2012 Juddmonte International Stakes - Frankel

Frankel answers all the questions that were anked about his step up to 10 furlongs at York.

[@GBeret83]

First time Frankel ever stepped up in trip beyond a mile was in this race, and he went up another 2-1/2f in distance, and in doing so barely broke a sweat in burrying a G1 Lockinge Stakes & G1 Champion Stakes winner(Farrh), and a 3-time G1 Coronation Cup, G1 Breeders Cup Turf, & G1 Sheema Classic winner(St Nicholas Abbey). This horse possessed ability that no other horse on the planet possessed, at least during his era of racing. Anyone who can't see that are nothing more than people that are trying to make a futile case for saying there were other horses during this same period that were better than Frankel that in reality were clearly not half as talented as this freak of nature. Those same people know who I'm talking about and what other horses I'm talking about.

[@owen7185]

Agreed 💯

[@owen7185]

he would have won the Arc no sweat. This champion would run through fire if asked too. We never saw anywhere near the bottom of the well. Simply the best

[@peace-now]

Incredible. I have never seen a horse like this one. He is probably underrated at 147. Even the great Secretariat and Dr Fager never won like this.

[@billykellard7466]

Bet Frankel is distraught that some internet knobjockeys dont like him.

[@watchagainnowandthen]

Beyond words totally fantastic

[@edkaley1]

Gracious of you to say that. I always thought Dancing Brave, Secretariat, Brigadier Gerrard , Seattle Slew, Sea Bird, Ribot and a few others were great, but Frankel is something else. I am sure he would have had no problem in running over a mile and half and would have done exactly the same to the opposition.

[@csracingreport2024]

U may be right ; It's as interesting as what would have happened if Mill Reef & Brigadier Gerard had "re-matched '" @ 10 and / or 12F ; Based on raw T. Form figures , he's the fastest, and against his middle distance rivals in training @ the time , it's plausible he beats those horses ; not so sure in a Legends Race, ideally on a fair & firm track, stacked against the "true greats " w/ the variables of strategy & post @ 12 F I've theorized he loses ; Better chance @10F ; The unknown of never going 11/2 Miles like Brigadier did , is the mysterious part ; it's possible Henry Cecil's nerves were stable enough 2 entertain 10F, but didn't want to stress out and chance going 12 ; People here in the US un-conditionally believe American horses are un- conditionally better than horses from Europe , but I'm not one of those ; it's unfairly 2 say that given the surface issues , w/ the only way 2 accurately know is to settle it on each surface 2 see who's the most versatile

[@GBeret83]

Like most racing fans, I would've loved for Frankel to be given a chance to show what he could do at 12f in the Arc, too. The way he stayed 10-1/2f at York leaves little doubt in my mind that 12f at Longchamp was doable. That said, it's hard to cast sticks and stones at Sir Henry Cecil when he's said from day 1 of the 2012 season that the Champion Stakes has always been the primary end of season target. The Arc's always been wishful thinking, and the Breeders Cup was never on Frankel's agenda.

[@MegaVector2011]

Thanks. It was an amazing day, I was speaking to people that had come over from America to especially see him. I loved the way he trotted up to a capacity crowd like a dressage horse, knowing he had destroyed the field, ears pricked without a care in the world. He was different. Had a ruthless determination to not just beat, but destroy the opposition whether he bolts out of the stalls like the 2000 Guineas and destroys them, or just lets them get on with it and beats them from behind.

[@sp319]

He's more than a good horse, he is in the top 3 MD horses in the world right now. You remind me of people trying to tell me Black Caviar Isn't all she's cracked up to be because she struggled against a g2 field. The form goes beyond the Arc you idiot if you think Orfevre was at his best in the Arc then you should see a doctor. Like I said, don't pick and choose what you believe, whether it be Sam Walker or Soumillon

[@flyrobertfly45]

Everything else? No, one thing he said I believe is that his horse got extremely tired and stopped in the last 150m. That is ONE thing I believe him on, however you don't believe him. My opinion is Orfevre is a good horse, but certainly not a great horse. My opinion also is I would not rate any Arc winner or runner up in the last 25 years lower than the top 2 in the 2012 Arc. I would have to all the way back to 30 years ago to 1982 when Akiyda won to compare to this 2012 Arc.

