A Zelda Water Dungeon Retrospective

[@alphaleafgaming747]

Imagine the Ocarina of Time water temple with the Zora mask

[@Retroatron]

Oh man, that would be amazing...

[@dinoman6481]

I wonder why there isn't a mod/hack for that yet.

[@ProjectEchoshadow]

@@dinoman6481 probably

[@JKKoneofakind]

I've been saying for years that Orcarina of Time's Water Temple is the pinnacle of 3d Zelda Dungeon design. The fact that so many people find it as a difficult dungeon is why it's so good. When I was a kid, I had a friend who played OoT, and they had been stranded in the Water Temple for nearly a month. I never saw him find his way out, but I was given a first hand experience with how tricksy the dungeon can be. Eventually, got myself a copy, and started playing through OoT. I spent my playthrough dreading the water temple, and when I got there, it was exactly as I feared. I failed to pay attention to the first route through the dungeon with Ruto, so remembering how to reset and change the water levels was a nightmare. It took me about a week to get through it, after circling through the dungeon lost hundreds of times. At the time, it was a nightmare, but looking back, I truly wish there were more dungeons like the OoT Water Temple. It's basically a large open, three story room flooded with water. Rooms branch out from the edges and interior, and their paths circle around the central chamber. To get to the final boss, you must manipulate the water levels in order to access certain rooms and solve puzzles. The dungeon shifts between 3 different states, and it's the interplay between these different states that makes the dungeon so special. This state change of the dungeon is a technique the Zelda team has used for many dungeons, but never quite to the extent we see it in the Water Temple, unless there's a good example in the 2d games I'm unfamiliar with. Also, I gotta defend the Shadow Temple here. Yes, it's very linear, combat focused, and that takes away alot of it's appeal, but if theres one thing the Shadow Temple does right, it's VIBE. The Shadow Temple is a well of nightmare fuel, and I really wish the series would give us a proper return to something as dark as what we got here. This dungeon doesn't simply run on a spooky scary skeletons tm aesthetic. It's got that old school DnD type horror fantasy. Evil hands that come out of the ground, flaming floating skulls, flaming floating eyeballs, spinning blade scythe traps, guillotines, torture racks and prison chambers, smashy ceiling spike plates, invisible evil hands that plunge from the ceiling and swarm you, and Bongo Bongo, imo one of the best, albeit simple bosses. The Lens of Truth truly gets some extra mileage here, revealing hidden enemies, rendering the invisible visible, seeing through illusions, and the limited resource factor puts that necessary lifeline on a time crunch, giving you more reason to panic in a stressful environment. The dungeon doesn't hold up to repeated visits, but your first time through is always an amazing experience. 3d Zelda's haven't seen a true Shadow Temple like this one in a looong time, and it's a great shame.

[@travisporter5222]

Love the font and the animation. Great edit, sense of humor, and opinions. Id love to see a video about the backgrounds of these temples.

[@Retroatron]

You rock! Thanks for checking out and providing feedback on my other videos.

[@travisporter5222]

@@Retroatron Always follow your gut. I cant wait to see your channel grow man!

[@minight1711]

Water dungeons from worst to best 15: Jabu Jabu (OoT MQ) +Decent fights -Disgusting design -Weird additions like cows ?? -Whats going on in here ? 14: GreatBay Temple (MsM) +Challenging -Confusing -Lack of enemies 13: Water Temple (OoT) +Best miniboss +Good theme -Other fights are lame -Too many keys -Confusing 12: Jabu Jabu (OoT) +Decent boss -Disgusting 11: Lakebed Temple (TP) +Lizalfos are cool +Looks good -Confusing -Lame boss 10: Tower of Gods (WW) +Good Boss +Good miniboss and enemy additions +Good design -Puzzles too easy -Hero trials are NOT a good plot device 9: Ocean Temple (ST) +Challenging boss +Finally some minibosses -No water based puzzle, the ice dungeon had some at least 8: Jabu Jabu (OoA) +Right difficulty for an endgame dungeon -Confusing 7: Vah Ruta (BotW) +Good puzzles +Slightly above other divine beasts (except Naboris) +Good theme -Too short -Serious lack of enemies 6: Anglers Cave (LsA) +Good puzzles +Good fights +Decent theme -Boss too easy -Skippable puzzles 5: Temple of Droplets (MC) +Good atmosphere +Good puzzles +Underrated boss -Damn dark rooms 4: Swamp Palace (ALBW) +Lovely +Good boss +Good theme -Too much taken from ALttP 3: Water temple (OoT MQ) +Same + as normal WT but without the - 2: Swamp Palace (ALttP) +Best item introduction +Decent boss 1: Anciant Cistern (SS) +Awesome boss +Awesome miniboss +Awesome theme +Awesome atmosphere

[@Retroatron]

Wow, thanks for sharing! Great list!

