Zwift Trainer Difficulty: There's one more thing to know....descents!

Think you've got a grip on how the Trainer Difficulty setting works in Zwift? Well, there's one more thing to know. Zwift handles negative gradients differently. In this video I discuss and demonstrate the simulation commands sent to a smart trainer for uphill and downhill gradients and compare those to the in-game virtual gradient your avatar has to slog up (and down).
Please note: The discussion around the 'Trainer Difficulty' making you faster or slower in-game (virtual reality) has been run and done. It doesn't have any impact over the in-game virtual speed. See my video here: • Zwift Trainer Difficul... How you produce those watts is a topic for another day.
🔴 Remember to click SUBSCRIBE to be notified of new content: bit.ly/3aUph9W
🔵 Become a GPLAMA Channel Member to support these videos: bit.ly/2CUXTaC
--------------------
gplama.com
#zwift #cycling #indoorcycling

[@jimjimtiger]

Will just leave my trainer difficulty at 50% where it's been for the last 3 years. 😁

[@kiverrussell8369]

Title music "on" astounded! 😄 Great, clear video.

[@Nathan-1234]

I think the real question is.... Do you still have to produce the same amount of Watts to travel a known distance with the difficulty changed. That would solve all disagreements

[@gaul849]

I have noticed when you coast at around 15kph down hill sometimes your avatar will put the brakes on to stop rather to gather speed happens once in a while.

[@jharris-pdxrides]

I'm sure it varies a lot on preference, but I saw somewhere that most Zwift racers set the difficulty between 20% and 40% to get the a balance of having a little more resistance on hills to push against, while still being able to put power down over the top of and down hills as well. I've found that with it set too low I lose position on short, punchy hills like on Richmond where others can keep it in the same gear and let the "bite" of the resistance change surge their power whereas I have to shift up even on a climb to do the same thing. I'm at roughly 30% now and find it the best balance for me. I don't understand turning it all the way down and making even the Alpe a flat TT, but I guess if you're training for a flat TT…

[@sevenrats]

Turning it down does NOT make the Alpe flat!!! You still have to make the same power to make the avatar a given speed.

[@moodtherapist]

WOAH, that effect is FREAKY!!

[@gplama]

My card flip? Or just Zwift in general? Either way, I agree. :)

[@moodtherapist]

Shane Miller - GPLama The flipping thing! It was kinda Max Headroomish if you’re old enough to know what that means!

[@jmreinke]

@@moodtherapist Ma-Ma-Ma-Max H-H-Headroom!

[@alainreyers]

A good test also would be climbs and descent in a bunch......other sensation too

[@barryhambly7711]

Don't quite get this your first ride the slider was set to max, on climb at 7% sign , data was 78 rpm 298 watts 16 kpm --- second ride slider set to half/ at 7% sign, data was 73 rpm 361 watts 18 kph which means the avatar was climbing faster as it works on watts to climb % value for speed so you must have been on smaller cog second ride so there could be an advantage to be had with slider set lower than max and if you the rider can also spin fast as well to my mind there is an advantage. Watts can be produced by spinning fast to get say 200 w like Chris Froome does it or by going on a smaller cog and spin slower to get the 200w which is more stress on your legs so if you can spin fast it's less stress than pushing force through the pedals for the muscles. Just a thought 👍

[@gplama]

Higher watts = faster speed. Yes. Zwift doesn't take into account my HR, Cadence, or feelings when calculating speed.

[@LesgoBrandon7]

So what if the trainer setting is set to off? Also is there a way to make it be 100% real on the downhill?

[@gplama]

Off means no resistance changes at all. There’s no way to have Zwift send 100% of downhill gradient.

[@ianpattison8140]

I know that trainer difficulty doesn't affect climbing time assuming you are putting out the same wattage. However does it make it easier to set a fast time on zero difficulty as you can just stick to a constant effort rather than the fluctuations that occur with changing gradient and gears? I'm thinking here of the longer 20min climbs that have flatter sections. I always keep the difficulty at 100% as I find it makes things more interesting but I've often wondered if 0% would be better if I was trying to get a fast time!

[@Ed-qv2qd]

My opinion is yes, you will climb faster with the trainer resistance set to zero given as you stated you don't have to play with shifting gears and can just hold study at whatever high watt level you can hold. Your legs are not getting hit with a buch of resistance changes (assuming hill grade is changing) which add up and take there toll on your legs over a long climb. Also the angular inertia of the trainer flywheel/ bike's back wheel is much higher when producing x watts at no resistance vs x watts with resistance being applied. Easier to hold higher watts under this scenario.

[@ianpattison8140]

@@Ed-qv2qd thank you. I guess an experiment is required to be sure but that would require at least 2 max effort reps up one of the big climbs and I don't won't to do that! Mr Lama, over to you :)

[@kingdaniel69]

Is this applicable for races too?

