70 years and little has changed: FAL vs SCAR

[@F2007KR]

FALs are the most gorgeous black rifles ever.

[@jeffbetts4254]

I still like the FAL's looks.

[@Jack-ur5or]

Perfection is beauty…

[@Khanclansith]

Well, I would say the three things that massively changed in the last 50 years are; 1) Computer Assisted Design 2) material Science 3) emphasis on modular accessories The real interesting look is at 75 and 100 years...

[@Barbaroossa]

And optics as well.

[@Joe-hz1nw]

@@Barbaroossa100% optics and all the other “bolt ons” that are force multipliers.

[@sandwichartist5053]

That was very insightful analysis, especially the cap and ball revolver reference. This is why I enjoy your channel so much

[@Huntinggearguy]

Flexibility and ergonomics are both much better in the last 30 years. It's now trivial to add optics on a solid mount and still get a cheek weld. You can add NV or laser/light combos, bipods can be added or removed. On ergonomics, rifles can be actually fitted to people: left or righties, long arms or short, left charge or right, that new mag will insert faster and drop free, even the safeties and bolt hold opens are great now.

[@Puckles14]

Love the content, been watching for years. You are the reason I bought a PTR91 because I think its cool, and I love .308.

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Awesome! Thank you for watching and for the support.

[@mythguard6865]

As it says in Ecclesiastes “Nothing is new under the sun”

[@scottzickefoose9829]

I went to the NRA show in Phoenix some years ago. At the FN booth they had a prototype/early production SCAR. The mag WAS a FAL mag. The little tab at the front had been flattened and the rear rib was still there. The side of the mag did have the new hole for the new/AR style mag release.

[@martinlag3234]

I've been following the channel for more than 11 years, and it still is one of the best! Always interesting content. Thanks from Sweden.

[@riley4198]

You should do a follow up video on the DSA58, they’ve improved the rifle a lot over the last couple years.

[@petesheppard1709]

Different materials, a bit of system juggling, but nothing has really changed in the better part of a century. STILL, the cool guns are worth the watch!

[@thisguy41487]

I've shot a SCAR 17 several times in my life, and I had NO idea the mags were derived from FAL mags because I've never even touched an FAL. I've learned something new today!

[@MaddieLivingston42069]

I prefer a gun channel that doesn’t talk politics, well done sir…. 👏🏼

[@dxcreetegr7066]

That baby was my service rifle. 18”er No optic no pods. Love it

[@TeNBeeS7]

..got my fill of the SCAR F....AWESOME FAL even uk used it (omo)..and the israeli wood furniture is sexy too.

[@humanbass]

Check the Imperial Arms buffered bolt carrier for the Scar. It seems to be a quite good upgrade

[@terryboone3333]

The H&K 91 is somewhat like the Fal. It started out as the Cetme. They changed a few things in the lowers but the operating system is almost the same. Can use the mags from 91's in the cetme and could probably change the lower's but would have to change the butstock on the cetme. But it's still mostly the same gun.

[@jessicasimp4459]

Speaking of FN, I have requested the special history episode on the FN Minimi / M249 SAW because of the history behind the SAW actually being super interesting. Especially the US SAW tender trials of the 70s that involved the ultra obscure Rodman XM235, the Marine favored Colt XM106, the close second HK XM262, and also the proposed 6 mm SAW cartridge.

[@ETHRON1]

One take away from most of your videos my friend...i learn the take-down process for field stripping...of rifles/pistols ive nevet heard of or will probably never own...but knowledge is always a good thing.

[@marcofguzman3075]

😮Absolutely Fantastic thank you for your time and Assessment, You reinforced Mi preference for the FAL very much 😮

[@thePrussian]

We need heavy blasters and disrupter rifles.

[@benjaminhuberty5888]

In the 2000 watt range?

[@tedhodge4830]

No. We need the blessed boltgun.

[@ElTejon47901]

Gauss Guns soon

[@MrJoeKneale]

My LGS uses pictures of Boba Fett’s blaster (in place of all ar-15s) in their newspaper print ads.

[@ElTejon47901]

@@MrJoeKneale Why?

