Air Force B-52 Crashes Shortly After TakeOff in Guam | Deadly Celebration

[@marka8947]

As an ex B-52G Crew Chief, the stab trim was very important. Before every launch, power was brought up and i had to stand back by the tail on interphone and verify the movement of the stab trim up, down, up, down, then verify the final setting by the location of the stab leading edge in relation to the pitch setting numbers on the fuselage. You definitely made sure you stood out of the way of the exhaust! It was very loud even with headphones on..

[@JamesGipson-xx6ny]

My father worked on B-52's in the early 80's when we were stationed at Anderson AFB Guam. Back then he was in OMS

[@bigwookie1973]

Thanks for presenting this accident. I remember the day so clearly. I was then still an active-duty Loadmaster Instructor on a Navy C-130T. We were third in line for takeoff out of Guam that morning, heading to Palau. Like any aviation buff, we all watched the B-52 power up and take off. It is burned in my memory. They climbed out and outta site. We took off and headed to Palau. It wasn't until we landed a few hours later that we learned they had crashed. We all wondered why; we didn't get diverted to help look for survivors. Well now I know. I will pass this to my fellow crewmembers from that day. I still fly with one of them as a contractor now. Thanks again.

[@oldftrpilot2593]

Looks like they just slowed down too much and had so much nose up trim that when it stalled they didn’t recognize what was happening. Similar thing happened in the early 70s out of Guam when the crew thought they were in a high speed dive when in fact, they were in a stall. Some buff guys fly for years and don’t understand basic pitch and power. It is not taught in AF flight training. 😢

[@myusername630]

Thank you so much for presenting this accident to us. I was just entering SAC at Wurtsmith AFB, Oscoda, Michigan. Our base had just taken delivery of the first H, tail 60001 and coming right out of jet bomber maint of B 47 it was a great honor to have been placed there in the very beginning. Our base and K I Sawyer received the first two squadrons of the H. We got the odd tails and Ki got the even ones. I fell deeply in love with these unbelievable beasts and enjoyed every minute of it. You mentioned the "Stratofortress" as part of the name. I thought I would contribute why that was and how the plane outlived a number of changes in it's life. In the beginning of it's life not many aircraft could attack the 52 for a number of reasons. One of the biggest was the fact of it's ceiling. All the challenging aircraft couldn't reach the altitude of the 52 and if they could it would be from the tail, thus the tail gun. Another thing in your video, which I think it was fantastic, had a G model 52 instead of a H. The two differences are the following. One, the H has the TF33P7 engine and the G still had the older engines. Second, only the G and the H had the flat vertical tail finn. All other 52's had the pointed tail finn. The third major differences of the 52's were where the tail gunner was positioned. In the earlier versions the tail gunner was stationed at the rear with the gun and the newer versions moved the tail gunner as cockpit crew and they sat next to the EWO officer in the back of the cockpit. I did not know about this crash as I finnished my four years just two weeks before our birds were sent to Guam for the war. Please do not take offense of this post because I do not in anyway think that your production was anything but great and I am glad I know this even though it really makes me sad. I have many stories about all of this bird but I am 80 June 30 and I just couldn't get talking about it. That sad part of it is that the H has gone through so many changes and all those transitions got lost over the years. For instance, notice that the pilot is a Major and the copilot is a captain and now the pilots are Captains and the Copilots are lieutenants . When the first H's were delivered the Pilots were Full Colonels and the Copilots were Lt Colonels. While I was still there in the end Pilots were now Majors and on it went. All this had to do with the "Boss, Gen LeMay." This man was a great influence to me. I learned so much from him working in his era. Sorry I was so windy and I am so proud of the 70 plus we still have in the air and also that she will outlive me by almost twice my age. Again, thanks

[@zigman8550]

myusername630 My uncle was stationed at Wurtsmith AFB in the early to mid 1960's in the Air Defence Command flying the F-101 Voodoo. He told me that they would fly intercept missions on Gen. LeMay's SAC B-52's to see if the bombers could avoid the fighters. The B-52's had a hard deck of 500 ft. above Lake Huron but the one my uncle was after cheated and went below the hard deck to about 100 ft. above the lake. My uncle got next to him a turned on his navigation lights and scared the crap out of him. The F-101's were shooting down the BUFF's (simulated) left and right. Gen. LeMay was chewing on his cigar and watching his heavy bombers being shot down and I don't think he tried that exercise again.

[@myusername630]

@@zigman8550 hi, our alert area was right at the end of the runway so the BUFF's could high speed taxi from the Christmas tree right onto the runway for immediate take off. Our sleeping quarters were right at the end of the runway also. I remember waking up to the sound of the Voo Doos touching off the ab's when they reached the beginning of the runway and kept the hammer down. The trailers we slept in sounded like they were going to blow up. Hard to sleep those nights. Also the VOO DOOS would rotate straight up and I would imagine they kept that up till they reached thin air before leveling out. You should ask your uncle if he was there when the 445th lost the lead of a 4 ship up over the UP. I was out on the ramp on top of my H and watched them take off. Then about 45 minutes later they flew over the base at full throttle doing the formation of missing man flying. They had lost the head of the squadron I think it was. That event really got to me. We heard some of the stories of what happened and it was horrible. It was a bright sun shiney day that turned dark in a hurry. The VOO DOO story is as interesting as the BUFF story is.

[@MyCatInABox]

Thank you for the interesting comments, and thank you for your service 🫡

[@Skatejock21]

I think its great when people can share personal experiences. The video is so well made and you were able to add an experience onto it and share what maybe there was not a space to add into the video for.

[@h8GW]

I probably would've been more offensive if I pointed out that they didn't use proper models of the F-15E, but considering they played no part in the incident, I thought it was unimportant to bring up.

[@jasonkelly3159]

I left Guam the day before this happened. The doctor that was on board had seen me for a minor foot issue a week prior. God rest their souls.

[@TurboMountTV]

What was a doctor doing on board?

[@jasonkelly3159]

@@TurboMountTV Retirement flight

[@Pilot545]

@@TurboMountTVFlight doc, too. Not unusual at all.

