Advice for Discerning While Struggling with Same-Sex Attraction w/ Sr. Natalia

This video was taken from Pints with Aquinas episode #208: • Why Sr. Natalia Became...
Can you become a nun if you're attracted to the same sex? Can you drink coffee if you're a nun?
Sr. Natalia answers these questions and more during this short clip.
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[@gracetheskunk9191]

I'm a college age woman attracted to the same sex. I've been feeling very lost lately, with no clue as to where God is calling me, and how I am to overcome my struggles with purity. I am not specifically discerning religious life, but Sister's words make me want to find a spiritual director, I am just terrified to go through the process of finding one. Pray for me all you good listeners of Matt Fradd.

[@bman5257]

I will. Be not afraid, and stay strong.

[@rdbare4216]

I’m not in a similar situation but I do care. Many do. Perhaps you should look into the work of Seraphim Rose.

[@tryhardf844]

You should not be afraid.Even as a skunk. Christ is always there for the fearfull and uncertain. But it depends,how badly do you want purity? Compuction,is piercing the heart daily of guilt and understanding of where you are in your spiritual life. Commit daily to that intimacy with Christ through the holy rosary. We all should do it,search for St Ines,a woman that was shamed by the men of her era because she wanted to live as a single woman. God bless you,let me know if you have any doubts.

[@brianfernandez71]

Get spiritual director! A holy one! It’s totally cool! Kick up your prayer life! Your not the first or the last. I love your honesty, peace!

[@carissahanson9887]

Grace The Skunk College times can also be confusing so just relax and take a step back

[@orderofeden8599]

i think the more public conversations you have with monks and nuns- the better off the world will be for it, lol.

[@eileen1820]

She is so, so pretty. I'm loving her presence on Matt's show. Bright and thoughtful.

[@sageseraph5035]

My thoughts exactly.

[@teresahannasch3420]

For the record, people with SSA are not necessarily homosexual. Bisexuality and pansexuality are also ways that people can experience SSA. You can be a catholic who is attracted to both men and women and choose to only date your opposite sex. SSA does not necessarily entail a celibate vocation if one is also attracted to the opposite sex. Lots of Catholics seem to forget that SSA is a broader term than gay.

[@michaelk969]

Informed Catholics do not use the world's terminology when it comes to issues such as sexuality primarily because those terms are loaded with meaning; most of which involve concepts we do not accept. For example, "sexual orientation" implies that there are two equally valid (moral) alternatives for expressing one's sexuality and that homosexual attraction is an immutable characteristic of the person. The Church does not agree with this. You want to use a definition of SSA which includes homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality as subcategories but Catholics don't necessarily accept this, in part, because pansexuality is based on the fiction that there are more than two genders. There are only two genders not fifty-eight. Generally, most orthodox Catholics regard SSA as synonymous with homosexuality and bisexuality is a different category entirely. We'll stick with that definition, thank you. We also don't use the term "gay" because we don't agree with its loaded meaning which is an indoctrination term invented by the unchaste homosexual lobby. There is nothing gay about having SSA or living the "gay lifestyle".

[@JD-mr3uf]

Actually the Church has declared that people with SSA should not enter religious life. Religiosorum Institutio (which can be found online and EWTN) says in unit 30 part 4 says, “Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.”

[@ToxicPea]

To simplify, the answer is yes, but your devotion and intimacy to God must be greater than that of your attractions. This can be achieved through deepening prayer life, getting help from your spiritual director, and asking the community (monastery) to help you discern your vocation. To any discerning young woman who watches this video, I pray that you may be able to truly walk the vocation that God desires of you to take with love.

[@ToxicPea]

@@MsHopeH sorry if I wasn't being clear. That's exactly what I meant by love for God being greater than ones attractions. In loving God, one must forgo his/her attractions to be celibate.

[@rdbare4216]

L GH They May not own up to it but I think there’s been a long tradition of homosexual priests, and also a number of priests who paid a “woman” tax for mistresses. I have my doubts this is the place for unvarnished truth. Research it.

