1966 GTO 389 on the DYNO - Pontiac Points Problems

[@nickpanaritis4122]

On the Edelbrock Carb the choke is fully open. It seems slightly cloesed on video.

[@NicksGarage]

We have a new camera bracket on the way. It should help us line the lens up directly over the carb, so that we don't have this issue in the future.

[@LunarOutlawsGarage]

Is it an edelbrock carburetor or is it the original Carter AFB? Some reason I thought it was the original AFB.

[@LunarOutlawsGarage]

Lol just got the the edelbrock part never mind 🤣🤙

[@sjd7188]

@@LunarOutlawsGarage it is the original carter afb there is a air bypass screw between the two idle mixture screws

[@edwinyoung2719]

Ya know there is such thing as a Carter quadrajet …was wondering if this was one

[@timbutler8316]

Car arrived safe and sound Nick! I have to thank Harry and Thorsons Enclosed Vehicle Transport for getting the Roadrunner home safely.

[@NicksGarage]

Fantastic!

[@brownwrench]

Lucky SOB!! 🙂

[@tobywilliamson5213]

Beautiful car have fun

[@louiskats5116]

Enjoy & drive it like you stole it 👍 Cheers Louis 👍

[@throttlebottle5906]

enough $$$$ and the proper shipper will be careful as heck-all. also luck of nature, as it can ruin the best things in an instant!

[@tomlarsen8307]

Nick , nice job on the “66 GTO. I worked on my 65 GTO from 1966 to 1980, including an engine rebuild I did myself. When you asked what’s the dwell on the points, I yelled out, “30” from Sunnyvale, CA, otherwise known as Silicon Valley‼️ I still have my dwell meter. I used it on all my hot rods. Thanks again for the great video . I too have gone in circles changing out old points, and installing new points that wouldn’t work. Drove me crazy. I hope to visit your shop someday . Keep up the great work. Thanks, Tom

[@eugenecastles7475]

I really enjoyed watching this video, the old 389 acting cranky for Nick. I've worked on a few GTO's over the years, and sometimes they have done the same to me. It was a pleasure watching Nick sort out the issues, and finally get the engine running smoothly, and making some decent HP, with a basically stock setup. Back in the day I used to carry some matchbooks around with me, and also a nail file, that I could use in an emergency to gap, and file my points. The matchbook cover was about .017 which would put me in the ballpark on the dwell setting until I could put in a new set of points, and set the dwell with my meter. That little trick saved quite a few times when the points would fail, and leave you on the side of the road. George, this video was simply amazing, the music, production, and editing were all first class! I have watched a lot of videos on KZbin, and nobody even come close to the quality of the videos on Nick's Garage

[@robertriddle7905]

I had three got.did like you did with a match box and a nail file worked pretty good one of them had a dual points what a night mare worked when you could get them set thanks for your comment

[@tomrubino7009]

.17 works on 6 cylinder motors not on gm v8s ......28-32

[@tommysts1920]

Yep! I too put many a set of points in the old goats. I made a lot of money tuning new goats for my buddies as work who ran them hard. My old 390 Mercury Cyclone would do circles around the old goats. They were good cars though and we all have a spot for them in our hearts. Thanks, Nick for bringing back old memories.

[@tommysts1920]

PS the first Electronic ignitions didn't work well either. They got hot and you were walking. Used to tell my customers to pour water on the brain box and if they had none just pee on the dam thing. 9 outa of 10 times it got them in without a wrecker.

[@giles-df9yu]

Lost count of the number of points I gaped with a match book and my bet is Nick has done the same. I had a friend back in the day that had a Bonneville 2+2 that would pull the wheels off the ground in second with a 389.

[@iSpike]

Nice. I own a 1969 Pontiac GP 455 Stroker (RHD) DownnUnder in Western Australia and DIG the hell out of it. Thanks for sharing your passion and workplace. A good setup you got there. Cool.

[@douglasb9105]

I remember monkeying around with points just like that, only the engine was IN THE CAR. Now THAT was a pain in the😡😡😡. Aahhh, to be young again...

[@bluecollar58]

Depends on where the distributor was ,

[@williamjones4483]

The nice thing about GM cars was that you could adjust the points with the engine running. Just roughly set them and connect a dwell meter and adjust them.

[@CrazyPetez]

With the GM window distributors it wasn’t too bad if you had a dwell meter. Open the window, put an Allen wrench in the bolt on the points base, and adjust the dwell.

[@williamjones4483]

@@CrazyPetez That's it. Sure beat the crap out of trying to get them set right with a feeler gauge. Dwell meters weren't too expensive in those days. I think every shade tree mechanic had one. I had an Allen wrench that was on a spring with a screwdriver type handle.

[@BobJones-fc3ef]

@@williamjones4483 I never used a feeler gauge, teacher in voc. tech. school showed us how you could use a matchbook cover to gap the points. With the added advantage of cleaning any contaminant oil like you find on feeler gauges off the contacts!

[@dancripe9224]

The 1966 GTO 389 was nice street engine.They respond well to ignition timing mods(Royal Bobcats distributor weights with lighten springs for quicker advancing of timing). Factory compression ratios were 10.75 to 1. Pontiacs always ran hot ! I had a 1966 GTO 4 speed and enjoyed it !

