Ahsoka is a show that exists

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Schaff watches a fairly impressive Clone Wars fanfic.
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[@hawkward957]

“Old and jaded“ doesn’t need to be boring. Nobody would say that master Shifu is a boring character.

[@painstakeranimations9253]

W comment.

[@halowaffle25]

I know Schaff said using it as a comparison was unfair, but... Andor is literally right there, if you need an example of making old and jaded interesting.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

Or Luke Skywalker in TLJ. He was old and jaded, and yet he was still really interesting in that film. You wanted to know WHY he became that way. Well, I did.

[@voltron77]

@@TheRibottoStudiosNo he was shit, they destroyed his character. He was a boring dumbass loser in life that teaches nothing to Rey. He was just there to have the same character arc as in 4,5 and 6.

[@lonewolf9578]

@@TheRibottoStudioshe shouldn’t have been old and jaded, that’s the issue Disney and Lucasfilm can’t write older versions of existing characters any other way. Just look at Han, Luke and Indy. All are old, all left everything they cared about because of a tragedy and all are just really sad to watch how they handle these characters in favour of younger and less interesting replacements

[@WPB45]

I love how this channels term for mediocre is "a show that exists".

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯💯

[@MexicanDragon2000]

It has characters, a script and episodes.

[@ggt47]

​@@MexicanDragon2000It has "acting",it has "characters".

[@ceterisparabolas]

One of the shows of all time

[@ferhog7705]

Once upon a time it was "Painfully average", but I think after he realised Ralph Breaks the Internet was actually garbage he's been afraid to use the term ever since.

[@nunouno001]

This show has confirmed to me that Dave Filoni really is George Lucas’ successor. Because he is also someone who really needs a team of other creatives to help him develop his ideas and rein in his worst impulses.

[@ethanalspencer7294]

Spot on lmao

[@baconboi4482]

I feel like Dave filoni is worse than George, since at least George had a vision and kinda decent writing. Dave is just, bad

[@crunchysalmons]

bad writing (dialogue) and heavy storyboarding issues. yea pm just like george

[@fissilewhistle]

The quality of Filoni’s work is still a level above Lucas’s.

[@HolaMundoTheMisteriousAG]

Wait, so, are they the Hideo Kojima of Star Wars?

[@pithyginger6371]

I think the problem with Ahsoka was that Filoni wanted to write a Gandalf character but didn't fundamentally understand what constitutes a Gandalf character. I don't think you can have two wise-sage characters work with both Ahsoka and Huyang sharing lots of screen time. I don't blame Rosario Dawson for the wooden performance; I think Filoni actually wanted her to look pensive and wise even where was nothing to think about.

[@TheSleepiestPlurals]

hard agree there, it's clearly what was wanted of her, and we know she can be more energetic because of the other times she's played the character with way more personality. I think the whole thing is supposed to be an "homage" to a new hope so Filoni must have asked her to be like OG Obi Wan

[@def3ndr887]

Did she ever do a “YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!” In the show? bring joy to hobbit children by showing them fireworks, Resurrected by the gods of Middle Earth to save it, light the fires to signal to Rohan Gondor’s plea for help against tyranny?

[@uniqueness35fanofimginatio73]

@@def3ndr887Right? I don’t hate this show, but if Season 2 has to happen, then lean hard into the mysticism, the weird new creatures, the insane stuff that they can really have fun with. AND HAVE ROSARIO ACTUALLY SHOW SOME FUCKING PERSONALITY, ASSHOLES!!!

[@mrzirak792]

Filoni also can't write a Gandalf haracter because. . . . He isn't Tolkien, he isn't even George Lucas, no shit he can't write something that complex.

[@sclair2854]

@@def3ndr887 Filoni's talk about Ahsoka being Gandalf is in relation to her surviving Vader and coming back as 'Ahsoka the White'. So her "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" is her battle against Vader. Which honestly was quite peak for her.

[@gullyfeather4330]

This show suffers from the 'jedification' of Ahsoka. Making Ahsoka into a standard stoic Jedi massively kills a lot of her character appeal imo. And I wish so much that they actually explained what Baylans deal was, he was the most interesting part of the show that never got the time he deserved.

[@alpacawizardman6778]

Ooh, good point! I think that’s something the current Respawn games do right, by making Cal Kestis a rather unconventional Jedi but still trying to hold onto their core beliefs. May be too much to ask for, but I hope the New Jedi Order takes that approach.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

At least she does have in universe reasons for closing herself off from people and wanting nothing to do with attachments after seeing what her Master had become. That kind of thing can traumatize you. But at the same time, her pushing the no attachment thing on Din Djarin in BOBF made no sense cause it was HER OWN ATTACHMENT to Rex that allowed them both to survive Order 66.

[@cameronweaver2013]

You know, I'd say that's exactly how I feel too about her characterization here

[@Le-xy]

I agree with this so much, though she got better in the last few eps

[@domino_201]

Not to sound pretentious or gatekeepy, but it sounds like you don’t understand what a Jedi is Edit: neither do the writers I suppose

[@DorsenFilm]

The problem is that it isn’t an Ahsoka show. It’s a rebels sequel masquerading as an Ahsoka show. This show should have been animated. There is no doubt.

[@szabok1999]

And she was a minor side character in Rebels, sadly

[@chasehedges6775]

Exactly

[@chasehedges6775]

@@szabok1999💯💯👍

[@owlbert2020]

She should’ve been a side character like she was in Rebels and let Sabine be the star along with the rest of the Ghost crew

[@DorsenFilm]

@@owlbert2020 i disagree heavily. I hate Sabine. And Ezra. And Rebels.

[@jwroot]

You have no idea how crushingly disappointed I was to see Sabine and Ezra reunite after like 10 years. Earlier I thought it was gonna be emotional and heartwarming. And instead all I got was a "Hey, how's it going?" Dave, I don't believe that's how human beings are supposed to act.

[@kor6999]

Say what you will about the late seasons of GoT, the big Stark reunions you could see all the visible joy on their faces. Especially Arya/Jon

[@cliffysilver6612]

The thing is, that is exactly how Ezra would react, when did Ezra act like a regular person at all in Rebels

[@Yodalemos]

​@@kor6999Yeah, they were good actors.

[@DavidCendana]

Kenobi and Maul's reunion is more heartwarming than sabine and ezra's

[@Apac12]

Its so funny watching the people who clearly don't understand the characters come out of the wood works, that is exactly how sabine and ezra would act, you are not dave, they are not your characters, you can't use the "these characters wouldn't act like that" trope this time, these are dave's characters and he knows them.

[@hrzmann]

That show felt like episodes have to be 20 minutes long but were artifically extended by bad guys staring at maps silently and Ahsoka smirking silently.

[@UnfaithfulServant97]

And folding her arms silently

[@domino_201]

all just to drag the runtime out

[@aran9952]

Feels like they wrote the show, then Andor released and they saw everyone praise the slow approach that had so they just draged every scene out without earning it or properly understanding what it was about Andor that everyone loved.

[@hrzmann]

@@aran9952, nah, it's more like it has plot but they were in hustle and didn't write a proper script. Take a Mandalorian as an example: Mando comes to the castle of Bo Katan and she just sits there on here throne. She isn't reading, she isn't doing anything. At the point she's an NPC who's just there to give the main character a quest. Andor works because its world lives when camera isn't watching. For example, we have a witch character. I don't even remember her name because of how much of a cardboard she was, but it's not the point. Most of the time she's just staring at map and interfaces. How could we make her character witch-ier? 1. They show her in that golden room, but she has a golden chair, table and red evil-looking book with ancient symbols in it. She's reading. Dark jedi guy approaches her to talk. She closes the book and swipes around it with her finger, small green fire effect. They talk. He suddenly touches the book, casually trying to open. "It doesn't open" - he says. "Not all misteries of Dathomiri magic are to be revealed to you. Yet." - she answers and smirks. Now we see she's a witch, she's busy when we don't see her and she uses the force in a ways that aren't usual for the jedi. 2. They show her second time when they constructing the ring. She's not in a golden room this time, she's in a shuttle, inspecting the construction site with her own eyes. Dark jedi don't waste their time getting to her again, now they call her via hologram, in a middle of her talk to a guy who looks like an imperial engineer, not a droid. Once again she was busy when we didn't see her. 3. They come to another galaxy and see ancient statues on an empty planet with three witches on it. They could show us also ruins and some corpses turned into stone and who look like dathomirian, at least implying there was some sort of catastrophe because of which only three left, and they weren't just building statues in the middle of literal nowhere. It's just an example how they could make the series feel less empty using reasonable amount of resources. But it is empty. Characters do nothing when we don't see them.

[@bryanmanuelbaes7871]

@@aran9952 uhh no. Andor wasn't even available on D+ when Ahsoka was filming. Obi Wan Kenobi was the latest show at the time

[@georgieboat]

7:07 I watched this show with my dad and he went “so was he standing on a statue of himself? What was going on” and I literally had no way to explain to him that ending without showing him clone wars. The show is made for people who watched the clone wars and rebels yet it’s marketed like the mandalorian, which EVERYONE likes, including my dad.

[@JinxTheLooneyToon915]

I'm someone who grew up with Clone Wars, Rebels and Resistance, so believe me when I tell you that *I FELT NOTHING ABOUT THIS SHOW,* if you can even call it that.