[@ammcroft]

It reminds me of when people would tell gay men to be priests since they couldn't get married. Obviously that didn't turn out well. I thought I heard the Church say that the celibate single life was for people with same sex attraction. IDK

[@jmjaquinas7298]

I’ve struggled with this a great deal myself so I’ve researched it a fair amount. The Church has, of late, been pretty clear that men who struggle with SSA shouldn’t be admitted to holy orders, but there may be some room for men who no longer struggle with that. Generally consecrated celibacy in the context of a parish community appears to be the accepted vocation, but some men do recover to the extent they are able to have healthy holy marriages. I have heard quite clearly from Father’s Superior that men with SSA should never be admitted to a monastic community because of the temptations and potential danger. I imagine something similar is the case for women, but male and female homosexuality do have different iterations so it may not correlate exactly

[@johnrankin6040]

@@jmjaquinas7298 Could you share some of what you read reguarding the Church teaching that men with SSA should not be ordained or enter monastic life?

[@KR-ms6km]

@@jmjaquinas7298 The only question is, how honest you live your life of celibacy. As a SSA person AND as a hererosexual person. If Christ is your center, each form of celibate life can be lived out in a worthy way.

[@jmjaquinas7298]

@@johnrankin6040 Hey sorry I missed this. I’m not sure where I read it but there were several documents, I believe from the CDF, one was decades ago, maybe the ‘70s? and then the mid-2000s it was reiterated. Pope Francis said something similar to the Italian bishops a few years ago as well, interestingly enough. I would highly recommend “The Pastoral Letter on the Care of Homosexual Persons” which was directed specifically at the American Church (and therefore written originally in English) That’s probably not very in depth but I hope it helps a little Pax!

[@TheMrLappis]

Matt. I'm a big fan. I was one of those ignorant pricks who commented on you interrupting your guests all the time and not letting them speak. First of all, I'd like to apologize for that., I could've conveyed my thoughts in a much healthier way. Secondly, I'm REALLY impressed by how you changed and improved. I can see how difficult it is for you. Just from another angle, your interviews are a lot better in my opinion, and I can actually listen and enjoy them now. Thank you for being awesome. God bless you, Matt.

[@KR-ms6km]

Consecrated life in communities/ orders/ cloisters is ALWAYS about living celibacy. Therefore it is not important, whether you are same sex attracted or have a heterosexual attraction. Celibacy is and remains clear through religious vows, eaqually for all forms of sexual orientation which you might find on this planet. The only thing that counts is, that the space in your heart and soul is not reserved for a human to be loved exclusively. It remains empty for God. The quality of consecration is not dependent on any form of attraction which might be lived out, because you explicitelly don't live it out bodily in an exclusive relationship, but give your Self to to Christ. You will hopefully experience, breath and spread HIS love.

[@KR-ms6km]

@Qwerty, maybe most people have a special, judgemental look on SSA in celibate life styles. The others (non SSA) use to fail as well in celibate life, but the destructive dynamic between men and women, brothers and sisters, priests and sisters in communities remain hidden in most times, because quite often they develope in state of dependence. Failures between men and women seem to be more accepted as "healthy" than failures from SSA persons - as in secular society. It is just my personal impression as a vowed person from within the system of consecrated life.

[@michaelk969]

Sorry, but your reasoning is flawed. Certainly it is true that consecrated religious must live a life of celibacy regardless of whether they are SSA or non-SSA. But the language of the world that you are using, "sexual orientation", glosses over the fact that homosexual attraction is a disordered inclination whereas heterosexual attraction is a normal (natural) inclination. Homosexuals have more difficulty remaining chaste because they are starting from a disordered state. No person is perfect and the effect of even a brief lapse in chastity for a SSA nun with another nun is going to have a devastating effect on the order. If a non-SSA nun has a brief lapse in chastity with a man, the effect would not be nearly as devastating to the Church.

[@Spectrometer]

In the case for religious Priesthood, the CDF has already decided this: " In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture"." Of course, that would not bar mild-bisexual persons to the Priesthood, and "deep-seated homosexual" persons can still be called to some form of Consecrated Lay Vocation.

[@timebank1949]

This sounds like a very big danger for the soul when someone with same sex attraction lives together with people of the same sex. This person would live in constant temptation. The Church says clearly and explicitly that one should not voluntarily be tempted. Otherwise, a man and a woman might as well live in the same apartment (without hesitation). EDIT: A person with same sex attraction might be a consecrated virgin and live as a layperson.

[@sageseraph5035]

There’s a typo in the title, Matt.

