Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Cruiser

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Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Cruiser
Welcome to my new series where I analyze units from Advance Wars. In this installment, I will be taking a look at the cruiser.
#gba #advancewars #nintendo

[@strikerstratos]

Imbalance like this make me appreciate how Days of Ruin balance a lot of units to make more units more useful in more situations.

[@ninjaone1]

I'm not sure if I like or dislike how strong they made battleships. Being able to move and fire in the same turn is absolutely insane for an indirect unit, but it's at least more than a glorified rocket.

[@strikerstratos]

@@ninjaone1 battleships are expensive and they are restricted to the sea plus submarine easily wrecked them. Battleships being better kinda also directly improve cruiser viability since they can used to protect your battleships.

[@sewasify]

@@ninjaone1 they had to make them crazy strong if they were gonna justify the high price. I think it balances out.

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

@@sewasify to be fair the only thing I think days of ruins did bad was the CO powers as most of them seems basic or just doesn't make sense mainly will and isablea, but most of the units are balanced out, kinda love the new fighters and motorcycles and flares

[@caellanmurphy4751]

@@ibrahimabumustafa7335 i mean greyfield is basically JESS and tabitha sturm. generally its not meant to be obvious when to pop the co-power after all as some of the boosts you get from the zone can be massive. and tabitha(and caulder to a much more extreme extent) might aswell be walking co powers

[@TheGamerASD]

About the myth you mentioned, Mangs: In Dual Strike, AI players can load their air units into allied cruiser/carrier units, however, human players cannot.

[@manuelacuna4188]

I'm sorry *W H A T*

[@flitzsdomingos]

Is that REALLY TRUE !?

[@SoldierOfFate]

This is true even in the older titles. I had an ally AI load their Battle Copter onto one of my Cruisers before. However, it's only happened once in a random game and I was unable to replicate it afterwards.

[@fadeemblem7665]

That chip damage in Dual Strike was actually really valuable for sinking landers and finishing off other weakened naval units. A 1 HP lander can ferry units just as well as a 10 HP one, and it's so dumb that a 1 HP lander can just ignore an enemy cruiser in AW1 and AW2. Imagine if AA couldn't fire on APCs or Artillery/Rockets or other AAs. No wonder the Cruiser feels so weak in AW1 and AW2.

[@aulderx1437]

There is in fact an AW game were AA can only targets Air units I think its from OG/game boy color or NES?

[@scotterboi9]

It's more like: They can't attack anything except for air units, are more expensive than a Md tank, and aren't even the best at their job.

[@ctje1638]

the increased durability also makes it much more useful. As an AWDS player, the cruiser is pretty useful IF there is an island map.

[@robertharris6092]

​​@@aulderx1437 thats either famicom wars or gameboy wars. Not advance wars. There was also more, different units im those games.

[@Kerim9991]

@@scotterboi9 all naval units tbh. more expensive than their air/land counterparts, but worse at their job. Battleship is better than rockets by pure stats ig.

[@Mr.Pallanza]

Cruiser in Thumbnail: **Uses Anti-Submarine Missiles to hit Attack Copters** Me: *_Wait. That's illegal. I mean, sure, cool, but still illegal._*

[@BusterBuizel]

Almost all IRL cruisers have anti air missiles for both anti aircraft and anti missile defense

[@Mr.Pallanza]

@@BusterBuizel indeed they do. But in the context of Advanced Wars 2, the devs made an odd choice to have it target _just submarines_ with only it's missiles, and have as an average Anti-Air capability. At least it was fixed in Days of Ruin, making it a versatile naval unit to face off with. But in AW2, it's just an overpriced sub hunter and weaker anti air unit that can carry copters :/

[@alejandro_rodriguez_99]

@@Mr.Pallanza specially because without a defensive bonus from a CO zone or power it can one-shot every air unit, making them the perfect shields for any battleship.

[@flukenchrome9259]

That begs the question though: Why didn’t they add it in the first game?

[@Cybersharky_]

​@@BusterBuizelDegenerate

[@jadekaiser7840]

For Days of Ruin differences: -Yes, they did lower the price to 16k -Cruisers in DoR can attack non-submarine ships with their missiles decently effectively, basically being the "tank" of naval warfare as they do a little more damage than gunboats and have more than the gunboats' 1-shot ammo reserves. They also do slightly more damage to subs in particular, such that they will consistently 1-shot them if both are at full HP even if the sub is on a reef iirc. -They are much more durable against everything in general, and especially B-copters can barely even scratch their paint. Iirc the best damage you'll hit them with is a battleship or rockets for about 50-60% HP, or a bomber for a little bit more if you're willing to take the return fire. Which is an actual worry, because: -They will rape your air units. Seriously. Do not let an air unit get in range of an enemy cruiser in DoR, ever. They oneshot everything, usually even if they're at 8 or 9 HP. Especially if their target is a copter. Attacking a cruiser with a B-copter in DoR will do nothing but suicide your B-copter on their return fire. There might be others, but those are the main ones.

[@newcheesegrater]

I wonder if Waylon would make an exception to this. If I remember correctly, he's an air defense based CO.

[@lagg1e]

Cruisers in DoR are like the muscular Doge meme. They eat air units and shit dead submarines.

[@stonii8385]

@@newcheesegrater Waylons units still get annihilated by cruisers unless he pops his power or the cruiser is only firing on the Co unit.

[@jadekaiser7840]

@@lagg1e Hell, sea units in general in DoR are like that meme. Still expensive, if mostly a bit less than in past games, but they ride a pale horse and their name is Death. I mean... DoR Battleships. Do I even need to say more?

[@yourlocalmilkman916]

@@jadekaiser7840 stil eh

[@Xertaron.]

Basically update them to their DoR version. They completely demolish battle copters regardless who gets the first strike and deal with air units pretty well, while being able to attack other naval units. As they should for that price.

[@Gamerguy826]

Agreed. The DOR Cruiser was way better.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

DoR generally has very strong naval units. DoR battleships are THE sh*t. Carriers can make super versatile aircrafts. Also gunboats, don't forget the gunboats.

[@Funnyso869]

Yeah but for all of that should it still have the ability to have aircrafts on it I've always thought we should have some form of aircraft carrier in these games it's mean focus is really to carry aerial units it would be decently fast and be a great counter to aerial units in general and basically be untouchable by ground units but it would suffer against naval units heavily

[@LeoMidori]

@@Funnyso869 There are aircraft carriers in Duel Strike and Days of Ruin. The ones in Duel Strike are basically for carrying air units and also act like Missile units on the sea, and the ones in DoR have weak close range anti-air attacks but are mainly used for building, launching and supplying Sea Plane units, but can carry, repair and resupply two air units at a time!