[@doomdoot6731]

Bro, I watched Clone Wars religiously as a kid (so when it came out) and I genuinely didn't realise what the statues were about. There's absolutely NOTHING hinting towards that story at all in the Ahsoka show imo, which makes it all the more weird that it was foreshadowed.

[@brocksells197]

@@doomdoot6731 The only other thing that hints at the Mortis arc that I noticed was the owl showing up at the end of the final episode

[@kickingbackpunchingcones4099]

as a rebels fan, this show shat all over rebels and then backdoored it raw

[@shawklan27]

I was confused as well with some of the characters and story beats as at the time i ignored rebels due to it being a more childish clone wars

[@c4sualcycl0ps48]

I’m so glad someone else realized that while Ahsoka and Sabine were both in Rebels, they never actually had a conversation.

[@Yorha_Unit_2B_]

I had so much fun watching Ahsoka that I stood there with my arms crossed and didn’t say anything.

[@jwroot]

Underrated comment.

[@krypticunlimited6925]

Besides Baylan, the best thing to come out of this show is the fact that Hayden Christianson is finally getting the love he deserves. Regardless of how fan-service-y it is, I'm so happy that people have warmed up to him so much that he has the chance to personally revive the character that he brought to life. Same goes for the Clone Wars sequences. As uneccessary as they are, they look amazing. The costume designers did an absolutely flawless job with the visual replication of the characters.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Are they unnecessary? I think a lot of people were expecting to see some the CW in live action in an Ahsoka show

[@roberthesser6402]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69people have this weird misconception that just because anakin appeared it was done solely for fanservice. It wasn’t. His appearance was crucial for Ahsoka’s arc; she’d become detached like the Jedi before her, overly focused on the mission and the “greater good” that she forgot about the people around her, the reason she’s supposed to be fighting in the first place. That’s how she ostracized Sabine, why she was willing to lose Ezra to keep thrawn at bay, and why she came off as so cold for so long. Anakin was illustrating to her that her upbringing was fucked and didn’t prepare her for a healthy adulthood; that he taught her to be a warrior, fight or die, but couldn’t teach her until now how to live. That’s his final lesson to her, that what he taught her in life will always be with her, but she doesn’t need to be defined by his teachings-or what he ultimately became, which has somewhat personified her internal fears and what catalyzed her closing herself off from others. She defeats anakin, and the anger that she had been suppressing almost bubbles to the surface, but she throws the light saber away, and chooses instead to live, which was never an option granted to her by her upbringing. It was always fight or die; anakin, only on death, was able to teach her to live. Ironic.

[@KelpyG.]

I do like that they include him but the its so sprinkled in why even include him at this point. I really wanted Obi-wan to be a movie that involved hayden more meaningfully than just small cameos here and there

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@KelpyG. Should've had flashbacks to Obi-Wan's childhood. The only way a second season would work is if he was stuck on Tatooine the entire time and had flashbacks to his training with Qui-Gon while he trains with him now

[@JKBisms]

That's because Hayden's performance as anakin has overwhelmingly improved

[@mmopronick7443]

If you can make Thrawn confronting Ahsoka about knowing who Anakin was feel stagnant and dull something is seriously wrong.

[@argkitsune]

Imagine somehow making a threatening villain in Legends so boring and uninteresting in this show.

[@jaksuperior2470]

ahhhh.. Thrawn in Rebels was what?@@argkitsune

[@AnnoyingNerdLoL]

@@argkitsune he’s not boring or uninteresting in all of canon, just in this show. He’s fantastic in the books and rebels.

[@argkitsune]

@@AnnoyingNerdLoL haven’t read the books and it’s been a while since I’ve seen Rebels so forgive me

[@WhiteScorpio2]

@@AnnoyingNerdLoL "He’s fantastic in rebels." Is he? He was completely useless, as I remember.

[@wolfgangamadeusmozart1293]

Your childhood hero has her own show, and you literally feel nothing.

[@ZggFghvgGrffht]

Can you blame him?

[@mpbeastohugbear83]

Yeah coz the show is fucking mid

[@argkitsune]

The show is incredibly mediocre.

[@BananaHoovyJ.Rabbit]

Yeah

[@daciannation5847]

Maybe it's because the childhood hero isn't the same character... it's some random shell who's only reaction to anything is crossing her arms.

[@joaoborges6851]

Not every show needs to be like Andor. But every show needs to have Andor's craftsmanship.

[@domino_201]

They just need to try. None of these shows have any actual effort put into them.

[@joaoborges6851]

@@domino_201 Do or do not. There is no try.

[@Yoshistar238]

I actually hated Andor. It didn't feel Starwars enough for me. and it was boring af. Ashoka was much more fun to watch

[@joaoborges6851]

@@Yoshistar238 Ok, that's fine. But I can't agree with that. And for me Star Wars can have it both ways. Grounded stuff like Andor and fantastic stuff like Ahsoka. As long as there's consistency in the quality. I enjoyed Ahsoka, I just feel it ended up falling short of greatness due to some of the story choices and other stuff. With Andor, I didn't feel that way.

[@BroKenYaKnow]

@@Yoshistar238 same, felt like it was all over the place with tons of dead plot lines.

[@wizardsknowledge1138]

I wanted Ahsoka to be animated instead of live-action SO bad. This is just another case of the industry not respecting animation as a medium for storytelling and suffering because of it.

[@rainbowresorts]

let it starve (the industry, i mean)

[@megacoolarto]

i mean the cast is absolutely spot on in my opinion

[@who4440]

Especially Disney. I don’t understand why they giving zero fs about their animation department. Everything has to be live action even if most movies and shows would be better animated.

[@slackershrub8923]

I think "unfulfilling" is the best word to describe this show. It isn't bad but I can't call it good either. It exists in this limbo of meh that honestly kinda baffles me.

[@slackershrub8923]

@@Alex.ander. then why are you here? Go away

[@lvo9197]

Feels like a prologue to me. whether it is seen as good or bad at the end will depend on the followup

[@John-Doe-Yo]

​@@slackershrub8923for the funny youtube snail guy duh

[@domino_201]

Unfulfilling? It’s worse than that

[@slackershrub8923]

@@lvo9197 it felt like a waste of time like every other bs fan service-filled corporate product Disney has been shitting out since Disney+ launched.

[@rewskiem5700]

I was so excited at the end of episode five because it seemed like Ahsoka was finally back to her old self. The way she said "I have no idea" (or something like that) when Huyang asked her if riding the whales would actually work felt so much more optimistic and jovial. But then in the next episodes she's back to being as stiff as she was in the previous ones.

[@PoppyRoseWitch]

Yes!! I was saying the same thing to friends!

[@alpacawizardman6778]

That’s a good observation, I didn’t really notice that. I guess I was too focused on everything else.

[@wilishworld9570]

But she was more jovial in episode 7 and 8, it was even pointed out that when Ahsoka first saw Ezra, that was the first time that Rosario laughed as Ahsoka. Even when her and Sabine were stranded at Peridea, she didn't blame anyone but she instead was hopeful that they would find a way of escaping, something that the earlier Ahsoka probably wouldn't be hopeful of.

[@luigiboyinblu]

@@wilishworld9570Agreed, her changes to her old self were more subtle. She would’ve definitely not forgiven Sabine for letting Thrawn escape before, as we see there’s not much trust between her. But the moment she opens up about how Anakin was to her is when she realized that she wants to be the same to Sabine, so her story closes with a more hopeful tone beautifully sealed with Anakin’s smile. I’m sorry everyone but I think I’ll be glad that this show made me feel and think a lot about a character I love so much such as Ahsoka Tano.

[@sebces2576]

She's slightly better but it just seems like she took an edible more than she's back to her old self

[@peachtoastie]

I’m sick of Filoni jangling keys in front of us like we’re toddlers and getting thunderous applause for it

[@nattteo]

Honestly, I think it's going to put another nail in the coffin for general audiences. The fact that my friend had to explain and how me key episodes of clone wars and rebels to make any sense of this show is a bad sign, especially if they want to use these characters in a movie later. Also I hate this representation of Thrawn. I feel like it totally misses the point of his character, at least the version of him in the EU books. Thrawn really needs an entire rogues gallery, like his best quality besides his tactical genius is that he can bring out the best in the people around him. But you don't really see that in this series at all. He just seems like a very generic evil villain.

[@hopegalaxy]

I HATE this where Star Wars is at right now!

[@somerandoqueenfan]

Hey, boy, do you remember this THING you liked? Huh? HUH?! WELL, GO FETCH

[@JP-dz5oj]

Something I had a problem with that I somehow haven't seen anybody talk about is how its doesn't make sense to make Sabine force-sensitive. What made Ezra so special when he first found the ghost crew is that Kanan realized he was force sensitive and chose to train him; why wouldn't he have tried the same with Sabine? He even taught her how to use a lightsaber while on Atollon, yet never tried to teach her how to tap into the force? Did he just not sense she was force sensitive, despite being far more in-tune with the force at the time? It really just opens a bunch of plot holes for rebels that didn't need to exist.

[@thetylertake]

I agree completely. At first I thought the show was going’s to introduce Sabine as the first non-Force sensitive Jedi. I think that’s a really interesting idea to play around with. Unfortunately we got the same old stereotypical ‘apprentice doesn’t know how to tap into their power until their friends are in distress’ story that we’ve all seen a million times by now.

