2012 JLT Lockinge Stakes - Frankel

[@GBeret83]

Combine Frankel's effortless cruising speed with his ability to create the kind of explosive separation on his rivals that he could create quite literally on command and I'm not sure there's a proper adjective to describe it, because just using "special" sort of falls short in my eyes. The overall package of raw, natural, God-given ability this horse had truly did make Frankel Sir Henry Cecil's "beast of burden." He had the ability to make talented horses go from looking extraordinary to ordinary faster than the track announcer could even articulate it to the crowd.

[@bgardiner3354]

Great comment GB

[@richfairclough123]

Take away Queally, who couldn’t settle himself in a king size water bed, and you would have seen frankel doing cartwheels down the longchamp and Epsom straights...

[@cavdavid]

love his running action esp up a hill its like a machine

[@joshuadoherty562]

I love it when it kicks off on here

[@MrDraven37]

That is awesome to be involved with racing like you are, I'm just a spectator myself. First horse that made an impression on me was the King, you just don't see horses like that much anymore like Kingston Town. My favorite horse though is the tassie champ Sydeston. Backed him in the caulfield cup 1990 and every race he run after that, whether he had a chance or not. He wasn't a superstar but I loved him, caulfield cup, 2nd a week later in the Cox Plate, not an average horse by any means.. cont.

[@RidingWithRuffian]

I haven't been following horse racing like I use to due to college life. However, I was watching one of Black Caviar's performance and someone was comparing her to Frankel. I didn't think anyone could compare to that mare, but once I watched Frankel, I knew he was a definite powerhouse. I was seriously speechless.. not only was he great but he has the same star as Barbaro..

[@tjjlm444]

bro ty so much i couldnt understand it but you answered that question and now i fully understand lol.im here in america and wish weve had some of the horses both countries had in the last few years(makybe diva,bc,sts,zarkava and frankel)gotta also include goldi in there too.our only 2 we can compare with them in the last 10 years are ghostzapper and curlin.

[@wayevs]

You can judge past horses from the past against frankel all you want and you can debate if he or she was better but at the end of it all nobody in my lifetime thus far has made a race look more effortless than frankel . Simply put he is the most naturally gifted horse EVER and I doubt that can be debated . You can bang on about your arcs and derbys but at the end of the day no horse in history has made the sport of horse racing look so easy and conclusive .frankel is to horse racing what roger federer is to tennis and Ronnie o Sullivan is to snooker

[@MrDraven37]

Very insightful Cath, and very true. That is how any horse racing fan should view both horses and this entire debate. And I wish we all did see it that way. The spanner in the works and pretty much the whole reason behind the debate is very simple. It's the old, time honored rivalry between England and Australia. We've always been very competitive, and I guess we always will be. But you hit the nail on the head, in BC and Frankel, the racing world has two outstanding champions.

[@MrDraven37]

Just got home from work and caught the end of the news at the sport sections. They had a feature talking about Frankel running tonight (Australia time), as well as Ortensia in the King Stands. They briefly mentioned BC running on saturday. It was good to see them have some balance when it comes to the Royal Ascot meetings by giving Frankel his due in the report.

[@ASupremeOwl]

horses like him are goldust as you know, The visual impression he gives is unlike anything I've ever seen...

[@leedelaney70]

Josh Tulloch won 12 Grp1 races in his 3yo year incl. the Australian (breaking Phar Lap's track record), Victoria (by 8 lengths from Prince Darius who ran a neck 2nd in Melb Cup 4 days later) & Queensland Derby's, the Caulfield Cup (in a world record time for mile 1/2 on turf). He won 7 Grp1's against the older horses in his 3yo year where he beat Grp1 winners such as Macs Amber & Sailors Guide (who won a DC International in the USA). He missed nearly 2 years and came back & won a Cox Plate.

[@ThefightingCelt]

Whoah... falls back in amazement. : D

[@MrConnolly25]

Hi mate,that was incredible! my dad witnessed Sea Bird,Mill Reef etc & today he openly said he has never in 70 years of watching the game seen a horse dismantle a field like that! he was astonished as to be fair was every1 else.I hope Black Caviar wins too but nothing will top Frankels performance,BC is entitled to win by a huge margin as the 2nd best sprinter is back in Aus!

