1+1= 3 : Wreck Analysis

[@s1krocket]

I appreciate the break down bro I really love videos like this, at the end of the day we all make mistakes and we just have to learn from other riders that are better than us, I learned a lot from this video 🙏🏼 now I have a question, what would you recommend I do next time to prevent this? Should I wait to give throttle until I’m leaving the apex? Or should I throttle a little earlier

[@skyoom1]

Glad vid made it to you 🙂. For this turn I think you could have very comfortably made it through if you'd committed at a faster speed and maintenance throttled through by getting on throttle earlier and letting that suspension stabilize before starting to lean. BUT the safest way would definitely have been to trail that front brake in deeper and then once you start standing back up hop back on that throttle. Telling you man nothing you did here was egregious in anyway imo, it really was just the stars aligning to ruin your day with the exact right amount of everything to breal that rear from under you. Thats what made this crash so interesting is tbh I don't think you could recreate it if you tried its so barely on the line. Only reason I think that rear didn't catch and high side is you accidentally adding throttle the second that tire broke

[@slipknnnot]

Can’t you also unload the front by applying the rear brake lightly before entering the corner so your suspension is not bouncing ??? Or let off the brakes slowly so the suspension doesn’t recoil mid lean and then accelerate out what the bike is pointed towards the exit ???

[@detro3run]

To expand upon the points made by @skyoom1, I recommend maintaining engagement of the front brake throughout the turn, albeit at a reduced intensity, perhaps around 20%. Keeping the brake engaged while simultaneously applying throttle could have prevented any disruption to the suspension.

[@Knightmare239]

Bruh I’m gonna be honest with you… This video and these guys previously commented over explained and examined everything! No offense to anyone but it’s bunch of nonsense when it’s a really simple fix to it. Apply BODY LEAN instead of BIKE LEAN, keeping your bike upright to allow the suspension to absorb and settle any mistake you make or imperfections of road surface . You sitting up right over a bike that’s leaning you’re just asking for problems. With body lean you’re able to apply any correction needed if anything upsets the bike.

[@nameless4360]

@@slipknnnot no bro shut up lmfao. he trail braked into the corner youre literally missing the point entirely. doesnt fuckin matter if he used front or back brake there. would have happened either way. its so simple. maintain steady throttle through corners period. so set up properly. i hate newbies that always over complicate shit

[@Todengaard]

"it's spring time, wreck videos are back on the menu" 😭😭😭

[@helldogbe4077]

Passing that dog at 1:00 is how I crashed my first bike. Dog was sitting outside a house, I was riding pretty slowly at about 30mph as it was a small built up area with a few houses on either side. I saw the dog sitting and had already braked a bit more but it was sitting pretty far from the side of the road and wasn't facing me. At the very last moment it turned around and in the blink of an eye ran across the street, basically when I was already beside it. I hit it smack in the middle with my front wheel as I pulled my brake hard. I went down and barely slid, my buddy riding behind me also crashed due to the front wheel locking up. The dog stood up, ran a few steps and died in the middle of the road. Luckily someone came out who knew who the dog belonged to. Police came to the scene and wrote an accident report and we both got a good payout for the damage to our starter bikes, leather suits and helmets. Could've been a lot worse.

[@hailthedead]

im a new rider at the ripe age of 39. you are so good at explaining things. thank you sir.

[@Yoshimata101]

I’m currently on a Ninja 400. I WANT to upgrade to a SuperSport, but after watching so many videos of riders dying and busting their asses that makes me want to stay where I’m at. So far I’ve had no problems with leaning or otherwise whatsoever.

[@vistakay]

400 uses way less gas and way cheaper insurance, all a supersport will do is get into more trouble with cops lol.

[@VState60]

You added lean angle and throttle at the same time. Formula complete. 🎉🎉

[@Yohanyothan]

You’re a great content creator! All good stuff for us new riders to hear

[@RANhxcCORE]

Some dust + cold tires and this mistake made me go down at a track day at low speeds. You are so right about this!

[@DiagolonRider]

Trail Braking is a must

[@jvillain9946]

You should do a video about security and the need for comprehensive coverage. Bike thefts are exploding right now. We have had 4 of them hit in my neighborhood in a month and I live in a safer rural area. They hit my new s1k a couple days ago. Thought I put enough deterent on in but I guess not. They cut right through it, drilled out my ignition, cracked my wind screen and scratched the entire left side up.