[@gplama]

Yes

[@byronwellburn]

I read somewhere you shouldn't use MAX unless you have a high end trainer. You got any reasoning to add to this? I am using a Elite REAL Turbo Muin b+ which does 18% and don't want to break it. If I one day think of turning it up to MAX. Maybe. 🤣

[@gplama]

There’s zero reason behind that.

[@freshlaruku]

so to climb the same hill will require a smaller wattage if we use minimal settings?

[@gplama]

No. That's the total opposite of what this entire video shows.

[@aliflack]

Why don’t they just call it “gradient realism”??

[@gplama]

Because that'd still confuse people as to which gradient is changed - in game, or in person. I agree it needs some kind of name change though.

[@erlendursmari]

But why? Why is the default trainer difficulty in Zwift 0.5 (which entails 0.5 uphill and 0.25 downhill)? What's the benefit; does the ride feel more realistic or what's the reason?

[@gplama]

Good question. I guess Zwift thought people only like hills half as much. 😉

[@ozgurinsan]

whats the purpose of this video?

[@gplama]

I think I repeated myself at least 50 times in this video. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ozgurinsan]

@@gplama didnt get it

[@covboy70]

Ok my take on this is the following. 1) 250w up a climb equals a given speed for your Avatar. You still have to produce 250w regardless of your cadence and what gear you use....but 2) the difficulty slider allows people to make full use of their gear ratios depending on their ability. If you build a trainer capable of handling 500w in a high gear, but a user can only hold 150w, then that Smart trainer would be 'too hard' for them, and they would spend whole time in bottom few cogs. The slider allows for the differences in smart trainer ranges, AND the differences in user's capability. It does not make pushing a wattage in game easier

[@LewLew18]

Forget the trainer difficulty, I didn’t realise “ride on’s” collected in your back pockets!! #needmorefriends 😂

[@timgraves4209]

me either

[@julianalzategomez7195]

Mmmmmmm, so that's what the little me has in the back pockets, go figure.

[@regularlyirregular8876]

Fewer friends means less weight #nofriends /s

[@jussa101]

Don't even own a trainer but watch all your videos for the support.

[@evanbrighton5646]

This issue first seems like a mind-bender but hopefully it isn't ... my take on it is that setting "Difficulty" is equivalent to changing gear. In-game, it still takes the same energy to climb a hill - and higher gear/lower cadence = lower gear/higher cadence = same Watts. Setting 100% difficulty just means you will need to select a lower gear for the same energy output, and same energy output therefore means no difference in-game.

[@1carusjohn32]

On some trainers that attach to the wheel they are a lot more fluid at higher wheel speeds. If I am pushing op 11% at 300w at 7mph my trainer really doesn't like it. At 50% it allows more speed at the wheel for the same power which is in a better place for the trainer to handle as its rotational speed is higher. Also it is sharing the loaded force over more tyre rubber so is less harsh on tyre wear etc.

[@morganowens1359]

Im on a Kickr snap so you're saying the 50% would be better? If Im being perfectly honest when I switch gears to adapt to the grade change my avatar will slow down very unrealistically harshly and slowly compared to real life. What you just described sounds more realistic but I dont want to damage my training effect. Thanks

[@1carusjohn32]

@@morganowens1359 I have a tacx vortex, it has a limit, as do all trainers, to the amount of watts it can deal with. Additionally trainers can deal with the watts easier at higher speeds than lower speeds. There will also be differences due to the manufacturers internal designs. My vortex will probably handle 500w when I am spinning comfortably, but if I am mashing the pedals at 4mph neither the vortex or my rear tire will be happy with 500w. Each machine might have different nuances in how it deals with rates of change of load with varying wheel/ hub speed . Without having numerous devices side by side it will be difficult to say if we are all riding on an even playing field. That said, as long as the number coming out of your trainer in terms of power is accurate, your avatar should progress the same as anyone elses in zwift... with the same body/bike metrics.

[@tylerburgess4398]

Anyone else piece together that it was Jan Frodeno at the top spot of that KOM? Neat. Thanks for clarifying!

[@lucaspardew5668]

Mr. Jan Frodeno with the KOM...nice

[@norbsy]

The way I have always looked at it Shane. The slider just changes your cluster (virtually of course). 100% is an 11-21. 50% is a 12-28 etc etc. I understand it isnt quite as simple, but it seems a fair way to explain it.

[@blimseynoeyes]

Thanks for this helps my head... I’m running 100% and I’ve avoided the alp because I think I’ll run out of gears. I’ll give it a shot and turn it down 👍

[@Enigma71559]

I totally understand how the difficulty works. The only thing I maintain is - at least on my Elite Suito - Max trainer difficulty seems significantly harder than real-life. I have a 52X28 low gear on my bike. In the real world, while tough, I can manage to get up 9-10% grades with the gearing I have. I can't in Zwift. In my lowest gear, a 10% grade is really a stand on the pedals struggle! I tried MAX at first because I wanted the closest thing to a real-world experience. But steep grades are just too much. I've turned it down to about 60% and it's more manageable. Easier than buying a new cassette too.

