The True Identity Of Cypher - 40K Theories

[@awesomehpt8938]

I don’t know what his true identity is but I know he hosts a voxcast show called “cypher stalks people”

[@justbobagian]

‘Brother Asmodei, pull that up on the noosphere’

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

​@justbobagian Have you seen that holoclip of a Warp-Bear fighting that Chaos Space Marine?

[@harrisonglickman1996]

I love when he throws stuff at people and Yells "Prank!"

[@Deridus]

Mysterious!

[@AGS363]

Everyone asks, "Who is Cypher?" but no one asks, "How is Cypher?".

[@georgesulea]

Or...WHEN IS CYPHER?!

[@highlandoutsider]

"I'll do you one better! WHY is Cypher!?"

[@paladro]

)

[@Ulfhednir9]

Where is Cypher is a common one

[@Nyctophora]

Literally came here to post this :D

[@canis2020]

I firmly believe that Cyphers ability to get out of trouble is tied to Johnson's Forest Walk ability

[@40KTheories]

That would make sense. I think it works better than the older lore of him having a guardian angel type daemon that spirits him away at the last minute.

[@robertkb64]

@@40KTheoriesCombine them and it makes the most sense. His “Guardian Angel” type Daemon is really just a Watcher in the Dark who is helping the Lions scion fulfill the Lions purpose (whatever that happens to be). So it’s a weak form of forest walking potentiated by a Watcher in the Dark.

[@Epicmonk117]

@@40KTheoriesImportant question: do we know if Cypher has been active at all after the Lion’s return?

[@smithjack1741]

Cypher, a lost member of The Offspring, amoung many of his titles as I have come to understand.

[@40KTheories]

I guess you could say he's pretty fly, for a Fallen guy?

[@dubiousjester475]

As much as I’d love to find out his true identity, I do believe some questions are better left a mystery. Although in the next lion book I would like to see a meeting between them.

[@Erikjust]

I wouldn´t mind a meeting between the two. However if the mystery is to remain i would say let all we know about the meeting shrouded in mystery. Though maybe have Lion mention something that when his task was done, he would take him to meet the Emperor personally.

[@dubiousjester475]

@@Erikjust how there meeting would be handled would have to be done very carefully. Maybe a look of recollection, a nod or some very choice words then cypher disappears.

[@gothpunkboy89]

I really don't understand this "things are best left unexplained" mentality. It is so narratively unsatisfying to be presented a mystery, be given lots of hints and then noting ever explained. The reveal should be the satisfying conclusion to the mystery. If they have to keep things a mystery then that is just bad writing.

[@Erikjust]

@@gothpunkboy89 Its a balancing act. Sure i agree that mystery boxes are fun, but they can and DO get annoying if that´s all there is. But at the same time if there´s no mystery left, if everything is explained. Then a franchise can grow stale and boring. That´s in a way why some people love sci-fi horror movies. Because space is unexplored we don´t know what is out there. So we are allowed to speculate, to theorize to ask what might be out there?. If space ever become 100% explored, we would start asking well what if other dimensions existed, what if time travel existed what then? All to keep theorizing to keep some mystery in our lives. So again its a balancing act between mysteries and facts, to much or too little can both hurt the franchise.

[@gothpunkboy89]

@@Erikjust Most franchises will push a mystery and then explain it and then go onto a new one. While 40k tends to keep kicking the same mysteries around over and over again. As for the franchise growing stale and boring. How has that not already occurred? I mean 40k is nothing if not predictable in what happens. Mystery after mystery after mystery that never gets explained and goes on for years until they drop the plot line because they got bored with it. Even beyond that 40k is very predictable. Chaos or Xenos infiltrate a planet and cause and uprising, or just out right attack it. The guard does most of the fighting and then the space marines show up last minute to either win the planet or lose the planet. Even if they lose it doesn't matter because there is always another planet existing for the Imperium to have. And the cycle repeats it self over and over again. The longer a named character exists the more ridiculous stuff they can do. Like the lore makes it clear a space marine far surpasses a base line human. Yet you have Cain getting into a sword fight with chaos one and surviving. Mephiston going though a pokemon style evolution after being trapped under a building for 7 days. Without armor and without a weapon he fought off a hive full of Orks bare handed until the orks ran away in fear. Even thought these same orks have killed fully armed and armored marines before.