[@flyrobertfly45]

Orfevre got extremely tired and "stopped in the last 150m" as his jock said. I don't think he stopped in the last 150m because of his quirkiness at all. He stopped because he got extremely tired. He happened to be beaten by a G2 filly at best. If he wins by a neck, it is still the lowest rated Arc in 25 years according to Racing Post, and I would agree.

[@flyrobertfly45]

Coulda woulda shoulda...Solemia is a G2 filly at best.The facts remain He simply got extremely tired in the last 150m as his jock said and got beat by a G2 filly at best. I agree with the Racing Post rating this the lowest rated Arc in over 20 years. Orfevre got beat by a G2 filly at best, and Orfevre finished 11th far back in the Tenno Sho.

[@protarget1]

I didnt know that. I thought all the quaratine rules were the same as the uk. .I cant see Orfevre still left in the champ. CDA, Camelot, Saonois & Nathaniel are still declared As for walto, If I see the Dog Turd's name at the bottom of a post, I ignore it. The same old Bullshit would probably be spouted. LOL nusual Bullshit ;-)

[@simonpicket7245]

weather is a mixed bag mate some rain some sun, im guessing the ground will be good to soft tbh! Ascot dries up pretty quickly so its dependent on the 2 days preceding saturday which is too far in advance to guess. Hopefully it will be dry and the ground will be good! Have you seen Frankels morning gallop ... put 20 lengths on Midsummer Sun (not a great horse) barely being asked. SHC said he could have gone back and done it all again! they are really fine tuning him for an epic performance!

[@an08p]

Unbelievable horse! To produce an acceleration like this in a 10F race is just incredible.

[@TheLovwomen]

watched this horse on the gallops he knew how good he was so much talent it was ridiculous !!!!!!

[@sp319]

Yeah mate racing post is great for form and ratings comparisons. Timeform make it a bit difficult for you to get hold of their races so RP is definitely handy. I wish I got the actual post it looks like a good read

[@flyrobertfly45]

The Champion Stakes is coming up much much stronger than the Arc, which I happen to agree with Racing Post stating it was the lowest rated Arc in 20 years.

[@jeffthebus]

very sad to see Henry Cecil looking and sounding so ill. I'm sure we all pray for a full recovery

[@sp319]

Yeah is it looking like the ground will be pretty soft at the moment ?

[@sp319]

Yeh mate apparently it's another 65 grand if they want to supplement Orfevre for the Champion I don't think he is currently entered.

[@owen7185]

This is poetry in motion, he should have raced in the Arc

[@sp319]

Yeah I see he is running this week but I'm not sure what he'll go for after this g2 this weekend . Hasn't he earned a spot in the MC yet?

[@protarget1]

I left the page active before it was deleted I came back to it 5 hrs later. I tried to refresh the page and got the message "You do not have permission to view this video has it has been deemed private by the publisher. Then then the private videio sign came up. I closed the browser then came back and found it had disapeard. Probably due to the Trolls Walto BCoz & wheels ;-)

[@flyrobertfly45]

So he "stopped and got very tired" in the last 150m due to his jockeys bad ride? Did he move too soon? Cause he sure didnt get very tired in the last 150m due to his quirkiness at all.

[@flyrobertfly45]

Frankel,Black Caviar,Sea the Stars,Goldikova,Galileo,Fantastic Light,Montjeu,Daylami,Dancing Brave,Brigadier Gerard,Mill Reef,Sea Bird,Nijinsky,Alleged,Rock of Gibraltar,Ribot,Makybe Diva,Sunline,etc are all great horses. Orfevre is not anywhere near to these great horses. As for Japanese greats, I wouldn't rank him anywhere close to Narita Brian,TM Opera O,Deep Impact,El Condor Pasa,Vodka. He is not great like those.

[@regginald81]

I hear Gatewood is running in the Herbert Power on Saturday. I backed him for the MC at 200/1 in July. If he doesn't win Saturday does he have any other chances to get the weight he needs to make the MC?

[@stephenfry9140]

The undisputed champion of the world ! & for those of you who believed Frankel would never stay 1.5 miles just look at this race as Queally had a job pulling Frankel up after the race! The best race horse we will ever see. Henry Cecil & Frankel the immortals!

