7680Hz! What?! Yes, we need 7680fps! Here's why

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'm taking what they advertised at face value. They're advertising 7680Hz flicker free. Even on their website, they have another LED model that claims 7680Hz refresh rate www.hisense-b2b.com/en/136-led-all-in-one-display-haio136de If that's not actually 7680Hz sample and hold, and it is just something like 120Hz with PWM 7680Hz that does absolutely nothing to improve motion, it would be like advertising one of the many 120Hz TVs with 960Hz PWM behavior as being a 960Hz display. Grossly misleading and probably just targeting the movie industry, who would point a camera to these huge displays and doesn't want flickering to be visible on camera. What a shame, if that's the case, but the purpose of this video was to explain why we need 7680fps/Hz and that doesn't change.

[@spyplane3979]

Imagine you will need server rack or something that has multiple gpus to run that program to get 8khz video signal . You need a decent stack .

[@spyplane3979]

can you think on the power to supply a 100 gpu 4090's in a series.

[@spyplane3979]

acturally NVIDIA A100 something more like these gpus Think of 100k or better to acquire this technology

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

​@@spyplane3979no problem, "The more GPUs you buy, the more money you save"

[@hugevibez]

No it is what we consider refresh rate, or rather PWM and refresh rate on self emissive displays are one and the same. A refresh cycle, is essentially a pulse, changing the length of the pulse width (=the frequency) is what PWM describes. High refresh LED video walls have existed for as long as we've been using virtual production environments. The high refresh in this case isn't required for perfect motion clarity, but rather for synchronizing the shutter speed and the refresh rate for the camera like you said. However it is not just PWM-frequency we are talking about, but again they are one and the same. Changing the refresh rate of these displays often does change the brightness and color output of the display*, but individual frames can be used to show different things. So it is refresh rate in a classical sense. But it is not refresh rate in the sense we can drive these panels ourselves at these rates. Obviously there are bandwidth constraints getting signal to the processor. To drive a 4k display at these speeds, we would need 2Tbit of bandwidth and that is with reduced blanking timings. Less so, getting the content to the panels since a video wall uses multiple smaller modules, so you have a lot of cables anyway. But the limit here, and in our reality as well, is processing. Currently video wall processors top out at 250fps as far as I know (I'm sure faster is possible), but studios are trying to push the boundaries on this too because persistence blur is definitely visible in captured video. Often there is SDI/HDMI inputs, but more commonly video is send to the processor over the network. Yes, the input video is of a lower refresh, but the individual pixels can refresh and show content at these speeds. For example you can have a multiple camera environment, where you have the frames needed for one camera and the frames for the other in a stepped sequence. Similarly to how active shutter 3D works, or rather the multiplayer functionality you had on PS3 where you only saw your own screen using active shutters. Other times they insert a blue or green frame for chroma keying purposes or just a black frame for actually reducing motion blur on the video wall. *This is also why "VRR-flicker" is so prominently visible on self-emissive displays.

[@N0N0111]

It's so incredible RARE in this day and age, that people with a tech channel on KZbin just do an on the fly video on a topic. NO movie magic with jump cuts †, NO script reading and talking with near ZERO emotions †. This person is a gem making gem content. SUBSCRIBE and UPVOTE please.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I really appreciate your compliment. When I have to play the guitar live, there's only one take. So, that's the feeling I go for when I make these videos.

[@alger-y3q]

imagine 7680Hz with locked 60fps

[@astreakaito5625]

that's easy to imagine..

[@randomgamingin144p]

with black frame insertion..

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Sample and hold 60fps looks the same at 60fps than 7680Hz

[@Deathscythe91]

@@elfferich1212 you do know what locked fps means?

[@powerdude_dk]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 I think OP is referring to some AAA games still being locked at 60 fps. It's absolutely hilarious when high refresh rate monitors have been common for years now

[@Johnnyrebox]

You have improved a lot in simplifying your explanations! I actually grasped everything you stated about how it works and why. Great to see.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'm glad to hear that!

[@PCPAyLOAD]

The heat generation from a PC producing a raw fps of 7000+ would not only consume an absurd amount of electricity, it would create so much damn heat you'd burn your house down.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

We can just put it under water

[@rodrigobasoaltoc.1743]

​@@plasmatvforgaming9648Like the DIY video!