[@636theofthebeast8]

That fucking sucks man

[@aluisious]

I put the fattest Abus ulock through my front wheel, with a half inch chain going to the carport roof support. No one has messed with that yet.

[@HeldIntegral]

Park inside

[@perrythesylvester]

@@HeldIntegral douche bag

[@vistakay]

Don't park a new BMW outside/in front of your house

[@StewieTopless]

This is the reason everyone preaches trail braking. When I’m riding aggressively my throttle usage changes completely. Normal riding may have use of maintenance throttle. Very little body position & moderate speed. But, once I decide to raise that speed, I focus on trailing & only adding throttle after I’ve started to stand the bike up out of the corner. The only thing bad about that perspective is I may take more speed into corner entry to make up for the extra time I spend braking, but that’s a self control issue imo. This prevents me somewhat from breaking rear traction cause I’m never asking my tire to accelerate & lean at the same time. With faster riding, being smooth is more about having a time & place for your inputs rather than how slowly you roll on or off brakes or throttle. If you’re at 98pts of lean, adding any throttle or brakes will wash a tire no matter how gentle you apply them

[@literal_lee]

If you are at speeds that require smooth and controlled trailbraking, you should be on a track. The public road is no place for riding at 98 points of grip, IMO.

[@StewieTopless]

@@literal_lee I never said I raise my speed so trailing is required. I’m not on a track & these roads suck ass. I trail because I prefer to keep my forks compressed as I reach my desired lean angle & I’m ok with sacrificing mid corner speed cause I know how bad upsetting your suspension while leaned over is. I usually pick the bike up at the speed limit if not under it for really sharp turns & I might ride 20 over down the straight if nobody is around, I’m a speed demon lol Trail braking is a skill to be used at any time imo, including when it’s required. Sometimes I use my rear brake, is that solely for the track also & I shouldn’t do that cause it’s only for backing it into turn 3? I fell from washing my front away because I “grabbed” brakes. Much like he explained in the video, I didn’t add that much front brake. I kept beating myself up saying “you know better than to grab the lever, no way that’s what you did”. I didn’t understand why I fell. But, there were other factors that compounded. It was wet, my tires really were cold, & I slide over a painted lane marker. As soon as I hit the paint I was on my butt & bike sliding. I did make a mistake & upset my bikes suspension while leaned over. Merging into a turning lane doing 35mph at most. I had done that before with no problem. But, that time was wet & that small amount of brake pressure was enough to lock it up in those circumstances. Besides the fact I was changing lanes, the same thing can happen in a corner. We upset the suspension, the suspension shocks the tire & it loses traction. Now I apply my inputs before I ask the bike to change direction & I don’t add input before that change is complete. It keeps all my inputs separate & deliberate. When I mean to accelerate, I twist the throttle. When I mean to brake, I roll off the throttle & squeeze the lever. When I want to change direction, I push the bar until I see direction. I don’t conflate those inputs. They overlap at times, but when I’m riding “technically” they never happen simultaneously. Hence the “gap” reference in this video & me saying being smooth is more about the time & place rather how gentle your inputs are. Sorry for the confusion

[@literal_lee]

@@StewieTopless Sorry for the confusion indeed, but I didn't mean you personally, but 'you' or 'anyone' in general.

[@StewieTopless]

@@literal_lee agreed. I compartmentalize most things so 98pts of grip was pertaining to street comfort, taking into consideration all the factors the street presents. If I’m being completely honest I have no idea what 70% of what my bike is capable of so 98pts is like 20° at 60mph. I have fun, but after falling doing “normal” stuff it makes me really cautious once I start to ride a bit more spirited. It may be overkill, but you don’t get to save a bike slide. Someone may get lucky, but once one of those wheels break you’re gonna go down before you even knew you lost traction & that’s scary.

[@literal_lee]

@@StewieTopless I have been slowing down my streetriding since I started trackriding. Mostly because of realising how close to the edge I used to ride.