[@thebravegallade731]

@@LeoMidori I think DoR ones should have missiles, its not like missiles are strong anyway.

[@NerdySatyr]

I'd love to see a video covering all of the weird niche Black Hole units, not so much the Neo-tank but, the Piperunner, the Black Bomb, the Black Boat etc, such odd units!

[@Senneih_cram]

Black boat is gunboat mixed up with the healer class from any mmorpg class

[@estepeadr12345]

@@Senneih_cram without the ability to shoot

[@redhunter9669]

I love memeing pipe runners against my friends because we came up with the warcry “I’m bout to run them pipes!!” And we just laugh every single time

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

Black bombs are pretty interesting. They're supposed to be the counter to the huge deathball of indirects, but they're usually banned in AWBW because memes. There's also the interaction with Colin and Kanbei having superior or inferior bombs because they still do the same damage despite having vastly different costs.

[@TheManofthecross]

@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS if that's the case then the mega tank will have free run on there. and let's see if someone can win with the black bomb and extra.

[@projectpitchfork860]

I don’t know why B-Copters are even halfway decent against any naval unit. Considering the price difference they really shouldn't.

[@Lorddesructo]

To be honest in actual military warfare a attack helicopter with air to ship missiles are usually extremely effective. What isn't effective vs ships normally though is level bombers like advanced wars bombers are portrayed. (since high altitude bombers without guided ordinance are extremely inaccurate vs moving targets)

[@yoloman3607]

It’s most likely because the devs intended cruisers to carry B copters kinda like real life, but honestly loading them made no sense 99% of the time.

[@robertharris6092]

@@Lorddesructo except a ships CIWS would shoot down the missiles.

[@Gatitasecsii]

@@Lorddesructo absolutely correct, old bombers rely on carpet bombing tactics, which suck at hitting targets at sea.

[@h1tsc4n40]

@@Lorddesructo tbf there is no reason to believe advance wars bombers can't be using GPS guided munitions. This universe clearly has missiles and precision artillery. I would argue a helicopter is less effective against a ship, because it can't saturate the CIWS and is more vulnerable to counterfire, while a modern bomber can sit very high, pop a lot of chaff, and launch guided bombs or anti-ship missiles from standoff range.

[@damd9185]

Man, cruisers are so good in Days of Ruin, or naval combat in general.

[@mghegotagun]

and all it took was allowing them to actually attack all other naval units and defense boosts

[@derkatwork33]

AWBW should have a DoR toggle for battles. Add unit “level up” and new units.

[@fortunastreet]

Their defense against air units are so buffed in days of ruin that they can tank enemy bombers (take only 50% dam), and crush them on the counter-attack (deal 105% base dam). Battle copters get completely demolished by days of ruin cruisers (deal 5%, take 120%). The addition of more terrain stars and hiding places on water, the fact that they can pass maritime bridge and their reduced price tag at 16.000 make them stupidly strong on naval+air maps.

[@damd9185]

@@fortunastreet Yeah, the cruiser went from being an underwhelming unit to a pretty powerful all rounder naval unit.

[@DraconisMarchVII]

Yeah, just copying DoR navy would be great for improving naval units.

[@RadioTails]

The Field Training does mention about Cruisers loading T Copters, which is handy, but it hardly happens so most people forget about this ability. I don't remember the Field Training mentioning this for B Copters know. I could be mistaken.

[@MrMarinus18]

What is the point of that? With infantry in an APC it increases their movement and infantry are mainly for capturing property rather than combat. Loading copters onto a cruiser not only means the copters are not fighting but copters actually have a higher movement than cruisers so it's slowing them down.

[@SoldierOfFate]

Field Training does mention that tidbit about B Copters. Also, if copters are loaded onto Cruisers, they will resupply them on the next turn.

[@MrMarket1987]

The price can stay the same if the defenses are increased overall, sub dive detection is improved, and it gets like a 10% boost to damage so it can actually be a scourge against subs instead of relying so much on Luck for finishing off from full health what is a stealthy unit with a lot of vision.

[@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060]

Cruiser in Days of Ruin is actually surprisingly good. 16000 cost instead of 18000, better defenses against Air Units, and can strike against all units aside from some exceptions.

[@greg_mca]

@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 land units being those exceptions

[@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060]

@@greg_mca Yeah, but then again, who uses a Cruiser against land targets anyways.

[@dragonlord1507]

👍👍

[@franciscodetonne4797]

​@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 not modern cruisers, but WW2-era cruisers were prominent land/shore bombardment units. Modern artillery on cruisers can still do that, and probably even better.

[@hennyzhi2261]

As for what unit I'd like to see next, it's gotta be the anti-air. I still don't think I use them well enough beyond the obvious "they started using b-copters, I gotta get one to the front lines". If you could even break down when it would be worthwhile to chip away at an anti-air units health to weaken enemy tanks (at various levels of full strength to reduced hp) that could be neat.

[@Blizz3112]

you know what would've made cruisers quite great utility (especially for Sensei)? Besides reloading helicopters, also heal them while inside a cruiser each turn until max... :-P

[@gigabyte2248]

DoR carriers can repair, as well as resupply, and it renders cruisers' ability to shelter copters even less useful than it already is. DoR carriers can also *launch* aircraft, allowing them to unload, move and attack all on the same turn. If you had a carrier (and it wasn't already full) why would you ever load a copter onto a cruiser in that game? Giving the cruiser one or both of those buffs would be game-changing for any combined naval-air battle

[@edxon26368]

@@gigabyte2248 Well sadly in dual strike thay can't :/

[@AceAviations2]

@@edxon26368 Days of Ruin nailed Carrier combat, it's just a shame that they were too expensive to see realistic use. I'd expand the Carrier's ability to Repair and Launch Air Units to the Cruiser for it's Copters.

