10.2 Amirdrassil Raid Boss Tier List

[@SwedetasticGames]

As a viewer, Mythic Fyrakk was a feast. Generally easy to follow what is happening, gut-clenching P3, the P1 projectile visualls from Dream Rend are actually gorgeous looking, watching the healer micro-ing on the healing adds during intermission, all making for a truly superb viewing experience. The very understandable level of insane difficulty, espescially P3, put the fear of Garf into anyone who has even casuall Mythic experience. Amazing race.

[@dtrgilmore]

You've summarised really well why enjoyed watching prog on that boss. It was really easy to understand but clearly so hard.

[@KevsShwaShwa]

I felt the complete opposite. P1 and P2 were boring garbage. Tindral was WAYYY more fun to watch because it looked impossible but you knew the guys could do it. And visually WAY cooler with dragon riding. I hated Fyrakk, I hated watching Fyrakk because P3 was the only fun part. Juggling seeds and managing corrupted seeds and blazes and tornadoes. There’s a lot there. Garbage fight and so boring. P2 is turbo swamp.

[@alexg959]

I really like how with T Swift it felt like you were fighting the OG version of a spec you've played as/with in WoW for years being boomy. I can see that being a really cool concept to carry forward into other raids. Like fighting a demo lock who periodically summons OP demons youve never seen before. Or a combo arcane/fire/frost mage or elemental shaman just redesigning the platform with the elements and whatnot. I know theyve done this before in some ways but this fight really felt almost nostalgic bc of how it was presented.

[@3rdPartyIntervener]

combo arcane/fire/frost mage was done - Shade of Aran, in OG Karazahn - but that's long enough ago that it should be revisited.

[@deadclicks]

I like to think that Gul'dan was the warlock equivalent of a class raid boss

[@jsjsjsjs]

You know you're old when you remember when "Sludgefists" were referred to as "Patchwerks"

[@kang1983]

He got outsourced 💔

[@i.j.dragonfly3123]

My mouse once died in the middle of a T Swift pull, and I ended up frantically plugging in my drawing tablet and doing the dragonriding phase that way. Coolest I've felt playing a video game in years

[@moldgrim1]

Epic :D

[@ZKrinny]

Here is a way to fix Fyrakk intermission. When he flies up he leaves 2 circles one of each color you have to soak to get your debuff. Then you don’t need the weak aura because you can assign and it will be consistant

[@3rdPartyIntervener]

Fyrakk smashes his axe one last time on the ground, creating two portals - one firey and one shadowy - on the ground, then flies away. You send 1/2 the raid into fiery and 1/2 the raid into shadowy. Intermission plays out the same, you still soak 3 rounds of orbs (and can see the other team's orbs and have to avoid them) and beat on the boss, but you can't otherwise interact with the other "team". Kind of a spin on the Halion fight in Ruby Sanctum. Tho yours is a lower-effort fix for the general problem of needing a WA to manage the chaos. My thought just... popped into my head.

[@Arcticp75]

With the system you've proposed the entire phase would become scripted. You as a player would know you are always getting purple, and always going to the same spot in the room. This isn't necessarily bad, but I don't believe it was what blizz intended with the mechanic. My read on the situation is that Blizzard wanted this mechanic to be reactive, changing from pull to pull. The players ideally would need to see what type they have and communicate to balance the sides and get in the right locations. Unfortunately it has the Neth problem where there is not enough time to actually communicate and get to the right place before the orbs start coming (without WAs). Maybe just adding 3 extra seconds before the orbs start spawning could fix this.

[@KevsShwaShwa]

Take the intermission away, P3 is the only good part of the fight. Fight needs too much fixing to get right.

[@sombrego2260]

I'm sorry but as a melee Nymue IS chaotic visually speaking. The perpendicular lines are borderline invisible. The lasers are confusing as hell and cherry on top when you play a mistweaver all of your abilities have the exact same colours as both the ground and all VFX. absolute nightmare

[@dficwriter]

We are now at Nymue and as a dh it sure is hell with all movement stuff on top of movement heavy rotation. xD Gets really chaotic in melee true. But fun tho, feels great when you dont do mistakes and manage to squeeze in jumps and fel rushes. Wish the colours were a bit more recognizable. And sometimes I barely see stuff due to gigantic meta wings lmao

[@NotsofatTheGamer]

Max I think the race would’ve gone faster if you took only Windwalkers and shadow priest :)

[@sofapillow7660]

a man of culture

[@shadowdragon8168]

24:07 I disagree on the visuals being overstated, there is to much green on green right at the base of the boss. Trying to see and avoid cutters as a melee or tank is horrendous because of how well the cutters can blend in with the boss or other mechanics. The visual clutter in this raid was not bad at all, but everything being said about Nymue having to much visual clutter is spot on or understated.

