#1 Proof Text for Endless Punishment

#1 Proof Text for Endless Punishment | Matthew

Рет қаралды 4,918

Күн бұрын

Augustine first argued that since aiṓnios is used to describe both punishment and life in Christ, it must mean endless in either context. In this presentation I demonstrate the futility of this argument and point out it is both fallacious reasoning and out of context with the wider theme of Christ's reign. That the Apostles said it is of the "age" because they were talking about the age of the Messiah's reign.

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@Joel-d7e3t 10 ай бұрын

The more I dig into the teachings of the church fathers, the more I am disturbed of the influence Saint Augustine had with the church.

@glennrobinson7193 9 ай бұрын

"Saint" Augustine? Must've been a very wicked saint. Forgive the oxymoron.

@storytime6263 3 ай бұрын

Saint?! I think not.

@dutchmcgee101 Ай бұрын

@@glennrobinson7193Augustine and Calvin especially John Calvin I despise with a passion.

@glennrobinson7193 Ай бұрын

@@dutchmcgee101 Thankyou, same here, I appreciate you.

@glennrobinson7193 Ай бұрын

@@storytime6263 Yes I agree.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

I’m blessed to have found your page. You teach a lot of truth and you’ve led me to other teachings of truth. Starting to understand the Gospels and Epistles a lot better now.

@kensey007 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for these videos. Great work. I'm agnostic, but your work has done more to make me reconsider Christianity that many hours of William Lan Craig, Frank Turek, and other such nonsense.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

If you give your life to Yeshua Christ you won’t regret it. A life of faith is so much better than trying to will your own life. There is great peace in Yeshua and great hope even though we must suffer and go through trials and tribulations for soul correction.

@jasonegeland1446 Жыл бұрын

Every video you make is my favorite! I just linked this video for some of our Seventh Day Adventist friends. I hope they get a chance to watch this and think about the overall content carefully.

@andrewjackson3024 Жыл бұрын

This truth seems to be spreading quickly among Adventists lately. Are you in Australia? There’s quite a bunch here. I grew up In the SDA church.

@jasonegeland1446 Жыл бұрын

@@andrewjackson3024 I'm in Texas. I grew up Methodist initially, but starting coming to the realization of the truth around the mid 2000's..

@maxamahnken7325 Жыл бұрын

@@andrewjackson3024 The punishment for sin is death not eternal life within hell fire.

@maxamahnken7325 Жыл бұрын

@@jasonegeland1446 The punishment for sin is death not eternal life within hell fire. Hell______the grave.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

Berean Literal Bible And if anyone speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but if anyone speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one. The bible tells us that there is at least 2 AGES, THIS ONE AND THE ONE TO COME. SO EVERLASTING MEANS EVERLASTING WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT BOTH AGES. YOU WON'T HAVE FORGIVENESS IN THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME, SOUNDS LIKE ETERNAL TO ME.

@benjaminwhitley1986 3 ай бұрын

I once heard a Christian pastor point out that Jesus said “eternal punishment” NOT “eternal punishing”. The punishment is not present progressive tense where the punishing never ends but that the punishment has eternal effects. The punishment that Jesus speaks of will take place in eternity and will have final effects for those punished. The effects of this punishment (kolasin: literally chastisement, correction), not the punishment itself, will be eternal. This difference in perspective helped crack the door to my study into God’s corrective and healing discipline for the benefit of the sinner instead of torture/torment just to satisfy some obligation to God’s supposed higher holiness or justice. As if these are in some way opposed to divine love. God’s punishment isn’t endless nor is it to harm the sinner. The effects of God’s punishment are endless and meant to heal from sin. 😊As the old song says, “Grace greater than all our sin”.

