#177

This week Moshe and Natasha discuss Bernie Baes, getting massages at home, and tipping etiquette. They give advice to one caller who wants to spend time on his many hobbies without neglecting his partner and another whose partner doesn’t seem to enjoy his work as an actor as much as his side interests.
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[@angelaboysoprano]

I met my massage therapist in a salon, she then moved to start her own business. When she started her own place (just a one woman operation) she said I needn't tip anymore. She was setting the rates and was then essentially earning the whole amount, instead of living on a daily/hourly wage surviving on tips.

[@caarrdd]

I'm with Moshe on this one. Someone self-employed should be charging an appropriate rate and not expecting a tip. Just like a plumber. If they are working for a service then sure, a tip makes sense. Love your wardrobe this episode, particularly the sunglasses/colour co-ordination. And I still like Moshe's mou.

[@Naejakire3]

Agreed. They're self employed. They can make their own rates

[@bravojeark]

Moshe is right on this. If the owner-operator needs and expects the tip, that should be folded into the standard rate. Typically a tip is meant to help someone you know is underpaid who can't easily change that which in this case they can.

[@LeslieDugger]

Exactly!’ Otherwise you might as well start tipping cashiers

[@ccccc7848]

No, you need to tip.

[@fomes]

@@ccccc7848great argument lol

[@Eggolas]

ngl, moshe is totally in the right regarding the tipping conversation

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

This time, I actually side with Moshe. When people work for themselves, they sometimes add the tip (it's more expensive for that reason-they usually include the tip). You can always ask.

[@ccccc7848]

No, you gotta tip.

[@carolyntalbot947]

Yes! Just ask!

[@edmonallen8740]

I'm with Moshe. His logic is correct. If the service provider takes 100% of the set rate, no tip. Hair dressers usually rent a station and don't set the price of services. I wouldn't tip the barber if they came to my house and set the rate.

[@jordantucker7269]

My thinking is, you tip for services that qualify as goods or are optional. You wouldn't tip a plumber or a doctor for that matter because those services are required. Since those services are required, the plumbers and doctors can more effectively set their own prices. They have the leverage with price points. Optional services like massages, haircuts, maids, servers, etc don't have the same kind of leverage to set the price at an adequate place.

[@carolyntalbot947]

That's a good rule of thumb 👍

[@rorschachacha]

I’m a self employed personal trainer, I know many massage therapists operating independently, and while they of course get tipped more often, we all concur that tips are not expected because we get to set our rates appropriately for our own businesses.

[@natduarte8]

Tips are great, but I see your point, Moshe. I guess when the person can choose the value they want to recieve it is ok to just give them that. I am a holistic therapist (not a massage), and I do not expect people to pay me more than what I ask for.

[@elizabethmcirvin]

as a massage therapist, the first ten minutes is a very interesting conversation to listen to. most of the time we are taken advantage of by spas or apps, they take a large portion of what we make, paid way lower than what we are worth. the tip, more times than not, makes it worth it to do it. thanks for tipping well natasha! As for if a massage therapist is massaging someone privately, even if they receive all the money, natasha is again correct, it is normal to tip still. most of the time, as massage therapists, we don't even make a "living wage" which is around 60,000 dollars a year. We take private clients to make rent. So yeah, if you could tip 20% percent moshe that'd be great :)

[@clevermissfox]

20% is the MINIMUM, its not really not even enough anymore. Should be more. Esp when someone goes above and beyond or is giving so much of their energy and effort like massage. I don't think 30% is too much. Owner of a small biz yes you tip, obv not Mark Zuckerberg. And you should tip your contractors/handyman/construction workers/plumbers

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

@@clevermissfox I'm all for tipping, but the rest of us haven't received raises either and no one tips us. Some services industries make more than I do. 20% is a lot. Plumbers make more than I do (I have a master's degree in a health science) and they are in control of their own rate. They don't need tips 😂. You are paying someone's taxes for them when you tip 30%. I have to pay my own. But, yes tip servers and people who don't make a lot. Again, I'm not tipping a plumber . . .come on. Do you tip your mailperson? They make much less than the plumber.

