😂9mm+P Rivals .357 Sig?🤣🤨 Federal HST 9mm+P VS Federal HST .357 Sig 'Fair' Ballistic Gel Test

[@GunSam]

I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?! I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo. The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).

[@markradzwion5547]

Because most of these jug-heads parrot what BS & malarkey they hear from other morons who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground either. Good vid, .357SIG is way better than 9mm/.40/.45

[@PPISAFETY]

Just a couple of comments. The .357 SIG was conceived as a law enforcement duty round for use in duty-sized pistols.. My former agency was an early adopter in the SIG Pro pistol and our results in actual shootings, especially compared to the first generation 147 grain loads we used that were really poor stoppers. We found that we could get acceptable results in tests by using 115 grain 9mm +P+ rounds that were pushed fast enough to force expansion, but our gun manufacturer refused to warranty our pistols with these rounds. When using standard pressure .357 SIG rounds we had full warranty coverage which made our chief happy. Before we bought new guns we allowed the rank and file to test the .45 ACP, the .40 S&W, and the .357 SIG. The overwhelming favorite was the .357 SIG. Patrol officers felt that both the .40 and the .45 had too much muzzle flip, while the .357 SIG was just loud (and it was). Our original duty load was the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot, which initially had a muzzle velocity of 1,450 fps from a 4 inch barrel. Based on feedback from police agencies, Speer cut that back to 1,350 fps, and Federal loaded the similar but unbonded HST round at the same speed. Our officers shot it well and most of our actual shootings were concluded with a single shot. This was a major boost to morale. Our guys and girls had a lot of confidence in the cartridge, as did our State Troopers who also adopted the .357 SIG. And this with a round that was nowhere near the cartridge's pressure limits. It was almost ten additional years until factory 9mm loads for police duty became truly acceptable, and the 9mm HST round is now quite good as a carry load for off duty smaller guns or a duty weapon as well. But it still isn't quite in the same league with the .357 SIG. The Sig round is more difficult to handload, and is more expensive to buy, neither of which was an issue for its intended audience, which was police agencies buying with taxpayer money. Chronograph readings aside, in your video when you shoot the steel target, I can hear the .357 rounds hitting harder than the 9mm. If I were back on patrol, I'd carry either load, but would slightly prefer the .357 SIG if it was an option. I'd say as a police duty round the 9mm +P is now "acceptable" while the .357 SIG is "ideal".

[@laughingdog6010]

The 357 SIG is a cool cartridge

[@georgemoore3304]

NC Highway Patrol uses the .357 Sig. They’ve had tremendous success with it. The trainers swear by it. It beats 9mm and 40 in immediate stops and easily beats 45 acp through intermediate barriers like auto glass. I carry it in a compact Glock 23 converted to .357 Sig. It’s good medicine for rabid predators of 2 or 4 leg variants. Great video !

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I think that NC is where I saw one of the recent videos on how well it works.

[@georgemoore3304]

@@GunSam yes sir! And that’s not a fluke. That’s what’s expected from the .357 Sig.

[@tedmurphy5516]

Do you know what kind of ammo they use?

[@nelsonr1467]

Only marginally better than 9mm. It's not worth the cost to shoot or the extra recoil.

[@georgemoore3304]

@@tedmurphy5516 Speer Gold Dot 125

[@GunSam]

I kind of enjoyed seeing the 'best case scenario VS real world scenario' in the ballistic test. Anyone else agree or disagree?

[@dingomanz7]

Its good to see when using best ammo for each caliber...like buffalo bore, cor bon, underwood ect

[@TooManyChoices1]

Haven’t watched yet… but we all know the outcome 😂! .357 and .40 S&W are both stronger than 9mm +p … Can’t deny physics !! Numbers don’t lie!!

[@joelclark2130]

I agree, train real world. Scenarios!

[@Fudmottin]

I liked this test.

[@professorpewpuew]

I like it. But I think it might be more useful on those smaller calibers.

[@murrayjimm]

I have had both .40 and .357 sig in several guns for about 20 years. I strongly favor the .357 sig as a flat shooting powerful cartidge and with the necked cartridge it never fails to feed. And now with a few guns that shoot the 9+, I still have the same opinion on placing .357 sig at the top. Thanks for your care in running good tests for us, and the informative info.

[@robertseafield5810]

The 9mm needs all the help it can get. The 357 SIG is a step above. Dont listen to the complaints. You are doing just fine.

[@michaelheiss8022]

Thanks ! Even when I hear someone tell me the .357 Magnum is Obsolete , I chuckle , It's always been a awesome Cartridge and one of my favorites ! Then when I got the chance to try out the .357 Sig , I fell in love with it , it's just like an old friend that I know if the inevitable situation occurred , I have absolute confidence it will get the job done ! Some people like it and some don't , that's why there are so many options , I don't try to bag on them and I laugh when someone tries to do that with me ! I've been using .357 for over 40 years , I know what it can and cannot do ! Thanks again for the videos you make , they are very informative !

[@Dennisthemenace40]

There is a considerable difference between the two. We’re talking about over 20% increase in velocity and more than 45% increase in energy. But everyone needs to honestly assess their own capabilities and needs. There’s no benefit to improved ballistics if you’re not able to make use of it. Use the most effective caliber that you can regularly practice with and make good hits with.

[@69CamaroSS]

VERY well done video!! 357 Sig showed a 33% HIGHER energy…..that is NOT a negligible difference! Side note: many manufacturers (that you mentioned) also make +P loads for the 357 Sig which produce about 150% the energy of the 9!!!

[@josephtucciarone6878]

Thank you for all the extra comments that help us to choose.

