A Needlessly In-Depth Analysis of Dark Disney Openings

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[@savagebooks7482]

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[@zionleach3001]

Can you do a video on how to make urban/contemporary fantasy not campy? I'm a fan of Hellboy, Trese, and Darksiders. But I'm worried that if I'm not constantly lamp shading like Marvel. My story will be seen as taking itself too seriously.

[@AndreNitroX]

Amazing video. I believe hunchback deserves it own study

[@A2forty]

Just getting reminded of up beginnings made me tear up

[@kupotenshi]

The idea that the Heart of Te Fiti was literally keeping Grandma Tala alive beyond when she would have originally died is blowing my mind. That's canon to me now, I hope that's what the director intended because it's genius.

[@soccerandtrack10]

Or is it english headcanon?, because england went to war with everyone.

[@Zeno11Salazar]

I mean... how else would it explain why she became so unwell so fast? Actually... there is a possibility that it was the other way. But the Heart of Tefiti carries a lot of weight in that sense.

[@Cage66666]

I assumed that moanas dad throwing the heart was a insult to the heart and in punishment it killed his mother

[@andreasmeelie1889]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@aethelwyrnblack4918]

The opening prologue of LOTR, but the one ring is the heart of Te Fiti

[@rw8160]

Man, I've been thinking for a while now how Moana's grandma would make a way more fascinating protagonist. I know why Disney didn't do it, because they needed a cute new princess to market, but the themes of motherhood, sacrifice, and forgiveness would fit her way better! And I feel like her and Maui would have a more interesting dynamic.

[@KrapTacu1ar]

Moana and g'ma shoulda have gone on the journey together, and g'ma makes the sacrifice at the 11th hour to save the day.

[@r.achel044]

pixar proved old people can be protagonists with Up

[@joshuagonzalez4183]

@R_W exactly!

[@joshuagonzalez4183]

@@r.achel044 👍🏻

[@CompSomAnichi]

YO YES, MAUI AND THIS OLD GRANDMA ON AN ADVENTURE MANNNN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY FUN!

[@jacqueshardin4601]

I liked Moana fine enough when it came out, but I always felt like something was off. Everything you said makes sense. Plus, the Realm of Monsters in my opinion was a missed opportunity. Even the crab felt like he had little connection to Moana and Maui. Yet he has a villain song instead of the primary antagonist, Te Kā.

[@eileensnow6153]

Nah I’m glad Te Kā didn’t have a song, she was terrifying and a song would’ve made her more palatable

[@jacqueshardin4601]

@@eileensnow6153 That is OK. What I meant is that the film had moments of darkness like Te Kā, the Realm of Monsters, and the coconut pirates, but felt out of place with the more light-hearted parts of the film.

[@eileensnow6153]

@@jacqueshardin4601 Ah very true. I’d argue that even the Kakamora (not sure on the spelling there) were less of a threat than a brief obstacle

[@tanepukenga1421]

@@jacqueshardin4601 That's partly to do with the source material. Polynesian mythology is quite... adult in nature. Like with Maui's death or his siblings not accepting him or even his hook, which were originally his grandmother's repurposed jawbone.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@tanepukenga1421 the original Cinderella was also grim

[@Little1Cave]

Encanto also did its dark opening very well, so much so that it comes back in the climax of the film during the Dos Oruguitas number. EVERYTHING in the movie is tied to what happened to Alma at that river.

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

A plot based on the events of one day reminds me of what happened at the well of ascension (don't look it up unless you've read mistborn)

[@noahjeffery5670]

@@zaidlacksalastname4905 that's got me stoked literally just finished mistborn yesterday can't wait for the well of Ascension

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

@@noahjeffery5670 youre gonna love it. I definitely did (finished it a couple weeks ago). Pretty sure i read the last book in 3 or so days because i was so engaged. WOA is a bit slow, but its incredible. You're gonna have a good time.

[@noahjeffery5670]

@@zaidlacksalastname4905 start was a bit slow but yeah i can feel it picking up so excited. Have a great day

[@spritvio639]

Basically, Moana's cause and effect isn't as strong as the other films. Where movies like Finding Nemo build their movie up from their dark openings and set the tone for the entire movie. Moana feels disjointed, giving the beginning a completely different vibe from the rest of the movie.

[@bretthake7713]

Is this really a "needlessly in depth" analysis or is this actually a "perfect amount of depth" analysis

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

I'll take too deep over shallow any day of the week

[@annamiau8116]

@@zaidlacksalastname4905 thats what she said

[@joshuaclancy8093]

Agreed! Perhaps another storyline of the island slowly decaying and her father finally overcoming his fear to come meet Moana for the final battle. He could be the decoy that allows her past the volcano god... you could even have him die if you want to get real dark about it.

