Mark Patey flight testing VGs (Vortex Generators) on a Wag Aero Super Cub

This is the full VG flight test review, with before install test flights including numbers, installation, and then post test flights with numbers. If stalling your plane makes you nervous, get out and practice it until your heart rate doesn't go up any more, only the corners of your mouth. Flying is fun. Stay safe. :)

[@STOLSPEED]

Gday Mark, I'm John Gilpin. I made those Stolspeed VGs that you're using. A friend just alerted me to this video, so it certainly wasn't solicited. Very well done Mark, very solid analysis and really excellent presentation. Thank you for your encouraging comments. Enjoy your Stolspeed VGs for some real bush flying! JG

[@tomcoryell]

STOLSPEED I see you subscribe to Joe Spencer. Do you know if he is okay? He hasn’t posted a video in a few years now.

[@msmeyersmd8]

This is a “Million Dollar” unsolicited endorsement for a product that Will save lives. And for aircraft parts? It is dirt cheap. So it will be used by a lot of people. Not very many people accomplish something like that in their lives. I commend you for your effort.

[@STOLSPEED]

@@msmeyersmd8 Yes, I guess I could double the price and the Stolspeed VGs would still be cheap for the benefits that they give, but I'm not inclined to do that..... The business provides a basic retirement living and keeps me flying, and that's all I ask at this stage of life. I get a lot of pleasure when packaging each VG kit and imagining the benefits that it will give some other flyer, and that's enough for me.

[@msmeyersmd8]

STOLSPEED I wasn’t saying you should charge more. I was suggesting the “buying” that kind of endorsement would cost $1 million. I was commending you for the benefit your product gives at such a low price. 👍🏻😎

[@STOLSPEED]

@@tomcoryell Joe is a good friend and we stay in touch once in awhile. I asked him about your query and this is his reply: ""...Got tired of fooling with those little cameras. I just like to "turn it on" and it's ready to go. Too many millenials designing products and running companies. Learning curve to everything.....""

[@dustyrhoads2602]

That's definitely an impressive difference! I'm constantly blown away by the level of expertise and professionalism that all of the Flying Cowboys show in these videos. On top of that, the family atmosphere that you guys convey between fellow aviators is very refreshing when compared to other "entertainment" and media that is out there. Even more impressive is the love and respect that the whole Patey family shows towards one another! No need to look to elected officials, actors, athletes, or (typical) big business owners for role models; just jump on KZbin and pick any video with a Patey in it and you'll find a great example to follow. Thanks to you and all of your family for being so uplifting and encouraging- it truly is refreshing to see what a good family dynamic is supposed to look like!

[@801pilot]

Thank you so much for the kind words, made my day ❤️🙏

[@carlyeiter9263]

Makes mine also, thanks for you all doing so generously and genuinely. It is the American way

[@odinn3379]

I'm really impressed at the stalled turns. Most planes will spin if you do that to them but that cub just happily sat there and gently sank.

[@SpyGeorgilis]

Those VGs are working extra great, considering that wearing a tie in a backcountry plane increases your stall speed by at least 5kts..! ;D

[@801pilot]

😂😂😂

[@jerrymiller276]

I was going to say that I thought there was a firm rule against wearing a tie in any STOL aircraft except a bolo tie if you are wearing western wear and are a Flying Cowboy.

[@bradargyle5524]

Just another day at the office.

[@tecolote9598]

What I noticed, after putting VG's on my plane, was similar to your results as it relates to slow flight and stall. It was coming in and actually landing that presented a problem. Although the wing allowed me to fly slower and stall slower, the first time I came in to land at the slower speed, I realized I didn't have enough elevator authority to be able to flare. Looking around, I noticed the carbon cubs I looked at all had a gap seal between the horizontal stabilizer and the elevator, so I took some hundred mile an hour tape and gave it a whirl. The gap seal put the flare back into the elevator at the slower speeds. After testing, I removed the tape and made it permanent. That gap seal made the slower flight of the VG's usable for me in all aspects of flight. I don't know if that was unique to my plane or if it makes a difference on all planes. If you feel like you lack elevator authority, you might want to give it a try.

[@mantlepowers4781]

I had the same result on my cub, what surprised me is that with the gap seal the tail shakes a lot less in climbout.

[@portnuefflyer]

@@mantlepowers4781 You don't have VG's on the bottom of the hor stab?

[@hernanposnansky7154]

Tecolote, sealing the gap in the horizontal stabilizer is indeed very effective as it is on the vertical stabilizer. The application of a flexible tape as you described is ok. This modification is considered a minor alteration and can be applied to certificated aircraft with a field approval from an ASI authorized to do so. The submission of Form 337 is required. For details consult advisory circular AC-210A www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisiory_circular/AC_43-210A.pdf

[@michaelrice500]

@@hernanposnansky7154 My local FSDO "What's a 337?" Scared of lawyers, I guess.