[@kevinm.7209]

I think it’s safe to say that absolutely everybody is waiting for an encounter between Cypher and the Lion, and possibly wanting that even more than the inevitable meeting between Guilliman and the Lion.

[@ConnorLonergan]

Someone asked this and it is said what he whispered was "I am Alpharious."

[@BlackeyeVuk]

Cypher is chaos manifestation of Dark Angels and everyone close included paranoia. And acts upon those suspicions. Some believe he helps, some believe he harms. But everyone whispers and believes. Cypher acts exactly like the whispers. Erratic and unreliable. Yet happens always close to Dark Angels. Dark Angels are the catalyst and weak veil between immeterium. It is also possible for Emperor to establish communication with such creature.

[@40KTheories]

An interesting idea~

[@victarionwinter1998]

I really like this idea

[@highlandoutsider]

Like the chaos god sketchy bastards? 🤔 I like it

[@miguelperez9906]

Watch him just be 3 watchers in the dark in a trench coat

[@DeusBlackheart]

He could be Omegon.

[@Khornecussion]

You mean the host of the hit Imperium voxcast " Cypher Stalks People " - last I heard he did an episode where he pranked the Fabricator General.

[@akumaking1]

“Asmodai, make him repent.”

[@mercenarygundam1487]

REPENT MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

[@theodoreslavo5385]

"Did I hear murder enthousiastically?!" I mean ahem. "REPENT MOTHA FUCKER!" *leaps at*

[@Davernn]

You would not believe the amount of laugher this spawned out of me

[@owenlindkvist5355]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTT!!!

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Of the choices given Zahariel is my guess, as Cypher's actions seem to lean more in with his motivations. We don't know his true fate as put while injured by Typhus he was apparently on Caliban for its fall as mentioned in the video, and with Luthor's broken mind he may have remembered things wrong where Cypher was helping them fight against the Chaos forces.

[@garycheung4658]

More likely to be Corswain if going dowk that route

[@dornfist3913]

Another great video Remleiz! Cypher for me represents one of those 40k mysteries that will probably never be resolved to keep the speculation going. 😅A 30k Scouring Series however, may tell us what happened to Zahariel or who ended up taking up the mantle of Cypher by the time of the Fall of Caliban. I personally would love to know if they confirmed that Cypher has indeed been carrying the fragments of the Lion Sword all this time, considering that passage where Guilliman seemed to recognize that blade after he had Cypher arrested. Anyhow, another great video! I'm currently making my way through "Lion: Son of the Forest" and am enjoying it immensely!! 🙂

[@t.d.mcintosh]

It’s clear that Remleiz is Cypher. Why else would you be trying to deduce his identity? So you can throw off suspicion! Case closed.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

Whenever Remleiz is 'sick', he's actually off doing "something mysterious".

[@Deridus]

So not only is Remliez a Fallen, he's also an Inquisator. Oh. Oh, nooo.

[@CrazyFunTVMovieGuy]

One candidate I think is cool is Omegon. Part of me thinks it can take away the uniqueness of Cypher, but I think it would still work if the real Cypher and Omegon changed places every now and then

[@JPLOWMAN2]