[@gplama]

This difference could be related to your weight and the protocol you use to connect. If you're using Bluetooth and haven't set that within the Elite MyETraining app, it will be way off if you're well either side of 75kg.

[@aashiqkumandan130]

This is a great video. I would actually say reducing the trainer difficulty to zero is basically like riding a dumb trainer and just using your gearing to produce the watts and in turn creating the resistance. Whereas setting it to 100% is probably the most realistic feel to actually riding on the road. I would probably leave it at 100% for normal training rides and maybe reduce it for races so the gradient changes don’t affect you that much where you need to drop multiple gears and then get dropped.

[@sevenrats]

I use it at 1/4 for races just so there is some shifting but I agree in that if I'm riding on a trainer and racing I don't want to have to shift 4 cogs up and down especially since the bike I use on the trainer has down tube shifters. For regular riding I set it at 1/2. It feels just as realistic to your legs no matter where you set it. It's only your shift hand that feels the difference.

[@mashiro84]

I use to set 100% for everything but in case of very hard climb (like Alpe du Zwift) the perception is much harder than in the real world because you cannot swing the bike helping your legs with the higher part of the body (in particular when you are not sitting). Personally I think that 85-90% is a more precise approximation of the real effort substained by the legs.

[@chrisgraham6031]

@@mashiro84 With the way the trainer difficulty works, you could always change down a gear to get the same affect.

[@mashiro84]

@@chrisgraham6031 When you are ascending the Alpe de Zwift or the final part to the antenna of the Epic KOM maybe you are pushing on the last gear of the cassette. My 34/28 at 65RPM on 14% is very challenging without swinging the bike.

[@huaiwei]

I use the Tacx Neo T2 and with TD at 0%, it certainly does not feel like a dumb trainer at all. There is indeed resistance felt and it changes with the gradient. Since I will naturally want to maintain a reasonable speed when going uphill, the increased work needed comes when I have to increase my cadence to counter the higher resistance. And all these happens without me shifting my gears at all (I typically leave it at the 2nd or 3rd smallest on the back, and the big front for the entire ride).

[@ucdengboss]

This is a concept I understood early on that seems to fool many Zwift riders. I do believe there is one big difference though that does not get talked about too often and that is flywheel inertia. If you are set to 0% difficulty you can climb a 12% grade in what would be a flat road gear, big chain ring. That gear will spin the flywheel faster and therefore give it more inertia. You still do the same amount of watts sure but one is done with low inertia (100% difficulty) and one is done with high inertia (0%). Maybe it is all in my head but high inertia on the trainer always seems easier than low inertia for the same exact power output. Not sure I know how to explain that though...

[@kidsafe]

Many Zwift users aren't technically minded and can't wrap their heads around the fact that Trainer Difficulty actually only modifies the behavior of the smart trainer and not the in-game physics. I recently argued with someone who was adamant that he could descend faster with 100% Trainer Difficulty vs a lower setting even though you and I both know that it's easier to power down a descent when a -10% grade feels like -2.5% (50% TD) vs when it feels like 10% (100% TD) and we are spinning out in our tallest gear combination.

[@saijapz16]

in zwift 50% difficulty i can go uphill at 17kph to 21kph on a 12% gradience for 40mins , in real world 12% gradience i can only do 11kph - 15kph for 40mins , just saying 🤔

[@frajonugu]

i believe so.. i tried it so in less difficulty i felt like i have to pedal more (probably more cadence) to get the same speed/power... i felt like a turtle. when i set it full difficulty i felt like my pedal stroke were more and best representative “in” the game im not agree with this is only a matter of trainer feeling...

[@sevenrats]

@@saijapz16 You can't compare the real world and zwift directly. That has nothing to do with trainer difficulty. It's more a function of wind resistance probably. No matter where you set that slider you're going to get the same result on zwift. You'll just be in different gears and shift less.

[@Mariz650]

50% or 100% i believe it will impact gearing alone. i allways get amazed how effortless it looks for you to go over 300w lol

[@shortbyme-b1l]

Mariz 650 thought the same

[@NoName-nu4vr]

Wrong. It will impact how your legs feel the effort, your cadence will be lower and lactate will rise faster. Less than 100% is just not the real life.

[@Pwn3dbyth3n00b]

@@NoName-nu4vr less than 100% means you're in a lower gear

[@daysetx]

Once I tried to descend with 100% difficulty from radio tower with 1k w short burst. That spinning 20lbs flywheel scared shit out of me and my cat. I never do that again. And that's only half downgradient? OH MY..