[@dandahlen3532]

Over the top and didn't stall. Mark that was awesome and from the heart. Not only impeccable but extremely entertaining. Kudos.

[@LegacyStudio]

Look at Mark in full style while playing with some VGs. Great video Mark!

[@murrayfromaz]

Tell Mike to get another scrappy vid out I'm jones n Love both you guys. love love love is what i got

[@anselmarcovici7940]

I was looking ib the background for an update on scrappy, but I saw draco, tgis video was recorded a while ago.

[@MrWATCHthisWAY]

Mark, it’s great to see you putting out content here. Excellent content with through examination of your process. Please follow up with the elevator VG’s after attaching. Also I think you may have a new engineered project for a fuel can that doesn’t leak while fueling. If you can manage this one, man could you take the market by storm!!! Fly safe Mark... fly often!! Cheers

[@daveaver]

I was thinking the same on fuel container.

[@MrWATCHthisWAY]

Dave Aver - was thinking with so many high wing aircraft a container that #1 doesn’t leak #2 could mount externally on the outside of the aircraft to prevent fumes inside the aircraft #3 easy to handle. Not too much to design?? Lol.. but first design a container that JUST doesn’t leak while pouring after time.

[@portnuefflyer]

NOT the elevator, the horizontal stabilizer, about 1.5" from the trailing edge of same. I've never seen VG's on an elevator....

[@commentatron]

FWIW, Stolspeed's website says the following, in bold font, at the bottom of their installation page: "Note - Be very careful when refueling wing tanks - Polycarbonate is very tough stuff, but fuel destroys it!"

[@68jlee]

We put VGs on our Rans S-12 and it made a HUGE difference! We put them on the wings and the entire tail including rudder and elevator (top side) not bottom as I think I heard you say. The S-12 is notorious for being mushy at slow speed but this took all of that out. On the first test I was taxying down a pretty rough grass strip so taxying nose off and noticed it got really smooth at normal taxy speed. When I looked down I was actually off the ground. I wont own another airplane without them. I am 100 percent sure if you fix up your tail with them you will find your elevator and rudder authority will be not only increased but multiplied. Blue skies bro!

[@kevinsellsit5584]

I learned a lot in 25 minutes, thank you. Air is amazing. From the crazy layered front wings on modern F1 cars to those tiny vortex generators making a huge difference in aircraft control ability there is much to learn about air.

[@dsrgarage]

Had me sold on them when you start talking about the faster roll rate while being pushed around by a wind gust!!

[@BrianJ001]

So looking forward to Scrappy's wings with VGs installed. Great VG explanation. Thanks.

[@davidrobins4025]

The installation of the VG's is a very good thing to do - almost essential by my observation. Thanks for sharing the event with us, Mark. Stay safe and do the flying I would love to be able to do.

[@anonpers0n]

you are are a refreshing breath of air after your brothers hyperactive antics :P . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . just playing good stuff

[@krissfemmpaws1029]

That is very interesting Mark. What people don't understand is that 5 mph drop in speed, drops the the kinetic energy of the aircraft by roughly 40%. The aircraft design I'm working on is all about a safer STOL airplane so the pilot has a larger margin of safety at low airspeed. But still keep it simple and guick to scratch build.

[@jlfrodsham]

Double the Patey's ought to be double the videos! Keep 'em coming! Tell your brother we are gonna need a Scrappy update, or I might have to show up in person. :)

[@GRJannyDempsey]

We had VGs installed on our S model Bonanza several years ago. The cruise speed was not changed at all but at slow speed, WOW, the plane became very stable. Control on final was extremely improved. Best improvement we made in the 25 years we have flown our beautiful V Tail.

[@roncall6245]

I haven't told my kids (9 year old twins) yet that you and Mike are different people... but the family loves your videos! Trying to install a love of aviation in my little ones.

[@cpolt1192]

Awesome Mark! Anything that makes such an effect that you need to re calibrate the A.O.A. Warnings is absolutely amazing!👍

[@lauraradigan4114]

Thanks Mike for doing this video. I’m just completing the restoration on my 46 7AC Champ and installed VG’s I’m excited to see if my plane responds as yours did. Now I know what to anticipate. Thanks for taking the guesswork out for me. Fly safe.

[@blankblank9117]

I'm a simple man. I see a Patey video and I like it.