[@methos-ey9nf]

It's funny how both you and Schaffrillas have discussed the weaknesses of Moana while emphasizing how you love it anyway. I think this is where CinemaWins provides a great service as a counterweight.

[@AndreNitroX]

In my opinion the best and darkest Disney opening is Atlantis. In a matter of minutes we see a cataclysmic event takes place that wipes out an entire culture and race, save for one city of an entire continent. This affects the survivors, because they have lost their culture, identity and history, all because of their machinations and desires for power.

[@BouncingTribbles]

You know a movie is powerful when, even though you've seen it a dozen times, just describing the first half hour can bring you to tears. Moana is SO good

[@remylebae3395]

Not really. It's just feel-good. There's a difference

[@BAVy11037]

I thought you were talking about Up lol

[@MossMothMyBeloved]

@Cincoat She needed Maui for wayfinding...

[@lilac3266]

they bring me to tears very quickly. I remember seeing moana in the cinemas tearing up at the ripe age of 12. Flash forward to the first 20 mins of encanto absolutely ruining me

[@alteregobruh]

@@MossMothMyBeloved She needed SOMEONE for wayfinding. Anyone who knew where she needed to go. Any mortal could do it just fine, if they knew where it was. There’s next to no reason, to me at least, that Moana needs Maui after he clearly shows he only wants his stick-thing. He very clearly does not want to help and is not going to cooperate. Seems like a lot of it is ONE of them whining, but that may just be my poor memory of the movie. It wasn’t a bad movie but I’d never choose to put it on. It wasn’t entertaining to me and the characters had okay, but not good enough, chemistry. Or maybe I just dislike Maui too much, I don’t know. Whatever. It’s always been a 4/10 for me.

[@ryancampbell7003]

Great Mouse Detective has Disney’s darkest opening…and second act…and climax. All around nightmare fuel.

[@Aardydarling]

This was one of my favorites when I was younger

[@therwbyfamilton8023]

And Then there’s Atlantis. A flood destroying a civilization and it’s people. That one, prince of egypt, and Hunchback are the ones that come to mind for most dark opening

[@LaneMaxfield]

I have never gotten the sense that Moana was missing anything: in fact, I felt like it stands out in contrast to those three films, because it is willing to be more honest about real life. Those other films felt determined to fit a "protagonist was wrong but they learned a lesson" paradigm that is good sometimes, but is also not how real life works about 80% of the time. Mostly there is not just one wrong answer, and a simple answer that comes from that lesson. There are a series of lessons, and what may be a wrong answer to one lesson can be a right answer to another. Similarly, we are not one sole identity: we are a series of identities that evolve. Life is not a multiple choice quiz, but a balancing act between conflicting priorities, and taking effective control of our life is about knowing how to pivot from one mode to another. Moana is set up to crave an ocean voyaging adventure, but there is a problem: she is not ready for it. She is too young, and she needs to learn the responsibilities of the island. She needs to keep her hunger for adventure alive, yes, but she also needs to learn to be a practical problem-solver in the moment, and she cannot learn that by constantly daydreaming about a chosen destiny she is not ready for. So she makes the difficult choice to set her dream aside. Then, when the proof of the danger arrives at the island, and she is old enough to try, she is willing to do what she needs to do, even if her father doesn't understand it. The point of Moana's father is that, while she failed trying to leave once, and then kept trying, he failed once, and let his guilt consume him. He is a foil to show what happens when you let a single lesson dominate your life, even when life starts to show you evidence that this lesson no longer applies to your current situation. Moana learns that he is wrong, and makes a second difficult choice: to leave her island, saving it even if she has to do it alone. Her relationship is built around Maui because he is the foil who can teach her the next lesson. Just as her father represented the extreme of staying home, Maui represents the extreme of reckless adventuring. He is stuck in the lesson that he only has value if he is going off to accomplish some cool adventure, and he never stops to think about the consequences. As a result, he curses the world, and when he is no longer getting that reward of adulation, he gives up on his responsibilities. From Maui's failures, Moana learns that it isn't about a series of cool adventures or accomplishments. It is about sticking to your adventure when it is difficult. (spoilers below!) In the end, Moana has learned to see clearly what each situation requires. This is why, when she finds that Te Fiti is gone, she does not give up. For years, she has paused, taken a look at the current situation, and adapted. This is how she is able to look back at Te Ka, and realize this is the corrupted form of Te Fiti. She approaches an enemy as a friend in need of healing, because she has transcended that binary hero/villain right choice/wrong choice dichotomy. If we all had to write every story as a "hero learns a lesson to find their identity" story, stories like this can not exist. That's a problem, because the real world works like this more often than not.

