Zwift Race | Dropped in Cat B within 10 Mins

Cat B was super tough last night with a hard hilly Richmond course. This one really burnt me off and off the back of this ive decided to take a bit of a de-load week.
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[@ericbarfell]

Cat B IS out of hand...has been out of hand for a month or two now. I see the complaints up and down my KZbin feed. I (happily) got demoted to Cat C the other day, and my confidence in that race was restored!! hahaha keep up the good work!

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

It was great to finally race with you in this Max! I went too hard on the first two climbs and got dropped on the third climb like you did (I'm in the yellow TFC kit). Those climbs really were savage, great job hanging in there as long as you did 👊💪💪💪

[@thewattlife]

@MarkyMarkZwifts ah man, that was such a savage race but good to line up together. Will you do it again this week? Im going to give it another shot

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

@@thewattlife I might give it another go if I get the chance. It would be good to see what it's like to race it outside of prime time. I'll keep an eye out for you 👀

[@oling2812]

You're absolutely right that Cat B is getting a bit silly these days. Would really love some sort of categroy in between C and B. I've done 2 races so far and got category enforced to Cat B straight out the gate but really would've loved to start in Cat C. Placed 16/24 finishers in my first race and my time would have won the Cat A by 30 seconds which I find mindblowing. Additionally, on my first race, one of the guys did 5.0 W/kg though admittedly a 45kg rider. I'm convinced there's a lot of sandbagging / cheating going on but also a lot of guys who are just really really strong and have a lot more time to train. Don't be too hard on yourself - this was a really great effort!

[@1carusjohn32]

Problem is it is purely w/kg based. Irl I ride the sh** out of 90kg+ guys on hills and rolling, even sprint, but TT they are epic with 350-400 w ftp. So as far as cat' goes it is not that straight forward. Zwift ptedictor already attempts to predict a likely outcome... so something like that should be used for cats.

[@oling2812]

Agree - it doesn't really feel like zwift is a good reflection of reality and seems to be quite biased towards heavier riders. What's even weirder is that the category enforcements are primarily done on W/Kg basis yet race outcomes on anything other than very hilly courses seem to be primarily won on raw watts. Every time I hit an incline I don't feel like it's anywhere near as hard for a given gradient as it is IRL. There's no way I can just cruise at nearly 30kph up a 5% gradient IRL as I do on Zwift... it just doesn't happen.

[@kswissu72]

Fab effort. The rolling terrain is tough if you don't have 2 or 3-minute sustained power. I learnt that when I did the first stage. I'll be praying when I do this on Saturday morning. I'm only averaging 3.5 watts per race! But, I'm on a journey, let's see where I am in September. If you want to win you've got to be prepared to lose!!! Keep going Max :)

[@bitminerbob6731]

Also if you've not tried steering, do it. It's a game-changer. Won a B grade Neokyo crit last night (zwiftpower race result was 165) and that was my first race with steering. You can reposition yourself if you're being pushed to the edge, where you're taking more air and getting less draft. If you run Zwift sauce you can add the drafting data % on the screen too and you'd be amazed at how less efficient the drafting is on the edge of the cone. With steering you can push back into the middle of the cone, for a better draft. You can also push into the back wheel of the rider on the front, to stay in his draft and not go off the front too. That is very handy. You can also sprint hard left or hard right and others can't draft your wheel, unless they also have steering. I won the sprint last night by cutting the last corner and sprinting hard left. No one could draft me and I went faster through the corner. The corner cutting is pretty noticeable too.

[@milkherd]

Great effort and so close to getting to the top of that climb with the leaders. Looking forward to seeing your next attempt!

