2019-06-21 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Book 9) - Gem of the Self: The Ten Autos in Phoenix's Speech

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2019-06-21 NSFRI - Homer - Iliad (Book 9) - Gem of the Self: The Ten Autos in Phoenix's Speech
{ 20190621NSFRI } ( 2019-06-21_NSFRI_homer-iliad-bk9-phoenixs-speech.mp4 )
Original Locationarchive.org/de... LicenseCC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International LicensePlease Help Support the ProjectLike these videos? Please consider supporting Pierre, the NS, and our archiving activity by giving a small amount monthly to support our work.Go to noeticsociety.org and the 'Support the Project' section. Look for the Paypal or other link.We'd love it if you chose to 'Make this a monthly donation', as well -- rather than just one-time -- in whatever small amount is within your regular monthly budget.Thank you!SynopsisPierre and Barbara lead us through Book 9 of Homer's Iliad, using both the Balboa and the Fitzgerald translations, and Barbara's guide to the autos (stored as a PDF with the talk for 2019-04-26-NSFRI).We continue focusing on the use of αυτο (self) in this book, and especially on the section with Phoenix's speech, and its 10 occurrences of αυτο. Pierre asks us to consider (a) all 10 of these as a unity, (b) whether their presence and use gives the speech a higher dimension, and (c) whether the speech itself can be seen as a microcosm or core of the whole Iliad.HighlightsPierre puts two questions on the board:Among the uses of Self.. Which uses can best give us clues as to a more profound idea of the Self?What can we learn about Homer's design of the Iliad if we focus on Book 9?What makes book 9 a key book?What would the iliad be missing without book 9?1. thumos for self are in a passion2. yet in the self way he saved many of them..and comparing these first two examplesPhoenix's speech: What is he doing? Can it be said in some way to represent the entire work of the iliad?Is Phoenix playing a surrogate parent role towards achilles? Can you demonstrate that with some quotes?If so, then what is the pathologos that Phoenix has passed on to his “son” Achilles?(A pathologos: a recurring pattern of action based upon one's parent's own life)So we have to pull out from Phoenix's speech (about his early life) what the pathologos is...Reading carefully and considering the 10 selves ('αυτο's) in Phoenix's speechParallels between Phoenix and Achilles' pasts: similarities and differencesA first principle of philosophical midwifery: Things/events may vary, but relations stay the sameDiscussion (JeffS and DavidC) of how the men around achilles abide his sitting it out for a whileBack to Lord Phoenix's speech and the 10 self's: how do these 10 together give a higher dimension to his speech?the best one: “through the self way he saved”More InfoPierre Grimes and Philosophical MidwiferyThe Noetic SocietyThe Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society collection here on archive.org.

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The parallel to Patten is even closer. Pattern actually was hauled off Sicily because he went against the plan to come at the Germans in the flank who were battling the British at Messina. Instead he went off to irrelevant Palermo to win glory by taking the capital. And in so doing let British soldiers die unnecessarily. Thus self-glory will not win you renown unless you're careful. I can't agree that the "self" can be high or necessarily described as "pure". The self is a repudiation of divinity in the sense of rejecting its father. Meanwhile, men will go off to fight for loot and glory, but when confronted by the likelihood of death where loot matters not, they will fight for glory, that is to leave a legacy after death, of high renown, to their children and their tribe. Medals are symbols of that. The difference between these Achaeans and us is that the legacy of the father was explicit in every interaction: some men, like Diomedes, are described by their patronymic as often as their own name are used. In Archilleus' case, he was, like Phoenix, bought up by another man and his own father, Peleus, was suspected of involvement with his bother Phocus' death. Therefore he has a reason to win greater glory for his legacy and reputation after death, as foretold by Thetis. Another point is that this scene is still beholden to the plot set by Archilleus' prayer in approx 1:406 (which Grimes appears to miss as the prompt for Zeus' will).