[@primersdime]

You guys take the zwift group rides way too serious. I turned my chat off just so I don't have to see all the group riders whining the entire time.

[@kiely4561]

Yeah it did make me chuckle when reading the words zwift ride etiquette lol

[@Mosely2007]

Like this video. I use Zwift but as. 70 yr old .figuring this out was difficult . You explained it I. An easy to understand way. Thanks👍

[@nealm6764]

Hahahahahahha! I like how your Zwift self has a full, luxurious mane of hair! Ride on!

[@AaronGale85]

I did this for the first time tonight. Only my second ride on zwift. I got dropped just before doing the 3rd lap. I was hurting 😭😭😭

[@jamegumm]

He's saying Bee-con, not bacon

[@karlhandley9375]

New to cycling, just bought a Wahoo Kickr Core. Loving the enthusiasm of people like Shaun, like GCN channels. Really getting me excited to 1) Race on Zwift and 2) Get outdoors and enjoy the world.

[@LeelooMinai]

My first thought when the video started was "damn, this software has excellent face-feature rendering engine".

[@stephenmoon2767]

Nice demonstration of how much being in the draft means, plus good overview of etiquette for a group ride, wish I'd known that before I joined my 1st one, mind you, loving the PACK rides over in Europe. Another quality vid from the Llama!! Keep um coming!!

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

omg, rule #1 of any group ride: DO NOT HALF-WHEEL THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!!! what a cluster-fudge... NO CROSSING THE DOUBLE-YELLOW!!! never riding with this knucklehead group serious question though, would the feedback omnium, the favero uno, and a rear speed sensor be sufficient to do this? or does zwift require a smart trainer?

[@gplama]

No speed sensor required if you have a power meter on the bike. Zwift will use that to calculate your in-game speed.

[@1968davidlynch]

I don't believe that, I have been on Zwift since the beta testing days and I've only just learned the "A" key hack. The amount of times I've waited for the avatar to come to stop on gentle slope, I have even started only ending up hill it has driven me crazy......until now Lol

[@mcone1959]

I am new to Zwift and have been disappointed that this feature does not exist. But now I see that it does.

[@reynaldogarcia3799]

I have never done anything but ride alone. Mostly ride alone IRL too, but will be up at 1AM Pacific for my first one next week.

[@myersjx]

Thank you for posting. I ride alone regularly,but have always wondered about group rides. I alway see the calling out the beacon and sweeper, but never see them as they pass. Great video!! Ride on! Jason

[@snafujag100]

How come so many riders in front of beacon? Last g ride I did it ended with 99% of riders ahead of beacon🤷🏼‍♂️

[@stevescott5469]

Impressed you could still talk

[@dh7314]

I don't do group rides on zwift any more. Too annoying.

[@MR-wh5wp]

2w/kg would be 88watts for me. I have to do at least 3w/kg to keep up 🤣

[@ronbell7920]

Thanks Shane! I am new to Zwift, and I am having trouble in not overshooting the bunch when I want to get in the draft. Do you have any suggestions?

[@schwantz037]

Used to do these rides but the whinging got too much....

[@6Shine6down6]

I do this in real life every week with 15-40 people, sometimes it's hard to see if everyone if following me or not + red lights :') ! Looking forward on trying these group rides on Zwift when I will have my trainer :)

[@rudyspring2528]

Thanks so much for this! Very educational. I look forward to my first ever group ride in a couple of days.

[@jayshockey5461]

Shane you are awesome! Love all your videos! Keep up the great work!👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻

[@David..]

100% of Zwift rides I've ever done have turned until a complete shit show with people sprinting off. Would be helpful if w/KG was displayed in large font so you dont have to squint.

[@geoffdiamond2532]

Great summary of the AHDR GPL. The AHDR is, in my opinion the best fun on Zwift (but currently clashes with my track session boo hoo) Easy to join, you can do it hard or controlled Tim et al do a great job ! I started as a virtual ride sceptic but this ride changed everything for me.