[@robhangen2639]

Probably not a good idea to slide to 100 if I'm already pushing 34X28 :)

[@LinkElmore]

Shane, this is the best explanation of the difficulty setting that I've heard/seen yet. Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished. Pandora's box has been opened. At least you'll get the views!

[@michaelsteven1090]

not really..I learned more in the comments..Shane never explains anything with a decent analogy

[@steve0king]

Trainer difficulty slider is the electronic equivalent of a cassette swap. If you put on an easier cassette to get up the hill, then you will need to do more pedal strokes to cover the same distance--because torque x rpm = power.

[@od1koneod171]

My thoughts also. This is why segments and kom's are legit regardless of you setting.

[@delkim3691]

SIMPLE IN ONE SENTENCE: trainer difficulty only means how OFTEN you have to SHIFT! same power, same speed!!!

[@sevenrats]

It changes the gear you will be in to create the correct cadence and power for any particular gradient. At 50%, the gear will be higher, the flywheel will spin faster, your cadence and power are the same and so is the in game speed.

[@davidwebber8028]

Shane, riding my smart rollers I am very happy Zwift does this, otherwise I would not be able to ride down hills as I need resistance to keep pedalling and stay upright.

[@Mixedbydavey]

what are smart rollers?

[@davidwebber8028]

@@Mixedbydavey rollers with adjustable resistance unit - see insideride.com

[@cyclenutter2715]

Sick vid Llama! Wish my content could be as awesome as yours 😀 Keep spitting out more videos, if you'll pardon the pun ;)

[@Fidasaind]

Go to Zwift Rider Facebook page. See one of the 23482348 posts about the slider. Go to this video link Control C Control V Still seems weird to use the word "difficulty" rather than something else. Sure at this point it has become a meme on that group. But I'm sure there are plenty of people that truly do think you directly go faster/slower based on that slider. Also strange that they halve it going down. I mean I get it but it seems they could just have 2 separate sliders. One for up, one for down. And the default set to 100% for up and 50% for down. I'd probably set mine to about 90% up most of the time (simply due to using wheel on trainer and my trainer wheel has a an 11/28 cassette while my outdoor has an 11/32) and would probably set down to like 20% (so I could feel some change just for immersion but I'd honestly rather just keep pedaling) Or in group rides (to avoid surging) I'd set around 25% up and 0% down.

[@gplama]

I'm hesitant to spam/share my videos over there these days. As you say, it's more a source of memes than being the helpful community it once was.

[@Fidasaind]

@@gplama Not wrong. I finally had to hide the page despite the numerous helpful posts from people like you and others. Or seeing people in similar positions to mine making progress (struggling with weight and using cycling as a way to enjoy a different lifestyle). The recent spike in difficulty slider stuff was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I honestly wanted to cheer for people that get stronger (and therefore FTP increases) and could either like or ignore those posts. But the sheer volume of slider posts made it too hard to find things worth seeing now. Kind of jealous of the ladies. My wife has told me how useful Zwift Women group is. Sure we get a spike in activity on the Dimension Data group during ZA, but otherwise it is just tens of thousands of people posting the same 10-20 things on the main page now. On the bright side there's still your and Ray's videos for the useful side of all things indoor cycling. And sometimes it can be fun to dive down that rabbit hole on Facebook for a bit.

[@WillPower46]

I use my at 50% so that I don't have to shift to the small ring at the front up steeper hills. This means I hardly ever have to shift chainrings making for a much nicer gaming experience.

[@huaiwei]

Mine was at 0% and my gear is permanently on the second fastest gear, including up steep hills. I too, prefer that experience as I adjust my speed using my cadence rather than the gears.

[@EverythingWasGreat]

I felt that my trainer couldnt cope with fast changes to slope. It was like hitting a brick wall 20 m before the climb and loosing all resistance 20 m before a crest. By lowering the trainer difficulty the transitions got just as smooth as in reality. Im using a Elite Zumo.

[@donwcollins]

Huh?! 🤷‍♂️

[@nick_velokicks]

Love a video explaining it...only for all the comments to then try and explain it. Again 😂

[@fhdabd9638]

Wonderful if Zwift adds shortcut for difficulty on screen or companion, easier for manipulating the ride instead of 3 , 4 steps to adjust it

[@stephenjacob2378]

I just worked some thing out I am to Dumb for a Smart Trainer😁👍.

[@kalebwood6866]

video anda sangat bagus dan mempunyai mesej yang luas terima kasih

[@jbratt]

Is he really doing 300-400 watts while talking ?

[@rickiesimpson4048]

JBratt thought the exact same thing. That is my zone 7

[@timcorso6337]

He's using metric watts, I guess you must be using imperial :-)

[@keithdenton8386]

No HR can't tell.

