5 Reasons why Pistol Caliber Carbines DON'T suck!

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Reading the comments reminded me of a critical point I left out that I meant to include in the opening commentary. "Not every gun you buy needs to be the best tool for gunfighting on the market". The vast majority of people I know and interact with shoot for fun. I know far more people who buy guns based on the fun factor vs. the tactical factor. There are people out there who own a collection of guns and every one of them is setup for gunfighting. They believe if it's not a viable gunfighting tool, the firearm is useless. I see this reoccurring comment in the discussions below. I disagree. The vast majority of guns I own are for their fun factor not for their gunfighting utility. 99.9% of my guns will never be carried or otherwise used for personal defense. Perhaps this is a video topic itself. Thoughts?

[@kevinbrooks8868]

Absolutely, I know I left a comment of a similar vein below and felt that the distinction is necessary. I have a military background and am used to assuming that the firearm is intended to preserve life and liberty. Guns can absolutely be fun! No disagreement there! Thanks for the clarification!

[@snek9353]

I've never found it to be truly fun, enjoyable sure. But to me it's necessary, I enjoy being prepared, I enjoy training/practice. But shooting to me is no different than going for a run. One can enjoy it, but I wouldn't call it fun. So, I'm in the "needs to be the best tool for gunfighting" category, otherwise it's just a waste of resources.

[@kevinbrooks8868]

@@snek9353 I see your point, brother. I think you and I think along the same lines, but fortunately we live in America and (for right now) folks are allowed to do what they want for fun! I left a comment this morning explaining why I would never personally buy a PCC, but if someone wants to buy one, some gun is always better than no gun! Even if it's just a toy! I'd rather have people comfortable around guns and used to shooting them and if a PCC is how they get there, then I'm good with it.

[@snek9353]

@@kevinbrooks8868 I'd never say they should be banned or something. And absolutely any gun is better than no gun. But PCCs are just the mopeds of the gun world.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

@@snek9353 Remember, mopeds are like ugly chicks. They're both fun to ride until your friends see you. The same is true with PCC's.

[@davejs2569]

Any firearm that serves any purpose is the best to have. If a PCC doesn't meet your needs, it doesn't suck, it's just not for you. You pointed out many reasons why a PCC is a good option and I agree! Having a long arm that matches your sidearm carry magazines is a big plus.

[@myoptik3x103]

I appreciate your mature attitude. This is exactly how I feel about music as well. Just because you personally don’t like a particular style doesn’t mean it sucks, it just means that it doesn’t do it for you.

[@brahtrumpwonbigly7309]

This is a nice defense of 22lr as a defensive round, it still sucks.

[@nicke1903]

@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 agreed,better than nothing though unless theres a Twisted Tea Handy.

[@snek9353]

Why, what purpose does it serve?

[@tacticaltruth6Actual]

@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 " This is a nice defense of 22lr as a defensive round, it still sucks. " Nope....Fail. Look at the caliber, not the weapon. We (gun folks) rely on DEFENSIVE pistol calibers (.380acp and up) EVERYDAY! So if you are ok shooting someone in the face with a Glock 17, why is it not ok to shoot them in the face with a PCC of some sort?

[@derekrieve6660]

I have a Ruger PC Carbine and absolutely love it. Tons of fun, accurate, and takes Glock mags.

[@SOBERHANGOVER]

One of my favorite guns in my collection an absolute joy to shoot

[@jeramyw]

@nicholas stewart I've fired a 12 gauge, an SKS, a 30-30, and a 40 S&W in the house. Never bothered me.

[@jeramyw]

@nicholas stewart Believe what you will. Of course, I didn't fire them all on the same day.

[@jeramyw]

@nicholas stewart I remember when I dumped 30 rounds into some perps (I think I hit them with about half that) and don't remember any effects to my hearing.

[@jeramyw]

@nicholas stewart Maybe it was one of those auditory exclusion experiences. When in the heat of the moment you don't realize it. I fired a 12 gauge outside in a non stressful situation and rung my ears.

[@hk4lyfe59]

From a prepper's standpoint, its always good to have multiple platforms so you don't burn up one ammo source. This way if you have an abundance of 9mm etc. and are running low on 5.56, a PCC will allow you to defend yourself from targets all the way up to 100 yards using your 9mm

[@stevejackson9952]

That's why for my AR pistol from PSA I have the standard 5.56 upper, 300 blk out upper, 22lr upper and 9mm upper with the Daniel defense mag well adapter that takes Glock mags and a Glock 45 as my side arm.

[@UncleDon226]

Hate to rain on your parade, but I dont want to see you go down if you ever need to put the prepper stuff to use. Truth is, if you can only reach out to 100 meters, you are going to get clapped by someone who is zeroed at 300 meters. If you hit them at 300 meters with a PCC, you'd better hope they werent wearing a thick coat, because most of the energy of a 9mm is going to be spent. In stead of carrying a 5.56, a 9mm pistol and a PCC, ditch the latter and bring more 5.56 in strip clips.

[@hk4lyfe59]

@@UncleDon226 Your scenario is only relevant depending on where you live. Here on the east coast where the trees are dense, you aren't usually wide open and exposed, and if there's someone 300 meters away, you aren't going to engage them, you're going to slip away.

[@UncleDon226]

@@hk4lyfe59 But my question is why limit yourself? Even if you dont expect to engage at that distance, its still good to have the capability. Even if you are only shooting sub-100m, the ballistics of a pistol round arent even close to that of a rifle. "Do you want a 30 inch rifle in 5.56?" "No thanks, I want something that size but much, much worse." I dont get it. They are fun, I'll give them that. Smiles-per-mile they are fun. But if you ever need to use all your prepping skills, you will need a battle rifle- not a cumbersome pistol. Again, no hate, I'm just trying to suggest we have a little more separation between our fun range guns and the serious business guns.

[@hk4lyfe59]

@@UncleDon226 Basically what I was trying to say is that 9mm is a common round...and its cheap, so its normal for people to have an abundance of it. With that being said, lets say you're in an emergency and you have some hooligans trying to fight you at distances too far for your pistol (past 25 yards) but you don't want to burn up your 556 ammo, maybe you're running low on it, maybe you're out. Idk. Having a platform that lets you use your 9mm at further distances would help you save on your other ammo. That;s all. Wasn't trying to argue that 9mm is good for super long range.

[@sawdog9602]

I think the home defense angle was missed. Frankly, a suppressed pcc with a light would be very good option for realistic "in home" defense.

[@cgoins1993]

If you’re going to spend the money on a suppressor and subsonic ammo for home defense you may as well go with a 300 blackout pistol. Sure ammo be higher but it’s a far superior round

[@Crosshair84]

@@cgoins1993 You are unfortunately mistaken. Except for a few specialty solid copper loadings, the subsonic 300 Blackout terminal ballistics are trash. The vast majority of 30 caliber bullets will not expand at those velocities. You're basically shooting FMJ. By contrast, even your value pack 9/40/45 HP rounds can be relied upon to expand out of handguns and especially in PCCs, with their higher velocities.

