Thanks heaps, I watched the video (a little late I'm afraid) and I'm getting better results now. Thanks for the tip, I also tried Barkeeper's Friend and could not believe how easy it made ceramic cleanup!!! Cheers.

Love you too Olive!!! Hope you are doing well. Looking forward to seeing you soon, thanks for the comment!

Amen to that - this thing is amazing. I was thoroughly impressed.

Oh that's interesting!!! I already sent this back, so can't confirm, but that's fascinating. I wonder why they do it...

@@homeslicesharpening If memory serves, I think the tip was reserved for more delicate work like skinning and carving. Makes for a versatile blade, if one doesn't bang it up like I did !

Thanks! I love mine, hope you enjoy!

Yeah, I am always trying to get it sharper though, lol!

No problem sir, thanks for the comment. All the best in your sharpening endeavors!

Yeah, I love the design so much! So efficient, and the steel seems really tough. But yeah, the steel is so springy and tough because it's a bit soft. Not a big deal on a chopper generally, and it's a wonderful tool, but yeah, edge retention is mediocre.

Yeah, I'd definitely recommend it. Present top recommendations for an all purpose lightweight chopper are Condor Bushcraft Parang or I just got Varusteleka's Terava Skrama which is just as good, just as lightweight and comes at a similar price, depending on currency conversion rates. I checked out your channel, sweet kayaking videos! I am jealous of your stamina and resistance to the cold!!! Haha! All the best.

You're back!!! It's great to hear from you, how have you been my friend? I am not quite there, but BESS in the 80's is pretty normal for me. I think I don't take enough time to get the edge flow right like you do. In to much of a rush sometimes. So glad to hear from you, I hope your health has improved.

@@homeslicesharpening I wasn't away, I'm just trying to find balance in my shrinking bubble. It may be hard to believe from someone you've never met, my validity has been slowly deteriorating for the last 11 years now. My brain and nervous system are irreparably damaged by the Borrelia bacteria, in this stage it is called Neuroborreliosis. For the rest I am healthy and within my bubble I can still do something. I haven't been outside for a while and I hardly have any contact with people anymore. In Japan they would call me an Otaku, someone with no social contacts who watches anime and plays video games all day, which I can do while lying in bed. For the rest, I am working on health at the Next Level. I eat once a day, which is considered fasting and meditate 3X 45 minutes to an hour a day (prayer in silence). I could tell you a lot about the turning point from Glucose to Ketones and Autophagy, but that has nothing to do with the sharpness of the knife. Indirectly it does, let me explain it to you. I once told you that the method I use was copied from my son. He sharpened his first two knives around 85 BESS and at that time I could not get one below 100 BESS. His precision was like that of a small child, then I could no longer use my old method and perfected his method. I'm not asking you to change your method. What you can do is use the kitchen knife you use most often for this experiment. I have 6 videos on my channel ( kzbin.info/door/aINlwQxEgXXxNykBR2Illg ) in which I explain every step of my view, Precision measurements with the Edge On Up PT50A, Making a groove with a chainsaw file, Angle determination and attachment for that one knife, the flow of the knife, the flat part and the curved part of the knife, sharpening and measuring the sharpening stone, precision stropping, the two-finger sharpening method and using an increasingly finer sharpening stone in small steps. Once the knife has been sharpened correctly, you can resharpen it once every two weeks with the 1000 Grit stone, 20-20, 10-10, 3-3, 3-3, 3-3 and then the stropping 4X per part and then you are between 80 and 60 BESS. It really works, but don't forget: “Every steel has its own feel”. What is also important is your own state of consciousness while focusing. Pressure, pressure, pressure, just as quickly doesn't work. It is just like holding your breath, but then you hold your thoughts and keeping your intestinal flora in balance also ensures a calm mind. Greetings