[@UKsoldier45]

RIP to these 6 wonderful heroes. Please be assured here in the UK we are all aware that we will always owe our American brothers and sisters a genuine debt of gratitude for your faithful service and dedication. Allies and friends together - always!!

[@robertmog4336]

Amen, and thank God for the most skilled and courageous RAF too! - from America

[@pou618]

♥️

[@ErnieJJr1476er]

Bless You All Britain, May The HOLY UNFAILING GOD BE WITH YOU & YOURS, The SAME GOD WHO SAVED HER, HENRY'S (8TH) DAUGHTERS, MARY BECAUSE OF ELIZABETH) WHO REIGNED FOR 40Yrs. Mary & Elizabeth Also do We LIFT UP also According To Christ OUR Savior, The Visitation, Mother of JESUS OUR LORD IN CARNAL WITH US ONCE, AND NOW IN THE SOLID HOLY ELEMENTAL SPIRIT along With Elisebeth Amen. MAD COw Disease is any Human or Those inflicted before His Outreach was placed On Earth Now Born & Then Created From Scratch On Earth With GOD's Way, Introducing US All to The Living Adam & Even, to Hear First Then see Our HOLY Maker, Commandment Thou shall not Forsake Thy Lord's Grace To Fatten To Kill, Slaughter, and Hypocritically Devour Is At Hand To End All Diseases Related along With The Forbidden In The Tree of Knowledge.

[@grahamlourens6384]

Gratitude for what exactly..? For dragging you're sons and daughters into illegal wars for oil..? Well, needless to say, I hope you sink with America when it goes down, and it will.

[@DavidRLentz]

Thank you and God bless you and yours. 🇬🇧🇺🇲

[@maakboomah434]

I remember this one, very close to home sadly, left a lot of us in shock. Knew the flight surgeon, he'd often drop by our hooch to talk story with our crews while we were there at Andersen during that same period. Absolutely floored when we heard the BUFF went down that day, even more so when word came that all were lost, including the Col. Very sad day.

[@f.4659]

What really happened? This animation is not clear at all. I don’t know b52, How is possible that in some minutes the crew did not eject nor regain control on manual trim? Usually is a marked breaker or some other fast item ready available to pilots. I lost a couple of friends on a possible trim runaway at low altitude on a Pilatus Porter!

[@maakboomah434]

@@f.4659 Honestly don't know what actually happened, but talk of runaway trim was frequent. Did talk with some of the E model guys that were there with us during that TSP, but only second hand info. Didn't know any of the guys that flew alongside the BUFF. Crazy thing, I was offered a fam-flight riding jump seat on a BUFF less than a week before.

[@smithbf36832]

@@f.4659 34 SECONDS total elapsed time from nose-over to impact. No minutes involved.

[@trevorregay9283]

man, the title and the intro to this vid, pretty much set the tone that there was not going to be a happy ending to this one. RIP and Thanx for you service, Airmen!

[@Mark16v15]

Of course, no one knows exactly what happened, but as a former B-52H AC back in the 1980s, I have what I consider a reasonable guess: an aggressive pilot-initiated rapid descent followed by a trim malfunction. Most training missions I flew on had a low level bombing run. Often we would either have to descend rather quickly by ATC or just wanted to in order to practice simulating a proper reaction to a threat, which was to get the aircraft low to the ground as quickly as possible, thus making it harder for radars to see us. To do that required significantly pushing the control column forward, and even putting out the airbrakes, both which required forward trimming the aircraft down. And to be honest, when 90% of a typical B-52 mission was boring straight-and-level flying, such maneuvers were also fun to do (at least for us pilots). Now having done this dozens of times before, including pulling out in time safely, my guess is that to better take advantage of the training aspect of sortie (and maybe also have a little fun and/or desire to impress their doctor guest), the pilots decided to practice evading a threat with a rapid descent. That may explain why they requested to ATC to descend like they did, making sure there were no other aircraft around to worry about. With the sortie sort of being all about fun (an airshow flyover), they may have even been a little more aggressive about the descent than usual. So what happened after that? My continued guess is that when the pilot went to pull back on the control column, including using aft trim, just like he had done safely for years, nothing happened, or the trim started going opposite of his input. It would probably take a pilot several seconds, second-guessing himself, just to determine if he was pushing the trim button the right way, or reading the rotation of the wheel correctly, looking at the other pilot, both wondering what in the world was going on. With little altitude left to work with, those seconds were just too long to survive the situation. Besides being a former pilot, I'm also a mechanical engineer, and thus have something to add about that. One of the early concerns regarding the B-52 was metal fatigue. (For lack of a better term, as a design criteria, metal fatigue is somewhat "mysterious", at least compared to other aspects of mechanical engineering, and thus can be very hard to calculate exactly.) To keep the aircraft's weight down, the wings were made to flex rather than be rigid (which requires more structure and thus more weight). The unknown was how long such a design would last. Everyone knows that if you take a wire and bend it back and forth just a little bit, you can do that forever without breaking the wire, but if you bend it back and forth "a lot", it will eventually break, which is called "metal fatigue". What exactly is "a lot", as hinted at earlier, can be very difficult for engineers to determine, if it can be determined at all. Initially, Boeing gave the Air Force a certain expected service life for the plane (I think about a couple of decades), but through testing and experience, determined that metal fatigue wasn't affecting the wings, so later extended the service life of the aircraft well beyond its original design. (Some are talking about a 100 years now.) Now that's just the wings. Obviously, there are many more other metal components to a B-52 that go through cyclic loading besides the wings--like the hydraulic-screw-actuator mechanism of the trim. Maybe it failed due to metal fatigue, but in a crash, such could be impossible to determine if that was the cause or the crash itself was the cause. And who knows what all else metal-wise in a B-52 is failure waiting to happen due to fatigue. At a certain point, if such mysterious failures start occurring more frequently, Boeing engineers will have to tell the Air Force that it's time to retire the aircraft; they just can't tell where all the problems might be, and therefore can't guarantee its performance any longer. RIP my BUFF brothers.

[@robertholmesiii4165]

Thank you for your service and insight

[@Mark16v15]

@@robertholmesiii4165 You're very kind; thank you.