[@spudthompson1414]

What was the problem with the ignition the protronicks points elements points!

[@fuuuuu666]

I had a 66 GTO 389 posi traction rear end Hurst four-speed shifter beautiful looking car nice lines for its day always ran hot always had a problem with the ignition ! Points what a crap invention that was today's a new day new technology get rid of the points !!! Go have some fun ! Hey GOAT hold it !! 😂

[@ricksmith4736]

They were a great street engine due to the low revving torque they developed.

[@davelowets]

Hmm, I never had an issue with any of my 400 Pontiacs running hot... 🤷🏻

[@davelowets]

​@@fuuuuu666 For a correct car show car, the points are a requirement.

[@OlSgtLove]

Nick, love everything you do on your channel !!!!!! Not many Old School Guys like you around . I'm an ol Tin Indian Fan ,and love watching the ol Pontiac come to life.....I'm an ol 1970 GTO owner in my younger days ....brings back alots of memories.....Keep' em Running Nick ...God Bless You....

[@rodneyf.9595]

Good morning Nick , good ole points , people ask me if I remember using a dwell meter and I just smile and say it's been awhile . Since i work on all year models I still keep the knowledge lol on the older setups. Using the petronix point replacement is great , I have used them on an old Farmall tractor. Thank you for working as hard as you do to bring us such a great video. Take care and keep a thrashing . 👍

[@richb4099]

I had a '67 GTO.....400 with a Q-Jet and Turbo 400 Trans. Hurst Dual Gate shifter. It was pretty fast. Had many options....A/C power everything and front disc brakes. I can only wish I had it today. Sold it for about $1000 back in the early 1970's.......!!!! Today that car could be worth 50K or more I think ! One reason I sold it was it had a bad oil leak from the rope seal. I pulled the engine and replaced the seal and the cam and lifters. Had many little problems with the car that made me want to sell it. Like I said I wish I had it today and I'd fix whatever problems it had...P.S. there is a neoprene seal available for them to get away from the rope I believe.....

[@d.davis2009]

Had a 73 catalina with a 400 that used to eat points. Kept a spare pre-set uni-sets in the glove compartment with a flashlight and some tools. Have the girlfriend hold the light. Great vid. Took me back to the old days. I guess us old guys remember some of this old tech. Thanks

[@donlemme898]

I was ready to throw a wrench in your honor Nick. It actually helps me when you encounter a PITA job. But you never give up! As I said last week…”One week closer to vacation!” Hope you all have a good week.

[@brownwrench]

Fling a 15/16 like in Ford vs Ferrari

[@ericheine2414]

This was a really great episode Nick. Because there are days like those. When I was a kid they had a Sun distributor machine. Points float- I love Petronics- problem solved

[@eugenecastles7475]

Good morning Nick, oh yeah some Pontiac power on the dyno.

[@NicksGarage]

Morning! Thanks for joining us.

[@DonCatherman]

I own a 66 tempest. Bought when I was 19. I'm 54 now..still love it..still drive it.. Has a 406 CI ..400 out i Of a 76 grand Prix freshened up block...th 400 trans. Runs 12 s On motor..set up for spray.. Stock bottom end forged pistons. I built the motor over 18 year's ago..street raced track raced .. sprayed..a bunch 210 shot...👍👍👍

[@Mike383HK]

My 389 was the best engine I ever had. My brother's 65 GTO was the same. Start 1st time, never smoked and ran perfectly.

[@corporalclegg914]

you could get & build another one.

[@Mike383HK]

@@corporalclegg914 I wish!! I need a car to put it in.

[@vinjank]

@@Mike383HK my father has a 69 or a 70 gto hahah he has a 389 in it as well

[@corporalclegg914]

@@vinjank - I hear ya, Mike. I hope you get your hands on an old Pontiac motor & relive your 389 days…they’re equal to what Ponce de León was seeking. my dad has a few basket 389s that need building, plus a tri-power 389 in a Red ‘64 GTO 4-speed & a built 455HO waiting it’s turn in a Gold ‘64 GTO. I plan to build both 389s, even if they sit on stands for a bit. I’m over 40 & dad’s over 70, but we’re freaking middle-school boys when we beat old Pontiac 4-speeds.

[@corporalclegg914]

I’m interested in finding a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door 4WD) without an engine & augmenting it with a 389. that may be sacrilegious to some, but not to me. I’d be proud to pull that off. I’d carb it first, then consider an EFI kit. I put in a Holley Sniper on an AMC 304 in a CJ7 4-speed & it’s amazing. good luck…I hope something falls in your lap in a deal too sweet to turn down.

[@johnelliott7375]

Yes sir it did and a good friend of mine had one in a manual. He took the 389 out kept it and he put a built 400 in it. He passed away from bladder cancer and she sold of his collection of stuff and I don't know what the Son got if anything. God bless you all and have a great day tomorrow.

[@williamsizemore98]

I went to school with a girl who's father gave her a 67 Pontiac GTO, 389 Tri Power. That car still had the original paint. Beautiful Ride.

[@stevemarshall9314]

sorry no such car...1967 had a 400 and single 4 barrel only

[@JamesSterling]

'66 was the last year for the 389 and tri-power. I know, I had one new. '67 was a 400 with a four barrel as the only engine.