[@richmurphy8337]

Love your stuff.. first port of call with my coffee. Keep it up! Thanks.

[@AG17_1]

As someone that acts as a sweeper for some group rides I'd also add that communication, e.g. If you are dropping out or need a wheel, is very helpful. In a disorganised group sweeping is a very good interval workout!

[@cyclingnerddelux698]

Who thought he said, "stay with the bacon?"

[@bobbysilver272]

The HDR is one of the better group rides. In some group rides, sometimes the pace is just too slow even though they advertise otherwise. This probably encourages some to push off the front.

[@gavinhanna]

Shane your videos are excellent thanks for doing them very interesting!

[@jhowardgreenthumb]

Would be cool if you could get a vr headset and ride on zwift. That way you could look around in first person view.

[@gplama]

Already supported.... almost three years ago. They've not demo'ed it much since. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2SsiYSbjM6ma80

[@TrainDriverRob]

Rode with Tim this morning on an Academy ride, he does his best to keep order to be fair to him. Now and again I drop back to lose the rubber band effect to bring the heart rate right up and make it more of an effort.

[@fabrice6847]

Hey, I will do my first ever group ride in 2 days, but when I am gonna sign up it says ... watts/kilos, is that the effort that will be maintained during the ride or the FTP needed to do it? Thanks if you answer before the ride!

[@gplama]

W/kg during the ride

[@layrdolliff6460]

You sir are my Zwift goal. I hope to be as strong as you someday.

[@cyclenutter2715]

Wish my channel was half as good! Nice video man 😀

[@MAsWorld1]

I do Zwift but I don’t see the benefits of group rides, what’s the deal?

[@riseshine3177]

Is not every group ride without a fence kicking ppl a race?! ;)

[@jamesbowden6922]

nice vid mate

[@migferreira]

Hey Shane. I was thinking that you do a video for Zwift bunch riding etiquete to identify "no-go's" that riders often do on group rides. I'm referring to things like riding away from the group at 4W when the leader states 2W, riders who don't enter the events and then hijack the wheels to sit on, guys that back off for no reason and let you fall out of the draft, etc. Many riders do these things without understanding that they can frustrate you, so this may help newbies and those that learnt the wrong habits.

[@gplama]

This is what this video was about.

[@Fidasaind]

Tim is someone that the ZA-DD group keeps recommending for ZA group rides. A shame he's down in Australia. I wonder how much coffee I'd have to bribe him with to do one at 6pm MST

[@timsearle1980]

A lot....!

[@captain1664]

Very useful, thanks Lama

[@peerschmidt8548]

Hi Shane, thx for watching my stream last friday on twitch. i have the problem, that my kickr is very loud. i noticed your roller is hardly noticable in this stream. what mic are you using?

[@gplama]

What model Kickr do you have? The latest generation ones are virtually silent. The mic is a Blue Yeti and I'm using a noise gate filter within OBS.

[@coachrobwille4176]

I have a question in this group ride is there anything you can do to screw up someones ride ? I want to get this set up but I am scared as I don`t want to piss anyone off. I real life I have never been in a group. Trying to get back into triathlons. Thanks

[@gplama]

Not following the ride leader direction.

[@coachrobwille4176]

Thanks is there anyway though you can cause a crash if you are not careful enough ?

[@gplama]

@@coachrobwille4176 Nope

[@joblessalex]

Im so confused at what this is, But sure.

[@bishplis7226]

agoraphobia

[@conorwright9783]

Do yourself a favour and DONT RIDE A TT BIKE DURING GROUP RIDES! You don't get the benefit of the draft. I learnt this the hard way after entering a 2.7w/kg ride only to have to ride at an average of 4+w/kg for an hour to keep up (I came 150th out of 280, which wasn't bad I thought). Set FTP personal bests and all kinds. But then couldn't walk for a few days. RIIIIDE ONNNN

[@UnboxRacing]

In 2022, keeping with the Beacon appears to be an issue for almost half the folks on each ride. Some people just f off at 4-5 w/kg and race or flex on a D fun ride. I don't understand why. Sometimes there is a red fence to try and stop this but you get Muppets complaining. Seems etiquette is difficult for some.