@gwilliams1001 Жыл бұрын

I never really heard it or paid attention to them being referred to 'Eternal punishment defenders' , but it is what they do. In my young adulthood, I did hear the term universal salvation and dismissed it because how I was raised in the church. But would have never 'defended' it, because that would be true hope based on something above, before and beyond me and is 'good news'. But that belief would have removed the validity of my efforts, and since I was immersed in religion I was therefore reliant on my own faculties and virtues to get me out of my crux. But not until revelation was my carnal man laid flat and prostrate and without being conscious of it said "Woe is me, for I am undone" (Isaiah 6:5). I think your videos are great and must be told. But I am afraid it lands on deaf ears. I believe it comes the same way it came to Simon Peter when Jesus said in Matt 16:17, "Blessed are you, for this was not revealed to your by flesh and blood but by my Father in Heaven" The rock in which the church is built is not a man 'St. Peter, but built on a man that receives revelation from God. Definitely not what man or the teachers of the law 'or religion' says. I do know, that it is, the good news is being revealed to man more now than centuries past. Just like it was to the disciples when Jesus was on earth as a man. Keep up the spreading of the good news. It is your purpose.

@artbyrobot1 Жыл бұрын

you say "But I am afraid it lands on deaf ears" --- I disagree. In many cases, people like me who have come to believe in this doctrine will listen to this channel to solidify my own position and add to my knowledge on this position I already hold. This will better equip me to defend my faith in this position in the future as I face opposition. Also, for some, they are very much on the fence and this channel can give a extra nudge and bring confidence to them to go all in for this doctrine. So it is not just deaf ears. However, for most, who are adamantly opposed and full of inability or unwillingness to be corrected, yes, they are deaf eared.

@AwakeTruthSeeker Жыл бұрын

Eternal punishment can also mean a punishment that lasts forever, i.e. eternal death. The sinner who does not repent, will die (Romans 6:23), and after they die, their death remains eternally, i.e. they are not resurrected.

@storytime6263 Жыл бұрын

Jesus defeated death

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@jesusisgodalmightyamen492 Жыл бұрын

Shalom my brothers and sisters, which is everyone. Peace be to you. Thank you brother Michael for this uploaded video. It is clear to me that this world doesn't know a thing about love. These philosophical scribblings about punishment are done by lying scribes. Such bring a message of fear and do not understand God. God is perfect, unconditional love. While mankind seeks *retributive punishment* by way of fear, through it's beastly nature, God will give us *correction* through His perfect love. While mankind seeks destruction and misery through retributive justice, God wants restorative justice. These adversarial fearmongering scriptures are worthless. Such hold no authority. It doesn't represent God. These biblical scriptures aren't the word of God. The Word of God is the expression of God. It is the way God’s Spirit expresses Himself with His creation as seen with the burning bush and in the form of the Christ. The Bible is just that what it is, a compilation of Scriptures that have been altered many times over the course of time that contain words of truth and abominable lies as done by man to deceive and control the masses. Is it not known to first Adam? Any message that involves fear is not from God. No exceptions. Any messenger that brings a message that involves fear is not from God and comes in it's own name. God is the perfect opposite of fear. It is strongly advised to stay away from all appearances of evil. To stay away from these things which are unloving, which are fearful, which go against the Law of God. To treat another as how we ourselves would like to be treated. Hold fast that which is good. Thank you for taking the time reading through all this. To God is all the glory.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

So would you describe yourself as simply a theist? Not a biblical theist?

@jesusisgodalmightyamen492 Жыл бұрын

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Shalom Michael. Peace be to you. Thank you for your response. The following may sound strange or even crazy to those who still have a worldly understanding instead of an attitude that is been justified by God. So Michael, we ask you to have some patience with us, for we come in peace. We follow the truth that is in the ONE and ONLY true God who is The Christ, The savior of all creation: The Lord Jesus. We follow Him through His daily given sanctification within. Through His given heartfelt convictions that we cannot deny nor wish to deny, we come to the knowledge of the truth that is in Christ. He and He alone directs all our paths. He and He alone is the Lord our God. While our own mentality likes to go left, He directs us to go right. While we want to do our own wicked will, He will convince us to do His perfect loving will. Note: The wicked - good is evil, evil is good And He will not stop convincing our consciousness until we obey His will. His will: to treat another as how we would like to be treated. And by doing this He teaches us *unconditional* love. This cannot be understood nor achieved through corrupted carnally minded scriptures nor through the knowledge of mankind. He is the way, the truth and the life. The way through heartfelt convictions done by Him, though this alone we will come to the understanding (truth) of His unconditional love for all of creation, and this gives eternal life because this mind (soul, mentality) is sown through His perfect love and not through fear that comes from our own limited imagination. And by this mind (mind of Christ) we show our strength in Him, through this our behavior to all other life is how our most beloved brother Paul shows us we will act, explained to all in the scriptures of 1 Corinthians 13. Brother, we hope that this makes a little bit of sense. May God give you the increase. To Him is all the glory !