[@peterkuiper5363]

And smiling 😅

[@garethev5866]

Just as I started Zwifting ;)

[@thisstuschannel]

I would never climb alpe d'Huez with a 39/25 and have no need to have a compact irl so set mine At about 60% Would an idea not be able to input your bikes gear irl and what you want to ride in game then Zwift calculates an effective %?

[@gplama]

That’d be neat. The Kickr bike (and Neos) could take this a step further with their virtual flywheel too. The other day I switched Kickr Bike virtual gears to a climbing setup for Innsbruck. That was neat. It would be great to do that in-game though. More integration!

[@Anhjje]

Did they intentionally leave out a numeric value so you never know if you're on 50%? :D

[@dskordo]

Shane is showing off that tan! Thanks for the vid!

[@timdezesde]

Hoi,is het true? My tack neo2 T,is much harder then my elite direto...

[@dumspirosperofilms2273]

10% uphill and you still talking well!!?!?!?!?!?! :)

[@duncabiscuit]

How do you get so many thumbs up ride ons? They just keep coming.

[@kevinbrogle4825]

During zwift races it's much easier to maintain watts on decent with trainer set to zero. It's a good idea for Zwift to make that setting fixed for races.

[@sevenrats]

If you have the slider set to 100% you just have to shift up to maintain watts.

[@erikknudsen4034]

That's gotta be a record for ride ons.

[@rightonewheel4u322]

Why does my avatar always get a drink of water and always sitting up?

[@jeffmorgan5152]

If I knew then what I know now...With most of my outdoor miles spent climbing in Colorado I went compact a few years ago. When I finally got onto Zwift and bought the smart trainer last fall I also picked up a new compact crank for one of my older bikes to mirror my regular outdoor ride while training indoors. I could have saved some money and hassle by simply reducing the difficulty a bit with the standard crank for the same result.

[@philadams9254]

How is 3% half of 10%?

[@oldsap]

there's something wrong with my Kickr Core, my power is always less than half of everyone else's :D :D :D

[@gplama]

Ahhhh! Maybe you got the single sided Kickr CORE. The CORE-S? ;)

[@martinsmith5908]

So the speed in relation to watts on the climb stays the same, it just feels easier because there is less resistance?

[@gplama]

Exactly. 👍🏼

[@USCyclist]

Shane Miller - GPLama - So then are we cheating ourselves so to speak by keeping the slider around 50%?

[@norbsy]

@@USCyclist In what way? You still have to put out the power to move your avatar. Whether it is on 100% or 50%, you still have to put out a said wattage to move at a said speed up an incline.

[@ajaxwalker]

@@norbsy You can cheat yourself up steep climbs by having a higher cadence. On steep climbs i'm on the lowest gear with a cadence of 55, it would be a lot easier if my cadence was near 90 for the same power output.

[@Amoreme75]

By the sounds of things, if you are a high cadence sort of person, a lower difficulty setting would suit your riding style (in real life you probably would use easier gears and higher cadence anyway). Whilst being a grinder, you'd do better with a higher difficulty setting. A lower difficulty setting may help increase your cadence whilst a higher difficulty setting would help build some leg strength (assuming you are flicking through gears at a rapid rate to keep your cadence the same for the required watts). I haven't ever adjusted my difficulty, I'm trying to master the setting and learn how different efforts impact my avatar and my body. One thing I am struggling with is sprinting. In real life I can sprint pretty well, in Zwift at the end of a race I am struggling. I drop down gears and stand up, I feel that maybe if the difficulty setting was lower, I could stay seated and just increase my cadence and spin that flywheel at a rapid rate to produce higher watts (even though my muscles wouldn't feel like they were being hurt as much)..?? Would be interested what setting the guys who consistently win fast races are at and whether they use high cadence to sprint or a big gear...

[@seandonnelly5984]

Hi gplama it’s Sean this is the video I was asking you the question on about the Wattbike atom thank for getting back

[@jamesoren7238]

Fantastic vid! Actually knowing that it's telling the trainer a different gradient helps SO much with understanding this pain in the arse setting. Although having used zwift for 2 whole weeks now I can already tell this half of a half thing was an unintended outcome from sloppy design that they probably won't fix, lol. I'm loving zwift, but damn the coding appears to be garbage.

[@glenngundermann2433]

There is another setting for wheel circumference. Is this used for wheel-on trainers only or all trainers? What exactly is this used for? My tri bike has 650 wheels but I'm using a Wahoo Kickr with direct drive.

[@gplama]

It'll change the speed (and therefore recorded distance) reported directly from the trainer. This is independent of whatever software you're using that likely does its own speed/distance calculations.

[@tumbleweedking5668]

If you do Zwift racing, a 0% difficulty allows you to stay in your big chainring for most of the races. The main reason alot of people do it. As for the trainer warrior comments I guess you would have to ask the guy who won Paris Roubaix after exclusive Zwift training.