[@bongcloudopening5404]

@@edxon26368 too bad in dual strike all they do is be a bigger anti air and ressuply air units

[@h1tsc4n40]

I always had this headcanon: In my opinion, the naval part of the game was rushed and added last, and thus was incomplete. One of the pre-advance wars titles had an "Aegis Warship" whose name is clearly inspired by the Aegis Frigate, a type of ship that indeed possesses the abilities of the current advance wars cruiser: Great anti-air cover and has torpedoes to take on submarines. So i think the game was supposed to have a frigate unit, or something like that. Now, why do i say this. First, because the cruiser in Advance wars has the cut horizontal gun animation, implying that it was probably supposed to fight other ships with it (not to mention that the cruiser's AA gun really does not look like an AA gun at all, but more like a rapid-fire cannon) and because it uses Missiles against submarines, which, well, ASROCs exist but i don't think that the developers intended for that to be the cruiser's weapon, considering the animation and that it can still fire on unsubmerged submarines, there would be no reason why it shouldn't be able to fire on other ships aswell. DoR fixes this, making the cruiser a direct brawler, being even able to deal significant damage to battleships and absolutely wiping the floor with air units. Now what i don't understand is why they never reworked the naval units until DoR came around, since naval combat is very much incomplete and not worth it at all in pre-DoR titles. Even DS added the Carrier in a very poor state, being a glorified missile that can carry two air units for... reasons, but not actually being able to attack with them, or repair, or build them. And, returning to my initial statement, the DoR Cruiser's sprite is, in fact, that of a Frigate. A Garcia class, to be exact. So it's very likely that the current cruiser was supposed to be a frigate and that there was meant to be another naval unit.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

The ship's artillery gun can be used as anti-air weapon as well. Dual-purpose artillery was common in late WW2, but missiles took over afterward. Artillery guns are still a very prominent part of modern guided-missile warships, but IMO they are only for attacking smaller ships like torpedo boats and such (don't quote me on this). "Cruiser" is supposed to be a very versatile warship type IRL, so them attacking all kinds of units is 100% possible, and would fix the unit greatly. I guess the AW developers want the guns to do something so they made the ship shoot air units with it.

[@h1tsc4n40]

@@franciscodetonne4797 I mean, yes, cruiser nowadays is basically "battleship that has modern tech and doesn't suck" but a fully realistic cruiser in AW would pretty much make BBs obsolete (just as it did in real life!). And yes, i know naval guns have proximity shells, but their hit probability on modern aircraft is very low. The US wanted to fix that with the guided shell program, which had an anti air shell as a part of it, but that never really went anywhere. Artillery guns nowadays are there because they are less overkill than missiles for certain targets, and as backup weapons. Missiles are very much the primary weapon. But in the context of advance wars, the cruiser's gun being very large yet being called an "Anti-Air gun" and having a land attack animation in my speculation could mean that the cruiser was originally supposed to be a more generalist kind of unit, which would make sense (it is a cruiser after all)

[@franciscodetonne4797]

​@@h1tsc4n40 AW devs could have used the gun as backup weapon like you said, like how tanks use their machine guns on all units if they run out of ammo. But then I guess they also thought that cruisers would need 2 different kinds of missiles (for ships and for AA) so they made the gun the AA weapon (?) Or that they think the gun on the cruiser being able to attack ground/ships would be overkill (which it isn't). No idea.

[@h1tsc4n40]

@@franciscodetonne4797 i have no idea, especially because in DoR the cruiser can attack other ships with the missiles and it actually makes it very well balanced.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

​@@h1tsc4n40 my gripe for non-Day of Ruin cruisers is that they can attack subs with missiles, but not other ships. What is the point of that? They could have made the cruiser missiles deal less damage against surface ships than against subs, like 50 - 65%.

[@Other-AllOfTheAbove]

12:11 I can vouch for the 'loading units to ally' argument on Dual Strike. A computer ALLY loaded its fighter to my cruiser. I couldn't do it myself though.

[@JaxOf7]

I am honestly so perplexed by the inability to shoot ships, like it shoots surfaced subs just fine. - Anyway yeah shout-outs to dual strike. Could probably get a functional naval force from there by adjusting power/prices as a whole.

[@TheWeapon33]

Fun/goofy balance idea : Let cruisers capture properties, and yes, it would be able to move on coastal cities and capture them.

[@theolanderdilag3872]

Meanwhile, in another universe: Orange Star cruisers can blast through Blue Moon Kirov Airships especially at Tier 3 promotion.

[@lrugelgumiho4751]

Be one with Yuri

[@marcosmauricio7805]

The Aegis, huh? That thing is an absolute beast

[@av8bharrier2modified76]

I want to see more of this series of reviewing units

[@DeejusFan4Ever]

Yesssss please do more videos like these :) they helping us out to understand the potential that every unit has

[@armorbearer9702]

They should change Drake's day to day ability. Instead of increasing his defense, his Navy units should be 25% cheaper. Cheaper units would make sense because he is a former pirate. Drake players would finally want to build Navy units.

[@kirbyis4ever]

He'd be utterly busted beyond belief being able to pump out battleships to act as superior indirect units! Provided you're on a map that actually has ports! It would be very neat though - a pirate's life for Drake.

[@markberghel275]

The best way to think of a cruiser is as a naval escort unit--not great for dealing with other naval threats, but at least able to fend off other threats that the other ships can't. Then Days of Ruin came around and made it the go-to naval unit for most situations because it could deal with most opposition decently enough that it was actually worth the price tag.

[@jonahkluger6136]

It's been said 1,000 times but DoR naval warfare is really fantastic. Naval units are more focused on how each unit can cover and protect land units rather than how they can help to conquer the entire ocean. On top of that, each sea unit does a lot more and basically dominates their respective area/role. Because of this, people only ever need a few naval units to compliment their army. Since each naval unit does so much, and so few are needed, the high cost makes a lot more sense and most battles are actually very enjoyable. Even non-highfunds games can have naval battles.

[@MrMarinus18]

I still think it's not perfect. I think adding a frigate would be a good thing. A baseline direct unit.

[@cartman19892]

The price is way to speed but with the restrictions not to lower the price, I would give this unit the ability to always fire first against air units und extend the dived subs detection +1

[@JJSquirtle]

I owe you for this one Mangs, was playing awbw with a friend a while ago on this one naval map where there's a small land-locked section for grounded units, 6 harbors and two missile silos as Olaf vs drake and while I stalled his land pushes, he started preparing to take all my island properties (many of which I took from him) with 4 subs sinking all my landers and black boats. The shock on his face when I went all in on two cruisers and he watched all his subs fold as I built a battleship (this was normal funds btw) and finally forced him to surrender by shelling his rockets

[@Satodc]

Menace of all air units, especially Airships, fires faster when player manually controls it.

[@hustlevania3318]

I imagine setting up the maps for these unit analysis videos is fun af.

[@gdrad]

I think Wargroove kind of proved to me how hard Naval balance can be in this kind of turn based game. Anti-ship units in particular tend to be the hardest to balance. Though "anti-anti-ship" units can also be odd. Which is what I think is the case in AW (subs are anti-ship, cruisers are anti-anti-ship). I don't have any ideas I particular like, but the ideas that I don't outright hate include: Giving Cruisers a ranged attack on ammo system. Allow cruisers to do a pre-emptive counter against air (split the counter in two, with half before and half after), allow cruisers to move extra tiles if it gets them adjacent to an air unit, or something like revealing enemy air in a larger then vision radius. I just can't see purely giving them extra move or anti air damage as being good for overall game balance. Overall game balance may require a weaker cruiser for naval. A small cost reduction across naval units seems the best way to adjust naval.