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

@@jesusisgodalmightyamen492 I respect you are a theist, God bless you. However, I am a scriptural theist, I believe God has revealed himself by his inspired word. I've had atheists ask me, "what if I could prove Jesus didn't rise from the dead, would I still be a Christian?" Which is a silly question, if you could prove that of course I wouldn't be. But I would still believe in God and that God in order to be God would have to embody all the same qualities of love and goodness the God I already worship has. In short I would still be a theist for philosophical reasons.

@attached3245 Жыл бұрын

Thank you. You have directed me away from quite a poisonous doctrine. Godbless you friend

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@attached3245 Жыл бұрын

@@reynaldoperez7285 everlasting translates out to "age-lasting", as far as I know. Still fairly new to all of this though

@attached3245 Жыл бұрын

@@reynaldoperez7285 any comment on my reply? interested

@attached3245 Жыл бұрын

@@reynaldoperez7285 Guess not

@damonjesus445 9 ай бұрын

Was/is the correction of Israel eternal? No. That which happens to Israel is often a foreshadowing of what will happen to the world. God bless you all, in Jesus' name. Amen. The Gospel is 1 Cor 15; 1-4.

@Kuudere-Kun Жыл бұрын

Another problem is that the Sheeps and Goats Judgment was never it was a judgment of Individuals to begin with, it explicitly says Nations, it's Nations who'll be judged based on where they feed the Hungry and care for the Poor.

@Kuudere-Kun 8 ай бұрын

I just made a post on this subject on my SolaScripturaChristianLiberty blog today on January 1st 2024.

@Kuudere-Kun 8 ай бұрын

I also just made one on Purgatory.

@clearlyweird Жыл бұрын

Just 👏🏼 like 👏🏼 that 👏🏼🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️

@therealfain Жыл бұрын

Want a proof text for limited punishment? Read His law!

@Amigocontequila 2 ай бұрын

The proof of no endless punishment is clearly spelled out in EZK 28. If God is not going to let Satan live forever, then He can't do less for the likes of Hitler, or Stalin. One thing this guy has right is there is nothing gained in people being bar B Qed forever. He says purgatory is in the Bible ? ? ? REALLY, Where ? Just because the CATHOLIC church taught it in the 2ed century, does not make it Biblical.

@stephengorman1025 Жыл бұрын

This is so good Rom 11v32-36.

@roypage 11 ай бұрын

Very good analysis.i teach the same thing. God bless you.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

Trust me, every church it Shul I’ve ever been too doesn’t want to believe the truth.

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

Your content is very refreshing for the depth and simplicity, it makes it possible to reach those who are caught up in semantics to learn the truth. - YQA

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

@reynaldoperez7285 I have disagreed with this exact translation for a while now. The word "μέλλοντι" mellonti, in proper context is translated like this : Matt. 12:32 And if one who speaks words onto the Son of Man, it will be forgiven of him (them), one whoever speaks onto the Spirit that is Holy this won't be forgiven, not in this age, not in its *preparation*. It seriously meant the way it is prepared and presented, it's not about what's "coming" as you say but the way it has been planned to 'come on'.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@@yqafree ◄ 3195. melló ► Strong's Concordance melló: to be about to Original Word: μέλλω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: melló Phonetic Spelling: (mel'-lo) Definition: to be about to Usage: I intend, am about to; I delay, linger. HELPS Word-studies 3195 méllō - properly, at the very point of acting; ready, "about to happen." 3195 (méllō) is used "in general of what is sure to happen" (J. Thayer). Oh yeah it's coming alright, and if you are not born again you will die in your sins. New International Version And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

@KevinGeneFeldman 25 күн бұрын

When the Bible says the last enemy to be defeated is death, could it be seen as "there will no longer be death from this point on" or could it be understood that death being defeated means there can be no lasting effect of death, because if there is anyone that remains dead forever, doesn't it in some way mean death itself is forever? To defeat death, all that are dead must cease to be dead right?

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 24 күн бұрын

Death is God's enemy, because God is the Creator of life. Therefore death will not be permitted to claim anything God created.

