5.01 Reverse Shackles Explained

Here I got into the first layer of detail about Reverse Shackles, their benefits, and their drawbacks. One thing that applies to my rig but not necessarily to every leaf sprung rig is that I'm sprung over (SOA) AND I have very flat springs. That introduces its own problems which I will be dealing with over the course of the next few weeks/months.

[@b.s.adventures9421]

Your info is really great. I find it interesting learning all the nuance of different suspension set ups.

[@deadfishdad]

I thank you for explaining to the crowd why and why not to do a shackle reversal. My 68 800 with Scout 2 axles SOA YJ springs front and rear with Forward shackle and flat springs could not perform better. I have had a reverse shackle on another vehicle, and as you pointed out other problems arise. I punched out the transfer case upon not full compression first. Then I had shackle bottoming out on frame. Fixes were custom drive shaft and those funky shaped shackles and bump stops, nothing fixes nose dive on hard braking or just braking. Go with an OG design and save yourself a bunch of tail chasing! I also suspect the shops that sell such reverse shackle kits know this. They sell a product knowing the fixes will result in greater sales to get workable results.

[@rakkassan2187]

Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge. I have a 67' and will stay stock as much as possible, but knowledge is power, and this helps add to my knowledge base and improves my available options.

[@Kdx20043]

Excellent video with very accurate info.

[@risingphoenixbronco5328]

Wow. Never understood the geometry of the shackles. Good stuff. Thanks

[@thisoldjeepcj5]

Subscribed. You got me! 5:44 "Reversal reversal" I love it. 8:08 "Kind of janky" lol I understand the advertised benefits of a reversal but figure the manufacturer made the choice for a reason. Large tires tend to shove into the rear of the wheel well as well and can create clearance problems. Want to see the review when it's done.

[@MattsGarage]

I wasn’t planning on an update but maybe I should! It rides like a dream. If I could get the motor tuned like the suspension I’d be a happy camper. Leave the shackles up front!

[@picoz183]

Awesome video "Ghostface" Matt! Came out learning more about leaf springs and possible ways to approach my Scout. Thanks again for always providing some solid info.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Andres. Is Quiroz Portuguese? Spanish? Cool name.

[@picoz183]

@@MattsGarage Spanish surname by the way of Mexico. but who knows where it came from. As you know it gets complicated. Thanks for the compliment!

[@menone8532]

Just found this channel, nice job. My 73 is spring over with 33's, desert steel extended shackles. Rides like a Scout should. I have rode/driven a few reverse shackle Scout's, too chevy truck feel to them for me.

[@paulmiller5076]

Hey Matt, maybe you should try coil springs & radius arms! Oh, wait... 😜

[@richolson1515]

I've got a totally stock setup in my 79. Never had any interest in lifting or changing. My scout is a road vehicle, cruising around town and at 40/45 mph she rides sweet. Glad to see your posting Scout content, there is not much out there. Keep it up and I look forward to the next installment. Thanks.

[@MattsGarage]

Rich, you are a wiser man than me. I wish I had left it sprung under.

[@JesusRamirez-ci2le]

Great videos too. Thanks 👍

[@justincrasi4638]

i totally agree with this logic. i think steadfast loyalty to one front or reverse is wrong. it's all dependent on the setup, flat vs lifted springs, desired ride height, etc. Jeep put them on the shackles on the front during the 90s, i'm sure they had sophisticated enough engineers at that time to figure it out, they wouldn't have done something dangerous. the video with the mock up leafs really gets at the details of it.

[@brianreilly6358]

Learning is good!

[@NAPAuniversalJoints]

shackle forward in hard offroad condition tend to break leaf springs. rear shackles set up soak up hard hits so much better, forward shackle push back on hard hits.

[@mec7568]

Interesting that 4WD Travelalls and pickups have rear shackles from the factory.

[@gregchiropolos9885]

I’ve been running reverse shackles on my CJ5 for years. It never road so nice and straight, the only draw back is some dive when braking it’s not too bad and I’ve gotten used to it.

[@johnnny030621]

I love the whole deal no one has caught ur using a gun cleaner rod for a pointing stick .... That's awesome NRA FOR LIFE !!!!

[@MattsGarage]

johnny Whipple aka Mayhem Amendments: the only time when being second is the best. Thanks for watching, we park our cars in the same garage.

[@cactuscookie]

Hey Matt, your last remark with the Splines on the driveshaft... When you have a lot downtravel and just a bit uptravel like mine, you really have to keep an eye on the splines. As you said with a shakle reverse kit your axle moves away from the gearbox so you lose a lot !!! of spline lenght in comparision to the "normal" shakle assembling. Sorry for my english i'm from Luxemburg, Europe by the way, great Videos, keep going...

[@MattsGarage]

cactuscookie your English is great! I am about to start measuring for driveshafts soon. Thanks!