[@davidhenner5067]

I've found the beacon always going harder than the indicated pace. I wanted these rides for recovery rides at 1.5W/Kg. The Beacon will always tend to ride at 1.7 or sometimes higher. Hence now I do recovery rides on my own.

[@HappyHounds]

I'm not understanding why so many people are bitching... What's the big deal?

[@terryb392]

I've found even rides prescribed at 1.5 watts /kilo when in the bunch with beacon need to ride at 2 watts plus to keep up, not particularly ideal if you want a recovery ride

[@OhShunz]

Looks fun!

[@chiefrocker12]

I would like to join one day....its my 1am of so :)

[@davelarson7628]

The efficacious washer potentially drip because teacher italy injure modulo a classy basin. taboo, fancy donald

[@gplama]

What the hell is that word puzzle?

[@TempestPhaedra]

@@gplama I've noticed an enormous uptick in bots leaving word salad on youtube this past week.

[@rcuadro]

How neat! All the bike avatars have little trainers on them until the race starts :)

[@vincez460]

Great video, Shane!

[@GoonieGooGoo910]

bunch ride catch up, i've done it. it's a world of hurt and it usually happens when I'm texting someone and not pay attention to the ride. Get on it! Also, the flyers, could fall back and do VO2Max intervals and stay behind the beacon, but I guess it's more fun to drop the beacon for some folks. Drop back, catch up, drop back, catch up, that's a really hard workout.

[@johnsimworld3926]

i start my zwift run to day hope go will

[@kaygoudey1500]

Hi there, what trainer would you go for kikr version 2 or a cycleops hammer? Pairing with zwift on S8 phone Thanks for the help

[@davidwargin1766]

I agree w/ the first tip about staying with the beacon. Interestingly, the other evening the Leader decided to show his wattage ability and hammered in the last 6-7 KM of a "group" ride (not a race) -- leaving many in the dust. He went against the avg pace. Not cool!

[@Patrick65879]

How old is this guy? I’m amazed his heart rate is so high at the watts he’s doing and that he can still talk when his heart rate is at 158!

[@gplama]

Hi. This guy here. 40.

[@thestopper5165]

I'm 53 and only half-fit (FTP barely 3W/kg), but I can still hold a conversation at HR 158. Above 165 I'll struggle, though (176 is my maxHR). As Shane pointed out, he's over a decade younger, and probably has at least 10 VO2Max points on me (mine's under 50). That would give him a Karvonen MaxHR above 185, so 158 is the bottom of "Tempo" for him (it's the top of "Tempo" for me).

[@snakeface5652]

Probably also best to have some rest before doing one of these - perhaps not have 3 days in a row of riding as well as a lot of walking before one like I had.

[@austinsteyn]

Hey Shane, I've recently created a twitch stream. So question... how do you get the picture of yourself superimposed in front of your Zwift screen with no background? My web came include my garage door as my background which is not great to watch. Any advise appreciated.

[@gplama]

You’re after a green screen. KZbin search for my video on the Elgato green screen.

[@andrewjackson5868]

Where is he seeing his watts per Kg?

[@gplama]

Right column under the name listing.

[@natesanti]

Well, I didn't need to watch this video because I'm not fast enough to shoot off the front in any race. But, nice vid.

[@nhorscro]

Great to know. #zwiftriders

[@willgodding2771]

Would you not say that a ride specified on watts/kg is a bit subjective? I imagine I'm a good 10-15kg heavier than the Lama so at 3w/kg that's an extra 30-45watts which is a lot more energy required

[@zwergstein2152]

yes but zwift calculates speed solely on w/kg so it is an easy way of ensuring the bunch stays together

[@gastondaglio]

Sorry the stupid question; im recently buy a tacx Fluix ...but i dont know if i need t urn off the power after use it ...(sorry bad english)

[@gplama]

It doesn't require this.