@auntieanna Жыл бұрын

Great pinpoint here! Can someone link me a video dealing with Matthew 26:24? Thankyou!

@alwaysadawg6488 Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Could you do a video analyzing Matthew 22:14 - "Many are called but few are chosen"? How does it align with universal salvation. That verse still troubles me.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

It would be a short video. Christ is saying many are called, which is actually everyone, but few are "chosen". It's the idea of being elected, as for an office or special purpose, such as the Prophets and Apostles were chosen, not merely called.

@alwaysadawg6488 11 ай бұрын

Thank you! That verse has always troubled me. @@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

I’ve been trying to show my friend whose a believer these truths becusse her daughter isn’t a believer and she constantly in fear attacks her saying she’s going to eternal hell for ever if she doesn’t accept Yeshua.

@dorian4559 Жыл бұрын

Amen! Gods wants all of his creation to be saved eventually through whatever means.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@Frank-st6gd Жыл бұрын

Matthew chapter 18 verses 6 thought 9. Eturnal fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

@kensey007 9 ай бұрын

It doesn't say eternal. Stop manipulating the Bible. Rev. 22:18-19.

@Frank-st6gd 9 ай бұрын

@@kensey007 It says it read it carefully.

@kensey007 9 ай бұрын

@@Frank-st6gd Sorry I was unclear. The fire may be eternal (although we would need to check the translation) but it doesn't say the time in the fire is eternal.

@benjaminwhitley1986 3 ай бұрын

@Frank-st6gd the Greek word (aionios) employed here for “eternal” has layered meanings similar to many other words. Jude 1:7 says sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by “eternal (aionios) fire” to serve as an example. Obviously, that fire is not still burning today. The fire was of an eternal nature or of another world contrasted with that of an early nature of fire. In Romans 16:25, Paul speaks of a mystery of the ages (aionios: also translated as eternal). This secret isn’t eternal in the sense that it is endless but rather that its nature is of a different age (aion/eon/age). Hebrews 5:9, 6:2, 9:12 speaks of “eternal (aionios) salvation” “eternal (aionios) judgment” and “eternal (aionios) redemption” respectively yet it is “salvation and not saving”, “judgment and not judging”, and “redemption not redeeming”, meaning the salvation and judgment and redemption are of an eternal NATURE or of another world or another kind contrasted with that of an earthly salvation, judgment, or redemption. These passages employ the same Greek word (aionios) used to describe the fire in the passage you used, however the fire that destroyed sodom and Gomorrah isn’t endless, the mystery Paul speaks of isnt endless, the saving, judging, and redeeming the author of Hebrew speaks of isn’t endless or infinite, the adjective (ainios/ages: eternal) is employed to describe the quality/kind/nature of these. Hopefully this gives some nuanced or at least another way of understanding what is meant by the translation “eternal” as we read it. There ARE Greek adjectives which do mean infinite or endless however none of those adjectives are ever used for punishment or fire when used for sinners. Peace.

@quinnvandehoef8699 Жыл бұрын

Would you be willing to do a commentary/explanation on Jesus talking to people in Matthew 5:20?

@thepositeer3385 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video. Where is the best place to find a Concordance? I have had a hard time finding a reliable one. It seems like the newer "revised editions" that are on the Internet seem biased. Thank you

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

Search "Greek lexicon archive" and some older versions will appear the search results. But those older lexicons are a bit difficult to use if you don't at least know the Greek alphabet, because they assume you do.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

And how can the Son be subjected to Hashem the Father if the Son is the Father? People who believe Yeshua is God need to understand this.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

The Jewish Sages believe we are here on Earth for soul correction. Teshuva.

@Frank-st6gd Жыл бұрын

Also Mark chapter 9 verse 43.. Eturnal fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

@freethinker77 4 ай бұрын

Nothing implies that anybody will be in that fire for eternity. Ex, the fire itself could be _'unquenchable',_ but the residents may still come and go.

@Metarig Жыл бұрын

The Catholic Church holds the belief in the potential for universal salvation and uniquely subscribes to the concept of purgatory. Could you kindly share your objections to the Catholic doctrine?

@trofaznimotor901 5 ай бұрын

how is that case?

