14 Psychotic And Ruthless G.I Joe Villains - Backstories Explained In Detail

[@superultraboy]

This was such a satisfying video! GI Joe is absolutely my favorite 80’s cartoon and toy line, yet seemingly always in the shadow of Transformers, but not in my heart ❤️👍

[@frybelcher]

My dad bought replacement rubber bands for the waists of my hand-me-down g.i. Joes from my older brother.😂 Lasted a good decade after that.

[@Fenris77]

@@frybelcher I tried to fix those on my 90s version Stormshadow... I begame a ragdoll and then...

[@altarush]

You should rank them by their psychosis.

[@gabriellaskey6798]

Glad I grew up with this when I was a kid. 80's/early 90's was a good time to be a kid.

[@vsnutz]

You got that right!

[@mreaper773]

That's what I tell my 13yo son. He has no clue the sheer amount of decent cartoons that were out during that time period. Until I started showing him!

[@sith7183]

Yes.Simpler Times

[@archangel5627]

I completely agree with you. Growing up in the 80s and early 90s was a great time to be a kid. We had awesome cartoons, great toys that were loaded with play value (they didn’t break after opening the package) and because life was simpler we didn’t have as many hang ups that prevented us from really living life. I consider us very fortunate to have had great childhoods.

[@JMWidon]

THE BEST SIR!🤗

[@dougmonroe4182]

When Hasbro was trying to put together the A Real American Hero toy line they didn’t even have villains. Larry Hama, writer and editor at Marvel Comics was selected to craft a comic series which would bring the characters to life. It was his idea to introduce villains for the Joes to fight- because what else were the Joes going to do each comic- do drills? Ron Rudat, toy designer at Hasbro was responsible for the design aesthetics of each character and invented the Cobra emblem for the villains. Mr. Hama also crafted the character dossiers which included their name and backstory. Those dossiers were abbreviated and became the file cards on the back of the toy packages. Ron Friedman had has own take on the characters personalities and their interpersonal relationships to make them cartoon friendly but, cartoon, film or otherwise, those characters originated with the design talents of Ron Rudat and Larry Hama.

[@nat129]

No discussion of the years Cobra Commander spent honing his evil as a car salesman in Springfield?

[@remc0s]

He was an actual car salesman and only became "evil" after the government seized his business. This fact combined with the loss of his brother caused his depression and inspired him to gather like-minded, disgruntled people to found Cobra and destroy the US government. There is a movie with a similar plot, called Arlington Road in which an unassuming average Joe and his wife found a secret organization that attacks the US government because the bank seized his father's farmland.

[@michaelbenjmitchell1]

@@remc0s His brother died in the same drunk driving accident that killed Snake Eyes family in the comics (CC's brother was the Drunk Driver).

[@eyeseer1]

Cobra Commander was same voice actor of G1 Starscream of Transformers and the original voice of Mr. Burns in The Simpson’s. Chris Latta.

[@garthdavis3156]

Fun Fact: Golobulus was voiced by the late Burgess Meredith.

[@errolthomas9426]

He was also fantastic as The Penguin on the original Batman tv series including the 1966 motion picture

[@beaupierrebondurant5651]

Supreme ruler of the kingdom of Cobra La.

[@michaelstachowski1969]

Ppl shouldn't like this video if they didn't know that

[@sidearmsalpha]

Good on Larry Hama for not giving in. Even as a kid I found the whole Cobra-la story a desperate attempt for a sci fi story. The movie overall was a huge letdown except for that kickass intro and the quality of the animation.

[@kennethdemuchest3985]

I wish they could have continued the plot after Cobra la lA stories.

[@BlackHart730]

you smoking rocks.

[@Schuchknight47]

Don’t agree. Loved the movie and nemesis enforcer was a badass!!!

[@kryogenik2073]

So glad I grew up with this. Honestly the 80s and the early 90s was the best time to be a kid. Sure my kids have more tech or gaming goodies...but they'll never know how awesome it was to be their age during the 80s though.

[@minatodroger7890]

True

[@marcelljackson2868]

I agree we had wayyyy to much fun back in the 80s

[@losatron]

Agreed! Glad I went through the whole decade and the early 90's as a teen

[@ddw76y]

I love Destro. I hate how he was portrayed in the cartoon compared to the comic book. Definitely one of the top 5 GI Joe characters.