[@jacobdane]

@@clevermissfox Tip a plumber? You're out of your mind

[@bryanminugh9680]

Well, that can't be your >ONLY> source of income, if you live in N. America

[@bravojeark]

Raise your rates to include the 20% and advertise the no tip expectation

[@andoros.7017]

unlike the toothbrush fiasco and jacuzzi-gate, i think Moshe is moreso in the clear on this one...

[@tacbuttenfart2248]

I'm a massage therapist that does mobile massage on the side. I also have many friends that own their own massage business and we all add the tip into our price so you dont have to tip. I always inform a new client ahead of time that I have already added the tip into the price. That being said I'm not gonna turn down a tip if they still offer. And when I work for someone you definitely need to tip 20%.

[@NaAa-lc5lm]

Lmfao when she blurted “THEN HE GOT THE OFFICE”

[@graybabyoracle]

I always tip because this is the culture we live in, but I do think it's something we need to get away from. People shouldn't have to rely on inconsistent levels of generosity to make their living. And I totally get Moshe's point about owner vs normal worker. It's not something that has come up in my own life, but knowing me, I would err on the side of tipping even though I think Moshe's right.

[@ersimn]

Me, not an American, grabbing popcorn to watch the tipping discussion

[@davidadams2395]

Where do you reside, and how is tipping for the service industry handled there? I know staff are paid better in Europe, but I'm sure a gratuity would be welcome if the service was exceptional, or is that the American in me speaking?

[@LeslieDugger]

@@davidadams2395 here’s an example… I’ve been to Norway a few times and over there tipping is ok for exceptional service at a restaurant, but it is not required, at all. Just be prepared for a few (definitely not most) lackluster waiters in Europe to expect a tip from you just because you are American and don’t understand the rules. Easy to ignore. Googling tipping practices by country is your best friend when traveling. Don’t feel pressure to tip… especially for mediocre service

[@mjoyyourself]

Classism & capitalism got us fucked up over here

[@madlyrosett]

Being the sole proprietor of a house call massage business can even be more expensive and time consuming than working for an app that does all the extra work for you. Unless they say that the tip is already included in the pricing, just tip them. I am a house call massage therapist and it’s a lot of work! Massage therapists can realistically only work about 25 paid hours a week if they don’t want to get burnt out or injured, and that doesn’t count all the time I spend doing laundry, scheduling/booking people, and paying for a website and supplies. Also, you make so much more money than a massage therapist does, moshe 😂 try giving someone a deep tissue 90 minute massage and then ask yourself if you should tip.

[@madlyrosett]

I used to make my pricing super affordable (tip not included, but I would verbally specify that tipping was appreciated) in hopes that I could make house call massage more affordable for people who normally couldn’t get one. I wouldn’t even mind if someone only tipped 10% -the tip would just tell me they appreciated my hard work. But then I started getting a bunch of super rich assholes taking advantage of how cheap my massage was and not tipping at all, so I started losing money. Now I make the tip included in the pricing because of people like you Moshe 😂 Though there is still the occasional client who loves my work so much that they tip me extra, because they can afford to. That always feels nice.

[@madlyrosett]

Lol I got a little passionate about this

[@erintheokay]

It's customary not to tip the proprietor of an establishment. For instance, one of my favorite local restaurants is small and is run by a guy who refuses tips, even though he often acts as a server. However, my hair stylist owns her small salon and I tip her (she doesn't ask - she's just awesome and I want to tip her). My husband and I have a handyman who's built a deck for us and repaired a roof. He is a one-man business and we tip him each time. So it depends on the situation for me. P.S. I own my own web design business. It's me and one other person here. I would never expect a tip.

[@angiesunnie8469]

I agree it is confusing to tip or not. I probably would have tipped the massage therapist. But I don't tip a behavior therapist. 🤔

[@ahoytherekaty]

This is the most interesting Lakeland has ever seemed. I liked his question! It can be hard to find time to spend with your spouse when you both have many different types of hobbies.

[@travisedson4101]

Team Moshe on this.

[@MAGICCOFFEY]

i love the argument over tipping 😆 and i agree with mosha.

[@lucygreenbaum71]

I'm with Tash (admittedly, as usual) and have a sort of similar experience to Moshe: massage therapist I met through a "corporation" massage place went solo/housecalls. But I continued to tip him 20% as I normally did UNTIL he raised his rates and let me know that he was not expecting a tip because of this. What a guy, wish everyone was that transparent with it.