[@williamsizemore98]

@@JamesSterling yeah, it probably was a 66. I remember this girl driving it up to where we were partying and it was just sweet. It was a 389 Tri Power, still had the original paint, had one tiny little dent on the passenger door. She got it for graduation gift from her parents but her dad was the original owner.

[@mikemarini717]

67 400. No 389 and tri power

[@ScarlettFire341]

1967 GTO 400 was offered with a DEALER ADDED Tri Power - anyone could get it if requested after the car was delivered to the dealer NEW

[@jasonmichaud8155]

My father bought a 1969 Gto brand new for 2600 Dollars RIGHT FROM THE DEALER IN FORT KENT MAINE WHEN HE GOT OUT OF VIETNAM 400 SMALL BLOCK I BELIEVE, VERY NICE-MOTOR YOU HAVE THERE NICK DANG AWESOME

[@williamadam3888]

Thanks for keeping it real, by showing how frustrating things can get.

[@johnelliott7375]

Surprised it didn't have the trip power on it it was the one I think was advertised at that? Been so long and I can't remember. I am surprised that Nick doesn't know, he is the walking encyclopedia of knowledge that he has forgotten more than most people know. God bless and keep on your mission Nick! You are a great treasure of my generation.

[@ajw6715]

Oh! The one piece point condenser. Back about 1974 I had a neighbor who did a tune up on his car and for a week I noticed has car hadn't moved so I ask him what was up with the car? He told me about the tune up he did so I took a look and seen the new one piece points condenser. I had run into this problem in the passed so I asked him what he did with his old points. He came up with them and they were not one piece. Installed them and it fired right up. Lol. The one piece points set were all junk.

[@reedcearley1392]

Just put a point/condenser set in my old nova. Once set runs fine. I've had new condenser fail out of the box. Electronic ignition is better until it fails. And that can happen at any moment. HEI recently failed on my cosworth. One minute it was working. Next minute it was not. Module failed. Keep a spare. It's the 3rd time it's done that.

[@BessieMorrison]

This video is very important. Because it shows even the best can have headaces with even simple fixes.

[@allanarndt3047]

I had a “65” GTO Convertible 4 speed, I loved,it was taken from me by a drunk driver who slammed into me as I waited at a railroad crossing for a train to pass. Your video brings back a lot of memory’s I had with my then girlfriend now my wife of 44 years! Wish I still had that car! To your testing, it sounds like your starter needs to be shimmed a bit,it’s binding on the flex plate/ flywheel.

[@tomlarsen8307]

So sorry about your 65 GTO. I had mine from 1966 to 1985. Married 27 years to first wife and going on 20 years with #2. Take care. Enjoyed your comment. Tom, The Class of 1965. Carlmont HS, Belmont, CA

[@ericthompson3551]

First thing I did when I inherited my Grandma's 1968 Lemans with only 27,000 miles in 1993, electronic ignition.

[@pontiacdavis]

Had the same experience with the points in my 68 firebird 350, swapped it out for a HEI unit, night and day difference

[@jeffhelton2735]

all my years of being a mechanic nick its so hard to do is just walk away come back the next day i have spent hours working on something that's or should be really simple walk away go back the next morning and fix it in 5 minutes i remember old timers telling me many times to do that i have learned it works for me unbelievable done it many times i think we get so aggravated it gets to the mind. just walk away go back the next day

[@scott1395]

I've seen a properly rebuilt rochester quadrojet have more jump in it than a dual line carb! Old GTO owner of quite a few old goats!!!

[@davelowets]

A Quadrajet can be a great carb for a street car, if the guy tuning it knows what he is doing with them. For a drag car, forget it. I got into the high 10's with a Quadrajet that had a ton of mods, but a Holley was much better when it came to the strip.

[@scott1395]

@@davelowets my best friend had a 65 gto bored and balanced and he tried a dual line holler for a while for street used! He was constantly having to get another friend of ours to adjust it! Our friend rebuilt a qjet for him and damn that thing had way more jump than the Holly! We also loved that qjet sound! I agree you've gotta know what you're doing rebuilding qjets to really perform great but it can be done!!! We all had goats back in the day! Ive seen a few wrapped around a tree or two also!! Then we grow up to face responsibility!!!!

[@davelowets]

@@scott1395 Yep. The Holley's are more sensitive to weather changes than the Quadrajet.

[@samuelgoodman2825]

Reminds me of the 326 of my brothers 67 firebird.His brother in law Steve Bachman rebuilt it back in 83 and let me help on assembly.That was my first time understanding how they worked.Made me a mechanic.Steve was a well known street racer back in the day around Sterling park in Virginia.Hes a mentor to me.

[@79tazman]

I bet the condenser on the new points is junk if you took the condenser off the old points and put it on the new ones it will work. There have been many new condensers that are junk and I bet that is what is going on with the ones your using

[@brownwrench]

New parts is no gaurantee they are good parts!

[@ZeGermanHam]

Yep. Lots of points sold these days that are junk right out of the box.

[@mschulz55]

Had bad condenser right of the box before

[@throttlebottle5906]

points and condenser (non-polarized electrolytic capacitor) are likely both junk. not enough sales volume for it to be made worth a hill of beans, let alone one bean (how's that for old saying) ;)

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Newer VOMs can read capacitance!