[@thewattlife]

Ha I only realised just how close I was after rewatching this!!! Frustrating but I just didn’t have it in me

[@darrenvandit]

Max as a B rider, it's become a madness in B cat.. holding on after the first climbs is already a mega achievement especially during prime time events! Was watching the stream live through Mark Alford's KZbin channel & it was absolute carnage out there

[@thewattlife]

Yeah, i do enjoy the tough races but things are for sure getting a bit crazy with the prime time events. They are just a bump up on normal races... this one being especially hard

[@foreveryoung8097]

Good racing Max. You should keep in mind that this course is not really flat like the other races you’ve been doing earlier so is harder to keep up. Next week is the The Muckle Yin and that is another hard race!

[@thewattlife]

I’m massively looking forward to this as I’ve never made it over the Muckle Yin with the front group!!!

[@frankschaack]

Thanks for the video! Helped me to analyze, that I was dropped after about 2 minutes an 30 seconds 😂

[@thewattlife]

@frankschaack It was just a savagely fast race!!!! No place to hide

[@YerenRosie]

This race was absolutely brutal for me. I managed to stick with the lead group until the top of the third "climb" kicker. There was a 100kg 389watt average "cat b" (even though his profile pic was absolutely not 100kg) rider pushing the pace extremely hard. Did not drop below 4.5w/kg the entire race. I had to push so hard to stay with the group up those climbs that when I eased off slightly after completing the third climb, my stomach/abs/core muscles all immediately cramped up and I couldn't breath. Taking even a small shallow breath was hard as my diaphram was instantly seizing and pushing the air out. For some reason, I've heard from friends that this route has been particularly brutal in Cat B this week. We aren't alone. A lot of sandbaggers it seems.

[@glennicol1361]

Cat B has been rather crazy recently with guys doing 7-9 wkg for extended periods of time on climbs and then when I try to check their profile after the race their profile is almost always set to private.

[@thewattlife]

You have hit the nail on the head- its always people with closed profiles lol

[@aaronpower8741]

It was a very challenging lead in. For my race, I also got dropped by the 3rd climb, along with many others. Our second group was still going fairly strong but we were 1 minute behind the lead as we crossed the 5km-to-go "start line". We'd lost a minute before the race even started LOL

[@teddysvenneskog4553]

You did good! 54th place for me! 4.1 W/kg 307watt AVG at 75kg. I did a turn after your friend tried to catch the front rider! But it took me out aswell before the end! Great Racing!

[@fwschnaar3179]

Agreed… I’ve been trying really hard to get my Cat C back… I was never so disappointed when Zwift bumped me to a B ! At my age last thing I wanted was a B upgrade! 😢🥵🥵🚴‍♀️🚴‍♂️🚴‍♀️🚴‍♂️

[@thewattlife]

Haha its a tough upgrade! Hope you get to drop back down soon, im not sure i have any tips on how to do that

[@brianbarnes59]

was in this race yesterday and hands down was the hardest one I have done so far. did everything I could just to stay in the front group until the finish.

[@thewattlife]

It felt that way for me too. In terms of just sustained power on the long climb, i was well out my depth

[@glennicol1361]

I thought I would mention this here... Just looked at Adam Yates profile on Zwift... His most recent Zwift race he did 5.2 wkg for 51 minutes! Pretty crazy!

[@1carusjohn32]

Max, had the mother of all races on the 7th, totally diabolical. Happens to us all. Last night bagged a really good effort for me on london tripple loops with PB's up Box and Leith. Got 1300 vam up leith too! Again, for me thst is as good as it gets these days. Looking at your stream... it is time for some rest I think. Maybe skip the bike next week and enjoy the running.😀

[@thewattlife]

@1carusjohn32 I appreciate the message John and you are bang on, but a little too late. Ive already decided to have a de-load week and skipped the run today and will really drop the intensity and volume this week. I already put in a PB performance this evening in ZRL after not running today and will have a very chilled week and aim to come back stronger next week. Glad you've followed up a tough race with some nice PB's, good to realise that we need time away to recover and come back faster

[@VeloViking]

Good effort in spite getting dropped 🙂 I didn’t sign up for yesterday’s race because as you said you need fresh legs for these races and I went skiing for a total of 12 hours this weekend! Can hardly walk the steps 🤪

[@thewattlife]

You had a lucky escape. It was terribly hard last night

[@jeppzki]

I was in that race to! I tought it would be an easy race… manage to stay in the front group but dropped right befors the finish, was absolute done!