[@19TheFallen]

I agree with this list! Oh, and in regards to the Swamp Palace (ALBW) being so much like the one from ALTTP, it's not too surprising, seeing as when Nintendo started making ALBW, they started it with the mindset to make it a 3D ALTTP remake, but ultimately decided to make it a sequel instead. So, knowing that, who knows how far into production they were when they hit the breaks and made this decision. They probably figured it was easier to use whatever assets they'd already created instead of just scrapping the whole thing and starting from scratch........

[@historictruecrime5119]

I am right there with you. I always go into the water temples before I even try the fire.

[@Peace.and.knowledge1]

Very great content bruh , keep this up i'll be watching any more vids made by you champ ^.^

[@Retroatron]

Appreciate it, and great name!

[@mauricioicloud1281]

Oh my majoras mask water factory is one of the best, great feeling 🙌🏻

[@captain_unhinged4372]

My older sister hated the great bay temple in fact the final boss fight was the last straw as she couldn’t kill the giant fish, so she quit the game. I many years later picked it up where she left off and completed the game with the help of walkthroughs.

[@Nero__Trigger1]

Personally, the shadow temple is my favorite. I'm a sucker for creepy stuff and I love the story of it. The music is amazing and even calms me.

[@RandomJayne]

I used to watch my sister play Ocarina of Time and get lost trying to find that last key in the Water Temple every single time. Later, I played through a custom Portal 2 map that was a remake of the Water Temple. I think instead of raising and lowering the water level you accessed areas by directing lasers into receptacles to flip around panels that either revealed or removed portalable surfaces and the equivalent of keys were Reflection Cubes that let you redirect the lasers. I definitely remember getting stuck and running around in circles, just like my sister, futzing around with the lasers and revisiting rooms I'd already been to trying to figure out what place I hadn't gone to yet to get the last cube I needed to open the chamber exit.

[@Retroatron]

Portal 2 is already hard enough, that sounds nuts!

[@riolulein5388]

Great video, great humor I need more!

[@Retroatron]

Thank you so much! More is certainly on the way!

[@camwyn256]

The OOT Water Temple is nicely laid out. There is the developer intended route which has you change the water level only once, each time you come across the signs to change it. It flows so well, when I can remember the route

[@aaronwoodman6297]

TP has all the best dungeons! I remember watching my sister play through the whole thing, absolutely incredible game. My second favorite Zelda game just below BoTW, A Masterpiece!

[@chrislevack405]

Your intro really resonated with me: I, too, hate doorknobs.

[@Retroatron]

Ah, a fellow member of the anti-doorknob regime!

[@chrislevack405]

@@Retroatron hahaha!

[@elsiebartlett6808]

Farore’s wind is a truly under-utilized mechanic in Ocarina. As a kid I just didn’t understand it and never used it, but as an adult I realize it’s kind of like a makeshift “save state” for a location which is super ahead of its time. I also thought that it could be part of the design of the temple in MM was due to it being a filtration system that had been malfunctioning for the bay itself, which was why the ocean water was murky and clouded and uninhabitable for the Zora. The sludgy water in the temple when link finds it makes sense from that perspective. 🤷‍♀️ Great video! I always appreciated the water temples as well.

[@maximmillennia]

It will be even more fun to watch once you've played the last entries you missed out on ^^

[@Retroatron]

I just went back to Skyward Sword and beat Ancient Cistern, absolutely loved it! Still haven't played A Link Between Worlds, though.

[@maximmillennia]

@@Retroatron Hehe, good work! And nice video anyways :D A Link between Worlds is a little gem too, just like The Minish Cap or Spirit Tracks imo.

[@anonymousfellow8879]

My only complaint with the OoT water temple was that the zora tunic didn’t give Link free swimming movement so we were forced to keep equipping/unequipping those stupid boots. Honestly. If you just let Link SWIM so much of this level’s issues resolve. I honestly didn’t have any trouble whatsoever with the layout: it’s one central room. Just get the water completely drained and work your way back up. Use the map. Then backtrack for any missing portions after getting the hookshot. Easy. Like. I grew up with Ages’ JabuJabu’s Belly and Eagle’s Tower. THAT was convoluted to find your path forward and make sure the switches were correct (and the correct water level.) Meanwhile in OoT you literally never have to search for where to raise/lower the water: it’s in the center chamber. It’s right there! You can even keep raising and lowering it from the same room once you get the hookshot. Why are people complaining about this one again? It won’t ever be my favorite water level…but that’s because I have a grudge against that stupid lazy tunic/boots combo. (Also the music is grating for me. Too repetitive. Not as awful as the OoT Forest Temple or City in the Sky but not good at all. Makes me cranky.)