[@Eclipse4589]

I will also say from a colourblindness perspective that fight is horrid

[@finkruse3819]

I would go as far as calling the whole raid a visual mess

[@jaredthegymrat]

This is my first tier seriously raiding. I’ve full cleared normal and heroic. I fucking loved this raid. I really liked the council fight. Maybe the reason i like it is because im not bored of it from the older raids. but man this raid is so much fun. I can’t wait to keep farming

[@Diphyidae]

If there is a portion of a fight where there is both random assignment and players need to be in a specific spot, there needs to be a small free window for organization and positioning. Ideally youd also be giving each role a guaranteed 50:50 split, sorta like the charges in razegath. Then you do not need fancy weak auras and you wont get RNGed into a wipe as often.

[@Reliquarium]

Hi, AOTC Mistweaver here. Can confirm, dispell chores on Fyrakk are ass, even with Revival.

[@ac833]

Only at the beginning here re: first boss and the reason Shriekwing was better was the light phase and pillars. It was so much fun playing hide and seek

[@LATHSPELL70]

The ping system for mythic mechanic on Nymue is GOATED

[@jimhagglof217]

i think the correct way to deal with the issue of weak auras assigning positions is for the debuffs themselvs to do so if possible, in the transition phase for example each person could get a specific orb to catch or a point to get a buffs so they dont die etc

[@Philwastaken00]

Mythic fatescribe had this. There was a mechanic where a few ppl in the raid got a debuff and had to move to a soak only they could see before the cast went off, dont remember what it was called

[@arcticzzshadow8421]

I once met Dratnos in a Trial of Valor pug. I remembered his name from old cata videos and minecraft content that he made before his channel turned into what it is now. Had him added on battlenet for a little bit when he saw that I recognized him. Dratgoat

[@yangabrielreisoliveira8306]

amirdrassil is a top 5 raid. case closed

[@anannoyedpanda]

Honestly. It's so much fun and there isn't a boss that I'm like "ugh" at. They're all well made and the area is beautiful. And amidrassil itself off the coast of ohnaran plains is wonderful to hangout at.

[@jaredthegymrat]

agreed

[@douglasmccarthy5661]

@@anannoyedpanda depends on the class you play. If you play melee, larodar gets very annoying quick due to all the down time during his constant charges. The council fight is pretty bad all the way around. Can’t stack the bosses so aoe doesn’t work. Also another shit fight for melee due to the bosses always moving, but not as bad as larodar in this term. Other than these two fights, the raid is very solid. Tendril is one of the best bosses they’ve ever made, and fyrakk is also very fun when done correctly.

[@sombrego2260]

I like the raid but it's too much fire on green in terms of theme. The bosses are very boring outside of the fight itself they all have very generic designs. It would have been a cool first raid but as the last I'm a bit meh. The fights are cool but as a healer the frustration regarding the UI on healing adds doesn't help me liking it.

[@jthomas7453]

I think my only complaint is it's honestly too easy. My guild isn't exactly top tier, and we cleared heroic in 2 weeks with half the group being under item level, it just felt like it finished really quickly.

[@Tensooni]

For the Fyrakk auras thing, i could imagine it if they broke it down with some kind of ramp up. An example could be: you are assigned color and 2 soak circles (purple/red) appear. leg it to them. They then split into 4 soak circles (2 of each). By yoloing those you get enough time to figure out who has what, and do some "body language signalling" of how to spread out. Could tune them to where you need good reaction time to get there in time, or have other things going on simultaneously. Like how Raszageth had 2 stack groups, but in order to not run over each other people would spread, maybe assign some traffic rules, etc.

[@beardedmoogle]

Ret Paladin has Wings every damage amp on Smolderon. Its so good.