If I had to make a guess based on what you’ve shown in this video, I think I would have events play out in a manner similar to this; 1. Zahariel as Cypher aids Corswain during the Siege on Terra, gets wounded by Typhus. 2. After the Siege, Corswain takes wounded Zahariel back to Caliban to rejoin the Legion. Battle of Caliban then ensues. 3. During battle, maybe Cypher and his followers decide to sabotage Corswain’s ship to try and affect the outcome of the fight on the ground. Corswain intervenes, Cypher fights him, gets fatally wounded. 4. As he dies, Cypher uses some kind of mind control to implant a hypnotic suggestion in Corswain’s brain, maybe one that doesn’t initially take effect so he doesn’t realize it’s there. 5. Once his ship is either secured or too damaged to be of use in the battle, Corswain goes to the surface. At some point fighting on Caliban, he loses his sword, probably picks up nearest weapons to hand, i.e. bolt pistol and plasma pistol. 6. Eventually he finds the Lion, who gives him his deathbed orders. The shock of the Primarch’s death probably causes Zahariel’s mind control to trigger, making Corswain think he is Cypher. But maybe his orders from the Lion create a conflict in his mind with whatever plan Zahariel had in mind for him, resulting in Cypher’s erratic behavior as the two contradicting directive clash with each other. Anyway that’s just my theory

[@retroicdescent]

So similar to the memory and mind altering that happened to Venom Snake in MGSV?

[@michaelmwaniki4184]

"Cypher? No. My name is Alpharius. This is a lie" 💀

[@Volnas97]

If, in Cypher, you change 3 letters and add 3 letters to the end, you will get Alpharius, which can't be coincidence.

[@KrisToCool]

I’ve always thought he was the previous chapter master over and over fulfilling the legions most important duty. Each chapter master would pass the title to his successor ensuring the secret and the mission.

[@sajadhoxhaj6603]

The problem with this theory is that during the novel:"Luther first of the fallen" one of the many Dark angels chapter masters who interrogates Luther kills himself because of some severe losses the chapter took. Also in Azrael's book the previous chapter master (Naberius if not mistaken) is killed in action by Night Lords making Azrael the supreme grand master

[@DharkDemonBlade]

Woah woah woah woah, this Video shouldn’t exist. Remleiz please come to this dark alleyway for a second

[@mrbearbear83]

Welcome back, you've been missed

[@40KTheories]

Thank you! Be sure to also check out our High Lords and Black Throne videos if you haven't had a chance yet :D

[@TK199999]

Why do people think Cypher has to be Dark Angel? Just because he wears the armor of one doesn't he actual is one. With some suspecting that Cypher is in fact Omegon.

[@michaelhowell2326]

Do you think GW will ever reveal the true identity of Cypher?

[@40KTheories]

They probably won't, no.

[@viciousyeen6644]

It’s Cypher

[@Deridus]

I hope not. Teasing us like they do with 2 and 11 is the only sane way to keep going on with Cypher.

[@crimcrusader8459]

If anyone is going to pierce Cypher's real identity, it would be Lion El'Jonson himself.

[@DemiurgeDarkfire]

amazing choice for the backround music dude

[@Thedagda801]

Excellent as always

[@GamaDaGreat]

100% convinced this is just Omegon doing Omegon things

[@dontcare5396]

Its Zahariel, look back at how he fights (with pistols) and being the only knight other than the Lion to take down a calabanite lion using his warp powers and a pistol. he was also the first knight other than the lion to meet and befriend the watchers in the dark. Also, of all the dark angles during the heresy, his character is the most intertwined with the lion, more so than luther. And lets not forget that even the emperor himself fiddled with his mind/memories (removing some memories) before having made him into a space marine. For such a character to have been given that much attention and build up it would make sense that he is thee dark angels Cypher. With this in mind, in every fight we know about he is always finding luck on his side, even when he is in dire need much like Ciaphas Cain. doesn't mean he is immune to getting stomped but, that luck is truly and always on his side that things just workout for him in the end (Other than when he was a human and was captured by the emperor's guys and interrogated for being a saboteur against the imperium).

[@40KTheories]

It's certainly possible he's still Zahariel. But the doubt however comes from the fact that he was seemingly killed by Typhus, who tore his torso open with his corrupted power scythe during the Siege of Terra (like we mention in the video).