[@perrythesylvester]

Thank you for helping us break bad habits

[@Ventcis]

5:23 is the X factor…🔥

[@zvgzx]

You are very good at explaining , just recently switched from a 300 to a s1000rr and your videos are very helpful 👍🏻

[@skyoom1]

God damn man thank you a ton and congrats on the bmw 🙂. Next video I hope to get out if this rain will stop will hopefully be back in line with my supersport stuff But back to whats important, which color/package did you get

[@zvgzx]

@@skyoom1 Thank You :) , im trying to get better at corners and your videos explain everything , i was able to fix a lot of mistakes especially on how not to go wide etc 🤝

[@skyoom1]

​@@zvgzxI'm not letting you skip the color question 😂

[@kvernesdotten]

I think analyzing accidents is one of the most valuable thing one can do, especially if its your own. It does require knowledge and keeping ones ego it check to do properly though, and I think you did a great job on this one! I would like to point one thing out though, that he did and you did not do in your demonstration here. He accelerates in to the turn, while you either delay it until at the apex or slowly roll on right before it depending on what you can get away with at a given curve and speed. For instance at 11:14, he would comparatively already be on the throttle at that point, while you arent until 2.5 seconds later. If you look at what direction his bike is pointing when he adds throttle compared to yours, thats alot of momentum pointing straight off the road thats hard to recover from, like you talked about in another video. And when you add the other issues you talked about, thats alot to ask of the bike. Maybe this is what you meant and I didnt understand it properly, English isnt my native language, but I do consider adding throttle too early in the curve a separate issue because im convinced maintenance throttle would be fine, trail braking would be fine and adding throttle at or after the apex would be fine in his particular case. Did you talk to him? Im super curious what his account of this is tbh. Anyway, thanks for the good work you do and sorry for another novel in your comments haha

[@skyoom1]

Keep the novels coming man hahaha I tried my best with the tc demonstration and in that turn in particular with the car coming I didn't want to risk anything even with the tc on. Let me tell you adding lean and throttle and dumping that front at the same time is one hell of a mental hurdle when you've spent the past years trying to beat it all out of your system 😂. first take of this vid after going back and watching the tc part it was impressively bad how pathetic my examples turned out 😂. And I have not aside from asking to make this vid so hopefully the @ system on youtube will get it to him haha.

[@kvernesdotten]

@@skyoom1 Haha yeah I can imagine doing that on purpose feels like driving in the wrong lane or going the wrong way in a roundabout. Also it would be a very expensive bike to crash to prove a point 😁

[@CalebCantrell-vw4xk]

I think your example was great. I wouldn't have even tried this with traction control on. It hurts my brain thinking about it.​@skyoom1

[@garvincollins8632]

Great video, I think it's really good that you make videos to help out the new riders. I subscribed to S1krocket a while back and it was painful watching him go down. You presented it very respectfully and I hope it keeps someone else from going down one day.

[@Deeskii69]

Also listen to when his buddy got back on the throttle way later than he did

[@aluisious]

I wish I had a nickel every time some squid blamed cold tires for rider error.

[@literal_lee]

Or 'target fixation'... 😏

[@deant6627]

Im happy I come across your channel, I've really been enjoying watching your content.

[@RRFriction]

Where I live it's sticky tarmac 90% of the year I have an 05 RR no assists What S1 did is top of my list of what not to do I try to enter immediately after braking there's zero throttle on entry Then I delicately pick up the throttle when it's ready. I have seen guys add throttle and proper lean into and out of bends There is a few factors at play rider plus tyres and road conditions It's better to be inn a higher gear if you attempt it. I think he was in second Possibly cold tires or cold pavement maybe bad rear tyre plus 2nd gear 😮 I'm not an expert just my two cents. I ride with guys who can dance into and out of these bends it requires skill real skill

[@charliebrewer1668]

Thanks again Skyoom!

[@ritzliszt2873]

So what should one do exactly? I find that I seem to always brake entirely too hard for the turns, and then by the time I realise that, I'm going too slow to actually enjoy the turn, and I never know what to do, but there's always a million buts, like you can't just say, brake less, like what if there's a hole, what if there's gravel, what If there's a car stopped, what if it's a decreasing radius... I'm not sure if just mere maintenance throttling it will do the trick

[@charlesbynum]

"Oh, I've closed the gap. I'll catch him now!"