[@jrdmotorsports9718]

Nick, Pontiacs are notorious for being under cammed by most builders. Raising the compression and keeping the cam that tame builds way too much cylinder pressure, aka: heat. Also the reason they eat starters, and you get the hard start issue. They don't have the best for cooling, as there are modifications i do that help a lot in these situations. Those exhaust manifolds are actually a Ram Air 3, 4 into 1 manifold. They are not standard stock exhaust manifolds. Hence the bigger collector. A stock exh. Manifold is 2.250". They also offer those "long branch" RA3 manifolds cnc ported. They work. Same style as the round port RA4. FYI, never offered on a 389. They are available aftermarket. The best tool in a pinch for points? A matchbook. Will get you running every time. Those stock Carter AFB carbs are tough to work with, but as a rated they are 500-550cfm. They do not actually flow that. In comparison, the Tri-power carbs are rated at 750cfm, from all three 2 barrels. Nice job. Actually just got done with a supercharged 440 going in a 70 cuda. Up on my instagram.. and here you are doing a Pontiac, my personal choice of race engines. @jrd_motorsports

[@danawilkes8322]

The AFB was rated at 625 cfm on 1964 - 1966. The The 1964 & 1965 Tri Power (according to Rochester) flowed 814 cfm and the 1966 flowed 887 cfm. We ran the 1966 Tri Powers on 455ci. motors back in the early to mid 1970's for Street Racing. Worked very well with the RA IV camshaft and good 670 heads. This gave us around 12-1 compression. We always had to add some Av gas or race gas. The 670 heads (closed chamber) were the only Pontiac heads that liked a lot of timing. 42 - 44 degrees were what they liked. To keep them running somewhat cool. A 4 core radiator was a must, and nothing over 3.55's in the back. The 4 field starter is what we always used on these. Rarely a problem with them. For points, we used Mallory 102X, and set them up on a Sun machine, set the dwell at 35-36. By the time you hit 6,000 rpm, the dwell was around 30. You could not run anymore dwell than that, otherwise it started to effect the idle. I did the same for big Blocks and small blocks when helping others. Setting them up this way allowed for very high rpm without float. The Firebirds had the longer runner exhaust cast iron headers. We used to open up the collector area on these cast iron headers for extra flow. Hard to believe, that was around 50 years ago.

[@ScarlettFire341]

whats a matchbook ? lol kidding !

[@bobgaudet9941]

Nick please remember even when you replace points with new ones you have to thoroughly clean the contacts with lint-free paper and lacquer thinners

[@Hoggdoc1946]

Which he didn't do along with gapping them with a feeler gauge. I thought this guy knew what he was doing apparently not.

[@mocharger06]

@@Hoggdoc1946 , Nick has probably forgotten more than you ever knew.

[@mynameis9057]

I've always liked the 66-67 GTO and the other similar GMs with that same body style along with Pontiacs engine color and factory dress up kit,it's pretty sharp imo. Perseverance Panaritis at it once again and as usual it truly pays off in the long run! Great job guys,thank you again.

[@sammyprestwood3182]

I believe I would put the 750 Holley on it because you just can't beat a holley

[@royjenkins3880]

I love this show,I'm allways impressed .

[@NicksGarage]

Thank you!

[@overbuiltautomotive1299]

389hp would taker a bit of head porting and smoothing of intake transitions maybe a bit of David vizard type tweaking ,love video sweet build

[@SeekTruthinLight]

That's the way... a very clean mechanic.

[@staceygandy2009]

I thought when your flashlight didn't want to come on that you were fixing to beat the hell out of it!

[@NicksGarage]

Nick has great patience. But not for bad tools.

[@patriot2164]

Got a Couple of the OLD MOTOR Manuals , Still Love them !

[@nickpanaritis4122]

JC. They are full of good info.

[@fw1421]

Lord,I love that Road Runner! Beautiful!

[@samoliver9085]

First Car was a 61 Pontiac Bonneville. 2nd Car New 1964 GTO Convertible Yellow. 389 360 HP 4spd with Trips. 3rd Car was New 1965 GTO Red 4sp with Trips. Brother bought a 1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP I believe, All 389 Engines. Every couple of Months, Points, Plugs, Condenser and playing with the carburetor. Burn a tank of gas Friday Night; Saturday Night and fill up for work the other 5 days. Gas was 17.9 to 24.9 cents a gallon in Detroit, normally using Shell 95 Octane or Sunoco 260. Lots of Memories but we drove the cars in those days. Always working on our cars.

[@ScarlettFire341]

"1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP" nope ... 350 HP unless a Ram Air car or 455 CI - 70 455 was 360 HP, Ram Air lll was 366 HP and Ram Air lV was 370 HP but very under rated Roger Huntington wrote an article about what these engines actually put out; here is the list: (All are gross hp & torque figures.) Engine----------Advertised--Rated HP & Torque---------True HP (?) Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400 Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200 Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600 Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400 Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600 Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400 Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600 Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000 Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200 Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600 Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000 Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600 Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600 Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600 Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800 Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@560

[@billjamison2877]

Another Monday morning and watching my favorite channel with Nick and crew! A great way to rev up my MoPar brain!

[@NicksGarage]

Right on! Thanks for joining us, Bill.