[@smellyfishstiks]

Think as a kid playing I remember copters being able to load into cruisers, it’s been a while though so I forgot but ya, love this series so far!

[@spiral7892]

That intro! 😂 Got a good laugh out of me there. Enjoying the series Mangs.

[@krisjohn4668]

Dual Strike is the only AW game I have, and watching your channel is helping me get back into it. Thank you!

[@AceAviations2]

I actually DID encounter an allied AI loading an Air Unit onto a Carrier of mine when playing Dual Strike, I've never seen it happen since so I suspect that it was a glitch, but that might be where that stems from. I know that this happened for sure as I remember it. The buffs I'd do to the Cruiser (from Dual Strike): 1. Reduce it's cost to 16,000 Funds like it was in Days of Ruin 2. Give it the Vision it had in Days of Ruin (5 Vision) 3. Buff the power of the Missiles so that it's a guaranteed one-shot on Subs and deal decent damage to ships 4. They would now be able to resupply and repair Copter units on board and also Launch them like the Days of Ruin Carrier Launched Air Units, meaning that they can immediately attack or get their foot unit going without wasting a turn. 5. It's durability would be buffed a bit so that it doesn't take as much damage from other units. I wouldn't buff it's anti-air abilities that much (would be slightly stronger against Air Units) because I'd introduce the Missile Ship, which would be my buffed Missile unit (2-5 Range and able to attacked Cloaked Air Units) that can move and fire, which based on that description indicates that it's a dedicated anti-air ship. In other words it would be a slightly watered-down version of the Days of Ruin Cruiser.

[@SoraTerumi24]

Advanced Wars Cruiser: Literally made of paper Advanced Wars DoR: I heard you talking shit. Death! *fires 1 single flak gun. 5 B-Copters explode*

[@alpharius5178]

Set price at 16000, give it the ability to attack ships, slightly increase attack vs ships from Duel strikes, and perhaps give it an indirect capability vs land units to simulate coastal raiding (range 1-2, harassing damage, can’t 1 shot any unit, move and shoot permissible).

[@rngstratos7812]

Fantastic series so far! :)

[@roylazarovich]

Very cool and informative series!

[@SlimKirby]

I think the only way to improve the Cruiser is to first improve the bigger problem that was highlighted early in the video in regards to sea units just being completely outclassed by air units. I always see naval units as "a means to to take a battle to the endgame," but never necessarily part of the endgame, and even then, like you said, if you have air units available, they can do that just as well, maybe even better under specific circumstances, and they can still mostly contribute even in the endgame state. Heck, even Fighters can act as a base blocker if they can't attack anything, something naval units can't do unless the bases are ports. Their cost is just way too expensive to be worth, and even though fighters and bombers are more expensive than cruisers and subs respectively, they are still pretty close in price point and you have B-Copters available as a cheap air unit alternative that can attack more than what the cruiser even can. I actually noticed the b-copter attacking cruiser damage values recently and it actually kind of shocked me how good that engagement still is for the B-Copter, even if it will lose some damage on its own. It still puts the cruiser at half-efficiency and pretty much out of commission, something that really sinks those unit funds. Air combat is just so much more simplified, efficient and cost effective and it's hard for the cruiser to stay on its sea legs as a result. Plus it is silly that they can't even attack other naval units except the submarine. Even if it is fixed in DS, it's still rather limiting since air units will have an easier time escaping a cruiser than a cruiser will escaping a bomber and B-Copter assault, especially in an island heavy game. I'm gonna vote Anti-Air, to continue the streak of anti-air units you've been covering, lol.

[@Bladeofwar94]

I'd love a video on the recon! I've been seeing your AWBW vids where people just field tanks instead of recons so maybe show the strengths and weaknesses of them in a video!

[@zeroakira584]

The way I see is Cruiser can become the patrol boat or scout boat by giving it more vision, less cost to build and deal more damage to infantry using it anti-air machine gun. The ability to counter subs and deal damage to airborne targets can stay but you can no longer garison and re-supply battle copters anymore, instead this role will be taken by another unit such aircraft carriers or destroyers in "Day of ruin". Also it may use a little more movement but can be taken out or cripple by units with anti-armor weapons if they get the first strike like the ones in the video.

[@isenokami7810]

Not that I was planning on using cruisers much anyway, but I did have an idea for how to make cruisers semi-useful on a map that also has airports…though it’s more that a custom map would have to be built around this strategy. Basically, have a map that has ports and airports, but the islands are stupidly far apart. Then, treat the cruisers you deploy like TF2 dispensers: pick spots in the ocean to make your own resupply points for your air units. Aside from that one niche scenario, totally agree, this sucks even on paper.

[@samuelbarker6755]

One thing that might not help them too much in terms of balance but I would love to see introduced as a mechanic is if stowing B. Copters in cruisers let them utilise the offensive capabilities of the stowed B. Copters (Scrambling them to counter-attack units the copters can engage when under direct fire from said units). It’d turn the tank/md. Tank v. cruiser match from a chip damage into a counter-massacre, and would provide a way of determining if there were units stowed in the cruiser. Even if that proved too complex, at least have stowing units give cruisers an attack boost. The more I think about it, the more I’d like to see transport-capable units utilise the units they transport for offense purposes. Imagine if infantry/mechs fired back at the recons/infantry/tanks/AA you would use to harass a T. Copter or APC. Landers would be less of a risk for moving high-value ground units if they could fire back with even some of the strength of the stowed unit(s). Imagine putting a rocket or a missile on a lander to create a rudimentary/fragile version of a Battleship or Carrier. It’s probably a dumb idea but I’d love the additional avenues of combat it would allow.

[@DeathWish822]

You can load air units onto allied ships in Days of Ruin. Both cruisers and aircraft carriers can house allied air units and resupply them at the top of the ship owner's turn. The catch is, the ship owner must offload the air unit, the air unit commander cannot do it themselves. Note that it is only the air units that can do this. you cannot load your land units onto allied transport ships, gunboats, or transport copters.

[@BusterBeachside]

I'd like to see the Black Boat next! If sticking with units available in AW2, I'd like to see Artillery. Keep these up!

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

11:05 Eagle and his Lightning Drive/Strike are beating their meat over this revelation.