[@leedelaney70]

In a field of 18 ! The Caulfield Cup is a top class mile 1/2 race thats unquestionable. Here's some winners in the last 30 years - Ming Dynasty, Gurners Lane, Tristarc, Cole Diesel, Sydeston, Lets Elope, Mannerism, Doriemus, Might and Power, Sky Heights, Ethereal, Northerly, Mummify, Elvstroem, Viewed, Descarado. All are multiple Grp1 winners. The Yalumba, Cox Plate and Mackinnon all attract similar fields with the Cox Plate having the best of the best. All top class races

[@leedelaney70]

Ryan Moore, a 3 time British champion jockey has told readers of his column that Black Caviar holds a unique place in the annuals of the all-time greats."There has never been one like her, she is brilliant” Moore said. "I can’t recall any horse coming into this race with so much in hand on their rivals.” Those sentiments were echoed by Johnny Murtagh, the former Coolmore number 1 rider "Everything she has done in Australia has been phenomenal, so it will be great to see her running over here"

[@markhodgkinson6649]

Excelebration was a top class group 1 horse with a great turn of foot. He proved how good he was when winning the QE11 at Ascot. When he met Frankel in the Lockinge he had already got race fit and Frankel was first time out. That Frankel could thrash him so very easily was quite something. That was Frankel though, a truly great race horse. All the fuss about Enable, and Frankel could have given her a stone.

[@regginald81]

To put this into context there was a G2 7f race preceding this. The went off even slower at the start of that race and ran the last 4f much, much slower (about 2.5 seconds) than Frankel did. In fact they said if you put the winner of the 7f race into Frankel's race at the 4f marker Frankel would have put 12L on him by the finish.

[@bgardiner2000]

Thanks Oz... I'd take my act on the road but my lycra suit is at the cleaners. Pretty exciting times on the racing front. It's certainly bridging the gap to the spring. Can't wait to see how last years juvies & 3yo's get on. How did ur filly pull up?

[@bgardiner2000]

you make a good point... we are lucky to be having such a conversation with the precedence we've seen previously with 3yo's being retired. We've had some similar examples in Australia although there is definitely more of an atitude around racing them into their 4/5yo seasons. I also agree with wanting to see him against the 10F brigade. There is enough form around them for it to leave no doubt (for those that have any) of his position at the top of the tree.

[@MrDraven37]

It's all good MrC, I understand that my comments about geldings and not allowing them was made out of ignorance. Seriously, my perspective on horse racing is what I grew up with, and obviously there are quite a few differences between racing in Europe and racing in Australia. And I happily admit that I have hardly a clue when it comes to your racing. I know of some of your champions, because they have been that impressive to have been heard of all the way down here. Anyways, I was out of line.

[@MrDraven37]

Thanks Oz, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and helping to expand my own and fill in some of the large holes in mine, unlike some others on here. So what happened in the UK in regards to sprinters? I know all their Classics start from a mile and up, but what was the cause behind deciding sprinters are of no value in their industry?

[@leedelaney70]

Eight Carat was a super broodmare MrCaspa. She also had Mouawad (Grp1 winner) & Diamond Lover (dam of Grp1 winner & sire Don Eduardo) as well. She has Nearco on both the sire and dam side of her pedigree. Nearco had Carbine on the damside & was also the grandsire of Northern Dancer, who sired Danzig who sired Danehill. Very strong family indeed

[@MrDraven37]

That's fair enough Celt. The first time that I watched SYT race was in his first Cox Plate win, and it surprised me big time. I knew he was one of Bart's horses and Bart thought very highly of him. But he had only had 4 starts before the Plate, had won 2 of them, and had ran fifth in the Caulfield Guineas. And because the Plate is our WFA championship, there was quite a lot of debate of whether he had done enough in those 4 starts to even warrant a place in the field. Cont.

[@dbasto1]

She is without doubt the best sprinter the World has seen, and Secretariat the best horse ever.

[@BalmainBucko]

Ozzie, yes I remember the wog tag as well, things have changed these days though both my sons played soccor and league as well as aussie rules...as a parent I enjoyed watching them play all three codes.

[@joshuadoherty562]

fair assessment MrDraven. You are one of the ones on here that actually speaks sense! He isn't the best ever no, but the best for a very long time! I do think people make too much of this pacemaker business though he's won without one and obviously the the field can ignore it anyway as they did in the QE2 last year. And the abroad thing. He won across varying distances in sprints miles and middle distance. She traveled, each present there own problems, each overcame them.