[@davidparnell2450]

Nick, back in the early 1970's here in the UK I worked at a Ford main dealer and at that time we only had points to work with on 99% of cars that came into the shop for tuning. Some distributors even had dual points. I used to do all the electronic engine tuning using a Sun Tester 1120 machine (a ground breaking piece of kit in those days). Common problems with new sets of points were: (A) Caused by not wiping the anti corrosion oil film off the contact faces. (B) Having a poor earth on the distributor base plate (the points screw down directly onto the base plate) which would cause a voltage drop. (C) Poorly aligned contact faces - more common than you think. (D) Lack of grease on the distributor cam lobes causing the points heel to wear away thus closing the points gap. (E) Excessive distributor shaft side play causing the points gap to alter or scatter as we called it as the engine climbed the rev range. (F) Incorrect points dwell angle which can effect (lower) the coil output KV and finally, condenser failure. This can cause arcing/burning across the points face or even a non start situation. Properly installed and gapped (dwelled) points were usually good for at least 6000 miles! P.S. I would pay a tidy some for a half decent 1120 machine to use on my classics! Great channel. DP

[@tbamagic]

I remember cruising in my buddy's father's 66 Goat when it was brand new with this same engine. It was an automatic with a "TempestTorque" 2 speed A/T (aka; Powerglide). A white hardtop with gold roof and interior. I thought it was SOOO gorgeous

[@timsharpe3498]

Pontiac never used a Powerglide in US models. The 1966 Pontiac 2 speed was a super turbine 300 which was an entirely different transmission.

[@paulberkland6197]

Good afternoon folks. I really loved my 66 gto. It had a 74 400 2bbl from a Catalina when I bought it. I put 455 heads on it and a nasty cam, boy did that old goat go.... I haven't read all the comments, but am I the only one that noticed the exhaust manifolds on that beautiful beast? They didn't make too many of that style.

[@martinvartanian9419]

Nick, set the dwell by turning the engine over by the starter and using the Allen wrench to adjust the dwell without starting

[@craigbenz4835]

He needed to sacrifice a feeler gage by bending it so he could set the gap. He spent too much time farting around with the carburetor(s) when he should have known the spark is the weak link on that point system.

[@waynewebb7377]

@@craigbenz4835 back in the day, you could by a set of feeler gauges, pre-bent.

[@craigbenz4835]

@@waynewebb7377 Yeah, I remember those.

[@puddleduckist]

Toss the points, my 69 gto had a dual point set up when i got it yrs ago. First thing was adding an hei then an msd ignition later.

[@melbgrk6725]

Good evening Nick and George from Melbourne, Australia :)

[@NicksGarage]

Hello there! Thank you for being with us.

[@Fair746]

I had a 73 GTO with a 400, a pin hole in the oil filter on the way home from work cost the 400. I put a 1968, 389 out of a Catalina, with the turbo 400 behind it, this ran better than the original. yep it had points, but I had a set of angled and narrow tipped feeler gauges.. Made me think what a pain they were until I got those bent feelers... Thanks man I grew up with points, I still think they throw a meaner spark than the electronic stuff.... thanks and great vid

[@BuzzLOLOL]

'68 would be a high compression ratio 400"...

[@donbrutcher4501]

Time to put the distributor on a Stewart-Warner distributor machine.

[@MontrealMan1970]

I thought Sun made one.

[@donbrutcher4501]

@@MontrealMan1970 You may be right. Haven't used one since the early 70s. Cool machine!

[@Rumpleskin]

What happened to Stewart Warner? I used their gauges. Haven't seen them in years

[@acg4investor]

Good Old Pontiac Motor!! I Love It!!

[@IronChief]

Those are factory exhaust manifolds, but not for that engine. They appear to be Ram Air manifolds that came out a few years later.

[@tylerstevenson4333]

They are 67 RA D PORT reproduction manifolds.

[@throttlebottle5906]

@@tylerstevenson4333 it seem you have the best reply.

[@ronstjohn6780]

@@tylerstevenson4333 we

[@Dayandcounting]

@@tylerstevenson4333 Also used on the 400 HO starting in '67 which is the same spec engine used in later RA III's.

[@stephenrowlan]

The dwell on the points is the key to getting the point distributor to work properly, 19.5 degrees gives the best response.

[@danieldyer1]

My family’s first car was a Pontiac Catalina, 1967 model year. It included new technologies like disc brakes and electronic ignition. My mother said the ignition failed on a trip when the car was new, and stranded them while the Pontiac dealer located a replacement ignition module.

[@wimnathaliebosman9797]

Thanks for this 1 hour 7 min film,, i was smiling

[@thomascowart2634]

You know it is sometimes better to walk away from it and come back later....

[@NicksGarage]

Especially when the operator becomes overheated. 👍

[@JohnBrown-cz7ww]

Heat kills electronics, I had a 65 pontiac bonnivlle and loaned out to a friend to tow his car, he overheated the motor so bad the spark plug wire melted on the plugs. I changed oil and plugs, replace radiator and engine ran like it never happened, great motor.

[@craigcontofalsky4387]

Reminds of the days at Dragway 42 watching the GM guys fooling with their ignitions at the track😂😂😂

[@waynewebb7377]

I don't remember any of the non-GM motors having the window on the distributor cap for quick adjustments. The GM guys took advantage of this feature to tweak the dwell angle.