[@ClitoridectomyGroyper]

@@cgoins1993 it's just western 7.62x39

[@agentoranj5858]

​@@cgoins1993 Superior to what, and for what purpose? Heaviest commercial blackout loads run around 220gr, the most common .45 ACP runs at 230gr and is a lot cheaper. BLK is more aerodynamic and will retain more energy at range which is great for hunting, but makes no difference in the confines of home defence. A barrel for your AR is cheaper than a whole new firearm, but feeding it will cost you more in the long run.

[@Gabrong]

for home defense? nah, you need a punt-gun, nothing else does the job

[@johnboynotwalton5886]

In a smaller back yard, and a household of young shooters, PCC's have been an enjoyable alternative to air rifles and 22's. Starting off with those, a rifle-like firearm in a hand gun cartridge has been an easier step than handguns, especially for the children. They are not as loud as the .223 or the 7.62x39 to nearby neighbors, though we still try to be considerate. We really enjoy the SIG MPX and the CZ Scorpion and the FN PS90. For home defense, they are great for mounting lights and lasers on. The PCC's are definitely more optimal for those living in a smaller environment that want to be experienced with an effective weapon, for enjoyment and protection. We also enjoy our AR15's, AK's, and other longer range toys, but have to go somewhere else to enjoy their potential. We do not have any experience with AR15 pistols, namely .300 Blackout, because of the current expense, however hope to someday add that to the collection and be able to offer an incorporated opinion. Thanks for the video and all the things you do and research for the gun community.

[@davidduafala3050]

The PCC is simply quieter overall. When firing inside a structure the noise and flash of the rifle caliber carbine is substantially compared to the tame PCCs. I have heard of police dog handlers using PCCs because it's easier on the dogs ears. The compactness of many PCCs is a plus as well for CQB when compared to rifle caliber carbines. Even when using a handgun it seems many PCCs are extending the same length forward from the shooter. Finally a MAC video that I can fully support.

[@mattwalters6834]

Yep, I always figured the PCCs were still better in size and bulk that an AR short barrel; even if they had Mlok and what not.

[@Town101]

I did shoothouse drills for 2+ years with an MP5 and no one ever said my holes in the target were less than the holes made by longer, cumbersome guns. I'm guessing PCCs have a place except for the upgrade market.

[@hotdog9262]

stribog short is a good example

[@sircunnilingus]

When you said: "I like to suppress everything", I expected you to add something like "especially my feelings". xD

[@spacetexan8695]

Lmao! 😂 underrated

[@Militaryarmschannel]

😂I have an emotional support Emu I keep at the range. When I am triggered by something, I will sit for hours pulling feathers out of my Emu for comfort.

[@philpeterson7182]

@@Militaryarmschannel Whatever keeps you emused... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@korgan7779]

@@Militaryarmschannel That poor Emu, is there anything left after this past year or do you buy them buy the dozen?

[@stefanmolnapor910]

@@Militaryarmschannel 😂😅

[@curesdcookie2992]

Also I feel like there's way more personal defense ammo produced in handgun calibers than rifle calibers. Would be interested to see some range footage of 9mm HP's out of a PCC

[@Petefus]

After watching Mac's CMMG 45 PCC video, I had to get one. But I have an Oly Arms 9mm AR I carried at work to match up with my Glock 17 duty issue, so my CMMG Guard Mkgs was bought in 9mm also. I worked in a small town in the suburbs and I dont think there was many places where you could see a hundred yards, and as congested as it was, I believe the PCC was a better choice than the 556 AR rifles most departments use. Never had need for it, but I was glad it was in the trunk, ready and waiting.

[@Predalien195]

I've done a lot of testing and research on PCC velocity and energy gains as have many others before me. Going from a 4 to 5 inch handgun to a 16 to 18 inch carbine, you're typically gaining a 24% to 30% increase in velocity and a 44% to 50% increase in energy. The reason people say they still suck is because going from 1,100 fps to 1,350 fps in a 9mm doesn't change how the bullet behaves in tissue. It can however change what types of bullets become effective and which types become less effective in handguns however. There are exceptions to the rules however. 10mm, .357 Magnum, .357 Sig, .38 Super, .9x25 Dillon, .45 Super/SMC, .327 Federal Magnum, .44 Magnum, modern +P .45 Colt loads in a carbine, the new 7.5 FK round which already does rifle ballistics in a handgun, 5.7x28mm and lastly, while not a true "pistol" round it's performance is very similar to the above, but .30 Carbine which you can get a sidearm in though options are limited. Any of the above listed calibers all have the potential in a PCC to hit levels of velocity which will turn temporary stretch cavity to permanent stretch cavity which will cause wounds like a rifle round. So while the pool of pistol rounds capable of doing so is limited they still have the potential. But even if you're not using one of those rounds and are just sticking with 9mm, some 9mm loads in 16 inch PCC's can achieve around 1,550 FPS or just below it. Which puts them in the same range as some factory 125gr .357 Magnums in 6 inch barrels. A round that I've never heard anybody call a slouch when it comes to dropping people in self defense. I always make the case, if you trust your pistol to carry you out of a situation you should trust a carbine in the same caliber to also do so. At 100 yards, the typical PCC in a 16 to 18 inch barrel is producing the same level of muzzle energy and velocity that a 4 to 5 inch handgun does at point blank. Now, I doubt you'll be shooting a man at 100 yards with a pistol caliber carbine and NOT going to prison for it short of a breakdown in law and order. That said, it still gives the option to extend your potential range. Which for a hunting situation may be exactly what you'd need or just to have fun at the range. While there is no debate that true rifle rounds are superior to handgun bullets in carbines, there's that logistical aspect of only having to buy magazines, ammo, and things like that for just one caliber. While bugging out should always be the last thing you want to do, do you want to bug out with 3 different types of ammo and magazines or just one type of ammo, one type of magazines, and be armed adequately for both your primary and secondary weapons? If the idea was so stupid and dumb it would not have persisted as long as it has throughout history. And unlike many dumb ideas people try to resurrect because "Now with new technology it's possible!" this isn't one of those things. Personally, I don't care for PCF's or PDW style guns as a whole as a civilian because they offer no major advantage over a typical handgun short of adding more points of contact with the body. Which has advantages in general but I believe in my home and many other homes it's not hard to wield a rifle, carbine, or shotgun. If it's a space limited role like say a vehicle, I understand that a lot more. But space limited was one of the main reasons bullpups were invented. While firing a braced pistol caliber is going to be damage my hearing far less than say firing a 12 gauge inside my car, if I'm in the situation where I need to start shooting people on the other side I believe the damage to my hearing is worth my life. My biggest true gripe with many PCC's however is the fact it's so hard to get a modern gun in 9mm below the 6.5 lb range without shrinking the barrel length down significantly. Using the Ruger PC Carbine as an example. It's a nearly 7 lb gun for 9mm. It's because it's a straight blowback and using a heavy buffer and spring, but that's a serious point of contention for me when guns like the Sub-2000 exist. As a whole, I like PCC's and support their use despite what some may say. I've heard "expert" opinion on the matter and when looking at things from a martial context, better options exist. However from a standpoint of versatility and logistics they have a place. Nobody tells us when trouble is coming, if we knew that say next Wednesday we're going to get attacked by 4 guys outside our house coming home I'd bring an AA-12, park half a block away and blow them all away. But nobody tells us that kind of thing so we get what we think will prepare us best for a multitude of situations. For many, that may be a PCC and there's nothing wrong with that. But tell me I'm getting dropped off in an active conflict zone and I'll happily take an AR-15.