[@maxcorder2211]

I recall seeing this tragic video once before. Now that I have spent time reading the comments, including yours, I reflect back on my own experience with the B-52D model. I was an aircraft commander (27 yr old Captain) during the operation called "Bullet Shot" in 1972 when we flew most of the airplanes from our squadron at McCoy AFB to Guam to begin the intensified bombing campaign against the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong. After a couple of months flying South Vietnam missions out of Guam, my crew transferred to Utapao Thailand, where B-B2's were flying missions around the clock. Starting in May, as I recall, we began to hit targets in N Vietnam. B-52's had never gone North during the entire war until then. In December, 1972, President Nixon ordered the use of B-52's to hit targets in the Haiphong and Hanoi areas during what was known as the "11 Days Of Christmas" campaign. I flew several of those missions. On one in particular, we were exposed to several SAM sites and the lead B-52 in our cell was shot down. Five SAM's were launched at our aircraft, according to our EW. Only one of those was guided and I could see all of the missiles coming up through the cloud deck below us. One in particular was tracking with us and the EW said, "I think that one's got us". We had been instructed not to attempt to evade missiles so as to maintain best EW jamming by the entire cell of 3 B-52's. However, with lead being shot down our collective jamming effect was substantially reduced. I watched the missile and as it got to a position where I felt the time had come, I put the airplane into a steep dive. I don't recall if I used trim or not. The missile passed right in front of us and exploded overhead. We had no damage. I noticed that the copilot had the throttles pushed forward, so I pulled them back, raised the airbrakes to the maximum and pulled the yoke back. We climbed back to our prescribed altitude, recovered our track to the target, dropped the bombs and go the hell out of there. I was not aware that a dive could cause the type of uncontrollable condition that the H model in the video had. Hopefully it was a single airplane failure and not one that could threaten the entire remaining fleet. I assume changes in or emphasis on descent procedures were implemented. Thank you for your service and your expertise in addressing the issue. IMHO the D model is the greatest war machine since the chariot. It never failed me in more than 100 combat missions.

[@Eseseso494]

B-52 planes cannot catch a break on this channel. Uncontrollable planes are also always the scariest crashes to me. RIP to all 6 crew members.

[@grmpEqweer]

They've been in service forever, is all, so there would have been crashes. They're really tough planes.

[@brettbanta2100]

Same with DC-8 and DC-10's. I'd never fly in one of those things

[@briancooper2112]

​@Steve Robinson show respect for the dead 6 hero's sob.

[@jeffreymcdonald8267]

@Steve Robinson Who cares ? The dead air crews mom's, dad's, wives and children. Thats who.

[@DBEdwards]

EVER CONSIDER IT MIGHT BE THE B-52 ILL CAPACITY/AGE and not the Channel? Think about it. It's always easy to kill the messenger.

[@joedraneiii6390]

The flight surgeon on that aircraft was my flight surgeon when I was the medical group commander on Guam. He was indeed a fine officer and outstanding flight surgeon. When I departed Guam on rotation to Germany in 2000, then LtCol Martin was being considered for astronaut training. What a horrific loss.

[@ЕвгенийКурочкин-б4н]

Не понял, он там в полете аппендицит удалял?

[@jerryfrelix6774]

We lost a 52D model in the 60s off of Patties point Anderson AFB Guam. I still think about that crash. I was a KC-135 crew chief, what a wonderful aircraft to refuel. I also trained on the B 47 in maintenance school at Amarillo AFB Texas. My heartfelt condolences to the families.

[@michelleschaaf2360]

Josh Shepherd was my student in seventh grade; my heart hurt so much when I learned he had died…Rest in Peace Josh ✝️

[@EE-ie9gm]

This is why I hate flying

[@markthomas4083]

I feel for you Michelle. Thank you for posting the positive comment on Mr Josh.

[@kalliou6up]

@@EE-ie9gmI felt the same until I realized stuff just happens

[@michaelfarranto-wg6zw]

UNPARALLELED COMMENT SIR! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMPASSION 🙏🕊️✌️😄

[@supafly322]

Shame to see such outstanding aircrew loose their lives to unrecoverable situations like these.

[@brettmerrick8271]

lose, not loose. Loose= opposite of tight. Lose= opposite of win. I am NOT picking on you, but this word is so commonly misspelled I can't take it anymore.

[@Link2edition]

@@brettmerrick8271 I am right there with you dude.

[@dodoubleg2356]

Agreed 👍 😢

[@bearing_aficionado]

@Brett Merrick THANK YOU!!! I cannot stand it anymore either.

[@TroysSweetCornhole]

*Lose Not loose

[@dallasguy3306]

Such a tragedy. As a kid, I worked summers for my uncle, who owned a landscaping business in Fort Worth. A particular job was in the flight path of the former Carswell Air Force Base. If you've ever been under a B-52 on takeoff, you'll never forget it. Also, forget conversation, for at least a minute. Excellent presentation.

[@josemoreno3334]

I used to get a kick watching B-52s take off and land a March AFB, California.

[@privatepilot4064]

My Dad lived about 20 miles from Wurtsmith AFB in Michigan. He lived in a heavily forested area and many times I’d be in the woods hunting or just exploring. Then out of nowhere a B-52 would fly over just above the trees and he’d be hot! You couldn’t hear them coming because they were so low and the trees absorbed the noise until it was almost on top of you! It would startle the crap out of me!

[@davidkellymitchell4747]

I lived in White Settlement. If I got up early I could watch the F-16's doing maneuvers.

[@dallasguy3306]

@@davidkellymitchell4747 We lived in White Settlement on WS Road. In fact, my grandfather was once mayor of White Settlement. Years ago we went back, and the house was gone, replaced by Circle J Fabrications.

[@davidkellymitchell4747]

@@dallasguy3306 Small world. I ran a recording studio in Ft. Worth.

[@Chimera700]

Such a sad tragedy, my heart goes out to the crew and their families.

[@jeffreymcdonald8267]

@Steve Robinson Steve you obviously have not had people in your life that have shown you love and respect. Your not alone in that buddy.