[@noahmercy-mann4323]

Since they both perform well on target, it realistically comes down to a question of which one the owner can shoot better. Despite minimal difference in felt recoil, it certainly appeared that muzzle flip was more pronounced with the Sig cartridge, which could slow accurate follow-up shots. Capacity, muzzle flash/blast, ammo availability...they all have a place in the equation as well.

[@ftdefiance1]

Ammo availability for training can be an issue as well

[@GunSam]

Both of you are spot on, and the very reason why law enforcement uses the 9mm the most.

[@SoWavvyy]

I think 9mm is overall a good round for self defense home defense and law enforcement. Hell even our us army uses 9mm for combat. It’s not a round to sneeze at. I like these comparisons but, why bash 9mm for not being as powerful even though it’s proven? Ammo for 9mm is really cheap. I work full time I have rent and bills and like to go to the range at least twice a month with 100-200 rounds each visit. 357 sig practice fmj is just way too expensive for my budget. I shoot 9mm very very fast on target where it needs to go at a good range (15-40) yards. I’m tired of 9mm guys hating on bigger calibers and I’m tired of people with bigger calibers hating on 9mm. I think 9mm is a good standard that will do the job with low recoil and a lot of rounds. More practice=wins gun fights.

[@noahmercy-mann4323]

@@SoWavvyy I never bash anyone's choice of cartridges (although I try to dissuade folks from using anything under 32 H&R or .380 ACP). My recommendation has always been to use the biggest caliber you can comfortably, accurately, and quickly shoot. For a great many that is the 9mm, and modern bullets have made it a viable choice. And I personally give no weight to the "power" a cartridge develops, since a foot-pound never stopped a bad guy.

[@michaelheiss8022]

LAX Ammo has plenty ! 😁

[@d.hayward5232]

Excellent video Sam! I was impressed by the first shot with the 9mm (that 124gr HST is what I carry), then the 357Sig kinda humbled it a little, LOL. So glad you got that conversion barrel, my HD handgun is a P226 in 357Sig - been loving these comparison videos!

[@GunSam]

Thank you, thanks for watching.

[@lanedexter6303]

Interesting comparison. Both appear to be excellent rounds. Appears the bullets are carefully constructed for expected velocities.

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@c.r.chandler5905]

When I was with my agency, we were issued Glocks chambered in .40 and we had zero choice in carrying anything else as a primary weapon. A friend of mine would also qualify with a Glock 32 and eventually I asked her why? We did some hip pocket testing by shooting some melons with our issued weapons, a Glock 19 a fella carried as a backup and her Glock 32. After I saw the difference in damage, I jumped on the bandwagon. Now that I have retired and have a choice, my edc everyday is a SIG P-229 in .357SIG. I know it fires a .355 caliber projectile however after seeing the damage that it does along with watching the video of that North Carolina Trooper, I 100% believe in the .357SIG.

[@sonnygunz9207]

.357 Sig is badazz and alot of fun to shoot. Great video, sir.

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@vincentkline7656]

Yet another excellent video! Thanks! The .357 Sig is clearly a better defense round. About the same as the .357 Magnum with 125’s. Whether that advantage is enough for you to upgrade from a 9mm is totally up to you. Thanks again!

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@ariesmight6978]

Why wouldn't a " big advantage " be proper persuading. Would you rather have a defense handgun. In .44 magnum, 10mm, or at least .45acp. Or would you prefer 9mm or smaller. Which is great for taking out all those pesky squirrels, raccoons, skunks, and opossums.

[@allenbolen9705]

Price and availability is why it’s not more popular. Great performance!

[@andrewhaley8992]

The 357 is good in a full sized carry option, it’s hot to handle. Best 9mm carry load in my humble opinion. Thanks for the content.

[@usa-rb5fi]

I have a baby Glock in .357 sig, and it’s very manageable to control and shoot follow up shots.

[@SoWavvyy]

@@usa-rb5fi You need to get a Glock 29 and feel full power loads inside of that.

[@Predalien195]

I've usually found most 9mm +P+ is what rivals .357 Sig in most cases in duty length barrels in terms of numbers on paper. There are some advantages to .357 Sig within certain capacities of LEO's. A prime example... for a long time in my state, state troopers were issued .357 Sigs and they would compete every year in pistol marksmanship competitions and win quite often. For their needs, being often on the road where shooting through cover of things like vehicles or small trees is a reality it made a good deal of sense for them. There was also the potential of a dangerous animal when outdoors so there's that too. They eventually switched over to 9mm however. Primarily due to logistics. 9mm is just plain cheaper to buy and it meant more time training. Most officers were still comfortable and capable with 9mm so in their case they weren't really giving up much in the end. And that's ultimately why 9mm is replacing the Sig as a whole. Sure, the Sig is "better" but the 9mm is "good enough" and that's a better standard of measurement for most agencies. "X" is wonderful but "Y" does the job just fine and costs less. I don't believe issues like the reduced capacity are that big of a deal but one does have to factor that in too. The troopers I mentioned were issued Glocks so they went from 13 rounds to 17 rounds, the extra 4 can make up for the "loss" of power per round. I think the main reason they used to win so many competitions with the Sig though was because of how flat shooting it is. Even at distances like 50 yards it's incredibly easy to hit a target. But as a civilian, short of handgun hunting... I can't think of a good scenario where shooting at ranges like that won't land you in prison short of very extreme circumstances. One other plus to the Sig is that in a carbine, much like .357 Magnum it gets significantly different performance in a longer barrel and it can even change the way the bullet behaves on a target. It is one of the few pistol rounds that can get rifle like performance in a carbine. But I ultimately agree with your conclusion. It doesn't rival it, I too have seen those sorts of videos where multiple rounds of 9mm fail to stop a threat but in another video the .357 Sig or the .40 S&W do it in one. However, I always remember videos like that are there for two fold... One, there's somebody who wants to try to discredit the 9mm but the other aspect is "This is a worst case scenario of self defense". But people are funny... one man can get grazed by a .22 LR, scream and cry like he is on his death bed, and the next can take 8 shots to the torso and act like all is well. Whatever you end up using, just practice with it and make sure you're confident in it in the end.