[@tobydow1]

Having experience at doing something and having success at it are two very different things

[@tobydow1]

Ozzieinlucca, she's trained by Bart and called Shuswap. She ran last Saturday at Warwick Farm, she's by Pins (for our kiwi friends that's Puns) ran a nice 5th over 1200, but we know she wants now atleast 1400+. She won last prep at her last start at 1550 at Canterbury, nice little horse but no BC

[@greyhound497]

he is more than your eyes can belive

[@ThefightingCelt]

Actually Joshua, the Brigadier only raced on heavy ground twice. Once over a mile at Ascot and the other when he won the Eclipse. Brigadier Gerard hated heavy ground, and it was only his class and courage which helped him prevail on that surface. When he won the King George ( his only race over 12f ), the ground was good to firm.

[@ThefightingCelt]

Exactly Ozzie, which more or less illustrates my point. Italy took due cognizance of that and adjusted the group status of their Derby and Oaks accordingly.

[@joshuadoherty562]

I know this may be a little premature and extreme for one horse. But since she has brought racing alive in Australia and really reignited it, and Moody has trained her for 21 win straight, he should get some sort of Royal recognition. I know it's the horse but how many top class animals have been beaten! Phar Lap, Tulloch, Sea the Stars, Brigadier Gerard, Secreteriat etc. If she would have lost I doubt there would have been this massive interest in oz racing. Moody Deserves full credit for that.

[@leedelaney70]

I still get goosebumps watching that Japan Cup win...."it's Ode, Cacoethes, Better Loosen Up between them, Ode, Cacoethes, Better Loosen Up's coming thru, Ode, Better Loosen puts his head in front Better Loosen Up's won for Australia...we've done it we've taken the Japan Cup with Better Loosen Up" or words to that effect. He's probably my all time favourite horse, along with Sunline

[@ThefightingCelt]

What makes Frankel's performance even more impressive is that he ran most of the race with only three shoes. Tom Queally reported that Frankel lost a shoe early on.

[@MrDraven37]

Rose, you need to realise though that one of the reasons that a lot of people like to compare BC and Frankel and think that they could race against each other. And that is, prior to the current day where horses are bred and trained to be so specialised in terms of their distance they race at ie. sprinter, miler, stayer etc., there used to be horses that had a lot more scope. Kingston Town for example, won races between 1200m and 3200m. It was back when horses were a lot tougher.

[@tobydow1]

Ozzieinlucca, my reasoning was that you often see a mare who has done nothing in the breeding barn all of a sudden throw a champ. I know what breeders want but it sometimes get to 3 or 4 foals before they realize that their mare isn't valuable as a broodmare and can't produce a winner

[@smashthegrannyootye]

Ozzie quality reply mate !!!! Can't wait for Ascot and Frankel.

[@joshuadoherty562]

the times are available mate, I think from memory the final 3f are quicker in the qe2

[@MrDraven37]

And this is for MrCaspa21 as well, but for me personally in terms of the King, I remember most his 2nd to Gurner's Lane in the Melb Cup in 1982. His three Cox Plates are the high mark of his career, but for him to be able to stretch that class and almost win the greatest 2 mile race in Australia? You just don't see horses doing that anymore. I also remember that for a time, he was known as a Sydney champ.. what was it? Something like 20 straight wins in Sydney?

[@leedelaney70]

Sounds like it was the type of run that says step me up in distance.....very encouraging

[@MrDraven37]

If Frankel goes on and wins at G1 level at 10f as you said the lofty rating will be stamped as having been worthy. I agree at a mile he is unbeatable. And I enjoy the not knowing about a horse as good as he whether he will get the distance or not. It just makes the race more exciting. Like what is coming up for BC tonight (today for those in the UK), she is the best sprinter in the world currently, she has traveled and settled in well, but there is always the unknown when it is the first time.

[@bgardiner2000]

Thank goodness for that.

[@MrConnolly25]

He was ridiculous,it was a complete demolition & to win by 11 lengths... he was eased down too.Im so looking forward to seing Black Caviar though,i dont care if she wins by a nose i just want to see her.Seing her will be eqully as thrilling form me as seing Frankel was.I love great horses & im just praying the due downpor on Thurs has no ill effects.I spoke to a few Aussies & they were impressed with Frankel & explained a lot about BC,it was a great day with more to come.