[@TheSensei88]

Not even going to watch the video, love Moana, just came to see a comment like this one. Now I'm gone, in bliss(?

[@LaneMaxfield]

@@TheSensei88 I'm... glad? But also, Savage Books is genuinely fire and his videos are well worth watching. Even the ones I disagree with always make some interesting points that I learn from, including this one.

[@TheSensei88]

@@LaneMaxfield yeh I know, I'm suscribed

[@LaneMaxfield]

@@TheSensei88 ok, cool. :-D I was worried I'd accidentally fed a troll. It's nice to see people being reasonable and nuanced on the internet for a change

[@johngomez2138]

Love the "sorry Schafrillas" drop, great vid sir!

[@iainronald4217]

Kind of on topic speaking of darkness, I saw Hunchback when I was little kid during an assembly but as an adult, I don't really remember it. So, a few years ago, I looked up the IMDb page for the movie and saw top billing went to Jason Alexander. That's cool, growing up watching Seinfeld, I always felt there was underpinned darkness to George Castanza, how he felt about his place in the group. So, he could bring that darkness/resentment to Quasimodo and use his ample acting chops to really give the character some dimension and pathos. Then, I watched the movie again and found out he's a comic relief character whose entire appearance boils down to "I'm losing to a bird!"

[@middenway]

I love Moana. It was the first Disney animated film to remain a musical during the central conflict of the ending. Others have music before and after this moment, but not during. It was so satisfying to finally see Disney push through this wall. On another note, it's very easy to see it as a story in which Moana is the chosen one-only she can restore the heart-but I rather think it's a story where she is only A chosen one. I think there have been others before her, but they have all turned back at different points in their journey. And I think Tala was one of those chosen ones, which is why she immediately recognises the heart and it's importance, and it adds beautifully to the moment when Moana is about to give up and Tala’s spirit supports her.

[@sillau9]

Agreed

[@scroletyper8286]

Anyone else think it's funny that finding Nemo's dark opening was predictable once they told us how many lids they were having? No way they were naming that many characters for one movie.

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

It could have been if it came out in today's internet era when we know everything about the premise of a movie months before it releases. But back then, we didn't expect it. It was a big surprise.

[@zoeb3573]

I... I never even thought about the idea that the Heart might be what's keeping the grandmother alive, and that giving it away was why she died. I always thought her death was weirdly well-timed (or badly-timed, I guess). That makes so much more sense. Holy shit.

[@Ronin11111111]

The "sorry Schafrillas" f***ing sent me XD.

[@dfolz1101]

"The twisted machinations of the pixar writing team" is one of the most top tier statements of all time 😂😂😂

[@krose6451]

... and now I understand why this movie didn't land right for me despite some amazing tunes, characters, and visuals. Thank you.

[@wilczus222]

This is exactly why i'm subbed to your channel - you give the viewers new appreciation and understanding of movies! I completely missed the true meaning of grandma giving away the heart.

[@remylebae3395]

Nah, that part was just a stretch

[@melindawolfUS]

I don't think sad is the same as dark. I think dark stories need to include some abuse, harm to self or others, nialism, hopelessness, fear and other traumas. In that way, I don't think Moana's grandmother's death is dark (and I'm not sure why you think her giving up the heart is what kills her- I don't remember that being implied). She dying at home with family, she's not murdered or lost in a terrible accident. She's not even suffering as she dies, Grandma's illness is natural and she's not upset about it. Scar is eaten alive by the hyenas = dark. Princess and the frog, when the glow bug is squished= dark. Finding Nemo the murder of mother and babies = yes, totally dark. In UP we mourn the death of Ellie because we've seen her whole life and we feel sadness she didn't achieve her goals. Up and Moana have sad moments, but a great trauma has not happened to the protagonist. They've just each lost a loved one to natural causes. That said, I do feel like Moana is disjointed. What does the crab have to do with either character arch -nothing that I can see. The coconut tribe didn't teach either adventurer anything, either -just provided a funny action sequence. The realm of monsters is uneventful and we hardly get to look around it. It would have been a stronger story if Maui had a stronger connection to her tribe/island. That her people or ancestors somehow supported him and her breaking tradition to leave the island and right the wrongs Maui did would feel more personal. I also like your idea of including the island in the arch, that they don't just overnight change their collective minds off screen would have again strengthened the story a great deal. I'm thinking this might have made a better book since Moana's journey is so internal, more of her thoughts would have enriched the experience.