[@joker-bc4cv]

​@@plasmatvforgaming9648custom liquid cooling loop?

[@sbacon92]

remote GPU farm at nVidia. You will need to buy a year sub to play.

[@hanes2]

The 7680Hz been in MicroLED for years. But it's mostly been at the high-end rental and studios. Image processing companies like MegapixelVR uses this to project multiple images at once called "GhostFrame". where one camera shows one thing, another camera shows another thing and human eye can see something completely different. TV studios like FOX uses this. this way they can record their studio where they get one camera capturing a green-screen, cameras capturing the final image and human IRL can see a third image that's the final image but with markers that's not picked up by the cameras that record the final graphics. The image processing in MicroLED at the moment max out at ~480fps. The main issue is that the LED chips driving the diods gets hotter and shorten the lifespan to much that u need to replace them starting after 6 months. So in practice, most doesn't use microLED beyond 240fps ever.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Interesting, thanks for sharing 👍

[@josipreponj1928]

I think this might be the PWM frequency. It even says "Free of Flicker" bellow. Because they consider that frequency flicker-less. But can't know for sure. Did anyone confirm this is a real thing? Blur Busters Law is mainly focusing on EYE-TRACKING motion blur. In real world we are experiencing all kinds of eye-movements-&-content-movements combinations. Eye-tracking is just 1 out of 3 main motion cases. There can be: 1. Stationary eyes on: A) stationary images, B) moving images 2. Moving eyes on: A) stationary images, B) moving images (eye-tracking is 2B) To achieve life-like motion we need to take all cases into consideration, not just 1. When doing 2B in real life, we see perfect motion clarity (2B=1A). But also when doing 1B and 2A we see perfect motion blurrity (2A=1B) - for this we need ultra high sample rate... and for some other important reasons as well. Did you know that BFI only helps 2B, doesn't help 1B, and negatively affects 2A. Brute sample-&-hold sample rate on the other hand helps all cases, not just 1, and with no negative impacts (assuming GtG=0). Now, how much we eye-track varies from person-to-person and from content-to-content, but I'd dare to say eye-tracking takes the smallest portion of our daily screen usage. That's something to think about.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

What a great comment. Thanks for sharing! This seems to be just misleading marketing from Hisense. Apparently, in that world they live, refresh rate is PWM and flickerless means on camera. Imagine the rage of people if they started to advertise 120Hz TVs like 960Hz just because they have PWM behavior that does nothing to improve motion. It looks like the purpose of these huge TVs is to be recorded by cameras, and the brighter it gets, the shutter speed would show flickering on camera that they want to avoid

[@SuperemeRed]

This is the only thing that makes sense. Good to see a comment that picked up on "PWM" being vaguely marketed as refresh rate. But it's still a very good thing. As looking at thin white lines an sweeping you eyes over the screen on an LCD with PWM, even at 720hz on my Sony will produce multiple stepped lines. While on an OLED it would just be a smooth smear. With this ridiculous high PWM the line stepping should be reduced by a factor of 10x. It will likely also produce calmer vertical edges of high contrast in panning scenes even at lower true but 24/30 refresh rates.

[@josipreponj1928]

Oh, didn't see the pinned comment. I'm not sure why does microLED even need PWM for brightness control. OLED surely doesn't. I hope this doesn't translate to other models. 7kHz flicker is up there, but still not ideal for very sensitive individuals. If they really want to make it eye-friendly why not just do the classic DC dimming? When close to screen, at very high panning speeds/eye-turns you could probably still notice 7kHz PWM affecting the motion, but I guess that feels unnatural to do.

[@kaylee42900]

This is the true end game for framegen

[@geminijinxies7258]

7680hz is a good starting point. Now they only need to find a way to improve it much much more!!

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😂

[@tvndno6023]

We need more

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Money

[@tvndno6023]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 😭

[@cleptomanixD]

Amazing video and explanation!

[@Twin_Pixel]

Awesome, pixel perfect filmgrain, can't wait! They need to fix the games, first: they can't get Metaphor Re:Fantazio looking right at 60 FPS, can you image the mess they make at 8000 Hz? We are a looong we to go. A good, clear 120 fps, no stuttering, no ghosting, no aliasing, it's enough for me.

