Adam Curtis on Real Change

This excerpt was taken from No Future feat. Adam Curtis | Chapo Trap House | Episode #65. I simply added "Burial - Forgive" to the entire clip instead of just the ending like in the original podcast.

[@pawel8365]

This idea of "giving yourself up for something bigger than yourself" - is the only solution for change, but the pervasive strength of individualism stops that. Completely.

[@HypermarketCommodity]

At one point it will break through, but it won't be a peaceful one, a violent breaking of the damm, as conditions through the degeneration of the system and it elites continue, there will come a point when people want safety and security, by any means necessary.

[@RyanPerrella]

An as yet undiscovered balance is needed. Adam is awesome isn’t he? Wow.

[@stevensmith1031]

Listening to this almost 6 years since this episode originally came out hits different

[@joemunkey]

Absolutely. In dress to think how much more I'll think "wow this was perceptive" in 10, 15 years time. Hopefully I can cling on to my tiny chunk of privilege and wealth.

[@RyanPerrella]

All the very best stories by storytellers do this, I liken it to a richness in the work that you just can’t absorb in a single sitting. So you view it again as your life as further unfolded and something which was always there surfaces and is noticed for the first time, always there waiting for you to find it. Only the very best film Directors or Writers display works that do this, it is uncommon and I believe it’s a sign of a true prophetic voice.

[@RyanPerrella]

Thank you Adam Curtis

[@forrestrperry]

Here’s the text of what Curtis says in this clip. - You asked what real change might look like. And I think it's a really I mean, that is a really interesting question for liberals and radicals because there is a hunger for change out there among millions of people who feel sort of insecure and uncertain about the future and do one something, do want that change. - I think that change only comes through a big imaginative idea, a sort of picture of another kind of future, which gives people a sense, which connects with that fearfulness in the back of people's minds and offers them a release from it. That's the key thing. - But I think the question for liberals and radicals is that they are always suspicious of big ideas. That's what lurks underneath the liberal mindset. And the reason is quite right, in a way. Look what happened last time when millions of people got swept up in a big idea, look at the last hundred years of what happened in Russia, and then in Germany. The point is, is that change, political change, is frightening. It's scary. - It's thrilling, because it is dynamic and it's doing something to change the world, but it is scary, because it can change things in ways where nothing is secure. It's like being in an earthquake: even the solid ground underneath you begins to move and things dissolve that you think are solid and real. - And I think that the question liberals and the left have to face at the moment is a really such a difficult question, which is, do you really want change? Do you really want it? Because if you do, many of them might find themselves in a very uncertain world, where they might lose all sorts of things. I mean, what we're talking about, in many cases is people who are sort of at the center of society at the moment; they're not out on the margins, they would have a lot to lose from real political change because it really would change things in the structure of power. - Or, and this is the brutal question, Do you just want things to change a little bit? Do you just want the banks to be a little bit nicer, say, for people to be a little more respectful of each other's identities, all of which is good. But basically, you carry on living in your nice world where you tinker with it. That's the key question. - But you can't just sit there forever worrying about big ideas because there are millions of people out there who do want to change. And the key thing is they feel they've got nothing to lose. You might have lots to lose but they feel they've got absolutely nothing to lose. - But at the moment, they're being led by the right. So things won't remain the same, but society may go off in ways that you really don't want. So what I think, I mean, in answer to your question, hat you need is a powerful vision of the future--with all it's dangers. But it's also quite thrilling. It will be an escape from the staticness of the world that we have today. And to do that, you've got to engage with the giant forces of power that now run the world at the moment. And the key thing is, in confronting those powers and trying to transform the world, you might lose a lot. - This is a sort of forgotten idea, [which] is that actually you surrender yourself up to a big idea. And in the process, you might lose something, but you'd actually gain in a bigger sense, because you've changed the world for the better. I know it sounds soppy, but sort of this is the forgotten thing about politics, which is that you give up some of your individualism, to something bigger than yourself; you surrender yourself, and it's a lost idea. And I think, really an answer to your question is, you can spot real change happening when you see people from the liberal middle classes beginning to give themselves up to something, surrender themselves for something bigger than themselves. And at the moment, there is nothing like that in the liberal imagination.

[@thomasmcenchroe293]

In terms of interviews this answer and the choice of background music is utter brilliance.

[@thevellocet]

I loved Burial before I'd seen an Adam Curtis documentary. Everytime "Forgive" comes on I can hear him talking. 2 of my favourite mediums entwined.

[@jessebirkett8169]

This is the best Adam Curtis clip ever.

[@JDibify]

Listened to the whole podcast a while ago and transcribed exactly that part. It's a terrific part of the interview. Thanks for uploading!

[@Wackaz]

Adam Curtis is fundamentally Hegelian. What a genius man.

[@otumoetaipat]

The last sentence is the reality. The people on the margins, and the big powers will shape the world in the next ten years.

[@robertproctor4609]

The thing is change is coming whether we like it or not. Climate change will lead to huge change and uncertainty. So we have nothing to lose. I'd far rather a new vision of the world that is from the liberal/left than what we are seeing from the right. Let's start imagining.