[@dr_taka]

Hi Llama I was me saying hello

[@gabrielung4088]

I always wondered how on the road cycling etiquette translate to Zwift. Thanks for the video Shane :)

[@stevewalter1888]

👍

[@zildjianx]

Is Zwift for all skill levels? I'm just a beginner cyclist looking to have a little bit more fun during these winter months.

[@gplama]

It's whatever you want to make it.

[@zildjianx]

@@gplama awesome, thank you for the response!

[@guitsynthcw]

This is my experience. Almost no one stays behind the beacon. What's the point of the beacon then?

[@gplama]

They're the ride leader. They're usually the one who sets the route, pace, etc. If everyone wants to do their own thing.... fine... I guess. A lot of ride leader give up and move on due to people agreeing to join an event and doing something entirely different. It's an interesting problem on a social platform. There's no accountability for being a prick. The fence helps.... better tools for ride leaders would be welcomed.

[@admintopsolution]

Hi Shane, if you don't mind, can I ask which kind of smart fan you are using?

[@gplama]

Wahoo Headwind. I also have this little gem by Keith Wakeham here I've been using: maelstrom.me/

[@DreTheChronic]

I've just bought a spin bike (not trainer) and I cannot get above 110w and like 17mph... is that because my spin bike doesn't record resistance well or can I bet that bad? I'm a competitive runner but new to cycling

[@gplama]

One for Zwift support

[@DreTheChronic]

@@gplama my spin bike isn't great to be fair, most rides the resistance pin spins round and gets less resistant it's very annoying 😂 but didn't want to spend more than 200

[@B.A.Bassangler]

How do you hack the system, so you can kick or punch like in Road-Rash?

[@gplama]

GTAV is what you're after: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ2UaIOVotV7f5I

[@anthonyheywardCABG]

A great educational vid Shane. Succinct coverage of the Dangerzone! Great work.

[@jingwu997]

What’s the setup, please? I cannot put the ZWIFT background music through obs...

[@gplama]

See my video on streaming basics here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIupmpl7pNeKpLs

[@jingwu997]

@@gplama thank you very much. I still have some remaining issues with ZWIFT background music and sounds setup.

[@abedfo88]

Hey Shane, when i free ride im never certain what to do when passing someone doing a similar w/kg ,do i jump on the wheel, take a turn or keep riding on. Social quandaries.

[@gplama]

Ping them on text chat to see if they’re up for a roll, or throw a u-then and another in a few 100m to let them go.

[@AndrewL]

we can't see your weight / kg

[@gplama]

It's on screen the whole time....?

[@davidpotts5567]

Another great stream thanks..my 1st gen Kickr has lost Ant+ connection since the recent Zwift update..Tickr and cadence are fine..Kickr still visible via Bluetooth but erg mode is erratic..any ideas?

[@gplama]

One for Zwift support. There has been a lot of gremlins reported lately in regard to ERG. I’m not across the specific changes being made to the Zwift code, so it’s one for their support team.

[@davidpotts5567]

Shane Miller - GPLama Ok thanks for the reply..I’m waiting for them to get back to me

[@ByStrumbah]

If you are 20 km in on your ride and you enter a group ride, does de km and time go back to 0?

[@gplama]

Yes. It'll start a new activity. It'll upload the first to Zwift/Strava/etc if you have those linked.

[@JuanRivera-wg8iv]

Why some "social" rides turn into a race for dear life???

[@gplama]

No consequences. No ride leader control of the group. There's a few things that could be implemented to boot people from events who disrupt the experience of others. I suspect Zwift are hesitant to start 'policing' paid subscribers. .

[@Bone_89]

I did my first group ride today. At the end some folks kept the group jersey and I checked to see if I earned it; I did not. Are group jerseys not earnable?

[@gplama]

That depends on the group/event.