[@MrWalto69]

@ adam pongrac I wouldn't be shocked mate if they did pull him out if the track gets heavy , i mean they are already sweating bullets anyways worrying about the weather , see their problem is they thought it would be all sunshine and rainbows , nice little field , perfect weather and track with Bullet train helping him , but now they it's going to piss down over there and CDA thrives on heavy conditions and Frankel has never raced on it ,they'll crack and pull him out , all too save their asses,

[@MrWalto69]

@adam pongrac The Frankel fans are packing shit because they have quality horses in the race and the ground will be a mud hole which Frankel has never raced on , + cockyness could lead to a loss , Hispacemaker Bullet train should get him over the line but if the horses fuck up then It's a 50-50 race , Frankel fans are just biting their nails because they don't have a joy ride with this race like they did with all his other ones,

[@MrWalto69]

@ASupremeOwl Dude Kingston town couldn't even win the guineas , you claim you know a lot about racing yet you fail to realize that Pierros jockey missed the start and had to climb to the front and he was out on his feet at the straight and don't forget he lost to Black caviars half brother All too hard who is unbeaten in Melbourne and his run in the straight was outstanding , his a great horsae All too hard , that was a 1600 did you see a pacemaker in that race ? of course not we don';t usethem

[@MrWalto69]

@flyrobertfly45 He'll never go out of England dude they won't take the risk and whats with this " his the best so every horse should go to him" comment by some woman ? Caviar is rated the best sprinter but she had to travel to Englands sprinters , why didn;'t Society rock or KRypton factor or Moonlight cloud come over here ? exactly just another petty excuse for Frankels no show in different countries act haha ,

[@MrWalto69]

NOW SHOWING, THE AMAZING FRANKELS "NO SHOW OVERSEAS ACT" THEY WILL SAY HE WILL BE IN FRANCE BUT THE NEXT DAY MAGICALLY IS STAYING IN ENGLAND , AMAZING TALENT , IS RATED BY TIMEFORM RATING AS THE BEST HORSE EVER BY RATINGS , BEATS PACEMAKERS AND THE SAME HORSES OVER AND OVER AND CAN'T TRAVEL , THAT SHOULD BE A MEME HAHA,

[@flyrobertfly45]

Horses drift right or left when they are very tired. I would agree with Soumillon in saying that he stopped in the last 150m due to being very tired. I don't think it was his quirkiness at all in the Arc that got him beat, it was simply getting very tired. That is my opinion

[@MrWalto69]

Didn't know the world was England , best in the world means you have to beat the world , where's his overseas stats? anyone ? no answer ? thats what i thought haha , once he races CDA in the stakes then he should race CDA in france oh shit his hanging up the boots , the weakest way to go out ,

[@MrWalto69]

@sp319 Don't need to dude you just did it for me by mentioning me YET again , even when i'm not on a video you and your boyfriends mention me haha , stress less man i know you'll eventually reply , your that in love with me ,

[@protarget1]

Totaly agree regarding the form of CDA + Nathaniel. SNA got within 1/2L of both finishing 2nd & 3rd respectively. Planteur was 1/2L off CDA but was 18L behind Frankel in the Judd. On any form line Frankel has the beating of both by, as I have said before, an easy 7L. Only hope CDA & Nathaniel have is if Frankel is withdrawn due to the heavy ground LOL

[@MrWalto69]

@protarget1 Best ever you say ? is he the only horse in your world? did Secretariat , Phar Lap , Man O war , See the stars, Ribot , Native Dancer , Kelso Carbine did they all not exist ?

[@horsepony3]

his combined winning distance in his racing career was CLOSE to 100 lengths? Take a look at Man O' War. He won ONE RACE by 100 lengths.

[@fairbeech]

Once again it seems as if some people don't know how to enjoy greatness when it arrives. Why dwell on the Arc or staying 2 miles when it is there for all to see that 1 mile-1 mile 2f are his trips. We should learn to cherish and enjoy more instead of looking for comparisons or new trips. Sir Henry knows 1m 2f + with that type of speed is not in his range. However, if ever a horse was made to hammer the US in the Breeder's Cup, with that assured lightening fast pace then it would be Frankel....