[@UncleDon226]

But then, why not just use a rifle if you are concerned about the lethality?

[@Predalien195]

@@UncleDon226 Rifles in certain scenarios can be overkill depending on where you live and ammunition selection can be very important as well. With PCC's, majority of your JHP's that do well in handguns will do well in the longer barrel as well. Not to mention, some JHP's that do poorly in handguns will do well in PCC's typically. But from a logistical standpoint you only need to stock up on one type of ammo and potentially one type of magazine if you say own a Glock and a PCC that takes Glock magazines. But also it's about extending potential range too. Most people won't shoot far off ever and within said ranges PCC's cover the gap quite well be it from a defensive/offensive standpoint as well as a hunting aspect with certain calibers. I won't pretend they are some magic "do all" type of gun, but truly for a vast majority of gun owners and their activities with them, they somewhat are.

[@UncleDon226]

@@Predalien195 When my life is on the line, "overkill" isnt a thing. And while I agree that you can see 100-200fps more out of a PCC, a rifle is still over 1,000fps faster. In fact, a PCC is still firing a lighter projectile slower than a .357 from a revolver. Barrel length for pistol rounds doesnt have as much effect as people think it does. Magazine interchangeability is neat if I want to have 15-17 rounds per mag as standard, compared to 30 rounds standard with rifle mags. ( I know extended mags exist, but I wouldnt recommend them due to reliability concerns). Ammo compatibility I dont see as something important either. Is it a problem to have two types of ammunition? Sure, I can run out of one type, but then I have another type as backup. What if you run out of your one ammo type. What if you cant get more? Seen it happen last year. I would rather focus on ammo versatility, like being able to chamber both 5.56 Nato and .223 Remmington. Rifles are more effective, more versatile, and more prolific. I'm not telling you what to do. If you wanna go into the end of the world with a Ruger PC or Scorpion EVO, by all means. I just think it is ill advised, since prepping is about securing the best tools while you can. Because if shit pops off, you are stuck with what you have, and I dont want to see you riding the struggle bus using a large pistol with a stock.

[@Predalien195]

@@UncleDon226 Well, as I've said in the past... depending on the pistol cartridge, some start getting performance like a rifle out of rifle length barrels. .357 Magnum is a great example of one such cartridge. The longer the barrel, the better it gets. A 125gr out of an 16 or 18 inch barrel gets down around 2,300 to 2,400 fps which is enough velocity to behave like a rifle. 9mm on the other hand typically won't achieve that unless you pack a +P or +P+ load or extremely lightweight ammo. All of those "What If's" apply to any cartridge and thus aren't worth mentioning. For example.. what if you run out of 5.56/.223 and all you have is 9mm for a sidearm. You're now squarely in the same boat as people with PCC's with less range and less effective capabilities in your book. I do understand the concern that if you run out you're out for all arms. But from a standpoint of transport, size/weight, etc having one type makes a big difference. People defend themselves every day with handguns successfully. I don't see why having a rifle or carbine in the same caliber is an issue. If you're prepping for doomsday scenarios then yeah, you're going to be better off with an AR. But the average person isn't doing that.

[@UncleDon226]

@@Predalien195 You are right, people do defend themselves with pistols every day. But the reason they choose pistols it because of portability and concealability. People survive all the time after being hit multiple times center mass with pistol rounds. Militaries all over the world have done extensive tests and found that the PCC just isnt able to perform satisfactorily against enemy combatants. Thats why you dont see SMGs as much as back in the day. If I am using a pistol it is because I value concealability over performance. If I am defending my house, I would prefer performance over concealability. The PCC is already rifle length, why not get rifle performance as well?

[@sodakhilljack7147]

Whole heartedly agree I traded out my shotgun for a pcc for my bedside peice. This is due to the better ammo for shooting indoors and the sound. I have fired a shotgun indoors and it hurts for days. Also the recoil is non existent and I have a lot more ammo a lot quicker. Tbh this might be the best home defense option just because it takes so much less training to be proficient than with a handgun. Good video Mac thanks

[@captainobvious1721]

Love the coverage on the CX4 storm. Please do that video comparing the old and new side by side. My favorite aspect of PCC's is the fact that I can do really fun running gun drills with them with low noise.

[@v.german11b]

I own a Ruger PC model 19122 9mm carbine tactical (collapsible stock and pistol grip) with a 16" barrel. This is an awesome home defense weapon system. Perfectly suited for urban environments. I use a 147gr hollowpoints amno load, thus decreasing liability due to over penetration and long traveling distance. You miss with a 5.56 cal rifle in an urban environment and that bullet may become a tragic liability nightmare. Hence, I use my PC as the primary weapon for home defense, and I have one of my full size handguns for back up. Only in case of total anarchy, lawlessness, chaos in the streets, or a potential civil war, I would use one of my AR-15 5.56 rifles. The fact of the matter is, police carbines (PC) have tactical use and applications for special purposes. Love your channel content, keep it going! 🇺🇲

[@allenneva5213]

My 1st PCC was a Sig MPX-K that I have turned into a SBR for USPSA competition in PCC division. My 2nd PCF was a B&T APC 10 because I love 10mm.

[@Wargoat6]

Look up the Kiraly 43M. Essentially a PCC but in 9mm Mauser Export. The ballistics are like that of .357 SIG, but out of an 18" barrel. It was well-liked by the soldiers that used it. What's great about the PCC is that almost anyone in your family can use one.

[@ottergt]

Great video! I agree with you 100%. A few more reasons would be as potential lower-cost alternative for training (although not in the current market obviously!), and for those that are maybe more sensitive to noise and muzzle blast (taking the supressor out of the equation). And don't forget, "PCC" also includes those chambered in .357 and .44 Magnums (and 10mm), which allow those hunting in states with straight-walled cartridge restrictions to have a few more options.

[@wannadance40]

Thanks!

[@travissobeck4939]

Does it have a trigger and go boom? Do you enjoy it? Well they're you go, have fun and ignore the know it all's.

[@jackshett]

If it's for fun, yeah I totally agree. Just that I think it's silly to try to justify a rifle-sized pistol for nearly any other reason.

[@AndrewW.]

@@jackshett If the intent is to run subsonic supressed out of a short barrel for home defense, the only common rifle round that can compete with 9mm or 45 acp is 300blk, and subsonic it is very unlikely to expand unless you are using hard to find expensive pre cut subsonic ammo like Lehigh Defense, so 9mm and 45 acp will make bigger permanent wound cavities. If you are saying you don't understand the use of a 16 inch PCC, vs a 16 inch rifle with a similar OAL and weight, I tend to agree, unless again, the intent is to run subsonic. Rifle rounds tend to be ice picks when they get below 2000 fps, let alone below the sound barrier.

[@jackshett]

@@AndrewW. If I went subsonic on my 300 blackout for self defense then I would likely get a frangible round of some kind. I can see the merit in suppressed and subsonics but I will almost certainly use supers even with the suppressor I'm waiting to take possession of. Going subs with any carbine is pretty comparable to a handgun at that point unfortunately... Just more mass with the same speed. Also, I'm perfectly okay with buying expensive defense ammo since you don't need much of it and zeroing at those ranges isn't too important in terms of practice

[@AndrewW.]