[@FarmerDrew]

The fact that stab trim was 5.0 degree down upon impact, that's the most touching part, that they were working hard, doing their jobs, to the very end

[@maudessen573]

TFC, thanks once again for using upper and lower case screen text for improved legibility. You put so much effort into making these wonderful videos, and this one had a lot of important text.

[@robertmog4336]

My family was stationed at Kadena AFB on Okinawa when the fully loaded B-52 crashed on takeoff in 1970 as I recall. The crash and weapons detonation bounced my brother out of bed, but I slept through it. That was a very bad day on Kadena.

[@paulfreeman7719]

I was on Okinawa Sep 72..and on KAB often. I'll have to research this event.

[@JBReynolds1]

There may have been two, but I was a kid living at Kadena and recall one that crashed in Nov. 1968. I would have been in second grade at Sukiran Elementary.

[@robertmog4336]

@@JBReynolds1 I was in 2nd grade too. I can't remember the name of the school on Kadena that I went to but it seemed to be on a hill, or part of it was.

[@jameslogan4782]

Flew B52 D models back in the 70's. Two things, from the first day of combat crew training school where you transition from whatever aircraft you came from to become a B-52 pilot or co-pilot, at least back in the 70's, they mentioned the dangers of runaway pitch trim and how to deal with it. In every simulator ride, you expected the trim to "runaway" when you least expected it. I expect these pilots were still trained to expect it and deal with it in the same manner, so it seems to me something mechanical prevented them from removing or stopping the trim from moving. Second, 15 seconds isn't very long for the pilots to diagnose what is going on and communicate to the crew, who was expecting a left turn and descent, so when it got a bit steeper, they would have noticed, but remember, nobody but the pilots can really see out a window in a B52, so its hard to realize what is happening unless the pilots are communicating via intercom. When the pilot ejected, which he did as a last resort, the big red "eject" light goes on over every crew station. Crewmembers are trained to understand that when that light goes on, one of two things has happened, the pilot has either given the eject command by flipping a switch, or as we use to say "Elvis has left the building", that is the pilot in command has ejected and nobody is driving anymore so you need to leave....I expect that is what happened. Slow reaction times from the copilot and EW, who had upward ejection seats, but honestly, probably were having a hard time processing what was happening until it was too late...

[@rpm12091]

Never run out of ideas and altitude at the same time.

[@vincenorman9291]

737 Max...have to be quick. Stab off, trim manual. I believe one of those 737's crashed with autopilot still engaged?

[@mosa4688]

Thanks for your information. But did the pilot in command actually eject? The video says all 3 crew members attempting to eject failed.

[@burtvincent1278]

I watched from the IP seat as the stabilator trim spun like a top during conventional bomb release intervelometer controlled, 1971 D models Viet Nam. Thought it was a normal autopilot function. Maybe this autopilot function failed to disconnect.

[@bayknight20]

Sounds like at that low level it is a design flaw

[@enigmawyoming5201]

Absolutely OUTSTANDING job of presenting this event. I really appreciate your use of text instead of vocal dialogue, so I can pause and absorb what is being conveyed. Sure, close captioning MIGHT work, but often CC doesn’t translate accurately. The info and pictures of the crew really gets me more involved in the event. You always amaze me, and I always highly recommend this channels on other KZbin channels regarding aviation. I just mention TFC and my comment will get many thumbs up and comments agreeing how you have an exceptional effort and detailed attention, along with a sincere reverence to lives lost in your presentation.

[@pablorubio8287]

thank you for bringing back the intros. Also want to mention thank you for putting such time and effort to making a video every week considering that is a very tight schedule. Been here since 2 years ago and this has become one of my favorite channels. Wish you the best and again thank you, bye!

[@abathens]

No! We don't want the intros. It's a spoiler from the get go. But I'll still continue to watch either way.

[@pablorubio8287]

@@abathens yes but that is what makes TheFlightChannel unique. With the intros the viewers stay watching the video as they don't know how it happened or how it ends

[@abathens]

@Pablo Rubio that is a good point. And I love this channel. I have been watching 👀 for a long time.

[@intrstrnr]

The intros need to go bye-bye. They ruin the flow and effect of the video...

[@margeebechyne8642]

Heartbreaking. The low altitude made it impossible for them. Just not enough time to evaluate and correct. Hope they are resting in peace. Thank you for a great presentation.

[@Just_Smile-n2w]

Thank you for changing the font and to upper and lower case text. It really helps!

[@davebuts1921]

It is hard to believe they were not able to eject, Yes I know it was outside the safe ejection envelope, but a small chance is better than NO chance, it should be up to humans to make that choice, not a machine.

[@tomwalsh6774]

Yea thought that was a bit weird. Does it mean the whole ejection system doesn’t physically work if the planes not within the parameters? Like you say, you’d try anything to escape if you’re about to crash. Also, does the roof come off like a fighter jet for the ejection process?

[@bradmarcum2927]

2 of the 6 seats eject downward from the bottom so those are goners for sure.

[@jaredt9858]

It comes down to a few things, can the system function properly outside the envelope mainly, and is there enough time for hatch to leave, then seat, then parachute, etc. If you're screaming down to the water at that speed, you may not have one or all of those parameters to get safely under the parachute.

[@dannicatzer305]

@@jaredt9858 True but you have even less of a chance staying in the plane...

[@jaredt9858]

@@dannicatzer305 that's not the point of what I was saying. If they tried to eject, nothing prevented the process from starting. What that means is, they pulled the ejection handle and before they could leave the aircraft and get a good parachute, they impacted the water.

[@donaldsalkovick396]

I love when these shows call it a Big ugly fat "fella" you know dam well that's not the word they use

[@grmpEqweer]

😂 it's the big ugly fat f••ker (BUFF). I forget which general named them.

[@g-man2228]

😂

[@craftpaint1644]

They probably just say "BUFF," but whatever.

[@SilveniumTheDrifter]

They are givin' a fuuuuuuuuu.... about that monotization!