[@bgardiner2000]

You're right Mr C... trainers will nominate for multiple races to give themselves some options as the race/s near.... weather, how the horse is training, others entered all being considered factors.

[@ThefightingCelt]

The voice of reason as usual, ozzie. You know us too well. ; )

[@watchinginawe]

@MrDraven37 That's an interesting point actually, mate. I have been amazed at how the bookies have priced up Frankel, certainly since his 2000g procession. He has generally been about the 1.33 mark, except for when he faced Canford in the Sussex and was 1.61. If I were a bookie I wouldn't want to take a penny on him and would have him at a crazy price, as with BC.

[@peace-now]

I agree. I was at all three Cox Plates that Kingston Town ran in. I was also there at the track when Dr Fager smashed the world record. I also saw Il Tempo win the Wellington Cup in world record time. I was there on the track when So You Think won both Cox Plates. I have seen Secretariat live, but not at the Belmont. I agree with you dad. I have never seen any horse just toy with a class field like Frankel. As a New Zealander, I can say that he is THAT GOOD. I honest think he is the best.

[@MrDraven37]

Bart is the master, he really is. I hope he gets at least one more win in The Cup before he leaves us. Unfortunately, I don't see a horse like Precedence being able to do it. It made me sad when he lost SYT. I used to have on VHS a video called 'The Dominators'... Smith, Hayes, and Cummings. The cream of the crop of Australian racing, sadly we only have one left.

[@machismo64]

Secretariat actually raced once in Canada in his last race.

[@MrDraven37]

Nice to see SYT produce the form that we knew he was capable of in the Prince of Wales. It wasn't as impressive as Frankel's effort, but it was encouraging. It's be proven that SYT is far from being infallible, but 10 G1 wins is nothing to sneeze at, particularly as they were won in both hemispheres. I read that Aidan O'Brien is not afraid to take on Frankel in the Eclipse. Would be good to see but I'm not convinced SYT could beat him, but that is what would make the race exciting.

[@richardrampley4980]

Many horses have won more prestigious races like the arc and Derby but no horse ever has won his races with such ease. He is without doubt the greatest ever. Look how he destroyed exelbration in the lockinge how he blew away multiple group one miler can ford cliffs in the Sussex stakes. The knockers will always exist reality is if you listen to trainers and jockeys who frankly know more than us he is the greatest.

[@tobydow1]

Were'd u get the synopsis on BC

[@MrDraven37]

Yeah Ascot was a lot tougher than they were expecting, particularly with the ground which she had to deal with. And Celt, you would have to agree that the injuries that she suffered in that race also does factor into why her performance was below her best. Last time she suffered muscle tears, but in her chest, she barely won by half a length in about her fourth or fifth race. I know it will never happen, but I think you would find if Frankel ever raced on our tracks, he would jar up badly.

[@MrGraspONE]

Im a proud aussie - Frankel was unbelievable last night. For all you british, many people in Australia were stumped at the idea of a horse like Ortensia going overseas to tackle group ones sprints. Very far from our best. You wont be disappointed with the mighty mare BC though.

[@joshuadoherty562]

Fair point but going back to chasers, Kauto Star had a turn of foot and he was a front running horse going ditances far greater than 4000m, He was probably the best horse over the sticks since Arkle and ffor a front running horse running such long distances had a decent turn of foot. It aided him in the final stages more than anything.

[@ASupremeOwl]

Sea Bird II, Nijinsky, Dancing Brave, Shergar etc were abit before My time. Sea The Stars was a great who proved himself over many distances. How do we define greatness?

[@joshuadoherty562]

I agree with the Black Caviar bit there mate, it would be unfair on her, but the only reason say the average successful mid distance horse would do well against a sprinter is because the standard of MD horses is generally higher but she's not a normal sprinter, in fact she's without doubt the best sprinter I've seen.

[@regginald81]

i have no idea what you are talking about with regards to the lockinge and a 7f race being run there on the day. All i said was that he ran the last 5f between 57-58 seconds which i thought was pretty good on soft going. I never mentioned any other races or any other horses in connection with the Lockinge race.