[@_baert]

As much as I hate to agree with Moshe, he's right in this instance. If it's someone's own business then they get 100% of the rate that they themselves chose to charge, so you don't need to tip on top.

[@clevermissfox]

I tip my handy man, my yard guy, if I pick up a food order, baristas, masseuses. 20% is standard but if ppl work hard and give quality service/do quality work, more.

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

Well, you are obviously rich for having all those services. We are also talking about us who aren't rich and just need a service. 20% is the max for me. I can't afford more. I would like people to start tipping healthcare workers (not doctors or nurses since they make the most already and often are paid well). Tip lab workers. We do all your tests so you can go to the spa, etc. You said you want to give 30%? Okay, if you bill for lab work was 100, please pay us 30 every time. Thanks!🤓

[@clevermissfox]

@@JDMimeTHEFIRST hah I'm def not rich or even middle class. Ive jist always worked service jobs and think tipping well is very important. If you don't have money to tip you don't have money for that meal.

[@iamnearnothing]

20% covers expenses or tipping out that goes with services. Waiters/resses have to tip bussers & bartenders out. At home massage covers gas, lotion, oil, their spotify maybe.

[@carolyntalbot947]

@dliguori25 I believe that servers you worked with weren't particularly generous with you.

[@volleeballbb]

Feelin Moshe’s look!

[@macadoodle100]

I was taught tipping was for good service provided not as a requirement to anyone.

[@aubz724]

That's bull shit. It is always 20% more if it is good service. Servers live off tips.

[@Naejakire3]

I think it started that way, but then capitalism and greedy business owners began to pay their employees less based off the fact that they will "earn tips".. So now it's like some requirement instead of the shitty owner just raising their wages so tips aren't needed.

[@mollyannejacobs]

Fact: We wouldn't have to tip anyone if corporations paid their employees a livable wage. (A livable wage is whatever your rent is multiplied by 3.)

[@TheAngieRash]

Yep, always 20%

[@chaselacy]

Yall definitely win cutest funniest couple of my lifetime

[@Skippertharipper]

Both of my parents moved to Hollywood to make it big. All they got was me 💅

[@Elkator]

You always tip a massage therapist.

[@camhabibi2217]

Here's a question for ya: do you tip the employee at the bowling alley who gets your bowling shoes and assigns your lane? What about if you also buy two water bottles? Tipping expected?

[@auroraborealis13579]

I’m a Licensed Massage Therapist. I charge anywhere from $80-$100 for what ends up being an hour and 20 minute massage. I find most people tip. And I appreciate that. People who work for themselves still have to buy insurance. And cover travel expenses. You have to consider the time it takes to bring the table and set it up at your house. Also, the laundry I do after every massage. If someone didn’t tip me, I probably would not re-book them. Unless we were doing a trade of some kind. I’ve had my hair done. I’ve gotten handmade jewelry, etc.

[@fomes]

Then why don’t you consider all those things you mentioned when you set your rate? That’s how owning a business works.

[@bubabina_rRr]

Moshe is right.

[@NaAa-lc5lm]

Ya know I’m not sure on the tipping after hearing the plumber thing. But I always tip when unsure

[@Pandi-Fackler]

Moshe, you’ve just gotta tip dude. No matter what. As someone who’s mother owns her own business, I know she has to pay for practically every expense out of pocket and shit gets expensive fast. Oftentimes, to the point where she finds herself not really making profit but barely breaking even. And a majority of the time, the owners of these small business are the sole workers as well so no, giving a 20% tip to your local, independent business owner for providing you a service (like massage therapy, hair cuts/styling, mani/pedi’s, what have you) is not the same as giving money to Jeff Bezos or whatever. It’s just what you’ve gotta do

[@baugheyes]

It is bad etiquette to tip the owner of a business. So if it is a sole proprietorship you should never tip that person. Mosha is 100% right, have to give that man the win. 🎉

[@j-brain]

Tipping is a regional/cultural phenomenon. Some countries, European and South American don't practice this custom at all. Why? is it that they earn an appropriate wage? Some parts of America are more inclined to tip better than others in my experience (coasts vs midwest). In a more just scenario, I believe tipping should not be a common practice. A proper wage should be the norm and then if someone goes above and beyond and a customer feels so inclined then by all means, but workers should not have to rely upon the generosity of the common person for income. wages should cover that. that's my opinion. I feel we are letting businesses off the hook and allowing them to take advantage of employees. I have worked in services such as waiter, bartender, musician/busker, as well as my current status as an hourly full-time employee with no tip opportunity. I prefer the assurance of a consistent paycheck. As well as a customer, I want the sticker price to reflect my final bill. it feels a bit like a bate and switch to see the price on the menu but there's a hidden tip fee. If tipping should always be 20% then it sounds like it's not a choice or opinion, so just make it part of the price and pay the servicers better.