[@dontcare5396]

@@40KTheories yes this is true but getting into the nittygritty, Horus was cut by an even more deadlier blade and after his mushroom trip in a warp spa he was cured. I'm wondering if the watchers in the dark saved Zahariel in a similar manner? it would explain his (Cypher's) absence during the majority of the 10k years after the heresy ended. Also make a good plot line for his character's redemption/possible plan made by the watchers (much like the Alpha legion had the cabal). I would like to point out how he wanted to see the emperor and most likely planned to try and save him by finishing him off. These watchers are more powerful in the use of the warp than people give them credit for. even more powerful than that chaos cult that saved Horus. Take the lions return from the dead with new gift to slide from location to warp Caliban to location.

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

​@@40KTheories If any one of those options could heal from a Nurglite power scythe, it would probably be Zahariel. That guy is a powerful psyker in his own right and was resisting nurgle-corrupted forests when he should've been in middle school.

[@40KTheories]

@dontcare5396 That's totally fair, though personally I don't think using Horus is a fair comparison, given that he's a Primarch (and have an altogether different physiology), but that's just me :)

[@dontcare5396]

@@40KTheories I’d have to disagree with you on that friend and think it is a perfect example of warp powers defying logic and understanding of physiology. An example of this would be when an imperial navy fighter pilot enters the warp or is pulled in, they fuse into the jet and they become one creature. The variety of warp infused creations show that anything is possible with warp powers, so to heal one’s self or be healed using warp powers by the watchers is entirely possible.

[@cormacbevins9679]

I like the idea that the identity of Cypher has changed to the killer everytime someone has managed to kill the guy.

[@ZachSeineVideos]

It's obviously Sly Marbo. Not in the way that Sly is an Astartes, but it's literally just Sly who punched a Dark Angel out of his power armor and every time he gets drunk af he puts it on and pretends to be the edgiest mf that exists.

[@ChillMusikHardMusik]

Warhammer 40k KZbinrs emerge like mayflies in the last 10 year. But I always like the old favorites, like 40k Theories.

[@Matt-md5yt]

happy you covered Cypher again my friend

[@robisclimbing5359]

Lionel L. Johnson: They'll hunt him. He's the hero we deserve. But not the hero we need....

[@highlandoutsider]

As much as unanswered questions make my brain itchy, how desperately I wanna know what this dude is up to, I think the mystery has been built up so much now that any answer would seam anticlimactic, which sucks so bad cause, by the throne, I need to know!

[@cjthebeesknees]

Hey Cypher, you and Alpharius wanna go get faded and clap galaxy cheeks with me this weekend? Him: Hell yeah brother, count me i… Me: aha! You slippery bastard.

[@scrubsrc4084]

He is steve from accounting

[@thewerdna]

I think Cypher is basically both Zahariel and Corswain. In his book, when getting a view of his thoughs, his mental state and memories are fragmented and confused. I think during their duel Corswain mortally wounded Zahariel, who in turn tried to use his psyker powers to overwrite Corswain's with his own. This was only partially successful, resulting in a confused mix of both personalities in Corswain's body. Thus we have someone who acts like Zahariel, but lacks any psyker abilities.

[@DJSummerDM1]

Cypher is like the lost Primarchs, great story but gw will just dick tease us with them

[@David-li4uw]

Imo, IF GW ever says who it is, most likely candidates from most to least is: 1. Corswain. People love Corswain and a new 40k Cypher/Corswain mode would make big money. 2. Zahariel. Lore wise makes the most sense, but would be kinda anticlimactic and not be as good for sales. 3. Alpharius. There are lots of issues that have been documented against this. However, Lion and Alpharius are both fans of sneaky 5d chess stuff. Alpharius also revealed himself to Lion first over the rest of his brothers. It would take some lore shenanigans, but that’s easy with Alpha Legion and it would make big money. My bet is they never say who it is and let it remain a mystery.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

Is it likely, that there is more than one Cypher?