[@828enigma6]

Don't necessarily disagree, but since police switched to 9mm , by and large, have noticed a sharp uptick in officer involved shootings where the suspect had to be shot multiple times to effect a stop. When agencies were using 357 Sig, 1-2 torso hits were sufficient to shut them down.

[@Predalien195]

@@828enigma6 Well I've seen videos that show both points of effectiveness. I'd have to sift through police reports and compile numbers to get a true figure. Last big thing I'd seen was a report compiled of 13,000 self defense shootings and they recorded the calibers used. .22's and .25's were recorded as average taking 5-6 shots but .380, 9mm, .40 S&W, .38 Special, .45 ACP, and .357 Magnum were all average of about 3 shots but never more than 4. .357 Sig wasn't on the list but if published numbers are to be believed then it would likely have fallen in the same category of effectiveness. But I do personally know some officers who previously used Sig and .40 respectively. They don't think much of the 9mm and they do have some field experience as to where/why they came to that conclusion, thus I still believe they are superior in ways but like I said before, logistics and such. Police are funded by cities and the likes, so if they can save budget money by going to 9mm over .40 or .357 Sig they will.

[@squatchwatch5237]

@@828enigma6 I've noticed as well. While the suspect might not stop with just 1 round from a .357 sig, I'm of the opinion that your chances go up significantly for that situation to happen.

[@ogbobbye]

I like the fact you shoot quick you are after all showing and testing defensive rounds not target practicing. being able to manage recoil and get back on target is very important. you can have the best preforming bullet but if follow up shots are missed that great performance does little good.

[@SoWavvyy]

@@bobjones-bt9bh depends on the kind of situation you’re in with all that energy. All handgun rounds are not close to rifle rounds so is 100 more fpe really going to make the difference if you hit the right spot? No.

[@kendelvalle8299]

Replay and watch how the .357 Sig lifts the gel block off the platform. That's the beauty of the .357 Sig... energy dump.

[@876mpr]

.38 Super isn’t far behind .357 Sig. Don’t understand why it’s never been more popular.

[@felipeviera3330]

Thank for the video. If the ones that are complaining about your shooting. Hopefully the Mr Bad guys stay still for them. I appreciate what you do. Be safe.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

Get read for underwood fan boys. I'm really glad you did another 357 sig video I've already really liked it but the lack of ammo and I've heard reloading can be kind of not the easiest with it having such a short neck. But I've always thought it was better than the 9mm and the sig was more fun on the few times I've shot. It was a very good videos thanks for your work and for staying when you are cold and tired

[@GunSam]

Thanks

[@usa-rb5fi]

Even with underwood the sig is still more powerful.

[@louv4437]

You have the most accurate testing protocol on KZbin! Keep up the great work and thanks!

[@pecosjane]

"... shooting too fast." As I recall, the "40 yard drill" results from a real world situation where the target was shooting back (shot first actually). In that scenario, I'd complain that you are shooting 'too slow'. i.e 10 round, 8 hits, 15 seconds or less.> your pace in this video looks like 10 rounds in over 40 seconds. This video is a great and clear comparison of these cartridges ("make up your own mind"), thank you, AND I suggest you ignore the Trolls. Shoot faster, almost three times faster. (ps: and anyone wants to harass me as an "armchair operator", I freely admit I could not make 8 hits in 15 seconds.)

[@nathanlambshead4778]

I find it fascinating that anyone wold consider the 9 +P to be equal to the 357 SIG. Obviously no idea about powder capacity and pressures. Federal sure knows how to make ammo though. HST is pretty awesome. I personally love the 357 SIG round, but I do not own one. I carry 9x19 in winter, and use either Gold Dot +P or HST +P. Thanks again for the video.

[@GunSam]

Yeah it's common sense lol. The 9mm is like 35,000 PSI and if I recall, 38,500 for +P and who knows for +P+. The .357 Sig I believe is 40,000 PSI with a larger case capacity. Not hard to understand.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

@@GunSam Human nature. More new shooters today and most have 9x19. People want to think they have the best of the best, no matter the facts. :)

[@GunSam]

@@nathanlambshead4778 Yes, I was just thinking of that recently. Back even 10 years ago there was a pretty high demand for caliber testing, one against the other, people still respected the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum and so on. Now days it's everyone pushing 9mm, then people quoting "facts" that 9mm with today's technology outperforms everything. If you happen to prove a point about internal ballistics, "well 9mm is 17+1". Frankly I am glad my average subscriber age is like 55, I couldn't exist if my subscriber base was younger.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

@@GunSam And this 64 year old appreciates your videos also.

[@kentwilliams3326]

I would love to see a comparison between a Underwood's light weight 65 & 68 grain 9mm+P and .357 Sig. Now that would be a hoot!

[@Ford360CID]

At close range the 9mm+P at 1200 fps would expand in the soft media but at 40 yards the .357 sig at over 1400 fps would still have enough velocity to reliably to expand vs the 9mm +P at 40 yards, another excellent demo Sam...BTW looks like its time to change seasons again unlike california, michigan has 4 beautiful seasons i always look forward to see how the background change the way its looks season to season your outer wear also changes, by looking at it i can tell which season your in, stay warm.

[@SoWavvyy]

Watch “how far does a 9mm kill part 2” watch how 9mm still expands at 400 yards. Here’s the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH6Zc4KgqKuraq8 that 9mm still expanded at 440 yards not full expansion but still expanded. At 40 yards 9mm will definitely expand more than well. Elijah Dickson.