[@ragingshibe]

​@@thetylertakewhat would have been better is if her connection and skill with the force were adjacent to Chirruit Irwe from Rogue One: she can't do explicitly Jedi stuff like force push or pull, but her physical abilities are enhanced by tapping into the force. Doing that would have been perfect cuz it stays in line with George Lucas' claim that "anyone fan use the force", while staying out of ridiculous territory. Unfortunately, Filoni fully embraced the latter and in the worst way possible by having nearly all her training to become a Jedi be offscreen, making her usage of the force uncerimonus like what gay crab man says.

[@domino_201]

jedi cool. mandalorian cool. so mandalorian jedi is double cool

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

There were scenes in Rebels that proved she’s force sensitive, sorry you didn’t pay attention.

[@ragingshibe]

@@CameronMcCracken_Art an obscure scene or 2 from a different show that very slightly implies Sabine is force-sensitive is nowhere near enough to make her using the force make sense. They also don't answer any of the questions the OC mentioned, namely how Kanan did not suspect at all she could use the force.

[@forsagebone]

I love Schaff for his blunt, but well placed, honesty. Seriously, I'm so disappointed at how people are content with mediocre fanservice nowadays. What's worse is Disney knows exactly what they want and continues to deliver on the mediocrity BECAUSE it's enough to satisfy them. *sigh*

[@androognoix1685]

If you're an Andor fan, imma say YOU stop encouraging mediocre shows

[@laszlomatko9981]

I don't personally think it's wrong to be content with these shows. Everyone should enjoy what they want to enjoy.

[@willgreig4077]

I mean I love the show and a lot of other people do to it's just a difference in opinion 🤷‍♂️

[@Leyva0scarVRL]

@@androognoix1685bro doesnt know what he is talking about

[@androognoix1685]

@@Leyva0scarVRL I know right

[@ryanc970]

This show and the animated ones before it are proof that live action does not always equal better or more mature than animation

[@rjald4910]

As the past shows, most life action shows are less creative, aren't as visually stunning or tell a story half as good. There are the odd outliers but that's what the trend shows. Especially these days with these companies taking no risks and mediocrity is the new great.

[@dadhj]

@@rjald4910which is genuinely shocking because of course live action can show alot more emotion due to the over million facial expressions we can do

[@peteryeeterson5766]

@@dadhj yeah, but animation can take those expressions and exaggerate them without it feeling unrealistic in the medium.

[@peteryeeterson5766]

I think part of the reason is logistics. It takes so much more time to get animation to look good that it’s basically a requirement that the story is decent. Live-action is a lot easier/less costly to shoot, thus leading to less time in the oven.

[@manuxx3543]

Also there's less meddling with animation, execs dont care about "kids stuff" So its more free and unique at the end

[@gabutman6144]

I loved the scene where the woman character crossed her arms with a "🗿" face I truly appreciated deep character writing

[@corellioncrusaderproductio4679]

Did you watch the show? That was an entire plot point.

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

Dude just say that you hate women and move on with your life.

[@kingwasimusic]

🗿

[@jwroot]

Kathleen Kennedy sure loves to have stoic women.

[@Lr.Laecro.Lirus3445]

What emotions did Cassian Andor exactly have during his own show?

[@emilianodelgado6573]

Fun Fact: Dave Filoni didn't write all clone wars episodes. Actually, he pretty much didn't write a single full episode at all. He was just a supervisor for the creative team and writers and his job was just overseeing and sometimes suggest some cool ideas for them to develop. He's not a writer nor a director, and this show (which is the first production where he actually served alone those responsabilities) is a proof of his lack of capacity. Stop saying "Filone is saving star wars" because he's artistically doing the opposite. Sorry if my english is bad or sth.

[@Tulipia5]

That's pretty sad, but makes sense: the best shows and movies were not made by a single person (*cough cough* George Lucas), but we give credit to 1 person, and when that person is given more creative power we see their flaws. Not to mention, everyone runs out of creative juice after a while, and people get tired of the same thing over and over again.

[@sophiabelcher7752]

That explains why the Animated projects with filoni's name attached are better; it took a much larger team to create such good shows, and he didn't do as much as people thought he did.

[@manfredwilson4475]

Well that certainly makes a lot more sense.

[@lexnight8345]

Filoni is a manager... the type that wonder how you edited a pdf after he failed for 10 years of work.

[@legovaderproductions6739]

actually you are compelely wrong, Dave flionli did write clone wars and was superviser director. a pretty important job, do your research next time.

[@eclate_666]

When Hayden Christensen showed up and told Ahsoka “ Girl ; i think is Cloning Wars Time ! " I couldn't hold back the tears of emotion . . . truly one of the TV shows of at time .

[@kaydencurtis6620]

agreed honestly it worked with what anakin was trying to teach ahsoka.

[@elijahblade3406]

@@kaydencurtis6620 his teaching was pointless, Ahsoa didn't even show to be any depressed or regretful. The acting of Rosario to be (insert moai emoji) all the time does not convey any emotion

[@jacksonwilliams5399]

Best line in the show was when anakin said “I’m cloning”

[@terronicle545]

Truly the moment of tv

[@TheRibottoStudios]

this meme is so fcking dead I can't stand it.

[@hayfrand5094]

As a big Rebels fan it’s so sad for me. The last Season of Rebels built up so much for the future. I remember people talking about this epic new show featuring a final conflict between Ezra Sabine and Thrawn. Some people were talking about a animated MOVIE that would basically be the finale of Rebels. It’s honestly sad that this is how Filoni decided to end this amazing story.

[@domino_201]

W take

[@WaffleLover-my1hi]

Maybe this is just me being greedy for content, but I don't like how many significant time jumps they have been doing. I would have much preferred a more long term show that goes through Ahsoka getting back to Lothal and finding Sabine, shows Sabine's conflict of whether or not she should go to Mandalore, and shows Ezra's relationship with Thrawn in the other galaxy. Instead of 8 episodes covering like 2 weeks, I'd prefer like 12 episodes covering 5 years. I feel like that allows a greater focus on characters and setting than "oh we are on this quest and we need to get this thing and then go to point A and then point B."

[@FilonisHat]

It all comes down to this antiquated thinking that equates animation with kiddy content. Not everything should be live-action, for both art and budgetary purposes.

[@chileanyways196]

This!! Star Wars rebels is my favorite Star Wars ever and I was so disappointed with this

[@Green_MnM_Commander_of_Antifa]

It all started with an OK movie it's only fitting it should end with an epic movie

[@smugplush]

Anyone else found Ezra's return to be very anticlimatic? i remember hearing theories years ago after Rebels that Thrawn and Ezra wouldn't really be allies but atleast both understanding of each other, sorta like the Rebels episode with Zeb and Kallus where both are trapped together (Thrawn and Ezra) and in that time, learn things from each other they wouldn't learn other wise so when they found Ezra, he wouldn't be against Thrawn nor would Thrawn be aswell. Honestly any of the theories people came up with years ago are 10x better than what we got which was just "Hey, you found me! :)" Show filled with so many missed opportunities and wooden acting that it honestly feels more like a bad dream than a reality.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Makes me wonder what they were doing those 11 years and how Thrawn never found him

[@domino_201]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 I don’t think even Filoni himself knows

[@kristen0009]

Bro of course it was anticlimactic, he looks nothing like his animated version and rejected using a light saber. Plus all the extremely unrealistic interactions when sabine and ezra met each other after years

[@jojbenedoot7459]

​@@kristen0009ok but him using force pushes instead of a lightsaber was sick

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@jojbenedoot7459 Honestly when he got his new lightsaber the fight choreography significantly improved

[@clintelkins9630]

Baylan is played so well, if I was Sabine I would have handed the map over to him in a heartbeat. He's just so calm and charismatic without even doing anything

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

I wish that led to her falling to the Dark Side or like anything

[@musayibghani3986]

Is he tho, he's soo boring imo. We don't know anything about him what he's doing. He just stands there and says something every once in a while.

[@NakAlienEd]

@@musayibghani3986 He shows more charisma than the rest of the characters, and has a mystery about him and his goals. That alone would place him above all the other characters in the show. I've never seen more than an episode or two of Rebels, and I wasn't given a single reason to really care about most of the "legacy" characters that came up.

[@musayibghani3986]

@@NakAlienEd I don't feel the charisma. He stands there, says something mysterious then walks away.

[@NakAlienEd]

@@musayibghani3986 fair enough. I certainly can't make you feel what I feel. To me though, I feel his presence so much more than everyone else in the show

[@torinmoodie3931]

Ahsoka refusing to train Grogu bc he’s too emotional and attached but will happily train Sabine who is so incredibly emotional. To the extent that she essentially sacrifices the galaxy to see space Aladdin (with no repercussions) made me so mad my score went down to a 2/10

[@Miss_Trillium]

Also ahsoka refusing to train grogu doesn't fit Rebels Ahsoka anyways

[@SnillhundReal]

The reason she refused to train Grogu was also why she refused to train Sabine at the start of the show tho

[@TheMakuta345]

She literally repeated that trend with Sabine.. It's like you didn't watch the show. She cut off Sabine's training for the same reason and only began training her again because she both HAD to, and Huyang showed her how much of a dick she was being. If she was asked to train Grogu now, and Sabine wasn't occupying the padawan slot, then she would train him. It's a thing called character growth

[@kickingbackpunchingcones4099]

When you realize that a massive character plot from rebels was about her committing genocide on her own people on mandalore, it really puts sabine in perspective. she is really an awful human being

[@SuperZX49]

This

[@Luke_SkywaIker]

Making Sabine a Jedi is a textbook example of manufactured tension. The story knows it needs to provide some sort of “conflict” between the protagonists, but since Sabine and Ahsoka never had any chemistry or meaningful interaction in Rebels, they had to manufacture a reason for them to suddenly be at odds in order to make the conflict seem deeper than it actually is. The problem is, so much of this “backstory” is allocated offscreen and was never justified by Rebels (or this show tbh)…what’s worse is that they turned Ahsoka into this jaded, blunt character to sell this forced “failed master and apprentice” story. Real Ahsoka would never treat Sabine the way the Jedi Council treated her, which is perhaps the biggest gripe I have with this show.