@@jackshett Agreed, high velocity rifle rounds make very nasty wounds and the hydrostatic shock causes a good psychological response, if you are ok with the downsides of possibly running that type of round for home defense in the dark without ear pro, then you are good to go, it would be nice to be able to train for that without causing hearing damage. If money and the capability of finding ammo was no object, 300blk is very good subsonic, and devastating supersonic with good frangible ammo. I still don't know which I prefer, subsonic supressed 9mm/45acp hollow points, or 2000fps 300blk supressed for home defense.

[@jackshett]

@@AndrewW. supers with the right suppressor can still be hearing safe. I'm more likely to use a pistol with how they usually play out though but options are good to have

[@ExtremelyRightWing]

My first gun is a Keltec Sub2000. Ive only put about 2000 rounds through it, but its only jammed about 3 times. I got to where i was hitting tomatoes at 50yds with the iron sights. I love that gun.

[@hi-techhomestead]

While I typically default to my AR for most defensive uses, my wife really likes her Ruger PC9 (she already carries a Glock 19 so only worries about one magazine type) and feels more comfortable with it. The AR "looked complicated" and she was less apt to train with it. But with the Ruger, it looks more like a traditional semi-auto (like a 10/22) and she feels less intimidated so she practices more because it is less of a chore. She already thinks that once she feels more comfortable with reloads / manual of arms with the Ruger PC9, she is going to give her AR another try.

[@Izzy235634]

Spot on. One of the main reasons I use and own PCCs is because of restrictions in rifle calibers at different ranges or competition events. For example, USPSA only allows for pistol calibers, so I run a PCC configured very close to my rifle setup, and am still able to apply the skills and training. Additionally, during non-panic-buying times, pistol caliber ammunition can be cheaper than rifle calibers for the most part, making it more economical to shoot in volume. Lastly, PCCs are easier to shorten down to very small barrel lengths, and can make for very small concealable packages without running into cycling issues or large concussive muzzle flashes which can be experienced on very short rifle caliber gas guns. Obviously there are exceptions. Also, some suppressors have rifle caliber barrel length restrictions, making it easier to suppress shorter pistol calibers barrels. I still prefer rifle calibers for general use. But PCCs have their place.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

👍

[@countryboyguns]

I personally LOVE PCCs. I've got 3 at the moment, but there are so many others on my wishlist lol. I like that (in normal times) the ammo is way more affordable than most rifle ammo. Great video, brother.

[@basketofdeplorables4253]

And when reloading it only takes 4-6 grains of powder vs 20+ for rifles.

[@jbazan11]

Agreed and pcc aren’t as loud as a rifle caliber too

[@brixalpha]

They can be addictive, but what isn't in the firearms world. I am in the same boat once I think I have what I want there is always something new that comes out that I want.

[@countryboyguns]

@@brixalpha you and me both, brother...

[@todortodorov9268]

Do you have any experience in hunting with a longer barrel PCC? I am thinking of buying one and I wonder if it is going to do the job against a coyote at about 100-120yards max?

[@judeg.8101]

Turned my glock 22 gen3 into a carbine using the Apex meta tactical with the 16 barrel. Nerve damage in my arms made it difficult to hold on target. The extra contact with the frame made a huge impact on my shooting.

[@creaturecore13]

Love my CX4, never had a malfunction at the range.

[@keitho9066]

Picking up my aero EPC today. Planning to get a can and set this up for home defense. Mainly it will be cheaper to shoot and I have an AR already.

[@lynch6642]

Pistol calibers put holes in things, rifle calibers put holes through things..... (Clint Smith), Thunder Ranch

[@Damen178]

"Shotguns, with the right load at the right range will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit onto the floor." - also Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.

[@lynch6642]

@@Damen178 lol, Hell ya

[@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern]

"pistol braces are cheating" - also clint smith.

[@Jeff.78]

I wouldn't have a .380 up my ass if I had room for a tugboat. -Clint Smith

[@crabwalkarms7347]

@@glasshammer291 more like force a change be it good or bad it does demonstrate how pointless the NFA is though

[@cosmicatrophy4648]

Love seeing the split screen shooting and target impact in real time.

[@jerrybobteasdale]

If 9mm is enough for the job, then firing it from a rifle form factor will be better. The sight radius, grip, and option to shoulder the gun are big advantages.

[@UncleDon226]

Is it enough for the job? It's surprisingly common for people to be shot multiple times center mass with a 9mm and survive... To me, the only reason 9mm exists is because handguns are concealable.

[@mattwalters6834]

@@UncleDon226 that can happen with almost all calibers, even intermediate and rifle.

[@UncleDon226]

@@mattwalters6834 I never said it couldnt happen. What I am saying is it is significantly less common for someone to be shot center mass with a rifle rather than a pistol- especially 9mm- and survive. Then again, Joe Biden said a 9mm will blow the lungs clean out of the body, so I guess you're right- 9mm is plenty powerful

[@gameragodzilla]

@@UncleDon226 Wouldn’t happen with 12 gauge buckshot, though. That’s a practically guaranteed insta-stop.

[@UncleDon226]

@@gameragodzilla The over-looked and under-valued meat-confetti maker. Gotta love the old scattergun

[@in_haunt]

I'm pining for a Kriss Vector in 10mm at the moment. Get some hot loads like the Barnes Extreme Defender, train up to be effective with a 1-2 point sling in lieu of a brace (easier or throw in a small to medium size backpack / conceal, plus don't have to worry about any sudden change in laws). Throw an Aim Point ACRO 2 and a light on that baby, and we're ready to rock. Thinking a Vertx Ready Pack or Commuter. Modular, and can take armor plates if I so choose.

[@christophernemeth421]

Great video! I'm a fan of PCC'S and love the looks of that FDE CX4!

[@kuzmalebedev6101]

I like PCC because you can safely shoot it at steel targets at short ranges. I.e. IPSC rules prohibit shooting rifle rounds into steel at less then 50 meters. While you can shoot steel plates using PCC being just 7 meters away. As a result you can have a PCC match with 'fast' and dynamic exercises.

[@kuzmalebedev6101]

​@The Weapon Collection I am specifically talking about IPSC and USPSA rules which allow engaging steel targets at relatively close ranges using PCC, but not using rifle.

[@myelling7773]

I like them because they're lighter and (typically) smaller than their rifle counterparts. I'd love to get a bullpup PCC for home defense. Something like a P90 or similar. Although there aren't many options out there for consideration.

[@armisteadlucascolemanii7256]

The SP90 is a great rifle. Though the ammunition is probably not the best choice if you have others in the house. A bit more penatration than a 9mm or a 45 apc.

[@jackdaniels1839]

Check out the combination of a High Point PCC and a High Tower bull-pup conversion stock. There are videos on this on KZbin.

[@zombieslayer7759]

The Jard J68 Bullpup Carbine might be a good option. They are relatively affordable and come in a variety of calibers.

[@1zanglang]

An AUG in 9mm...