[@PahEz]

120 fps won't do that on a sample and hold display. You need at least 480hz for the image to look " crystal clear " for the most part, and for perfect motion clarity 1000hz 0.1ms response times. So an OLED would be able to get you extremely close to the " perfect " motion clarity at 1000hz 1000fps. On a CRT for example, it is completely different obviously.

[@powerdude_dk]

@@Twin_Pixel yeah 120 is nice. My current 180Hz monitor has much less inverse ghosting at 120 Hz. It's kinda a mess at 180 Hz (OC'ed from 165 Hz).

[@powerdude_dk]

@@PahEz I'd really like to test out an OLED for the games I play. I've got a decent monitor. But I'm starting to notice the inverse ghosting on it, when it runs max Hz.

[@jamescampbell8482]

One very easy way to think about why you would want 7680 HZ is the question how much resolution do you actually want to see out of your monitor when the picture is moving? If you have a refresh rate of 7680 HZ that means you can see one 8K frame worth of resolution in motion. When the panning speed is 7680 on the UFO test the UFO will look crystal clear. So for example I have a 1080 P BenQ xl 2720 120 HZ monitor that I have overclocked to 180 HZ. Each frame is visible sample and hold for 5.5 milliseconds at 180 hz. This translates for me on my monitor to about 1200 pixels per second in motion that I can eye track. So though I have a 1920 by 1080 monitor, the motion resolution of it looks and feels more like a 720p monitor while it is running at a locked 180 HZ. I use the program lossless scaling to make sure that refresh rate and Hz are always locked at 180, so that I can benefit from that increased motion resolution.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

The chief doesn't like the term motion resolution, he explains it based on motion clarity because the Blur Busters Law is resolution agnostic. In this video I focus in 4k to have at least something that doesn't change, otherwise it could be more confusing.

[@Serial_Thriller]

What you've said makes a lot of sense. I've thought about this before and at first i thought that around 3000Hz would be enough for perfect motion, or very close to it. But for truly perfect per-pixel motion with fast moving objects it still wouldn't be enough. Now i don't even think 7 - 8000Hz would be quite enough for the limit of human eye tracking. We'd probably need around 12 - 16KHz. Btw i'd bet that this displays 7680Hz is a marketing lie.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It's probably marketing lie. The advertisement of flicker free is referring to flicker free on camera and not human eye. It's like they were selling this just for the purpose of being recorded with a camera

[@sirius-man]

I will be content with a 1000hz monitor with 1000fps in game

[@cemsengul16]

Imagine the flicker though.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

The higher the PWM the least amount of flickering visible, that's probably why they're advertising flickerless even when it's flickering at 7680Hz rather than refreshing new frames than many times per second

[@cemsengul16]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Interesting. I recently got a FO32U2P and I am shocked by the vrr flicker. On my LG G3 with PS5 I never noticed the flicker. Maybe consoles have more consistent frame times?

[@giuseppe.marino]

Could you make a video where you summarize all the main changes in TV settings (secret menu etc.) and Windows 11 settings (icc profiles, cru etc.), based on the uses you make of them (SDR content like browsing or working and HDR gaming)?

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I can try

[@Flank.Sinatra.]

Very good video! Side note: I noticed that I only experience PWM brightness flicker with my 60 Hz IPS laptop display when the image is non-black and the laptop is in my peripheal vision. Looking directly at the screen is fine. I've never ever experienced PWM flicker before. Interesting. I'd like to understand why.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Flickering perception varies from person to person. The Blur Busters chief told me that

[@freefallp885]

Half life 1 owners will love this

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Engines have a max FPS too, I think Doom is 2000fps

[@PahEz]

​@@plasmatvforgaming9648And cod is at 1000 fps, at least on older titles ( cod4-waw-mw2-mw3 etc ) and most likely the same on newer cods. The only issues is that 1k fps ruins the game in older cods with the same " modified " engine. Newer cods don't have that issue at high fps.