[@ALTAccount-ip9es]

Max cares so much about what other people think, it's really off putting

[@matthewhudson6036]

I think S tier first boss is just something really whacky and fun. Since you can't make it very difficult just do something crazy. I wouldn't say they have ever made an S tier first boss.

[@Frawt]

Tarragrue would have been pretty close to S tier for me if changing the powers wasn't such a pain in the ass.

[@darth_ow8024]

You can design a better Fyrakk Intermission, by making the selection of color controllable. If you're under left wing of Fyrakks, when the pushback happens you get one color. If you're under right wing you get another. Maybe use a soak on each side, that requires X minimum of people inside each side. So now you can pick who gets the colors, and can distribute the movement responsibility, and control it with a plan.

[@linkofkokori]

As a Late CE to barely missing CE raider, Volocross for us was exactly what you said it could've been, getting the kill as he enrages. It felt epic af. That being said, we also had a dps dead the entire pull and a healer dead for the last half of the fight, so there's that too.

[@dflowers6771]

i play classic almost exclusively but enjoy all the content you guys put out.. keep em coming!

[@cryogenical_]

Volcoross was so undertuned that even with our warrior DCing after lust and being dead the entire fight, we killed it on our second pull with a minute left to kill. Could've had 10-20% more health and would have been fine.

[@pontusgustafsson218]

In fyrakk p2 they shouldve made it so the intermission only 1 time, then the nerf isnt necessary, and the adds work as it should, fire for fire and shadow for shadow, like council boss, if you kill one to early the one dead regains health etc, then it wont be repetative and there is room for a ”secret” phase later

[@CalvinHavener]

I know he ranks them on the Mythic difficulty, but I wonder where he would put Heroic Fyrakk on the list.

[@louis1111111111111]

the kind of mecanic like intermission of fyrakk need to get spread equaly inside grp, this way you can asigne grp zone around the boss and " yolo it"

[@emimonsterlicious]

“I just think the general Concept, Uniqueness,” Nerve, and Talent of this is really really fukkin good.” (Is what my brain heard)

[@mksteele99]

I play WoW in Fullscreen (Windowed) for the display mode... is that bad? I heard Max made a comment about it, the only other option is Windowed mode

[@joshualuttrell7269]

Max tries not to complain about clueless viewers challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]

[@tjchan9191]

I had exactly that volcoross fight shown in LFR the other night! 😂

[@MrAlbinoGhost]

"not much to call during nymue" someone hasn't heard of chad goats

[@zacebbflo]

Can anyone find anything or any source on why he says Larodar is one of the best healing fights? I think it’s mid/low imo

[@toreole]

Thank you for speaking the truth about this council boss being absolute ass

[@tylercarr6940]

sad they didnt bring up the 11min kill as a solo DH tank as long as you make it to the enrage of the boss. -1 point for me. Also, I dont know if people have they might have can you release the macro that you used for Fyrakk Intermission?

[@AuraPanda]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't someone from blizzard go on record after the RWF of Sepulcher and basically say "we will never again tune bosses with RWF in mind"? As a casual player, this raid was fantastic and I feel like your comparisons of "end of wing bosses" between Amirdrassil and Shadowlands don't work because, again, I'm pretty sure I remember that quote from above coming out. The raid seemed tuned for casual raiders but Tindral and Fyrak were tuned so the RWF peeps would have to earn it. Then they nerf those fights to the ground so the average joe's have a chance to clear it.

[@Crunchy_93]

As a healer, Fyrakk has become my absolute favorite fight to heal even with the dispels. A lot of the time, I can tune out and just press my buttons which isn’t particularly interesting. Very few fights actually have a healer specific mechanic - I just have to make sure no one dies and do the normal boss mechanics. This raid had several bosses with healer specific mechanics, but Fyrakk was the most fun to me. It’s such a hectic fight to heal and essentially being forced to use your CDs anytime they are up felt really good. Idk how many fights I’ve just never gotten a chance to use Revival, or Rewind, or Spirit Link. And pressing a dispel constantly - a button that you don’t really ever use on bosses - added another skill ceiling requirement to reach which to me is rewarding. Immediately after we killed Fyrakk, my buddy who is also a healer whispered me saying “HOLY FUCK THAT WAS SO INTENSE AND FUN”. Amirdrassil in general was a banger raid to heal and I hope they continue this trend of making interesting healer fights.