[@armisteadlucascolemanii7256]

@@1zanglang or the IWI X95

[@RobsGamingNetwork]

@2:50 correct. The indoor range I go to allows steel cased ammunition, but no bi-metal and no hollowpoints. They are fine with me firing steel cased 7.62 x 39mm or 223 remington, but anything with really high muzzle velocities are left to the discretion of the range officer. (2800+)(Support the MAC team, I am a patreon donor!)

[@rigidsphate]

Can't wait to see that B&T SPC video!

[@ryanstucke7811]

Yes!

[@richardavery2244]

PCC , is a great home defense weapon for all the reasons you spoke of, including the fact that you have a wide selection of pistol calibers you can purchase in the PCC platform, starting with .380, 9mm, .40 S&W, 45 acp, 10 mm, 357 and 44 mag which is hard to find. So you can hunt wild pig or wild boars with a PCC in 10mm or 357, 44 mag.

[@82hellas]

Always loved CX4 Storm. The “plastic space gun” trend of the 2000s. Would love a F2000 and a XM8 to go with it.

[@sasavulic1236]

i cant get over that he didn't mention battlestar Galactica.Yenky would.

[@lexbustamante757]

I love mine for plinking, I totally agree with MAC. MY AKV and FX9 are so much fun.

[@brookford1757]

Loved the channel for a decade now. You the man Tim 🤙

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Thank you for putting up with me for a decade. 👍

[@randy74989]

I pulled the trigger last Friday and bought the Saint Victor 9mm PCC from Bud's. Got the cash price and Springfield is running a rebate until January 31, 2024, on their NEW SAINT OR HELLION rifles. I researched quite a few PCCs in and around the mid-tier price point and this one met my expectations and the rebate is a plus. I wanted to match up a 9mm PCC with my three 9mm handguns and only stock 9mm ammo in various defense loads. I shall be buying the Federal HST 147 grain, the G9 Defense 9mm 126 grain Subsonic, or the Hornady XTP 147 grain ammo for my home defense Saint PCC.

[@michaeltaylor3253]

But Clint Smith said... Oh well. Different strokes for different folks. If you can shoot what you got, you have that going for you. I have no use for a PCC, but that doesn't mean they have no purpose. Keep sending it down range.

[@ariesj84]

One other reason I'd add is general firepower, especially in the case of home/property defense use. With a PCC/PCF you will have less recoil impulse, resulting in faster follow up shots. A (usually) greater magazine capacity as standard and the ability to mount better force multipliers only adds to the overall firepower, I would say. The ability to fire a handgun fast and accurately takes some training to achieve. However, with a PCC, even newer shooters can fire fast and more accurately.

[@almaadams3631]

Even 9mm.blow back has about the same recoil impulse as .556 DI. MPX is a little better but limited production has driven the price(magazines as well) way over what they cost to produce. Buy a 10" AR and put a Witt Machine forward mitigation device and you a good! Maxim defence makes some short tube buffer braces if you want short as possible. I realize you are comparing to pistols but short( 223/556)AR is easy to handle for new shooters as well.

[@ferretsmiles]

@@almaadams3631 there are other guns besides the mpx and blowback pccs. besides there are legal reasons to not want an ar pistol

[@davidcastle3986]

Great Video. Can't wait for the B&T

[@briansmith76251]

As a reloader you can really dial in specific loads to take advantage of the longer barrel on a PCC. 124gr @ 1600fps at only 36kpsi is a consistent 300yard load.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Yup, I've done the same back when I reloaded. Thanks for watching.

[@funkla65]

Would be nice if Beretta had an APX magazine option for the CX4.

[@03Grunt-arrino]

They should release their new PMX with that option too

[@funkla65]

@@03Grunt-arrino that would be cool, but the feed angle would require a major redesign.

[@Mr.Ut21]

I love how guys who buy expensive ass guns bitch about their proprietary shit. Just buy an m9 mag. Not. Expensive.

[@funkla65]

@@Mr.Ut21 Beretta markets the CX on the basis of being able to swap mags with Beretta pistols. I don't think it's unreasonable to hope they'd offer that support to APX owners. And maybe they won't, because maybe it would require an all new lower because the mag release is substantially different.

[@tjc20]

There are also many 9mm PCC/firearms which are quite a bit lighter and more compact. Can be a great option for carrying in a backpack while camping or hiking.

[@meltonscott18]

I have a CZ Scorpion 🦂... love it

[@lucastrask2838]

I have a Sub2000 that takes the thirty round Beretta mags. With a red dot it is fantastic out to 75 yards. Hit the eight inch gong every time quickly. What I like about the PCC is my wife enjoys shooting it while she won't bother with the AR15 or any of the heavier rifles. For around the house it handles closer to a pistol than a rifle and hits harder than even a full size pistol. My defense load chronographs 200 fps better than out of my CZ SP-01. That's enough difference to make a difference. No over penetration problems unlike every rifle and the muzzle blast in a dark hallway is less than a pistol and a fraction of what even a .223 produces. I prefer a short shotgun but I also like 29 follow up shots. Biggest advantage over the .223 'pistols' is no brace legal problems that will occur after they decide that brace makes your pistol a SBR.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

There are many reasons PCC's are practical and fun. Thanks for watching.

[@Nathan123Davis]

You should deffo do a video on a cx4 storm. It takes beretta 92 magazines, it's lightweight and quite compact for a rifle with a 16 inch barrel. And before the crazy price hike in all guns there were very cheap also.

[@daniellea5789]

I love my CX4... one of the few guns I can say has never malfunctioned on my (it eats anything ammo wise). Without doubt one of my favorite things in my safe.

[@armisteadlucascolemanii7256]

They are a great little gun. That was the first one I bought my son years ago when he was a kid. He still has it!

[@skepticalbadger]

Er, it's in this video.

[@trunkmonkey56]

Just got a 357mag Henry model X lever PCC. My only and first PCC. With 38special and a suppressor it is silly fun. I do enjoy how 357mag sound as well given the added velocity and terminal effectiveness from a carbine.

[@chrismyers7017]

Would love to see a follow up video to the Hi-Point 10mm carbine.

[@kennethcurtis1856]

I think he has done a video on the 10mm Hi Point.

[@fmpabxx7834]

I have a daniel deffence Ar-10,desert eagle,5.56 ar-15 and I still chose my PCC for home defence.

[@ke6ziu]

Hey, even Kel-Tec makes a decent PCC in their Sub2k! You do have to do some work on them, in order to help with recoil. Plus, I'm interested in getting a Ruger PCC in 9mm... I plan on putting all of that into a Midwest Industries chassis... Did it with my 10/22 takedown!

[@kinjunranger140]

I have the Kel-Tec (MCARBO part upgrades), The Ruger PCC (I just got), and an FM9 (which I shoot a lot.) Love the two I have shot, haven't shot my Ruger yet. Enjoy.

[@nicke1903]

I like the classic look of the PCC and its a Takedown, I'd like to have one in SS and a dark stock (Think Marlin 336 SBL, I dont know what color youd call it) just something different I guess, but a Midwest Handguard would be nice addition too.

[@clamum]

I shot my friend's Sub2000 yesterday and he mentioned it recoiled a bit but I didn't think so at all. I mean you feel it more because your cheek is right next to the bar stock but I didn't think it recoiled that much. I didn't care for it only because I really had to jam my head into the stock to see thru the sights and even then I couldn't see them fully. Makes me wonder if the developers even shot it, I'd never let that go out the door if I was a designer of it.