[@HamanKarn567]

I thought some episodes did him super good and then others forget his character completely so maybe different director and writers.

[@kenrunkle2036]

Yeah, Destro was Scottish but a black guy did his voice on the cartoon. Huh?

[@richbattaglia5350]

Lucky bastard

[@AndyC3.0]

I always love the baroness but where she reign supreme is in the GI Joe cartoon. The baroness is no joke in the cartoon, and probably the best spy that Cobra has ever had. Being one of the few females besides zarana at the time in Cobra she didn't take any smack from no one and that's what I liked about her ! Hail cobra !!!

[@cynthiamiller586]

She was far more efficient in the comics.

[@shannonpollard3964]

Hail Cobra lol.

[@commentcopbadge6665]

@@shannonpollard3964 Fail nobra!

[@greglemieux9809]

@@commentcopbadge6665 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 love me some robot chicken.

[@yankees29]

I love the Baroness as well. Great character.

[@brianknapp6215]

Interesting Fact: Criticism from parents over the death of Optimus Prime in 1986's Transformers: The Movie led Sunbow to alter the script of G.I.Joe: The Movie- which originally called for Joe leader Duke to be killed, and later succeeded by his younger brother Falcon (voiced by Don Johnson in the film). As the animation was complete, they wrote and recorded new dialogue to put Duke "in a coma" from which he later "woke up from" via an off-screen voice in the final scenes.

[@melissacooper4282]

My favorite Cobra villian in the G.I. Joe cartoon is Baroness!

[@brokenbridge6316]

I was a 90's kid. But I remember watching re-runs of this series fondly. And enjoying all of it. This franchise is one of my favorites. Great job with the video.

[@brianknapp6215]

The original hooded Cobra Commander figure was an exclusive mail-in offer from Hasbro. They later offered a "Steel Brigade" figure which came with a personalizable code name and file card (the figure itself was a hybrid of different parts and had a fully visored helmet.)

[@opscontaylor8195]

I had a Steel Brigade guy. He was a Helicopter Pilot and HTH Instructor. My imagination was wild back then.

[@brianknapp6215]

@@opscontaylor8195 I never got a Steel Brigade figure when they came out- bought one years later at a swap meet. Only Joe I have left...

[@uncledirtnap1]

I just left a comment about the Hooded Cobra Commander figure. I saved all my points that came in the back of all the boxes and sent them to Hasbro. I also did the same for Zartan before it got released for sale. Salute.

[@brianknapp6215]

@@uncledirtnap1 Never got Hooded Cobra Commander or Zartan- but I _did_ save up and get the MANTA (Marine Assault Nautical Transport) which was basically a windsurfing board with a gun and an outrigger with a missle (or a torpedo) on it that broke down to go in a backpack that fit on the back of a Joe... kinda.

[@uncledirtnap1]

@@brianknapp6215 That's good stuff. As a kid it was so cool having a toy nobody else had or you couldn't get at the local toy store. Salute.

[@19zach75]

G.I Joe had some of the best villains of any animated series ever. I have too many to name a favorite.

[@akuma2947]

Cobra Commander was an still my favorite G.I.Joe character.I just love his mask.

[@power-backinblack]

How about the saw viper (comics) that slaughtered all the joes in the ambush set up by the twins. That horrified me for decades.

[@chunky9791]

24:00 When cobra commander is holding a VHS tape, you know life is good!

[@pauljames21]

This was awesome. Thank you for the time and effort to make these storylines make sense.

[@Blackblax]

While I like the Baroness, I was more interested in Pythona. As a kid watching the GI Joe movie, I always found her fascinating & wanted to know more about her. Unfortunately I don't think Hasbro even created a backstory for her, as she was basically just used as "the new bad girl" for the GI Joe animated movie, when it 1st came out.

[@archangel5627]

Just like you after watching the GIJoe movie I was more interested in Pythona and I really liked Nemesis Enforcer. They were both really cool new characters.

[@Blackblax]

@@archangel5627 Indeed. Pythona & Nemesis Enforcer were far more interesting than most of the other characters. To me, they were the standouts of the movie. I wouldn't mind a "spin-off" of the 2, maybe as lovers or something.

[@dubuyajay9964]

I am afraid we are in the minority as the movie seems hated by most of the fandom.