[@lordepsilon7023]

Now that I think about it, I don't think Ahsoka and Sabine exchanged a single word in Rebels and the final scene of the show was the only time they were ever alone in an area together.

[@domino_201]

@@lordepsilon7023 They didnt

[@domino_201]

but jedi cool. mandalorian cool. so mandalorian jedi double cool. That’s the only reason.

[@AshanBhatoa]

I don't believe the precedent is actually all that important. It's a factor, however if the series had established a strong character dynamic which could stand alone for the series, I don't believe the fact that Sabine and Ahsoka not spending any substantial time with one another genuinely matters in the grand scheme. Ultimately, the epilogue is what is being utilised as a springboard and I do not mind that. What I do mind is the lacklustre execution.

[@mizzypink8]

Plus they took away everything that made her a Mandalorian and replaced it with a bad Jedi arc. I missed when she made bombs and was an artist

[@snappyturtle1018]

Filoni Just feels like a fanfic writer who people are too scared to tell "no, this is a terrible idea."

[@Accountnamehere1968]

So he's just a fanfic version of George Lucas.

[@splat-trainproductions]

I wouldn't say that Dave Feloni is a "Fanfic Writer"; that title goes to JJ Abrams & Rian Johnson, who both wrote the Sequel Trilogy. (JJ also ruined Star Trek until SNW came out.)

[@snappyturtle1018]

@@splat-trainproductions they just made bad movies. Filoni was good until he was given too much power and just started writing stupid shit that made no sense.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

​@@splat-trainproductionsY'all still whining about TLJ when it was the exact opposite of a show like this?

[@Hawkatana]

@@splat-trainproductions You people are proof that TLJ was objectively correct.

[@wintersakiller]

The best thing about the show was easily Ray Stevenson as Balan Skoll. He had the best performance, the most interesting character, and easily the best setup. The finale of this show had me bored to no end, but seeing him standing atop statues of The Father and The Son actually made me jump out of my seat. I can’t believe he’s gone, and that we’ll never get to see him complete that storyline. RIP Ray, you were the goat.

[@sithlord12]

Hayden was also great

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

I'd hope they recast him instead of end the character here

[@dieselpatches]

Probably would’ve been better if the Ahsoka series actually put the spotlight on Ahsoka and not some fanfic character.

[@tygrenvoltaris4782]

Shhh dont slander dave filonis oc

[@danthewhale9835]

What character is 'fanfic'?

[@Quadrenaro]

What do you mean?

[@payt00n]

Ew it's diseal patches.... what are you doing here

[@altromonte15]

no, Ashoka is gonna be the main character in the next show named after somebody else, that's how star wars shows work now.

[@Dilly_Dork]

Am I the only one who feels Sabine getting the force is somewhat of a character assassination? Like, didn’t she have an arc where she could not use the Darksaber because she was so force inept?

[@domino_201]

It’s not so much of a character assassination as it is a completely unnecessary decision that also f*cks with everything retroactively. There was no reason for her to become a jedi aside from “mandalorian cool, jedi cool, so have mandalorian jedi which is double cool”. She was great with her own unique talents and qualities. But she is definitely character assassinated. She actually gave the people who destroyed her family, planet, and culture the means to bring back the Night King- I mean Thrawn and risk another galactic war, dooming everything she risked her life to build, sacrificing everyone she ever knew (Hera, Zeb, Jacen, Ahsoka, Bo Katan), all for her high school crush that she hasn’t seen in a decade. She then proceeds to do heinous sh*t in the following episodes with no repercussions.

[@Florkl]

It’s definitely a skillset she doesn’t need. She was already a top-tier warrior, artist, and munitions expert, with plenty of other skills. Giving her The Force just seems… excessive. Like, her skillset let her keep up with Force-users. Now she is one. Why? I mean, a Force-sensitive Mandalorian sounds awesome. But it doesn’t need to be Sabine. Especially at her point in her character arc.

[@christianwise637]

@@Florkl Also, it's kind of weird for someone whose main gimmick in Rebels was her artistic passion to do absolutely ZERO painting or art of any kind in this series. It really feels like someone at Lucasfilm (whether it be Filoni, Kennedy or someone else) is just trying to rob all the characters of any unique or interesting traits and make them all as homogenised as possible

[@royalgambit4508]

Excessively overpowered female characters, what a novel idea for Disney. In all seriousness tho, the only thing outside of Andor that Disney has done with the Star Wars franchise is pander to specific, easily satisfied parts of the prequel era fanbase.

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

​@@christianwise637"Homogenised"? Sounds like Disney alright.

[@Leftylt1234]

The entire planet of Peridea feels like a world where Filoni could insert all of his references and popular works from days gone by Clone Wars Nightsisters ✅ Some kind of wolf species ✅ Zombies ✅ Purrgil ✅ Mortis Gods ✅ Those are just the major ones I’ve noticed

[@Luke_SkywaIker]

I’m really glad someone brought this up because I can’t tell you how much this pissed me off. The moment I saw those wolves my eyes rolled so far back in my head…it’s like Filoni can’t even control himself. The man has zero original ideas, it’s damn pathetic.

[@anonymous-hz2un]

Filoni took us all the way to a different galaxy and all he could think of was yet another wasteland of a planet with ancient ruins sprinkled here and there. Pathetic.

[@anothermicrobe755]

The Clone Wars was great because it continuously pushed itself to tell new, more ambitious stories. While it's characters may have returned on screen, it really feels like that spark is gone, and that makes me sad.

[@bradenhagen7977]

And actually killed off characters we loved. There were stakes.

[@willandwillstudios]

I showed this show to my stepdad and he kept calling Thrawn “the guy with fire in his eyes”

[@TheSpaceCommunist]

And somehow that description does more to describe Thrawn’s character than any line of dialogue in this show

[@thegamingprozone1941]

Thrawn the dullest twat in the room

[@georgeolund7572]

nah that's Edward Elric

[@willandwillstudios]

@@georgeolund7572 he hasn't watched that yet

[@DWEGOON]

The next Star Wars show that will be hailed as a masterpiece on Twitter will just be a a scrolling list of every character that has ever appeared in Star Wars

[@maykechi7752]

I think the very existence of Huyang in this show is a giveaway. In TCW he was essentially a character of the week, now he’s been brought back after 10 years to be a major team member. When they brought back the main characters like Ashoka and Cad Bane it was cool, but after shows like the Bad Batch had to scrape up minor characters like Cut Laquane and the Zigzagoons, it really feels like they’re desperate for material. Keep in mind that for as epic as TCW was, it was still a Cartoon airing in between Bakugan Battle Brawlers (an extended toy commercial) and Total Drama Island. It really makes me miss how legends felt more like an actual universe of stories rather than a just a single interconnected saga.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Cut Lawquane was at least relevant to the idea of Clone Trooper deserters

[@pauljohnson2911]

FINALLY! I haven’t heard a single other person who called out Ahsoka for being live action rather than animated.

[@CT--2716]

I would have loved it if they did it in clone wars animation I really like its style and wish there was more content in that style

[@neptunemedia8746]

Baylan is by far the best character in this show.

[@joshuawilliams9247]

I totally agree! Rest in peace the actor, because his character was the best

[@domino_201]

Nah that’s Shin and Huyang. The only characters who are at least semi-enjoyable on screen and haven’t been inconsistently characterized, though the former has less than minimal character anyway.

[@FilonisHat]

Remember how Dave remembered to put him in for 15 seconds in the season finale? Can anybody produce a competent Star War nowadays?

[@SeanA099]

Kind of. But he hardly had anything to do and we got so little exploration of his actual motivations

[@MrStatement]

And even then he's not much of a character.

[@Spongebrain97]

After watching the show, it has really occured to me that Dave Filoni is absolutely George Lucas Part 2 in that they have the same great mind for world building and character creation but struggle with screen writing and directing their actors. For instance whenever Ashoka and Sabine would talk, the pacing and performances straight up gave me prequel vibes. Rosario Dawson is a great actress but she feels wooden in the role in the same way Liam Neeson, also a great actor, did in Phantom Menace. It's down to the director not getting the best performance out of their actor. And we gotta remember that although Filoni was the creator of The Clone Wars tv series, he acted mostly as a show runner. And there were other people writing episodes, especially the really good ones, and since this is his first shot at live action, the flaws become apparent as to why they exist.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

yes. YES. SOMEONE ELSE SEES THIS.