[@tizfrreecharm]

"...i wasn't a fan until this year..." - And in eight months you learned everything about British/Western World racing you needed to take a position? Wow! How did you do that? That Broadway Bobby's namesake is, like the man said, "The undisputed champion of the world" is, well, undisputable. You do know that, except for his Breeders' Cup flop, Dancing Brave is still highly considered, yes? "Miles better ..."? Maybe but will fans of such immortals as Ribot, Nijinsky et all agree?

[@GBeret83]

I'm certainly not knocking Dancing Brave because he was a fantastic horse in his own right. Really impressive when he won the Arc in 1986. That being said, I watched Manila run Dancing Brave completely off of his feet about a month later at Santa Anita in the Breeders Cup Turf, and I don't think Manila at his very best would come to within 5 or 6 lengths of Frankel. JMO.

[@wawawutosnftbs8922]

Don't you just wish HC should have been more brave with this magnificent horse n ran him in the Arc and even a breeders cup he would have gone 1.4m without a shadow of a doubt

[@yazmazoo]

Wow Wee...That was better than watchng porn.... He made St Nicholas abbey look like a seller horse..., bearing in mind St Nicholas abbey is a multi Group 1 winner, he won the breeds cup 2011 and was close to winning in 2012... I don't think we will ever see a better horse than frankel in our life time, HE MUST BE THE GREATEST. The total combined winning distance in his racing career was close to 100 length. There aren't enough words in the English dictionery to describe how good this horse was.

[@CharlesOlney23]

If you're opposing Frankel then you're doing so with this in mind: in his last race on the round course at Ascot Frankel only won by three quarters of a length and the last time he met soft ground he lugged home by just half a length. Throw these statistics together and Frankel's scatting on paper-thin ice. I still believe that Frankel will win but this will be tough against two of the world's best on a track that both have put up career bests. The bet? Frankel to win by under 2.5 lengths.

[@CharlesOlney23]

On form lines Frankel has the advantage. Nathaniel beet Farhh by half a length in the Eclipse who was beaten 7 by Frankel in the Juddmonte. Cirrus Des Aigles beet St Nicholas Abbey by a neck in Dubai and again that one was 7 lengths behind Frankel in the Juddmonte. The only other form line I can see is that Twice Over was beaten 10 lengths by Cirrus Des Aigles in this race last year and 13 in the Juddmonte. But there is danger for Frankel...

[@CharlesOlney23]

Saturday's going to be the best days racing in a long time. There's the UK and world's best racehorse, France's best, Germany's best/Europe's second best three year old and the UK's second best all in one race. In the opener three Ascot Gold Cup winners do battle along with two other Goodwood Cup winners. The second holds the 'Abbaye and Sprint Cup winners. The third race involves three Oaks winners, and the QE2 the world's best miler. Even the finale is a 29 runner handicap! Pure racing gold...

[@sp319]

A g1 is because he has met horses like Nathaniel and Frankel and SYT. What If he was in Aus, you think he'd be meeting that level of competition? Lol! He'd fuckin piss up. I've said to you before Farhh has proven himself only two lengths behind SYT, is that not good enough for you bro? You must not think SYT is very good then?! Go and learn a bit about handicapping then we'll talk ratings mate until then I'm afraid you aren't in a position to judge

[@sp319]

@walto69 No Walto I just couldn't help but embarrass you again when you came out with that comment. I can ignore whenever I want and for how ever long I want. Farhh is rated higher because he has performed better, I've told you to go and learn about handicapping you are just showing your lack of knowledge. Farhh is meeting far better horses than he would in Australia, the reason he hasn't won

[@protarget1]

For Those interested in the going at Ascot theres a daily update on the Ascot web site. Click on Race Times and Runners. The going report and the projected weather forcast is there. Quickie for the Troll Walto who keeps getting facts wrong . Its not TF ratings but the IFHA rating that puts CDA 2nd best in the world. They BC have laughably rated 6th. They also have DB highest rated at 141, Frankel 140. The prince dosn't agree. TF has BC rated world 2nd at 136 with CDA rated at 133 with SYT

[@CharlesOlney23]

... as one of the world's best horses. Last season he won a very strong Group 3 before losing by a neck in the Grand Prix de Saint Cloud by subsequent Arc favourite Saraphina. He then won three Group races in a row by 3,8 and 10 lengths. Only beeten a neck in the Prix Dollar when giving 4ib to Byword and then beet So You Think and Snow Fairy in last year's Champion Stakes. This year he's won the Sheema Classic, Prix Ganay and Dollar in style. This is why he's rated so highly by the IFHA.