[@therealspiroagnew818]

I'm afraid this is the only accurate analysis I've seen so far. The order of the natural world, of the environment, is already unraveling. In the short term, there is no stopping it. Curtis says that real political change will lead to the disintegration of things, institutions, systems, we once believed to be indestructible. Real political change isn't the only thing that causes this, unfortunately. Ask anyone who's lived through a major natural disaster. You're absolutely correct - we have nothing to lose.

[@talhandaq13]

My vision is better than your vision. And I'd rather no change than your vision. Words on eternal replay.

[@allencaseyseverinogumiran8432]

History is eternal recurrence, my friend.

[@donnakibarb7066]

TL:DR Of Adams Curtis's film Cant get you out of my head.

[@slybuster]

The clip is from an interview he did for *Hypernormalization.* Edit: Around 2016

[@donnakibarb7066]

@@slybuster I didnt know the timeline, but it does give a reall good synopsis of cant get you our of my head in my opinion.

[@seeriktus]

From when the BBC actually had interesting things to show people

[@jayscott1177]

This might be one of the best clips ever from Chapo archives.

[@thumperhunts6250]

If adam curtis hasnt been able to do it, we are in deeep shit

[@KilgoreTroutAsf]

The problem with big ideas is that they havent be tested, which is a scary thought. Any engineer will tell you that you dont get the best system in your first try, and there will be many tries, failures, dead ends and the occasional improvement in the way. This is what China seems to have gotten right. "We dont know exactly what we are doing so we are going to set up many different experiments in different provinces and learn from them". This may sound crude but it is infinitely better than tanking the whole global economy at once because of some derivative scam because nobody knows what they are doing but they are all doing it anyways and at the same time.

[@gps9715]

Are you kidding me? China???? Do you know anything about the USA? State Rights vs Federal Power and the delicate balancing act that requires? The experimentation allowed by giving the States the ability to have rights different from other states? This is the entire reasoning and framework behind the US. What the hell are you talking about China got it right??? This is the problem with society today, they have no clue about history and it woefully misinforms their entire thought process. China is a command structure, meaning top down, meaning one person tells everyone else exactly what they are allowed to do and not do. jfc man.

[@elcal9600]

total legend

[@Maevelo]

I think people will always want change. As soon as that change happens, the novelty will wear off and they will want more change again. Its probably why alot of millionaires keep working. Retirement is boring as theres little change so they go out and try find problems to solve.

[@gps9715]

you just described progressivism. keep changing things whether or not there is a problem to be solved, because we have to progress, no matter the consequence. it's absurd.

[@mtw251]

Who's here after 1/6?

[@cameronr9513]

Burial and adam curtis seem to go hand and hand these days

[@SwordOfRizz]

Strange that Adam Curtis didn't mention the very long history of utopian thinking.

[@afgor1088]

he did in this video you complete moron...

[@jedijamesmullady]

Resource based economy. ✊🏽🙏🏽

[@donk4304]

Part of me thinks the idea of whether or not we want change is irrelevant - maybe the time has come where we have to change.

[@kevinmathewson4272]

there's no maybe. Either we change, or shifts in climate and sea level will cause a wave of wars and famines that will result in the collapse of organized human society on a global scale.

[@umchinagirard1800]

Agree change is ethical or apocalypse . Seeking hopeful examples, strategies of successful changes made to a family scapegoat system? Because there are no successful examples, otherwise the power structure itself would have changed. Humans have invested in this scapegoat mechanism and blindly went into this: people are so deeply a part of the family scapegoat system that any and all attempts to change it ultimately fail.

[@werkjob2270]

hi love your stuff

[@ioreodream]

Would someone please post a link to the full interview? Thanks!

[@trevor9241]

Is the background moving for anyone else?

[@bobdhitman]

I haven’t heard of an idea worth giving up my individualism for

[@scumoftheearth4246]

That's the thing. Is such an idea possible? Can we find it? Or should we even look?

[@andrisheks958]

Attention Adam Curtis. I just love your doco: The Century of the Self. It should be compulsory viewing for anyone who cares about society and resistance to manipulating the truth. Now, concerning the present clip: I don't think the middle-class would have to fear much change if they united against the 1% -99% power inbalance that is devastating our world. All they would need to do is to unite to tax mutibillionaires heavily, make them pay the taxes they swindle away, particularly in poor countries and spend the money for the common good, infrastucture, education, public housing and health, and to combat climate warming.