[@fcfdroid]

I was expecting click bait because I remember when plasmas claimed 600Hz refresh rate but you covered it so over all well put video😎

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Actually, it seems like they're misleading with the advertisement. They're actually meaning flickerless on camera. It's like if they were selling these with the only purpose of being recorded on camera for Studios. On their universe, refresh rate isn't refresh rate, and flickerless doesn't mean sample and hold, plus they're selling these to cameras and not people

[@GFClocked]

People in 2024 watching this: why would you ever need more than 60fps? People in 2044: how could people have played below 2000hz? Must be some Neanderthals

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😂

[@holgerbahr8961]

DLLS 6.66 will upscale 32*18 pixels to 1440p for playing Counterstrike with 7680 FPS

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

The 5000 series is most likely going to FG 4x and probably announce Asynchronous reprojection

[@chrissoucy1997]

So basically, CRT's are still going to be the motion clarity king for a while for most people until the hardware and technologies get there and those displays become affordable for most people.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

We have better motion than CRTs already. ULMB 2.0 displays and Nvidia Pulsar achieve better motion than CRTs

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

CRTs can have 1ms of persistence or even sub 1ms

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

1ms of persistence is equal to 1 pixel of motion blur when moving at 1000 pixels per second

[@chrissoucy1997]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Yes, but at the cost of much higher resfesh rates and hardware required. With a CRT, I can pick a used 1600X1200 monitor for 50$ which is what I did and I can easily achieve perfect flicker free motion at 75-85 HZ on GPU's from 6-7 years ago in modern games. Gsync Pulsar is a definite step in the right direction though because it allows the refresh rate to be variable and maintain strobing so not necessary to maintain a locked 120 anymore like on the LG C1 with OLED Motion Pro. However, because Gsync Pulsar is at the moment going to be tied to only a 1440p 360 HZ monitor, its more than likely going to cost at leat 800 to 1000 USD.

[@chrissoucy1997]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 I tried my CRT at 744X558@160 HZ and I when I move the mouse very fast in Half Life 2 with motion blur disabled, I can't see any blur no matter how hard I try, it's insane. Will it get better than this with Gsync Pulsar and those 7680 HZ displays? Absolutely, I don't doubt it for a second, but the amount of motion clarity that you can get on those cheap 50$ 4:3 CRT's is crazy and it doesn't require the lasest GPU's which is what makes it great and accessible for everyone that can find them at a great price like me while they are still around and functional.

[@jamescampbell8482]

Even though these pixels are capable of a sample and hold 7680 hz a subfield Drive method Whidbey far more practical so you could feed it 60 or 120 frames per second scanned out at that speed. CRT beam simulation is also something that could be done in emulators, I know the chief has talked about that

[@RasoGOVI]

I am good with 120hz & 240hz. More than that is pointless. I am a casual gamer. That's enough for me.

[@W1DST3R]

The framegen and upscaling needs to happen on the tv/monitor cause no cable can transfer those speeds

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

For this one, they either have a new thing with enough bandwidth, or a monstrous processing. It seems to just be misleading advertising, it's probably just 120Hz with 7680Hz PWM which does nothing to improve motion

[@armandoaranda7989]

I'm just hoping they have a mode that does strobing or black frame insertion and uses the superior brightness of the microled panels to mitigate any issues with dimming or washed out colors. Thousands of fps just seems impractical even if I'm looking a few years into the future. I just don't see any consumer level consoles doing that even in the next decade. Algorithms/AI produce flawed images, add latency and require more processing power which will add cost.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Me too

[@mattrc77]

Hey man kind of an out there question but I had to recently return my Bravia 7 mini LED TV due to really bad eye strain and migraines I'm looking into delving back into OLEDs and wondering if I should get an LG or Samsung, do you know which ones would probably be best for eye sensitivity from your experience?

[@ehenningsen]

Gonna need some supercomputers

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Jensen's PC

[@DwAboutItManFr]

Is it really proper fill 7680Hz fps? I've seen refresh rates rated as super higher but sometimes this was like, how much times the brightness refreshes and not the image and etc

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

This is most likely marking from Hisense, in their world refresh rate isn't refresh rate, it's PWM behavior, and flickerless means it doesn't fliquer on camera, not that it's sample and hold

[@DwAboutItManFr]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 As i expected.

[@DwAboutItManFr]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Also endgame is probably 20Khz, or maybe astronomically large if you consider that objects could always cross a screen in a time faster it takes to display a frame of it unless it so fast it will display stuff even at light speed.... just talking about, perfection literally.