[@ke6ziu]

@@clamum if you're going to own a Sub2k, you MUST do those MCarbo updates... Just the sleeve and the buffer alone, help to reduce the felt recoil, as well as the violent vibration you often feel when the bolt goes back in the stock tube!!! Plus, the MCarbo pad helps to reduce the recoil on the shoulder (that plastic buttstock REALLY cuts into your shoulder!!!)... It's hard to believe that a pistol calibre cartridge can have as much recoil as a .40 or 9MM!!!

[@ke6ziu]

@@kinjunranger140 I've done them as well... I have a .40 Glock variant, and let me tell you... if I hadn't done those mods, I probably would've sold that thing! Now that I've done them, it's pleasant to shoot! If my wife can handle my .40 Sub2k, anyone can! Now, it's a tack driver out to 100 yds!

[@matzlep]

I like to use pcc’s when I bring newer shooters to the range. Sometimes they’re a bit nervous about shooting an AR right away, so I have them try a pcc first

[@HopsAndLead]

Depends on barrel length. My AR9 has a 8.5" barrel and it seems like that is the best length for 9mm without getting too long.

[@dbmail545]

Pretty much. The powders used in pistol cartridges are optimized for shorter barrels and actually start to lose MV above 10"

[@tacticaltruth6Actual]

Yep! 8.83" barrel MP5 for me.

[@mattwalters6834]

Depends, the 16” barrel will give a little extra velocity over others but I think the debates over the length are blown out of proportion. If you’ve ever held the Ruger Pcc9, you’ll see that it’s still compact even with a 16” barrel; I do like the braced pistols though.

[@HopsAndLead]

@@mattwalters6834 For me, It's all about diminishing returns. When you stop gaining a large amount of FPS per inch, just stop at that length.

[@stevenkennedy4130]

I bought an AK-V. It has the MAC Bracket! Thanks for the share!!

[@eliher7868]

Gotta love the baby Grogu in the back about to get some!!

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Grogu is a permanent fixture on the range now. LOL

[@saltcreekammo]

GAY.

[@benjaminaustin7055]

This is the way.

[@scbindy]

Enjoy your channel. I'm a PCC fan as well and enjoyed this post particularly. Fellow Hoosier.

[@PandasFknRule]

Oh that SPC9 has me interested.

[@perryparsons9960]

That my PCC uses both the same caliber and mag as my carry gun in some situations, is huge. I can carry a Glock 26 and Kel Tec Sub 2000, while working, and have 6 fun sticks on tap. 180 rounds (I know, will hold 33 rounds, my OCD wants a rounded off count and less spring tension). Rocking the Galco cross draw fanny pack, in the woods is amazing, can carry it all day and no sweat, no stress. Coupled with the truck gun 2K, and a buttload of spare ammo, is magnificent.

[@sixtofive]

And don't forget, just for fun can be a completely valid reason!

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi Tim, I don't own a pcc myself but I know people who can compete with rifles indoor thanks to the PCC and to the "mini rifle" (semiautomatic rifle in .22 lr). They enjoy this a lot. Also, I know that some use adaptors in single shot shotguns to fire pistol rounds, turning the shotgun into a pcc, Dave Canterbury popularized the idea.

[@armisteadlucascolemanii7256]

The X4 storm is rad! Great rife

[@ReverendMeat51]

At my last range they let you shoot PCCs in the action pistol bays but not rifles. People whining about "muh ballistics" forget that sometimes it's okay to shoot for fun and guns you can actually shoot are more fun than guns you can't.

[@jaws2003]

I like you can just buy one type of ammo and have a lot of versatility with a PCC. If you need to leave a location then that's less calibers to bring.

[@spacetexan8695]

and if anyone says it don’t have enough stopping power... tell them your not a marine in Iraq but a civilian gtgo of dodge and only need a bit of keep yo head down fool to escape

[@honkhonk1555]

@@spacetexan8695 don’t need stopping power when you aim for the head. 22 works just fine at a 100 yards and less. Now if they get behind some decent cover that a pistol round doesn’t penetrate, that would suck. Lol

[@spacetexan8695]

@@honkhonk1555 but I’ll reiterate I’m not trying to kill you 😂❤️, a pistol caliber will make you want to keep yourself BEHIND the engine block while I find an exit. Because fuck a gunfight 😂

[@snek9353]

Yet you'd bring multiple guns?

[@jutde]

@@snek9353 Yes. 2 is 1, 1 is none. Having a primary rifle with a backup handgun is the bare minimum to ensure that you have something that will go bang when you need it to. Having those guns share the same caliber is a big plus. Having those guns share the same magazines is ideal.

[@theredcelt627]

I also appreciate that a 9mm JHP is more likely to be greatly reduced in energy or possibly stopped by walls, so I’m more comfortable about using in a home defense situation with the possibility of having rounds go beyond my target.

[@johnconnolly5292]

Actually a 9mm, either ball or hp is more likely to penetrate interior walls than a 55gr 5.56 ball. The 556 will on average penetrate two sheets of drywall at which time the round has flattened out and deformed to the point that it rarely has the penetration power to go through a full third sheet of drywall. 9mm ball will usually penetrate through many more layers of drywall, and hp usually doesn’t mushroom, the nose cavity gets impacted with drywall and essentially turns the round into a ball. This is the reason why swat teams abandoned 9mm years ago and turned to 556. Ironically the reason wasn’t for increased lethality but rather because of the greater liability of using 9mm.

[@cloojure]

A PCC is a great companion to a handgun, esp. when can use same mags & ammo, and also get 15% more power. However, the biggest benefit for me is the greatly increased accuracy, esp. with a red-dot compared to iron sights. Some (such as the Ruger PC Carbine I own) come in take-down models as well.

[@RadDadisRad]

IE a Krizz Vector, Glock mags are freakin reliable.

[@EEDad401]

Nice to see you giving the CX4 Storm some love.

[@kryogenik2073]

Tim of MAC : "5 reasons why PCCs don't suck" *Clint Smith has entered the chat*

[@jed4791]

Also Clint Smith "You're not paying a tax stamp, you're not doing it right"

[@jed4791]

​@@glasshammer291 Yes and? They also want to take all semi autos, so I guess get ride of everything because they might use it against us.

[@Gl0ckb1te]

@@jed4791 glass hammer is part of the problem. These cowardly worries and compliances is what will continue to lead our movement to the cliff or gallows to its death. Non-compliance works, look at all the weed laws ignored in many states. It was a movement and now fed law is ignored by most states.

[@HalfbreedTrini]

@@jed4791 I was kinda floored when he said that too. I won’t judge the man cuz I’m sure he has his reasons, and I’m not really interested in AR pistols anyway, but it kind of seems like he’s throwing shade on people who go that route

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Clint Smith: "Braces are cheating and it will come back around to bite us". 😂

[@jasonholloman657]

When you consider the reasons you might choose a long gun over a handgun a few are most often mentioned. Better range, easier to be precise and higher capacity. All of those are accurate attributes to a PCC.