[@fatalwaffle1715]

Cool video bro!

[@Broockle]

aw man when I was little I looooooved the Zora Mask swimming mechanic I would spend ages just swimming around the great bay, and this dungeon makes you use this a lot which I loved even more. The ice arrows aren't used much? In the N64 version u can use them everywhere on all waters which opens up a lot of possibilities. I was sad when they changed this in the 3DS remake. Also they made the Zora mask swimming require mana in the remake which I also don't understand, I hope someone out there made a perfect mod for this game

[@shadowraith10]

You're gonna have fun with Ancient Cistern. It's got by far the most unique boss of the series and the dungeon itself for me was memorable and fun.

[@mcdabb7226]

You got some really good production value. I’d recommend investing in a Lav mic or shotgun mic for those on camera shots. Just to polish the audio a bit

[@lapevol8]

good

[@rafaelmoura2103]

cant wait to see tears of the kingdom water dungeon :)

[@Retroatron]

You and I both! Water dungeons, when done right, are simply amazing.

[@TBoneTony]

Lord Jabu Jabu would be my fav Water themed Dungeon. The entire Dungeon is inside a large fish, so that part was unique as well as having Ruto as your companion during parts of the Dungeon. My fav Water Temple Boss is either Morpha the Tentacle Slime Eyeball, to the large Fish in Majora's Mask. Though the Sub Bosses like Dark Link as well as that Eye monster were far better challenges, but considering Majora's Mask has a limited time to complete the dungeon that was the reason why the Fish was easier than its Sub Bosses that were 2 big ones that took time to defeat.

[@donthespotter6550]

Oot water dungeon is I would say my favorite dungeon in Oot

[@steelwhite8470]

Are these just the one's you've played thus far? The Ancient Cistern is defiantly the coolest. It's like a shadow dungeon mixed with a water dungeon. And the symbolism is very well done.

[@RandomLord1992]

Sense you like the water temple in Ocarina of Time, you might of like the version of Jabu Jabu's belly in Oracle of Ages as they're rather similar but you can actually swim

[@morpheel]

Wow I'm surprised people dislike the Great Bay Temple so much. It's my second favorite dungeon in Majora's Mask. When I was like 10, I completed it without a guide so I didn't think it was that difficult. It's a really fun dungeon. But I did have trouble with one of the puzzles in Tower of the Gods. So maybe certain people are just better at figuring out different things.

[@jennifermoriarty2188]

I find all dungeons easy..... and idk why people need guides

[@williamdrum9899]

I think the Zora Mask makes it a lot more bearable. Honestly I think the stray fairies make the dungeons more annoying than they actually are. Since you have to get them all on the same trip or it doesn't count

[@Stampybampy]

3:14 agreed, at least among the ones I've played through.

[@Jolis_Parsec]

In Gohdan’s defense, it was apparently designed as the final test for the Hero of Winds to tackle before being deemed as having a fighting chance against the King of Evil himself, thus it would’ve been a bit counterproductive to have it actively trying to game-end Link only to allow Ganondorf to reign supreme as a result. Still could’ve been a bit tougher though, just sayin’. 😋

[@Therush786]

Breathe of the wind's difficulty is dynamic so if you go in strong with all those hearts it's easier

[@treymoney0169]

Finally somebody who hates the shadow temple like I do

[@Retroatron]

Felt linear, was too easy, and the music was virtually non-existent. I'm not a fan of dark temples in general, like the Dark Palace in ALttP or the Palace of Twilight in TP. The Earth Temple in WW is the exception though, loved that one.

[@wildtk123]

I also love the tower of the gods.

[@AstroPeezy]

Gyorge used to kick my ass. And still would without a fairy on hand. You HAVE to get that jump timing perfect after you hit him in the water

[@Retroatron]

Yeah, I'm with you now. I remembered Gyorg being easy when I made this video, but then I went back and played MM and realized he's super hard to time up.

[@SeanNH94]

HE DID THE MASH The MONSTER mash HE DID A SLASH He used his sword to slash!

[@CerbTheUnidog]

I like easy boss fights in Zelda games honestly. To me, the best part of zelda are the dungeons and puzzles and lore. The incredible jump in difficulty for really hard bosses always ends up frustrating me and taking me out of the zelda mood.

[@metaljacket8128]

You forgot the Swamp Palace version in A Link Between Worlds

[@Retroatron]

18:54 ;)

[@Geckur0]

i still havent played botw or teilight princess so im skipping those sections, appreciation for splitting them up so its easier.

[@Retroatron]

That's exactly why I added the video chapters! Also, I hope you'll get around to playing Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild, those are two of the best!

[@WCircuit7224]

30 minutes is a good and maybe on the slightly longer side of how long it takes for a zelda dungeon

[@bananacraft69]

Spirit tracks has a very good water temple...