[@tracystolp5357]

Those are good motors you have a good shop keep up the great work Nick

[@NicksGarage]

Thanks 👍

[@396375a]

I had a 65 GTO with a 400 in it, I bought the car after my brother passed away in 83. He had a 65 GTO when he was in the Marines in Viet Nam, after he was wounded and paralyzed from upper chest down, my Dad had to sell it. Having always had SBC/BBC I was disappointed in performance, should have kept car and put a BBC in it. Sold car more because it only seemed to add to grieving process I was going thorough at the time. Would love to see what Nick could do with this motor with Alum heads, decent cam and induction. Can't beat seeing an engine on the dyno, figures don't lie!

[@artszabo1015]

The 400 Pontiac did not come out until 1967.

[@396375a]

@@artszabo1015 I bought the car in 84 or 85, so 389 in it was long gone by then.

[@artszabo1015]

@@396375a I had a 65 tri power and a 66 4 bbl both with 389s. The big difference was the valvetrain. 67 and back had pressed in rocker studs and were adjusted to a torque setting. They had a tendency to creep out of the head and at high rpms 6k plus the lifters would pump up and float the valves. 67 and newer engines went to Chevy style valvetrain and were much more reliable. I believe the heads were interchangeable.

[@charlestresp4959]

@@artszabo1015 Press-in rocker arm studs were used on the low performance Pontiac engines. Cylinder heads (valve angles were different on the 389-421 heads vs. 350-400-428-455 heads. In 1967, Pontiac changed to a “closed chamber” head design to address emission concerns. Because of the valve angles, valve-to-piston contact could occur unless you use a “universal” style piston with valve reliefs cut in the piston tops for either valve angle approach to the piston top. And pushing a Pontiac motor past 5500-5600 is senseless (unless you’re specifically build the engine for that purpose). Pontiac’s use a long rod length which dislikes RPMs. If you look at the torque curve on a Pontiac motor, you will find torque coming in at lower RPMs and in large amounts. Race-specific Pontiac motors such as the 303 and 366 were built with shorter deck heights, which in turn, used a shorter rod length. (similar to a SBC) in the Trans Am series on the late 60s - early 70s and could live happily in the higher RPM ranges.

[@artszabo1015]

@@charlestresp4959 With all due respect Sir, I believe you will find that the early 60's 421 Super Duty Pontiacs among others were definitely NOT 'low performance" engines. The new head design accurately described by yourself was a development brought out in 1967 for all Pontiac engines not just high performance. Even the 326 got them but 67 was the last year for it. In short Pontiac heads 66 and before had pressed in rocker studs. 1967 and later went to Chevrolet style. I owned and drove these cars when they were late models, and also worked as a professional mechanic back in those days. Art

[@kevinbrislawn5918]

Seeing these cars,66-68 I was impressed when I was in Junior Highschool

[@kenswitzer4133]

Why not replace the mechanical points with a Hall effect replacement. Can’t see them so it will not matter. Will be dependable.

[@davelowets]

A Hall-Effect sensor can not handle the current required that the coil needs to consume. One would need a bunch of other electronic components along with a hall-effect sensor to make that work. At that point, one might as well just purchase a ready to run electronic aftermarket distributor. They can be had for as low as $50 for a cheap one.

[@johnsmith-qz4bv]

nothing rarely goes the the way you want it to ..but thats all part of engine building...you figured it out in the end ...good work nick..

[@billghee9387]

The first fifteen minutes are like watching a first-time new mother with her infant: every burp, cry or fart is attended to. This guy knows motors.

[@billdennis2993]

Thx Nick for bringing back the memories of my '66 Goat from back in the dsy. Keep the oldies rolling.

[@toomanyhobbies2011]

I guess in this day and age of electronic ignitions the distributor curve machine doesn't exist anymore. They used to be in every performance shop, we had one in our high school auto shop that really helped with setting up ours.

[@throttlebottle5906]

now days it's ear timing curb machine LOL. the end result is carbureted machines driving around and sending home the broken tuned electronic junk.

[@toomanyhobbies2011]

Our HS auto shop had one too. Once I learned how to use it, it came in VERY handy when I got a Mallory dual point with no vacuum advance. We really had to put some work into tuning our cars back then, with points ignition, and carburetors. My car was a '66 with Tripower that was advertised at 360 HP from the factory. Rebuilt the engine, did the tuning and turned 12.9 at 110 with slicks and 4.10 gears. I wasn't driving... lol.

[@santatigerclaus]

love the body on the ragtop Poncho sitting outside the dyno room

[@brucegillies1694]

Dwell meters are very handy ,so are distributor machines !

[@berniemckenna9770]

Yeah you're probably right they are now not back then.

[@moparedtn]

*NICK!* Man, I hate engines with distributors in the back, always have. Only thing I hate worse? Uni-points. I remember when those came out and we all thought they were the coolest thing - until we started using them. They never lasted as long as separate points and condenser, seems like. Heck with 'em, electronic ignition every time! Good old big block Mopar - distributor in the front, Ma's own electronic ignition and you set it and forget it.... Oh well, Nick got the job done eventually and the lesson is he DIDN'T QUIT on it! Enjoyed it as always, see you over on Patreon, - Ed on the Ridge

[@michaelbaumgardner2530]

I've always thought they were more than 335hp factory,I remember my chevy 2 getting its doors blew off by one back in the day.