[@mikebaker7739]

Fascinating video and results, Mark. Thanks so much for sharing. It's all good knowing the theory, but witnessing the difference in practical application is really valuable. I'm sure I'm like others...if you do VGs on the elevators, I'd be VERY interested to see that before/after, too. 😉 Thanks again! 🙂

[@artd.]

Mr. Mike I think you have opened a lot of eyes to VGs, Great video as always. Thank You....

[@tonyduncan9852]

That mod appears to be a must for every aircraft. That was really most interesting. Thanks.

[@wroller5013]

Great video a lot of information ! I fly RC but love all the videos about building and modifying things.

[@TheMrBrianh]

Your right it's a flying cowboy Christmas! 3 months in a row a Mark Patey video!

[@jbnwater2606]

Sold! Just Subscribed you have a viewer for life! Great job with the video and why the airline tie?

[@ColeAviation]

FANTASTIC INFORMATIONAL VIDEO!!! THANKS MARK!!!! PLEASE UPLOAD MORE OFTEN. 😉👍🏼

[@slam854]

Excellent analysis. Very scientifically presented so we may take useful data away. Important to reverify in your own application and document.

[@tomcoryell]

Hi Mark, Thanks for doing this research. I have always wondered about how much improvement would be gained by using VGs. Real data helps tremendously! That 3m adhesive is strong, I have used it in other applications and if the prep was done right it will really stick well.

[@williamboyd8146]

thanks Mark, I just bought my VG from Annie @ Micro Aero Dynamics.....I like a kid waiting for Santa to arrive!!

[@STOLSPEED]

JG back again. I just watched that video again, and I do have to comment. If a X-wind lifts a wing when your hanging in there slow, please don't throw the stick over, STOMP ON THE RUDDER instead..... The wing is already at a high AofA and throwing the downwind side aileron even more downward is liable to cause it to stall and loose lift and increase drag that side and drop that side wing, raising the wind side wing even more and suddenly it's all over. Seen it happen all to many times......

[@glenn.duffind2695]

Great video.... now I really need to look at VG's for my Cherokee... Art Mathison has good ones but can not find them for sale... may need to go with the Micro VG's.... and new wing tips... this winter!!...

[@XX629-Bulldog]

Really interesting thank you. You mentioned possibly putting VGs under the horizontal stabiliser to try to get its stall speed down - that would be a really cool followup.

[@ashsmitty2244]

I guess, now it’s a matter of the best shaped VG’s and exactly, EXACTLY the best place for each ac.

[@FredWhosDead]

Wow. For the cost it’s a no brained. Thanks for doing the research Mark. You da man.

[@saltzen961]

Good video Mr. Mark . I'm impressed with your thoroughness .

[@Coops777]

You've set the standard - Business dress now. No more dirty T shirts on your brother's videos

[@thelaneman]

Made some out of a plastic orange juice container for my RC bush plane and they completely eliminated tip stalls at low speeds, landing speeds are significantly slower and more stable too.

[@BlueridgeAcres]

Ah, very nice, the Bob Hoover shirt and tie look

[@jwschrag]

Great video! I had similar amazing results on my J3 Cub with an STC set of VGs from MicroAerodynamics. Power on stall speed went from 39 mph to about 29 mph. Had to learn that my Cub will not produce enough lift for straight and level flight below 40mph so slow approaches require throttle to arrest the descent instead of flare alone. Yes, it has VGs on the horizontal stab underside. Made it a different airplane! FWIW, I am about ready to buy all new gas can spouts. Tired of leaking cans while refueling.

[@anatolycorp.]

Thanks for the video! I'll definitely buy those for my airplane in the future!

[@psgflier]

The "moose hunter stall" is cross controlled so when the stall breaks the plane snap rolls to the other side into an almost inverted stall/spin. The only way to recover from it at low altitude is not to let it happen. To me the safety aspect of having vgs on the wing and strakes in my case on the tail is the continued aileron and elevator control, thus airplane control, at really slow airspeeds. The two mods I recommend for cubs are vortex generators and F Attle Dodges defroster kit. You might not need the defroster kit in your area, but it changes the flow of the heater output so it doesn't burn your shoes.

[@kryan318]

love the flight testing in the business attire. thanks for putting out content that even us non fliers can enjoy

[@willdowning3577]

Thank you Mark. Excellent video. Thank you for sharing.

[@ikay2102]

Love your tie Mark !!! That's The only uniform to do test flight 🤣🤣🤣

[@L2FlyMN]

VG’s are such a cool invention in technology!!!

[@brunowright6984]

I fitted them to my 701 after removing the fixed slats. Better top speed and slower more controlled low speed. Best thing ever.