[@Blackblax]

@@dubuyajay9964 What, the GI Joe animated movie? I guess it's like other animated movies from the 80s then (such as Transformers).

[@dubuyajay9964]

@@Blackblax Yes.

[@jamesmccormick875]

This brings back a lot of great memories. I grew up in the 80’s.

[@lukeharbolt7681]

Nemesis Enforcer !!!! I watched this VHS till it broke

[@dfailsthemost]

How are you gonna cut serpentor off mid "this, I command"?

[@leoquest1975]

So true. The disrespect is staggering.😁

[@megatronjenkins2473]

They cut a lot of sentences sho

[@dfailsthemost]

@@megatronjenkins2473 well played, Jenkins.

[@MeaCulpa04]

Because it was dumb , he said it when it wasn’t even needed.it was a good change from cobra commander temporarily but They could have done him better.

[@scottdahlberg4890]

I still have some of the original line of toys, Duke; Gung Ho, Snake Eyes, Cobra Commander and more. I still love them.

[@yankees29]

I have a bunch of stuff. We have the Terrordome in my parents basement. Lol

[@Maine307]

i am an 80s kid.. loved these guys, hell, i even did 20 yrs as a US Marine .. and i can confirm this show was a tribute to my thinking and growing up.

[@codyboothe2310]

I am glad you guys are finally doing this one

[@kingghidorah102]

Cobra would be a cool Metal Gear villain faction, Stormshadow and Firefly feels right at home in MGS

[@ronaldmccomb8301]

Your voice makes me picture someone who was too young to be a kid in the 80’s.

[@mikewillis9537]

Tomax and xamot have recently been sighted at a local Amazon warehouse where they are reported to be fitting right in with upper management

[@skrefter]

I thought they were at Walmart Home Office. XD

[@dubuyajay9964]

@@skrefter They stick their thumbs in multiple pies.

[@NYCQuint]

They remain hidden because, much like the narrator of this video, most people cannot pronounce their names

[@gabebx4038]

This is THE BEST breakdown ever GI joe was way ahead of it’s time .. in music story line and characters..

[@elvistochong1701]

My favorite cartoon when I was a kid. Still have a bunch of these.

[@voudude6966]

Let's goooo this is what I've been waiting for only 119 min left

[@voudude6966]

7 min

[@rodimus7926]

18:46 Cobra Commander is Starscream

[@troyowens9734]

The same guy voiced both of them

[@HamanKarn567]

I didn't grow up in the 80s but I watched the show reruns and on DVD as a kid I. Early 2000s and my local library had the comics which I love the most. The original comics are so good.

[@ericandrew9214]

Grew up watching GI Joe. Fav cartoon and toy. Best thing was it didn't dumb things down for its target age demo.

[@bubbalocs5150]

Awesome . I love this show as a kid and had all the toys, great memories

[@rexsuarez1310]

cesspool looks more like a captain planet villain rather than g.i.joe

[@beyondeverythingspidermanm4491]

I think this channel should do a video on the GI Joe heroes and some of punisher allies.

[@edwardhayes6816]

Always loved the GI Joe series, mainly because of the look of the Cobra forces, from the very main blue troopers to the Crimson Guard

[@sci-fifantasyguy1600]

I actually like the comics by Larry Hamma better to be honest! 👍

[@vjb2377]

I had them all.

[@somepigsneverlearn]

Never saw GI Joe before. I think I just might start. Also, I know I've suggested this before, but a list of top European animations would be really cool. If not, a list of horror movies with dogs as the antagonists would be neat to see.

[@zufalllx]

Skip it. Read the Marvel comics instead

[@Rah1381]

Awesome do something on the back story of MetalAcolypse 😊😊😊

[@marinakaiser7639]

I was so small nice to learn something about the beginnings of the story. I love your channel 👍❤🥰😁

[@Mr.EmeraldTheGreen]

Awesome video!!! If you guys do a part two, I’d love to hear about Zarana and Zander, and all the Dreadknots!!

[@uncledirtnap1]

My favorite toy line growing up. I remember I saved up the points that came on the packaging. I sent them in and got Hooded Cobra Commander and Zartan with his Green bike thing, both the figure and the bike changed color. It took like 6 months for them to come through the mail and I still had the before they were released for sale. Wow what a cool nerd flex. Salute.