[@RN67POST]

Tri power with ram air cam and manifolds 360 hp👍

[@dondawson8700]

In the early 80's I sold auto parts, going town to town calling on all the shops, each shop had an igintion cabinet full of points, rotors, caps, condesors etc. As a salesman you would go through the cabinet take inventory and then tell the owner what he needed for stock. Most shops kept 5-10 sets of GM points, as these were most popular and needed to be changed the most, and the ones the tech struggled with. As a sales guys the money was in the igintion cabinet. Once electronics came in within a very short time this was all gone, as electronics were much better and needed less maintenance. Seeing Nick have issues with GM points doesn't surprise me at all

[@SSbigblock454]

Back in the day I never used feeler gauges on point adjustment for any of the manufacturer's cars. I would crank the engine with the dwell meter hooked up and adjust them while cranking.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Yes, go dwell over points gap...

[@ronaldlewis4032]

28 to 32. Laughing, I used to set my dwell too ! A feeler gauge at 17 will run anything using points

[@petercivitello3587]

The starter concern was possibly from a repeated hot soaking condition Pontiac and heat was a big concern.The starter was so close to the exhaust that they would overheat and cause them to draw too high of a current through the stator windings when they got hot. The heat shield was very important on these things and none of the backyard wrenchers would put them back on. Brings me back to the 80's and early 90's and work at a Pontiac dealer as a tech. I had a 66 GTO and 3 other parts cars. . I never dynoed it but I had a 400 cu inch from a 1968, a Crane Cam with a Doug Nash Dual Quad manifold and 2 Carter AFB 425 CFM carbs. Headers, 2&1/2 exhaust, Muncie M20 trans and a 4:11 Detriot locker rear axle - a rat rod yeah, but man what fun that car was as a kid. Love seeing all the classics.😃

[@johnwooden8393]

Points, Ballast Resisters, Rotor Button, Coil. Always keep them in the trunk. The 1 time I didn't. You know the rest.

[@wokewokerman5280]

...that's the truth, even a spare cap!

[@johnwooden8393]

@@wokewokerman5280 Yep! kept the old belts, a funnel, oil, hoses wire or two ,spark plugs, I carried everything I could think of,, Probably added 200 extra pounds in the trunk.

[@douglasburford8452]

A point ignition system is not a mystery. Install it properly, adjust it properly, it will work every time.

[@johnwooden8393]

No mystery at all. Especially when any of those parts fail 30 miles from home.

[@johnhunter1847]

A Mallory conversion fixed my problem 40 years ago

[@joesmith306]

The rule of thumb when I was using points was the setting was half the spark plug gap.

[@kenswitzer4133]

The motor manual has been an auto Bible for many of us.

[@GeoHvl]

Whoa! What's up with the Yellow Fury? Many of these Moms grocery getters came with 383 and 440s'. I had a 70 Road Runner did the same crap. But at least with Plymouth’s you could use a feeler gauge. These GMs know you’re a MOPAR guy, payback….

[@williamweir2744]

Pontiac Pontiac i want my money back

[@Channelscruf]

Always liked that Pontiac blue.

[@79tazman]

The points made today are junk compared to the old stuff even ask uncle Tony he has had lot's of issues with points lately I guess since not many cars use them anymore they lowered their quality on making a good part but the points are not the only issue the condenser are junk lot's of times too

[@ewconway]

Yes I agree, UT has an entire video describing brand new points that fail out of the box. I suspect the new points you took out of the box are failed junk.

[@dondakota920]

I remember factory techs teaching classes in 1980s telling us that many young techs have no clue how to adjust points with a dwell meter. At least gm made that easy instead of fiddling with feeler gauges on a worn distributor that wobbles more than the spec to adjust the points. Back in the day your points won and lost races, those good at tuning understood this and its the reason I went with a Mallory unilight ignition in 1970s, never looked back but if we get hit with an EMP bomb only those vehicles with points/carb and old school diesels will be running. A 12 valve Cummins will run on the oil you drain out of all the dead cars littering the highways haha Hopefully never comes to that, yet still important to know.

[@dondakota920]

They were teaching us about injector dwell which was equally confusing to us.

[@disneyjoe7]

Agree old Pontiac dud but found blue streak points worked best but I don’t even know whom makes good points today.

[@yambo59]

@@disneyjoe7 Yeah I always had good luck with blue streak points made by standard ignition I think, but I also used a lot of Delco one piece units back in the 70's and never had any problems. Usually it was cheap off brand points that were junk, I loved the old Delco one piece units so easy to install and set with an allen wrench and a dwell meter, just a few minutes once you got good at it - on the delcos you didnt even have to take the mounting screws out of the breaker plate.

[@cindysmart9854]

Mike smart Tulsa Oklahoma good job on diagnosing that point problem I had the same problem with a 62 413 four barrel a mechanic friend of mine said get away from the points go to pertronics it fired right up and ran fantastic so good diagnosis have a blessed day sir and hang in there there for a minute I felt your frustration

[@texasredneck9226]

Hang in there Nick! Been there, done that too! Even ran a dual point Mallory, it was a real headache! That GM design was a great improvement over what it replaced. Went to Mallory first gen electronic system (Unilite?) They were a pain too!