[@mhoeij]

The reverse situation is also true. If I go immediately from solid acceleration to solid braking, that's pretty much the only way to get the front to lock. But if the transition (acceleration to braking) is smooth, it becomes very difficult to lock the front. So both types of transition (from braking to throttle, or, from throttle to braking) must be done smoothly to avoid loss of traction. I remember a video some years ago where the rider came out of a wheelie, had to brake for a car, and the front locked immediately. It sure looked like a bouncing suspension wasn't good for traction, just like you explain in the video.

[@aaronschurmann5923]

Hello Skyoom, i am an aspriring rider, thanks for all your videos. I have some thoughts from a car(simracing) perspective. Tyres have more grip with more weight(load) on them. So as you accelerate the rear tyres have more load and more traction. This is not instant, so sudden throttle makes you lose traction while doing it more gradually doesnt, so you can get on the throttle way earlier and way more without spinning. In the sim a friend of mine spun in the same corner, same line while giving it half the throttle i give through that turn, just because of the way he gets on the throttle, and that its later and more sudden (i could see his inputs while spectating). Weight transfer cant do as much if you have less grip or are already using some, for example on ice or in corner like here. You said unsettling the suspension which is a great point, tyre grip is dependent on the weight(load) on them, that means sudden inputs would make the suspension oscillate or swing back and forth, before it gets dampened out (you can feel this). This would mean that load on the tyres would oscillate and also the grip goes up and down quickly. This means that you have points in time where you have lower grip, so it essentially lowers your grip limit. (MotoGP riders are so smooth because of this.) In the vid its well possible that he jammed the throttle just as he had less grip due to the bikes oscillation... it also makes it alot easier to be caught out, if delaying your throttle jam by 0.1s you can have good grip, it can give you confidence in the corners before, it can be inconsistent and deceptive. Cheers! Didnt want to make it longer but i could talk about throttle being used to initiate a light slide or help turn, i suspect thats what s1k tried to do, slow application causes more understeer so faster application gives more turning effect for same accelleration. Questions appreciated :)

[@aftermarks]

The part about tires having more grip when they're loaded is well taken. But motorcycles turn differently than cars. Application of throttle at a given lean angle widens the turning radius, and if you apply it quickly, you will run wide faster. If you open the throttle more aggressively past maintenance / neutral throttle you then need to add lean angle to counteract it and make the corner. Since you're on the power the weight transfers rearward and there is less available grip for the front tire to turn. This is why adding throttle and lean at the same time is risky. If you're in the habit of opening the throttle abruptly, it's going to catch you out at some point. Especially if you try to charge corners like this by turning early and trying to get back on the throttle before the apex. Delayed apexing on a powerful bike is not only safer, it's faster.

[@thebigd9989]

I always use the Throttle to pick up the bike must feel strange to lean and open no wonder so many sunny crashes.

[@canoticoyote]

theoretical edge of traction isn’t always actual edge of traction

[@BS-jw7nf]

I saw a decent yt video from a guy explaining trail braking, and he basically said that most accidents on track don't happen from over-braking, but from aggressively under-braking. So disrupting the suspension like skyooom explains here.

[@alexandrehenri9508]

​@@BS-jw7nfgot a link to the video? Thanks

[@raa729]

Still, you are on a cold wet road on prob some hard touring tires, if you are on a hot dry road and good hypersport tires it is lot more forgiving, I remember racing r1 with no tc, you are whacking throttle lot more than that at a full lean and in some complex serial corners you must add before apex. My bet he had crap tires, he said earlier in the video he’s not happy with them

[@uthantdillon3896]

I have a gizzer 1k as well, I really like your videos

[@skyoom1]

Suzuki crew 🫡

[@HeldIntegral]

Jizzer 😂

[@wickedtomahawk9091]

This is exactly what I did when I crashed a few months ago. I was very lucky. Low sided on a right-hand corner because I upset the suspension. I picked the bike up and rode away, and the worst damage was a bent rear break that still works to this day.

[@garrettkennedy169]

God protects

[@wickedtomahawk9091]

@garrettkennedy169 appreciate the sentiment, but I am agnostic.

[@fefgam]

Great once again! would a supercorsa save the guy? Being myself a new owner of a zx6 i am really considering changing my rosso iv to a corsa or a supercorsa (or equivalent from other brands), just to compensate for my lack of experience and skill. A buffer for safety in case i commit a mistake similar to the video. I find really hard to find decent videos on new tires for motorcycles.