[@FIamestalker]

Its interesting how the Cruiser went from a strictly anti-air/anti-sub unit in the early Advance Wars games to the complete Guardian of the Seas in Days of Ruin where it could deal with anything that wasn't a Battleship

[@yourlocalmilkman916]

Maybe not the gunboats its scary

[@SoldierOfFate]

The Cruiser can easily deal with a Battleship if it has a Gunboat escort. The BB would have to decide between shooting its escorts or the Cruiser itself.

[@fishyfinthing8854]

I wonder would it be better if we have more variety of ships. For example: -Destroyer: Basically cruiser but only for anti-air, can direct attack any air unit and have short range missile. -Corvette: Fast and cheap ship with AA gun. Basically, recon on water. Can load an infantry or mech. -Dreadnought: Much more expensive than a Battleship but it's a rocket and missile combined that move on water.

[@demynemy7428]

Cruisers are my fav naval units bcoz of their versatility. Perfect escorts for bigger vessels as they can hunt down subs and take out enemy aircrafts effectively. U can hide 2 copters in them too. For 18k I think they r totally worth it

[@Gamerguy826]

Definitely. I never thought of Cruisers as disappointing but just as situational. They go great with Battleships like bread and butter.

[@nitorishogiplayer3465]

The cruiser is a nice unit to see you do a video on. Lol that you actually put an end screen with the joke. The original Japanese for cruiser is actually "escort frigate" and I have seen the AI in Days of Ruin surround the battleship with 2 cruisers and I've found myself building cruisers before battleships on maps where the opponent gets air units first so I could protect the battleship. I think the intention is just as its Japanese name states, it's kind of a defensive escort unit even though I've used it to deal with air units before.

[@amaurystengel]

Wargroove did something very nice to Cruisers/Harpoon Ships. They are a ranged unit and have a big range to fire at "subs" and air units, but they have poor mobility.

[@alejandro_rodriguez_99]

The problem with cruisers is that they are jack of all trades, master of none. It has decent vision, but subs are better and can dive. It has anti air power, but an AA does a little more damage for half the prize. It has good movement, but the units with similar prize that it can attack have more movement or in the submarine case, it can dive, even if real cruisers have a SONAR for detect submarines (a SONAR fuction will be interesting because even if it is limited it would counter heavily vision subs) . It is an APC for copters but not planes (even if this is realistic it is the most expensive transport unit and can only transport 2 type of units). So unlike others units with the similar price it doesn't have any trait that make them unique, subs have dive and 5 vision it is like a recon, but every tile is a forest in FOW, bombers destroy everything except air, neotanks are the most offensive ground units (mega are more juggernauts with their low movement) and fighters have the higher movement in the game and destroy every air unit.

[@alexstewart9592]

Slight correction. There is no if fog of war on subs. They can dive and hide even without fog of war.

[@alejandro_rodriguez_99]

@@alexstewart9592 that is why I say that every tile is like a forest in FOW. I should have said, even if it isn't FOW.

[@MrMarinus18]

I think they should introduce a frigate that is like a tank at sea. Direct attack only but being able to attack sea units, helicopters and land units. Meanwhile the "cruiser" should be renamed to destroyer. Give them a significant resistance against air attacks and torpedo's and make them even more devastating against those units. Give them like 125% against battlecopters and 91% against subs. Also 102% and 105% against bombers and fighters respectably. To me to frigate really feels like the thing that's missing. A baseline unit that is cheap and very easy to find a use for. Like the tank is for land units and the battlecopter for air units.

[@alejandro_rodriguez_99]

@@MrMarinus18 those balance changes are basically what they did to cruisers in DoR, where battleships (less cost and power, but they can move and attack in the same turn) are viable and cruisers protect them because without an enemy CO Zone it can destroy every air unit now it has 5 vision in FOW and 95% to submarines, so half the time they destroy it.

[@MrMarinus18]

@@alejandro_rodriguez_99 Yeah, DoR took a lot of steps in the right direction. Cruisers (destroyers) now are more like the AA of land and are not strictly worse. But the damage they do to other ships is very low so they remain mostly a sub/air specialist just like how AA are a soldier/air specialist. I actually think they are good as they are. They just need a name change to destroyer. But I still think having a cheap surface-surface ship in the frigate would be good and having a proper cruiser to kind of go inbetween the frigate and the battleship would round things out.

[@monsterchief117]

I've had games among friends where I'd utilize the transport for both surprise b.copter attacks and HQ captures. People seldom target cruisers because they really can't be one shot killed and aren't really seen as high priority targets. Of course, these things are very situational and risky to do. I like the idea of them being utility units that open a lot of options for players. Maybe combine them with black boat abilities? I don't see why they can't transport infantry and resupply.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think the Cruiser being able to fire on shoreline units (maybe also travel on shoals, I dunno about that one), combined with an across the board durability increase would go a long way. It has a similar problem to the Missile, I feel, where it's a specialist that literally can't do anything if its area of focus isn't called for. Giving it something it can actually do on a turn where there isn't an air unit hovering above the water, even if it's just shooting a tank for 40% or something or finishing off that Infantry blocking the way, would go a long way to making the unit feel less useless. The defense increase to everything except, say, Battleships, both protects your investment in the cruiser from being lost to a 6000 dollar artillery shell, and pushes more towards naval combat as a whole; where Cruisers, Subs, and Battleships have their own good relationship going, and it's a front that needs to be dealt with, since Battleships and Cruisers will pummel the coastline. Also, I said uo the defenses as a whole, but shore up that damn Battle Copter matchup, 5% is all they should take. Battle Copters need a knee broken. Hell, Battleships should be able to shoot them down, and Subs should get an anti-copter missile. Make Battle Copters fear the water. Also, frankly, Infantry should be able to load into Cruisers, too. They already can with extra steps.