[@DaveHarmon-fs1dc]

The 1966 Pontiac GTO 389 cu in with a single carter 4 bbl. had a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Where as the 389 cu in with tri-power (3-2 bbl) had a 10.75:1 compression ratio. I had a 1966 GTO with 389 cu in, with (3-2bbl) 360 hp. I put 80,000 miles in 4 years on that car. I had a blast with my GTO.

[@maxpowerta3183]

When those engines were new the rope seals were made from asbestos and they worked fine, since that material has been banned most rope seals (the ones that come in gasket kits) are made out of a fiber glass material and they cant handle the heat and virtually always fail after a few thousand miles. The "Best gasket company" graphite rope seal is the only rope seal you should ever use on a Pontiac engine, or better yet use the one or two piece viton seals that are also available for Pontiacs as well.

[@mitchellgrexa8225]

Better yet the one piece viton seal!

[@maxpowerta3183]

@@mitchellgrexa8225 the viton seals work great (particularly on the 400's) but I have seen issues with the seal cavity on the 455 not being machined entirely concentric and when that happens the viton seal can leak. The graphite rope seal gets packed into that cavity and so it doesn't care about imperfections and seals up perfectly.

[@BobJones-fc3ef]

@@maxpowerta3183 the reason a lot of 2 piece seals end up leaking is they need to be turned slightly so they don't line up with the parting line of the cap and block. A lot of people miss this small but significant detail.

[@chrisbrown3925]

Are those 1967-on ram air exhaust manifolds?

[@maxpowerta3183]

@@chrisbrown3925 yeah they look like the new R. A. R. E. Manifolds

[@nancycardoza8724]

Wow that was a tough one!

[@bennyogden4524]

I've had quite a few GTOs I'm going to tell you that engine sounds sweet

[@markwallace5274]

Wow love the Pontiac stuff takes me back to my child hood in the garage with my Dad and his Pontiacs which he still has

[@Imnotyourdoormat]

Nick always keeps his Dyno Room Spartan.....

[@rusty6666]

Nice work nick she gave u a hard time i must say for sure but you got it going again and that;s the cool thing about it you never gave up on it and the results were good...

[@amazoidal]

I had the optional transistorized ignition with the magnetic impulse distributor. You will do much better with a more modern ignition system. Huge improvement!

[@bbb462cid]

I stuck an HEI on my 455 back in '91 and never regretted it

[@robertsnyder5149]

In 166 I used to be able to beat 4 barrel 389's with my 390 hp 335 hp and 4 speed. I bought the Comet for $3224.00 brand new in the spring of 1966.

[@lcee6592]

A nice job on the 389. I would have went with the electronic points too. However, no offense should be taken, but a call to Buttler Performance and some conversation, may have netted a little more performance per their suggestions. They are THE #1 authority on Pontiacs. I would bet a well tuned Q-Jet (800cfm) would have made 350-360 hp.

[@reginalddentry7338]

My sisters friend Russ Adams in Royal Oak worked at Royal Pontiac . I brought him a large carter thermo quad. Love those secondary’s. Timings is off it’s groaning

[@alvarsdzenis4739]

Good job Nick! Love it when you put muscle car engines on the dyno.

[@NicksGarage]

Me too!

[@wreckanchor]

My father told me a story about my uncle who received a new 1965 GTO 389 tri power car with a 4 speed for his High School graduation in 1965. My uncle didn't like the car as he said all it would do was spin tires and float lifters. My Father told me my uncle had some of his friends steal the car so he could collect the insurance $$ for it. My uncle took the insurance $$ and bought a new 1965 Corvette with a 396 425 hp engine in it. My uncle LOVED that Vette and he never lost a race on the streets in it so he said.

[@MoparDan]

Well Nick, this video brought back my own memory. When I was about ten years old my late Dad was showing me at the time how to adjust the dwell through the access door on our '64 Chevrolet Impalas’ distributor. Somehow I got my left hand in the wrong place and got "bit" by the coil. Boy did I let loose of that Allen key fast! It felt later like a giant socked me in my left arm. (I'm a lefty). These days I’m just about ready to try for my first time to remove, clean and reinstall the throttle body on my ’12 Chrysler 200 with the Pentastar V6 engine. Hope it goes well.

[@glennoropeza3545]

Thank you for your dedication to preserving these automotive musclecar power plants!

[@IRONHEAD12701]

Wow! I haven’t seen a Carter 4bbl in ages. I wasn’t a big fan of them, as I recall rebuilding them were difficult. Love watching your KZbin videos Nick. I’m a big fan, live in the Catskills of upstate New York. Hopefully I’ll be able to take a trip up to Laval and check out your shop. I haven’t been to Montreal since the 1976 Olympic Games.

[@nickpanaritis4122]

IRON. You are not far.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Not much too rebuild, just a chunk of metal with holes in it and a few moving parts...

[@walterhambrick8705]

It was nice to see "points". That was the way I learned a long time ago. When experience tells you to stop, it is wise to do so. Thanks for sharing.

[@4ondflor]

Thanks for walking us through the troubleshooting, it’s nice to see the steps and use them as future reference if I run into the same. This is the kind of tech help that you only get by being there, but this channel helps open the world to all of us. I really appreciate the insight and experience and the time you take to share it with the community. Thanks Nick!