[@dadams8086]

$600.00 for my PA -12. Bottom end on my airspeed indicator is 40 mph. No indicated airspeed at full flaps, no power, it wouldn’t break without a hard pull back. Totally predictable. Well worth the money. Great video.

[@leeadams5941]

Good vids and like the way you did it, My question though is I keep hearing about a build your doing where you are using a lot of titanium parts and as I am working on [design at the moment} a four place cub with mostly titanium alloy frame I am extremely interested in your project...when do we get to see a video or get some info?

[@simitarknut2201]

Is that a Colin Furze "safety tie" you're wearing?

[@801pilot]

😂😂😂

[@krissfemmpaws1029]

LOL I was thinking the same thing. Dad was an Alaskan bush pilot from the late 40s into the 50s. He was bush flying till the early 70s prospecting in western Canada. I can't remember him ever wearing a tie. God I miss the man.

[@chrisbowpiloto]

Nice test and presentation. Now I need to buy a plane to put my vgs on...

[@jimwatkins2825]

What a great video! Super fun and informative. Way to keep the stoke on. Looking forward to more!

[@Senegal01]

Very impressed, but more impress by a guy in a white shirt and tie flying a cub! Strange not someone with a plaid shirt.

[@flymachine]

What an amazing coincidence - I also wear my tie and shirt when I test VG's! I wonder if the fuel soaking of the wing surface has an effect, hmmm? Very cool vid, I would like to see a view of the instruments during the test

[@alanh2077]

Great report, very thorough! Thanks! Did you end up doing them on the bottom of the elevators? I've also seen some planes with them on the vertical stab as well.

[@joebloggs8785]

$96 is not bad at all, CubCrafters sell VGs for $1500! That's the beauty of experimental, you're not paying for the STC.

[@dburton7929]

Thanks Mark, great report. Keep up the great work !

[@portnuefflyer]

It's 2020, and you're just joining the VG party?! I put Micro Aerodynamics VG's on my Rans S-7 20+ years ago. Seriously, I thought their benefits were so well known by now, as to be yesterday's news.

[@BruceBusby]

Looking pretty snazzy in that tie Mr Patey!

[@vincentmolloy5660]

Very cool video Mark. Its a pity you didn't have footage on how exactly you marked the wing up to determine where that 7% of chord actually is. I cant find a video on KZbin that shows exactly how to do that. Great test and cant wait to get mine on my plane. Thanks bud.

[@lschmidt2405]

Hi Mark, l'm guessing the tie & puffer jacket weighed the same as each other? Awesome video!

[@dougarroyo794]

great video Mark! Any sense of what is the useful life expectancy of these particular VGs?

[@1950harleycharley]

Great video Mark! I am so used to seeing Mike that it is wonderful to see that you are involved in kit planes too....The Wag-Aero appears to be a great little airplane...I don't know if you tell anywhere, but I was curious which engine you are using in your Aero?

[@genesloan3175]

Interesting. I'm not a pilot. And now I think I quit my flying lessons because the 152 I was training in, didn't have the VG's, and I scared myself so bad in the turning stall. I never soloed. It's interesting to watch and ride along with you and others.

[@ludwigrieger7556]

Thanks, totally convinced. I have to add them to my Bearhawk.

[@yuben112]

Cool. This reminds me of the bumps on whale fins leading edge which supposedly function the same way as the vertex generators.

[@billroberts9182]

Great video-thx! I recommend VGs on the horizontal elevator. I glued mine down and then put a dollar patch on because flying on skiis and landing in gravel I was knocking them off. Question: Were you using indicated airspeed or GPS groundspeed? I don't think the plane actually flies any slower (maybe 1 mph) but your indicated airspeeds go down because of the increased relative angle of the air on the wing (pitot tube). I have tested with a GPS and IAS (no wind) and I couldn't see any stall speed reduction except,maybe, for 1 or 2 mph. But, the wing will fly at a much higher angle of attack, and power off stalls are as benign as they can be. Aileron authority, and elevator authority remain no matter what (of course except in a full power complete stall). The airplane is more "heavy feeling" in turbulence and once you fly off of the ground you will not settle back down like you can without VGs. I have a certified cub and Micro VGs. For a real thrill, go to altitude and test the stall at full flaps full power (keep the ball centered!). You will not believe the angle of the wing relative to the horizon- and expect an abrupt drop! In my BFR recently we tried to simulate a departure stall with full power turning to the left (no flaps). The airspeed indicated 22MPH (straight ahead stall occurs at 0 to 10 mph indicated) and we were maintaining altitude, no nose drop, and turning at an incredible rate. Our turning radius had to be incredibly small. I was afraid of engine overheating or problems with oil lub with my wing at 45 degrees to the horizon. I told the instructor if I was ever in that configuration, I would first have to have a major stroke since I will never be in that configuration with a sane, cogent mind!