@quinnvandehoef8699 Жыл бұрын

Would you be able to do an exegesis on “let the filthy stay filthy, and the righteous stay righteous”? Revelation 22:11?

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

I think John of Patmos was speaking to the fact that in every human person while in the earth tends to holiness and unholiness, for we act in Holy inspiration for some durations and unholy and unclean inspirations for some durations. It is up to the individual and the Holy God in unison, that while one is suffering in the flesh, that is while bound to the sin-blighted cursed earth, for them to synergistically sanctify the man progressively to better and better repentance. This demonstrates the work of the Holy One, who never stops working, the One who blesses man to emulate His likeness in the heart and thus reflect, enact and utter the gospel more and more. Multiply the seed, for the universal Truth, the Logos, also manifests in the particular, He is as immanent as He is Transcendent. - Your Quality Apologist

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@yqafree2581 Bro this is straight up trash. What you are saying is that there is another gospel, a gospel of suffering unto salvation by punishment. THE ONLY WAY IS THROUGH BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST RIGHT NOW THIS DAY. TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION. STOP TEACHING THAT DEMONIC DOCTRINE.

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

@reynaldoperez7285 No it's all one package. We've been both good and evil, Christ inspires the good so therefore that part of ourselves whenever acted good was and is with Christ and the bad part of ourselves gets the good news that it isn't all lost but is ultimately healed and purified of evil, and this is because Christ can bear it and still have and give true life. The other gospel is fire insurance which isn't insurance and defines the Holy God and His plan by the limits of natures, worldly essences (rather than the transcendence of the Holy One) and duality. That is one of the other false gospels that Paul warned us about. - YQA

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

@reynaldoperez7285 Every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Christ is the lord. And in Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive. We're destined to being born-again of the Spirit and fire of Holiness. All are saved, especially those who believe. Search the scriptures and match the verses.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@@yqafree Wrong, King James Bible 1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Collasians 2:8 New International Version See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. 1 Timothy 4:1 1Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. 5Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Peter 3:9 New International Version The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

Do you think purgatory and the Jewish Ghenna are the same? Just curious.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 5 ай бұрын

It has been interpreted as that, however that is unclear to me related to Gehenna, which was an actual place of earthly judgment. And it's very specifically a depiction of earthly bodies being eaten and burned in the open air, which would have been a shameful death for the 1st century Jewish people who took great care, love, and respect in their burial practices. So it could simply be a warning to avoid a shameful death. Spiritualizing it is merely an interpretation, and I'm not convinced that was the point of the message.

@HigherStates1111 Жыл бұрын

hey i have a question, will satan, the demons, baal, the antichrist etc. be redeemed and purified also?

@charlesfeatherston2436 Жыл бұрын

All things mean all things. It's not complicated.

@davepugh2519 Жыл бұрын

It's all imaginary anyway.

@artbyrobot1 Жыл бұрын

they will of course be redeemed by the Lord because He loves His enemies and they are chief of enemies. His love never fails and his mercy endures forever. He never gives up until he finds his lost sheep.

@carlosfurones0117 Жыл бұрын

This is another topic that has different views. For example, I do not believe that satan is a independent supernatural being. The dualistic-like idea came in during the Persian exile when the Hebrews began to adopt the dualistic idea of one good God and another bad god or god-like being. We can get into this topic of you’d like

@Carlos-sr8km Жыл бұрын

@@davepugh2519repent buddy

@thanevakarian9762 6 ай бұрын

What about the epistle to diognetus from the early second century? Doesn’t the author claim to have learned from the apostles, and talk about ECT in it?

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

Honestly what would be the purpose of endless punishment? Makes zero sense.

@DIBBY40 11 ай бұрын

I'm no longer evangelical Christian, in no small part because of the doctrine of ECT. I found it a religion based on fear. Your videos are very thoughtful and hopeful though. However some of the comments underneath reflect a little too much "enthusiasm" for ECT! Even to the point of branding you heretical.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 10 ай бұрын

The popularity of ECT has lead many to assume it's a critical church doctrine, it simply isn't.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

No way Hashem would cause someone to suffer for eternity without rest. Insane! Imagine having to hold something heavy above your head forever and never be allowed to put it down.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

Not even the Jewish Sages believed in an eternal hell punishment.