[@CharlesOlney23]

Cirrus Des Aigles is the IFHA's second highest rated racehorse because of his form this past two years. The horse took a few years to really hit his peek. As a two and three year old he was pretty consistent at Listed level. He ran 17 times as a three year old winning 6 including two Group races and never being out of the first three and only beaten a length in the 2009 Hong Kong Vase. In 2010 he didn't run badly when globe trotting. But it has been these last two years that have seen him emerge

[@CharlesOlney23]

I read an interview with Tom Queally and Sir Henry Cecil where they said that on soft ground Frankel is so good that he should be able to plough through it. However, Cecil did say that he would be all out at sea on heavy. The horse likes better ground and by the looks of things its going to be an absolute bog at Ascot, far worse than at Longchamp the other week. And against mud lovers Cirrus Des Aigles and Nathaniel it will be a big ask. I think we would all see even a 1 length victory as good.

[@CharlesOlney23]

There are 8 declared for the Champion. Apart from Frankel there's: Cirrus Des Aigles the Champion Stakes and 3 time Group 1 winner who is also the best racehorse in France and second best horse in the world. Nathaniel the King George, Eclipse winner who like Cirrus Des Aigles - all but unbeatable on anything softer than good and only once outside first two. Pastorious the German Derby winner and Europe's 2nd best 3YO. Ridasiyna. Bullet Train. Master Of Hounds. Declaration Of War. All = Good Race

[@flyrobertfly45]

We can go over the many reasons of why he may have gotten that tired in the last 150m. I don't know exactly. Could it have been the move wasn't timed right? Could it have been the heavy ground(I doubt it, it seemed only him and Solemia handled the heavy ground very well). Maybe his wide draw, but thats the way he runs. Maybe the move was too big and he just got tired. Deep Impact won at 3200m and got tired in the last 150m to lose the Arc also.

[@sp319]

Yeah I know what you're saying but the fact that he's got a strong 2 mile in Japan would lead you to believe 12f would pose no problem. SYT got the Arc trip well but couldn't get 2 mile in Aus on a similar track to Japan's. It's his proven stamina along with the way he got to the front that makes it difficult to accept he got tired. Have you ever seen a horse hit the front with such purpose only to fall to bits? It happens but it was extreme

[@flyrobertfly45]

1 + 2=3........Horse Racing does NOT work out that way as you well know. Just because a horse won at a longer distance in Jpn or anywhere for that matter, that doesn't mean he can't get extremely tired going 12f....We all wish racing worked out that way but it never does and it never will. You know very well that just because a horse wins at a longer distance, that doesn't mean they can't get very tired at a shorter distance.

[@flyrobertfly45]

Oh Moses! The fact remains he got beat by a G2 filly in the lowest rated Arc in over 20 years. I believe him as much as I believe Keiren Fallon. I believe him when he says his horse got extremely tired and stopped the last 150m because that is exactly what happened, and I believe him if he says he is up with the best he has ridden, just as I believe Fallon saying that Russian Rhythm was better than Ouija Board,Islington,Dylan Thomas,Hurricane Run & Bosra Sham.

[@flyrobertfly45]

Oh so that the jock said he "stopped in the last 150m" and lost to a G2 filly and it being lowest rated Arc in 20 yrs means less than the jock giving an opinion on the best he ever rode. That should mean as much as Keiren Fallon saying that Russian Rhythm was the best he ever rode. I would rank Ouija Board, Islington,Hurricane Run,Dylan Thomas and Bosra Sham all better than R.R. Does that matter or should I just take Fallon's opinion?

[@protarget1]

CDA is rated world 2nd best MD horse behind Frankel. But IMHO Orfevre is better than CDA. In his 14 starts the going has been firm in all but 3 races.1 S, 1. Race before the Arc was G/S Then Arc soft of heavy. I think the ground beat him. The winner loves soft ground. The time was 7secs slower than /Sandard & and 13secs off Danedreams TR So even accounting for the ground the initial pace was't that quick.