[@XiaoFury]

Glad you explained the difference between sad and dark. I feel like the dark title is often exaggerated for clicks.

[@lunicornart]

I know this is an old comment, but it was just so well written I have to commend you! You perfectly summed up all my feelings on this film.

[@L3onking]

Well this makes "You're welcome" a far more narratively relevant song

[@AriyaLauna]

Maybe if there was a full perspective switch? This same story seen through the eyes of Maui could be potentially fairly dark and intriguing. I'm convinced the heart of also kept Moana alive once she had it - there's no way she would have survived this journey otherwise, and I think there's a lot of good subtext around that to be factual as well. The storm, the island for the demigod, the fact she could see ghosts once she tossed it, the fact she could swim to the bottom of the ocean (presumably on its power?), the fact she followed Maui to get his hook... The movie plays it off as fun and maybe the ocean helping, but early in the film we she how hurt she became and it's shown over and again how the ocean doesn't seem to be particularly helpful except maybe for its own amusement (annoying Maui at the top of this) most of the time. This is one movie I'd LOVE to see a PG-13 book or movie adaptation for, as long as it's given the same serious thought and care as the original. I think the dark beginning is definitely suggested through the movie - and I actually really love the take that the father is not pushing his hurt onto his daughter but is rather quite careful that it doesn't affect her while she's alone. However, there could certainly be more looks into the perspectives of the other islanders and more conflict to show Grandma and Moana were not the only ones (or maybe the disconnect that shows why the others are either in denial or too fearful to do anything).

[@lillydevil2486]

the big thing i find it difficult to stomach when watching media is 'oh, we just had this uber sad dead/sacrifice scene with a character' but then when the hero is done hero-ing, they find that person they and the readers mourned and understood to be dead just... back alive. that happened in a seemingly perfect, uber-dark series that i love and it immediately made it sub-par (for that last book of a trilogy) for me imo. that, and the needless adding in heartfelt character details and then killing off said character immediately after (which also happened in the last book of a trilogy.) i can't tell if no one knows how to end a trilogy of if these authors just failed so hard it made me almost not want to reread their stuff XD

[@TheCusita93]

I've heard the criticism that The Hunchback of Notre Dame while being a dark film, has deaf tone moments with the occasional comedic bit by Hugo, the gargoyle. Some say that it feels out of place in the overall film. I love the movie, it's one of my favorites, but I can see where they're coming from. The film deals with serious themes of infanticide, religion, persecution, carnal desires and even torture, themes that are strong for children to even understand. I think Disney has always toyed with the thin line between adult and children themes in interesting and clever ways.

[@catandrobbyflores]

I mean they could have always gone with the actual ending where ezmerelda gets hung. Disney managed to toe the line perfectly with that movie and the comedy managed to give a small break from how dark it got.

[@anticarrrot]

Um... How long exactly did the old lady have the mcguffin jewel? If it's a short time, it hasn't been keeping her alive for very long, and giving it up probably didn't kill her. If it's a long time, she has been sticking her head in the sand and living on an island paradise, and she coudl have gone on the journey herself when she was much younger So which one is it?

[@tanepukenga1421]

After Moana was born, there was that whole scene with the shells, showing the ocean essentially trying to give the heart to toddler Moana. So it'd be after that, and the kid is roughly 14 to 16? So about a decade or so. By that time she'd have been what? Late 40's early 50's?

[@CherryDad]

Your narration is so powerful, I goddamn cried at points in this video. Fuck.

[@powerofanime1]

Hunchback's intro infuriated me when I first watched it (as it was intended to! The movie is amazing!) But Up's is the one that made me sob like little baby. Thank you for reminding me that Moana can match them when it tries.

[@KM-oy2dw]

I've always LIKED Moana but I never LOVED Moana and I couldn't understand why. Seeing as I *love* The Hunchback of Notredame and Finding Nemo, it makes sense now.

[@cthellis]

Take that, Schafrillas!

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

I liked the dark opening to Hunchback.

[@grimtheghastly8878]

What if instead of Moana's father's tragic backstory and trauma going unaddressed Disney decided to do something absolutely devastating and have it be implied that after realizing that she left Moana's father decided that he wasn't going to let his survivor's guilt get in the way of his love for his daughter and his concern for her safety as his daughter, so he breaks his own rule and sets sail to find her only to have never come home. When Moana returns her mother is both overjoyed and anguished. When her daughter asked where her father is she gives her a look, and Moana understands. The two women weep together

[@yay29823]

I wish this happened in the movie

[@asterya6913]

I like it but.....that's too dark for a Disney movie. Because it would ruin the happy ending since it's kind of a tragic irony.