[@highdesertutah]

Is Fabrique pronounced fa-briek or fa-bra-jay? With modern furniture and a scope mount both available from DSA your FAL is as usable as any modern battle rifle, unless you need sub 2-3 MOA.

[@ntphong999]

" Fabr ee k " , just like fabric. The final " e " is silent

[@janmale7767]

Very good vid, the FAL (R-1 South African manufactured version) was my military issued weapon during nasional service for me 1980/81 that full power 308 round was spicey!! (For me then i was still a kid)

[@threesons270]

Who remembers Arnold in commando when he breaks into the gun shop and stocks up. My favorite part

[@__Dave__]

If we develop a new primary energy source your prediction holds, however if in 100 years we don’t have anything more energy dense than petroleum distillates then what you see now is roughly what you’ll get then

[@kmorris180]

If I'm not mistaken, the SCAR 1 has a bit of a problem with cracking plastic receivers. They're fine weapons. But I prefer the FAL.

[@MrBDUB450]

The biggest change in gun design has been the shift from when manual labor was cheap and machine time was expensive to now machine time is cheap and hand labor is expensive. Couple this with computer design and now you have a world where ergonomics is a thing. Why? Because now you have to design in the "feel" of the gun. Back when labor was cheap compared to machine time, a human hand was touching and fitting the part. He knew when it "felt" right. Don't need to engineer the right "feel." And while it seems like it must have been a long time ago, the shift to more machine-heavy products was around the 60's. Think pre-64 Winchesters, think the royal blue finish on Colt revolvers, etc. Doesn't seem that long ago, does it?

[@n8strength]

FN needs to get off their high horse and lower the SCAR prices a tad. No reason they should cost $3500+, and i want one so freakin bad

[@sandwichartist5053]

Just get an FAL. How could you watch this video and still think the scar has advantages that make it cost 3 times as much

[@JHypers]

Order a Robinson XCR-M instead. $1k+ cheaper, American made, more customizable, more robust. Only downside is the wait time.

[@n8strength]

Got a PSA Sabre. No regrets at all. And I just like SCAR’s too, but not the price.

[@murderlesson101]

Get a psa sabre in .308 when they come out, $probably $1-2k less eventually and im sure itll be fine

[@n8strength]

@@murderlesson101 You didn’t read the last post.

[@0fficer47]

I very much agree with the stance. Appreciate the video

[@ejmarkle60]

While I love gunpowder, lead and copper what I really want is a darn Lightsaber already. This is the way!

[@boneharvester_eth4021]

Awesome video. Thank you 🙏 🇺🇸

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Thank you!

[@Justice-ian]

The SCAR / AR barrel extension isn't really a subsequent change, because it copies the Johnson (which predated the FAL, along with the MG-42, MG-34, etc.), but it's a huge difference. Using a cartridge with a much higher pressure and bolt thrust would NOT be a minor / drop-in change for the FAL's fully stressed receiver.

[@876mpr]

I’ve always liked the FAL. So much better looking and better made than the SCAR.

[@hstwodrainage.1410]

I wish I still had my military issued F.N.-F.A.L. RA-4950 was the number, selective fire. Wonderful gun.

[@JohnTBlock]

According to Bloke on the Range, very few Brit troopies used the God-awlful optics the MOD provided, preferring the irons. You see this in photos from the Falklands, for example...

[@skepticalbadger]

The optic was good. The mount was trash. Same for the SUSAT.

[@markday4215]

I agree. We have hit a plateau with the technology and are fiddling with details. In a hundred years? Maybe Arnies line from Terminator will be real, maybe something more esoteric. But that line in the gunshop "a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" is still classic.

[@ripcurlreadiness8777]

I love my scar 17 but I also replaced the poly lower with a aftermarket aluminum lower that is stronger as well as it allows me to use 308 pmags wich are cheaper and more reliable and allows a 25 rd mag as well as a drum mag as well. I just wish my scar 17 had the non reciprocating charging handle. I know I can buy a kit but at 800+ dollars is a little offensive of FN to charge when I payed so much for a rifle that should have been that way from the start.