[@piyakhebisonii1001]

Amazing! Destro is my favorite Villain of all time! Great break down!

[@kjpphotography4764]

You should have focused on the backgrounds from just the marvel comics, because it much better then the other versions of Joe.

[@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle]

There was a video on YT many years ago where some guy dressed up as Cobra Commander and trolled bunch of protesters yelling "Hail Cobra!" and pretending that he's recruiting people to be his henchmen because he's trying to dominate the world. It was hilarious because he was speaking like Cobra Commander in cartoons (high pitch voice with stutters at "S") and people had no idea what's going on.

[@KardboardKenny]

so no one's gonna mention that this is how you do equality/diversity and inclusiveness RIGHT? it was so good that NO ONE even noticed it.

[@socialmedia4637]

Honestly it was hard to tell with all the white characters that were in the list

[@KardboardKenny]

@@socialmedia4637 apparently, you're not bright enough to understand that their list was about COBRA, not the JOES.

[@GhostRider-870]

I was WAITING for somebody to drop some SJW shit in the comments. And you didnt disappoint.

[@socialmedia4637]

@@KardboardKenny apparently YOU are not bright or literate enough, as I didn't specify one team over another. Re-read my comment and develop better reading comprehension before insulting the intelligence of others ☺️

[@megatronjenkins2473]

@@KardboardKenny he didn't mention either one, dumscheisse. It's called 'reading comprehension.'

[@ravensmadhouse75]

Remember that Golobulous and Mindbender has an unseen link that was revealed in the animated movie, where Golobulous had secretly implanted a psychic motivator with the skill and instructions in Mindbender's brain that helped him create Serpentor while Cobra-La was still in hiding, henceforth making Golobulous the true creator of Serpentor, using Mindbender to carry out the task.

[@bobbygould1960]

Thank Goodness this cartoon exist, those old memories brought back to life.

[@mcculler1]

I love it thank you

[@scotthamilton5819]

Your lack of research is astounding. Most of this stuff was created by Larry Hama who wrote the comic and the file cards. Not the TV show and movies.

[@Transfixed]

Exactly. It's disgraceful to not even mention him.

[@briancorvello3620]

5:15 Yeah, the heroes found out quickly that knocking out one of them took them both out. Doesn't seem all-too useful, IMOHO.

[@inyangudo-ema1638]

None of Sergeant slaughter's DNA got into serpentor's makeup

[@paulleyharris7851]

In the comic book it was Storm Shadow's DNA that they used instead of Sgt. Slaughter

[@archangel5627]

I always thought the back story for Serpentor was really cool. I also like how the inclusion of Serpentor caused a riff between the ranks of Cobra leading to a split in factions, one led by Cobra Commander and the other by Serpentor.

[@dubuyajay9964]

It did in the cartoon. Which you obviously never saw.

[@thetoyboxthetoybox8305]

Good video, but quite a few errors in the information being provided.

[@dlowvala1683]

Yes f****** please 🙌🙌 this channel is easily becoming one of my favorites🙆🙆

[@paulrippcord506]

Fumbles it was always Fumbles, Cobra’s greatest sniper.

[@bobagucci502]

Cobra la is what happens when you want to write H. P. Lovecraft but you got a job to write G. I. Joe.

[@dubuyajay9964]

If you listen to the writers being interviewed, most of them were against this, but forced into it by their bosses in Hasbro.

[@marcuswooldridge]

now for the G.I. Joe's please! Thank you in advance.

[@davidmartin5483]

Are you using story of Stormshadow and Snakeeyes from the original line or the animated series/cartoon, the comics or the movie?

[@tjdoescosplay]

Snake eye was a mysterious character kinda reminded me of zero from borderlands who identity is also mysterious But storm shadow is the only GI joe villain I know

[@jdsim9173]

Technically Snake eyes existed 1st, but yes

[@dzsquad1965]

Cool vid and any more Joe stuff??

[@snakewhitcher4189]

How was Cold Slithers not on the list? They were an evil rock band that used their catchy music to recruit children and young adults to enlist as Cobra soldiers. They even had a hit song and music video."🎶We're Cold Slithers, you'll be joining us soon. Just a band of vipers, playin' tune 🎶 ". I don't see how the Goofus Twins made the list, but not Cold Slithers.