[@darinsteele7091]

I did a race the other day at 0% and you have to keep pedaling constantly and can't coast downhills, i ended up in vo2 for 20 mins and i was toast. The resistance never comes down with 0%. In a real race you are able to take your foot off the pedals sometimes and at 0% it doesn't let off.

[@donwcollins]

If we’re trying to emulate real life, why not just keep it on 100%? There is no 50% in real life… I guess 50% is walking up the hill?

[@gplama]

Real life is too hard sometimes. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤣

[@bikedawg]

Always so informative and educational---thanks for the great video !! 💖

[@chrisdinsmore1665]

If it is halving the % grade of the decent, why do I end up requiring pushing a bigger gear to keep from spinning out when going downhill? Seems like it would be just the opposite.

[@gplama]

5% in-game becoming a 2.5% gradient simulation sent to your trainer means you're less likely to spin out on the virtual downhills.

[@spirro78]

So is anything less than 100% cheating?

[@gplama]

No. That's like claiming someone with better gearing up a hill is cheating.

[@TheUltimateULTRA]

0:18 Hopefully no shane millers were harmed in the making of this video (I expect a few broken noses)

[@wakeywarrior]

So is there an advantage to one setting over another for racing say?

[@gplama]

It depends… having more resistance to push against on a downhill is an advantage. You still have to produce the power though.

[@RichMaciverPhoto]

Ok so it doesn't make it "easier". Thanks Shane, needed that clearing up :)

[@kmcm2680]

Nonchalantly chats about trainer difficulty while holding 300+watts 😃💪👍

[@gplama]

While slowly dying a horrible death on the inside. 💀

[@davepratt9909]

Ah, that is why my Climb never seems to nose dive like I thought it should. Thanks

[@Zzyyxx22]

I’m more confused now than I was. So if I’m riding up epic kom at 90rpm doing 250w what’s the difference to me between say 50 and 100%? Is it just I’m in a different gear physically on the bike? I’ve just always had it set about 75%.

[@gplama]

Watch the video linked to in the description.

[@ratcat104]

Dude ,for my opinion is, make your gear ratio as same as the difficulty sensation!if u use 53-39 11-25,it might very hard to choose “MAX” because you gonna down your RPM ,than you cannot hold that for long and it will be failure , but if you slide the button into the middle, The sensation of gear ratio may be down to 11-28 ,which mean the same gear suddenly much easier to make output, as the same theory,if you move to the MIN.the gear sensation might 11-32 !however, if you watch the video, the presenter with different heart rate and RPM,when he demonstrate max middle min.

[@osmarq3435]

I'm set on 50% and I was always wondering why I've never dropped to the small ring on my climbs. When I got outdoors and hit anything above 6%, I hit the front derailleur and roll on my 36. 11-28. Well I'll try 100 % and see what happens

[@sevenrats]

But it doesn't matter what gear you're in to your legs for any particular power. The lower difficulty is just providing half the resistance to the wheel of the bike. You are setting your gearing to the correct cadence and resistance to your legs. The game is setting the speed based on that. Outside is like the 100% setting but once you select the gearing it should feel the same to your legs and the speed should be similar.

[@ashterfadgadget817]

@@sevenrats Disagree. When you are set to lower difficulty in game, it's easier to maintain higher cadence. Training at 100% difficulty prepares you better for real word cycling - climbing in particular. Try going up to the Radio Tower from bottom of the Epic KOM at 50%, then try it at 100%. A lot of people will run out of gears, just as in the real world and then you just have to grind it out. Spinning up there on the big ring with the trainer at 30% isn't an option IRL.

[@osmarq3435]

@@ashterfadgadget817 yes all this does is adjust your cassette gearing.

[@davem3636]

@@osmarq3435 Exactly.

[@RoryMacdonald-pfff]

Other than some speculation, I’m still none the wiser on ‘why’ this feature is there. I’d rather there was an option to turn that (poorly named) tuning off completely, for both up and downhill.

[@USCyclist]

Rory Macdonald - Agreed. Why even have this feature? If your going up a 10% grade than that’s what you and everyone else’s resistance should feel like!

[@jasonahlstrom769]

Ace Because grinding up a mountain at 60rpm in my easiest gear with no place to go for any respite except dropping down to 50rpm isn't fun. At 80% trainer difficulty I still have a couple of gears to play with and some cadence options.

[@MrSuicycle]

Some trainers can't reproduce inclines as high as 15% or even 17%. So this setting allows these users to still feel a difference, when the incline goes over their trainers capabilities (like 8%). Also some trainers tend to overheat on low flywheel speeds, so by lowering the TD you increase the effective flywheel speed and therefore the cooling effect (for those trainers, which have a fan attached to the flywheel). Also, it might make it easier to use an old 8-speed bike for Zwift - or to replicate the same gearing / cadence you would have outside.