[@ASupremeOwl]

Secretariat is undoubtedly a great, His record speaks for itself he was a genuine equine freak and he's certainly the best American shorelines have seen. If you take into account of Timeforms opinion of Frankel he's the best we've seen in Europe, And they've been accessing horses for nearly 60 years now and they've seen all the very best in that time its a big big compliment to the Cecil superstar. He's without a doubt the best I've seen or Im likely to see...

[@leedelaney70]

Yeah there was that and there was another where the camera is on the side and just panning as she flies up the incline. It was on Paul Messara's video diary that he's doing

[@smashthegrannyootye]

Wave how do you manage to type with a straight jacket on ?

[@watchinginawe]

wave, you come across so well & your high level of intellect is clear to see. Your charm is reminiscent of the great Sir Les Patterson & you show your contrymen in a wonderful light. Also your habit of randomly threatening physical violence against all of your cyberspace contacts is of great credit to you. You may have trouble finding your victims with just a username to go on, but it would be so worth it, especially if you could land one on a lady. No wonder we dumped our convicts in Australia.

[@leedelaney70]

lol good morning Oz yeah was a good win. Our form has been OK these past few weeks with a 100 point home win, a 16 point away loss (after being 60 points down at one stage) and now a narrow 2 point home victory against top of the table Eagles. Have the mid season break this week before we play Hawks away but should get Black back by then. I like our young kids just gotta get more game time into them

[@ASupremeOwl]

Michael Stoute to Sir Henry Cecil to Alain Royer Dupre all these top class trainers in Europe are magnaminous on Frankel - The best we've seen in Europe. I was lucky enough to witness the great Dancing Brave and I was certain I wouldn't see another with that raw ability, Frankel as took it to another level. How he compares to the likes of Secretariat to Phar Lap is very debateable its hard to compare but I haven't seen a finer thoroughbred in Europe...

[@MrDraven37]

No question about him being the best in the world. The horse is a freak, a horse that can run at distance, while still managing to maintain a sprinters pace. And you're right about how for a lot of aussies that a horse being able to win on the travel wasn't vital until BC did it.. of course there is favouritism there.. myself included. But dude, it's like a boxer claiming to be the WORLD heavyweight boxer, but he never fights outside his home country. It will haunt frankel till the end.

[@regginald81]

Its just an example like the ones i used before when actual sectional data from Goodwood (when they used to have it) showed that his last 4f was pretty impressive. Or if you want why don't you look at this video and see how quick he runs the last 5f of this race. I make it between 57-58 seconds which is either 11.6 or 11.4 secs a furlong which i think is equally impressive considering the soft going - or would you disagree with that too?

[@leedelaney70]

Yes they do remember them the way they raced. Octagonal, Better Loosen Up, Super Impose getting there on the line. Sunline, Might and Power leading them a merry dance highballing it out in front etc

[@leedelaney70]

From all reports she travelled well & settled in beautifully. Her odds are shortening by the day for the Diamond Jubilee. It will be good to see her work prior. Did you see the vision of Ortensia working up that incline ? She looked good

[@leedelaney70]

I agree wholeheartedly BB. Luckily for us, we don't have to worry too much here in Australia with regards to the successes of our national sporting teams as we punch way above our weight. Everybody loses even Australia but I like to say......Form is temporary, class is permanent !!

[@MrDraven37]

Cont. I really don't take advantage though and go to the races hardly ever, moreso because none of the people in my circle of friends are into horse racing. I haven't seen BC live, and I need to make sure I rectify that. Been to the Melbourne Cup once, 1988 when Empire Rose finally won because of how huge size wise she was, and the Cox Plate once, the year that Dane Ripper shocked everyone and won at 40-1. I love Moonee Valley, such a great track.

[@tobydow1]

Not sure Oz, Bart said she has missed a bit of work because the tracks (randwick) was closed for a few days because of the weather, but the form from the race has stacked up so hopefully she runs well, probably looking for further than 1300.

[@bgardiner2000]

The flaw with the ratings systems though is that they are based on peak performances rather than "worth." The ratings are based only on absolutes: time, weight & distance. They are able to adjust it somewhat for ease of victory & the like, but then it becomes subjective. It doesn't include other, intangible aspects that make horses great. E.g. it would rate Secretariat in terms of his peak performance (most probably the Belmont) without considering the fact that it was the 3rd leg of the US TC.

[@59bulldogman]

Just what was the jock on bullet train doing looking back like that?