[@maja.z.pszczola]

I remember how people called Dave George’s apprentice and it seems he inherited both the good and the bad aspects of his storytelling. But now, I wonder further, who is the future of Star Wars? With all the different projects, movies, shows, books games, a lot of people saw Filoni as the one who should take over, but now it’s not as clear anymore. As much as others seem to always blame Kathleen Kennedy, she was involved in Star Wars all the way back in the Original Trilogy. I worry, that if nothing changes, Dave may follow the same fate…

[@Spongebrain97]

@maja.z.pszczola it reminds me of how occasionally you'll hear people say something like "Disney should bring back George Lucas" but the issue is they already have one but his name is Filoni, not Lucas. Like you said he inherited the same ups and downs from his master. Now it's to where when a show feels mid or bad, those same people want to blame Disney and Kathleen Kennedy for it but are slowly starting to realize that Filoni and Jon Favreau also have been making inferior products as of late and cannot be ignored anymore.

[@i.shuuya3231]

Seems like Dave forgot everything about George's political commentary

[@domino_201]

He’s not even a good ideas guy like George.

[@gray4675]

The fan service in this show was so affective, that the fans will actively call you stupid on twitter for calling it fan service. They fully bought into it, and its the reason star wars will never change

[@edba1.037]

it's a fan service that was good and executed well, so i will have to partially agree

[@domino_201]

@@extantfellow46 Rex is the only cameo that wasn’t wasted. he didn’t overstay his welcome at all which I appreciate. Anakin was utterly wasted

[@firewolfandrewb]

Star Wars fans deserve that rotted carcass of a franchise.

[@darrenbachan9272]

​@@domino_201so Anakin helping Ahsoka move on was a waste? What would have been a better way to deal with that character then?

[@Vespyr_]

​@@extantfellow46They are blatant fan service mate. You people are sincerely, with all due respect delusional, and with absolutely terrible integrity in taste.

[@taliyahofthenasaaj7570]

Personally, what I found most interesting about "Ahsoka" was Baylon and Shin. From start to end they have such nuanced, interesting performances, and for most of the show, they were interesting wildcards that were so fun to try to figure out. Baylon in particular had so much going for him. Considering this show was about Ahsoka and Sabine, I personally think it's disappointing that the most interesting characters, for me, were the two ones we've never seen before - and likely will never see again. I don't hate the show, but I love Ahsoka, and I wish it had pulled through better. It's made me wonder if Star Wars should really just take the Andor route and start telling new stories, of new characters, and let the old ones rest easy. Die a hero or live long enough to become a villain kinda thing, I suppose.

[@painstakeranimations9253]

The unfortunate thing about the show is the missed potential. This has a pretty compelling story bogged down by mediocrity. Ahsoka dealing with her past, Ezra's rescue, Sabine's unsure state in life, the New Republic's ignorance, Baylan's morality, Thrawn. All these are interesting concepts delivered in the most flat and uninteresting way possible. It really is such a shame.

[@macvadda2318]

Idk thrawns wasnt that bad

[@painstakeranimations9253]

@@macvadda2318 he just doesn't feel like Thrawn. He feels like every other imperial, except he's a bit smarter and calm. But even his tactics aren't as brilliant as they usually are. He just feels off imo.

[@randomperson-kx6mv]

Yeah, there were a lot of moments in the show that were cool and got me super excited. These moments... didn't really lead to anything, though. Everything the creators needed to make a compelling show was there, but they fumbled the execution, which makes me sad.

[@painstakeranimations9253]

@@randomperson-kx6mv same, but oh well. It is what it is.

[@TrollStack]

Ezra would have been so cool as an open-hand Jedi that chooses not to use a lightsaber after surviving so long without his

[@crimsonshot3472]

But he didn’t use a lightsaber in the end?

[@nchldmn]

6:00 hit the nail on head

[@rooracleaf561]

Finally someone mentioned how good the music is. The end of that episode where Ahsoka's ship is inside the space whales and they're about to jump, and the music is playing gave me chills

[@TheRibottoStudios]

If anything, this show made me *more* nervous for the Filoni movie than ever before. That thing is supposed to tie together _The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Ahsoka_ cleanly? The last time we had a movie that a ton of characters that had a good series of *Goals, Stakes and Urgency,* was _Avengers: Infinity War/Endgame._ And that was something that was built up over A DECADE vs just a year or so. There's just TOO much to tie up from _TBOBF, Ahsoka_ and _The Mandalorian._ By the end of a show even with 8 or 9 episodes, we should have some answers, but still have questions leading up to a movie or another season. _Arcane_ is a great example of how to do 9 episodes and have NOTHING be filler none of the episodes in that show can be counted as filler where there is nothing happening towards the actual plot. By the end of _Arcane_ we know where all the players are at, we know what they're about, and yet we know next to nothing about what the fallout of Jinx's actions will be like for those characters, who lives, who dies, who's left to tell the story. All ambiguous. Meanwhile the ending of _Ahsoka_ leaves you with questions, but those questions don't leave you excited for the Filoni movie that will be the culmination of this, it leaves you doubtful. We still know next to nothing about Shin and Baylan as actual people, as characters. We don't know why Sabine just never tells Ezra about what she did to get him back. We get TOLD what happened between Ahsoka and Sabine vs being SHOWN what happened. The show was an absolute mess. The fact that the only episode EVERYONE loved was Shadow Warrior, says a lot. And not all of it is good.

[@phasism7332]

Oh yeah, keep in mind that there's also Skeleton Crew, which is supposed to tie in to this… Mandalorian story arc, or whatever. And also the Mandalorian season 4.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

@@phasism7332 This is way too much. It's too much. MCU had this going over A DECADE of storytelling. SW is fast traveling this and it's gonna explode in their face. Filoni is NOT a good of a storyteller as people think he is. He is a GREAT worldbuilder, he's GREAT at designing and creating amazing characters...but storytelling? ehhhhh

[@catchupichu]

At this point I honestly just resent Star Wars and the OG/Prequel era makes me feel sorrow more than anything; to see this franchise sink so low as many other beloved movies or series have

[@luxarcanae]

I agree except for the arcane part. I'm probably one of three people who didn't conect with it. But your point still stands.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

@@luxarcanae You could very easily swap out _Arcane_ with any miniseries that you did like and the point works lol

[@bannedwagoner69]

Looking back at the show I still adore from my childhood, Clone wars DEFINITELY had a dialogue issue. Unlike this filoni story tho, the cartoons were able to convey emotion despite what felt like intentionally dry and sarcastic dialogue

[@firemetal9655]

I think the dialogue was sarcastic and dry early on, but it definitely improved. Everything from Season 3 onwards was extremely well written imo. You have to admit that the Clone Wars dialogue was leagues above the dialogue in this show.

[@archduke0000]

@@firemetal9655 the lowest of bars but yes that is true.

[@bannedwagoner69]

@@firemetal9655 ong clone wars stepped tf up in EVERY way midway thru Szn 3

[@sebastianwillows]

"Mon Mothma's back!" Real recognizing real. We love to see it...

[@ZHL242]

8:25 "I'm not asking for high art, I don't need every show to be on Andor's level" Disney is the richest studio on the planet managing the most valuable IP on the planet. I'm asking for high art. Andor-level quality and effort and care should be the minimum. The fact that over half of the live action show seasons have been straight up bad is asinine and insulting.

[@Chamstar]

As someone who hasn't watched Rebels yet (only season 4 in Clone Wars), I'm still disappointed that Ezra didn't find out that Sabine gave the map away. That was the at the top of my list for things I expected to happen and I feel like the conflict between Sabine's desire to see Ezra again and Ezra choosing duty to keep the universe safe could have been so good. Also Ahsoka just being like "eh it's fine that you betrayed my trust and gave the bad guys what they wanted" killed a lot of my enjoyment for this show. I feel like the consequences (getting trapped in another universe) for her actions weren't drastic enough, especially since her relationship with Ahsoka is still good. With how stiff and "wisened" they made Ahsoka in this show it doesn't make sense to me why she isn't disappointed. Wow I had a lot to say about this. Overall I enjoyed it, but will I rewatch it? Nah, probably not. Edit: clearer language.

[@PurpleNoir]

My thoughts exactly!

[@enzoamore8971]

Still annoyed about that. I don't mind Sabine doing it, but to not have anyone react to her behavior took me out of it.

[@The_Jovian]

I'm upset that AHSOKA couldn't tell what happened with the map without using the force to look into the past. Like. The clues are not hard to follow.

[@ragaya3043]

Yeah?! It was a bold choice, but the lack of repercussions renders it useless

[@TungstenArm]

The part about not relying on fan service and bringing back characters is why I loved Andor and Mandalorian S1. Neither used fanservice to maintain interest.

[@palpatinesboi9549]

And what do you know? Those are the best seasons of Star Wars live-action television. When will Disney and Lucasfilm grasp that? We want good, original stories set in this amazing universe. Yeah, bringing in some familiar elements to ENHANCE the story is good (like having Yularen in Andor; makes sense because he's the head of the ISB, or having Saw, makes sense because it's the start of the Rebellion and Saw worked parallel to the Alliance, while also being a character similar to Luthen so it works thematically), but it shouldn't be the point like it is in every other season.

[@kickingbackpunchingcones4099]

mando s1 fanservice is silver boba fett and grogu but ur right other than that

[@Jack-ol1io]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@kickingbackpunchingcones4099they didn’t even show boba fett face in season one right?