[@jeffshaull1704]

It would make more sense to double the gradient on descent when difficult is on half than to reduce it. I always stay on max. Why not just send the same value to the trainer as what is displayed? The point is to simulate reality as close as possible. I hope zwift will make this an option. Still the best online simulation and the power based training is incredible.

[@davidrowe8747]

As Shane explained at the end, it's because many bikes would run out of high gears, so you would be unable to generate much wattage. In real life, it might be desirable to stop pedalling and just coast, but I think for a lot of people on Zwift, they have Wattage targets they want to reach.

[@fattiredbiker4012]

For me it's all about opening up more hilly courses for my riding enjoyment, without completely blowing myself up, or overstressing my knees. My approach is to decide what I want my minimum cadence to be going up a long hill (for me 70-75rpm). Then what is the lowest gear I want to have to shift into on the bike to maintain that cadence for at least 20 minutes. Set difficulty accordingly.

[@delkim3691]

If you do not want to stress your knees then STOP low cadence riding. There is no reason to do 60 rpm uphill even in real life outside!

[@fattiredbiker4012]

@@delkim3691 Sure, so pick a climbing cadence number that works for you and set difficulty accordingly. That was my absolute minimum while climbing only. I'm a mountain biker so I tend to mash anyway :)

[@YeNZeC]

@@fattiredbiker4012 SPIN TO WIN ! 90+ Cadence.

[@fattiredbiker4012]

BK CheZ Thanks for the advice. So sure, put whatever cadence number you want in there, my point was an approach to set trainer difficulty based on whatever your lowest desired cadence is, in the lowest gear you want to shift to while climbing a significant extended climb.

[@jasonahlstrom769]

This is exactly how I use the feature. I typically change the difficulty setting before every ride depending on which course I've selected. I like to have gear and cadence flexibility.

[@caseyfitzpatrick5024]

I don't have the difficulty slider in the menu?

[@gplama]

This only appears when a smart trainer is paired as the 'controllable' trainer sensor in Zwift.

[@psd9850]

Still don't get it.

[@garyeanes4747]

I've always understood the Trainer Difficulty setting to be a way to "virtually" change ones gearing ratios. The bike on my Wahoo is geared 54/42 - 11x25. Absolutely perfect gearing for me on the flat rollers in the real world here in Central Texas. But, there's simply no way I could ride up the Alp de Zwift with that kind of gearing at my age (51). I'd have to swap out the cogs at minimum and likely go with a compact chainset. I don't want to change out my chainset and cogs for a ride like that. So, the trainer difficulty turned down to 50% makes it "feel" like I've done that though. Would it be cheating in real life to use my gravel bike and it's ratios (42t - 10x44) to go up the real Alp d'Huez vs using my road bike with it's ratios (54/42 - 11x25)? This is where I think the confusion comes in. No one would say that because I'm riding different gearing on my gravel bike that the slopes I'm climbing are somehow less because of that. Yet, that's what people on Zwift sure seem to think.

[@ScottYarosh]

At zero trainer difficulty you can basically single speed races and pedal harder downhill. It's a big advantage.

[@huaiwei]

Dosen't feel that way. I find that at zero difficulty, I need to put out more power to match people's speeds, and often cannot catch them as I max out the gears. When I increased trainer difficulty, it is harder, but I move faster uphill. In other words, it is still a significant workout either way, unless one is content at going at 3kmh uphill.

[@kidscharles]

But so does that mean your elevation will be lower at the top of hill?

[@gplama]

Nothing changes in-game.

[@NoName-nu4vr]

Feeling only... no performance difference - Right. Complete non sense to place it at 50% by default... Speaking of reality, why not placing it at 100% by default and not adjustable? (There is no shame having to stand up on the saddle if the hill% is too challenging). After all, why training with fake feelings? When back on the road truth will be painful for some people.

[@MartinPreus]

where is normal.? in the middle 🙂

[@frankvdbroek]

I don't put it on 100% because when I'm descending and going about 65-80 km/h in game I am riding 53-14 irl. Then when the gradient rises in game (i.e. the Epic KOM descent) my trainer resistance increases based on the in game gradient, and I have to shift to 39-23 super fast (which would mean 20 km/h @90 rpm) for me to keep a comfortable cadence, while my character is still doing 40+ km/h. This could just be me exaggerating, or they should add some adjustment for momentum in the game.

[@ridesofjapan]

Clear as crystal, cheers Shane! Buuuuuut, I’m sure this must have been brought up before... riding with higher or full difficulty will be more “difficult” by the simple fact that you need to shift more (In my limited experience) Another thing I noticed regarding descents, after I foolishly joined a race, racing up a steep hill cresting over to a steep descent it was impossible to keep the power up going down at full difficulty and keep up with the bunch even with my fastest gear. Of course being on 1x is my own damn fault but I would still need to sprint like a maniac compared to a fellow racing on 10% sitting in the middle of the cassette the whole race. Not complaining though... just an observation, having a lot of fun with this, especially at max trainer difficulty. Looking forward to all your little zwift tip videos now🙏

[@AB-fh9zh]

And not all trainers give the same experience on a given setting; on my Elite Drivo2, 100% setting means a crazy amount of shifting as the changes are so large and abrupt. On a Neo for example, this is less the case. Set it to whatever feels best for what you want to do.