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

There's already been multiple Cyphers as it's a title.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

@@wikipediaintellectual7088 No shit....I mean simultaneously.

[@Antluc03]

It’s either Zaharial or Omegon

[@temporarymfz9258]

10:57, the returned lion forgetting what he told cypher Todo back then when asked about cypher. That would be funny Hopefully GW doesn't forget about this.

[@Lumen_Obscurum]

I think Cypher's identity is not as interesting as who he has been working for. Largely it has been the good of the Imperium, but I was genuinely expecting there to be a time when the Dark Angels Chapter Master was talking to Lion El'Johnsson and mentioned their hunt for Cypher only to have the Lion go "Oh so you're why he's been having so much trouble. Knock it off."

[@randomacademypilot]

Thank you.

[@LordChaosWing]

Don't we know more about Cypher's Sword? I feel like that's gotta factor into Cypher's Identity in a big way.

[@40KTheories]

Like we mention in the video, it's implied to be the shattered remnants of Lion El'Jonson's sword.

[@bloodwolfkoji]

What interests me is that; now that the Lion has returned and has reformed the Dark Angels into hunting to kill the Chaos-tainted Fallen and gathering the Risen back into the Legion. Where does the current Lord Cypher lie? Risen or Fallen?

[@Jawmax]

If Lion El' Johnson meets him, we may know for sure... which is probably why GW will never let it happen.

[@dstubby82]

"It doesn't matter who we are. What matters is our plan."

[@andarchy1386]

It's Corswain it just has to be

[@BigFish4200]

I'm not gonna lie you make some really good videos. My guy, but my thing is up and listening to you. Since I was in high school and now I'm wondering why you're still doing that weird voice inflection thing.

[@40KTheories]

This may sound weird but it helps me deal with a bit of speech impediment. If you heard the un-edited versions of the podcasts, you'd be bombarded with constant stuttering, marble-mouthing and the like lol

[@mikewaterfield3599]

I wish you would do more xenology vids. No one covers the natural in 40k, even the kraken.

[@kurthasedd7923]

I personally like the curveball theory that he's possibly Sevatar. I like this theory, I think it would make for a good story; he's got psychic powers of foresight, he's a well known commander and level headed Night Lord. As well it makes sense for the tradition laid out for the Lord Cypher. In either Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels when a new Cypher is chosen, he is almost certainly: A. a member outside of the Order and B. most likely a Knight from their chaos worshipping rivals they just got done destroying So its not even something existing as a hypothetical, it has happened and its happened with a worse qualifying candidate. Finally my last favorite and also probably least relevant piece of this all is his armor. Looking at the models for Jago and for Cypher, they're both the only space marines to have non-terminator power armor with that distinctive crease right down the middle through to the boots

[@Duppyman695]

I am *Not* Alpharius!, Cypher is *Not* Alpharius! Remleiz is Banksy so he is *Not* Alpharius! then who is Alpharius?

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

I am Omegon.

[@sockmonkeyjg]

Hold on..... Am I Alpharius!???

[@Sam_Smith1987]

My moneys on Zahariel. Mainly because GW commissioned a series of books within the Heresy series focused on him. The answer is hiding in plain sight.

[@drinksanddice9528]