[@maidsua4208]

Thanks for all the work you put into these movies! I mostly watch these movies since I'm terrified of flying. I have flown a lot in my life, but suddenly one day the anxiety came when I was at Kastrup, Copenhagen and going home. What makes it extra hard to watch these films is that you see the images of the people who have lost their lives. RIP and God bless all our military who do such an important job for all of us who believe in freedom and democracy.

[@jackshittle]

Well put my friend :-)

[@rossbrown6641]

Rubbish! Highly paid guys in a billion-dollar killing machine, and they messed up!

[@jackshittle]

@@rossbrown6641 You've never made a mistake in life? Or a mistake while driving? Every pilot out there (military, civilian & including me) has made their fair share of mistakes. It's the way we learn & hopefully do not repeat them. It must be nice to go through life error free.

[@rgarlinyc]

Oh.... this is wrenching. Imagine the loss to the nation, if not the world, of six men of such talent, experience and inherent brilliance - that is the real tragedy, to stop an excellently adept person's life while he or she was just in their 30s. Great recounting TFC, thsnks a lot!

[@stingginner1012]

The B-52 all models and KC-135 have all had problems with runaway trim controls. It scares the begees out of you on the ground even. It is rare but happens. Taking off from Anderson is unique due to the instant altitude. During Vietnam we lost a G-Model off the end of the runway because the lifeboat in the pilots ejection seat inflated pushing him against the controls. The only survivor was the gunner who turned around and observed the copilot with his feet on the instrument panel trying to pull up. The gunner ejected.

[@MrChopsticktech]

Can you eject without an order?

[@b.t.356]

This broke my freaking heart. I have family members who have served in the military, as well as friends and acquaintances who are currently serving. One acquaintance is an Air Force pilot and I've known them for ten years now. I also have one relative who is in currently in the military and another relative who is a military spouse. Those poor airmen, may they RIP.

[@95birdman]

I work Airport Management in Guam at Andersen, we're all taught about the multiple accidents that have occurred here, hoping to prevent future ones. Still working projects on clearing out the on-base mishap from a few years ago.

[@ricbarker4829]

If the trim runaway happened whilst the auto pilot was engaged, the aircrew may not have identified the issue until the autopilot gave up trying to control the aircraft. In this scenario, when the autopilot cannot overcome the trim, it will disconnect and the aircraft will violently pitch up or down as the trim will have moved significantly. This could explain the sudden pushover and why the trim was able to go so far before they had a chance to hit the trim runaway switch.

[@thisherehandleIdospout]

A well-done recreation that manages not to be sensationalist, and is (imo) respectful to the memory of those involved. A welcome surprise in a video like this!

[@DLRPyro1]

The B-52 has a stab trim cutoff switch located on the pilots side of the throttle quadrant and can be used to cut power to the hydraulic motor controlling the stab trim jackscrew. One of it's purposes is to stop a runaway stab. Whatever happened to the stab trim must have been so sudden and violent the crew couldn't react in time and kill power to the stab trim motor and manually reset the trim to a nose up attitude manually with the trim wheel.

[@kcrsxtypes]

Or the installation of that button was a result of this mishap?

[@DLRPyro1]

@Anchor _ possible. It is a simple toggle switch with a guarded cover that is on when the cover is down. It's possible the crew was so involved trying to recover the aircraft they couldn't lift the switch guard to move the toggle switch to the off position.

[@jimb3137]

Or it was a more physical issue, meaning the jack screw broke or jammed as/after it presumably (because most of what is seen in the text here as proof is flat out conjecture) went haywire. Note that the B-52s spend a lot of time training at very low levels, it is also a combat aircraft. I would expect any combat aircraft to be easily capable and trustworthy of handling a normal descending rate, standard turn rate descending turn in either direction at 14000'

[@ricbarker4829]

@@kcrsxtypes Most, if not all, aircraft that have electric trim will have trim interrupt switches.

[@DLRPyro1]

@jim b Good point. Alaska Air lost a MD80 off the coast of California when the stab trim jackscrew broke in flight due to lack of lubrication. When I crewed on BUFFs in the '80s we had a maintenance check to inspect and lube the stab trim jackscrew regularly. The stab trim jackscrew on a BUFF is easily accessible from the 47 section and about 3 inches in diameter so it would take alot for it to fail but you can't disconnect metal fatigue on a 50 year plus airframe.

[@friendlyavocado4319]

My dad actually knew Michael Dodson. They went to university together at Embry-Riddle University in Prescott Arizona. Michael was originally from San Antonio by the way. They graduated together in 1999. My dad now flies for Southwest, while Michael was in the ROTC. Michael’s nickname was “Beer” cus whenever he said the word beer, his accent would come out. My dad and him lost contact after University, but it really hit my dad hard knowing he had died, and is only finding out 15 years later. Great video by the way! My dad and I watch them together since he is a pilot, and uses them to teach me many things about aviation.

[@ilovetotri23]

Thanks for the video! Mishap? Seriously...highly skilled, highly trained and well respected people lost their lives that day for no reason. It was a tragedy!

[@michaelfarranto-wg6zw]

Thank you @UK soldier for that wonderful super comment. RIP all the brave English Armed Forces Veterans who gave their life's for our Freedom!!

[@MattUFL]

So sad. RIP to all on board. I wonder if the fault with the stabilizer trim mechanism was a maintenance failure or just a fluke mechanical failure that happened mid-flight.

[@sonshinetres4541]

My son is an active duty airman. The panic I felt watching this was almost too much. What a tragic loss for the AF and the families of these airmen.

[@ujansengupta9614]

Love the intro, it sets the tone and adds a different type of sensation. Idk why it was discontinued for sometime before.

[@slyguyaction]

I can't speak for everybody but you're right - it does set the tone and adds to the video. I was glad to see and hear the intro back.

[@papabear562]

I served on Guam at Andersen AFB from 1986-1989. Best military assignment I ever had. Tricky place to land and take off from because the runway dipped in the middle. Great job with the video, God bless those airmen.

[@TR-zx1lc]

8:29 You list the B-52H as the final model of B-52, but in the past several months plans have been made to upgrade the remaining fleet to B-52J. Some will be B-52I temporarily (as the new classifications have to do with various electronics uprades along with engine replacements, so some will have part of these modifications made first and will be "I" and others straight to "J," but eventually the I variants will be finished to J).