[@kathtomk]

We literally had an identical race🥵 😆. I wish I'd saved the legs for ZRL tonight now though 🥴

[@specialblorb]

GR Max and nice anticipation kicking at 03:40 (video time) to make the split. I reacted with too little too late. I had just hit L39 and couldn't resist trying the DT discs. I might try again with Zipp 858 to compensate for my relative weakness on those punchy climbs.

[@thewattlife]

@specialblorb Now that i know whats par for the course on this route ill give it another go later in the week and i imagine it might be a little easier but still brutal

[@O.O85]

That was horrendous! You’re right, that pull on the front was the end of me 😂 Have never ridden that course, and thought the hills were over, hence the guy riding off the front - nope 😅 Might try another go on Saturday, but I got ill again after Monday nights effort, so need to get over that first Good luck on attempt two

[@thewattlife]

Was a bravo and equally foolish pull man. I appreciated it lol

[@Oggymandias]

I feel your pain. I got dropped after 15 min in B on Saturday. Just brutal.

[@mjaynz]

Best thing I've learnt is to trust the draft. It's bigger than you think

[@boomcerdena]

Massive effort, Max!!! 🤘🏻

[@cgmlcs]

As a B cat racer, I have experienced the fast racing that shows either how strong the riders are or how messed up Zwiftpower cats are. Zwiftpower refuses to fix the categories, I was forced into A cat with a 4.2 ftp where I got destroyed. After working less hard and doing shorter races I got downgraded and I can usually stay in the front group. IRL I’d be a cat 4 at best!

[@bitminerbob6731]

Yeah, I checked out this course profile and it was a no-go for me. I'm a 95kgs sprinter so there was no way I was getting up over those climbs with the front.

[@600m]

I’ve said it since they switch up to the zmap determining categories B has become the mid to low A of before. Everyone who was low A has now become a B. I was in this race with you hung on for 22

[@DontGetDroppedCycling]

Zwift racing at it's finest! 👌🏽

[@thewattlife]

@DontGetDroppedCycling This might have promoted me to take some time off... legs were truly broken

[@coolhandluke1978]

To be bumped to A a Cat B rider would need an FTP >4.2wkg (so around 4.5wkg for 20mins) and 5min power >5.1wkg …. Roughly.

[@thewattlife]

Yeah those numbers are BIG and if those people actually did an FTP test or a run up Alpe du Zwift then they would most likely be upgraded anyway

[@drewbuffington]

Of course it’s over 4.0 w/kg… it’s a 10mile race guys. Last night I raced a 35min ZRL race in the A category and many many people stayed in the entire race below 4w/kg. Race more, get better at drafting, get more efficient with your power. If you’re falling off the back in your category it’s likely because of your own mistakes, not everyone else being too strong or cheating.

[@thewattlife]

There are a few nuances to this- Last night in ZRL it was a scratch race with no GC so its raced very differently. Lap three was a kick about until the Leg Snapper then it was turbo to the finish. Zracing Monthly events are GC, so they tend to be turbo for the whole event with little down time. I agree though, being 4w/kg is the norm and nothing wrong with that for 20-40 min races, just saying that more and more people are able to ride that hard and it makes for tough races

[@drewbuffington]

@@thewattlifeI think efficiency is always going to be key. No matter the race dynamics and course. I don’t so much mean you as a do the average zwifter who will gain tons of advantage from just learning how to draft on the guy doing 4.3 the whole race.

[@jesikat]

I feel like the fact that most races these days are so short means that riders don't get upgraded as often as they would do if the races were much closer to/in excess of an hour long.

[@thewattlife]

I agree. It feels like they are deliberately under 40 mins which helps people avoid a Cat upgrade

[@eddiehowington8766]

Did a B race the other day with 20 other riders and finished 14th. Had a 3.9 W/kg. Not mad tho it will just make me stronger hopefully.