[@mangowashington]

damn, i hate it when mom & dad fight 🤭

[@aellerhorst95]

Just came here to say my husband does HVAC work and if he's doing a job for his company and the place is really happy they will tip him. If he's doing side work he charges a flat rate and they don't tip because it's 100% profit.

[@EVEmasta]

Someone who does business by themselves and charge decently for the service that they do, I don’t tip. Cause imagine someone having a 100 clients within the couple months and that alone all the money goes to him

[@rokeeffe91]

I'm enjoying your guys' looks lately

[@racheller8753]

You always tip!!! ALWAYS!!

[@meels163]

Yes always tip 20% for hair cuts, massages!!!

[@oldtanellesses]

Moshe is right. If they work for themselves and they set the price, you don't tip. If they have expenses and bills, then they need to set their price accordingly. If they work within a company structure that takes a cut, then you tip.

[@Kitty6161]

Omg first caller... are you Tim Segura?! Hahah sidenote. Would love to hear Moshe and Tash's opinion on tipping the house cleaner. I clean for a living and people love to tell us we aren't a service but uhmmm... yeah we are! We also don't make a whole lot! Tip your cleaners people! Please! We pick up your dirty underwear and scrub your gross toilets!!

[@lukewilson6132]

No I’m not but I’ll take that as a compliment

[@Zlatan32289]

Moshe haaaaaaaaates loosing arguments 🤣

[@carolyntalbot947]

I think the consensus is with Moshe?

[@heatherm2542]

Cute, I think this is Moshe's favorite shirt 👕

[@Thelustral909]

Moshe -- Where can I hear one of your DJ sets? I love Disco House!

[@Pandi-Fackler]

I think he has a mixtape available (or soon to be available) on Patreon for certain tiers

[@mangowashington]

and for the record 20% tip for service workers is great, do it if you can, good karma

[@robertmiller4264]

Moshe is right on this. Moshe "if its through a corp. then you should tip 30% because they are taking more from that person" Natasha "that's not your problem" Uhh the idea of tipping is that you're making their pay YOUR problem lol And if your stance is that you should tip for services then tip the handyman and plumber. Plenty of people do.

[@BriJo91]

No idea why I got hyper-focused on this, but it seems that the times both Moshe and Natasha used the word "like", is up substantially 😅🥴

[@mdwsb]

Natasha: Don't forget to tip your landlord. He's got a lot of expenses.

[@jacquigonzalez5447]

I’ve always tipoed less if it’s a business owner. Never really thought about this… waiters make two bucks an hour in some states, no owns a restaurant to make two bucks an hour, they might be maki g millions. Looking forward to the answers. That’s just his my parents rolled and I took it for granted. I’m a big tipper at restaurants and top house keepers, valets… but usually tip 10% to a my hairdresser… which is still $30 and they just picketed $300 for two hours work…

[@yasminsparrow695]

you should always tip in cash too, otherwise the government taxes the tippee on that too! And you should tip if whatever service you receive, you feel went above and beyond your normal expectations of the service you received. Like getting a great haircut, winning at blackjack, etc!

[@FrauWehner]

*Ovid was a Roman writer. not Greek.

[@laketac]

They both have points on tipping. It IS a bit confusing. There are people you typically tip & people you dont, but what's the distinction?🤔

[@noreenvasquez6617]

Mosha is so funny in this episode 🤣🤣🤣

[@desi4227]

If I walk in and you simply grab my order from behind you and then ring the sale. No tip. Otherwise All services 15% or better.