[@karolchruzik1919]

Pretty much every big genre from old western throu many flavors of horror to superhero movies eventually rots when it stagnates too much. When the distinct cliches and kinks of the genre become obligatory, its only a matter of time before they become mundane, devoid of passion and then start getting mishandled. I'm suprised disney formula is only now starting to stumble ever so slightly.

[@geek2thextreme]

i think that the story of a girl breaking tradition to become a brave new thing informed by lost traditions and familial support is a very islander story and that disney had the adventure they wanted to make mostly planned out but used their islander brain trust to come up with the motivation

[@methos-ey9nf]

The beginning of Up just demolished me, and is the primary reason I have not re-watched it. Other movies have dark openings, but Up just felt a little too close to home.

[@boniboni4912]

Same I really just watched that movie once and that was enough hahahaha

[@SaltpeterTaffy]

I couldn't call the intro of Up dark. It depicts a full life. Most of what's shown that could happen to you are the good parts. The rest _will_ happen to you.

[@person3961]

this is actually an excellent rundown of the importance of your plot serving and informing the character arcs! really clear and thorough explanations!

[@Nyyre]

Obsessed with your content. Teaching a new generation of writers with amazing narrative analysis. Can’t wait to see the stories that emerge from widespread access to breakdowns like yours

[@AndreNitroX]

Let’s hope

[@Kahtisemo]

One of my big pet peeves with that first act is we see the build up and breaking down of the relationship between Moana and her father, but about the time they start fighting, we get his backstory second hand. I know her mom didn't have many lines to begin with but it seems odd to have it be like "you have to forgive him, he's got issues" being explained rather than giving them a bit of a chance to reconnect. She's supposed to be doing all this for her family, but her running away while her grandmother is dying and her dad not getting any closure before she leaves and no resolution when she comes back (I mean, we assume they did because everything is suddenly good now at the end?) but I feel like he should have been the one to explain. Instead of her running after he was yelling at her, it should have been a sudden moment of clarity for her why he's so determined. Maybe when they were fighting he could have had something slip and when she just stops arguing and asks him what he meant, they could have taken a moment to cool down and have him tell her how he understands. Because he was just like her at that age, he tried to head out into the world, and because he was reckless about it his friend got killed. Heck he almost got killed. And to him this isn't something to risk her life over. So then she has this pulling from both sides with dad saying stay, but ow with more understanding than him just being controlling and scared, and grandma saying to go, by having faith and courage. And when her grandmother is dying, this is a moment the family NEEDS her because it's going through tragedy but instead she hears the faint whisper of "go" and decided to anyway. Not because grandma's death is serving as a distraction from anyone stopping her, but because this is something she can't ignore and having already had that talk with her dad, he's not going to stop her this time. He gave his reasons, she's made her choice.

[@paulinabringas98]

Saying that the grandma comes back to life when it’s convenient is so short sighted 😭 I’m not well versed in Polynesian culture, but from my very Mexican and personal point of view: her grandmother guiding her even after death is part of her identity, she carries her within her at all times through everything she taught her, everything she passed down, everything she loved and through nature itself. Her ancesters live on both through her and through the world they once inhabited because we are one with it forever.

[@catandrobbyflores]

I don't think her giving up the heart is what killed her. it was just old age. my grandma died from Alzheimer's and I wish she could have gone like her, surrounded by family and could still remember them. when the fire went out and the spirit ray swam out I was crying in the theater because it was sad true but also we see moana's grandmother get the form she hoped she would.

[@pizzapower3166]

Moana is too afraid of being like Hunchback, Beauty And The Beast, and Pinocchio. I'm probably missing one(The Black Cauldron).

[@KyleRDent]

At least it didn't end the way Maui's real legend ends...

[@deSloleye]

Definitely wouldn't be a children's movie if it did

[@tanepukenga1421]

CHOMP

[@aisnota5192]

"Nobody knows where Maui is..... there's also a big fucking arrow in the sky that tells you his location."

[@BouncingTribbles]

I disagree that Moanna doesn't follow the same pattern. It feels like you down played how intense it can be to go against a family like this. Her journey is about making decisions on her own and becoming a whole person. Sure her grandmother is there to help her get the courage to leave, but there is always a feeling with that kind of loving control "what if they don't let me come back?" Cults don't let you back in. You can see it in the speech she gives Maui the first time they meet, she's all rote and routine. She's a cheiftans daughter and has been taught proper ceremony, so she probably practiced that speech a thousand times. She has been taught not to trust herself, and her journey is about figuring out she does have worthwhile ideas. As someone with a bit of helicopter in their parents it was very personal to me. So I fully disagree, every moment of her journey is defined by her relationship to her family, and thus to the intro

[@beanny39]

I think the problem with the cult angle has to do with how only the chief aggressively believes in not leaving the island. When she speaks about the heart at the meeting only her dad gets angry. Everyone else is just confused. Then, later in the scene, the dad stops being angry when his focus is drawn away by family. I do agree about the connection though. She only has to find herself beyond the reef because she couldn't be her true self on the island. I feel like it lost the gut punch by bringing back the grandma in spirit form. A lot of the impact of death is taken away when downsides only apply sometimes.