[@Ford360CID]

@@SoWavvyy which manufacture?

[@SoWavvyy]

@@Ford360CID of the round? The same in the video federal HST

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Good comparison. Great demonstration to manifest difference. Thanks.

[@chrisbrake7219]

I am not a competetive shooter, just train to be able to defend myself & family. That being said, I choose 357 when I carry ; mag revolver & sig pistol. I feel it will take less rounds on target with them to stop any threat.

[@gilanbarona9814]

Outstanding video, as always. This reminds me of when I was a cop. I carried an old Model 10 revolver loaded with standard 38 spl 158 grain jhp rounds. A rookie looked at my gun and showed off his 357 mag, bragging at how much better his more powerful gun was. A veteran sergeant was nearby and asked the rookie one question: sure your magnum is more powerful, but if you get hit by a 38 spl bullet, will it mean that you'll be feeling better?

[@GunSam]

Thanks. Must have been awhile ago lol. Model 10 :).

[@nokoolaid]

RA Sam? Damn. I am surprised you shoot. One of my sisters has it. Thanks for the video.

[@craigcook1571]

The main difference between the 9mm And 357sig, is that 357sig is more of a one shot fight stopper. I’m not downing 9mm, but between the two I would choose .357sig. That being said, it is harder to find .357sig these days than 9mm

[@GunSam]

Yes, basically all I am saying as well. Got some people on here going crazy as if I am putting the 9mm down...if I was doing that I wouldn't own a 9mm pistol this good. I would use a Hipoint 9mm VS a great .357 Sig lol

[@albertjabberin739]

Great video, thanks. I’m sure 9mm is good enough, but man that .357 sig is smoking. I’ve been finding better deals on defensive 357 sig ammo than similar 9mm recently, including that hst, cheaper than 9mm hst if you can even find it.

[@jdk_360]

The takeaway is that federal HST is one of the best options on the market. I carry 124 standard or +p in all my 9mms.

[@bdogjr7779]

Awesome GSam《☆》Just what I needed for dinner time entertainment👍🔥Nice comparo Brother. I'll have to look at what's on the ammo shelves next time I'm at Academy Sports. I don't currently own a .357 Sig but .maybe I can get a conversion barrel for one of my current guns🖖😎☮

[@mountainhobo]

Considering you can get Gold Dot in .40 S&W for half the price of .357 Sig, the latter would be a hard sell for me.

[@GunSam]

I haven't found the Gold Dot ammo yet, but literally every .357 Sig defensive round I have purchased (More videos to come) cost less than even 9mm defensive ammo. Now with target ammo, yes you can go as low as half the cost for .40 S&W but to me this doesn't mean anything, as basically every stock .40 pistol uses the same magazine for .357 Sig ammo and you can find a .357 Sig conversion barrel for whatever your gun is for less than $200. So to me it's not a and/or situation when talking VS .40 S&W pistols and ammo.

[@markradzwion5547]

LMAO!!!!!!! Stop smoking dope. @mountainhobo

[@jonclark8155]

Good test. You do very good for someone who has rheumatoid arthritis. Your not alone with it it’s in my elbows and shoulders.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. Mine comes from having other conditions so it developed from those other conditions. Luckily the 'other' condition got the insurance to cover biologics to slow my immune response so I am glad I got that, only drawback is it keeps me at 250 lbs no matter how little I eat.

[@jonclark8155]

@@GunSam my wife has an auto immune disease. I know and understand what you’re going through. Her rheumatoid arthritis came from her disease. Mine was from blasting and painting 32 years in the shipyards. Repetitive motion….

[@MulitGunArt]

You have to tru some +p+ 9mm Ultimate Ammunition 68gr cooper solid screwdriver tip rated at 1850 from a 4in barrel. Great test as always haven’t finished watching yet but you never let us down with a test.

[@MulitGunArt]

But .357 loadings are superior to +p 9mm for sure.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I may have ran that before, but the 68 and 65 gr .357 Sig I have. Came out to 764 ft lbs energy

[@yonitidi3711]

My carry gun is a Glock 35 with a 6 inch KKM 357sig barrel. I run Underwood Leighi Defense 68 grain and it is kissing 2300fps. That is AK 47 velocity in my 24/7 go to pistol.

[@gtrmusic69]

11:43 "...little extra velocity..." (M)(V^2) and a 200 fps^2 difference a huge factor in the force delivered into a target. Yes, 200 fps by it self isn't much just looking at the numbers but it's a major difference in force dumped into a target and the kinetic energy of the bullet. Go with .357 Sig or .45 acp.

[@JohnSmith-nh9vr]

where 357sig shine is 68 and 90gr at 1680fps-2200fps and 690ft/lbs of energy. Lighter bullet is making it a rifle.

[@bpri9880]

I’ve had a Springfield Armory 4” XD chambered in .357sig for 20 years and I love that gun, it’s been perfect. I still can’t understand why .357 Sig didn’t take off in popularity, it’s just a all around better round than 9mm. And surprisingly 10mm is making a comeback. I like 10mm but I think .357 Sig is a more appropriate round for self defense than 10mm.

[@usa-rb5fi]

People started seeing 10mm and it’s uses in hunting is one of the reasons for it’s comeback.

[@davidhechler5882]

I'm with you B Pri. The reason the 357 SIG has not taken hold in law enforcement is that the ammo costs a lot more than 9 mm and police departments have to consider costs. The other reason is politically incorrect, but is true. You have a lot of female officers now and no height and weight requirements for cops, thus you have officers today who cannot shoot or hit anything and complain that their wrist hurt from recoil. Studies show that cops miss 80% of their shots in a gunfight. The 9 mm is a politically correct cartridge as it has virtually NO recoil. I would not be surprised that one day in the future the FBI will come out and say they are switching the .22 cartridge and tell us it's the best for LE. Oh, I forgot one another reason for not going to 357 SIG. The pistols wear out faster from the higher pressures from the 357 SIG. As it stands now, a department musts buy new guns about every ten years. In my day, we carried revolvers and I used revolvers that had been with the department for decades and never wore out. Give me a 357 Magnum all day long.