[@kickingbackpunchingcones4099]

@@Jack-ol1io din djarin is a whole memberberry for boba fett - his whole character design is just boba fett but silver because boba fett is a fan favourite thats why they brought boba fett back later because they know we love boba fett

[@liamphibia]

As someone who *loved* the Clone Wars and liked Rebels, Ahsoka managed to make me feel frustrated me and apathetic at the same time. Almost all the characters feel like they've been *character assassinated.* They DON'T feel like themselves, both writing-wise and acting-wise it's just really disheartening.🙍🏻

[@liamphibia]

Soulless and passionless are the best words I can describe Ahsoka. Dave Filoni has truly fallen from grace, I don't think he cares about what the fans want.

[@christiannoriega428]

​@liamphibian3697 He definitely cares about the fans. He also cares about his characters because he pretty much made most of them. He failed a lot in the execution in this series, and I think he needed another writer to help him execute his ideas better. The overall idea and plot is pretty interesting but he didn't present it well. Some important messages in it don't come across well at all so it makes the audience confused.

[@HolaMundoTheMisteriousAG]

George Lucas, Hideo Kojima, David Filoni, Shyamalan and the Wachowsky are genious JUST when a team are constantly help them to develop ideas

[@donpollo3154]

I never thought of the similarities that Filoni and Lucas had with Kojima but yeah it makes total sense lol

[@Amgarrak]

Michael Dante DiMartino & Bryan Konietzko when they worked on ATLA. Like they are credited as the creators, but they had a team of writers and actors hammering out their idea into something more interesting. There is nothing wrong with them or others who are idea guys. But there is something wrong when people think the idea guys are the sole reason the show was any good.

[@AlexDahl]

Dave Filoni's shortcomings as a writer and director were much more easily papered over when he had stellar animators to cover over the deficiencies for him by giving the characters more life, spunk, and personality. He was never responsible for making the characters actually come to life, just providing the stories and universe they existed in. For most of Clone Wars, he also had George to lean on for help. It also helped that the show was on cartoon network, and a lot of the plot holes and overall silliness could be easily overlooked as a result. In live action, all those guardrails are gone, and the fact that Filoni is a cartoon-network level writer became incredibly apparent in this show. I can't imagine him directing a movie.

[@konstantinosnikolakakis8125]

Filoni didn’t even write Clone Wars though, he was supervising director, and he only worked as writer on like ten episodes.

[@langadube9611]

Hey hey hey. I will not have the CN slander stand. CN made some of the most well written cartoons or TV shows in general before well the GO era where everything become the same.

[@cometbun2437]

I love how the other galaxy is just a gray, bleached landscape just like the first third of the show. You see it’s sort of like poetry, it rhymes. Bravo Filoni, me exciti for your Thrawn movie!

[@maxenswlfr1877]

Yeah, I really expected this world to feel more alien even to SW standards but it amounts to rock Tatooine with even fewer things

[@tonydub98]

Something I don’t feel like enough people talk about with these Disney+ Star Wars shows is how fucking bland and boring EVERY planet looks. Abolish the volume

[@delbertdoppler]

You perfectly captured my feelings. One thing I don't think was mentioned was Ahsoka saying and accepting others saying she was a jedi, when the fact she left the order is a very important part of her story. She refused to be called a jedi after she left the order, and kept this mindset at least until she met Vader in Rebels. Then she took Sabine as a padawan (thus acying like a Jedi) a few weeks/month later. Then she refused to train Grogu something like 7 years later (if I got my timeline right) because "she's not a Jedi". Now a few months later she's back to being a Jedi with a Padawan. It feels very inconsistant to me. But I'd be okay with it if the rest of her characterisation and the show was good, as in good good, not just mediocre. It's crazy to me that I was more or less annoyed at seeing Rex and Anakin, when Rex is like... my favourite character? And the relationship between Anakin and Ahsoka is also one of my favourite thing ever. And yet here I was just... part of me was so happy to see them, the other part was just wondering "stop milking this like that, please". The Rex cameo was pretty unconsequential, so I guess it's not that important, but that shot must have felt very weird for anyone not knowing clone wars, and for fans it feels like baiting? Idk, I have mixed feelings.

[@joewow1229]

Man I didn't even realise Ray Stevenson died this year, a tragedy every scene he is in in Ahsoka feels like a better, fresh story with more morally ambiguous themes that we get glimpses of in the series, then it cuts back to the monotony of what we are actually watching. He is the first actor that has shown the difference between an okay act for an mediocre series and someone in a mediocre series taking my balls for a joyride.

[@domino_201]

such a shame that his talents were wasted with such a terrible script and that his legacy is this. Star Wars, the franchise where dreams go to die

[@achaudhari101]

@@domino_201 Don’t try to make it seem like he was embarrassed considering the show is not awful like that.

[@infinty_yt]

I will say, the moments with Anakin was incredible. Hayden was great.

[@SimGunther]

The best definition of "one of the shows of all time"

[@chasehedges6775]

One of the shows ever made.

[@Tygermite]

THANK YOU! I'm so sick of all those 9.8 scores and reviews for this show when it's not that good. It's banking on nostalgia and relying on it.

[@teenagestacker6063]

The more I learned about Dave's involvement in The Clone Wars the more I realize he wasn't really involved in writing it as much as I thought, but instead was the guy making sure everything fit into the Star Wars universe and making ideas. Lucas was also very involved in Clone Wars unlike what some people say, being directly involved in almost the whole shows run, and making the show a reality to begin with. The main writers deserve way more credit for making The Clone Wars, The Clone Wars

[@skorupiis9980]

Absolutely insane that the same man who made the only pieces of Star Wars media that have ever made me cry also made the single piece of media that makes me feel completely apathetic towards every single element in it. Props to the animators for being able to translate Dave’s vision for his previous works so well, to me this show is the ultimate lesson of not attributing the culmination of a teams success to one single person lest that idolization completely backfires when they have to make something that meets those standards on their own

[@catchupichu]

Remember when lightsabers felt dangerous and lethal? Yeah, me neither.

[@sargeward8184]

As easy as it is to make fun of how bad Ahsoka is as a show, this has got to be probably the dumbest talking point that's managed to take hold. Did we all forget about how Obi Wan got sliced up by Dooku's saber in Attack of the Clones and had no lasting injuries from it? Or how Qui-Gon managed to live long enough to give dying words to Obi-Wan during Phantom Menace despite being sliced through the gut? Lightsabers were extremely inconsistent during George's tenure, too.

[@catchupichu]

@@sargeward8184 I do agree those weren't great either. Qui-Gonn's death is more akin to the "lives just long enough for last words" cliché

[@PairoDraws]

@@sargeward8184yeah and Darth maul getting chopped in half 💀

[@catchupichu]

@@PairoDraws This honestly is one of the main reasons why we have so many "fake out deaths" these days. I know there are canon explanations for Maul's survival and I do like what they did with his character in the Clone Wars, yet his survival from being chopped in half enabled other "resurrections" in the franchise

[@PairoDraws]

@@catchupichu yeah he’s my favorite character and I love him so much but him getting chopped in half and living off of pure anger is just so dumb imo

[@spider-insider7981]

The whole show was basically just characters standing 2 meters apart with their arms crossed

[@tommykaung5882]

I think Ahsoka as a character also suffered the same thing that many anime characters did. Because she is introduced as an animated character first, it is hard to translate everything from animation to live action.

[@corellioncrusaderproductio4679]

@@extantfellow46 Isn't that quite literally the point of the entire show? Ahsoka IS disconnected from herself, and the course of the show is her finding herself again. She seemed perfectly in character during the last two episodes.

[@zk116]

I think something to note is that credit for TCW shouldn't entirely be given to Filoni --- George would often get quite involved in it, and he would generally supervise the production of the show. Also, if you want the good Sequel Trilogy or good and actually nuanced version of Thrawn, then just read Heir To The Empire

[@MinnowTF]

I loved it when Ahsoka said “it’s Jediing time and Light Saberred all over the morb. Truly one of the.

[@enderboy1824]

2:02 I didn’t even realize that was Greenblatt. I’ve been waiting for something of hers to soar cause she is a good actress.

[@liamphibia]

Strangely she embodied Young Ahsoka's spirit and essence. She's even a better actress than Rosario Dawson surprisingly.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

To be fair, Dave Filoni didn’t actually write most of clone wars if you look at the actual writing credits. There was a team of really talented writers on that show. And even clone wars took about a year plus to get good. Most of the really great arcs aren’t in season 1. I almost quit watching it - not because I hate animation (I really think animation has a ton of potential and I wish Ashoka had been an animated instead of live action series) but I was encouraged to give clone wars a second shot and haven’t regretted it since. Also Rebels…a slow burn that became top tier. All that to say, I think Filoni gets far more credit for how good Clone Wars turned out then is warranted. He is a somewhat ok idea man, but he needs the right team to actually turn it into something worthwhile.

[@ggt47]

Most of the stories are taken from the EU.

[@racobjeba]

FINALLY someone else is saying Dave Filoni is washed. He is a KIDS CONTENT PRODUCER. He was great for the era he started and for the content he made he was perfect. But for the live action imperial and new-republic era we need real filmmakers. If they make more animated TV Filoni is perfect but if star wars wants to go in a live action direction we need more Tony Gilroys and Favreus

[@jasonpeet6198]

Bro fillioni is just starting out in live action let him take his time and he could come out with something great

[@taiwall]

I'm not gonna say that I loved ahsoka 10/10 or anything, but to dilute clone wars and rebels to "just kid's content" does a disservice to some of the legitimately good stories in those shows. Yes they were marketed for kids, but they still had good ideas

[@koifish835]

I think Filoni can do ok in live action if he has a partner like Favreu as we saw in the first two seasons of Mando, but I agree on his own he feels out of his element. I honestly wish instead of giving him all this live action stuff he was working on another animated series. I think one based on the High Republic era could be really cool since he'd basically have free reign to do whatever. It's actually really weird how little Disney has taken advantage of the High Republic its just a couple books and comics at this point.