[@thewattlife]

Definitely will- some races are just brutal

[@alistairoswin7787]

Looked like a tough one. Was it just one of those races? How’s the recovery been since the race.

[@thewattlife]

Good question- so I had done 14km running on Monday so I was kind of hoping it was just a bit of fatigue. I races ZRL last night and placed 12th with some power PB’s as well. Going to have a reload week this week and drop volume and intensity. Hopefully numbers and HR should jump back up next week but I think it was just an off day where I was asking a lot from myself

[@123dwd]

this looks tough.. you should jump in a B TT like i did last night, there were 3 of us and i got my first win ever (@3.6 avg) cheers

[@regnismada4936]

how did the arm strap go? i have been using one and am wondering if it's giving me a lower reading than normal. Considering grabbing a chest strap

[@pauldyerdyer2731]

A race to be avoided!!! lol

[@mariovr8416]

Sounds like 50 sandbaggers avoiding cat a. 🍗

[@harryparkinson]

I don't know how they stay in B. ZP puts me in A. I am the bottom of A so get a beating every time! Would prefer to race in B 320w ftp / 70kg

[@phydomir909]

I really think these races are just to short. Because they are so short, they tend to favor riders with a relatively high anaerobic capacity. Just keep on bombing because it is over in 25mins. So, when you're like you, training hard for multiple disciplines, you're just not gonna survive it. Really hoping Zwift will introduce a series like this, but with race around 90mins. Then you have to dose your efforts a bit more.

[@Horstelin]

Try out Flamme rouge, Most stages between 90min-2h

[@thewattlife]

I know that ZRL tends to have longer races which make it a little more manageable. Im throwing down tonight so will see how it goes

[@DolittleDonothing]

how was your warm up?

[@thewattlife]

@user-it8pb1xr8x You mean before this race? It was good, i usually get 15-20 mins and do a few short efforts to get the lactate going but leave at least 10-12 mins before the start for lactate clearance.

[@Eragonking53]

100+ cat B riders are same as cat A

[@thewattlife]

I might have to jump into a Cat A before the Summer just to see

[@chapmandu2]

4.30 W/kg for 20 mins is what it would take someone in a B race to get upgraded to a Cat A...

[@thewattlife]

Yeah- and these races are most likely a bit borderline for that so I can see how people don’t end up upgraded

[@chapmandu2]

⁠I think that if you want to get upgraded you would have to ride in the category above, unless you go on a crazy attack off the front I think it would be hard to get upgraded on a B cat ride unless it had a huge hill climb for 20+ mins!!

[@xiaojunjun]

Maxi BPM is only 166?😮

[@thewattlife]

Hey Jun- yeah this is actually quite low for me and i have a max of 176. Im a bit older at 41 so struggle with high heart rates. I might have been fatigued

[@xiaojunjun]

@@thewattlife hi， thank you for reply me. I am 44, also struggling with high heart rates😂😇in Cat B. But normally when i am dropped, i have reached my maxi bpm. But in your video, you have 10 margin when you dropped, i am only curious, why did this happen.

[@xiaojunjun]

@@thewattlife excuse me for my poor English. I hope there is no misunderstanding that i am laughing at you. I am also training and sometimes racing by zwift. There are so much similarities between you and me, so i see your video as see a close friend.

[@thewattlife]

@xiaojunjun No problem happy to chat. I train 2x a day, so sometimes when i race my body is already tired and also my aerobic system can already be quite stressed so often when i race im not 100% rested and ready. This means there are times when i cannot physically work hard enough with my muscles to get my heart rate up to this level. When i take time off (maybe 2-4 days) and then come back to cycling i can usually quite easily get my heart rate to 172-175. So before i actually do a real life event i take time off and reduce intensity and volume.

[@xiaojunjun]

@@thewattlife oh right. I think i have found the answer: I am training not so hard like you.🤣🤣