[@bushyfly2]

On my 172 I noticed the vg's gave a smoother ride in rough air. Others have told me the same thing.

[@HookedOnUtah]

Great video, I'm stoked to see me some Mike P......

[@ABC-rh7zc]

16% more speed is 35% more energy, so pretty significant. It also means around 33% more stopping distance. Losing that much landing roll is a big deal. Nice.

[@brentheilman8910]

Nice! I thought the VGS would have been bigger than what they were but they work!

[@fredgrove7347]

I love planes and you know your stuff

[@SirMasterJoe]

Mark I have 2 questions. First are you going to put the VG's on the tail? Second, I am thinking of building an Zenith 801 but the factory is strongly discouraging a Turbo. What turbo did you use on yours and did you have to make many major modifications to the plane to get it all working?

[@flyingdash8]

Mark,did you do the underside of each horizontal stabilizer at the hinge line? It will really help your pitch authority at very slow speeds.

[@patrickdavey9692]

Bring on more videos!

[@RunFast64]

Big positive change to flight characteristics. Will the VG's ever pop off? Definitely a new preflight item to check.

[@801pilot]

Yes they can but it’s rare and usually pilot induced from washing the plane with a brush and not being careful. Preflight is easy, take a look every time you climb up there to fuel 🤠👍

[@RunFast64]

@@801pilot Never have had them.....just thinking out loud. Definitely a must have. Probably need to take care if clearing snow from the wing. Awesome video/content.....exposes people to elements of flight test. Worked at Boeing Flight Test for years so I appreciate testing and details rigor.

[@brent3523]

Great thanks for the ride DUNEDIN FL

[@n206ja]

I debated whether or not to paint my StolSpeed VG's, but found that the VG's translucent material more or less "blends" with the paint on the wing and looks good unpainted.

[@JamesLaursen]

Thanks for posting this. I learned something new.

[@normankeoghan5298]

Hi Mark that’s cool , I am not a pilot have had a play on the controls a couple of times. Can you explain why they make so much difference please? AWSOME Videos

[@DavidBruner_NJ]

Nice video and report Mark!

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Excellent...What was the fuel burn ?....Thanks Mark...!

[@frijoli9579]

Cool video! Where is Faith airstrip?

[@coppi60]

Wow!! Mark was wearing a tie!!!!!! Great video as usual:)

[@vendter]

On my plane I have them on the bottom of the stabilizer as well. I am curious if you would get any more out of it by doing that.

[@FarmerTed]

Same on my m5-235 maule, the ones on the elevator did more than ones on the wing!

[@mikejones-dt8vj]

you going to put some vg's on the elevator? like the tie but loved the hat

[@RomanKozlov007]

Look like so much fun! Flying is my dream - I hope to join the aviation family soon! Mark, are you building a plane similar to SCRAPPY?

[@flycatchful]

I installed VGs on my radio controlled model 1/4 scale STOL Super Cub and and now it is transformed into STOL on steroids.

[@N937LC]

Is the tie to honor Bob Hoover or just Sunday best?

[@jimmyd7071]

If he had just had a pocket protector it would have been official !

[@shoop4040]

Flying Bob Hoover style with the tie .

[@gearbender49]

Mark, You mentioned you "maybe we should add VG's to the Horizontal Stabilizer". I didn't pick up if you did in fact do that. I just finished installing on my Bearhawk wings. Just wondering what your thoughts and results were if you installed on the Horizontal Stabilizer??? thanks

[@kstricl]

Not a pilot, but damn, that Cub looks forgiving. And I have to agree with you on your conclusion, anytime you can see a multiple percentage improvement in safety like that for so cheap, it's a no brainer. Just out of curiosity, what was your sink rate like when you were at full flaps, no notch? And would it be survivable? (Not for the airframe obviously, but occupants.)

[@airgliderz]

All ways wondered if they made a measurable difference, wow it's significant. Test then verify the only way.

[@ChrisB257]

Fascinating Mark (give Mike a nudge - seems ages since he posted a video!). Seems these devices are pretty usefully effective.

[@grahamrowe6278]

Nice that you should put the shirt and tie on for us Mark. It looked a little warm for the waistcoat.

[@drmckinley]

Love your videos. Great job. Also like the cowboy hat. Kool. Thanks for testing videos.

[@Mauleflyer100rv]

VGs do more than lower stall speed, they increase aileron authority at slow speeds. As far as Maule’s go, it is a huge increase in authority. Stall speed was low enough to start.