[@bpri9880]

@@usa-rb5fi yeah that makes sense, to me, the 10mm round is suited for self defense against back woods predators, moose and elk, bears and mountain lions.

[@bpri9880]

@@davidhechler5882 yeah I do believe you are correct with that thought. I did read about how females were having issues with recoil control with the .357 Sig, Which is weird because my wife is like 5’2” and has hands like an Asian woman and she can shoot my full sized just fine. She actually has more issues with cocking the smaller guns. Also if more people would have bought guns in .357sig then I think the ammo prices would have come down🤷🏻‍♂️

[@allenbolen9705]

The price and availability is why it’s not more popular. Great performance 👍🏻

[@Tadders]

I'm glad you're able to shoot with your RA condition

[@Moderndaycowboy74]

I appreciate your review on this. Very informative

[@bobbywesley800]

Great video. I love the 357 sig and it definitely beat the 9mm

[@oldcop18]

Based on my experience the concern w/the .357 is under the dynamics of a real world gunfight the extra recoil could cause an officer to miss more frequently. From what I see there’s not enough of a difference to make a difference, so for a city PD I’d go w/the 9MM & rural or state police the Sig round. Interesting test Sam, thanks.

[@GunSam]

What's great about the .357 Sig is it's so much less dramatic over 9mm than what .357 Magnum is over .38 Special. The .357 Sig probably has 30% more recoil from what I feel, and my guns are pretty light, so a steel gun would have the .357 Sig feeling how a 9mm does in a polymer one.

[@oldcop18]

@@GunSam OK, thx for the timely follow up.

[@SoWavvyy]

@@GunSam I agree

[@danoneill2846]

Many Thanks

[@barntapes3414]

I’ve been experimenting with .357 Sig for about 6 mos. and am impressed that my pistol seems easier to shoot with my 357 bbl than it was with the 40. I wonder how it would perform in a pistol caliber carbine…

[@64samsky]

I love the 357 Sig!

[@kellyheath6293]

Well done. 357 Sig for the win. 9 mm 124+p HST did better than I thought it would in comparison

[@buttercup8583]

Could it also be that more experienced, consistently training people tend to train more and therefore have better shot placement.

[@MAG-li5jo]

I love your videos Sam. You should have a million followers or more. You are best souce of information for handgun ammunition actual performance around. Paul Harrell and Hickok45 are great and very fun to watch, but I prefer your channel. My only request would be to bring back the Jug or Not and Bologna a bit more often. I would like to send you some ammo to test. My only concern is that I live in California and I am not sure if that is legal with Newsom in office. I will need to look into that. It would be interesting to see my carry load which I discovered thanks to you blow up some Bologna. That is the Remington UMC 357 Mag semi jacketed hollow point "notorious manstopper" round.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I did happen to do a video like that but it was with my older camera so the audio is a bit harsh. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZjRoayrq8uhj9U

[@philipfreeman72]

Good test with good expansion .

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

Excellent video! Love that gun, love both calibers. I think the stories told of .357Sig have demonstrated that it does hit harder than the best 9mm out there. People however don’t like the .357Sig’s out of control ammo price tag nor its slightly more stout recoil and rapport. If given the choice, I’d carry my .357Sig for duty use all day long, but It’s verboten with my employer. But when I retire soon, I can carry whatever I want. .357Sig will be my choice. 😊

[@GunSam]

Thanks. The ammo is one of those weird things, where if you go into a gun store they might mark it up to weird numbers like $70 for 50 FMJ's, but online you can score the ammo for about the same price as .45 ACP or .40 S&W or smaller 20 round boxes of hollow points for the same price as 9mm, and even more interestingly sometimes for less. I got all my recent defensive .357 Sig ammo for $20 a ox while 9mm was running $35 a box as many places are liquidating .357 Sig as no one is buying it.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

@@GunSam I used to buy ammo on line because it was so easy and less expensive…. Then my Governor made the practice of online ammo sales illegal. ….geeze I hate democrats. Now in my state, finding .357Sig, 10mm or .38 super is very hard to find. Online was such a nice convenience and that’s why Gavin took it away from us….. because the majority of criminals were buying ammo online. Good grief.

[@18wheelsandadozen6shooters5]

Great video, I’d love to see .357 sig vs 40 s&w. If I carry an auto I carry 40 but I do have a 357 sig barrel for my Hk

[@brutusgallicus3568]

Big difference in noise, too. My Glock 31C is uncomfortably loud to shoot outdoors without hearing protection, but it will throw my 115gr reloads at close to 1600 fps with Power Pistol. The blue flash is awesome.

[@GunSam]

Power pistol is awesome. I remember my first loads I ever did were .45 ACP "standard pressure" with a 230 gr ball at the starting charge. My Glock 41 was throwing them at like 950 FPS. I was looking for the mil-spec 850 FPS load in my 5.3" barrel so I had to underload them by like a full grain or something. Impressive powder for autos but in revolver cases it is the same as anything else, not impressive.

[@GunSam]

'first loads' with Power Pistol, not in general lol

[@timrobinson6573]

Uh Oh. Now you gotta test the 147 +P+ against 357 SIG

[@GunSam]

It might bring them closer, but still I think we would be about 100 ft lbs apart.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Thanks, another good and interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Great 40-yard shooting! Take care.