[@_ProTrax]

Google goatse

[@FatherelTV]

Man not sure what raid you are playing, IMO this was the worst raid of all time to heal. Probably done with raiding and maybe wow after these fight designs. All fights but smold, nymue and gnarl belong in F tier. We are a world ~1100-1300 CE guild typically. On pull 500+ of Fyrakk rn.

[@fluff92]

but is weakauras really a problem? weakauras is really only a problem for the lfr to heroic raiders? i would argue that mythic only abilities maybe should be hard so you could use weakauras to solve them and heroic versions would be easy enough to not need weakauras

[@ZKrinny]

Hard disagree with Max on Smolderon not being a fun healing fight. I think Smolderon, Larodar, Gnarlroot, Tindral and Fyrakk are all super fun to heal. I also don’t have issues with the boss frame stuff so I know a couple people will disagree with a couple based on that alone

[@Skiptoomyl0u]

I think they are all good healing fights in spite of the bad friendly healing frames

[@ZKrinny]

@@Skiptoomyl0u oh I like them all but those are stand out above the rest for me

[@Skiptoomyl0u]

@@ZKrinny I also agree that spam dispelling is real bad game design for a healer

[@ZKrinny]

@@Skiptoomyl0u yeah thats the thing I don’t have to do that in p2 because of the way my guild plays that fight i solo the adds and the other heals do the rest i just do one in between the add waves

[@micasreynhamar6946]

So on volceros my guilds first kill was on the enrage witch was prity cool

[@Chaplin097]

I'd think an S tier first boss needs to FEEL good, like something thematically interesting.

[@plasmahvh]

gnarlroot feels good no? a lot of aoe, lust in increased damage phase.. i cant think of a reason shriekwing feels better. also people who say tarragrue are clueless. tarragrue was very cool the first 2 weeks when you actually cared to get the best animas.

[@loganlaslo8718]

Like a corrupted wild god instead of a corrupted tree. Think of Ursoc.

[@Chaplin097]

@@plasmahvh but like it’s just a boring ass tree, sure it’s a A tier boss due to its mechanics but nothing about the actual boss makes you say wow.

[@plasmahvh]

@@Chaplin097 first boss of the raid isn't hard????????????????????? no way right guys?????????

[@Chaplin097]

@@plasmahvh smoking crack or what? No one is talking about difficulty here

[@nataku5379]

I would agree with the keeper of the grove, but he keeps charging out of my 25 yard range and i just hate it. Its almost as bad as weaver

[@menelys4059]

skorpyron is miles ahead of any 1st boss of any raid. gnarlroot is good tho anyway

[@LATHSPELL70]

Igira for RWF cannot accomplish what Max is talking about. For mythic raiding guilds outside of the HoF race, it mattered the first week what you picked.

[@LATHSPELL70]

Volocross died in less pulls than Igira for us. Agree

[@WarMage]

for shriekwing vs gnarlroot, i remember the shriekwing trinket, was super happy to get that on mythic... i couldn't tell you anything on gnarlroot's loot table... could that have something to do with it?

[@tuesti7c]

The only boss I'm not a big fan of is smolderon. I feel like it's too punishing on each individual. One person screws up and the whole raid is dead. I don't hate the fight but I wish it was just a little more forgiving. Trying to pug it on heroic is a rough time

[@JulenSanAlejoGonzalez]

Personal opinion, i love dps check boss ones, to me feel the best, those ones dps tryhards and smash their keyboard as hard and fast as they can to push. I love Smolderon

[@CelticShaman.]

Wait, I'm confused. This is the first time I've sort of kind of kept up with the race so forgive me for not knowing but does Max not actually play the game? I didn't watch any of the fights live but I was trying to figure out which character was his in the race and I couldn't seem to figure it out. And he just made a comment implying that he just watches the fight and strategizes.

[@Philwastaken00]

He watches Imfiredup's pov and just fully focus on raidleading outside of the raid. Last time he pulled a boss during prog was in Ny'alotha im pretty sure (he was raidleading from outside the raid for most of the fights that tier as well)

[@asmodai48]

How is mop not ancient

[@Nimbus3000]

Crazy to me that you guys put the wurm and nymue above council.

[@sasukefaan]

How is nathria considered top 5? There were like 3 genuinely fun fights to play on mythic.