[@sp319]

Why do you keep repeating yourself. Is that all you have? I've told you I agree with that and asked you what else Soumillon said about the horse, and you haven't answered interestingly. He said that Orfevre is the best horse he has ever ridden. Now, who should I take more notice of, you telling me over and over that he has lost to a g3 filly (sorry g2 filly now) like it means something, or should I listen to the jockey who says hes the best hes ever ridden

[@regginald81]

I think the main issue is they read articles and take it in without ever forming their own opinion. She is not bad and pretty close to the top level in Europe. The thing is she just stayed on again as went past Orfevre as he was tiring/being mental, its not like the main pack were closing in on him in the last furlong either. Looking forward to Frankel too, should be getting some rain over the weekend and then a couple of days next week with showers. I expect it to be good/soft on the day

[@simonpicket7245]

for me Orfervre has the class to be as good if not better than Nathaniel, CDA, Danedream however he just doesn't have the mental aptitude to be consistent ... i cant decide whether he was tired or whether he just idled (leaning towards this) .... very reminiscent of Frankel in the 2000 guineas and SJP, however Frankel matured and has not idled once in his 4yr old career. That being said i think the current MD rankings are spot on 1. Frankel by a mile, 2. CDA, Dandream, and Nathaniel

[@sp319]

Reg mate some people are so basic in the way they interpret races I can't understand it. I don't think Solemia is that bad either, and she loves that ground doesnt she? To take the form literally and try and make out Orfevre couldn't keep up with a g3 filly without caring about the all the conditions is stupid. Can't wait for Frankel mate not long now.., how's the weather over the next week looking any idea ?

[@sp319]

Lol good reply haha. So was St Nicholas Abbey, and Camelot. They were a lot worse than 2nd to the group 2 filly, go and tell everyone how shit they are now. Seeing as you agree with Sam Walker so much i'm sure you'll also agree with his observation that Orfevre's 129 RPR may not be his limit. Orfevre is absolute top quality, and going by your useless reply i'm sure you realise that

[@simonpicket7245]

I agree that turn of foot in the Arc was monstrous, and as quick as i have seen Frankel shift ... but i guess the major difference is that he nearly collapsed after just doing it for a furlong, whereas Frankel just keeps going and going and going and going and.... well you get it!! Yeah i guess its the same for every horse i dont think CDA or Nathaniel particularly like soft ground, just that they are equally as good ... i think the same can be said for Frankel and therefore the winning margin

[@protarget1]

I would'nt worry about the ground with Frankel. I would be concerned about the others keeping with him. LOL. Frankel can go in any ground. The Ascot run when he got within 0.69 of of the TR, the going was soft side of good. Thats why why he got the 147 rating. What he did in that race, which all agreed,even PM ;-) It was the finest performance ever seen on a racecourse, Frankel ran the 4f to 1f at a pace, the equivelent of doing a 5f sprint from a standing in 56secs on soft going. Amazing :-)

[@simonpicket7245]

its currently soft at the moment ... i think both horses have progressed massively since that race tbh. Also this was at a time where Frankel did not settle at all! I still think he will put them to the sword. Just watched Orfervre's run at Hanshin? WTF was the jockey doing?! in the Arc he showed a great turn of foot but he looks like a horse with an attitude problem ... or perhaps he just burned himself out!

[@sp319]

That's right Protarget once these two have gone it could be boring times haha. Hopefully Camelot is a star next year and I think in Aus we may be seeing the start of a proper champion in Pierro. I'm hoping he bolts in in this weekends Guineas I think he could end up a low to mid 130's rated colt, maybe better than SYT. Atlantic Jewel hopefully comes back too but they have got big shoes to fill.

[@sp319]

Yeah neither can I Simon. Even in that race though the half length doesnt do the difference in class shown between them justice. Frankel was still on the bridle ears pricked cruising next to Nathaniel as he was being scrubbed along. It's hard to really take anything away from a first race though isn't it? Did he have his mind on the job that day etc? How heavy was it in that race exactly? Does the forecast look really bad? Is there big rains on the way in the next 7 days?

[@sp319]

Yeah I hope Camelot comes back more mature and consistent. I don't quite subscribe to the idea that he's no good that a lot of people are saying, but at the same time I don't believe AOB when he still tries to tell the media he's the best he's ever trained. I look forward to seeing Camelot back in action, it seems to me like he travels very easily and has a lot of class but I can't really work the rest of him out.