[@veronicachandler1314]

I think the video points out the blindspot of what can happen when all the characters have the same personality. Moana, her father, and her grandmother are the only ones on the island who seem to have an opinion, the rest of the characters are window dressing. I don't think Moana did a good job in showing the familial/social pressure, not in the same way other movies like Mulan (where familial/societal pressure is in every song, every character etc.) and Encanto (where the movie constantly shows how Abuela's pressure on the family is making everyone miserable). And there are direct and dangerous consequences for going against the pressure ie. Mulan abandoned on the top of a mountain and Mirabel being humiliated and yelled at in front of her whole family. Moana didn't bring in that scary consequence that would really push the movie over the edge. The movie was good, but it didn't have that heart dropping, 'oh my gosh the character is about to get in huge trouble' moment. I mean the movie had a whole village to work with and they're all on the same page in a drug filled haze of happiness? Only one person wants to go? It makes me wish they had shown characters who were Moana's age who parroted her Dad's opinion. It would have set Moana even further apart in a realistic way AND the movie would have had even more tension.

[@Storymaker1316]

11:26 what if grandma had been trying ti par it on to the father, he had the same wanderlust that she did. Maybe some of the dad guilt comes from how he Was pushed along by his mother and it was there wishes, not his friends and that killed him

[@Cookie12670]

Always great to get a notification that you posted something. You keep on making awesome videos and I just wanted to say Thank You!

[@kasim7509]

Wished that you added Encanto to this as well since its quite closer to Moana but done infinitely better with the generational trauma and how the expectations from family hold you down and might even ruin your life. Every single character was going through it in their own way there

[@DJHansYolo]

This is seriously good work. I appreciate your videos so much. They have contributed significantly to my enjoyment of (and understanding my disappointment with) film and TV shows. Thank you!

[@delfinal7560]

You are making actually a good point. Incredible video.

[@jaamaapii]

I was very underwhelmed when I first saw the movie. It was nice. I liked the songs. But it felt incoherent. All my friends really liked it, so i thought it just was not quite my cup of tea. Happens. But then I listend to the cut songs. They give you a different vibe to the story. I listend to them so much that I forgot that "More" is not part of the actual soundtrack.

[@TheAngryLibrarian]

I'm late, but I really appreciate this video! Not only did it introduce a new perspective on some movies I like, but I think it's pretty important advice for my current project, which is a story that has a character begin a journey motivated by trauma and darkness. Thank you!

[@riodelizo9120]

I think what they want to portray is both MOANA and TI FITI is in teh quest to discover themselves,

[@asterya6913]

As someone with Oceanian heritage. Moana was the first time I saw stylized people like me and my culture being talked about. So in this front the feeling of watching it is quite special. And I agree, I liked it and it felt slightly familiar. But I felt it could be so much more. There is so much more to do with Oceanian culture and so many subjects to tackle related to tradition and family dynamic that I felt Moana could have touched upon. Ex : - Due to colonization, a huge and for some group a majority. Of Oceanian culture was lost and to this day building your identity when the majority of your history is, well, gone. Isn't a walk in the park. Moana could have explored that a bit with showing how the islander felt about not knowing much anymore about sailing or if they even remembered the exploits of their ancestors. And Moana relearning that and teaching it again could have been a very touching moment that would have gone right through the heart of many Oceanian. - The conflict with family and tradition is very real for most islander. But where the movie fail (for me. That's only my experience. Not all Oceanian will have the same) is that the extended family is absent and that you can't really feel the community dynamic. To keep it short. It should all be closer to Encanto with Moana having many cousins and aunts and having the neighbors chime in. And the movie really showing how their opinions + the one of her parent. Shape her, like she could only feel safe admitting her wish to travel to a close cousin because she know the adults will likely side with her father. Or have some uncle and aunt tell her about her father past and his reason. With her mother acting as a sort of mediator between them. Islander extended family tend to be much more involved. They don't need to be major characters but having them would have added a lot of things to make the family drama work. - They really should have focused on one Oceanian culture. Because the movie is a bit of a mix mash. Now all of them do have some similarity but Moana taking from every of them (although I could see some more explicit influence from Tonga concerning the dress) the way the movie did just made it impossible to go deeper with them all. It felt a bit surface level on that side. Sure Maui is a common figure in Oceanian mythology. But all of them have specific story about him and a way to treat him that will be different. You feel what I mean ?