[@MrAmyntas]

I've done 4 on mythic now, council by far most fun as a tank, others were boring

[@faminex]

loving amirdrassil so far but after a bit of smolderon prog I’m getting really tired of the red on red on red on red on red on red This isn’t anything new either, I wish blizz would make mechanics not blend in with everything including the bosses

[@Drew71707]

So if volcoross is that easy how bad is it if it took 15ish pulls…asking for a friend

[@karmalotto8587]

On one hand, I do get what you mean about Nymue not being as visibly difficult as people said. On the other hand, I want to point out that this entire season has felt like a nightmare if you have visual impairments and they could do better. Nymue doesn't HAVE to have to be that difficult to see. You mentioned Smolderon, his circles are awful because the floor itself is patterned, and so is the doughnut fire ring itself. I don't see why they put in the extra effort to give Smolderon a patterned doughnut fire ring when they could have gone with something more plain. There's several mythic dungeon bosses that also have awful visibility imo, but I guess my point is, the developer team needs to be more considerate of their visually impaired players instead of going "just have 20/20 vision, 4head." I just think they could do better.

[@p51mustang24]

I don’t have a visual impairment and these kinds of graphics universally make bosses less fun. Difficulty seeing things / poor contrast does not make for fun gameplay.

[@CaledonianCraft]

Personally I would have Castle Nathria ranking quite highly above Amirdrassil.

[@Darkrampager]

As a CE raider I appreciate difficult bosses but there's difficult and then there's this boss is going to kill tons of guilds at a certain level hard. I don't think having bosses that nukes guilds because it's impossible for them is acceptable. I understand world's first/top players in the world takes that they want gigga hard bosses but it's super toxic down the ranks because if blizz isn't super careful they're having lots of hard-core guilds die every time they do this/are slow to nurf.

[@FatherelTV]

You are an oracle for posting this 3 months ago. This is exactly what is happening for any guild over world 1000 CE right now.

[@Catxukluth]

Honestly I was very disappointed with how boring the tank mechanics were in this raid compared to Aberus, they aren’t offensively bad (except for igira wtf where they thinking) but everything is just super generic. Abberus had rashok, echo, and experiments that all had cool/interactive tank mechanics, with Amirdrassil none are particularly inspired. Tank/boss positioning is more important than ever but the mechanics themselves left a lot to be desired. Still a super sick raid though.

[@Shadowlyger]

Any mechanic you need a weakaura to automate is a bad mechanic. Three raids in a row with no such mechanics would be great.

[@Keyblader001]

I actually thought prototype pantheon was a decent fight.

[@katsenpai6957]

they should nerf weakaura functionality

[@awallthere89]

BRF made me quit the game for like 3 years. Something about that stupid fucking rolling frog boss tilted the shit out of me.

[@bobisadrummer]

Any boss with mechanics and spell graphics that are the same color as the environment is automatic sub F tier for me. The artists at Blizz need to relearn what complementary colors are.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

I said it early on and I'll say it again now that we've had some time... this raid isn't nearly as fun to play as a heroic raid tier compared to Aberrus especially in pugs. It also just has an absolutely boring AF theme and is very bland looking almost throughout... Aberrus was easily the most fun overall raid this xpac with even vault having a way more interesting theme and vibe than this. It's a good raid but it's a B+ IMO.

[@Fotumain13]

Council and Nymue belong on D tier.

[@daniellucas5522]

I think it's wrong and unfair to deduct points on boss ranking based on your choice to solve a mechanic using a macro and weak aura. If the mechanic is too hard or impossible to solve without such technology, that's valid. But not when you could have done it manually and chose to use annoying technology instead. Fundamentally, mechanics being solved by weak auras is not satisfying for players, and they should not be limiting design to things which are easier than pressing a macro at the correct time. The macro + weak aura solution is a problem which needs to be broken by blizzard, they need to make computational weak auras unviable bc they make the game worse.

[@KiaCya1]

mythic nymue as an evoker is probably the worst boss ever. Spending more than 1.5 mins on that fight not hitting the boss, sucks. Its not fun at all, soaking those flowers was so important and if you didnt have enough range, your evokers had to run too far out. Its probably fine for everyone else, but its NOT fun as evoker and im willing to die on that hill

[@williammiller3621]

To be honest, as strictly a viewer, watching Tindral as well as Fyrakk during RWF made me not want to raid in World of Warcraft. Granted I'm a very heavy casual, but complexity for the sake of it just isn't good encounter design to me.