[@NormAusSmith]

I agree with you, but I don't think most people understand that fact. Setting the difficulty to 100 ONLY means you have to change gears more often.

[@kyungi1]

@@AB-fh9zh Agreed I have the Elite Drivo and at %100 the hills kick in like crazy meaning having to shift or you won't be able to turn the pedals lol.

[@kyungi1]

Oh yea and at the %100 setting meaning you have to shift more on the hills means its harder 🤷‍♂️

[@fhdabd9638]

Rides of Japan 100% difficulty hills pull out your power to move 0% manage your power by your self to move on the hills

[@Rubibi-saltwaterjim]

I want to know what his heart rate is at a sustained 300W, because he's hardly breathing... im 2m and 130kg, going up 8% i'm definitely struggling, hills aren't friendly to me, but I still love them. I do quite well going downhill, love gravity assistance.

[@cioxide]

it should working with flat also, because i have MTB XC bike, where cassete 10-50t and one star on front 38t. I'm constantly on small stars and arrange all workouts in the mountains. Only ERG mode saves me with Tacx neo 2t...

[@jpprovost64]

we still need the same Power ? to go up at 0 or 100% ?

[@gplama]

Yes

[@davidkelly4400]

Brah, you need to set up charity to share your Ride Ons with those of us who are less fortunate.

[@gordonmckenzie9453]

But... why...?

[@StuartLynne]

The only control that Zwift has to control the trainer resistance is the virtual elevation. The trick in all this is that the wheel speed on your bike is not the same as the wheel speed for your in-game bike. Changing the resistance changes the effective wheel speed for your real bike based on the watts you are putting out. Lower resistance allows higher wheel speed, higher resistance means lower wheel speed. This translates through your gearing to set the cadence your legs see. In practice, just like with a car, you want to match your torque curve at specific RPM's to optimize the power output. Typically you will put out (comfortably) highest watts for longest when your cadence is between about 60-100 RPM. You can do that with gearing alone or with gearing plus changing the trainer difficulty.

[@mikeymoolane6026]

Nice and clear. So whatever 'difficulty' setting, the downhill speed if not pedaling, or even in supertuck, would remain the same....

[@CanTURKeyed]

hi; is it still same in 2022 ? if no ; whats the sense?

[@gplama]

Same same.

[@baronvonhoughton]

I'm dumb.

[@prestachuck2867]

So basically there is no way to get a realistic ride load simulation from Zwift. You can make the climbs feel somewhat realistic, but the descents will never be correct. Interesting.

[@puro52]

so me doing everything on 100% gave me jack all, except the feeling of supperiority over ppl riding on lowest weight

[@jordanrundell9962]

Trainer difficulty Zero Gang Represent! Was tired of having to shift down 17 gears (With the power loss associated with a gear change) while cresting a hill in a zwift race. WHile everyone else riding at Zero difficulty gets to apply constant power.

[@JamesBoz]

Is this why I get dropped on downhills even at 80kg! - I have my difficulty set to max.

[@JuggernautMTB]

I know you covered this in an early video but I just wanted to confirm. The default difficulty slider setting is somewhere around 50% so it’s only sending half the resistance to the trainer. Got that part. It’s my belief that the avatars progress is strictly watts based, in other words, it may feel like half as much....but the avatars speed during the climb is that of x watts at the actual grade/rider weight so the avatar is moving slower that you’d expect with a halved resistance. God, this is the worst worded question ever. Sorry 😐

[@gplama]

Yes. If I understand your question. 👍🏼

[@rigster2]

That's kind of what I was trying to get across :-)

[@vincem5]

so to get down ADZ fast it would be best to put the trainer difficulty to near zero to be able to still make power ( and have gears still) as apposed to 50 or 100%. hmmm new things to try out :)

[@robertg.5932]

You will not go faster i think because your gearing will run out like outside.

[@vincem5]

@@robertg.5932 my understanding from shanes video is if i put it down to near zero difficulty that would make it feel like a 1 or 2% slope so i shouldnt have that issue. i shall test tomorrow morning :)

[@robertg.5932]

O.k. make a test, i tested it with 50/100% down adz always the same time, about 11min without pedaling on neo.

[@vincem5]

Robert G. I tried it on zero and going off the top I didn’t feel the descent. So I could be in the muddle of the cassette going down and pump out 3 to 400 watts. I stopped half way and made it 100% and I had to be in the highest gear just to make 300 Watts peddling quite fast.