[@mattwalters6834]

More energy as well

[@UncleDon226]

Then just get a rifle. Duh. PCC is a solution seeking a problem. They have no tactical purpose, and people know this. Thats why everyone is so evangelical about how much better than a pistol it is (as if that's a high bar to meet). I am positive that they are really trying to convince themselves. Everything a PCC does, a rifle does better. The few things pistols have at their advantage (maneuverability and concealability), a PCC doesnt. Just admit that you got it because its fun. Thats a good reason, and 4 out of every 5 guns I own is because they are fun. You dont see me trying to convince people on the internet why a .50AE desert eagle "is good for home defense, ahktchually"

[@aktexas1973]

Can’t say they suck I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of one ever.

[@lukeywalsh]

Shoot a Ruger 9mm PCC. Inaddition to what was said in the video... - In normal times cheap, American made brass range ammo - Very good for home defense. (For homestead defense I'd go 223/556) - Less likely to go through wall into neighbors house in self defense situations - Can get subsonic - Good recoil management. 223 is too, but check out JP Rifles new 9mm PCC. Extremely steady muzzle for tight double tap groups and/or faster target reacquisition. - Good in ban states where chices are limited to $1,000 Mini 14 or vandalized (thus higher priced) ARs with fixed mags or featureless. - Fun. Can plink to my hearts content - Easy for older shooters, especially people with dominant hand grip issues from osteoarthritis - Light (except for my Ruger...LOL)

[@Saintbow]

"Can create an unsafe condition" We call it *Fire* ... It would set the place on *Fire*

[@NMiller_]

The first gun I ever purchased was a PCC because I could load up on 9mm and go to my indoor range, but I could also purchase w/o the HQL that MD requires. It was admittedly a compromise, but it meant getting a gun that day, that I could actually train with. Also, it was a Kriss Vector... so... yeah...

[@Evergreen1400]

I looooooove my Extar EP9 it’s by far the most enjoyable Gun I have.

[@timothytikker3834]

Same here!

[@Evergreen1400]

@@timothytikker3834. There was a guy in the Extar Reddit group that was making replacement aluminum hand guards for the EP9, I was super excited to get one he was supposed to have some in stock a few months ago but he never notified anyone and isn’t returning any emails, so that kinda sucks because the hand guards he was making were really nice with Mlok slots if I remember correctly.

[@justme_gb]

My 9mm carbine has the identical manual-of-arms as other rifles/carbines. The main advantage used to be $0.18 vs. $0.37 per training round.

[@DevTheBigManUno]

Honestly I wish we supported PCC's more. Pistol caliber items should 100% be dropped from the larger ATF rulings.

[@darbovision2672]

They're just plain fun to shoot! And so easy to shoot accurately. I have a CX4 set up to use PX4 magazines. The trigger in the CX4 leaves a little to be desired but I feel I got lucky and mine has a usable trigger. I did not know Beretta produced a FDE model...looks good!

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Bingo! I meant to include this in the video... Beretta just started importing the FDE guns. It's a new product. When I saw it come into Copper I snagged it. 😂

[@NightmareGbg]

I love my Ruger PCC, fun, easy and ''cheap'' to shoot. I'm supprised we still get to own them here in Sweden.

[@manganvbg90]

I got one here aswell, and an mp5 (last one not for hunting though 🥲) just hate Swedens barrel length req for hunting. 16” is enough.

[@NightmareGbg]

@@manganvbg90 Yea, the barrel is a bit long. As soon i'll find a club that allows it i'll get a shorter one.

[@mattandrews8528]

As much as I love my .300blk ar pistols more because they put 3-4x the energy down range, I can’t deny my Ruger PCC is lighter and can be taken down easily. I would still use my .300blk AR pistol over it for hunting or most self defense situations, if I’m on the go and want a light and effective weapon in a bag or in my truck the little Charger can hold its own with a 32rnd mag and some attachments like a nice sight brace, and laser/light. Shoot the expensive higher quality P+ ammo and you can try to close the massive ft lbs of energy gap between pistol and rifle calibers. With pistol calibers meant to be full auto to be effective to, I wouldn’t use a 9mm or .45 in semi auto to expect it to be effective, go higher up on the energy being put out per shot if one can’t put many shots down range like a full auto 9mm sub machine gun. If you live in a state that allows fun triggers like binary mode and it’s a really low lb weight trigger pull then hey, go crazy with the pistol calibers. If not, and you got a normal trigger as a normal man, grab the .300blk at the house, but on the go, man Ruger made the perfect little pdw. Now if it was just in 5.7 🤔

[@zorro456]

Plus if your Pistol Caliber is a .357 or .44 Magnum, Much more power nearing or equaling lever action rifle cartridges.

[@starlinsims2969]

Love my hi piont 45 carbine. Where's the 10mm hi point carbine?

[@darinmiller2405]

It's out now even a pistol

[@glennschunemann4800]

I settled on PCC for the house. I am not particularly interested in touching off 556 rounds from 16 inch barrel indoors. And no, I don’t have any suppressors. My round of choice is federal HST 147 grain

[@Justice-ian]

It depends on which "PCC" definition you're using. Braced pistols and pistol-caliber SBRs (especially 10mm) have definite advantages for certain roles. In a carbine that meets US rifle barrel length and OAL requirements, intermediate rifle cartridges have strong advantages in just about every objective category.

[@ShaneABaker]

Back before the ammo crunch, I could get 3 boxes if 9mm for my Ruger PCC and shoot all weekend for less than 40 dollars.

[@ben41281]

The way I see it is, PCC's are the modern M1 Carbines. And they can kind of fill the same general role for civilians. They bridge the gap between the relatively close range effectiveness of a pistol, and 200+ yard effectiveness of a true rifle. And let's be brutally honest, at down the hallway distances, AVERAGE shooters will be more likely to place rounds on target than with a handgun. And for some shooters, they are less intimidating to learn with, than a full power rifle. And with todays take-down PCC's, they are really great backpack guns, truck guns, or guns that can simply be tucked away in ways that full size rifles wouldn't be able to. If you get one of the lever action 1892 or 1873 Winchester reproductions in either .357 magnum or .44 magnum, you'll have a very potent RIFLE (as those rounds do approach rifle velocities from 16+ inch barrels). And the lever action PCC's are usually legal to own, in places that the semi-auto true rifles aren't. There are so many good uses for PCC's, that it's really hard to argue against owning at least one.

[@Dcm193]

357 magnum with a hot 125 grain load will roughly hit 2100 FPS. Or I can rock a 10.3 inch ar and shoot mk262 cheaper and with less penetration and bigger wound cavities

[@maledetto1221]

Another thing about indoor ranges: concussion. In some ranges even with ear pro made for rifles the after a long session you feel a little bit of ring in the ears, with PCC the sound is very mitigated and less painfull than full power rifle rounds from a short barrel.