[@EverythingPS5Pro]

Holy shit 😂 absolutely insane stuff, this must mean gaming is about to get insane with AI.

[@sorunaz]

is this the same thing as the Samsung Wall all in one that was rated as a 3840 hz ? i dont think its 7680hz on displaying frames

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It seems like they call flickerless 7680Hz refresh rate to just 120Hz with 7680Hz PWM. Very misleading

[@EverythingPS5Pro]

Hey Ariel do you have Screen Move enabled or do you have all OLED CARE protections off? ❤️😁

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Everything off

[@EverythingPS5Pro]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 have you noticed any temporary image retention, the type that disappears after 2-3 seconds? I get that sometimes with my C4 even with protection on. Also if you ever wanna do a stream on your channel and us two talking motion clarity it would be very cool 😎❤️

[@zukilegabuza4297]

​@@plasmatvforgaming9648 why off ? I thought those features prolongs the lifespan of your panel when switched on

[@powerdude_dk]

Just like with atheltics, everyone doesn't have the same capability, to percieve high refresh rates. Some can't even see above 60 fps. They'll claim it's fluent. That's why people can't agree on if high refresh monitors are worth the buy, or if it's even working. Personally I'd say that 144 Hz and 240 Hz is night and day. And I believe I'll be able to notice a difference between 240 Hz and 480 Hz. But I'm yet to experience 480 Hz.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It is true that there are some people who are motion blind.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

If you can tell the difference you're not motion blind

[@powerdude_dk]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Although I can tell the difference, I get motion sickness, in some games, usually above 120Hz 😅 In Minecraft, I even get motion sick above 100Hz. But i play Killing Floor 2 and Quake Champions at 180 Hz, but sadly Killing Floor 2 caps out at 150 fps when playing online, due to the game being synced to the server tick rate. You can play higher fps in singleplayer though, and it looks glorious. I'd like to buy an OLED display to get the godlike pixel response time though.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Get one, it's totally worth it

[@AlexGeo-e1i]

Hi wat monitor will you recomand for gaming with hdr ? I was thinking to get the rog pc32ucdm

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I would recommend an OLED TV rather than a Monitor. An LG TV C or G series, an Samsung QDOLED TV (any of them except S95D)

[@AlexGeo-e1i]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 well I can t really fit a tv in my desk

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Maybe a 42'

[@AlexGeo-e1i]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 a tv is too big and I really like a monitor can you recomand one ? I have seen good stuff about asus in that department

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'd get a glossy WRGB OLED with MLA

[@DavidSM4K]

One thing, if in a game like Silent Hill 2 R, which has drops below 60fps, would it be better to block 60fps and remove VRR so that my OLED always goes to 120Hz Vsync? I would say that gives me a better feeling of fluidity and the drops are less noticeable when playing than VRR constantly dancing frames between 45-90fps.And the drops are less noticeable thanks guys

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'd lock the FPS for sure maybe 120Hz 60fps locked with Half Vsync would work better than VRR 60 locked just because of those massive drops

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Asynchronous reprojection would completely hide those massive drops to a point where I'm afraid developers are going to neglet optimization

[@MuzdokOfficial]

🤯

[@augustoaguilera4205]

Awesome video,, brother. By any chance, have you ever seen the ASUS pg32ucdm BFI in action. Or are ever going to make a video about the monitor? Would be amazing,

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It's supposed to be very good. I've never seen it. I'll try to start reaching out to these companies to see if I can get review samples

[@augustoaguilera4205]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 I really hope you do. I'm thinking about getting it but no one is going in depth on the BFI subject. You would be the perfect person to review it.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Thanks, I'd tell you exactly how good it is

[@Bugatti12563]

just let it do BFI

[@SammySam7x]

I dont even think a 2d sidescrolling indie game can get the fps that high with the most powerful gpu 😅

[@Stoddardian]

Yes, but with an emulator that replicates subfields you don't need 240fps for great motion clarity.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

We definitely need solutions for 60fps content clarity

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

The Sony Kdl-47w802a I showed was CRT like at 60fps

[@ProtoType4588]

cant wait to walk past houses and hear graphic cards scream constantly

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😂

[@MenderSlen579]

how would that compare to a high refresh rate crt?in terms of tracking the ufo at high speeds?