[@grmpEqweer]

Cool. Are they still producing the airframe itself, or just sort of doing a "ship of Theseus" thing where they just keep rebuilding the same plane?

[@bobmartin4942]

​@@grmpEqweer no they are not producing new airframes. These will be airframes that were built in 1960-1962 and modified to the new specification.

[@grmpEqweer]

@@bobmartin4942 Thanks.

[@chrisplunkett2814]

@@grmpEqweer By the time they get to have been in service for the planned 100 years,they'll be like Trigger's broom from only Fools and Horses.

[@grandmasterpu]

I isn’t used in MDS designations. It’ll go straight from H to J

[@gwiyomikim5988]

FYI : B-52 fleet being upgraded to Rolls-Royce engines (more efficient, cleaner, lower maintenance cost) extending bomber’s life to 2050’s.

[@waynejohnson1304]

Why can't someone invent a computer voice assistance program that monitors every aspect of the plane and would tell the Pilots exactly what needs to be done when one system fails so they have enough time to react? For example, in this case, once the computer detected that the elevators were stuck, it would automatically tell the Pilot to use the manual system.

[@chrisplunkett2814]

Maybe because it would have to be programmed by a fallible human who would need to imagine every possible failure for it to fully work as intended.

[@None-zc5vg]

@@chrisplunkett2814 Maybe a TEAM of people studying all the "what ifs" they could come up with would be more likely to cover most of the accidents-waiting-to-happen. Surely all this "ironing out" work should be done even before the test flights of the first prototypes.

[@uberlpn]

I was stationed there right after basic and tech training in 1981! Thank you to those heroes for the ultimate sacrifice for our country and liberties!!!

[@ecclestonsangel]

That's an awful tragedy. Those poor airmen. I must admit to being very surprised there were no black boxes on the plane. I thought they were mandatory for all aircraft. If they're not mandatory for military aircraft, maybe they should be. That way, if someone crashes, they can piece together a better picture of what happened. It might bring the families peace of mind. My heart goes out to the families of these brave airmen.

[@G_de_Coligny]

Sounds like a catch22. On one side you want to recover the black boxes after a crash, but you want them destroyed in case the plane is shot down behind enemy lines

[@jaredt9858]

The age of the aircraft plays into the lack of black box, the B-52 is not mandated to have a lot of systems that more modern aircraft have.

[@TacitDragon]

Some military aircraft do have Cockpit Voice Recorders and Flight Data Recorders. However, tactical aircraft may not because of security reasons.

[@mcraft2240]

I agree. It has to be for security reasons.

[@jaredt9858]

@@TacitDragon most modern military aircraft have flight data recorders (black box).

[@tomsmith2013]

Another exceptional edition. Thank you.

[@MrPLC999]

Seems to me whenever something goes wrong in a multi-engine cockpit, the first reaction is to reach for the checklists, then call the company for advice. But when you've only got seconds to live, somebody better do something tangible immediately.

[@jerrymarshall2095]

Right and with general aviation and the passenger jets the ATC is cutting in and all the warning chimes to add to the pucker effect.

[@chefsvision2664]

Very good video with everything explained. I watch your videos when you just upload. Awesome content man!!!

[@gailpeterson3747]

Kudos for another very well-made video. So sad the crew lost their lives to an unrecoverable control problem. RIP to the airmen and condolences to their family and friends.

[@rossbrown6641]

Mate, they didnt know how to control this billion-dollar machine. Who pays? Poor Americans!

[@gailpeterson3747]

@@rossbrown6641 Both pilots were extremely experienced in flying the B52. The issue regarding the length of time it takes for an individual to recognize a serious flight problem was well-documented in the Sully Hudson River ditching. IIRC it took somewhere between 6-10 seconds just to mentally process the fact that something was wrong. In light of that and the fact that the trim on a runaway stabilizer in a B52 would have had to be manually operated, there was no functional time left for the plane to be recovered. A very sad event. 😢

[@mobimek1171]

I like the new font - it's much easier for me to read than the previous all-caps captions. I don't know if anyone else feels that way haha. Great video as usual!

[@las2665]

Imagine being unable to eject as you decend steep and fast to the ocean 😢

[@davebuts1921]

It is hard to believe they were not able to eject, Yes I know it was outside the safe ejection envelope, but a small chance is better than NO chance, it should be up to humans to make that choice, not a machine.

[@las2665]

@@davebuts1921 yes you are right

[@robmausser]

@@davebuts1921 I am trying to understand what they mean by this. Was it literally impossible to eject? Or, did they eject and then lose their lives from the G forces or impacts etc following the unsafe ejection?

[@spacecoastz4026]

Imagine not being able to pull your aircraft out of a dive or descending configuration. Why would an aircraft not properly respond to controls?

[@nohandleleft]

@@robmausser They ejected out of envelope and were killed on impact with the water. As long as the seats are armed, ejection will occur if the handles are pulled. Always.

[@benrivera5507]

I was in Guam when this occurred, part of a squad sent to look for survivors , we were so tired after hrs on the beach at the base of Anderson AFB that it was decided to pluck us off the beach by helicopter. what an experience, one I will never forget.

[@michealcorleone665]

great video! there was a b-52 crash that happened in the 70s in Orlando FL i hope you cover that some day👍

[@deepthinker999]

It is already on KZbin.

[@kentonbrown937]

What a great video! I found myself yelling (to myself) "Bailout, bailout, bailout," but, of course, 20-30 seconds - while checking EP's - just wasn't enough time, no matter how experienced the crew was. Reminds us of the Fairchild crash where at least one crew member attempted ejection, but too late. - another "air show demo" flight disaster...

[@stephenmonken1337]

The horizontal stabilizer has a control wheel, much like the pitch wheel on a blimp, that can be moved by hand to introduce small adjustments in trim. When the crew uses the flight control toggle button, the stab trim wheel moves in response to the input. If the stab trim makes any adjusts the flight crew would know immediately. If the stab trim moves without the flight crew knowing then there is a major mechanical breakdown. The B-52 equipment has a jack screw as well as a rotating nut that accelerates the movement by counter rotating the input, sort of like turning a nut on a rotating bolt. If the flight crew saw the stab trim wheel moving without input they could shut off the hydraulic power to it and stop it's movement. Something doesn't sound right with this story.