@@homeslicesharpening I wasn't away, I'm just trying to find balance in my shrinking bubble. It may be hard to believe from someone you've never met, my validity has been slowly deteriorating for the last 11 years now. My brain and nervous system are irreparably damaged by the Borrelia bacteria, in this stage it is called Neuroborreliosis. For the rest I am healthy and within my bubble I can still do something. I haven't been outside for a while and I hardly have any contact with people anymore. In Japan they would call me an Otaku, someone with no social contacts who watches anime and plays video games all day, which I can do while lying in bed. For the rest, I am working on health at the Next Level. I eat once a day, which is considered fasting and meditate 3X 45 minutes to an hour a day (prayer in silence). I could tell you a lot about the turning point from Glucose to Ketones and Autophagy, but that has nothing to do with the sharpness of the knife. Indirectly it does, let me explain it to you. I once told you that the method I use was copied from my son. He sharpened his first two knives around 85 BESS and at that time I could not get one below 100 BESS. His precision was like that of a small child, then I could no longer use my old method and perfected his method. I'm not asking you to change your method. What you can do is use the kitchen knife you use most often for this experiment. I have 6 videos on my channel ( kzbin.info/door/aINlwQxEgXXxNykBR2Illg ) in which I explain every step of my view, Precision measurements with the Edge On Up PT50A, Making a groove with a chainsaw file, Angle determination and attachment for that one knife, the flow of the knife, the flat part and the curved part of the knife, sharpening and measuring the sharpening stone, precision stropping, the two-finger sharpening method and using an increasingly finer sharpening stone in small steps. Once the knife has been sharpened correctly, you can resharpen it once every two weeks with the 1000 Grit stone, 20-20, 10-10, 3-3, 3-3, 3-3 and then the stropping 4X per part and then you are between 80 and 60 BESS. It really works, but don't forget: “Every steel has its own feel”. What is also important is your own state of consciousness while focusing. Pressure, pressure, pressure, just as quickly doesn't work. It is just like holding your breath, but then you hold your thoughts and keeping your intestinal flora in balance also ensures a calm mind. Greetings

Thanks so much, I appreciate the support and enthusiasm!

Yeah, I was so surprised because this edge did come up after only about 10 minutes on the diamond stone. I realize it's not the most impressive thing that can be done with an edge, but it was a significant milestone a few years ago when I made the video. All the best.

That is super generous! Thank you for the offer! I am about to go on an extended trip back to the States, and have a pretty heavy back-log of videos to do. I would hate to deprive you of your new stones for an extended period of time. Maybe you can break them in, and give me your thoughts in a future video? Then I may be in a place to try the matrix stones. I also must admit, I have had good results with the Venev 400 in this video with higher carbon steels, so the Victorinox knife may just have been too soft. Let me know your thoughts. And thanks again.

@homeslicesharpening not a problem 👌

Thanks anyway, I really do feel honored, just want to catch up and operate in healthy limits you know. All the best.

Thanks mate, all the best!

This is similar to a test I'm doing now where I reground a Buck knife to zero and then put a 15 degree dual-grit micro-bevel about 4 thousandths of an inch on it. It stropped back to hair-whittling for 2.5 weeks and counting on hanging leather strop with 0.25 micron diamond! Crazy stuff!

Welcome to the channel! And that's a fair observation. Upon thinking about it later, I probably stated that observation poorly. I suppose that one of the first rules of scientific thought is that we cannot say for certain, only observe and observe again until a pattern becomes evident. I have done enough chop/baton/impact testing on wood to establish a pattern of dulling on BESS in which the number often increases at a certain point before falling more quickly. Admittedly, I am just making observations, and it could be due to the limitations of BESS. I certainly agree that the BESS Machine tends (presently) to be over-relied-on and it is not without flaws. If such randomness were the cause though, I find it unlikely that a strong pattern would emerge, rather the readings would be uniformly "scattered" as you worded it without a repeatable pattern. If I could go back and re-word my observation, I would probably say something like this: "When rope-cut testing, the abrasion always causes a quick and predictable increase in BESS reading. I think this is because the abrasive-wear gently wears the edge apex round without violently removing damaged metal." "However, when chopping or batoning wood, my observed BESS readings reliably decrease shortly before rising to "dull" levels. I do not believe this dynamic should be understood as 'getting sharper' but rather that high-velocity push-cut style strikes into wood tend to strip away damaged metal in ways that reshape the apex to temporarily be more efficient in a BESS test - where back-and-forth slicing are not used (and aggression not quantified) and all that matters is apex width and 'cleanness' from damaged metal or microburr." ...Or the whole system could be flawed and none of us should take ourselves so seriously, starting with me 🤣 In any case, I hope you have a great day. Cheers.

Thanks for the feedback Matt! I agree, it's not always worth it, but it sure can be fun to optimize edge retention for a steel that otherwise would be pretty "meh". Take care man.

Yeah, it's something I hope to flesh out and confirm/deny more in the future. Cheers Mike. Have a good day.

Haha, Sorry? I think I am fully with you on the journey, discovering things that surprise me all the time.

No problem Daniel, always good to hear from you. I'm so glad it was beneficial!

I've tested just about everything that gets suggested to strop with, and I always go back to diamond paste on basswood too. I'll use hanging denim for intentionally convexed edges, but 99% of my stropping is done on basswood.

@@CNYKnifeNut nice! Thanks buddy! It’s the best I’ve found too.