[@Bone_89]

@@gplama okay, thanks! Did a little more research and seems to be a glitch in some modes where you dont see yourself in the jersey, but others do.

[@2000nurek]

What is the name of this event and what time does it start (Oz time) ?Im Sydney based , love to join

[@gplama]

This one is the Aussie Hump Day Ride (AHDR) on Wednesdays at 7pm.

[@adlhikes3159]

V new to this. Beacon? Couldn’t see it/him. What & where on the screen would I see the Beacon.

[@gplama]

Some group rides don't have an assigned leader.

[@adlhikes3159]

On your ride (this video), you referenced the Beacon many times 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@gplama]

@@adlhikes3159 On this ride the Beacon is shown in yellow (name card) and with the HUGE yellow pole. 9:18 is a random spot it's on screen.

[@MichaelK-4]

Hi Shane - great videos as always..can you tell me if there is a draft effect when doing a group ride? I did a group workout and the speed was limited which was pretty annoying.. Thanks

[@gplama]

Group workouts are different to group rides. The workout feature keeps the bunch glued together.

[@MichaelK-4]

Thanks for the quick reply.

[@jeffers2006]

When doing Zwift Academy group rides if I ride at the preset Watts per kilos which was 2.5 I get dropped and have to maintain much higher to stay in. Do you know why this might be?

[@gplama]

It depends on the course... and the ride leader... and the bunch. Impossible to know exactly what is going on without being in the bunch myself. I'd aim for sticking with the yellow beacon rider and trying to ignore the set wattage (although it should be ball-park what was listed)

[@jeffers2006]

Shane Miller - GPLama it was weird when the social ride was suppose to be 2.0 - 2.5 w/kg and other riders around me were doing 1.8 - 2.2w/kg I was doing 2.7w/kg and going backwards

[@thestopper5165]

@@jeffers2006 if you're tall, there's a (modest) penalty - for two riders putting out the same W/kg (and/or the same weight), the shorter one gets a (slight) aero advantage. That's realistic, since tall riders have a slightly higher CDA than a shorter rider of the same weight. It certainly shouldn't amount to 0.5W/kg though... sounds like you were out of the 'bubble' of the group's slipstream/draught. If you lost the draught (if the "rubber band snapped"), you would have to pull *at least* 3.5W/kg to get back onto a group that was running at 1.8-2.2; if you were pulling 2.7W/kg in a solo effort, the group would pull away from you. Another thing that happens when you lose the draught and then work like Billy-Oh to get back on... the 'natural' thing that happens when you get that "OK" is to slacken off a bit... and drift back out of the slipstream (I do it *all the time* ).

[@NoName-xi1iy]

why do you wear the jersey and everything when your inside ?

[@gplama]

It's simply polite when live streaming/filming. Nobody wants to see topless people on bikes - KZbin and other streaming services especially. If the camera isn't rolling and I'm training - no jersey indoors.

[@fpet1]

Should power be constant or is it ok for it to fluctuate?

[@gplama]

There's no correct answer here... it depends what you're doing.

[@legestrom]

Are you even getting a sweat going doing 160w?

[@gplama]

Everyone is different.

[@7bowlo]

bacon rolls also running beautifully these days thanks to the respect and organisation from Tim and LTs .

[@AaronGale85]

Hey

[@gplama]

Look out! Was that you I saw in the bunch tonight mate?

[@AaronGale85]

Shane Miller - GPLama yeah.. either im not anywhere near as fit as i should be or that was full of machines.. finished like 190 something. Died just before 3rd lap

[@kingdaniel69]

What's a 'Lootenant"?

[@gplama]

Lieutenant. Policing the bunch.

[@nathaliec7330]

How come pace I so fast in group ?

[@gplama]

It's bunch riding dynamics. The group is faster than an individual most of the time.

[@nathaliec7330]

@@gplama that makes sense thank you

[@matthewvital9847]

I went to a few events today but none of them had drafting. Is there a way to know if an event has drafting before starting the event? or did the devs removed it?