[@ms.annthrope415]

Had wanted a FAL for so long. Then it basically disappeared from California. Then it became like hen's teeth in other states. So i biught the SCAR 17. I love the SCAR 17. Great ergonomics, great design. Shoots soft and accurate. A true progeny of thr FAL.

[@joebocsy4240]

Second Legacy ROCKS!!!

[@trentmorrison6074]

Ill it to the scar, mono receiver, and great for getting new optics. But the abity to add a array of stuff can help or unhelp.

[@davidgolden1726]

That same 50:64 fn fal para is like $6500+ used now I gave $1600 used back in 94 It's just kz !!

[@MTMILITIAMAN7.62]

I think much of it boils down to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The hesitance of the military to make radical changes to proven technology means that improvements are made incrementally. We don't see big departures from what we know works because there is no incentive to take risks when failures ultimately cost you blood on the battlefield. It is interesting to me that one of the big stated benefits of polymer is the effect on cost due to ease of manufacturing, and yet the more modern polymer FN 17S is still at least $1000 more expensive than even premium modernized versions of the steel FN FAL from DS Arms.

[@45.Slanging]

Can we get a FNC vs SCAR 16 showdown? Also I think there are more than a few of us still waiting for the PWS 116 torture test update

[@HDBee]

Development of a workable caseless ammo should be the next development in ammo. Locking the bolt in a trunnion or barrel extension made it possible to use lighter materials in the receivers. Most pistols are either based on straight blowback, tilting barrel “Browning”, locking block “ P38”, or a rotating bolt or barrel. We’ve gone from chuckling rocks, pieces of metal and fire at each other by spears, arrows and catapult to moderate day firearms, artillery and rockets, still basically the same principle. Some type of energy weapons will be the next advancements, if we don’t nuke each other first.

[@bronxkal9275]

Finally.....the full video is released🙌

[@dn88s]

Only so much more we can do with metallic cartridges. But we can make something look cooler on social media than ever before

[@alexunderwood7899]

The double stack mag goes back to at least the savage 1907 in a pistol. The bolt system goes back to at least the johnson automatic rifle.

[@type_s_tyler7547]

Looking for a 1-8 or 1-10 for my SCAR 17, any suggestions Tim? I know Leupold tests their stuff for it, but I'm not crazy about their reticles. Thats the nice thing about the FAL, it wont eat optics haha!

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Yeah, for the SCAR if you plan to shoot it a lot I don't think you can do better than a Leupold. I wouldn't trust anything else with that recoil. We destroyed an Athlon scope on my SCAR some time ago.

[@A8vscRrabbit]

I put a primary arms griffin on my sig 55x for a while. It Survived the sharp recoil.. A buddy has a primary arms Athena bpr on his scar 20. I thinking the plx-c or griffin x would be a good option

[@Militaryarmschannel]

@@A8vscRrabbit I've not ran one on a SCAR to test. I may have to stick one on there.

[@JR15A2]

I've had a VCOG 1-6x24 (with segmented circle BDC reticle calibrated for 175 gr .308 in a Geissele mount) on my SCAR 17 since 2013. It has held up to ~ 8k rounds with no issues. I've also had a Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18x44 (with Tremor 3 illuminated reticle in a Geissele mount) on my SCAR 20 since 2018. It has held up to ~ 3k rounds with no issues. If you're looking at the more recently released Mark 5 HD 2-10, you'll see better reticle options and lower prices after they've been on the market longer. That's how Leupold rolls. Otherwise, look at the USMC SCO version of the Trijicon VCOG 1-8x28 that comes with the Larue mount. I have one of those on a 16" Super Duty 5.56 (which is easy street, I know), and I have zero doubt it would also hold up to thousands of rounds on the SCAR 17 with no issues.

[@A8vscRrabbit]

​@@JR15A2we had a trijicon 3x9 on my setme/ptr/g3 clone. It survived years on that thing.