[@JenisELMAN]

You guys are so cute....and talented & intelligent That's all

[@For_The_Watch]

People like Tasha are ruining our gig economy. I don’t tip for takeout. Never have, never will, the reason I’m doing take out is to save money. I should tip you for writing my order down/putting it in a bag? So where does that stop? Should we also be tipping grocery baggers? The person who returns carts? Lawyers perform a service, should we be tipping them? Lifeguards? What about gardeners? It’s to the point now where you’re rude if you DONT tip for jobs that were never tip based before. We shouldn’t have to supplement wages when business owners already pass every other cost onto us.

[@iFish12]

I never thought about tipping culture in a context of who you work for. This is gonna start a lot of fights in my life.

[@timpeddycord7220]

Moshe is completely right on the tipping, Natasha is the reason why you can’t walk into anywhere without being asked for a tip now

[@Ci-D3]

Love you guys!

[@winter83]

You dont tip the plumber because they are making 30+ an hour. The Massage Therapist is not making that much even if they are a sole proprietor.

[@annahlavoie]

I’m with Natasha on the tipping scandal ..so sorry my dude

[@wagane1]

Definitely tip plumbers and other tradesmen.

[@rachelmesseroff4456]

I myself also tip 20% to my A/C person, the carpet and floor cleaners & the handy person

[@zacharycohen89]

Sorry Moshe, I think I’m on Natasha’s side here. And I mean look at my name here. We gotta represent the tribe well. That said, I do hear you on how it can be awkward when it’s the sole proprietor. Like the person who cuts my hair owns the place. I still tip her but I do feel like it’s one of the more awkward parts of the transaction. Edit: ok Natasha you definitely should tip the plumber… Edit 2: you should also tip the handyman

[@clevermissfox]

Thank youuuu! I'm getting lit up about tipping plumber or handyman

[@worldsbiggesttruck]

I’m kinda with moshe here tbh. And I do contract shade installs in peoples houses. We agree on the price. Don’t really see how it’s much different than a massage person. I mean hell if you tip I remember that and ur gonna get crazy good service next time (never do bad on purpose) but I appreciate it and wish more people did on jobs that are strenuous lol. But I don’t expect it.

[@johnhansenbristow2900]

Thank Christ I don’t tip.

[@natalieevenew]

Yes Moshe.. you always tip bruh. This is sad.

[@natalieevenew]

Had to fast forward 10 min

[@bravojeark]

Why doesn't the owner/operator just raise their rates? You missed the actual argument.

[@ccccc7848]

Moshe is wrong. You tip to show your appreciation. I suppose if you never want them to come back, don’t tip.

[@figgettit]

this comes down to piece wages v hourly wages. marx solved it. but maybe you need to leave the country to find a copy. lol

[@auroraborealis13579]

😂😂😂

[@NWORB_21]

Would you not tip the owner of a tattoo shop if they were the one to give you a tattoo?

[@LeslieDugger]

You don’t need to tip an independent service because they get 100% of the money. The price is the price. It can actually be considered ALL tip really. Moshe is entirely correct here. Maybe my coworkers should start tipping me when I help them with a project. Tip the Home Depot cashier while at it. Tipping culture is toxic. Btw… not tipping a plumber but tipping a hairdresser is absolute horseshit. It’s pretty funny Moshe thinks he is going to get heat for this when Natasha’s take on tipping is inconsistent and absolutely bananas. Should us viewers tip your podcast? Don’t answer that.

[@mindymmk]

Team Moshe (sort of) I'm from Europe, never been to America and this tipping tradition in USA (except from very badly paid personnel) seems absurd. I would tip an owner if 1) they're financially struggling or 2) my salary is at least a 5 times larger or 3) they did such an amazing job for a small amount of money that it deserves to be paid more or 4) they went out of their way to do something extra I wanted but didn't ask. Otherwise, I don't understand why one would tip a self-employed and well-paid massage therapist but not a cashier, a school teacher, a plumber, a gardener, a baby sitter. Where's the logica in that?

[@LeslieDugger]

Trust me.. Many Americans find tipping absurd as well. It’s just impossible to not tip in certain situations without looking like absolute trash. The whole thing is toxic and I am glad to see some restaurants banning it in favor of paying their staff well

[@mangowashington]

IN REGARDS TO THE FIRST CALLER; Read The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield, read it for real, then do what the author says. period

[@lukewilson6132]

Thanks for the recommendation

[@mangowashington]

@@lukewilson6132 you got it! im so glad you called in! you brought something that i think lots of folks should pick their mind on! wishing you all the best you got this

[@MrChinchinola]

being a chef is not a chill life

[@mdwsb]

Paul Harvey: A young man... Paul Harvey's Wife Natasha from the next room: It was Jesus.