[@goldiegolderman1842]

The majority of aircraft crashes in the military are targeted assassinations of personnel who "saw too much and have to go". Sad, but true.

[@dmsdmullins]

Probably an electric motor driving the jackscrew not hydraulic. They have cutoff switches juts for this reason (runaway stab-trim).

[@Pstaines439]

Agreed. Broken jack screw sounds possible

[@stephenmonken1337]

@@dmsdmullins Worked on hydraulic systems on B-52's for 3 years. D models, G and H models. It's hydraulic with one driving the jack screw and one driving the rotating nut.

[@ChristianMaximus-mp6gr]

Nobody asked for your opinion!

[@riprapter6322]

I was a Loadmaster on C 141A. The crew were always aware and looking for runaway stabilizer trim. Engineers, pilots, and anyone riding a jump seat were watching indications for trim problems. When I rode jump pilots told me to help watch indicators and outside the craft for wing walker or traffic in the area especially below 10,000 ft (ca. 3 km).

[@Picture_That_With_A_Kodak]

Brilliant work and dedication Flight Channel ✈️ 👏

[@mrard1]

My friend and Deputy Commander, Doc George Martin died on that plane. I was stationed with him in Guam. This video is the first I’ve seen of the crash and the details associated. Thank you for putting this together. RIP RAIDR21!

[@peterkoln2837]

Thank you for creating this video. Awesome work!

[@dougpine]

Great video but the morning bird sounds are funny because there are very few birds on Guam. The introduction of the brown tree snake wiped them out.

[@brax2364]

BUFF = Big Ugly Fat Fella?? Uh…. That’s the sanitized version for civilians with tender ears.

[@higgydufrane]

You have to wonder when the individual aircrew members realized they were screwed. I thank God I have never been in such a situation.

[@las2665]

Cool you put a new writing version, it is better readable 😊

[@DavidBeckman-e2o]

I was on the salvage ship (ARS-39) sent out to search for survivors, recover any bodies and any debris. After several days all we found was a landing gear with the tires. At the supposed crash site it was to deep to deploy our divers.

[@garylima515]

Rip to all the crew members that passed away that day I was a crew member on the Uss John S McCain (DDG-56) and shortly after the plane crash as well as the coast Guard we were part of the rescue team that recovered some of the crew members that we could Find my condolences to all that was affected

[@chuckaddison5134]

I was stationed on Guam in the early-mid 80s, living on Nimitz hill. We would regularly watch the BUFFs go by on their way up to Anderson.

[@raymondyee2008]

Damn how did we not know about this other than the crash at Fairchild AFB?

[@HAROLDJOHNSON-e6e]

as a maintenance crew chief on B-52s for 2 years. I flew once a month to get my time in. This was at Walker AFB which is now closed. We never had any emergencies during the flights I was on. My prayers go out to the families of the crewmembers who perished on that flight.

[@suzyq4982]

Tragic - rest in peace guys - taken too soon 😢

[@scuddrunner1]

I looked up the number of airplane accidents on Guam, I was amazed there's a lot of them. I lived there as a kid and a plane load of military dependents crashed where we were there.

[@george-op9dw]

Manual trimming by hand, beyond a certain speed, is impossible because of the extreme aerodynamic forces. At least this is what happened in the second Boeing 737 Max that had crashed in Africa. After ΜCAS activation causing a continuous nose down input, the crew delayed but finally switch power off (after 20 seconds) the trimming motors and tried to turn trimming wheel by hand. But because engine power throttles had been left to full power without the plane climbing, the plane had gained high speed and hand trimming was impossible due to aerodynamic forces.

[@joevignolor4u949]

Your description of the Max crash in Africa is accurate. In the case of the B-52 it sounds like something went wrong in the electric trim system or the jackscrew mechanism in the tail. The airplane just started trimming itself down for some reason. The crew may have recognized it and turned off the electric trim and then tried to hand crank it back manually. That might not have worked due to excessive aerodynamic forces on the horizontal stabilizer but it's also possible that the jackscrew mechanism was jammed for some reason and it wouldn't move.

[@carlosidelone8064]

As soon a I heard the music at the opening of the video, I knew it was one of yours, which are my favourites. Thank you for this sad, but respectful video story.

[@radducku]

great presentation for such a sad event...one can only wonder how come there were no black boxes recovered or no comm in those 30 something last seconds???...pity and RIP the 6 crew.

[@bkdexter79]

Andersen AFB, Guam had just lost a B-2 bomber not long before this crash. I was stationed there from 94-98 and love the Island of Guam. I had never heard of this BUFF crash before and am sad now that I have. God bless those souls and their families!

[@85November]

Don't forget the B-1 pilot that forgot to put the landing gear down during a nighttime landing.

[@josemoreno3334]

Rest In Peace My Brother Airman. All Hero's.

[@johnhackert2092]

In was an instructor in the 4017th Combat Crew Training Squadron at Castle AFB in the mid 1960's. Our mission was training B-52 and KC-135 pilots and crew. Runaway trim was a potentially serious problem in the B-52 and it was included as part of our simulator training.

[@TheRealNatNat]

When you feel you're about to crash and then in addition, witness 3 crew members pressing the EJECT button... Imagine if they had been successful... "bye guys, no hard feelings" 😅

[@joevignolor4u949]

There isn't an eject button. There are two handles, one on each side of the seat. You have to grab them and squeeze the handles with your hands to activate a safety release. Then you pull the handles up, which starts the ejection sequence.