[@JohnTBlock]

Bottom line is, it's been a long time since the infantry rifle has been the arm of decision on a battlefield. That role now is taken by armor, and artillery in it's different tube and rocket variations... cannons have an advantage in smaller/easier to transport ammo, rockets tend to better range. Accuracy is a variable, and rocket-assisted arty is gaining range, at a little cost in precision, but nowhere near the 200K+ reach of some missiles. But back to rifles - both are .308 battle rifles, that few armies field for basic infantry. The 5.56 is the king there, even the 5.45 in Kalasnikov using armies. Cost of the weapon matters more as long as it WORKS WELL, ( unless you're British and were forced to deal with that miserable bullpup...) but ease of manufacture is not a wartime concern, cuz when war breaks out you're not building guns against attrition in use, you're going to use what you've stockpiled, or allies can supply (ARs & AK-74s in Ukraine, for example, with the odd 47 thrown in as the exception to prove the rule.) But yeah, AI and drones will be more important than rifles, outside of infantry occupying ground taken, to control it. Nothing will change til infantry energy weapons become a thing... "where's my phaser rifle?"

[@Gasman1788]

I just wish I could find a metric mag for the one I have. Right now it’s a single shot. And at $400.00 a mag it’s gonna stay that way

[@PBoretsky]

I for one am glad that you don't talk about politics on this channel anymore, honestly I prefer this channel just to be for firearms content.

[@asaoverby3288]

I agree with you, just for the algorithms.

[@bensears7499]

About iron sights. I like them, but with my eyesight I am better at point shooting. That is why I use an LPVO on my rifle. When I first shot a 375 H & H rifle, I was point shooting fine. Using sights I tended to sway off target. Anyone else have this problem?

[@paulkube3901]

Not to seem too pedantic; but.... Some 20 yr ago, I spent quite a bit of time researching the distribution of all varieties of FAL for our FAL collector's group. I actually only found seventy-some, with quite a few being non-national; ie: police departments, militias and NGOs. Granted, this is all by fading recollection thru the murkiness of time and no hard copies still exist. As much as I'd like to believe in the "90 countries" mythos, that I came up 20 short, I'm reluctantly doubtful. It could be asserted that the venerable FAL was used IN ninety countries, some that don't even exist anymore, during a variety of conflicts; but AFA the 90 "countries" actual contracts....count me skeptical. Respectfully, thanks

[@tropocal2343]

*I feel that with almost everything; they made it better in the "Old Days".* *I would rather have a FAL, than a SCAR.*

[@BrianH-b2u]

110% agree with you. I feel the build quality, functionality and ergos of the FAL is superior to the SCAR. Having a few DSA's that are modernized with Mlocks and picatinny rails, why pay almost twice as much for a SCAR when you can almost get 2 FAL's for the price.

[@taylormartin4346]

The fact that bolt-action rifles, which are what, 170 years old at this point, are still on the modern battlefield is amazing to me.

[@xcoldone1768]

@MilitaryArmsChannel. Hey Tim, what do you think about the LWRC REPR MKII? Is it still relevant?

[@desertdweller4413]

Good morning MAC why don’t you review the Mototech Engineering SCAR adjustable gas regulator??? I am not affiliated I own but would like your perspective

[@Riley_Williamson]

Mac, that is not true about having to lock the non-reciprocating charging handle in the forward position in order to get the bolt carrier out. Both can be removed at the same time.

[@ricks.1092]

The SCAR "reciprocating charging handle," was NOT FN's idea. A military officer with pull and say so. Insisted that a reciprocating charging handle was "More Reliable." The army office didn't present any evidence, studies, analysis to prove his claim. Nevertheless, FN created a reciprocating charging handle.

[@tedhodge4830]

Well, it gives you direct control over the movement of the bolt in the receiver. I don't know if you've ever had a stuck case in an AR-15 in the middle of an indoor range, but jesus christ.

[@warrenkirkman7726]

Love your videos Seams like every thing is just a rehash repackaging

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Yup, agreed. Thank you for watching.

[@jvan253]

I bought a SCAR 16 for fun, but when asked why I didn't get a 17 for 7.62, my response was and is "that's why I have my FAL and HK91". With the available optic mounts and rail or MLOK handguards there is very little reason to "upgrade" to a SCAR 17.

[@xxdarkxxgamer6250]

What is that optic on the FAL and the mount i need to get one for myself

[@XaXa_AR223]

Great video

[@charleslowrey9309]

Only thing that I don't like about my 17s is the extractor pin retainer clip. Hate that design. Had an ACR stock on it, and hatted it. The ugg boot is comfy. Opted for the BREN 805 s1 over the 16s a while back, Then had to have the BREN2 when it came out. The SCAR and BREN's BCG and gas systems seem more like evolutions of the HK G36 IMO.