[@SomeYank9]

Favreaus? Honestly, Jon Favreau has not impressed me almost at all with his handling of Star Wars. The first season of Mando was great and the second season was good. What has he been involved in other than those two that was good?

[@noobmasterruben5167]

@@jasonpeet6198 let him take his time? dude he already had his chance with The Mandalorian s1 and s2 and those were well written

[@argkitsune]

We totally should hold all Star Wars content to the standards of Andor, though.

[@ragingshibe]

Andor's writing and storytelling methods specifically should be the standard, or in other words, have well-developed and interesting characters, solid direction for where the story will go, and action/big reveals that are well-built up to, well-deserved, and have actual consequences. As much as I wouldn't mind SW becoming a Marvel Defenders-esque adult drama saga, we have to realize not every SW fan is into that stuff. But every SW fan agrees SW projects desparately need better writing, hence why Andor is the perfect model to go off of.

[@Door227]

@@ragingshibeif you say that disneys just gonna milk andor for all the fanservice it can have because it’s so good

[@ragingshibe]

@@Door227 Andor is set for only 2 seasons. The 2nd season will go up to Rogue One in the SW timeline, meaning it's highly unlikely the deal for just 2 will change. The only way Disney can milk Gilroy and his team for all they're worth will be through other projects, but by that point Andor's legacy as Disney Star Wars' magnum opus will be well-secured.

[@Door227]

@@ragingshibe yeah that’s what I meant like what happened with the mandolorian

[@palpatinesboi9549]

Exactly. Not everything has to be the same genre or have the same sorts of themes, but we can absolutely expect the same high level of quality.

[@RMadaraPlay]

Ahsoka truly is one of the shows of all time

[@theduke9292]

“I think andor is to high a standard.” The thing is, Andor should be a raised standard that forced Disney to improve their work going forward. Obviously not every director is as skilled and needs such a tight script but it should lay ground work for the universe due to its existence

[@niIIer1]

I love Thrawn. Lars Mikkelsens perfomance of him was spot on. They just didn't use him all that much so I guess they did not have time to fuck up his writing. They REALLY should get Timothy Zahn to assist with writing him, hell he even offered to do it but got declined. Also I am going to cope and say I still believe Filoni can make something good, there is no way that he goes from last clone wars season to Ahsoka and cannot climb back up.

[@aaronmueller1560]

Thrawn was one of the most embarrassing parts of this show for me. Him constantly making bad decisions that put him in a worse position and then trying to tell himself that it was all planned and going as intended was ridiculously funny. He is portrayed as an unbelievably incompetent general when the entire season he has been hyped up as someone who could win a war with just a couple TIE Fighters and a single Star Destroyer. That, and the actor playing him just lacked presence. He attempted to go for a reserved but powerful sort of thing, but the combination of the body language, voicing, dialogue, and framing makes him look like a geriatric who doesn’t think about what he’s doing for longer than four seconds and who is most concerned for when he will get to take another nap.

[@thomasfilshie1398]

@@aaronmueller1560 tbf his goal that whole season was getting off peridea with as little casualties as possible, it didn't matter whether he won those battles or not, he just needed to stall them enough for him to be able to escape, which is what happened in the end so he achieved his goals realistically

[@aaronmueller1560]

@@thomasfilshie1398 his plans to do that were awful. He didn’t delay them for even 10 minutes, and only alerted them to the fact that they needed to be quick by showing that he was onto them and their location and wanted to stop them. He also constantly flip-flops on whether he wants them to die or couldn’t give a fuck. He sends multiple groups of people to go deal with them but doesn’t ensure they have the support or orders needed to finish the job they were sent to do. He sacrifices them for no reason when he could have sent everyone he sacrificed at once and gotten them killed. He gets reports that they hit their ship with some blasts but that contact was lost and no one returned, and doesn’t send anyone else to finish off the job and make sure the ship can’t be prepared. He doesn’t just leave right away and ignore Ahsoka and the others, as he certainly could have done. As just something I thought about after 2 minutes of thought on the subject, Thrawn could have ordered a group of storm troopers to harass the team from a distanced, ordered to retreat (not in the direction of the base) every time the group tries to engage them. They would be able to be enough of a nuisance to lead the group on a goose chase until Thrawn left. It doesn’t just sacrifice tens of troops, and forces the group to risk one of the harassment attempts being deadly or to spend time they don’t have to track down and take care of the troops. Instead they all engage in close combat with intent to kill but have just few enough people to lose the most resources possible while gaining nothing in return.

[@arnoldgreen4278]

@@aaronmueller1560 I agree partially. Thrawn was a lot worse in Ahsoka then in rebels, plus they did that classic thing which they also did in rebels with Governor Pryce. They use a former big bad (That night sister lady, Morgan Elseworth) and make them look super dumb so that Thrawn can correct them, in order to boost Thrawns 'intelligence'. Just make Thrawn smarter writers. Why does he need to have dumb people around him to make him look smarter? It makes him look like a normal, cookie cutter commander doing basic tactics, but everyone acts like "WoW hEs tHe bESt aDmiRal eVeR!!!" just because of the incompetence around him.

[@aaronmueller1560]

@@arnoldgreen4278 that seems to be a running theme in incompetently written shows. They are unable to write someone who makes smart decisions, and so the best they can do is make everyone around them dumber to compensate. And so the end result is that literally everyone in the show is an idiot, with one of the characters being said to be leagues above the rest while being almost equally as dumb.

[@alexh1323]

If season 2 of Ahsoka ever comes out, its going to be really hard to not have Ray Stevenson there. We left his character off in such an interesting point. Rest in Piece.

[@tinktink360]

This is the biggest problem, Dave didn’t actually write the clone wars he was the guy who made sure everything was of quality and connected.

[@vernonparker5154]

If he had those people writing Ahsoka, we just may have something of quality

[@pokexy]

IMO Andor is a better written, directed, and stylized show, whereas Ahsoka holds that love for Rebels in my heart, and I found I enjoyed the aspects that brought callbacks to Star Wars: Rebels, rather than Ahsoka herself. Is it my second favourite live action Star Wars show? Sorta? Time will tell how my perception shifts. Mando season 1 definitely holds a strong position. Does it also have really odd and jarring writing? Yes.

[@Pearlem]

So you admit the only thing ahsoka contributes is callbacks to better shows?

[@CoraCreates]

But you know, sometimes you can just like bad media for the sake of liking bad media.

[@PurpleNoir]

Everyone has their own opinions. Let’s just try to respect that

[@Pearlem]

@@PurpleNoir you are allowed to have an opinion and I’m allowed to think your opinion is wrong and bad

[@pokexy]

@@Pearlem I agree with Schafrillas on the fact that Rosario Dawson doesn't play Ahsoka well. Even in Mando s2 I wasn't too interested in her character. I was most interested in segments with the Rebels characters.

[@ChrisTheGrape]

The problem with Dave Filoni is he never solo wrote anything good that wasn't payoff. The siege of mandalore was one of the only things he solo-wrote before Ahsoka. Everything else he was involved in was co-written by actual writers. He's not a writer, he's an idea man and shouldn't be given the power he has.

[@TDM1138]

Idea man? Kinda sounds like George Lucas. Which would be interesting because it’d mean he had a similar career path to Lucas with being involved in some major early things people liked but people became less enthused with their stories as they got more power and control.

[@roxtechs]

Even then the Siege was still part of George’s notes

[@openingdown3051]

So glad that other people are mentioning this. I love his work of course, but attributing all of clone wars to him is upsettingly disingenuous. Same thing with hyping up taika waititi for ragnarok and then it turning out that it was the actual writers who made the good part so we ended up with love and thunder 💀

[@carbodude5414]

Might as well call it "Sabine" She's the only character with a clear story arc and character motive

[@ryanbalsewicz7642]

If your feeling burnt out about live action starwars, then I HIGHLY recommend starwars visions as each episode is not only a unique story but also mostly made completely differently in a new art style, which I personally find to be just magical.

[@SonicHaXD]

Ahsoka confronting Darth Vader in season 2 of Rebals is the most amazing way to end a character...too bad nothing more came after that XD

[@tommoorcroft2026]

Completely agree, that should've been her end there and then. Also love your Mk video's

[@sentientmustache8360]

Too bad Kronika altered the timeline to revive her

[@Green_MnM_Commander_of_Antifa]

​@sentientmustache8360 eh I'm glad she's still alive but yeah as far as I'm concerned Ahsoka's story ends with her and Hera nodding solemnly

[@SarpSpeaksSometimes]

AHSOKA SUCKS WHEN

[@Unagam1GD]

I love animated ezra. He's so relatable. All his little roasts are exactly what I would do if I were in his position.

[@tayh.6235]

He's a snotty little punk more than half the time, always trying be cool, deep down really needs and wants that guidance and connection Kanan and the other adults can give him.... basically a realistic teen boy. I loved seeing an older but still genuine feeling portrayal of him in this show. One of the few aspects I really enjoyed.