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Some CRTs are like a 960Hz sample and hold display so this would be like 8 times better

[@MenderSlen579]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 damn.

[@bardhi09]

Sorry to disappoint you bro but that is most likely the internal PWM rate and not the actual refresh rate The reason they advertise the PWM rate for these kind of huge displays is because these giant displays are usually filmed so customers don't want visible flicker to be captured on camera To do 7680hz refresh rate you need some really powerful electronics under the hood

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'm taking what they advertised at face value, they say flicker free and that means sample and hold without PWM. If that's not the case they're falsely advertising these. I wouldn't be surprised

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I've never seen an LCD TV with 960Hz PWM being advertised as a 960Hz display. People would call that false advertisement

[@bardhi09]

I see you don't have much experience with looking up spec sheets for Signage Displays. In the Signage world: Refresh rate = PWM rate Frame rate = Refresh rate 3840hz and 7680hz are common PWM rates for LED signage screens So it's really a difference in terminology The screens have no perceptoble flicker since they are 7680hz PWM which means very very few people can notice it. Cameras won't be able to capture it. PWM also relates to color reproduction and stuff due to how PWM displays work. DC dimming is generally better than PWM but that doesn't always work and can be more costly.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

​@bardhi09 So there's a different world we're refresh rate doesn't mean refresh rate. What a mess. Can you post a comment explaining what you know about this replying to my pinned comment. Thanks

[@jiggerypokery2962]

I can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 most of the time. Seeing a clearer alien picture doesn't justify spending so much not seeing a difference in a real picutre.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It will be visible in real content too

[@rafograph854]

What's real life refresh rate?

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

IMO display technology is far ahead of the actual content.. Even value TVs are 4k 120hz, Monitors are 240 hz? True 4k is extremely challenging to push for PC or gaming consoles. Just wait. GTA6 will be running at 30fps on PS5 pro.. Even with current consoles 1080p 60fps is not the norm. So even an old Plasma TV is not maxed out..

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

That's developers fault, imo they should 100% target 4k 120fps on Consoles because that's going to look better than 30 or 60 blurry

[@322-Dota2]

you will never be able to get bandwidth enough for 8k hz. Maximum at 4k is 500 hz with DSC. 20x will takes ages to process and deliver. You need some new standard

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Maybe this display can't actually refresh 7680Hz and it's just PWM behavior (terrible advertisement if that'sthe case) We'll get there, we need a lot more bandwidth for sure.

[@Hentirion]

So for 1080p i just need 3160hz ?!?

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

A 1080p display has 1920 pixels horizontally, so to get 1 pixel of motion blur, when the object takes 0.5 seconds to cover screen width, we'd need 1920x2=3840Hz

[@yazi2879]

crazy

[@Odank]

Sure, but I think gaming peeps can be fine with the persistence of 120-165hz just fine.

[@PahEz]

I disagree. My 27 inch 1440p 144hz ( 165hz oc ) LCD monitor is actually so bad that it is often near unplayable even at 300+ fps where the input delay is good. It is just so blurry that it is not even fun to play. A 480hz 1440p oled is something that I would consider close to perfect. It will be enough to have an amazing experience in comp titles, unlike a 144hz lcd which is a mess. Especially mine since the total response time is 9ms.

[@Odank]

@@PahEz Most folks are not in competitive gaming. Also that monitor tech is outdated. If you are the top 5% of “ I see blur everywhere” gamer then I’m sorry, but your brain has been spoiled ;)

[@PahEz]