[@BarrelTitor91]

I wonder if armies will do the move and move to repulsion and particle weapons (100 years old technologies) and somehow manage to shield them from EMPs. Or move to gasoline weapons. (far, far more pressure and fps than gunpowder)

[@wittsullivan8130]

For s's and giggles, do the slots on the FAL's forearm work with MagPul MLOK or MOE stuff? :)

[@juggernautdriveSS]

You should do a video on a fal with modern optics and modern force multipliers. Everything a scar can do, a fal can do.

[@BarrelTitor91]

Can you use SCAR mags in FAL?

[@grandtheftavocado]

Wasn't the FN-49 the precursor to the FAL?

[@chrisrowland1514]

It would be interesting in someone made a FAL with more materials but zero change in design. Would it still stand up or would it be better than what we have

[@skepticalbadger]

Of course it wouldn't be better. Tilting bolt is inherently inferior, that's why noone uses it any more. Less accurate and heavier.

[@redhead5222]

They lowered the cost and upped the MSRP, $4.2k for a FN SCAR 17.

[@MrTheronballard]

G-11 was a revolutionary gun but never got fielded. Nothing like it existed in WWII

[@wolverminion770]

I believe advances in caseless ammunition (improving on the caseless used in the G11) will be next in the evolution of firearms, though the designs of arms to fire the caseless ammo will not necessarily change much due to still needing to feed the caseless and extract any faulty misfires.

[@TMFShooting]

Another Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@AusJackal]

Even though the SCAR is a "modern" rifle, I think the FAL is a better rifle if only because the FAL side cocker is better especially when the original SCARs reciprocated.. also if want a good "FAL".. get an L1A1 especially an Aussie model as they are far better made.. also the charging handle on the L1A1 is nuch more functional than the FAL model..

[@victormaxwell5947]

That's very interesting ,, Thanks 👍🇺🇸

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Thank you for watching.

[@sandymitchell8182]

Your the best 👌

[@skepticalbadger]

The 50s FAL did not have polymer furniture. Most didn't have it until the 70s.

[@rolandxor179]

The US military would adopt the FN FAL if it was called the Browning Freedom Fist made in South Carolina. Freedom Fist in 6.8x51mm 😊fury.

[@marzcapone9939]

We humans like incremental changes, something like the AR-10 was ahead of it's time. The materials, and technology to manufacture those new materials, allowed for a new design. But, how light can we go? What new materials exist that are also affordable to produce and manufacture? Can we make a stronger, lighter, and more reliable firearm? How much more ammo can a soldier carry, if the rifle only weighed 2 lbs? Is that even possible with gun powder? IDK

[@OlliveDrab]

Hey Tim :) I am not saying I agree neither disagree with the comment about the AR style bolt face being superior as I am too unknowledgeable on the subject matter... but I am wandering what supports this claim ? Indeed, I always thought the opposite to be true as I never heard of AKM locking lugs shear off. This is also not the case for SIG SG55x series of rifles or HK G3 or the featured FN FAL. So what makes the AR bolt face superior ? As the above mentioned examples would support the opposite and this is why I always believed (maybe wrongly ?) this bolt face to be in fact an inferior design.

[@DinoNucci]

I don't trust people who wear their watch backwards

[@thetraveler5798]

Prefer the Original Fal ! Loneger lasting in extreme conditions such as heat and battle proven, in my personal opinion for personal use. + it has style and something that catches your attention, first saw them as a little kid and that rumble sound it's deep, don't know but along my personal choice of craftsmanship the M1 Garant & M 14 are Classic of Classic! But for over all fight, in a standard gun fights of a rifle design that would be FN-FAL. Bit long and Heavy but it packs a Punch ❗ 💪- Right Arm of a Free World 😉, Fall all the way❗

[@alexandermaclachlan7404]

If they've reduced the cost and time of construction, then how come the FN-SCAR is so expensive??? Very interesting video. FYI - I love .308 and the FAL is a nice looking rifle.