Zahariel it's Zahariel. He was the closest to the previous Cypher. The conflict between the Lion and Nemial over the use of psykers explains why Cypher doesn't use the powers Zahariel had after meeting the Watchers. He's also the only one whose had an audience with the emperor and the only one who the Emperor owes a favor to (for stopping his assassination during the Caliban compliance). The Dark Angels books also have a unreliable mono-focalized narrator speaking past tense with a recurring spiral posing as a loop motif. Zaharial was shown the center of the loop on Caliban by the Lion who in the epilog of that second book is clearly jealous of Horus and is making arms trades with pre-heresy Pertarabo. If I had to bet the whole thing is a big loop Cypher is trying to get to the emperor to either confirm he's dead and prove Guiliman, who has been influenced by the Eldar is making shit up or to warn him that the thing that emerged from caliban isn't actually the Lion. When the Watchers first encounter Zahariel they want to kill him because of his psyker taint but he makes a deal with them. The first Cypher is also present when Luthor decides not to kill baby Lion even after being told to do so by the same Watchers, so why on earth would they bring a older Lion back from the brink. Zahariel is probably the only one who is in a position to know what is actually going on. Moreover, he has a estaished pattern of using the bolters of his fallen mentors so he's paying respects to Nemial, his hero guy on Caliban, Luthor ND the previous Cypher who facilitates the meeting between the rebels and loyalists before the fallen decide to turn in the Lion. BAM solved... it's Zahariel.

[@ltcinsane]

I'm honestly gonna be curious as to what Cypher is gonna do now that the Lion has returned .. since he didn't get to offer the lion sword to the emperor .. so i wonder whether he will rejoin the Lion as the other non-chaos fallen.

[@allways28]

Great vid sorry YT stopped recommending this channel as I usually watched all uploads. Must be some corrupted scrap code in the algorithm..

[@guy_autordie]

Cypher is Alpharius

[@40KTheories]

In which case he looks really good for a man that had his head bisected by Rogal Dorn's chainsword ;)

[@x570Belmont]

@@40KTheories The original Alpharius switched places with Omegon, and it was Omegon that died against Dorn leaving Cypher being Alpharius plausible. Alpharius/Omegon were also the size of a normal Astartes, allowing them to blend in to the rank and file easier than the other much larger Primarchs. Alpha Legion shenanigans abound!

[@40KTheories]

No, it was definitely Alpharius that died (the author, John French, even explicitly stating so on Twitter). Remember that at the end of the novel Praetorian of Dorn (the one where Alpharius died), Omegon, whilst at the other end of the galaxy, psychically sensed when his twin had been killed, forcing him to take up the mantle of Alpharius permanently.

[@craigzinkta3988]

Cypher has feelings too.

[@kbennett2587]

Could be a title given when a young Dar angel must either repent or do a mission the chapter can not.

[@SteveVDuelist]

I think Croswain and Zaharail switch places as indicated in pandorax, Croswain taking the role of Cypher and Zaharial becoming the acient grey knight. Interesting in holder ofthemind probing interigation reveals Corswain lead the assault on caliban's orbital defences, I think it might have being Astelan's intergation, as the codeword starfire is a key part of that story, if so It is possible Astelan still recognised Croswain, dispsite Croswain taken Cypher's role at this point, and with station set to blow, maybe captured after that which brings his too vision in eye of ezikeil. thought Croswain was become a rallying symbol of the legion's wings accroding to the HH black books well respected by all, similar how cypher in his book and rise of a primarch, a wide varity of fallen follow him, full chaos, reneadge and loyalist in exile with no issue.

[@60sSam]

And all this is something that we have to follow up with the question of who is the original Grand Master of the Grey Knights 5th Brotherhood...whose name completely escapes me. Because the conversation between that Space Marine and a Daemon from the book Pythos suggests that someone pulled a switch. It seems like the Dark Angel in question wasn't supposed to be in the 41st mil. and was on Caliban when the world was destroyed. And since we know from the book (iirc) Master of Sanctity that Cypher takes a shuttle into the warp rift that destroyed Caliban, it is possible that the Cypher from the 31st mil. and the one from the 41st are the same person because he went back in time through that rift. Or there could be two of them. Which would not surprise me at all.

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

Cypher is Alpharius!

[@fakechemicals]

The true secret identity of Cypher is that he is a team of 7 raccoons manning a suit of power armor. All of "his" plots and schemes are simply attempts at getting into various imperial organizations trash. This is canon, I was digging through GW's trash and accidentally stumbled onto the series bible when I overheard someone referring to one of the head writers office as a "dumpster fire" and so thought it was a dumpster that might have some yummy treats. I myself am not a raccoon, just homeless.