[@tobydow1]

We've been hearing over here in Aus that there is some strong rumors circulating that BC isn't coming over. Rest assured people she leaves Wednesday, enjoy having the best 2 horses at the same carnival wish we could entice Frankel down here

[@MrConnolly25]

I think every jockey apart from Nolen in the race wished they were on Black Caviar,Bated Breath is unlikely to run instead just running the Kings Stand which probably makes an easy task even easier! Most UK punters obviously feel the earlier 1/2 was free money,she could yet start a lot shorter than the 2/7 availible now which pretty much tells you what the UK punters really think of her.I can't wait to see her & i hear a lot of Aussies have also come over,i reckon were in for a treat.

[@tobydow1]

@Ozzieinlucca, the Dam's name is Monnashee's, which is apparently a mountain range or a mountain somewhere. And Shuswap ha something to do with it, can't remember what it is exactly as another part owner named her. Being by Pins I wanted Pinyourearsback as our manager had the operation, but he got shitty when I put that in haha

[@leedelaney70]

......a multiple Grp1 winner incl the DC International in Washington USA. He did that as a spring 3yo. He also beat champion sprinter Todman, the Black Caviar of his day, in a Grp1 race over 6f. Todman was a 5x Grp1 winner who won 10/12. Todman was 2nd to Tulloch & his other defeat was when he broke down, which put him out for nearly 2 years. He had Grp1 sprint wins by margins of 8l (Golden Slipper & Randwick Guineas) & 6l (Champagne Stks). 7 of his 10 wins were track records. So Tulloch......

[@peace-now]

That's what I thin also. I think he is a phenomenon of a lifetime. The last one like this was the great Dan Patch. You should look him up. He was a standardbred. I reckon that two flat galloping racehorses rate alongside Frankel, namely Eclipse and Kincsem. Kincsem won 54/54 - not a bad effort and Eclipse won 18/18, and nearly every racehorse is descended from him. Seeing a horse like Frankel is a once in a century event.

[@MrConnolly25]

Ortensia has been heavily backed recently but yesterdays weather update kinda bamboozled me,i thought her breeding suggested she'd handle it but Messara's comments rather concerned me.I backed her a while ago as her win in Dubai was quite brilliant & though Messara has said he wants her riding closer i feel as long as the draw is ok she must win! the form of Bated Breath & Sole Power strogly indicates Ortensia is really a 'good thing' The draw is very important for all horses if it rains though.

[@MrDraven37]

It would certainly make the race more interesting than if they both were to face up against the same competition that they have already beaten. It'd be a case of can Frankel get the distance while still being able to produce the devastating form that he has been doing, against a horse like SYT who at 2000m showed how good he is.

[@tobydow1]

Guys in England, did BC get any press coverage in her arrival

[@MrDraven37]

Just saw on the news a quick report about Ascot, both how BC is fairing and SYT's win.. the reporter did show what the weather is like, doesn't look a lot different to how it was here today in Melbourne, cold and wet all day.. Can any of the Euros advise how the track at Royal Ascot is looking? Does it look like rain for the rest of the week? Hopefully BC should handle the track conditions.

[@bgardiner2000]

You're right in essence toby, although Soul has improved considerably in the last 6 months. He won a nice race in Dubai before he went to the UK and is a proven wet track performer. He has a good win over Buffering on heavy going up the straight 6 at Flemington in the G2 Danehill. On the DJ going there's more likely a 5-6L advantage.

[@leedelaney70]

Yes mate sadly for us Aussies Ortensia sweated up and had run her race before she got onto the track. The special comments commentator (ex champion jockey who's name escapes me) said she was visibly agitated in the mounting yard and instantly doubted her winning. She usually runs well fresh but she ran way below her best. Never mind it happens. She's been on the quick "back up" 4 times in her career for 2 wins & 2 placings so I hope they run again Saturday.

[@leedelaney70]

That's precisely what I thought. He was able to run a faster final 3f sectional due to the fact the first 5f was makedly slower so in essence that race (the QEII) was not a true indication of his ability. He was simply able to outsprint his rivals at the end of the race due to his superior ability as a sprinter, not a miler. Black Caviar did the same thing in the CF Orr Stks over 7f. They went relatively slow early on & she simply outsprinted her rivals running her last 600m in 33.39 (dead)

[@MrDraven37]

I'm curious about this so maybe some of the Euros can answer it, but what are Frankels chances of being able to get the distance of the Arc? I assume if he is to do it, it would have to be this year, I can see this would be his last season, but does his breeding say he can do it, and how specialized is the UK industry now? ie. you have sprinters, milers, and stayers.. I heard it said the other day that people should forget about the 3 yr old triple crown over there.