[@protarget1]

Yep you did Hes not in the Champion and will have to supplement. Would it be worth it taking Frankel on. The 2 definates will be CDA and Nathaniel. I cant see Camelot taking his chance. But way the connections were taking after the arc it looks certain they are going to keep him in training. They may go for it. Maybe next year when he matures we will see a champion everyone thought he was.

[@sp319]

@simonpicket You going to Ascot are ya mate? That'll be unreal. I hope they can get Orfevre's quarantine sorted out i'd love to see him there. I reckon Orfevre's got a touch of freak about him and if he kept his head screwed on he could topple CDA. I hope Frankel is let go a bit earlier too mate I reckon the Juddmonte could have been 10 lengths if he was asked to go when SNA and Farhh were

[@simonpicket7245]

you are right SP this years Arc winner has the lowest racing of an Arc winner EVER! Bottom line is the Arc was run in a quagmire as usual and therefore suits very average horses who's physique suits the ground .... How many Arc's have been won by nobodies whilst the fancied horses all drop away because of horrific racing conditions. There are very few horses that can excel over fast and soft ground! The Champs stakes will be a much stronger line up and test as the ground will suit all (hopefully

[@vaughnthomas9774]

which idiot says Dancing Brave would beat him. you've lost the plot son. Nothing in the past would beat him, you can tell by his action just how much better he is than everything and anything there has been in the past. i wasn't a fan until this year and thought there had been better. but now i agree that people that say so and so would beat him are just scratching around for any silly excuses. Miles better than any flat horse there has ever been. fact

[@flapperjj95]

Simply Amazing! Incredible! Words fail me. The Best in the world and the best ever!

[@yazmazoo]

What danger?? The total combined winning distance in all of Frankel's career races is close to 100 length... I would have loved to see him running in the arc this year, no doubt what would have happened, Honestly I think this horse was kidnaped by aliens when he was a pony and transformed his racing ability into something from another planet..

[@adampongrac3340]

Walto I hear ya mate. If they were to scratch Frankel not just us but I reckon all Frankel and racing fans would be extremely disappointed. Very lame indeed....we will see A but SURELY not.?? And I see bullet train is in the race again.?An Charles I do realize CDA is a serious horse watched when he bet SYT. Impressive. Was just saying ratings can be a little dodgy...

[@adampongrac3340]

So your saying CDA is the second best horse in the world... With only 3 group 1 wins out of 46 ?.. 16-16-5 with 9 unplaced.? This is why I believe the world ratings body is very questionable..??? So let's say IF? he was to beat Frankel this weekend would the ratings put him on top of the world as No. 1. ???????

[@simonpicket7245]

Soft ground would not be a problem ... Frankel has the largest feet in the yard... Size 7.5 and horses with big feet do better on soft ground ....his galloping action is long with high uplift again more suited to soft ground... They will not risk him getting hurt on heavy ground though! I seem to remember he nearly broke the track record in the QA on good to soft

[@protarget1]

Looks like Camelot will not be running again this season. Good news he's recovering from well from the Colic Surgery done on thursday. Let hope he comes back as a 4yr old and prove he is a champion. Because with Frankel retiring and doubt over BC racing next year, it's going to be with boring next season

[@protarget1]

Totally agree with you view about Orfevre. The only winner in the Arc was the ground. Solemia before the arc had ran 4 out of 5 races at Longchamp. Prvious form is run 12 won 4, only G win was a G2. and best form has been in soft ground. On frankel dont you mean he was in cruise mode down to 1.5f, and he was also running into a gusting headwind around 20/25 mph ;--) lol

[@flyrobertfly45]

Go ahead and say he is better than Camelot and SNA, he sure was in this Arc. They all sure did get beat by a G2 filly. None of your comments will change the facts that he got beat by a G2 filly at best, and nothing will change the fact that I agree with the Racing Post that this is the lowest rated Arc in 20 years even with the 2 Ballydoyle horses getting beat by a G2 filly.

[@sp319]

Yeah Orfevre is rather quirky isn't he. That race where he drops right out is bizarre. I reckon he's got serious talent though the way he cruised to the front in the Arc impressed me a lot. I wish Frankel was going to the Breeders cup that'd be a great way to finish off but it looks unlikely I guess we'll have to wait and see

[@protarget1]

If you look at camelot races when he's asked to quicken he start's to wander which to me is a sign of a big baby. After all the Arc was only his 7th race. The connections after the race said there's alot more to come from Camelot. Lets hope so. Because without BC and Frankel around its going to be boring lol.