[@sasusakufangirl]

This was a very interesting video that made me think very differently about some of my favourite Disney movies (in a good way of course ;)), and no joke, I started crying when you talked about how Ellie's message about Carl having to go on a new adventure about the 15 minutes mark - I don't cry easily so I'm quite impressed that your video managed to make me touched enough to pour water out of my eyes - consider it a compliment to your skills as a moviemaker, I guess? (^-^'')

[@munromister777]

I think a good comparison to Moana is Aladdin. Both Moana and Aladdin had a good amount of comedy all throughout to balance the dark elements, and are about self-discovery and figuring out a character's self-worth, but in terms of following through with what the opening or character set ups, Aladdin addresses it more and incorporates it into the narrative more than Moana does. Aladdin dealing with his own self-worth is the central issue of the movie, and it's solved when he embraces his own skills and denies the easy happy ending for being a good person to help his friend.

[@joshuagonzalez4183]

well good to know

[@jeremy1860]

I'm glad that, even in the face of recent hits like Encanto, a great film like Moana is still being talked about 😊

[@zachausler-rawle3773]

fantastic video, deserves more love

[@markskrzyniarz3074]

Savage Books, you should do a video on HBO's Deadwood - there's so much there that you could do a video about. The evolution of Al Swearengen as a character from villain to antihero. Themes of law and order and how they can conflict with each other. How a community is built by common purposes, experiences and even conflicts. How the show addresses the stereotypes of the Western genre. Or just simply pick a scene and analyze the labyrinthine Shakespearean dialogue. If you haven't seen Deadwood yet, you're missing out.

[@mariacargille1396]

Subscribed! I really enjoyed how well thought out and clearly presented this was. On to the backlog! :D

[@earnestbrown6524]

So does Atlantis the Lost Empire uses its dark Empire ending mother killing opening?

[@5kyb0rn]

Man I wish you would do a video or two about The Last of Us Part 1 & Part 2. These two games have been the most impactful experiences of my life and I would love to learn more about them. Your videos have taught me things I didn't know about things I have loved. So I would love to learn more about the stories and characters I love so much in games as well. Thanks man. You rock.

[@boniboni4912]

Hell yes, I mean those video games aren’t as impactful for me, but I thoroughly would enjoy a video on them!!! I really didn’t like part 2, the story felt really disjointed and I think they could had been executed better

[@user-dv4hv7zx9k]

Will you be doing a literary dive/analysis on "Cyberpunk: Edgerunners"?

[@benhickson6149]

Im glad you explored this, I thought that moana was a weaker movie than other Disney movies but could think what it was. Though she has a bit of plot armour with the water

[@EliasThundertempest]

2:00 yo dude that's very good Italian! Pronunciation's really clear and understandable for someone who's still learning, keep it up dude!

[@Cometstarlight]

Dude, I’m not even kidding, when Moana’s grandmother had an episode and was dying, I thought she was joking and just pulling it as a distraction for Moana to leave. I was fully out laughing until all the torches went out and there manta showed up.

[@alinageorge2681]

Thank you for explaining the heart of Te Fiti keeping Mama Tala alive! I thought it was a random thing to move the plot along 😅 I wish these kinds of details were given more attention, I think it would have made the story smoother

[@eosofspades_357]

i LOVE the theory that the heart of te fiti was keeping grandma tala alive. i think the heart being not JUST the source of creating life but also something that, when possessed, GRANTS eternal life, makes a LOT of sense and also fills some gaps in the story. we are constantly told that the heart is this massively powerful item that allows one to create life itself, but we never see this happen on screen except for when it is with te fiti herself. in fact, we never see the heart have real, tangible power in ANY capacity. UNLESS "eternal life" IS a subtextual power that it has! THAT would very clearly explain why everyone wanted it, why grandma tala died nearly IMMEDIATELY after giving it up, and why moana on her journey was able to survive all sorts of things that she probably shouldn't have, like traveling into the realm of monsters.

[@Marz1200]

Great analysis, as always. I would love to see you do a video on Sandman.

[@rbush88]

Like with so many of your videos, I was ready to disagree with you based on the video's title 😅but 20 minutes later I am completely convinced by your arguments! You present your ideas so well and thoughtfully they're always a joy to watch. Thank you for sharing them

[@PaulLembo]

The stone keeping her alive? Nope. Old people die, often suddenly and seemingly randomly. As the title says, this is overthinking.