[@MaquinaRara1]

In DoR they received a mayor buff First they cost "only "1600g so they are a little easier to build The attack on subs in normal seas are 95% so its a coin toss of killing it or crippling it, and the counter attack received is almost none. Their defense were massively buffed, almost on par with the battleship if they happen to be attacked by ground units, other cruisers will take a long time to take each other down (whis is inefficient in fund terms) copters and seaplanes cannot engage healthy cruisers, the only things that can damage cruisers well are indirects, bombers and gunboats. Most importantly they now have a vision in FoW of 5, this is huge as you can use then to scout enemy units to either use it to take them down or use them to support other units (the incredibly scary battleship from DoR comes to mind) Also the enviroment of the seas have dramatically changed, first subs comes out of ports hidden, which means that you have one less turn to attack them, so this buff to subs means that cruisers are a must to build (and they are more cost efficient in those engagements) Then there are two new units, aircraft carriers and gunboats, the former an extremelly expensive unit that can build planes in an airportless map but they are prey to subs, which means that cruiser escorts are mandatory, and for the later they counter each other, gunboats are very cheap, move faster, and have an attack higher than an cruiser vs boats, but have very low defenses and only one shot...also they can carry infantry. So for this engagement who ever hits first, wins in terms of funds. And lastly there are 2 more sea tiles types, mist and rough seas, mist is like a reef that hides units within, but provides less defense while easier to navigate, and the rough seas provide little defense, but are harder to navigate. These changes affect the cruiser performance directly.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

While it might be nice to update their damage numbers to DoR levels, I'd actually give them a more unique buff in giving their missiles an additional range, letting those target land units, and letting the unit itself fire after moving like DoR battleships (flak cannon still 1 range). Make them like fast, agile, cheaper mini-battleships that can deal with air units and zone out units from coastal bases/cities/ports.

[@MrAsaqe]

Also loading clown copters means you have a huge bang for buck carrier. Either take two battle copters to pick off land units that isn't a Missile or two transports loaded with Mechs and drop off 2 mechs for the mother of all surprise captures as you

[@jessepatten6502]

Really strange how subs don't have reduced vision when submerged, considering that, irl sighting with a periscope is a lot harder than if you're surfaced

[@EdKolis]

Maybe they're using their radar?

[@arcturus64]

Those AWesome vids keep popping! Keep up the good work mate! I always thought the Cruiser was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive costing twice the cost of a BCopter while being almost shut down when getting first striked by a Bcopter.

[@BusterBuizel]

I wish AW had more naval warfare elements. We already had gunboats in Ruin/Dark Conflict but things like destroyers, corvettes, and frigates would have been great to see. Here’s how it should be: Gunboat: Recon of the sea but can also transport 1 Infantry like DoR/DC Corvette: Tank of the sea, cheapish to build but can attack both sea and air targets Frigate: Md Tank of the sea, upgraded version of the corvette Aegis Destroyer: Anti Air of the sea, has both missiles and AA guns. Vulnerable to every ship That way Cruisers can still retain their anti sub role and give naval warfare more flavor

[@caellanmurphy4751]

gunboat was also a powerful menace as it dealt 40% to a majority of ships. despite only having 1 ammo this meant if they could strike they did pay for themselves. though they were also relativly fragile that alot of ships could in turn 1 shot them

[@ElementZephyr]

The Cruiser would have to be updated alongside a much larger air/naval overhaul or expansion. But basically this is my take: The Cruiser is an Primary Indirect Naval unit that attacks Naval/Air units with its missile system at 3-5 range (same as a Rocket) and can move and then fire (like Days of Ruin). It has a secondary gun for attacking Land/Naval and Air units but this is meant for self defense, though smaller land units like the Tank or Recon will be decimated. The Cruiser like all naval units is extremely resilient to attacks by land units. Battle Copters can do more damage but it's not cost effective to attack cruisers with B-copters. Bombers still give it trouble but ideally the Bomber wants to avoid attacking Cruisers as the cruiser can deal significant damage back in the counter attack. Cruisers have 5 vision like Recons. Then we have the Destroyer, which is the direct fire counterpart to the cruiser and costs a little less at 16000 funds. The Destroyer is a dedicated direct fire anti-naval and anti-submarine unit that attacks land/naval units with an automatic cannon and submarines with depth charges. It can attack submerged subs as well. The Destroyer is basically the Medium/Neo Tank of the seas. Destroyers have 3 vision so a sub can still technically slip past it. Misc overhaul changes: Next we have the Frigate which is essentially a tank and an AA gun unit packed into a ship. It can also capture Oil Rigs and Seaports. Oil Rigs can only be placed at sea. Both Oil Rigs and Seaports grant 2000 funds per turn. Battleships are buffed to have 30-50% more damage than Rockets, a significant health buff, and like Cruisers can move and then fire on the same turn. Aircraft Carriers to justify their cost have 7 vision, 2-8 AA range, can move and then fire on the same turn, can refuel any adjacent air unit (unchanged), can carry any two Non-Bomber air units, have an immense amount of health and armor to soak up punishment, and can see stealthed Stealth Fighters. You need multiple subs or destroyers or battleships to bring a carrier down in a reasonable timeframe and it's unacceptable to try using air or land units.

[@LeafhopperV]

Been playing these games for 20 years and I either forgot or never knew about the garrisoning of copters onto crusiers. Knew about the unused animation though. Man that actually is kinda handy.

[@SomeGuy712x]

(11:45) I could've sworn I've seen an allied CPU load a copter onto my Cruiser one time in the past in one of the games (either AW1, AW2, or AWDS-- I forget which), and I was bewildered as to how that was possible. I remember then being able to unload that copter elsewhere when my next turn came around. Perhaps loading a copter onto an allied Cruiser is something that only the CPU can do. And, maybe it was an intended mechanic for the player as well, but wasn't properly implemented. Or, it might just be an oversight in the code. (13:09) Heh, Andy's probably asking what an airport is again.

[@joshuaturner4602]

First off we change its name to Destroyer, (the cruisers mission profile of attacking submarines and aircraft more closely matches to the idea of an escort destroyer rather than a cruiser). The price gets lowered a little bit (maybe down to 12k from 18k) it gains a range of 1-3 (an indirect that can shoot adjacent to itself) and can shoot all naval units not just subs.

[@DrMills-ec4by]

If I had to balance them, I'd do this: - Buff it's defences against land units and battle copters - Allow it to fire directly on ground units with the anti air cannon - Lower the price by 2000 Basically it would be hard countered by battleships and bombers while being able to trash subs and air units. Also it would be fun to be able to ambush light armoured land units too with the cannon acting like an unlimited use anti air

[@tumbleweedanimations]

So close to 100k subs, you can do it, Mangs!

[@andrewlesniak8018]

Short of a cost revision, I would want to see Cruisers get a significant upgrade to their survivability vs air units, as well as increased firepower to that degree. They should at least be able to tangle with battle copters as well as anti-air, and it would be nice if they did decent return damage to bombers when attacked at full health.

[@damd9185]

Days of Ruin pretty much did that plus some other buffs to the cruisers.

[@qwertygutierrez1293]

They basically did in dor

[@MrMarinus18]

DoR pretty much did exactly that though they should have renamed them to destroyers since that's what they really are.

[@ZorotheGallade]

"This unit can only attack one singular type of naval unit, and also all air units." "So it's a good counter to bombers, right?" "..." "...it counters bombers, right...?"