[@cactuscookie]

Matt's Garage i notice this problem by the assembling of the reversal kit as my driveshaft felt apart 🙈🙈🙈 the new one with almost 3inch more splines will be delivered in few days

[@cactuscookie]

By the way, by changing the angle of the shakle i change only the effective spring rate, but to hold the vehicle at the same hight i have to relocate the new upper mounting point (same lengt shakles) in radius of the spring eye ?!?!?!

[@MattsGarage]

cactuscookie technically yes but it is a very minor difference in height. And you have to be careful not to roll your caster angle forward too much if you drop your front shackle upper mount. It is a delicate balance.

[@cactuscookie]

Matt's Garage caster angle in not much important for me. My suzuki samurai is not street legal, it‘s only for Freestyle-Trial-Competitions (www.freestyletrial.de). I mesured and my shakles are more than 2“ away from where the should be. Thanks a lot for your Videos an your fast and competent answers.

[@73stroppe]

Incognito @nashvilleearlybronco shirt peaking through

[@tomcompoli]

Hey Matt. This is curious to me. I just went SOA with the whole CPT IHPA kit and also did there reverse shackle set up. With 5" shackles. They state to set the shackle angle at only 5-10*. They do a ton of these set ups on customer rigs to and I haven't heard of really any complaints on scouts other than the touch of nose diving when braking. I have heard its done more for on road manners than offroad. Off road complaints I have heard are that when say bumping up against a large rock or ledge etc that the springs won't help push you up over the rock as they deflect backward. I have never driven my Scout at all so I can't say either way. But I'll update my opinions when she's on the road in a few months.

[@MattsGarage]

Tom Compoli i understand. If you go to the IH Parts America link below you can see a photo of white scout with this setup. You can see that’s like almost 35. Others look like 10 or 15. Are you running stock springs? I’m still figuring this out too. www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/CPT-RVRS-SHKL-KIT.html

[@tomcompoli]

@@MattsGarage stock springs but I added an extra full length leaf to each pack. You can check my build thread at binderplanet.com username Winchested.

[@tomcompoli]

@@MattsGarage Yep stock springs with 1 extra leaf up front. Even my stock rear springs with 5" shackle only sit at around 6*.

[@jhastings73]

Duh, who gives this a thumbs down? 15 years ago reverse shackle was all the rage, it's interesting to see Scout owners going back to stock setups. I'm guessing you're keeping your SOA? Keep it up, Matt.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Jason. Thanks for watching. Yes keeping the SOA only because the cost to change back at this point is too much for me. Of course maybe I should ask if anyone out there has a rebuilt, cut and turned sprung UNDER dana 44 they want to trade with me. hehe. Yeah don't know about the thumbs down. Somehow I knew when I crossed over to the Scout I'd start getting some less-than-positive comments. Not because of scout owners, but because the channel is growing. I guess that's a good thing but at the same time I'd rather have a small group of guys watching who "get it" that it's just infotainment and I'm a normal person.

[@lewy1]

I am converting to a shackle reversal on my new frame. I have boomerang shackles right now and was planning on using them on the rear. Is that OK and if so what direction? I am SUA and primarily off road only. 2” lift with my springs.

[@MattsGarage]

Boomerang shackles on the rear are ok. It’s the opposite of the front so elbow in. Are you sure you want a reverse shackle? I had it in the scout and didn’t like it. Then again I’m never happy with the Scouts suspension.

[@lewy1]

@@MattsGarage I have learned it’s a debatable subject. I am getting a new frame from TDK and they recommend it as well I see WFO does it on all of his CJs. I don’t want to worry about bending a spring.

[@MattsGarage]

@@lewy1 I say keep it stock until you actually hit the spring. If ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Just an opinion.

[@JesusRamirez-ci2le]

I have a 03 Ford Explorer Sport Trac and put a 3 inch lift shackles but it still sits about 1 1/2 inchs lower on the back end of the truck. Could I make longer shackle to make up that difference? Or will I have issues? I can’t find any pre made ones.

[@MattsGarage]

Jesus Ramirez look at the video leaf springs video I made a little later in season 5. You can do it but you need to understand what it will do to your ride.

[@gemelsoncadiz2588]

On full leaf compression on obstacles wont the short shackles hit the frame as it is pushed backwards, wont hangers be better in this application than just drilling thru the frame

[@MattsGarage]

If the shackles are hitting the frame, then the springs are too long I think. In that case a longer shackle or hanger would help but better to move the shackle to the proper location.

[@salami99]

ah geometry, all of your explaining reminds me why i never leave stock. fuck doing geometry, leave it to the engineers who made and trust

[@notathing649]

Great stuff! My 74 scout has SOA and reverse shackle. I have a +2” lift spring too (it’s a bit too tall actually) and I like the ride. I’m learning tons here-keep it up! My scout instagram: @1974scout_ii

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Matt. I appreciate the positivity even if I am not going in the same direction as your personal build. Just followed you on instagram. Nice color ;-)

[@upnorthyooper1196]

30% would be to much.

[@MattsGarage]

Up North Yooper agree. I think I meant 30 degrees less than 90 (so 60 degrees) although even that would be pretty steep.