[@1993digifan]

In HoND, the parents weren't trying the leave the city, they were entering the city. Didn't you hear the part where the boat driver said "Four guilders for safe passage into Paris"?

[@Nemo-Nihil]

Now I FUCKING LOVE Moana. One of my top three Disney Heroines (Mulan and Pocahontas being the other two). However, after watching this, I would have loved to seen a darker film against truly colorful and scintillating scenic beauty of Oceania/Polynesia.

[@KaminoKatie]

Does Bionicle count?

[@jjstarA113]

I think this video explains, in a way I never could articulate, why Moana never fully clicked with me like other Disney classics.

[@CJ-ln5ov]

I remember when CinemaSins did that joke about how convenient it was that the news of Gramma Tala dying distracted Tui from going to burn the boats. That’s still shocking to think about today. I love your suggestion that The Heart of Te-Fiti was keeping Tala alive until she sacrificed it, but…yeah, her death kinda gave Moana more time to grab a boat, huh?

[@finkyou]

Non-conventional attractive baby is a sentence I thought I would never hear in my life

[@jaysclubhouse4496]

Damn the way you talked abt these films make me want to re watch them

[@abraham2172]

The set up of Moana reminds me of climate change. A group of people on an island, facing a horrifying end, with most of them trying to ignore or deny the threat, only Moana and the grandma determined to do something and safe the world. Especially since islands like Moanas are endagered much more than other places by the rising sea level.

[@crowking666]

"And arguably the best song number in the film- sorry Schaffrillas-"

[@charlesmcmanus4229]

At the 19 minute mark, you mention Marlin, yet pop an image of Dory on the screen. Where do you place “Wreck-it Ralph” in the Disney pantheon you speak of?

[@Sarutaru06]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I didn't finish this movie the first time I tried to watch it (I think I gave it until the coconut attack) and only found it enjoyable when I watched it with my daughters (their favorite character is Hey-hey, so they liked the levity). I liked the story as they laughed along with it, but that first impression of it seeming disjointed has never really gone away.

[@SiyaZwane]

Damn, You didn't have to go this hard. But I'm glad you did

[@cordyceps7531]

I never caught the detail that the heart of tifiti was keeping the Grandma alive, huh

[@CupofSonic]

a small change i think would have made a huge difference would have been to have the Grandma still alive when Moana left the island. So that the journey is more motivated by Moana feeling like she's going to save her grandma. and then During the "I am Moana" bit, having the ghost grandma show up and Moana having to confront the fact that she's failed.

[@ritaantosik6659]

This is an amazing analysis, but I’m a bit surprised that you didn’t discuss the theft of Te Fiti’s heart as a violation of personhood/r*pe and how she is only healed with the gentleness from Moana

[@connorhalleck2895]

my main issue with moana is that the ending should have had the islands becoming volcanic again instead of some random darkness, and the final showdown should have been at her home island. as is, the stakes at the end felt like a mcdouble instead of actual steaks

[@user-dt2uv8ej2i]

That's why Moana never felt as strong as other movies did to me. It felt disjointed and not realizing it's full potential

[@Korra228]

Take a shot every time he says that he loved Moana

[@_tideaina]

I really enjoyed this indepth analysis. It gives me some closure because I feel a lot of new Disney movies kind of feel flat and aren't as good as their older counterparts. So even though I love Moana as well, I see where its faults are

[@artakaworks7821]

Although the tone of the intro is definitely more epic and bombastic than the films presented, Atlantis has by far the darkest intro. We're witnessing the downfall of an entire civilization, all caused not by an antagonist but their own king. The rest of the survivors are doomed to live beneath the surface of the earth for the next 8500+ years.

[@garrettdonovan8238]

Apparently the opening of Finding Nemo was originally going to be a flashback, but the director Andrew Stanton moved it to the beginning to make Marlin more sympathetic.

[@KaijuRhino]

Nice

[@williamstark9568]

I always thought Moana was okay at best and Disney is capable of doing much better. Now that someone has worked very hard to make it better, I know that's the case.

[@ianleonard3264]

Brother bear was pretty brutal as a kid

[@cami3739]

finding nemo was the first movie i saw in theaters and i was way too young to be watching it cuz i made it like halfway through before they had to take me out i was having such a bad time. looking back i feel slightly justified its got its really dark bits

[@saberplaytop]

Could you do a video on the Cyberpunk series on Netflix?

[@atinity6749]

Thank you! I love Moana but it has always felt little lackluster to me. I thought I just didn't get it. Like, I still don't understand the ending. Or what is the heart of Te Fiti, and what it symbolizes.