@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 Жыл бұрын

The decree is eternal ie. irrevocable and unchanging not the conscious torment of damned mortal humanity. They will eventually be annihilated and the only way to understand Biblical terms describing their fate like perish, destruction and second death. I reject ECT and universal reconciliation.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

That idea is certainly more palatable than ECT. The problem is that doctrine is confounding "destruction" with "annihilation". Yes, God destroyed Sodom, but also promised to restore Sodom (Ezekiel 16:53). The doctrine of annihilation assumes God made a mistake in creating certain people, which is theologically untenable.

@IsaacNussbaum 6 ай бұрын

We need to keep in mind that Matthew 25: 46 does not teach eternal punish-ING; it teaches eternal punish-MENT. So, what, exactly, is this punishment which, once executed, can never be reversed? Paul answered that question. He explained that the lost will cease to exist. ✴ _[The unsaved] will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction…._ (2 Thessalonians 1: 9, ESV)

@vince.sarigumba Жыл бұрын

We Hope that There is No eternity hell fire punishment or everlasting punishment or eternal punishment hell fire. The verse of matthew 25:46 and revelation 14:9-11 and revelation 20:10 seems to eternity torment, I Hope that this is Not true

@tomm6167 2 ай бұрын

A lot is riding on this: In the dozen or so verses where hell, the lake of fire or destruction is said to be "eternal," "everlasting" or "forever," it's based on the Greek word _aionios._ If you google "aionios" you'll find many opinions about its meaning. There are excellent reasons to believe it should be translated "of an age." The adjective _aionios_ is derived from the noun _aion,_ which means "eon" or "age." Eons and ages are long but *finite* periods of time. The very literal Rotherham's Emphasized Bible version translates _aionios_ as "age-abiding." Young's Literal Translation says "age-during," which means during an age. Blessings! Also, the fact that "forever and ever" in Rev. 20:10 is nonsensical (how can anything be added to forever?) is a red flag -- not about biblical authority but about Bible translations from the Greek.

@NickSandt Жыл бұрын

This might be a little off topic but as you were reading the Nicene creed I noticed that the belief of Jesus being God is not in there. I’ve been watching lots of debates within Christianity about eschatology, soteriology, and the belief of Jesus being God. A lot of trinitarians seem to think this belief is orthodoxy and label dissenters as heretics.

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

Do you think Jesus has eternal diety, or do you think He was only supposed to be a special prophet or something else?

@Duarteyahoo272 Жыл бұрын

It does say "very God of very God" while talking about Jesus and also "of one essence with the Father". And even if it is not so clear in the creed it is certainly clear in actual Scripture (John 1:1, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, 1 John 5:20, Hebrews 1, Titus 2:13, Luke 18:19 + John 10:11, Matthew 1:23, Acts 20:28, Isaiah 40:10 + Revelation 22:12, Zechariah 14:3 + Revelation 19:19-21, John 20:28, Matthew 28:9-10, Romans 9:5, and more)

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

The creed says Christ is "begotten not made" and that he is "one essence" with the Father, "very God of very God". For example, frogs beget frogs and dogs beget dogs, and therefore God can only beget God. This is why Christ is the ONLY begotten Son. So I hope you'll reconsider your position on that.

@TheWhyisthatso Жыл бұрын

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838..."Christ" is another one of those words like "eternal" that is misused and misunderstood in the context of scripture. It simply means "messiah" or "anointed". The man Jesus was just a vessel for the "Word" of the Father. ( John 1:1-14 ) The "Word" of the Father is the "only begotten Son". The man Jesus has now been rewarded as the "firstborn from the dead", and given the authority of the "Son" as the man that is the mediator or "High Priest " between God the Father and man. If the man Jesus was anything more than a son of Adam ( son of man ) then all that he did for us means absolutely nothing .