That's pretty much my 2 go-to methods at the moment. Well, I guess I have leather as a sort of in-between. Like: -Crisp V-Edge: Stroppy Stuff 1 Micron to 0.25 Micron both on Basswood -Slightly more difficult steel to fully deburr: Same abrasives above but convex a couple microns using leather -Intentional micro-convex for soft steel, push-cut tasks, and high-impact edges: Hanging strop

@@homeslicesharpening Nice! I’ll give your other methods a shot. I usually use 1 micron and then a half micron to finish on basswood. I use this for all different edges and steels. Works great on most however, softer steels I may try your method

It's possible, I have some budget S90V I plan to test on a Manly Knives Wasp coming up in the next few months.

Thanks for the feedback as well!

I have not tried woven fabric. And yes, I still use this method. I find that harder large-knife steels (approaching 60HRC) sometimes come up more crisp on a flat strop (Just got 95 g BESS on my Terava Skrama in 80CrV2 and it held up amazing - and that was flat denim stropped), but the more ductile softer steels (usually 58 HRC and down) seem to benefit from more full deburring that comes from wrapping the apex a little with a hanging strop.

@@homeslicesharpening Thanks for getting back. Good to hear. When you have time, try the seat belt with green honing paste, works amazing 👌🏻 Best wishes... P.S. Maybe make a video on it if you like results.. 👍🏻

I will keep it in mind, thanks!!!

Yeah, I find that too. I do find that the Trail Boss has a thin geometry and it seems to get better with each sharpening. Both in getting a better edge, and better at ejecting chips from the cut-surface, as the edge thickens. But the sharpness, power, and precision, I would still say are a bit better on my Husky.

I do a little microscope work, you can see the video for yourself here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2qbnp6Le5J2Y8k

I don't detect any large-scale chipping, but all sharpening is a balance of flexing, breaking, shearing, and micro-chipping, so I am sure the rocks are "chipping" the edge, I guess the question is "are they doing that in a beneficial way, like a good whetstone would, or are they overly widening and damaging the cutting edge?"

Nice!!! Will have to check it out!

I have a hard time with Benchmade's S30V to be honest. I have a 940 and I love the design, but struggle to get the edge right. I'm hoping to utilize my rope testing to analyze an optimal sharpening protocol for this steel in particular, but it will take some time. If I were you, I would either: -Leave the edge toothy, I'd probably use my Venev FEPA 400 grit OCB Diamond Water Stone, then strop with a good diamond emulsion, you could substitute any quality diamond stone, but if it was an electroplated stone I'd probably finish with gentle edge-leading strokes alternating direction every pass on 600-800 grit, then to strop or -If you have really fine diamond stones, I have had some good results with high alloy steels (Vanax in this case) doing a dual grit edge about 400grit diamond on one side and very fine on the other, and more stropping than a low-alloy steel (I usually do 15-30 strokes per side) with good diamond emulsion For now, those are the only 2 protocols I have had some reasonable success with - cheers.

@@homeslicesharpening What I have read/watched so far on BS30V (pun intended) 1. A professional knife sharpener on KZbin mentioned that it seems like Benchmade S30V requires the user to take a layer of metal off of the edge to get past some form of residual heat treatment defects on the cutting edge of the blade when delivered from the factory. This hypothesis was based on the idea that after resetting the bevel and sharpening the blade 3 or 4 times, BS30v seems to have less problems. However, before doing that, it’s likely to see small chips in the edge under light duty. 2. The steel seems to do better with an edge angle between 35-38deg. I’ve sharpened spyderco’s S30V really well, but my super fancy Benchmades seem to really disappoint in this department. Will try your suggested approaches on the sharpening. Thank you for the write up! I’m really surprised someone hasn’t covered this issue with the amount of people who have been stuck with BS30V knife steel knives…

Thanks for the information! Cheers bro.

I think that's probably the most sensible course of action, lol!

Yeah, there is probably some truth to your claim, but as I don't have access to blade blanks exactly the same geometry - I'm constrained. Which way would you suspect the grind to tip it? If I look at the data, I could see a correlation that grinds thinner at the edge seem to perform better. Or are you saying that thicker edges should be more durable? If thickness is a disadvantage that would partially make sense of the ESEE's poor performance, and Vanadis4E being a flop when it should be the most durable steel tested. Steel definitely does seem to play a factor though, as the S35VN and NitroV are similar thickness overall and at the edge (so fairly similar geometry) and the NitroV performed startlingly better. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, they would only enrich the conversation!