[@jager6863]

The "Myth" of the Cowboy with a rifle and carbine in the same caliber, is largely a myth. The 44 Henry, 44 American, 44 Russian, 45 Schofield and the 45 Colt and the rest weren't chambered in rifles and pistol calibers at the time. In 1877, a year after Little Bighorn, Colt finally chambered the 1873 in 44-40 Winchester to match the 1873 Winchester rifles. Colt made 44 Henry models starting in 1875 through 1880, only around 1,800 and most were shipped to dealers in Mexico and South America. 38-40 wasn't chambered by Colt until after 1878 and 32-20 in 1884. To put this in context, by 1883 most of the Buffalo were dead and Indians were either dead too or living on reservations, the "Frontier" was a done deal at that point. Of course Hollywood didn't care about facts, so its common to see cowboys in the 1860's & 1870's with 1892 and 1894 Winchester rifles and "smokeless powder framed" (from 1896) matching caliber Colts. Some Myths never die and the Interchangeable carbine and pistol caliber guns conquering the West really wasn't a thing. Most settlers were poor and were lucky to have a breech loading shotgun, but more likely a muzzle loader surplused by the Army.

[@AgentXRifle]

Yeah, I wish he did a bit more historical research before basically saying ‘it’s a modern cowboy gun’

[@Taegashi]

Even though he was wrong about the historical fact, the general idea is still valid. Having the same caliber as your handgun is a benefit.

[@mattwalters6834]

@@AgentXRifle really? I thought you did have guys running lever guns and revolvers in the same caliber.

[@libertarianGO]

I have a 10" PCP in 9mm that pushes a 147gr bullet at 1200 fps. The bullet "over expands" but still penetrates to 14" great effect. Those people who say that don't have much to offer don't consider the plus they give to pistols especially when talking about new shooters and home defense.

[@hunterjackson802]

Ruger pc9 carbine is an awesome addition as a truck gun, plus it takes glock mags!

[@c.j.rogers2422]

What optic do you use? I started with a reflex dot, but my astigmatism shows a blurred starburst. I'm thinking of going with 1-4, AR-style, with true 1x & red dot, to cover my bases near and...not so near. And yes, PC9 is a blast.

[@hunterjackson802]

@@c.j.rogers2422 i have the pc9 with built in irons, I absolutely love them. Precise and very quick. Eventually may get a 1-10, vortex razorback or eotech voodoo which are pretty much the cream of the crop as far as lpvos go (they are expensive), they work better for astigmatisms, maybe using a prism optic would work out. I currently run a holosun red dot on my 10.5 ar and its been great so far. Alot of people have said eotech holographic sights work with people who have eye probs, i would go to a shop and test them out.

[@c.j.rogers2422]

@@hunterjackson802 I agree, the pc9 irons are excellent. Unfortunately for me, I need magnification for anything resembling precision beyond spitting distance. I have a recently acquired Extar EP9 for close-up play; I wish I could put the PC9 sights on that!

[@TheKalkara131]

I don't have anything really against PCCs, I imagine they're fun to shoot. But when it comes to serious self defense/duty use, I always remember something I believe James Yeager said. It's a rifle or SBR sized gun shooting a pistol cartridge.

[@Mazryonh]

If certain handgun calibers are good for handgun hunting of deer-sized game, like the 10mm Auto, you can bet they get some more juice when fired out of a longer barrel, like the civilian-legal 16-inch barrel commonly seen on PCCs. Besides, you get the benefits that MAC mentioned; ammunition commonality with a sidearm, and much less blast and flash than a rifle-caliber weapon when fired, even when unsuppressed.

[@kirkmooneyham]

James Yeager, lol...

[@DevonReclaimed]

There's a glaring lack of 357 Sig pccs on the market especially when the terminal ballistics only get better as the barrel length increases.

[@dilldowschwagginz2674]

I run a 8.5" heavy profile barrel on my AR9 (PX9 dedicated lower). It's surprisingly versatile in this configuration and still very compact

[@snek9353]

Same size as a 300Blk with half the power and twice the recoil, sure that makes sense.

[@17cmmittlererminenwerfer81]

"We will not comply" it says on his wall. While rushing to assure everyone that his gun is a fully NFA-compliant registered SBR.

[@17cmmittlererminenwerfer81]

@@monoXcide01 Obviously but you must see the irony: Mr. Defy-any-new-gun-laws is bending over backwards to comply with the existing gun laws.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

@@monoXcide01 He's what's commonly referred to as a "troll". In this case I would also say he's probably got an IQ roughly that of his shoe size. Jump over to his channel and see how many illegal firearms he's flaunting.

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

​@@Militaryarmschannel I think there's a middle ground, though. There's a difference between flaunting illegal weapons on your YT channel - which is unfathomably stupid - and going into detail and bending over backwards to make sure you're referring to everything by the ATF's chosen bullshit nomenclature. Personally, i'd show the guns and just ignore whatever form it happens to come in.

[@Arkancide]

@@JohnSmith-yx8kf You clearly don't understand the lengths KZbin will go to in regards to fucking with people. Deletions without notice, strikes, and bans come quickly to the ignorant and the defiant alike. Remember that Google owns KZbin, and the lady running it gave HERSELF a freedom of speech award while suppressing/harassing any speech that goes against her or her parent company's politics. That is where average viewers and YT channel people diverge. YTers want to keep doing their thing, even if it requires putting on a show for 'the man'. Viewers have the option of openly and defiantly sticking to their ideals without losing anything but the ability to post comments and Like or Dislike. I struggle with the YT way as well, but not as a guy with a channel I enjoy making videos on, nor as someone who makes revenue through it. As they say, "Don't hate the player, hate the Game."

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

@@Arkancide I find it hard to believe that anyone at KZbin has ANY idea about what firearm setups are legal or illegal. I think a simple "this is a pistol" or "this is an SBR" and move on is perfectly acceptable. There are plenty of other youtube channels who show firearms in various configurations and don't mention or barely mention the technical legalities of whatever they're using. Car channels don't spend 5 minutes showing that their cars are in road legal state, because the presumption is obviously that they aren't breaking the law. One step further down this logical path and everyone will be showing their suppressor tax stamps on every video. This community needs to stop policing itself with rules that it doesn't even agree with.

[@bikerbobcat]

I have the Ruger PC9 carbine and the Security 9 compact pistol. Same caliber, same magazines, both great to shoot. I'm limited to 10rd magazines in Maryland but if I ever get a Glock pistol I can easily swap the included magazine well on the rifle and use those, too.

[@ETHRON1]

Even the State Patrol officers I know say SBR laws are stupid....and they are.

[@vic2796]

Yes they are

[@arikjohnson412]

Recover Tactical’s 20/20 brace system makes a Glock into a perfect PCC/PCF with can and RDS on a rail system. Moving all my non-MOS Glocks to threaded barrels and 20/20 braces this year so the MOS equipped can serve as on-body CCW.

[@CommandoLAX]

I love seeing the CX4 Storm coming back. That new tan version looks great, and I might have to pick one up. Also, as a long time levergun fan, I have to say the "Pistol caliber carbine" concept sure isn't a new concept: it's just coming back in style!

[@gapster46]

I have a Kel-Tec Sub 2k that I haven’t shot for years till I shot it last week. I forgot how much fun it was to shoot. I also have a Marlin Camp 9 that I bought brand new in 1985. Lot of fun without the recoil.

[@Thorn19774]

*Clint Smith has entered the chat*

[@joshuacovell642]

Was looking for this

[@jsnjyn]

And Clint said *NO,* just *NO.* 😂

[@ghostshadow9046]

My PPC is an M1 carbine in 45 Win Mag, have taken a moose with it single shot, no follow up shots required, really nice is it still uses stock M1 carbine magazines.

[@snek9353]

derp