[@duaneridings6591]

The 357 Sig " DOSE " what a lot of people " THINK " the 9mm will do

[@GunSam]

That's true lol. For some weird reason people think 9mm beats everything. They don't know what velocity or energy means, they just know gansta's say '9mm' so it's cool and the more powerful

[@GunSam]

@@napalmstickylikeglue long reply for something I never said. But whatever.

[@duaneridings6591]

@@GunSam Thanks for the reply Sam As I do recognize and own different calibers with different power , I do carry EDC five wad cutters in a wheel in my pocket

[@JMR6813]

Since you have been doing small calibers recently also, can you test the new Buffalo Bore .25 acp hard cast? I'm interested to see how it does.

[@GunSam]

I don't have a .25 currently, but I been thinking of getting one.

[@JMR6813]

@@GunSam If you do, you will have a place to start with ammo. Thanks for the reply!

[@michaelsanchez8457]

It's like saying 38 sp +p is just as good as 357. If you get a heart or a head shot, both will be lethal. More 1 shot stops with the magnum round, because it hits harder. Have you ever fired full house magnum pistol in a small room, without ear pro? For better or worse, that magnum blast is shocking. I found a win load that had a nice low recoil in 9. It really shot well, subsonic, low blast. Haven't had a couple dozen ninjas attacking at night to see how well it works. It's better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war.

[@davidanderson3528]

Like the video but can you show the bullet weight before shooting and then compare it after shooting, the real world test is cool.

[@BobMarley-dk9hn]

I love your videos dude. I had no clue you had R A. I have it too unfortunately and it's not fun. Great job dude

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I hate mornings, a lot lol

[@BobMarley-dk9hn]

@@GunSam lmao you're not the only one, my friend!

[@DonTruman]

And looks like the cost of 9mm +P is about the same as .357 Sig. But a benefit of going 9mm is you can also shoot standard pressure with the same pistol, for less than 1/2 the cost.

[@GunSam]

Most .357 Sig pistols are .40 S&W conversions. I can shoot .40 S&W at half the cost. But in all seriousness, .357 Sig is like 30 bucks a 50 round box for target ammo online. There's no either or, just shoot .357 Sig with one pistol, 9mm with another.

[@louv4437]

That was one of the softest 357 sig rounds out there too

[@carpetcop6173]

I have owned and carried .357 SIG pistols in the past, but for me the 9mm just makes a lot more sense. I value having the ability to find a wide variety of loads on the shelf at pretty much any place where ammo is sold, and price is a huge difference between the two. For the handful of scenarios I can envision in which more power is needed, I’m going to upgrade by an order of magnitude instead of incrementally. Instead of looking to a .357 SIG, I’d just grab my .41 Mag with some Underwood XTP’s at 1135 lb ft of energy and have no doubts. The 9mm is fine for personal protection against people, and if you need more than that, it’s time to put away the puny little semi autos and step up to a Magnum of some variety.

[@kevinrichardson8859]

The 357sig IS the magnum of the "puny little semi autos" and it fits in a 9mm/40sw size platform and outperforms them both...so...providing equal handling characteristics id take the "magnum" (357sig) ✌

[@markstephens5120]

Unfortunately we don't have the option to say wait let me go get my bigger gun lol.

[@harrypeterson9287]

@@kevinrichardson8859 Does it really though? A decent .40 round loaded to full pressure starts out bigger and generally expands to a larger diameter while still penetrating adequately. I'd argue the Sigs crush cavity potential is less than the .40 assuming they're both loaded to full potential with bullets of comparable sectional density and design.

[@FoulPet]

That like saying instead of you grabbing your 41 you should grab a 460.

[@paulscountry456]

Nine can get pretty close in plus p plus,but in the end the Sig is more case capacity and you can get at least 200 ft lbs more in max handloads.

[@GunSam]

One of the Underwood Xtreme Defender loads gave me 780 ft lbs energy if I recall correctly, something in that range. While this might not be apples to apples I don't see any 9mm being at this level no matter what you do to it, unless it was beyond spec and in a carbine.

[@jamesmarkov9570]

The .357 Sig is more powerful. Having said that the 9mm is more versatile. A standard pressure 115 grain hollow point at 1,150 will match training ball by the same manufacturer. Bump it up past to 1,200+ feet per second like a Black Hills loads or others and you have show stopper. The Illinois police load of a 115 grain load at 1,350 feet per second is potent. As a side note 357 Sig and 40 smith both wear out guns faster than standard 9mm

[@davidlee8551]

EXCELLENT information!

[@troyspurling1910]

I love 357 Sig. I can see the difference in damage just on the backstop of my range, compared to 9mm. I would never draw the conclusion that the 2 calibers are equal

[@jamesstatton9759]

Good shooting Sam

[@black_dog_barks]

Great test and proves why Federal HST beats all brands... do not forget as those pedals are peeling back they are rotating perhaps to 1" causing massing hemorrhaging to body tissue... The final measurement is after all the damage is done. Both rounds hitting center mass would be lethal if they hit lungs or the heart.

[@markstephens5120]

I carry 357sig 124gr Underwood hp at 1475fps chronograghed over 1500fps. That's hard to beat and the recoil is about what a 9+p is.

[@Denner771]

Buffalo Bore 9mm +p+ data with a 115gr HP: ➤ 1,426 fps -- Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6-inch barrel ➤ 1,402 fps -- Beretta 92F, 4.9-inch barrel ➤ 1,389 fps -- Glock 19, 4.0-inch barrel

[@GunSam]

In my own test of that ammo I got 1,489 FPS average and 566 ft lbs energy. The problem with the load though, is it's 115 gr. Even going up to 124 gr +P+ you lose close to 100 ft lbs energy(1,316 FPS/477 FPE), and you really need at least 124 gr with that power level to perform right. With the 115 gr the bullet just exploded and the core penetrated to 11.25". With the 124 gr you are up there around 18" to 20" penetration. So while this particular +P+ load almost rivals this low end .357 Sig round, it's not even close for effectiveness as it's too light and going too fast for a 9mm bullet.