[@craigzinkta3988]

There's zero chance Cypher is NOT Alpharius

[@sintaribat9350]

I thought cypher body jumps like that character from the emperor's children.

[@spiderriszer7856]

Omegon laughs in Cypher

[@blackmailer26]

Cypher is alpharius 😮

[@elitedangerous7591]

Alpharius is Cypher.

[@1973Washu]

He is Cypher , this is his identity since the Lord Cypher forsakes his old identity upon assuming that title/role/office.

[@markrtoffeeman]

I think you need to check youre not the victim of XX Alpha Legion infiltration as I'm sure heard Oculus Imperia voice several times! Are you not sure that is Alpharius? Are we sure this is not some Alpha Legion plot As I'm pretty sure Oculus Imperia is busy writing historical records on Terra for the Lord Commander Gulliman

[@knowplay3258]

The novel, Pandorax, gives massive hints as to who Cypher was and now is.

[@40KTheories]

Are you sure it's Pandorax? Because from a quick look the only thing in that book which mentions the name Cypher (that I can find) is the "Order of the Fractured Cypher", which is a Dialogous branch of the Adepta Sororitas completely unrelated to the Dark Angels.

[@knowplay3258]

One of the Founding Grey Knights, Epimethius, was a Dark Angel. When Epimethius faces a Lord of Change in M41 on Pandorax, the Lord of Change mentions he is responsible for "turning half a Legion and the subsequent destruction of their homeworld." The Lord Of Change had been trapped in the Damnation Cache for 10,000 years and Epimethius was put in stasis to guard the Cache. Both having just arisen with Abaddon's opening of the Cache. During the fight, both Epimethius and the Lord of Change realize who the other is. Epimethius knows exactly who the demon truly is because as Epimethius states, he was there at the fall of Caliban. The Lord of Change is then allowed by Epimethius to see into his mind so that the demon sees that Epimethius knows his true name. BUT, the Lord of Change then freaks out because he also had seen who Epimethius was before he was a Grey Knight, a Dark Angel Librarian. The Lord of Change then cries that this path was NOT the one foreseen for Epimethius as he was supposed to be in the "guise of another" and was supposed to "walk a darker path." Epimethius then states that is true, but "another took his place to walk that darker path for him" as Epimethius was recruited to be a Grey Knight. Later in the novel, Colonel Strike tells Azrael and Kaldor Drago, on the surface of Pandorax, that an ancient Space Marine has been helping them. When further questioned by the two Astartes, Strike tells them that all he knows is that the Ancient Terminator is referred to as Epimethius. Upon this news, Azrael quietly poops his pants and Drago has an internal panic attack. I believe from this, we can deduce that Epimethius had been the Lord Cypher at the fall of Caliban. But when Epimethius was recruited to be one of the eight founding Grey Knights and took the on the name Epimethius, another became the Lord Cypher. Not many present at the fall of Caliban could or would have taken Epimethius' place as Cypher once Epimethius passed on the knowledge that the new Cypher would have to "walk a darker path." Only one Dark Angel, having somewhat "neutral" loyalties would have been willing to walk such a path that skirts then line between Loyalist and Traitor...and the honor to stand in for another Brother in such a sacrifice...Corswain.

[@knowplay3258]

This would also explain why Corswain is considered M.I.A. or to have mysteriously disappeared. If Corswain became Cypher, then for all intents and purposes, Corswain was no longer alive.

[@40KTheories]

Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated! The main problem with the idea of Epimetheus being the Lord Cypher that was present during the Fall of Caliban however, was that he (Epimetheus) was on Terra prior to the events of the Siege (as shown in the novel "The Buried Dagger") and was subsequently sent to Titan along with the other founding members of the Grey Knights (with the implication that Epimetheus was originally the Dark Angels black shield known as The Nemean), making it incredibly unlikely (if not impossible) for him to be the same Cypher that was present upon Caliban. This could be an oversight by GW or potentially a retcon.