[@Fernandoza]

Here's a tricky one, do y'all tip health care providers? isn't a service?

[@carolyntalbot947]

If Natasha only tips servers 20% she is not following the standard (which is 30%.) If Moshe is not tipping his massage therapist he probably should be, but not at the same rate as he would if he/she was not the business owner. If she is a friend and is making housecalls I would tip something, anyway. It is not a priority like it is to tip someone working for low hourly wages though.

[@neonpeach3]

As a hairdresser, some jobs should be tipped because we are THERAPISTS. No one tips a plumber because they aren't crying to them about having to listen to someone being completely u sufferable about extremely petty shit. Lolol

[@neonpeach3]

Massage handles energy transfer so thry deserve a tip. Eyelashes, tattoos, nails listen to your problems. Also, handiwork is bare minimum double the amount any service above would charge.

[@jay-rene992]

DO tip your handyman(s)!!

[@racheller8753]

The owner probably has even more bills they're having to pay extra insurance they have to pay taxes for their business so you probably want to tip them more!!

[@michaelmitchell6558]

Does the level of service not matter? I thought Tipping was only mandatory for jobs that were paid less because it's expected like waitress and bellm. Everything else is you tip based off level of service? I thought that was point or else people give you shitty service snd you still give them 20%?

[@BradfordLynn]

Not sure where I stand on the issue but Moshe is so condescending I want to be on Natasha’s side haha

[@janerock2718]

Just tip everybody. Be generous. My mom actually tips handymen.

[@rvbball1]

The way Moshe argues is actually really annoying lol. "O to every interaction you ever do you tip 20%?" Obviously not what she was saying at all.

[@michaelmitchell6558]

I get Tosh point but I would tip anyone who has to touch my feet

[@edmonallen8740]

Also Natasha clearly doesn't understand the term late stage capitalism, but that is far too deep for the comments.

[@mathuwhycough6591]

House call services like massage therapists and handymen could be basing their rates on market prices which aren’t usually enough so I say tipping is a reasonable gesture.

[@desi4227]

Unless the service sucks! You shouldn’t have to pay extra for a terrible experience and they should know better if they count on tips. Never encourage crappy service and a always treat people with respect🤗

[@aubz724]

I do 20% unless 20% isn't 20 bucks then at least given them a 20.

[@stalkingpedrochannel]

In Gilmore Girls, Luke tells Lorelai that you never have to tip the proprietor of the business.

[@Pandi-Fackler]

It’s different when the owner is also the main/sole worker for the business

[@stalkingpedrochannel]

@@Pandi-Fackler why tho. They get to set their own prices and keep all the profit

[@Pandi-Fackler]

@@stalkingpedrochannel Because, if they’re the person who’s also providing the service, they need it. It’s incredibly hard to stay afloat let alone break even as an independent business’s owner and in the service industry especially, you can raise your prices yes but a tip would still be something that’s needed to even begin to cover your expenses (ie insurance, supplies, gas, you name it)

[@Pandi-Fackler]

@@stalkingpedrochannel My mother owns her own business (not in the service industry tho, so tipping isn’t a factor) and a majority of the time, no matter what she sets her prices to, there’s not much profit to be kept that doesn’t immediately have to go back into the shop. And it’s the same, if not worse if you’re someone like a massage therapist, hairdresser, or anyone who provides a service like that

[@Naejakire3]

@@Pandi-Fackler then they need to increase the cost. Most all self employed people set their rates so they don't need tips.

[@rvbball1]

Second girl with acting boyfriend, just show him this podcast.

[@CupofCloud]

im a right-wing capitalist and still always enjoy what you have to say

[@noahdyedotcom]

First caller just wanted 15 minutes of fame. Not a real problem dude.

[@a.b3748]

This is a weird rich person flex to say ALWAYS 20%

[@aubz724]

No it is a kind person standard

[@ccccc7848]

Poor people usually tip better because they know what it is to work for tips.