[@mmz77]

Do you notice any difference in blast or noise between the two when shooting outdoors? Thanks for all you do 😀

[@Lexicologist1971]

There is a noticeable difference in noise and light between 40 S&W and 357 Sig.

[@Fudmottin]

Either way, Federal seems to know how to make a bullet that should get the job done. By the numbers you got, the 357 Sig load was definitely in line with a 125gr 357 Magnum load. I wonder how much further the 357 Magnum can be loaded to keep ahead of the 357 Sig.

[@GunSam]

Sort of have to look at rifle barrels to get that number, and the .357 Mag is already probably 50% more powerful as is, just loses more in a handgun. I have seen both the .357 Sig and Mag hit just shy of 800 ft lbs in handguns but the case capacity makes it happen differently, like the Sig is slightly higher pressure and throws a lighter 65 gr copper bullet super fast but the .357 Mag seems to be at it's highest potential with 125 gr, as it's lower pressure and big case capacity make it less powerful going below 125 gr. Max both rounds in a rifle you might see 1,250 ft lbs in .357 Mag and maybe if I had to guess, 950 for .357 Sig, maybe...

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam I guess, on top of all that, if you want to launch heavier bullets, the magnum case gives you more options. Those 140gr Barnes copper bullets you tested a bit ago are longer than 158gr LSWCs. Also given that Remington has loaded 180gr 357 Magnum, it seems likely there are many options at that weight. I don't think you will see bullets that heavy in the Sig caliber. Although you would think that 147gr would be available. I think 357 Sig is using 0.355" bullets, not the 0.357-8" bullets used by 357 Magnum.

[@GunSam]

@@Fudmottin I have ran some Underwood 147 gr .357 Sig ammo at 1,286FPS/540 FPE. So I think the best way to sum it up is that .357 Sig loaded hot is just as powerful as .357 Mag in the 125-158 gr range, but then you're topped off while .357 Mag can go above typical power a lot further above it.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam It would be cool to see some of those tests. I honestly don't know how popular that caliber is, but I'm interested. Lucky Gunner did a rather less positive video about 357 Sig a year or so back. Gotta keep those caliber wars going! ;-)

[@ratagris21]

Good comparison Sam. Both have their purposes. If you can handle .357 SIG then use that despite being a niche round/pricey in today's market. 9mm has so many options and more accessible, but based on what you are looking for in a defensive round. 🎩♠️🎯🎱🇺🇲🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌸👊🌼🏴‍☠️🏹

[@GunSam]

Thanks. To me, the .357 Sig is more along the lines of .38 Special in the sense that you really don't just go out and buy a large frame ".38 Special" revolver, you buy a .357 Magnum revolver and have the option. I get a lot of "Dumb to go out and buy a .357 Sig pistol" as to change my mind, however I agree fully. You buy the .40 S&W pistol so you know you have the ammo lol, then if you wish you buy a .357 Sig barrel to fit your .40 S&W and have options! Surprisingly though, the .357 Sig is a lot less niche than a lot of people realize. Niche is more like .45 Super, or .327 Federal/.32 H&R where ammoseek shows you like 3 options, not 4 full pages of .357 Sig ammo!

[@53dschu]

Awesome comparison!! If you have a 9mm pistol why would you not want to spend 100$ for a conversion barrel? 357 sig by far better. Recoil? No, I personally know also the same. Back to video, thank you, was great

[@Gieszkanne]

9mm pistols dont convert to .357 only from .40 SW.

[@GunSam]

like the other commenter said, the 9mm doesn't convert. Nearly all .40 S&W pistols are just a bit bigger, plus you more or less have to have a .40 sized barrel to have it strong enough, and a .40" diameter won't fit through a 9mm slide frame hole. The better question would be why wouldn't I get a .40 S&W and ALSO get a 9mm conversion for it and be able to shoot all 3 in one gun. My reason is I acquired the 9mm first because it's what my store had, they got in a .40 a few months later so I got that one too. Also I gots a bang bang for each hand which is cooler than one :)

[@crusiethmaximuss]

Are we jus' gonna ignore the fact that 9mm+P+ once spent warp their brass so reloadin' 'em is taxin'?

[@UziRyder1]

My BS meter pegged when I heard people thought 9+p was equivalent to the .357 Sig. The 9mm didn't do bad, but a big nope on being as powerful as the .357 Sig. I'll still be carrying the 9mm though.

[@mandapalque]

398fpe vs 585fpe. How come people say they are similar? Since when numbers lie?

[@exothermal.sprocket]

There's a spectrum of adequacy of every cartridge. I'd say in this test the 9mm+p is on the lower end of that scale, and the Sig is comfortably in the middle to high end of that scale. What's the actual goal with bullets and shooting anyway? Mainly two things: Penetration and effective placement of shots. Energy numbers, velocity numbers, bullet weight..... they all play a small part, but the killing power of a bullet is the ability to RELIABLY penetrate, and when placed in the correct location, it will put a stop to a deadly threat. Every time. In hunting the same is true. Penetration and effective shot placement. I know these issues are celebrated or debated anywhere near the frequency of velocity, energy, caliber, magnumitis, flat trajectory, range. But considering the native American Indian hunted (and killed) bison with a arrow, less than 400 fps, not that much energy, not that much range, and the bison DIED, what in the world are we all chasing here? Haha I'd say the hierarchy of issues of importance are this: 1. Reliable penetration every single time, every situation, every potential barrier, and even when the target is very badly oriented. 2. Shot placement must be in the vital zone, to achieve hemorrhaging, to drop blood pressure, to render unconsciousness and a stop to the threat/animal. 3. Bullet diameter should be big enough to be EASILY ADEQUATE in achieving 1 & 2. Speed of stopping the threat is a worthwhile consideration in self defense, whether two-legged or four. Yet, dead is dead, and the difference between one effect vs. another in that is not really quantifiable. Let the reader know, I am NOT promoting shooting for the cause of death in self-defense. I am promoting shooting for the purpose of STOPPING THE THREAT. However in hunting, I am very much promoting the ethical, swift, effective, reliable death of a game animal.