[@simonpicket7245]

Yeah will be interesting to see tbh in his 1st race with Nathaniel it was a real slogging match on soft ground. However I'm pretty sure he may have improved since then ;) I do think though that it will make it a much closer race. A shame really because I would have loved to have seen him put 10lL on them all

[@sp319]

Lol it got deleted I think mate or comments disabled. The same that happened with the 2012 Sussex video. It's a blessing mate to not have to educate Walto daily anymore. There's still no shortage of idiots though is there lol? Cant wait for the Champion stakes mate sounds like it'll be a top field for Frankel to cement his greatness. Hopefully he gives them a proper towelling

[@ASupremeOwl]

Manila wouldn't have got within 5 or 6 lengths of an in form Dancing Brave, DB was an absolute machine of a racehorse. He didn't travel to America very well and was hindered by dirt in his eye turning in at Santa Anita. That certainly wasn't the Dancing Brave that won the 86 Arc, Still the finest Arc ever assembled bar Sea Bird II's in 65. A phenomenal racehorse...

[@EmperorOfSilence]

different class. or maybe from a different planet. will go down as one of the if not the best racehorse in history.

[@sp319]

the IFHA raters put Farhh up to 2 pounds after he met Frankel, lol 2 pounds, and TF didnt touch him, and they are doing it to hype Frankel? How can they be doing it to hype Frankel if Frankel didnt get his highest rating in the Juddmonte? You're smart aren't you?

[@simonpicket7245]

Just to further add weight to the argument ... Orfevre ran his quickest sectional off 11.8s now for a12f horse in soft ground that is very quick! Frankel ran 11:05 and 11.45 in the juddmonte over 10.5f and on good ground .... Although he was given more of a restricted ride

[@regginald81]

Alright SP, does it ever feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall? Solemia ain't that bad, she beat Shareta earlier in the year who was many people's fancy for the Arc this year. She just got the perfect ride and was more comfortable in the conditions than the others.

[@protarget1]

Ignore jamesm228 mate and don't reply to them ;-) There was another vid of this race which had over 230,000 views but was pulled because of the Trolls. Main Dog Turds were Mrwalto69, Blackcaviaroz with jamesm228 They are just like bad smells, ignore them and they will disapear :-)

[@sp319]

Nah I meant Orfevre mate apparently if he stays here too long he faces stricter quarantine conditions and can't take in a big race in Japan. Lol poor Walto can't go more than 2 days without hating. Ah well let's see how much fun he has talking to himself, it'll kill him lol

[@MegaVector2011]

Correct, You should have been there, I had to go and see the greatest. York is my home town, home racecourse. Never witnessed anything that even comes close to the presence and power of him on that day. I'm so sad he's retired. Best ever.

[@wavepattern]

Joshua...bitter??? that does not even make sense??? i am merely stating facts - something teh Frankel tragics cannot deal with. Ironically you are 'projecting' (common psychological disorder) your bitterness onto me! U r the one sooooo bitter. hahahahahaha

[@pharmboi86]

It was clearly the work of Gypsy Magic. If you watch the replay at the 150m mark you can see her 3rd row back playing her sorcery tricks as Orfevre gallops past!!! She must have had a good cackle as she handed her winning ticket over that day....

[@flyrobertfly45]

So you are saying that he stopped and got very tired in the last 150m and lost to a G2 filly because of his jockeys bad ride? Whatever the answer is, whether he wins by a neck or loses by a neck, this was the lowest rated Arc in 25 years.

[@regginald81]

I wouldn't want to take a single race run in terrible underfoot conditions as a realiable race to judge form by. 126 rated Sea Moon and SNA were 12+ lengths further back than Orfevre in the Arc - does this represent their actual ability?

[@protarget1]

Is'n the run of SNA in the Irish Champion, getting within 2L of SF inside the old track record a good enough form pointer of how many lengths Frankel would won that race by LOL ;-) Looks like Nataniel will take him on now with CDA champion

[@protarget1]

@sp319 Good vid but sorry mate that interview is no good to walto the TROLL. It's too inteligent and sensible for the Knob to understand. Walto's on a different planet & spends most hours playing with the Fairys & Goblins ;-)