[@skyoom1]

Very doubtful, I think tires are super overrated in terms of comparing tire A vs B for 99% of situations and are just an easy excuse to blame or consider changing when something bad happens. The more "hybrid" tires (s22's, corsas, q3's) are actually going to be detrimental depending on bike because warming up is now a factor and the much stiffer rubber will give a lot more feedback and potentially cause you to make a whoopsie should you be prone to panic responses. Tires like the road 6 you can just kiss them before leaving and they'll be 90% up to temp and they're soft enough they'll kinda mute whats going on beneath you. Personally I'd say save your money or if you really don't feel comfortable with the current setup slap some road 6's on and don't look back since an even stiffer s22 or corsa will probably make your confidence go down rather than up when you feel each piece of gravel your bike touches.

[@L42776]

Bike was so nice too I cry

[@tonymcflattie2450]

Always ride with a 6 axis imu and traction control

[@runescapeZYX]

As someone who'll only be taking their basic rider course in a few weeks, this video makes the thought of learning to corner that much more intimidating. The more I watch these, the more daunting it seems it'll be to understand proper throttle/brake usage around turns. Scary stuff

[@joeystew6201]

It's definitely nothing to play with. exactly like sky explained in the video, throttle plus lean can be very bad, target fixation is another one to be aware of, other things like suspension and tire setup can also factor in. The msf course should get you up to speed with the proper knowledge. By the time, you finish the course, you should feel much more comfortable or realize that riding just isnt for you and theres nothing wrong with that either. I rode in my neighborhood for weeks and practiced everyday after work. Practice practice practice!

[@skyoom1]

Well damn it that's not what I'd hoped to present with this one Turning is as simple as you want it to be and as complicated as you make it. It'll make so much more sense and seem so much less daunting once you get rolling for the first time. Try to bottle up that fear and save it to open back up in 3-6 months when the false confidence starts to try and sneak in

[@aluisious]

If you just avoid trying to rail through corners as fast as you can you'll mostly be OK. It really isn't very complicated.

[@armyman412]

How many years have you been riding? And how would you suggest someone develop skills as beginner? Online research and independent practice? Or formal training ( i dont want to do this)

[@skyoom1]

Not long enough to not still suck 🙂 For any and everything repetition and slow methodical progression. Its why I always harp on the importance of the newer you are the simpler you can make the task the better. Have to walk before you can run as they say haha. Mixed bag here, nothing is better than someone who comes to their own conclusions from their own testing and research but they have to have tested their theory against the formal to justify it. BUT the consequences from riding isnt the same as testing your own theories like in say golfing or in the gym. So to be a better than avg rider no formal needed, if you want to really get the gold star as good you'll have to end up coughing up the money for formal track training or the chance of becoming another statistic will be extreme

[@garvincollins8632]

I hope you don't mind me responding to your questions. Yes, online research and practice, practice, practice. If you find a curvy road that has low traffic, practice your cornering and take baby steps increasing your speed as you feel more comfortable. Always focus on what you are doing and be smooth on your throttle, braking, and leaning inputs. Formal training is good in my opinion. I was lucky enough to be in the Marine Corps when I started riding and they required us to take a motorcycle safety course to be allowed to ride on base. It was free of course and very helpful. It is worth the cost in my opinion. I have been riding for over 40 years and I ride sportbikes. Be safe and I wish you luck in developing your skills.

[@armyman412]

@garvincollins8632 so I read both of your comments and I'm pleased to say I'm more than willing to practice on my own and that was my plan. I do want to get very good but not compete level good. Just good enough to ride any road correctly. Thanks.

[@aluisious]

@@garvincollins8632 You don't even have to "take baby steps increasing your speed." Just don't worry about it. Go out there and ride your ride. If you get faster over time, neat. If you don't it doesn't matter. No one cares how fast you're going on the street. Just get home every day. If you want a goal to work toward during street riding, focus on putting your bike exactly where you want it on the road. No blown lines, no surprises. Ride like it's calligraphy. That will keep you safe.