[@sunrise.system]

i never really got why people hated ezra so much. like, no shit he's annoying; he's a teenager. luke was annoying and whiny too but i don't see people making as big of a deal out of it.

[@TheJadedJames]

I wanted more of classic Ezra in this show. Like I want Shin to be like”Who is this asshole?” and Ezra be like “I’m Senator Jar Jar Binks, duh!”

[@Unagam1GD]

@@sunrise.system Ahsoka too. I get it, she was also hated, but that's the problem. Star Wars fans nowadays just make up the dumbest reasons to hate on Star Wars. Here's a life hack, if you're gonna hate Star Wars, maybe stop watching it?

[@peteryeeterson5766]

@@sunrise.system Difference is Ahsoka and Luke both grew up. They started whiny, but slowly got more mature throughout their character arc. Ezra started Rebels as a whiny kid, and ended Rebels as a whiny kid. He had potential to mature, but it was ultimately squandered by the show-runners who wanted to keep him “relatable” to the 6-12 y-os watching, despite the fact that he ends the show at age 19. Likely why Schaffrillas liked him better in this show, because he finally got the opportunity to mature (off-screen).

[@He-Man00]

Thank you. I have felt CRAZY for bringing these problems up. You mentioned EVERY thing I've said and it feels so good

[@ArgonApricot]

I was initially really excited and pleasantly surprised by the show bc of the soundtrack and Baylan and Shin. I fell in love with Baylan and Shin right away; they are such cool characters and their story seemed so fascinating. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten to see their actual story or discover their motivations yet. It's a devastating missed opportunity because of the death of Ray Stevenson. I was so disappointed that the finale gave us no answers or closure for either of them.

[@Sambysaurus]

I think we need to start giving George Lucas a lot more credit for the Clone Wars and how fresh and creative it was. To my understanding, a lot of those arcs and episode were his ideas and the team of people he pulled together executed on said ideas. It seems when left to his own devices, Dave isn't actually very creative at all.

[@JinxTheLooneyToon915]

I mean, is it really surprising?

[@tyler_da_wiz]

when the beginning of your comment begins with "we need to give credit to George Lucas for the clone wars", it's a sign you need to go back to the drawing board with your opinion

[@kickingbackpunchingcones4099]

dave should just work for amazon if he loves lotr so much

[@Sambysaurus]

@@tyler_da_wiz Why?

[@tyler_da_wiz]

@@Sambysaurus most everything about the Clone War eras was complete mid nonsense and y'all got your rose tinted glasses on

[@nun4hire]

Love how two lightsabers formed an "X" when he said twitter

[@mirthfulArtist]

I haven't watched Ahsoka, Andor, or BOBF yet. After The Mandalorian started name-dropping all these Clone Wars and Rebels references in Season 2, and then they announced all these new shows mentioned above, it just gave me this sinking feeling that "Streaming-era" Star Wars was done with the new and interesting perspectives, characters, and storylines that made Mando Season 1 so fun and compelling in the first place... not to mention an appropriate entry-point for new fans of the franchise. After that, I could see it was all going to sink into Prequel/Rebels/Clone Wars nostalgia-- minus the fun, energy, and extravagance of the medium of animation which made those shows appealing to me in the first place. "Re-heating" is exactly the right word for how it felt to me. It was like Dave Filoni was assigning me homework of his older work. *Hundreds* of hours of it. It didn't help that a lot of the things he was calling back to were also just things that I wasn't interested in, like Thrawn, and Mortis, for instance. I never finished CW, so I have no particular affection for all the Mandalore drama, either. Right now, I'm basically just gonna leave the live-action shows for the more ravenous and completionist fans while I wait for the next season of Bad Batch to come out. Hopefully it doesn't fall under the same curse... Though Rebels and CW characters did start to slip in last season. Maybe eventually I'll give Andor a watch, but as of yet, I'm not sure it reflects the parts of the franchise that particularly appeal to me. Basically: I wish every new series didn't have to be continuation of every old series. This basically means you have to watch years and years of backlog to wring any enjoyment out of the franchise's new offerings.

[@dylanstonemusic1614]

Favorite line of dialogue "I gave you a choice: live or die" "No.." "Incorrect" 😂😂😂

[@alpacawizardman6778]

I completely agree about the finale, it was really unsatisfying and focused too much on setting stuff up rather than wrapping up the old ones, which is, y’know, the whole point of a finale. I’ve also been kinda outspoken against Sabine being Force Sensitive, so that didn’t really sit well with me.

[@JinxTheLooneyToon915]

The finale was so batsh•t, I was fast-forwarding so many times because I just wanted this to be over and done with.

[@nickcoronado898]

I keep thinking back to LocalScriptMan's videos when I think about the Star Wars universe. He's always talking about how characters belong to a story, about how they exist to have a relationship to some theme or conflict inherent in the story being told. Everything that goes into a character: all of their hopes and motivations and flaws, are all there because they serve a particular story. I think that's why Dave Filoni has really fallen off. He loves the characters of Star Wars so much that he's removed them from the stories they were created for and tried to shove them into different ones, and it just simply doesn't work. He's not looking to tell new stories or explore new themes, he just wants to play with his favorite toys again.

[@jacklightyear5869]

Remember kids: if modern Disney makes a Star Wars show named after a character, they WILL NOT be the focus of the show.

[@user-zw3on4bx2t]

Maybe a Hondo show isn't a good idea then. . .

[@CinematicSeriesGaming]

I, for one, don't care about being seen as an elitist and I will compare every SW project to 'Andor'. 'Andor' is peak Star Wars and the best Star Wars show we've ever had, period. It's 10/10 storytelling, acting, suspense, drama, pacing, sets, the atmosphere, cinematography and everything else. I watched that show twice and I'll probably rewatch it for the 3rd time, it's just so good. I think Disney should really stop making those childish and directionless money grabs like Obi-Wan, BoBF or Ahsoka. Instead, they should make more quality shows like 'Andor'.

[@untitleduntitled4740]

One thing I’ve learned when getting excited over big franchise shows is to always be prepared for inevitable disappointment

[@praskovyakasyanenko6420]

I agree quite wholeheartedly. You didn't mention the scenes with the new republic government and I just wanted to add that I felt that those scenes were incredibly cartoony in a way that not even similar scenes in the actual animated shows were. Having Mon Mothma in them too only made me think of the incredibly profound parallel scenes with her in Andor and it was one of the things that took me out of the little enjoyment and immersion I was feeling watching this show. Also until you said it, I hadnt realised the latest episode released was even the last one, so that already says more than I ever could with words.

[@purplezombie4940]

1:22 that took me so off guard! I almost choked dude😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@greywater57]

Dang, this was a tough one to watch, not because there’s anything wrong with the review but because I’m torn. On the one hand, I understand a lot of his points and do agree with a good amount of them. On the other hand, I had so much fun with this show, and not simply due to the fan-servicey elements such as “look, here’s animated character in live-action!” Maybe I’m easily persuaded, but I do truly think that elements like the soundtrack and audio work do a lot to add to the gravitas and atmosphere of the show. It felt grandiose on a level that I haven’t felt since honestly probably the last Dooku episode of Tales, like what was happening was an actual game changer (not that something needs to be to be good, but it really helped to differentiate this show from others that have come out recently). Maybe it’s because of this severity in atmosphere (perhaps pioneered by the audio), but I didn’t have nearly as many faults with the acting as Schaff did. While I agree that Ahsoka could have done with a little more personality, considering the hardened state of her character (since her last appearance, her master died, over a decade has passed, and she clearly experienced a scare with Sabine and the Night of a Thousand Tears). I also don’t mind the cliffhanger in Baylan and Shin’s characters, the finale was already pretty packed showing Thrawn’s escape and the heroes’s desperate attempts to stop him, only to ultimately fail. I think we have enough mystery to leave me hooked, especially because there’s obviously no way they could have predicted Ray’s unfortunate passing. I also think that the combat, especially in the lightsaber duels, was pretty impressive and a wonderful balance of the slightly showier nature of prequel duels and the more grounded and practical nature of OG trilogy and sequel choreography. I will say that I 100% agree with the fact that Andor is definitely a better show, certainly with much higher-quality writing and a higher level of acting on an average basis, but I still had a lot of fun watching Ahsoka and it kind of hurts to see so many people not enjoy it quite as much as I did. Maybe it’s resting its laurels on coolness alone but BoBF kind of tried that and failed so I definitely think that this show did something more and something better to grab my attention, and it wasn’t just fan-service and cameos that did it, with some of my favorite scenes heavily involving completely original characters like Baylan, Shin, and Morgan. Maybe I need to rewatch those seasons, but I put this show at least close to Mando S1 and S2, closer to those two than to S3, Kenobi, or BoBF.

[@prime7213]

It’s very telling that the only thing I kinda liked about this show was Baylan, who is not only one of the only new characters but the only new ideas this show has period. I like seeing a fallen Jedi who hasn’t gone full Sith and that plays well off the character of Ahsoka. Both have left the Jedi officially but while Ahsoka still leans on the teachings Baylan is leaning the other direction while never going full dark side. The dynamic had a lot of potential and I wish we had seen Baylan used as more of a tool to further explore Ahsoka’s conflicted stance on Jedi. But that’s probably too much to ask for these days.