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

@@TheWhyisthatso Do you presume that Jesus had to be a historical figure? Or could Jesus the Christ be so true that He is still the Truth regardless of how He exists? For if He, in regards to our local history, is simply an allegorical being that speaks to the very reality of what is going on with creation and especially that of man, couldn't that be more than just sufficient? I think asserting that He must be a historical figure is potentially destructive for faith, for if no actual proof ever comes that He existed but we're still supposed to be faithful we ought to have the faith I just presented. I think the sparse evidence for Him being historical as a man is not strong. I'm not opposed to the notion of the historical Jesus but I certainly wouldn't act as if that's a lynchpin of my faith and tend towards His reality that He knows all of our deaths and suffering for all time, as the cross speaks to the tragedy of man in mind of virtue and lack thereof. - Your Quality Apologist

@HChartierKJV 4 ай бұрын

The King James Translators would ALL call you A FOOL. But your "Smarter" than the Kings Greatest Greek and Hebrew Scholars. Right...

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 4 ай бұрын

Actually they wouldn't call me a fool because they knew the meaning of these words too. Also, most of them could read St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate, and they knew the meaning of the Latin word "aeternus" (eternal) that they borrowed, it means "of an age", just like the Greek aionios does. They're just talking over your head.

@tentmaker2254 Жыл бұрын

Augustine was on his game when he came up with that argument. A solid one!

@christianuniversalist Жыл бұрын

If only he knew Greek he wouldn’t have made such a laughable assumption

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

Just the fact that Augustine had to make that argument of false equivocation demonstrates the idea of endless punishment wasn't obvious in the original languages.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@tentmaker2254 Жыл бұрын

It is eternal mate. Dont let these guys fool you into thinking it aint. No matter how you slice the word eternal, the duration is the same as the duration of eternal life in Matthew 25:46. So either our "eternal life" isnt really eternal, or it is and so is eternal judgment@@reynaldoperez7285

@alwaysadawg6488 Жыл бұрын

Two ages is not eternal. It is two ages. You said it yourself. "The bible tells us that there is at least 2 ages." This means that there very well may be more than two. If there are more than two ages, then not being forgiven in this age and the next one may mean that there are additional ages that may bring forgiveness. @@reynaldoperez7285

@Nehemiah277 Жыл бұрын

I really like your channel. You have some very important videos on many topics. Are you by chance familiar with the Kneeland NT? He was a Christian universalist. He renders Matthew 25:46 as: "And these shall go away into aionian punishment, but the righteousness unto aionian life." With an explanatory mark which states: "The word here rendered punishment, properly signifies correction inflicted for the benefit of the offender. The word aionian is explained in the preface." And he has a very lengthy paragraph in the preface explaining aion, aionian, etc., which space permits me from reproducing here, but which I think you will find most agreeable. I also recall in one of your videos, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, that you thought it perhaps most acceptable to not translate the word "aionian", but rather to leave it in its original state, which, as you can see, Kneeland chose to do.

@charleshines2142 Жыл бұрын

Of course it is for an age. Jesus is just going to punish for sin. He doesn't want to be a tyrant and torture all of us. Does he? I would think it is out of character for Jesus to be tyrant like that. He wants us to come to him for help. Now think of this, if you want people to come to you for help would you be an evil tyrant? Of course not, no one will come to you then or they will be reluctant to come to you.

@theundeservedflavor 7 ай бұрын

I don't care if purgatory is "biblical." You can make the bible say whatever fits your mood. Purgatory is as nonsensical and incoherent as ECT and annihilation.

@StobbeTime 5 ай бұрын

Mark K Baxter and Bull Weise. SMH

@masterkeep Жыл бұрын

He is wrong from the start. Punishment is reserved for "a day," but its consequences don't end. The same word used to describe punishment lasting in Matthew is the same word used to describe reward lasting. Either both are everlasting or neither are everlasting. Second, the same description exists in each of the Gospels in different stories, each using the same words to describe the duration of rewards and punishment. Thirdly, it was already taught in Daniel 12 that way and is taught again in Revelation 20 the same way.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

Remember, aiṓnios and aeternus both pertain to an age, referring to location not duration. Also the word "κόλασις" translated as "punishment" in the passage actually means "correction". Why should we think correction is endless?

@masterkeep Жыл бұрын

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 An age is always a time, not a location. This is, by definition, the very meaning of the word. Certain ages may bring to mind differing locations, but they mean time. Your understanding of the Greek here is incorrect. Plato may have thought something similar; however, he didn't speak Koine. He spoke Attic, which is different. The language had changed by the time of the New Testament so that, functionally, it means both correction and punishment.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

@@masterkeep Are you not currently in the 21st century? As far as word definitions I've looked at every Greek lexicon I could find, I've read an entire scholarly thesis on just that word complete with numerous examples of usage, from Plato to the Septuagint, aiṓnios never means endless unless the context forces that idea. I see nothing about punishment that would force that idea, unless we're assuming the worst of God.