[@ryanswinney5026]

@@bobjones-bt9bh he clearly states it matters some but the way he mentions it and what he said as a whole is absolutely true what stops a threat when it comes to handguns is having a bullet penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs to cause blood loss and loss of blood pressure too many ppl get caught up in energy numbers

[@nickinge617]

Great video, thank you.

[@turdferguson5300]

There seems to be more difference in ammo pricing than in performance which suppressed me. My carry is a Sig P365 w/ Underwood +P Xtreme Defender ammo. I thought the 357 Sig would far out preform the +P rounds. I'm more satisfied with my 9mm after watching your video. Thank you

[@texasbeast239]

.357 and 10mm are just a little bit better. They're not lightyears ahead. But if you want the very best in an EDC gun...

[@turdferguson5300]

@@bobjones-bt9bh It's better to take whatever velocity I get than none at all. I can't fit a 12 gauge in my pocket which is what I prefer. My small hometown pistol was a .380 LCP but I've moved up to a P365. I carry a Glock 27 in the larger cities. No concealable pistol is going to be perfect but carry something.

[@harrypeterson9287]

Just to play Devil's advocate. A lot of .357 Sig is watered down while only a few manufacturers load it close to full potential. Depending on ammo choice the 9mm really is just as powerful or disappointingly close. Critical Duty being a good example of the latter. 135gr 9mm+P at 1,120 over my chronograph as opposed to 1,205 for the Sig, 75fps more is all you get!

[@joelclark2130]

Love the video, would like to see the same test. With the same ammo. With both being compact type guns CCW. PS the more I see the 357 Sig. The more I like it. Do you have any recommendations on a concealed carry weapon in 357 Sig compact size

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I don't know a whole lot about .357 Sig options to be honest, but what I do know is nearly all .40's can be converted with a barrel swap. Personally I might look into what .40's you might like, then see if conversion barrels are made with KKM being the best. I know Glock makes a smaller .357 Sig pistol but that's all I know.

[@joelclark2130]

First of all thank you for replying, yes I remember in one of your other videos about you saying you could buy a conversion. From 40 cal to 357 Sig. 40 is my everyday carry now. But a small bottle neck cartridges is really intriguing. Especially with the performance.

[@TooManyChoices1]

@Gun Sam_Revolver Aficionado_ Great video as usual. Any chance you’d be interested in testing these rounds at 25yrd through your same set up? I’d love to see the difference in penetration through MDF as 9mm is dropping like 50fps in the first 25yards and thus losing power from 396ish ft-lbs to 350 or so, and even more so with all the “micro 9mm” that are the current fad.

[@GunSam]

I get a lot of comments to shoot ammo from distance, but i'm not sure how well I could even hit the block. Might be easier to calculate the difference and use my 4" or 3" pistol (if the velocity is right) at normal distance to simulate it.

[@onpsxmember]

@@GunSam That's not the same. A foldable polymer workbench or a post with small sandbag should do the trick. You're a good shot. I'd love to see this with .45 ACP offerings. If there are options of a lightweight table with seat that is easy to transport, I'm sure given the option via patreon it'd be covered.

[@davidh9659]

Dunno, those 9mm +P HST's were a bit slow. Out of my PPQ they come out at just about 1280-ish fps, ocassionally one will be above 1300.

[@GunSam]

I have ran them several times in different lot numbers in this pistol and got different results, I have gotten averages like 1,202 FPS here, another test 1,237 FPS and yet another at 1,252 FPS. But what is interesting is other brands in my 5" barrel, 124gr +P will often achieve more. Speer Gold Dot 124 gr+P I got 1,285 FPS average, Winchester Defender 124 gr+P 1,266 FPS average, Hornady Critical Duty 124 gr+P 1,200 FPS average, Winchester USA ready 124 gr+P 1,293 FPS average. Underwood 124 gr +P+ gives me 1,342 FPS :)

[@chrisgabbert658]

I like the 357sig 👍😊

[@dariodicarlo8745]

.45 +p has more comparable performance to most .357 sig but 9mm +p has more comparable performance to a good standard pressure .45 loading such as a federal punch round

[@jamiemitchell9733]

Some of these .357 Sig offerings are close to or right at 600 ftlbs and that's just not something 9mm can do. I have both a 9mm and .357 Sig conversion for my Glock 22 so I don't see a downside anywhere.

[@GunSam]

I have gotten 746 ft lbs with the Underwood Xtreme Defender. The typical JHP ammo I have gotten 635 ft lbs with one, the rest are generally 550-600

[@MVEZombie]

Solid content. Worth a sub.

[@GunSam]

thanks

[@richki.24]

Yay for 357Sig !!!!!!!

[@MrZonacat1]

For me, faster is better. II would pick the 357 Sig.

[@PlayingWithFireOutdoors]

but the Sig is also better at punching through BA

[@tinopacino9400]

Most of the recoil comes from the Weight of the Bullet!

[@828enigma6]

Numbers not withstanding. Notice how much the 357 Sig shot displaced the gel block upward, compared to the 9mm +P. 357 Sig is a real stomper.