[@carsenmaxwell3336]

My favorite G.I. Joe villains in order from greatest to least are Cobra Commander, Storm Shadow, The Baroness, Krake, and Destro. I think Krake is a good replacement for Cobra Commander, although I thought Baroness would’ve been a great choice for Cobra Commander.

[@montewoods7215]

I was a big Destro fan because he had the Baroness and all the cobra weapons

[@yahnatanlevi6894]

it would be cool to see serpentor and cobra la in live action one day

[@retrojoe8290]

We definitely need a new GOOD GI Joe movie!. Rob zombie as zartan doing a cold slither thing. No RockBlock, Terry Cruz as RockBlock!. I do think ol DJ would make a excellent Serpentor thou. #robjoeyo

[@manmeetsinghsekhon8649]

Thank you so much

[@danharrell2024]

Cobra Commander is my favorite. He was awesome in GI Joe: Retribution!!!

[@stephenrice2063]

You mention that Tomax and Xamot seem to be twins, hail from Corsica, and have a telepathic bond, but you never observe that they are therefore Corsican brothers. Isn't that the point of the characters?

[@Fenris77]

Great video. Cobra-La from the cartoon dud movie was an archetuypal and fitting end of that series = Silly to the max. I never learned to like the 80s cartoon as it was so ridiculous in many ways and not just the cheesy "laser-weapons" crap... I was more into the comics as those at least tried to remain serious. This cheesiness was the chief reason why G.I.Joe cartoon never had a chance against Transformers who were not affraid of doing unexpected twists.

[@noahpaulog7617]

You forgot Trouser Snake. He was mocked by the Joes, joined Cobra, then sniped all but one Joe to tell the tale.

[@Alverant]

FYI Headman is the only character to be killed in the cartoon series. Again, it was to convey how dangerous drugs were.

[@onespeed4ever901]

Okay I'm subscribed

[@new2vero2]

Since I’ve been covering GIJOE comics on my channel.. Hama has actually added ALOT more to back stories.

[@kenrunkle2036]

Not added, changed. Screwed up twisted and completely turned around. It just makes no sense .

[@new2vero2]

@@kenrunkle2036 What you wrote is disrespectful to me. While I am respectful on your FB page. Im gonna say this nicely Ken #1 you did not create or have any stake in GIJoe ownership nor have you contributed to the community/fandom as much as say Carson from 3DJoes has. Last time I was at JoeFest or JoeCon (when it existed) I did not see or hear panels in which you where a key note speaker. I didnt see Kirk or Ron, proclaim you an authority on Hasbro Property. After speaking with Hama and the IDW GIJoe none of the know who Ken is nor to they care to conform to what his vision is sorry to tell you. It seems your anger over the very thing your a fan off seems odd, after all this is fiction. I do not think you've even read the entire IDW Run maybe just heard a few things and disagreed with them because YOU feel thats not how it should be according to Ken. IF you do thats fine thats your right but undermining MY comment when ive been respectful on your FB group is disrespecting me

[@timwhite5562]

When i think if the toy lines when i was a kid; Star Wars, Masters of the Universe, Transformers, Thundercats, MASK, Silver Hawks (i think that was one) and GI Joe! GI Joe was the one i was into the longest. I think it mostly came down to the articulation of the arms and legs. I could have fun just playing with 1 character. I'd play with him scaling the side of the dresser or bed post, like a gymnast if they could actually flip 60' to the ground and not be killed. Nemesis Enforcer was probably the coolest bad guy buy when i was a kid. I think i remember that those blades that come off his forearms could grown longer (but i might be confusing him with some other toy). The figured were DEFINITELY a step up from the Kenner Star wars characters. Their arms and legs were just on a single hinge, with no way to bend the elbow and knee. I think at least 95% of kids at least once foolishly unhooked the rubber band that connected the legs to the torso which was all but impossible to put back (at least for a 9 year old). I don't have kids, do they even play with toys anymore when they are over 6 or 7 years old? They may, but anytime i ever see them they're on tablets or playing video games. I discovered music pretty young, 10-11 years old. When i bought MY first album with my own money (i used to lie and say it was Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden, but it was really Cinderella; we were far crueller to each other than they seem now, and anything could be a cause for ridicule), toys only had about a year to hold my attention. Kids used to play with action figures and other toys to much older ages than they did to generations after me. It wasn't uncommon for 12 and 13 year olds to still have toys, that seems way too old now. Starting with my 11th birthday they closest thing to a toy i would have wanted as presents were Nintendo cartridges (and strong lungs to blow into them when they stopped playing rightly after 2 months) and maybe a Super-soaker when they first came out.