[@generalbitter6660]

I enjoy both Fe and Aw and I am happy to see more AW Content on the Channel.

[@joejaboy]

I'm pretty sure Days of Ruin reduced the price of cruisers to 16000 (2000 discount from AW 1,2,DS). However, they were also vastly increased in power compared to AW1, 2, and DS. They basically became the tanks/anti-air of naval units; they do pretty decent damage to ships and they were also very strong against air units. Subs are also absolutely useless against cruisers. Cruisers basically got upgraded to "destroyers" in DoR in addition to the price reduction that all naval units got.

[@dragonknight4231]

Crazy idea: give Cruisers the ability to set down Naval Mines that trap (halts movement for that turn on that square) and deals damage to naval units that cross over them. I just thought this would be interesting and new.

[@octopus_rex]

Cool series 😎 Kind of interested to see an episode on Mechs of all things.

[@Nightmare_52]

i still think its really strange that the cruisers gun has no firing sounds

[@jeffreychinn609]

The AA one? DoR cruisers have them and it’s a sound to fear if an air unit gets attacked by that hahaha

[@h1tsc4n40]

Yeah, cause i am quite sure that naval was kinda just rushed in, meaning it's likely incomplete.

[@TheLolgrim]

I suppose one thing you could do, other than a cost reduction to the cruiser, would be to make it more like a floating missles. Have the main missles weapon work at range for air only, and keep it that it has to use the missles for anti-sub at direct (and if they are attacked directly by an air unit they still use the secondary?). This could allow you to more easily get first strikes on tougher air units but it shares the same ammo pool for sub hunting (which maybe you could increase by 1 or 2 if you wanted). I think you mentioned at one part that in Dual Strike they can hit more units with their cannon? Maybe add that too for chip damage.

[@Teknanam]

Dual Strike cruisers can use their anti-sub rockets on other naval units. the cannon is still reserved for anti-air. The cannon being used on ground units is a scrapped ability in AW2 that never properly showed up in any other game.

[@jakethadley]

It's always been bizarre watching a cruiser shoot at a surfaced sub, but being unable to do so against battleships/Landers/other cruisers! I reckon add that in, and make it's AA a 1-3 range (like artillery, but without the deadzone so it can still get counter-attacked up close) and it'd be fine.

[@LeoMidori]

Isn't it though? It'd make perfect sense if they were depth charges, but they're not.

[@MythrilZenith]

Seeing the regular AW cruiser is really weird after getting used to the Days of Ruin cruiser. AW cruisers can shoot air but suck at it, can shoot boats but suck at it, can shoot subs and are pretty good at it, and get wrecked by everything else. DoR cruisers can shoot air and are pretty good at it, can shoot boats and are mediocre at best, can shoot subs and are pretty good at it, and feel like they don't die to anything you throw at them. They still aren't good to mass because of their mediocre firepower, but if your opponent has a bunch of cruisers on a water-heavy map in DoR you are in for a slow slog as they grind the map to a halt and force out battleships. Not even bombers or seaplanes deal with cruisers very effectively.

[@its2three4]

If the cruiser could fire its missiles at like artillery range against air and subs (but not up close) and could fire it's AA gun at 1 square range at air, land, and sea units it would be pretty interesting imo. Obviously the missiles at range would have to have their damage values decreased but it would give the cruiser some limited efficacy against air units that was otherwise missing (and still is to some extent even with the aircraft carrier being a thing).

[@M30W3R]

Dual Strike's Cruisers were pretty balanced, to be honest I kinda agree that Naval Units need to be slightly lower in price (but Black Boats seriously need to be bumped up to 8000 for just how useful they end up being). I recall some very old forum posts on an Advance Wars bulletin board with some concept art with a Hovercraft type of unit that would work like a naval tank as well as a much slower unit when on land (think Tyre movement) and that would have surely made naval combat much more engaging. I also think that the amount of tiles that naval units get to traverse is just risible. I can get why only Landers and Black Boats can move on shoals, and I get why the devs don't want you to park them on a bridge tile, but they could have at least made it so that small naval units could cross rivers and at least pass through (not stay onto) bridge tiles. IMO the cost isn't as big of a deal than the fact that you can only use naval units on a very limited pool (haha puns) of tiles, which kills their usefulness.

[@GoaFan77]

I know you say this series is focused on Advanced Wars 1+2, but for a unit analysis I think it would be good to really cover all the games. In addition to the buffs you mentioned in Dual Strike, I know by Days of Ruins the cruiser's vision was increased to 5 (not sure if that was actually DoR or DS). At the very least including the stat cards from all 4 games would be good. :)

[@junkszy912]

In days of ruin if a b copter attacks a full health cruiser the cruiser will one shot the b copter leveling which counter the damage penalty from the one HP lost.

[@petergriscom3431]

I actually didn't know that turning Powers off also turns off the day-to-day stuff.

[@Hone_mor2525]

POV: You're winning the match and don't know what to spend your funds on

[@bienhy5120]

in DoR actually cruiser is a beast on naval vs air unit. any airplane vs cruiser even on first strike is kinda equal aw2 B copter vs cruiser and ofc cruiser demolish all air unit on first strike as well

[@Simpleborrego]

I think they should be able to attack some land units

[@anzyroadside2374]

I would love it if naval units had an actual indirect attack vs air units. As in having the cruiser primary attack behave like how battleships attack in Days of Ruin but only against air units.

[@hennyzhi2261]

I'd personally like them to not only be 9000 funds in cost (or roundabout there), but have them be able to attack land units with maybe half the range of battleships with about the same potential as an artillery. The downside is that the ammo the unit uses is specific to each scenario and thus limited to those uses. You get the majority (lets say 5 volleys of flak gun for now) for anti-air engagements. And then you get 3 clusters of anti-sub deathcharges (subs only) and 3 mounted artillery barrages (land units and naval only) (the descriptions are just flavor text, but equate to 1 action, so 5 is 5, 3 is 3). The problem with naval units is that they lack that cheap combat unit that forces certain changes in a fight the same way a battle copter does. In response to this buff it should also be easier to push out battleships maybe at half cost as well since they hard counter unless you buy subs which I think are fine as is. But I think limiting specific ammo would help the most - even making the choice of using cruiser support rely on the risk of spending more funds into black boats that might linger on transporting infantry to help the naval front resupply those rounds.

[@hennyzhi2261]

*Addendum: submarine price would also need to drastically differ if the prices of naval units went down for cruisers and battleships. All of them would most likely, but I think it wouldn't be controversial to just have them mimic the air unit rates mostly the same.