[@mas9055]

the tier list of amirdrassil bosses max actually pulled himself made for a much shorter video

[@Rellfy]

Gotta disagree with the end. Castle Nathria GOAT of modern raids

[@VividVoid]

It also has what many consider to be the worst second to last boss ever. Honestly, if Stone Legion Generals was replaced with a good boss I would agree. But with that atrocity of a boss being there, it knocks it down a fair bit.

[@LessThanThree-r5b]

Sark is not a dragon. He is a beechboi

[@nivthefox]

I still cannot get over how wrong Max pronounces Nymue. lol.

[@lilbaby9547]

”nymwey” is just dumb

[@wowsew]

You can tell Max really gets butthurt over some of the stuff fans say in chat. Pull counts, strats, boss difficulty. Ya hate to see it. Dont let idiots make you look like that my guy.

[@biviter]

Common max banger

[@RichieKhan]

Maybe it’s the theme of the raid, but it doesn’t resonate with me as much. The last two fights on heroic was bomb though, absolutely loved it. Aside from that the raid felt too easy. Nathria was the last raid that I absolutely loved.

[@issacmorris60]

PoddyC modCheck

[@synchrogods]

I don´t know if it´s because i´m a Holypriest Main ( Season mid / late-ish CE usually), we all know the tuning, or if it´s the Raid itself but i really do not have much fun this raid. Abbility visuals straight up suck. Why do not telegraph CLEARLY what is happening, like FF does. Also the bosses just don´t get me. Obviously it´s subjective but i don´t like this season at all. Including M+. Dungeons are fun but so much shit is so oneshotty. I don´t know. Also the private aura shit. It´s getting more and more into a really bad direction. Mechanics so "hard" you need a WA for but they want to deny it and mechanics that are colored like everything else happening. Turbo bad design.

[@Daniel-kn9xr]

I prefer wotlk heroic modes to the absolute clown fiesta of retail mythic raiding, it's just a complete mess and unfun with addons and weakauras that are mandatory

[@KevsShwaShwa]

I thought Fyrakk was a massive step down from Tindral. Tindral was insane every single pull and Fyrakk was impossibly boring to watch. P1 sucked compared to Tindral, intermission and P2 is AWFUL, P3 is the only part where there's some chaos and it's fun to watch and play. The rest is garbage. Tindral is also so unique, absolute screamer. There’s not much trash in the raid which feels good. I like Smolderon, Larodar, probably the best overall raid but my god Fyrakk sucks. Raza and Fyrakk are both terrible end bosses.

[@20the20]

most of this i agree on but wow i cant disagree with council and larodar more. i think larodar is basically as good as a healing boss can be. might lose a few points tuning wise for difficulty being a wing end boss but man this boss kicks fucking ass on mythic and the design is incredible. super fun, super unique, s tier in my opinion. council also like please give me a break about not being able to cleave. you couldnt cleave on council of blood either but you bring it up as the best council boss in every discussion. the mechanics arent quite as good but d tier is a disgraceful rating. there have been quite a few d tier bosses in recent memory and this doesnt come close to those. its fun, its challenging enough for an early boss, and its got new ideas in it.

[@fonzerino7386]

Nathria is not top 5, Sargeras is better and has a way better story, we don't even have to go that far back since Sepulchre is just straight up better and a thousand times more epic Ironic that 0 raids were u competed and u were beat show up in that list but u manage to sneak one where u won and coincidentally happens to be number 5, and it just comes as a given, i wonder if u had to pick a top 4 how would Siege fare, at the end of the day it is ur opinion so fair but things that make u go hmmmm

[@Viindiagram]

Can you have your video editor chill with the single line skipping in the videos? Like good lord man it sounds so unnatural.

[@TheWikkdOne]

Raid sucks, many mechanics you can't see. Blizzard still doesn't realize this after how many years?

[@StevenBoston-k7p]

Oooof that sponsor was truly horrific. Don’t do it max, I beg of you!!!!

[@RichieKhan]

Why? Let my man eat. He puts out amazing content, let him make dough out of it from our entertainment.

[@schmidth]

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