[@greglane334]

We never got the series in my country but I got a vhs of one of the movies from our rental shop and it blew my mind. For a cartoon made to sell toys it had a surprisingly mature story

[@Mysmero425]

Cobra Commander sounded better voiced by Chris Latta R.I.P

[@sebastianrook5478]

Now I know... And knowing is half the battle.

[@ginger00022]

I enjoy this video.

[@McMahonHater]

The Rock was in the movie, but not Sgt Slaughter who was an actual character in the GI Joe animated movie.

[@craigpinkerton2314]

Sgt. Slaughter was also a pro-westler from the 70s and 80s.

[@fifedogg511]

@@craigpinkerton2314 they created the gi Joe sgt slaughter after the wrestler

[@McMahonHater]

@@craigpinkerton2314 Yeah I know.

[@ericandrew9214]

My heels always won in my GI Joe toy battles. My Cobra roster was stacked. Original Serpentor, hooded Cobra Commander, Baroness, Globulus, Nemesis Enforcer, a few BATS, Dr Mindbender, Zarana, Storm Shadow. My faces were good, but couldn't compete. Roadblock, Quick Kick, Dusty, Lifeline, Lift Ticket, Alpine, Beach Head (my boy). Had a bunch but can't remember them all. Lost my original Snake Eyes in a movie theater. Lol

[@beaupierrebondurant5651]

Destro...the smoothest villain ever.

[@kaletovhangar]

The best villain in the franchise. Has charisma, strength, voice, despises his inept allies, admires his opponents from Joe, and got that Rizz. What's not to like?

[@jamiejodoin1540]

Great video, mis pronounce some of the names but other that great.

[@Purplegorillaz]

After watching this I feel like watching all the GI Joe episodes.

[@demetriusharris9938]

The twins are Corsican Twins that's why when one felt pain the other felt it

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

And literally from Corsica.

[@synexthebarbarian8006]

Nemesis Enforcer!! Cobra La should have a movie of it's own. Animated by the way

[@roguedexx938]

Nice!!

[@terminator1567]

Too bad there haven’t been any more. G.i. Joe shows.

[@user-st2oj5ic7u]

There's been 5 different shows

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

My favorites were Cobra Commander, Destro, Major Blood, Storm Shadow & Firefly. Those along with about 10 Cobra Troopers were my bad guy army. My good guys were Recondo, Airborne, Spirit, Roadblock, Gung Ho, SEAL, HALO & Duke.

[@asdf9890]

The Zartan toy was so cool, I had that one. It changed colors in the light. I find the Baroness figure hilarious. Wonder how many kids got that expecting a beautiful femme fatale, but they got something that seems to have inspired the cartoon character Daria. 🤣

[@The-Artless-Gallery]

Me and my lil bro would watch this and other shows after school. Good times

[@dfailsthemost]

I liked Zartan when I was a kid. Great bad guy.

[@ArcTrooper269]

SO MANY STORY POTENTIAL YET HASBRO HAS NEVER ADVENTURE TO CONCLUDE ANYONE ¿Why Hasbro refuse to make a G.i. Joe product with a proper conclusion?

[@manmeetsinghsekhon8649]

We definitely have some sorta telepathic connection. I wanted to watch such kinda video.

[@dsanchez9703]

Thanks for this video im a big fan of gijoe, and most of da gijoe badguys are psychotic😬

[@ThatGuyStephen-zx7pc]

Have you guys ever noticed how destructive Gi joe really is lol they cost a lot of property damage I love it

[@bisquit48]

😅

[@robertlogan5354]

why did it take til serpentor, two-thirds of the way through the video, to point out the different stories between different media?

[@bishop31656]

im proud to say i had all these GIJoes as a kid now only if i was smart enough to keep them.....

[@madhavmandava]

just glad u didnt show a certain scene of what sepentor does though both tv and comics would have shown how crazy strong he was