@@homeslicesharpening I hope you didn't take my words as criticism🙏. All the testing and steels is very difficult to get conclusive results. And an extremely large amount of work. Unfortunately, certain steels are often spoken about badly on the web and hyped up. But it's really mainly the geometry and the edge that determine how well they perform for different applications. I prefer a thin edge on EDC knives (15-18 per side), geared towards cutting. For knives for 'bushcraft' and stuff like that, 20 per side. Higher (23-25 ​​per side) only for 'survival'-like stuff. I hope you understand my confusing lines. My English isn't the best🙈🤣

Oh, thanks for clarifying. No I agree about hype and negative reviews that are blown out of proportion. I was hoping to clarify to you that I am aware the research is imperfect, and hope that it is represented this way so that people understand. Thanks for taking the time to get back to me. All the best.

My family lives in Washington State. We visited the Oregon Coast and stayed at the WorldMark resort in Depoe Bay 2 years ago. I found the rock on a walk around the coast. I love the Oregon Coast! Cannon Beach is among my favorite places, and my wife and I got married there. Sorry for the misspelling, it was either the auto-correct in my computer or the one in my fingers, but I actually did know it was spelled "Depoe Bay" I still have a beanie/hat I wear that is from that "Pirate Coffee" place knitted by the granny over there!

@@homeslicesharpening Very cool!

Thanks! I have used a Norton India Fine and I really liked it. I also have a Norton Crystolon Silicon Carbide stone... Super gritty to use but effective edges come off of it! Cheers bro.

I have used dirt in flat bark as a strop, rock "slurry" to flatten other rocks and attempt to deburr, ground pumice as an abrasive, and in the final video I grind a piece of crystal on a flat piece of shale to put a fine slurry of rock with uniform crystal size - that's how all the final knives were sharpened and how NitroV came up shaving arm hair.

​@@homeslicesharpening That seems old school but a real alternative to modern methods. There is a video of a circulating that shows " One of the Best " Japanese sharpeners. He is stropping with two different strops . . . about 3 strokes per side at a high angle. Only the video at this point but more details are likely to be shared in upcoming videos. I would like to figure out what he is using for strops. Sharing more soon.

Got your email, thanks.

Yeah, I tried that in the second or third video - I remember not being too impressed with the results, but I am sure with the right clay and flat enough wood it might do great! I always feel like stropping the edge of a chopping knife on my canvas pants after they are dusted with soil (from work) keeps life in the edge for just a bit longer.

Yeah - that's a good point. I am going to re-test later this year and try SK5, 1095 CroVan, and 80CrV2 - I should try to get ahold of a fixed blade in one of those steels at normal manufactured hardness to see whether it still performs well!

I have three Eafengrow and they seem to be inline with what they should be. Their tarnished name is hard for them to overcome. They are excellent value for the money.

@@michaelwaldeck7081 agreed 👍

My apologies guys, the one I bought was indeed years ago (probably 5.5 years ago I bought it) I have since sold it and cannot do corrosion resistance testing to confirm. Thanks for the information, I was not aware that the problem was resolved - it's more a case of me being out of the loop than anything. Thanks guys!

@homeslicesharpening you did nothing wrong lol, I am still curious to know if that's still the deal, which I don't think it is but you never know

I think the original research was done by LuvThemKnives channel. Jared talks about it in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGamqYekfZl_jpo There is an updated video by LuvThemKnives and he tests a bunch of new Eafengrow and it's genuinely D2 - so I learned something here!

If I was to recommend something now (with all the testing I have done) I'd say KaBar Becker BK7 in 1095 CroVan for all-purpose outdoors knife (it even won the chop tournament I did later - by having the best edge retention for wood-chopping). For more chopping-heavy applications I am currently loving the Terava Skrama 200 and 240 from Varusteleka.com in 80CrV2 Steel.

ok merci

Thanks!!!

Thank you so much - what a well written and considerate comment! I would be happy to oblige. I honestly feel like I need to do a little bit of steel research and a few more months of carrying the edges that perform well on the rope test before I even know exactly what to recommend. This edge was a snapshot in time, I have since found steels this sharpening protocol did not work well on, and I have found certain things that work better for certain steels. My hope is to finish some dual grit testing this year and settle on a few dialled-in edge protocols, each covering a certain genre of steel for which the sharpening protocol brings out the best. I want to make a playlist with a few options and cover the range of available steels. When I do this I will try both to make videos that abbreviate (shorter) and expound (more detailed) for each sharpening protocol, and would be willing to write up a description of the process as well. I just feel like I genuinely don't know what I would want to promote at this stage, at least until the final data comes in. Hope that makes sense!