[@Panzergraf]

Custom CO idea: Yellow Comet naval aviation commander: good naval and air units, terrible ground units.

[@soolop9000]

Maybe if the cruiser had a ranged attack, like the missle of the sea, perhapse similar to the battleships or rocket range. It should be a ship to scan and shield other ships. better air-durability or at least better counter attacks, lower cost (otherwise why sheild more expensive ships). Its biggest nerf is being locked to seas, why not turn this into its strength, rule the seas and make air units fear reefs and sea instead of a easy way to cross or get access to land units.

[@theicycharmander3324]

In Dual Strike they introduced the carriers, which are indirect anti air naval units with 3-8 range. Their price is 30k, and I have no idea why.

[@soolop9000]

@@theicycharmander3324 imagine saving 30k for a missle stuck in the sea

[@Andrewlik]

Random idea: Give them a range of 1-2, ability to damage other ships a decent amount, and give them slightly less than artillery worth of damage against land units

[@Nirual86]

having a direct attack against other ships (and maybe ground units) while having a ranged anti-air weapon would be an interesting mix.

[@Nirual86]

@@theicycharmander3324 they also have the ability to carry two air units (like the cruiser, but for all air units), hence the name. Of course, if you can't get air units (or don't want to use them like Drake) that was pretty useless, which is why they changed them to build their own aircraft in Days of Ruin (but removed the ranged anti-air capacity for some reason)

[@antiradiationsnowy1536]

I think the main reason naval units are unimportant, besides the cost, is that they are almost completely separate from the ground forces. No ship can attack ground except the battleship. So I would allow cruisers to use their anti-air gun against ground forces, also I would give them more damage and defense against air. And every ship should be able to cross shoals, maybe even rivers.

[@user-dv4dr2dc9x]

I have to rewatch this video every few months to remind myself the purpose of cruisers.

[@Ultima2343]

And the mystery of the sixth cruiser missile remains unsolved. Until another time, perhaps...

[@merabledawnspark5827]

Well, not related fact, but in DoR when you mentioned helping allies, you can’t do that with the cruisers. Cities and ports, however, you can get your stuff repaired there as suppose to just your properties

[@DBinitiate]

Another thing that I think the Cruiser lacks in order to be an effective Anti-Air unit is a good vision range. 3-range vision is good, but it's not very far compared to how far they can move, so you generally need to have other units scout for them. If they have the 5-range vision that they had in Super Famicom Wars, a Cruiser could very effectively find and strike Fighters or Copters, as well as being better at keeping away from Battleships.

[@ajsmotolife5641]

Wargroove made a big improvement over Cruisers with the Harpoon ship. Much more useful and way cheaper too. Actually all of the naval units are more appropriately priced.

[@Kageryushin]

I think cruisers would be perfect if you just -took Days of Ruin cruisers (which are buffed all around), -let their attacks target land units (although they don't necessarily need to do devastating damage to everything like a battleship can, just around the ballpark of typical anti-air damage with maybe 1 more point of damage to tanks/vehicles), -gave their attacks two range (they can't enter beach tiles, so they need the range to be consistently effective and act as more of a threat to air units, but they shouldn't have the huge range of the battleship), -and let them attack indirectly the same turn they move (which would make instant indirect attacks a neat navy-specific feature that'd further justify naval combat while reflecting its real-life strategic strengths). I think Days of Ruin did a lot to make naval combat feel much more enjoyable and worth the effort, but then again, its campaign also emphasized naval missions much more often than any game before it. Even then, while naval combat feels a lot better as a whole, it still could've gone a little bit further in terms of interweaving naval combat with land combat, and I think making carriers relevant in this fashion would go a long way to improving naval combat as a worthwhile investment.

[@jadekaiser7840]

They really, really do not need to do more than what they did in Days of Ruin to buff cruisers. They went absolutely ham with those buffs, and most of your ideas would just make them overpowered. Especially since DoR also did cut their cost to 16k. The only one I would maybe add would be directly attacking land units on the shoreline. I do think that could be pretty neat. Might still be a bit much though; DoR naval is already very strong, and the fact that the most expensive Battleships and (via seaplanes) carriers are the only ways for it to extend its heavy fist onto land is one of the few things keeping it semi-balanced.

[@Alex-gl8li]

Could you do some Dual Strick Unit ? I find a lot of them interesting, like the furtif or the Carrier that are really interesting.

[@NerdySatyr]

Otherwise, Stealth Fighter would be an interesting one to cover I feel.

[@nitorishogiplayer3465]

Stealth Fighter is kinda a weird air submarine in my opinion and seems to have its roots in the super Famicom wars assault fighter. The ability for it to cloak itself feels a bit odd considering I don't think the units use radar to see others and makes it seem like an afterthought of making an air sub, so I like that they replaced them with seaplanes in DoR.

[@NorthernWind0]

I think giving it the ability to crush battle copters like no one's business would be nice. Also a secondary gun that lets them 'shell' stuff on land would be fine for the price, Anti-Air tier would be good enough, but if you wanna get kooky about it, you should give them +1 range with no minimum range. Just let them shell things up close or at a distance, like a Fire Emblem mage. (and a real world cruiser, given their deckguns fire like 12 kilometers.)

[@alecciarosewater7438]

Well if there was a "gunboat" unit that cruisers could fire on and if you could use said gunboat to search for submarines then the cruiser would be somewhat more useful Another way to buff the cruiser is for the weapons to have a range of 1-3 so it can better engage bombers and hit ground units like a lesser battleship

[@Zetact_]

I think the Cruiser is a bit weak because it's strictly a reactionary unit. It's by necessity, though. It fills out the RPS of the Battleship-Sub-Cruiser dynamic, since if Cruisers didn't exist then Subs would have free reign over the waters and if Subs didn't exist then Battleships would arguably be too strong (even if they're so expensive). Its Anti-Air capabilities don't really change that since even in the best case scenario they're only covering parts of the map that are covered in water, where you won't usually want your air units running around anyway. The biggest buff, outside of the usual "make naval units cheaper" buff would be if the Cruiser could do more damage to boats so you could use it to threaten them. This was a change in Dual Strike but still not significant enough to make it really worthwhile to take potshots at boats if they ran into your Cruiser's range.

[@butteredsalmonella]

My favorite niche about Cruisers is that it can attack Fighters without risk of counterattacks. Fighters are still more valuable but in a map where Fighters can't be restored (For example, Sea Fortress HC) this niche proves to be really significant.

[@dragmire3D]

At current price, I'd say increase the movement range to be equal to fighters. Alternatively, give them a ranged attack of 3 vs air units.