[@gguer]

Regarding questions around Church Tradition on the treatment of SSA candidates to the priesthood, see p 199ss. of “The Gift of the Priestly Vocation, Ratio Fundamentalis Institutionis Sacerdotalis” Here it is stated: In relation to persons with homosexual tendencies who seek admission to Seminary, or discover such a situation in the course of formation, consistent with her own Magisterium , “the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called ‘gay culture’. Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies”. The next points go on to say that these tendencies need to be overcome before ordination and that sincerity and openness about these are fundamental from the candidate and from their formators. The document can be a vague as to what constitutes ‘deep-seated tendencies’ (apart from more clear statements on those who actively practice homosexuality or support the gay culture) , but my understanding is that this does not automatically disqualify SSA candidates from Holy Orders, but those whose tendencies are so strong they cannot healthily integrare them into their overall personality and ‘sublimate’ these traits onto fruitful behaviours. And perhaps this need to seen case-by-case from qualified and wise formators along one candidates journey. With regards to women, it is bound to be different and here I think it’s also a community by community case - unless official statements have been published - on how they feel qualified to journey with someone to understand if they can adapt and thrive in a religious environment.

[@xiomaraporta-blanco4892]

No please! Avoid occasion at all cost🙏

[@murrax7639]

Matt, you've gotta change the thumbnail. Why in the world would good Catholics who suffer from same-sex attraction want to be associated with the rainbow flag? For their sake, change it

[@gavasiarobinssson5108]

Whatever the lgbtqxxz activists think the rainbow is God's symbol, not theirs.

[@alecrosewell6959]

@@gavasiarobinssson5108 no it was created long time ago the rainbow colours, the colours signified different things. but the rainbow is beautiful indeed

[@rdbare4216]

I love rainbows and hate that I cannot enjoy them or wear them without being identified with some thing I’m not a part of.

[@blixsnix792]

My guess is that this could attract non-Catholic viewers if the algorithms work Iike that.

[@amarachibertilia6020]

I wonder how her giving up coffee for lent would put an additional penance on her sisters.

[@telephonebear21]

It's a self deprecating joke, she's saying it would make her cranky and less pleasant to be around.

[@amarachibertilia6020]

@@telephonebear21 Oh okay. Thanks.

[@tryhardf844]

I think that the problem with the lgbt community when it comes down to assertions of celibacy and prayer life is that the devotion to the holy rosary can be so powerfull that many people don't want to give up their sins. Practice compuction.😁

[@freewild421]

Totally 👍

[@mrsjackson9999]

Interestingly, in the documentary “century of self” they talk about how they used psychology to undermine women’s religious communities. Same sex attraction was a big part of the destruction of the communities. This is not a judgement.

[@jessiethomas1442]

But how do laity access a spiritual director?

[@melkam9917]

Whether you have a same-sex attraction or not everyone is called for chastity in consecreated life period.

[@mariemunzar6474]

Yes.....however if you do struggle with a same sex attraction that is going to be harder for you to deal with in a consecrated life......you will be surrounded by people of your same sex day in day out. That's part of the reason why monks and nuns live separately because most of us have a normal heterosexual orientation.

[@OrigenisAdamantios]

“How do you solve a problem like Maria?”

[@jessevilleable]

sound of music

[@josemateus8240]

A great video, thanks

[@annaelizabeth5471]

I've been told by some religious orders women with SSA are not welcome. :(

[@MikeyJMJ]

Nothing wrong with that. We've been plagued by scandals in the priesthood because of this.

[@Daniel_Abraham1099]

Woah a nun!

[@persephonestars2587]

If you are celibate it shouldn’t matter. Right?

[@MikeyJMJ]

Scandals everywhere in the priesthood because of those famous last words

[@alex67847]

For the person struggling with the same sex attraction, ask yourself if you want to worship God and love God above all. Because in essence, to be human is to love God as we are made in His image. Then realize, God loves you because he became man in the person of Jesus and paid the penalty of death that we deserved because of our sin. Through that act of love, we can be adopted as sons and daughters of God. There is no greater love than the love Jesus showed on the cross for you. We must repent or in other words, turn away from sin, change our mind about sin, and realize that God's ways are better! And then put our trust in the Lord Jesus and his work on the cross to save us because He was the perfect sacrifice, and we cannot fulfill the demands of the law perfectly. In other words, put your hope to be saved in the Savior rather than your own goodness. Then, because we don't have to earn His love, we obey Him and read His Word because His commandments are good and guide our steps! Meditate on the words of Jesus, the work of Jesus on the cross to save you, the love Jesus has for you. Jesus said while being tempted by Satan, that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. That is literally Scripture, the word of God, that feeds our spirit and empowers us to deny the flesh. The word of God empowered by the Holy Spirit. The flesh will seem appealing, and even seem right because it can be so emotional and moving and intimate. But put your trust in the one who has perfect love for you, who never fails you, and provides you with everything you need. He is the intimacy we all need because no created thing can fulfill our souls like the way our Lord does. God bless