[@knowplay3258]

GW has been known to make such mistakes simply by using different authors to continue a story or idea. As authors are human, it is entirely possible that a current author could overlook a previous detail from another author or could be directed by GW to somewhat retcon the story to take the idea in another direction. We will probably never know. 🤷‍♂️

[@Cruzader310]

Erratic appearances throughout the galaxy for over 10k years.... Fought on both loyalist and heretic astartes sides.... So elusive that he can even escape custodes.... No one knows what his true objectives are.... It's obvious that Cipher is Omegon playing 5d chess on a galaxy scale

[@viciousyeen6644]

It’s easy. Cypher is Cypher. No answer is the biggest mystery

[@Epicmonk117]

Have we seen any activity from Cypher since the Lion’s return?

[@RSBurgener]

Cypher's identity is a very interesting subject, but I'm afraid it's The Lost Primarchs again: the real lore is there is no lore.

[@hectorbernal2604]

Or can be Omegon

[@nobleman9393]

Raven.

[@40KTheories]

The wrestler? That'd be a twist!

[@alejandrorp5160]

CAH-CAW?

[@sashasky717]

cypher with lion is cypher from future (40k) - UNFORGIVEN

[@ericmumper6821]

Cypher is quite obviously Alpharius. 😉

[@Warboss_Thrakka_Snazzfingas]

REMLEIS! It's been foreva since I heard from ya! GITFACE! HANG OUT SUMTIME!

[@sum1337]

cypher is Big E possessing a dark angel trying to kill himself to release his ''soul'' from his current crippled body and reborn

[@Ironbattlemace]

So kewl and so mywstewious.

[@evanabbott2737]

Could Cypher be secretly loyal to the lion? Like, the lion’s “man on the inside”? (I’m new to warhammer…😬)

[@Ulfhednir9]

Cypher is just Alpharius

[@Tomslav]

There is multiple individuals who are Cypher, they are members of Fallen.

[@bobfrancis123]

Cypher is Alpharius. And that is a lie.

[@ravenguard1495]

If he got assigned a task by the Lion we will know sooner or later given that he is back in town😂

[@magnusbuckus3266]

Haven't listened to these in months. Has the voice changed?

[@40KTheories]

I got a new setup installed about a year or so ago, if that's what you mean?

[@magnusbuckus3266]

@@40KTheories i didn't realise it had been that long! Does sound better!

[@servit0r]

Occolus!

[@lucasfelling8417]

Lord of the fallen nuuuaaaaahhh xD

[@canis2020]

Little did anyone know but the true identity of Cypher is none other than Betty White!

[@tero2535]

I think hes some unknown guy for lore they make his story some year just random dark angel

[@RecoilGunnerStudios]

Zabriel ... I hope im wrong

[@mykelengieza7057]

ALGORITHM

[@tjorgensen8760]

If you’re going to portray a character then you need to be armed and armoured the same

[@knightzix_01]

What if we have a Similar Problem Like The operating Code of the alpha legion I am cypher and so he lives so it explains why chaos is a thing Could be a tainted version of the character while others are People that have no connection to the Chaos side but still hold the The Ideals of the Legion like in the book son of the forest Aka Lionel johnson Book

[@knightzix_01]

Please forgive if this is poorly Written

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

I got it. Cypher is Alpharius. I have zero evidence but I make my claim here.

[@sirsmashing6244]

What's that song at 9:40

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

I want to know as well please

[@40KTheories]

The same song that's played throughout the rest of the video. Battle 4 from Final Liberation.

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

@@40KTheories Thanks for taking the time man. ❤️ Hydra Dominatus

[@Kenpachi4904]

Cypher is Alpharius. This is a lie.