@@Odank It has nothing to do with that, when you talk about " gaming " the monitor has to be fast for the experience to be something " games " are meant to produce. You do realize that 30 fps 30hz is more than enough, so why did you even buy a 165hz monitor then? It isn't about what's enough, it is what makes the overall experience good. If we are talking about watching youtube videos, movies, or work on pc you do not " need " a 144hz monitor, you do not " need " a 144hz monitor for gaming either, but it sure makes the experience so much better, and games are meant to be fun. Something you enjoy doing. Whether it is because the game is just fun and interesting to play, or maybe you are just so good at some games that it is the reason you like to play video games. Either way, the better the monitor, the better the overall experience is going to be ( excluding ingame fps now which are required on a specific sample and hold display to get the most out of the monitor ) so what I'm saying is that 2ms of monitor persistence, with OLED response times will make the overall gaming experience so good that it will feel extremely enjoyable to play any fast paced/comp games. It is still " far " away from perfect, because for that you would at least need a 1000hz monitor and stable 1000fps assuming we are talking about a sample and hold displays. So you need to understand that I am not here talking about " what is enough " and clearly neither are you because 144hz is already way beyond of what anybody " needs " it is quite literally only about making the experience better. It has nothing to do with " being spoiled " trust me. I am sure you agree with me when I say that it would be the best if everybody was able to have a ( for example ) 1000hz 1440p OLED monitor with a pc that can run all games at native 1440p 1000hz 1000 fps. I would say that would be absolutely amazing but again, 480hz OLED is something that is already very close to that, which in my opinion is something that everybody should buy. Sure, if all you do is play single player / slow paced games and watch movies/youtube etc, then I would rather recommend a 4k slightly lower refresh rate monitor. There are many 4k 240hz oled monitors out there already, that will make the overall gaming experience good, but it could definitely be a lot better. 240hz will look blurry in any game if you just move around fast enough, but it is not REQUIRED. This is exactly what I am talking about. So once again, I am only talking about the overall experience being so close to perfect that you don't have to think about it being an issue basically ever. That is so far from what " we need " because I can work, watch youtube videos and movies and even play video games on a 30hz 30fps 1080p monitor, but is the overall experience going to be nice? No, and before you say " 144hz is completely different to 30hz " I know, but so is 144hz vs 1000hz. The jump from 60hz to 144hz is massive, and the difference between 144hz to 1000hz is almost as big in terms of " time between frames " but the overall experience and feel of it will actually be greater for multiple reasons. Less input delay, less flickering etc make it overall a lot better and bigger jump than going from 60hz to 144hz. Hopefully you understand my point now, have a good day. God bless you.

[@abc-ni9lp]

And what display standard is ready for 8K frames per second is this from NASA ?

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It seems to be a misleading advertisement, in that world apparently they're selling these to Hollywood cameras so the 7680Hz refresh rate isn't refresh rate, it's PWM, and the flickerless is on camera, it doesn't mean sample and hold. Check pinned comment

[@spyplane3979]

CAN you imagine were getting about 300hz best gaming display this would take a big gpu bank to do . Its possible but at what cost . A single 150 hz at best settings dependent on alot factors.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Below 1000fps is possible today, there's a demo you can try

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKHMq56BhNKNntU

[@spyplane3979]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4XXm4KcZa-FpKs

[@spyplane3979]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHOkqZyHnpehhsU

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

24 fps Hold my beer 😅

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😂

[@Stoddardian]

The guys at BlurBusters think they can create another emulator that will be able to replicate the subfield of plasmas. OLEDs just need to get to 500-600Hz for that to become possible. We don't need 7000Hz.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Most Plasmas have 4ms of persistence, the 600Hz means they flicker 10 times per frame. Two or 3 out of those 10 flashes are significantly brighter than the rest. A 240Hz OLED is already clearer than Plasmas

[@BBWahoo]

I want flatscreen CRT's

[@Stoddardian]

@@BBWahoo Me too. Canon was going to make them. They were called SED TVs.

[@chinogambino9375]