[@mateosanfitz9625]

What is the music in the background

[@JordMT]

Burial forgive

[@ohnewadams7837]

❤ amazing mind

[@c0ree]

I'm not religious but what Curtis is saying is ultimately reminiscent of the story of Jesus Christ who gave himself up for the betterment of mankind

[@agiftfromdracosfather3490]

That what's that track in the background

[@amicable5237]

Burial - Forgive

[@MarkT]

Pressure for change will not come without (persona-mentall) discretionary energy reserve. This reserve is drained by real estate cost stress. Mortgage stress. Which is a harsh ratchet of a financial trap. Ratchet due to the lock-in of effect of MBS (Mortgage-Backed-'Securities'). MBS tie up real estate tranches of properties for Merchant bank trading 'purposes' (profiting). MBS tranches are rarely bundled back to market. The hot potato effect means properties (inventory in market terms) means foreclosed properties are empty for decades. Govt's could limit the size of these tranches to ease the return to true market signals. Over time even, gradually, to normaiize the return to a normal economic equivalence of costs of daily goods and service. This was not corrected by the lesson of 2007-8. Might learn from similar as predicted for next year?

[@leeoreilly6797]

Interesting post/perspective, thank you.

[@umchinagirard1800]

Yes change is stopped by those who hang on to exausting jobs, child caring, dysfunctional families, and social cohesion . A revolution perhaps of change would mean rejection of those. Seeking hopeful examples, strategies of successful changes made to a family scapegoat system? Because there are no successful examples, otherwise the power structure itself would have changed. Humans have invested in this scapegoat mechanism and blindly went into this: people are so deeply a part of the family scapegoat system that any and all attempts to change it ultimately fail.

[@mikele-baigue8155]

Do we really want change?

[@watermelon520b]

No.

[@chronocide]

yes, obviously - and if you dont just crawl into the nearest grave, shut the fuck up, and pull the dirt in over yourself.

[@mikele-baigue8155]

@@chronocide Don't be silly.

[@mikele-baigue8155]

@@watermelon520b Then stop watching

[@chronocide]

@@mikele-baigue8155 I'm as serious as a heart attack. I want change.

[@African_Rose]

Violence

[@user-cp7lx7vs1y]

@doomer_slime you gotta put more videos with up with a golden channel name like that

[@willjames1712]

I have so many criticisms: - It's as if he were talking about change for change's sake. - He talks of liberals as if they were radicals. - Hesitation and suspicion to ideas is the basis of conservatism not liberalism. - His response is directed at the intellectually curious liberal middle class, not the working class who are, as he says, being 'led' by the right. This is another way of saying that the working class are stupid enough to be convinced by something not radical. Quite Leninist, no? - He thinks that millions of people being 'led by the right' is an indicator of the desire for radical change. He attempts to speak on their behalf. But maybe they don't want so much change or at least his kind of change? - Politics is not just about surrendering yourself to something bigger, it is also about proportionality. - Its almost as if he, and the editor of this video, were trying to lull his largely privileged audience into f feeling as though they have nothing to lose, even though the assumption is that they do in fact have a lot to lose, and quite possibly, a lot to be grateful for. I could go on. I thought that this excerpt is a really good example as to why the liberal left have done so badly in recent years. They are completely out of touch, thinking that by adopting a revolutionary mindset, one assumes the position of the oppressed and is therefore grounded in the harsh reality of the working class, thereby artificially enabling them to feel entitled, righteous, indignant and morally superior to those who oppose or disagree with them. In a word, its vanity, and much of the working class sense it, and quite rightfully despise it. That is why they choose to vote in ways that horrify today's left.

[@HankGrill344]

It doesn’t sound like you listened to the rest of the podcast. This is just the very last 4min conclusion statement. Listen to the rest if you want to see what he means by “liberal” and “change.”

[@RaHeadD10]

Watched all adam curtis work and trust me he's highly critical of liberals and the left as much as he is the right. Its hard to pinpoint where he is in the political spectrum. In an interview he did in Salzburg he even said Thatcher was really the last great politician the UK had even though she wasnt perfect.

[@umchinagirard1800]

Yes agree he only reaches deep type thinkers. Is not a mainstream popular program . With wider reach . likes of prince Harry or Ellen. Seeking hopeful examples, strategies of successful changes made to a family scapegoat system? Because there are no successful examples, otherwise the power structure itself would have changed. Humans have invested in this scapegoat mechanism and blindly went into this: people are so deeply a part of the family scapegoat system that any and all attempts to change it ultimately fail. Why are the dynamics so intractable

[@jackbailey7037]

I notice he doesn't say what we would be 'giving ourselves up to' is. Anyone can be the critic, the observer or even a self-styled prophet. He's right that most of the 'solutions' that have been applied in the 20th century have backfired bigtime. He has no faith in evolution or natural rates of change, or in human-scale change. Technology is already propelling us at warp speed toward we know-not what.

[@allencaseyseverinogumiran8432]

Technology is not an autonomous sphere of human affairs, for it still depends on us and for whose benefit will it be. Is it for the banks, the liberal state, the people and so on. The only way to find out is to strive against the current.

[@meegz149]

Jack Bailey yes technology has changed so much that even with all the supposed breakthroughs in the last 50 years wages are still stagnant and so is productivity growth.

[@mf173]

nice clip could have gone without the stupid music

[@zachgravatt5571]

I'm pretty sure this music was in the original podcast as well

[@dodec8449]

first Adam Curtis fan that calls ambient "stupid music"