[@garvincollins8632]

​@@aluisioustrue, you don't have to take baby steps if you are not progressively trying to improve. If you just ride frequently you will adapt and improve over time. It all depends on what you are looking for out of riding. 🙂

[@MiguelRPD]

New rider here. He crashed because he gave it throttle during the "apex" of his turn instead of the exit.

[@wlt3585]

Not just that, depending on the turn in question you can increase throttle and lean at the same time and be just fine. You can find plenty of YT videos on it. The issue is that it demands so much of the bike that nothing else can really mess up alongside it. Throttle and lean during apex does *not* always equal a fall. But it limits your options for what else the bike can handle

[@literal_lee]

​@@wlt3585You are right to a point, but adding lean and throttle at the same time, is commonly a bad strategy.

[@mentholdeathray]

What gear do you use to blog?

[@tonymcflattie2450]

Gotta be a track rider before advancing to streetRossi

[@aluisious]

No one should ever be a street Rossi.

[@HeldIntegral]

Street marquez maybe

[@rustypotatos]

Lololololol can’t believe you demonstrated for us. I think the only bike you can full throttle on turns is a scooter and that’s fine.

[@grimreamer2512]

I'm a new rider. Assuming you're going close to the speed limit, how do you take that turn? Engine brake until you can right the bike? Sounds dicy if a car is behind you

[@skyoom1]

I think my little extra towards the midway point about having stable suspension, being on throttle then initiating lean is the proper maintenance throttle maneuver but let me know if I'm misunderstanding question 🙂

[@aluisious]

Don't worry about cars behind you. Most turns on most roads, you don't even need to brake. If you're going 30 in a 30, 50 in a 50, whatever, just turn the bars and use steady throttle to keep going the same speed the whole time, you'll be fine. Speed limits are basically set to be safe for trucks at night in bad weather. Motorcycles are small. Effectively, the road is wider when you're on a bike. Going the speed limit on a bike tends to lend an extremely generous safety margin. The only guy I've seen who rode that slow was all up in his head about finishing braking before a turn and wouldn't dare to touch the throttle before he was going straight again.

[@blazinboi031]

Are you saying we should lean and coast through curves?

[@skyoom1]

Nononono, if I gave that impression anywhere I did a very poor job explaining. Coasting =/= maintenance throttle

[@aluisious]

If you're not going balls to the wall, you don't really have to do anything. Just turn the bars. I'll get through many turns that are tighter than 90% of the vids posted on KZbin without even touching the brakes.

[@nerychristian]

Los Angeles is beautiful

[@PEZ1514]

If his rebound damping is way to fast I agree this could have caused the accident. However, I suspect a cold tire with bad air pressure is more likely the cause. Who knows maybe the guy used the rear break and chattered the front wheel to wash immediately.

[@aluisious]

You're wrong. Watch the video.

[@PEZ1514]

@@aluisious sure you def know more than ne

[@RideFree317]

I don't think he should have cold tires , his original video has him riding fast for some time before the crash, unless he is using a race tire that is not suitable for street riding

[@skyoom1]

If you watch his video his tire was past medium rare and deep into well done territory haha

[@PEZ1514]

@skyoom1 lol yikes

[@Tiag_90]

stopping the video at 20 seconds just to add my thoughts, let's see if we agree. imo he crashed because he added both lean angle and gas at the same time. edit: knew it :D and ye trail braking. better to learn to enter the turn a little faster with your brake still in the hand then add throttle as you're picking the bike up

[@a124as]

Notice that every time it’s this situation they’re trying to keep up/catch up with someone in front of them.

[@garvincollins8632]

​@@a124asI didn't want to say that, but yes, I agree with you. Ride your own ride. Pushing too hard to catch that other bike.

[@TheRealBeefStake]

Trail braking is easier than people make it out to be and IMO makes turning easier and less scary. I feel much much safer knowing that I'm already braking and can easily grab some more brake safely if I need to. It also makes it much much easier to be disciplined on the throttle because you are on the brake until you are on the exit line.

[@tonymcflattie2450]

Bikes are for cruising, not for performance riding.

[@RideFree317]

It depends on the bike. Sports car or sports bike is the same thing . One is more performance focused than the other .

[@raa729]

And cars for hauling groceries and taking kids to school. Gotcha

[@charlesbynum]

Not mine.