[@justinwilliams7148]

because FN sells each one that goes out the door. They've never lowered the prices and it just keeps going up. If they got it down to $1500 or less they could at least compete with their newer competition.

[@usmcvet0313]

You are paying the FN tax. It's like Colt AR's before they went bankrupt, paying extra for the name on the side.

[@alexandermaclachlan7404]

Actually I was referring to the cost of the SCAR. Those things are pricey as Hell!

[@usmcvet0313]

@@alexandermaclachlan7404 Right, FN makes the SCAR. Thus you are paying extra for that FN name on the side.

[@alexandermaclachlan7404]

LOL!

[@dude126]

Can't imagine there is a reduced cost in real terms of a SCAR vs a FAL.

[@desperado8605]

16 inch fal was my 2nd cenerfire rifle I made the mistake of taking the stock off without the proper tool yeah don't recommend lmao. I miss that rifle really want to get another answer I want a scar

[@John-zs2eo]

I'm an FN fanboy. The one thing that hasn't changed is cost: a real FAL that isn't beat to death costs 7k give or take some dollars. A new SCAR 17 or 20 is 3.8 and 4.8 respectively. Now, FN took the stock from the 20in and put it on the 17, and calls it a DMR, and its 5k something. I already had that setup by accident. The stock on my 16 was not really working right, so I sent it to FN. They sent it back, but the tech called me to tell me that someone had drilled the stock and that's why it is sticking. He is right. That 16 was a Cali compliant and the store I bought it at, returned it to normal configuration. Since it was altered, they wouldn't mess with it. As luck would have it, I had just bought the stock from the 20in on sale for 499$, and FN sells that puppy for 900$. I took the stock off my 17 and put it on the 16, and put the new one on the 17 and it rocks. It add a bit of weight, but I already SBR'd that weapon, and some of that weight was gone. Waiting on my can now. Good show Tim!

[@milesmanges]

And I'm still broke 😂 nothings changed

[@oathtaker2768]

I agree

[@Wolfwolveswolf]

~ FN FAL ~ ~ SCAR 17 ~ ~ Long Live The Great Battle Rifles ~

[@brucewailes7744]

I appreciate you keeping your political statements separate from your gun content. There are people from both sides of any argument who like a good gun.

[@blazerbarrel2]

Either works !

[@wolverminion770]

Truly effective, durable, and reliable caseless ammunition will be the next stage in the evolution of small arms - until battery/energy sources become powerful and portable enough for infantry small arms.

[@olmangarcia943]

The candidate that can guarantee us 500usd Para FALs and get Scars stateside for under 2k USD has my vote

[@magoid]

9:56 Well, rotating bolts locking on barrel extensions became popular in the Mauser rifles in the 1870s. The multiple lug one appeared on the Mexican Mondragon rifles in the turn of the 20th century, including a semiauto one. The first American rifle with a bolt with multiple lugs was the M1941 Johnson rifle. Probably the only thing Stoner invented was the internal piston on the bolt carrier.

[@evilcat7698]

Mauser rifles don't have barrel extensions for the bolt to lock up in. The locking surfaces are in the receiver. Also the Springfield 1903 has twin locking lugs on the bolt. Just sayin . . .

[@ericbergfield6451]

The SCAR is great in video games, but is heavy to carry IRL. I've never seen a FAL, but I'd probably prefer the FAL for aesthetic reasons.

[@daniel-eo3rz]

Is the Tavor 7 still the battle rifle you would pick for a civilian?

[@Militaryarmschannel]

I would be 100% comfortable with the T7. It was my favorite until the Sig SPEAR in .308 came along. So either of them would be my top choice for a .30 cal fighting rifle. Thanks for watching.

[@daniel-eo3rz]

@@Militaryarmschannel I'll keep that in mind for my purchase. Thank you so much for replying!

[@alexgaspari6685]

True

[@billalumni7760]

Amazing they are that similar. If it works ...

[@JamesThomas-gg6il]

Do you honestly believe that the SCAR or any other of that type , will even be around in a hundred years? Meaning these aren't heirloom type weapons. Maybe a few that have been in storage, but who knows.