[@williamdrum9899]

1:23 "Guru-Guru bars" Me: "Say, isn't that the name of the windmill guy?" Wait a minute... both have something to do with things that spin around... maybe 'guruguru' is the sound effect for a propeller in Japanese! If you say it fast enough repeatedly it kind of sounds like a motor engine

[@Retroatron]

"I'm a music man who loves to go around and around! Go around and around!!!" - Phonogram Man, Ocarina of Time I've had this *exact* thought before! Great minds think alike :) Also, from Zeldapedia: "His name is a Japanese onomatopoeia for 'turning round and round, going around in circles,' which also happens to be the Phonogram Man's favorite expression in Ocarina of Time."

[@Anths_art]

i've been saying this for years. the main boss and mini boss should have switched places for Ocarina's Water Temple. It would have made for an amazing finale, even if you hated the dungeon itself

[@tee_nanners]

The OoT Water Temple isn't really that bad in design, the issue is more about UI and pacing. The speed that you sink with the iron boots is slow like molasses which really mucks up the desired speed of running through the dungeon. Then putting on and off the boots in the menu is just, UGH. The 3DS version fixes this in a way to make it much easier to realize that Water Temple is probably in the Top 3 for OoT.

[@NeroLink1107]

Finally someone willing to admit the water temple is great. Honestly those who take issue with it are probably just trash at the game 🤣

[@ryanhollingsworth135]

Bruh he forgot Ancient Cistern from Skyward Sword

[@Retroatron]

18:37 ;)

[@ryanhollingsworth135]

Oh my back, you did real good on this video, 9.5/10 accuracy

[@Retroatron]

@@ryanhollingsworth135 Haha, you're all good! Thanks for the feedback.

[@ryanhollingsworth135]

@@Retroatron yea bro, I love zelda content

[@wildtk123]

My favorite water temple is from skyward sword.

[@rafaelmoura2103]

you should totally have included jabu jabu from oracle of ages though

[@stachu5049]

I actually enjoyed water temples. Not a big fans of ice ones tho, idk why so many people like 'em. Also, water temple is much more enjoyable on 3DS, cause there iron boots are item, not gear so you can just equip and unequip them with one click

[@johnpexton9208]

For me my favorites were the lake bed temple twilight princess. I liked the atmosphere the dungeon item for how it improves on the hook shot. The fact you could adjust the amount of chain to what you need. I liked the water slides and the carnival ride with the gears. Ancient cistern for the atmosphere, boss battle how they transition from the light world to underworld the sound track. OOT had the best mini boss a cool item but I always had to keep back tracking to find the last key and spent more times in pause screen than playing the dungeon itself. Worst favorites Jabu Jabu. I was never a fan of carrying Ruto even though I liked the zora sapphire the best of the 3 spiritual stones. The tower of the gods I thought was boring, and great bay temple for being annoying. I hated gyorg and always ran out of time having to have to restart the game because the game kept glitching at the boss fight.

[@robertmolnar8543]

I don't know about you but Morpha kind of reminds me of Rainbow Devil from Mega Man Zero

[@leviwarren6222]

My dude! Where is mermaids cave?!

[@johnpexton9208]

My favorites were Lake bed temple for the claw shot ancient cistern both for the atmosphere puzzles and feel of the temples. OOT lake bed temple for the mini boss and hook shot my least favorites were jabu jabu, tower of the gods, and great bay. I hated having to be a personal chauffeur for my second least favorite character Ruto and the boss fight. I also hated how boring the tower of the gods were and how annoying the great bay temple was.

[@gamsougher3574]

ancient cistern fantastic but i think calling it a water temple isn't thematically accurate. it doesn't have a lot of the zelda water temple staples in fact it has a really unique concept and story. and the boss is definitely not a traditional water boss

[@Retroatron]

I can see where you're coming from, the whole "dark vs light" theme was very unique. I do think that the light side is a water dungeon, though, while the dark side would be more of an earth/darkness dungeon. It's a mix of a few different elements for sure.

[@LunaP1]

The Water Temple in OoT was annoying, but the Water Facility in MM was BULLSHIT!!! AND SO WAS THE BOSS!!

[@ViperousVT]

I never understand why people bitch out water Temples in Zelda games they clearly haven't played El Nino from Megaman Legends 2 trust me they'll take it back what they said about the water temples.

[@DeletedChannell]

Uhh the tower of the gods isint a water dungeon.....

[@Retroatron]

Yeah, you're probably right, although I've seen some debate on that. I just figured I'd throw it in since parts of it are at least water themed.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

:]D

[@treeze7669]

You may have just ruined the Great Bay Temple's atmosphere for me...

[@Retroatron]

Hehe, glad I could!