[@leedelaney70]

In 2002 you had the likes of Northerly (twice Cox Plate winner & multiple Grp1 winner), Fields of Omagh (twice Cox Plate winner & twice Cox Plate placed), Republic Lass (2 Grp1 wins incl Aust Oaks), Distinctly Secret (Grp1 winner & 6 times Grp1 placed), Freemason (4 time Grp1 winner incl Aust Derby & BMW), Rain Guage (Grp2 winner twice Grp1 & 2 placed), Pentastic (2 Grp2 wins & 4 time Grp1 placed), Dash For Cash (2 Grp1 wins 4 times Grp1 placed), Universal Prince (4 Grp1 wins & 4 Grp1 placings)

[@MrDraven37]

Cont. was the field that Frankel faced that good? Not taking away from his run, all I've heard so far is that was amazing, but as I understood SeaBird II got his rating racing against the best Arc field ever.. oh, well going to check the races out now, looking forward to it, even after hearing Ortensia failed to produce.

[@tobydow1]

Wednesday at Newcastle boys my mighty filly Shuswap is second up. The horse that won the second race today at Rosehill finished just in front of her on her return so the form reads well. She has missed a bit of work though because of the poor weather we have had but as usual fingers crossed.

[@ThefightingCelt]

I don't have the slightest problem with the Cox Plate. Definitely worthy of its Group 1 status - and for me, the top horse race in Australia. A quality event. Now, as for the Melbourne Cup - well, to me, that is just the Ebor Handicap with bells and whistles attached - oh, and much more prize money.

[@watchinginawe]

Good to hear she's on schedule, toby. You Aussies aren't going to give us updates every 15 minutes, are you? Just joking, we're looking forward to her arrival too. Looks like Frankel will run in the Queen Anne on Tues 19th and BC runs on Saturday 23rd in the Diamond Jubilee. Can't remember a time when there's been such a buzz around racing over here. Should be good.

[@joshuadoherty562]

He did mate, in fact even at the start of the season there were some calls for him to lose the ride, people say horses aren't machines, but neither are jockeys. She is still undefeated as if Frankel, and i don't think either should cop the flack they've had.

[@MrDraven37]

I haven't even seen Frankel's race yet mate, nor the Kings Stand. The races were on in the late hours over here, then I was up at 6.40am, leaving for work at 7am, just got back home at 6pm, first chance I have had to watch them. I did see an article though, Frankel won by 11 lengths?! Wow, definitely impressive. I did read as well that TF have given him a provisional rating of 147, making him the best ever? Is that right? Just going to watch it now but better than SeaBird II? Cont.

[@leedelaney70]

Ahhh the Manikato of course. She won it first up from a spell. The 1200m race got under my guard !!

[@MrDraven37]

Cont. They are hoping she has a nice horse ahead of her to follow into the race. So it will be interesting, but our sprinters have always seemed to do well over there. And her trainer has learned from past experience. They sent Ortensia over straight from Dubai, to let her acclimatise and get her used to your tracks and adjust. They traveled over 2 years ago with another horse Alverta who lost 50kgs on the way over, so they have learned from that.

[@leedelaney70]

What is the field looking like for Frankel's next assignment in The Queen Anne at Royal Ascot ? Is Excelebration going around against him again ?

[@ThefightingCelt]

One thing we can be 100% certain of is this: Frankel's Queen Anne opponents will be of a much higher standard than Black Caviar's opposition in the DJ.

[@leedelaney70]

From TheFightingCelt to TheBackTracker to TheTeachingCelt and now ThePsychicCelt. Jack of all trades......master of none

[@leedelaney70]

I think it was Arsenal who said you can get evens for the Frankel - Black Caviar double. That is the bet of the carnival imo

[@joshuadoherty562]

Ahh I only looked at the video and it looks like mud was flying everywhere must be the old film, I'm only half way through the book like but I know he nearly got beat in the St James palace stakes, but then he apparently lost his footing and fell about 8 lengths back or something. Good read. thanks for clearing it up celt.