@masterkeep Жыл бұрын

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 what has the 21st century have to do with any of this? You say the punishment cannot be eternal without thinking the worst about God. This poses another problem. That means our heavenly reward and time as the bride cannot be eternal, as the exact same word, used in the exact same verse, in exact parallelism is what says our reward is eternal. Your dislike for how God thinks doesn't change what he has said. In Daniel 12, we have the resurrection foretold, with the same parallelism, some to eternal life and some to eternal contempt. The words there are the same also. Isaiah 45:17 uses those Hebrew words to say we have an everlasting salvation. It cannot be everlasting in one part of the verse and not again in the same verse. "For his thoughts are not our thoughts nor are our ways his ways."

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

@@masterkeep That same Hebrew word "ad" from Isaiah 45:17 is used past tense in Habakkuk 3:6 and the translators didn't say the "infinite hills collapsed" So even there you would infer endlessness based on the context.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

All wrong. It would have been better if you would never have been born. Well if you would never had been born, you wouldn't of known anything. But you will know something when you find yourself wishing that you were never born. He'll is eternal. You can't ever come to your senses without coming to Christ.. There is no purgatory. There is no second chances.

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

Apparently I'm guilty of being overly optimistic about God, not seeing his everlasting wrath mentioned anywhere in the bible. "For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone." - Lamentations 3:31-33 NIV

@artbyrobot1 Жыл бұрын

you quote: It would have been better if you would never have been born. - and by this you refer to Jesus telling Judas this. --- this is a easy to refute counter argument. Jesus is alluding to the OT here as he often does and the passage he alludes to here is: A man may father a hundred children and live for many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he is unsatisfied with his prosperity and does not even receive a proper burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he. ---- so a man like Judas who does not even receive a proper burial (bowels spilled onto a field) and is unsatisfied with his earnings (the silver for the kiss) is better off STILLBORN. A stillborn child is never born. It goes straight to heaven. So Judas would have been better off going straight to heaven, dead in the womb, than to be born and live a ugly life and die a rebel and go to age during correction in the afterlife. You say "There is no second chances." --- Jonah died and repented in hell and was given a second chance. So did all the people who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah who Jesus descended into hell to preach to during his 3 days under the earth. He gave them the chance to repent.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

@artbyrobot1 Jonah did not go to hell. Judas was not a believer. There is no repentance after death. Jesus didn't preach repentance in hell. The people from long ago before the days of noah are still awaiting judgment though they have been judged already. You got everything wrong. What religion are you?

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Жыл бұрын

@@reynaldoperez7285 That there is no repentance after death is not what Christians believed historically, that's a new opinion based on nothing. God never changes, he's the same gracious being after we die as he is before we die.

@artbyrobot1 Жыл бұрын

@@reynaldoperez7285 yes the Bible teaches jonah went to hell. Go read it fool. You say "There is no repentance after death. Jesus didn't preach repentance in hell." --- that's a lie. He did preach repentance in hell. it says: For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit You ask "What religion are you?" --- Christian sound in doctrine unlike you.

@rg442 Жыл бұрын

I thought you were a trinitarian. How then could the Father alone reign?

@yqafree Жыл бұрын

What?

@personthing7733 Жыл бұрын

Literally what?

@webz3589 6 ай бұрын

Yeah this is the one point (which i have seen so far) in which.i disagree with him.

@reynaldoperez7285 Жыл бұрын

You got it all wrong. Berean Literal Bible And if anyone speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but if anyone speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one. The bible tells us that there is at least 2 AGES, THIS ONE AND THE ONE TO COME. SO EVERLASTING MEANS EVERLASTING WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT BOTH AGES. YOU WON'T HAVE FORGIVENESS IN THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME, SOUNDS LIKE ETERNAL TO ME.

@tomm6167 2 ай бұрын

But Ephesians 2:7 says there are at least two ages _to come._

@dutchmcgee101 Ай бұрын

@@tomm6167Please don't feed the troll. He's posted the same comment five more times on this same video.