[@samiqala6543]

I think the nun did not understand the second question Any way the answer to the first question according to quran the same sex attraction started in the people of the prophet lot pbuh and it started when men desires other men instead of women so from that the solution to the problem is simple just stop desiring the same sex or in other word stop thinking of being intimate with the same sex.

[@pedrolizama4993]

In the Latin Rite, the answer would be no.

[@PsychoBible]

An important thing to keep in mind: we shouldn't view lifelong celibacy as the default option for people with same-sex attraction struggles. It can seem that way when we preclude the possibility of change and growth. One thing Christopher West said in my Theology of the Body level 1 course was that the call to vocational celibacy is a sacrifice of desires one already has. But if one has no desires for marriage, is it really a sacrifice?

[@DanyTV79]

The Church discipline is clear about the case of SSA. That tendency is so strong that can turn completely against the good of the person, community or service. Please, be careful with those opinions.

[@paernoser871]

This nun is beautiful 😍

[@paernoser871]

@@supremeleadersmeagol6345 why are you so over sexualized that someone can't address the beauty of someone else without it being explicit?

[@k1iic_]

@@supremeleadersmeagol6345 simping? It was a compliment:/

[@josereyes-ortiz8661]

Matt this particular show was disappointing. The Catholic Church is very clear about its teaching on same sex attraction. It says if some is attracted to same sex, he/she is not suitable for priesthood or religious life. Do a bit of research.

[@MK-lw4pn]

PRESERVING THE QURAN: According to Ashia, when MO died. A whole chapter of the Quran containing verses about breastfeeding and stoning was under her bed and a goat ate it. Well, Muslim I thought in the Quran, God brought down the verses to MO and he promise to keep and preserve his words and what is written in the Quran. Meaning no one can change, misplace, corrupt OR EAT God's verses and words. What the hell, a whole chapter eaten by a goat, couldn't the God of Islam intervene immediatly to preserve that chapter that was eaten by a goat by sending a shooting star down to kill the goat, the same way the God of Islam uses shooting stars to keep Satan out of heaven (?). IF A GOAT WAS ABLE TO DESTROY THE GOD OF ISLAM AND MO'S WORDS AND VERSES, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU????????? DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE GOD OF ISLAM AND MO ARE INCAPABLE OF PRESERVING THE QURAN???

[@tasharijam]

Her opinion is her opinion, but it’s not really that exciting or even very loving. Though I do think being loving was the end goal here. Why does discernment with SSA seem so different? That was missing.

[@imakeepitreal7313]

nope

[@michaelk969]

It does not seem that the sister came up with a good answer, but maybe if she had more time to think about it she would have. In my opinion anyone discerning a religious vocation, male or female, should already be living a life of chastity; which requires constant prayer, frequent confession and reception of the Eucharist, and willing cooperation with the received graces. One might argue that if the woman has had significant success in chastity prior to entering the noviciate (virtually mastered chastity), then having a SSA may not be an impediment. If not, and she acts on her SSA temptations by seducing other co-religionists then it will turn the convent into Satan's playground. It will create a horrible mess that will destroy the sanctity of the convent if not immediately quashed.Ultimately, I think the risks are too great and the Church should take a firm stand and say that having SSA is a disqualifying factor. We may also consider what the effect of being attracted to other females will have on their relationship to their spouse, who is Christ. If that SSA is not resolved beforehand it will create havoc in her life. This would be similar to a woman who married one man but still had an attraction, infatuation or love of another man. It is likely to end badly. I can tell you that during the 1960's there were significant numbers of lesbians and women with man-ish behavior that I experienced as a child being taught by nuns. The stark contrast between a kind, feminine "straight" nun and the lesbian nuns was very noticeable even to a child. The SSA nuns were not good and holy nuns from what I could see and many if not most fell into active lesbianism and radical feminism. In fact, radical feminism was the most reliable indicator that the nun was a lesbian; but it was not definitive. Radical feminism in the female religious orders spread quickly to even non SSA nuns in the 1960's and 1970's and this infection was a significant cause of the abandonment of vocations in that time period. Female religious orders were decimated in this period. From the point of view of the effect on the Church at large, unchaste SSA nuns are a great risk to the spiritual health of the Church. I don't think I need to describe the effect on the Church of male homosexuals in the priesthood. Even the ones that are chaste do not know how to be spiritual fathers because their sense of masculinity is flawed. You must have a masculine sense of yourself to be an effective spiritual father.