I think 1000hz would be needed to eliminate persistence blur in nearly all situations from a sample and hold display, even then its almost outlandish to have hardware powerful enough to drive a source that hard. We could play CSGO I guess at 1000hz but even that game breaks as high FPS. If you hate TAA I don't understand why you are hopeful about frame interpolation/generation and AI upscaling, both are temporal solutions that introduce trailing artifacts. Unless you are running at high frame rates the input lag still sucks which somewhat defeats the purpose of high FPS. To me the holy grail is simply eliminating persistence blur, to be able to do that sample and hold has to go, that means the solution must rely on BFI. The advantage is persistence blur can be reduced at 60hz and above, no altering of game code or developer time required. All games, old and new game are elevated in presentation. BFI becomes more viable as the brightness of self emissive displays grow, HDR may take a hit but a 5-10k nit microled display is going to be more than enough slightly dimmed. We cannot rely on game developers to care about motion clarity sadly, UE5 has filthy image quality despite its range of material and lighting effects and all developers worship it. No one is developing their own engines anymore. Its all about speed of development, with frame gen and DLSS devs are targeting sub normal 1080p and 4K resolutions in their recommended specs pages; Just look at Capcom with the new Monster Hunter. AI is a terrible crutch for everything now. Our last hope is the display makers giving us BFI, then maybe in time devs will wise up to TAA and DLSS wrecking image quality. I doubt it though. Really we need a 480hz OLED monitor with a good BFI implementation (Nvidia pulsar might be that) that enthusiast/progamers adopt and swear by to make it mainstream. I have started collecting old CRT TVs and monitors recently, insane what we gave up and while I have my C1 I will not go back to sample and hold as my main gaming display.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Asynchronous reprojection would make high refresh rate possible. The end game display has to be sample and hold to get full HDR brightness. Reducing the persistence to improve motion sacrifices brightness. For right now, I'd ve happy if these companies focused on flickering tech to improve motion at low FPS because low FPS is what we can get for now

[@EspHack]

8000hz? $$$ temporal AA? just turn it off games optimized to do 8000hz? AHAHAH

[@michaelmcgehee5932]

Lol this video is hilarious. It would be easier to get away from sample and hold and create something different.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I would like to have something different for now because we can't brute force high fps right now but Sample and hold is the future because of HDR brightness. Anything that's not Sample and hold is sacrificing picture quality due to brightness loss

[@michaelmcgehee5932]

​@plasmatvforgaming9648 so if a crt had hdr then the lcd/oled image would be brighter? What about projectors? It would be cool if you made a video about this because this is news to me.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

​@michaelmcgehee5932 A CRT could be 30k nits if it was Sample and Hold but it would burnt-in very fast, it wouldn't be possible. The pulse or rolling scan going left to right top to bottom on a CRT is brighter than 10k nits

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

IMO screen uniformity, clean panels and viewing angles with zero color shifting or any kind of compromises are the biggest challenge..

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'm concerned about the whites looking magenta on QD OLED

[@irun2sanaxox]

unless the whole system can do it efficiently mehh

[@MeLucky-KuNGPaO]

Man U hyper !

[@Cluxiu]

my 50hz monitor is better. prove me wrong😎

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It's better because it's yours and you can use it

[@abc-ni9lp]

7860Hz is CRT territory

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

CRTs are like 1000Hz

[@abc-ni9lp]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 High-quality CRT SVGA monitors used phosphors with lighting times of just a few microseconds (μs) , and phosphor afterglow was typically around 100-200 microseconds. ignoring the completely different image display technique and the fact that from about 30% of the blanking time it became almost invisible, I could estimate more around 20000-30000 Hz depending on the methodology

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'm saying 1000Hz meaning a 1000Hz sample and hold display could be as clear

[@abc-ni9lp]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 maybe some old TV have 1ms phosforus decay but 1000Hz is nowhere close to CRT not even same ballpark

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

It went wrong by throwing away the crt and go lcd which needs bullshit for even a clear image, back in the day, good video cables, 240p, a 30fps input, on a 100-120hz screen with a very common native resplution of 1440p lookes better then most 4k hdr lcds /screens now. What else we need next for this trash to show us a clear image, crystal lens glass, gass filled screens for a faster pixel response? Just quit it. If you ever had a crt, you know HDR, FullHD, 4K, motion clarity, or whatever they use to promote their image quality is bullshit compared to your old crt. We need line based technologies to be introduced back again!

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I wish CRTs come back too, but the environment is would make it impossible. They're trying to save the planet with displays that cost thousands

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 idk, most crts were basically glass, and not made with a lot of harmfull chemical other then coating the inside of the tube. i cant assume current tech to be less polluting because of all different and toxic chemical needed to create them. Glass is easily recyclable. With some basic electronics, electronics which can be neglated in terms of pollution.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I just did I quick search: "Cathode Ray Tubes (CRTs) from old televisions and computer monitors are a major source of e-waste pollution"

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 you have a point. But I guess our recycle tech has majorly improved as wel, we can even recycle lithium nowadays. But what about all flat panels tvs which break within 4 years of use compared to 30 years of use of a crt without any hickup.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Facts