@@homeslicesharpening Gabe you are a gentleman and a scholar! I applaud your patience and adherence to a tempered and tested, factual opinion. Heaven knows the knife community is already knee deep in enough speculation and conjecture. ;) I and the rest of the acolytes of the dual grit method will wait patiently for the right time to come. Thank-you for your comment and again for so deftly tending your portion of the knife community garden! Over and out for now.

It's a "crown grey pumpkin" - that's the main kind we have down here in NZ, different color from the usual. Cheers, hope you have a good day.

Haha! I actually did test H1 in the first ever Survival Sharpening Video. Different stones and not as optimized - but it hit around 410 g and essentially matched the 1095 CroVan in my KaBar Becker. If I had to guess where it would fall in this video with more of an optimized stone, I'd guess it would get a little lower, maybe mid-300's probably somewhere between PGK and MagnaCut. Cheers bro! PS is LatinoDeathJazz really a thing? Is there an artist you could point me to 😂

I don’t know how I missed that - I’ll have to go back through your videos for any I’ve missed. As for LatinoDeathJazz alas no - it isn’t a real genre of music. It was actually a phrase a friend of mine would slip into conversation if he wanted bailing out of a situation on an evening out, usually where he felt unsafe or suspected someone was trying to spike his drink and take advantage of him (I’m not gay and wasn’t familiar with the hazards of the scene at the time, and I don’t drink so was always compos mentis).

True!!! I would SO love to get my hands on one of those!

Thanks mate - I had fun with this one. Not the be-all-end-all by any stretch, but I found the data absolutely fascinating!

No thanks... 😅

@Sabelfechter - I think she's referring to something that could pass the test in this video, and I think she's probably right! 1050 would be an interesting test subject.

@EDCandLace that's an interesting thought, I am collecting some knives now to do another one of these baton tests and rock sharpening tests on more carbon steels. Probably will settle out to be SK5, 5160, 80CrV2, and 1095 CroVan. Right now (at this moment), my money is on 80CrV2, but we'll see!

Too true! I probably have to buckle down and learn more about the algorithm to really take it to the next level. That just sounds like the worst thing ever right now, lol. I think I'm gonna keep making content I enjoy and maybe shoot for more growth later, in a couple years, when my kids are older. I am fine having a small channel growing slowly for now - more interactions with quality folks like yourself, less BS and drama. Cheers mate.

A toothy edge that's properly done is NOT remaining burr fragments that gives the bite. If that was the case the edge would fail after a cut. A PROPERLY done toothy edge is micro serrations at the apex from the scratch pattern of the stone.

​@@EDCandLaceNot sure whats happening, doesnt show my response: You should read up Todds EM research on scienceofsharp, scratch pattern does not directly correlate with tooth. A coarser grit creates an uneven semi stable burr, which has amazing slicing agression, but worse stability, like in carving. So depending on task it can be great.

@Sabelfechter Interesting input! Have you tried sharpening on rocks before? It was really strange after using stones that are actually flat!

@EDCandLace There is an element of truth to the idea that a coarse edge performs similarly to serrations - in that it utilizes irregular shapes and structures in the apex to lessen the force needed to initiate a cut - especially on fibers. It has also been found that the texture of the edge is not micro-serrated in any consistent way that relates to the abrasives of the stone. Which is to say, the edge is rough from chipping and uneven wear, then gets refined enough to slice well via stropping or some other mechanism, but the resulting edge is too random to be accurately called "serrated". I do think Sabelfechter is right that one of the best sources to visualize this is Todd Simpson's research. I'll link an article.

His article on dual grit sharpening with my sample knives is a good one to check out: scienceofsharp.com/2021/06/15/dual-grit-sharpening/

Haha, not sure if that is a compliment or an incredulous remark, but 🤣 they come from the recesses of my brain. It's a very strange place indeed. It helps with ideas being innovative that I don't get absorbed too much into existing testing because I like to make final decisions based mainly on observations I've made myself, so my testing is sometimes relatively un-influenced by the prevailing thoughts of the day (basically other than input from knifesteelnerds and scienceofsharp and Pete) for better and occasionally for worse. But I'm definitely having fun.

If you liked this test - you are gonna love the video that comes out in a couple days! Haha!

Haha - fair enough. I usually just take a small piece of sharpening gear in my bag. I don't find it weighs or inconveniences too too much. I just figured if there are gonna be people subscribing to this theory, we should test it at face-value, as it's not a hard theory to test! Take care.

@@homeslicesharpening Regardless, thanks for putting the myth to test! It’s cool to see actual testing of these things.

You're welcome my friend!

Oh, that's good news!