[@annaholley2885]

❤️❤️❤️

[@generalquoti3304]

I hope Matt loses the beard. We miss his smile.

[@MrChaosAdam]

Stop giving the man bad ideas. He looks amazing with a beard.

[@mrvaas876]

Be ex-gay first

[@achilleus9918]

or, you can accept yourself, as you are (as God made you), and ignore these people who want you to change due to misinformed and theologically-nonsensical bigotry. you are perfectly ok as you are, regardless of your sexuality

[@buckarooben7635]

Why the “Or?”

[@achilleus9918]

@@buckarooben7635 because my comment is an alternative to the homophobic suggestions made in the video and (even more so) in the comment section.

[@buckarooben7635]

@achilleus9918 you will need to better explain your rationale regarding how anything stated in this video was homophobic. Sister just stated what she’d recommend for any woman discerning becoming a nun.

[@achilleus9918]

@@buckarooben7635 well we can start with the title - gay people don't "struggle with same sex attraction", that's terminology used intentionally to pathologize being gay/bi/etc and to separate one's sexual and romantic orientation from one's identity, as if it's a bad thing to be lgbt+. as for the rest, the entire premise of the video is that being lgbt+ is a bad/sinful thing that one must overcome in order to do right by god. it doesn't matter how polite and friendly she comes across, she's already presuming that gay people are sinners, which is absurd and inhumane. anyway, i'm not going to argue with you further. the purpose of my comment wasn't to bait argumentative christians, but rather to demonstrate to other lgbt+ people watching this video that not everyone is against them, they're not broken or wrong, and there is hope. the rest of the lgbt+ community, and in my experience the vast majority of decent people of all faiths and none, will accept them with open arms.

[@buckarooben7635]

@achilleus9918 “Separate one's sexual and romantic orientation from one's identity” Yes it does do that, but why would that be the immoral thing to do? If anything I’d say it more humanizing to look past someone’s sexual orientation and see them for who they are, rather than label them as “gay” as if that’s all they are, or ever shall be. I see that as an incredibly unloving and dehumanizing way to look at someone. “She's already presuming that gay people are sinners” Yes. The exact same presumption we operate under for every human being. This presumption isn’t unique to those with SSA. We both know that the reason you stated you “won’t respond” is because you don’t believe that your stance will be able to hold its own under scrutiny. You are doing yourself a great disservice for shutting down rather than engaging in debate. By argument we can better discern the truth. The truth can hurt, but it ultimately sets us free.

[@jaimee8177]

to anyone who’s struggling with their sexuality: please don’t listen to these people. it’s not a sin and you don’t need to change. Nothing is inherently deviant about your sexuality, your desires for love, romance, and sex are just as pure straight people’s.

[@GuitarBloodlines]

incorrect

[@bruno-bnvm]

Sodomy is a sin stated in the bible

[@E.R.Hewitt]

The elephant in the room is that there's no such thing as SSA for women. Make homosexuality has been around for as long as there have been people. But female homosexuality is just a little older than the pill. I'm not saying women wouldn't struggle with SSA, that is certainly true, it's just not the same as SSA in men.

[@sageseraph5035]

Paul mentions female homosexuality in Romans 1.

[@SuperScarrow]

@@sageseraph5035 exactly. It says that a society is very fallen when women are in that state.

[@hopetikvah4906]

Have you ever heard of Sappho lol

[@ammcroft]

Hmmn. I have heard quite the contrary from Catholic converts. It is a REAL temptation. However, not as sexual as men probably, still VERY sexual.

[@gracetheskunk9191]

As a woman with SSA, I am very curious as to what you mean by, "There's no such thing as SSA for women" or the other claims you make. Would you mind elaborating on your opinion?