[@gplama]

ZwiftPower events schedule lists a lot of the event parameters.

[@matthewvital9847]

@@gplama quick question. i'm using an Elite Novo smart trainer connected to my phone and when I start my sprint I noticed a 4 second delay from when I start sprinting to when it shows up in Zwift. is there a way to reduce the delay like connecting to my PC or would I need to buy a better smart trainer?

[@gplama]

@@matthewvital9847 I'm not familiar with the Novo trainer sorry. Best test with ANT+, then Bluetooth.... then test another trainer if possible.

[@matthewvital9847]

@@gplama hi again. i'm changing over from mountain bike cleats to road bike cleats. specifically im going with SHIMANO PD-RS500 SPD/SPD-SL Pedals. but under the details it says ( cleat:SM-SH11). i don't really understand the numbers. Do i need to find a SM-SH11 or can SM-SH12 work?

[@gplama]

@@matthewvital9847 Google or Shimano Support is your best bet here.

[@johnbarrick4836]

That’s a high heart rate

[@gplama]

It's very subjective.

[@johnbarrick4836]

Shane Miller - GPLama True Is just comparing it to mine at 170.I’m new to this sport we really don’t pay much mind to heart rates in lifting.

[@CryWolfFilms]

i dont get the point of this. just race.

[@michaeltan511]

There were no thumbderstorms to be had tonight... =(

[@gplama]

I thought I missed it. So it didn’t happen! Bacon must be tired (although he had massive watts at the end of Pac-Man)

[@dr_taka]

Tim was too busy chatting

[@michaeltan511]

Shane Miller - GPLama yep he pulled one mother of a Hail Mary towards the end... must be one of his good days lol

[@timsearle1980]

One of Michael??!! Lol re the THUMBDERSTORM...I thought about it straight afterwards when I saw my results screen. I'd led a Zwift Academy ride right before the AHDR & couldn't remember if I'd done a storm there or during this ride!!

[@JohnKuridala]

I'm too fat to keep up with the hump ride.. ☹️

[@JohnKuridala]

I guess it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.. at 129kg :-(

[@JohnKuridala]

Yeah I struggle to find any group ride I am able to do. I am 129kg.. a big unit. FTP is 269, but I have to hold 250+ for this entire ride. A lot of riding solo, which as you know ain't really much fun.

[@gearathon]

Good work John! You will see massive improvements on zwift as you weight dimishes. And your fitness will also improve along the way. Keep going !

[@bishplis7226]

isnt that the point? struggling? taking it easy doesnt make you fitter @@JohnKuridala

[@KentArnsbarger]

group rides even at the lowest level are impossible for me to keep up with. Don't know if my basic setup is just wrong or what, but considering how much I ride outdoors I find it hard to believe I'd be dropped almost instantly. So I don't do any type of group rides and certainly no racing anymore on this!! HA!! Zwift is a glorified video game/popularity venue as much as I like it. I also find simply riding to good KZbin videos can push me harder. Might look into BKool for this winter

[@NewEnglandBikeRides]

I am the same way. I like finding other independent riders holding my same pace, but attempting to keep with an organized group has proven very difficult. I also don't like the fake Zwift elevation killing my Strava data.

[@edis_and_oscar]

how do I unlock that TCR at 0:55 ???

[@gplama]

It's an event only unlock I believe.

[@edis_and_oscar]

ahhh damn!

[@Average_Gatsby]

Wow, I’m early.. ummm hi

[@gplama]

G'day!

[@justinwiggy]

Etiquette 😂 it's a video game!

[@gplama]

Welcome to the future. It’s a social experience. Dismissing it is the problem.

[@justinwiggy]

Shane Miller - GPLama I ride Zwift. It is what it is. Been invaluable in rehabbing after a nightmare month with multiple crashes. It's also a great tool for keeping fitness up when crap weather hits. I leave the online 'etiquette' to my GTA playing teenage kids.