[@nordan00]

@@joevignolor4u949The correct bold face upward ejection procedure, which you are tested on frequently and are not allowed to even misspell a single word is: ARMING LEVERS - ROTATE TRIGGER - SQUEEZE Pins that prohibit ejection are inserted in the ejection seat armrest when the seat is unoccupied on the ground or inflight whenever the crew member leaves the seat. This is to avoid the occupant inadvertently activating the ejection sequence when leaving the seat (for instance, when needing to take a piss). Once back in the seat, the crew member removes the pins, thus allowing the ejection seat to be armed if needed. When ejection is required, you must rotate upward both ejection seat levers. (It ain’t working with only one lever rotated.) This blows the ejection hatch above the crew member’s seat. Then, to eject yourself, you must squeeze either one trigger, or both triggers, which ejects the seat-and you, hopefully, from the aircraft. Now, I’m just going by memory, since I got out of BUFFs 32 years ago. As for the Radar’s and Nav’s downward ejection boldface, that I wasn’t required to memorize, as I was an EWO. Also, to eject upward required zero altitude but at least 90 KIAS of speed, meaning you could theoretically eject safely while still on the runway prior to takeoff as long as the aircraft is traveling above 90 knots indicated air speed. The downstairs guys needed at least 250 above ground level to theoretically survive ejection. The section of the video at 11:17 is improperly worded and therefore confusing. If I remember correctly, the info cited there is for a controlled ejection. When death is imminent, you try to get out ASAP!

[@leondraw1766]

This is by far my favorite channel. I learn something every time.

[@pou618]

If THAT crew couldn't get out of it, no one could have. RIP. gentlemen

[@Slaktrax]

This is a good and sobering Flight Safety Channel. All pilots should use this as a sanity check.

[@ThiviruthepilotAviation]

Rip for those pilots 😢 😪 💔 who are lost their lives.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Thanks for showing landing gear detail. I had no idea it worked the way it did.

[@grmpEqweer]

Airshows seem to k1ll a lot of people and airplanes. I'd be just as happy to look at them parked.😢

[@perniciouspete4986]

Yeah. Close up is even more thrilling.

[@jorgecallico9177]

@@perniciouspete4986 Good points both of you. My gosh this is a sad story. It's bad enough when people die during combat.

[@UkeBrian]

I remember this day... I was marching in the parade, such a sad day for the USAF

[@vitsirosh3722]

Fun fact B-52 is numbered that way because 5+2=7. And we know how much Boeing loves the number 7 given their fleet going back to the 707

[@vitsirosh3722]

@Karki* Except this isn't numerology it's the military. B= Bomber

[@eugeneoreilly9356]

52 was the year it first flew.The odd number for Boeing was 717.

[@grandmasterpu]

@@eugeneoreilly9356 that’s not how MDS work. It’s the B-52 because it’s the 52nd design for a bomber to be adopted.

[@grandmasterpu]

The Boeing number is a Model 464. The military designation is B-52.

[@brilton1]

Grammar, spelling, punctuation and consistent verb tenses: near perfect Eric. Bravo. And I like the new font too.

[@crisprtalk6963]

Parameters or not I would want to eject too. Most unfortunate those parameters were in place at all.

[@grmpEqweer]

Might as well. Ejection gives you potential survival.

[@SockyNoob]

Extremely heartbreaking. RIP to the souls who flew this magnificent old plane.

[@danielcurtis4179]

My dad was a b52 mechanic on Guam in the 60s. Then was in strategic Air command operation Chrome dome. How old was that plane?

[@leonswan6733]

The last batch of B-52s left the factory in 1962, which all the younger ones were converted to H and soon I s then J s.

[@theflyingcrewchief]

1960

[@leonswan6733]

@@theflyingcrewchief I knew i read it correctly, 1962 !!! . I have the " Haynes Owner`s workshop " book which tells everything about the B-52. It says " 26 October 1962, Last B-52 ever made, a H model, tail number 61-040 is delivered by the Wichita plant to the 4136th Strategic Wing at Minot AFB, North Dakota ". 1962 !!!

[@heartfeltteaching]

They look a lot older then their ages and it's good that Shepherd shepherded them to their final resting place, liberated forever

[@patolt1628]

15:24: Very sad. Whatever the report said, it's not pilot's fault, the aircraft was not recoverable and that's it. I just disagree with what is said at the end of the video: "late ejection attempts by several of the crew is further evidence of a "late recognition of the dangerous situation" ..." Come on! You fly an aircraft which suddenly and brutally pitches down and you need 20 seconds to realize this might be a dangerous situation? Of course not: the ejection attempts are just evidence of the understanding that nothing else could be done to recover the aircraft, which is different. They obviously understood that the situation was dangerous (it's an understatement), they tried to do something and they eventually realized that they were doomed and all this in a few seconds ... Bad day! RIP

[@philmonat9352]

Wow ! What a tragic loss of lives.🙏🙏🙏 (USAF E-4 NAV/RADAR TECH 74-78) and so few BUFF's were lost outside of combat.✈✈✈

[@59seank]

What causes a "runaway" stabilizer trim? It sounds like a hardware problem.

[@j.p.8276]

R.I.P. my fellow countrymen.

[@AZ6780810809]

Chilling to watch when the crew didn't recgonize the seriousness of a malfunction, the trim,( did they knew it? Who knows)within seconds, its unrecoverable R.I.P.🙏

[@leonswan6733]

They were already low altitude then pushed forward on the yoke to a dive then your trim malfunctions and hydraulically motored at 3000 psi or electric motor at 220VAC runaway to full nose down trim. They had no chance. You got to hit the trim cut out switch then It takes a lot of turns on those manual trim wheels to manually trim up. I use to be USAF maintainer on Boeing KC-135Rs at Fairchild AFB WA. I use to play in the cockpits with hydraulic and electric power switched on.

[@AZ6780810809]

@@leonswan6733 thnx for clearing that up, you have a lot experience, did you made a simulator flight on this particular flight to see if you could recognize the problem?? Thnx, Robert

[@leonswan6733]

@@AZ6780810809 No simulators, just the real thing I played with. It's sad to say but... these things happen sometimes. Wile I was stationed at Fairchild AFB WA in 1998, we had a Air National Guard KC-135E from the 141st crash on landing or takeoff wile temporary Duty in Germany. Was assumed a stab trim runaway. That trim has a up or down electrical switch on the yoke that you press with your thumb. Wire Chaffee or whatever could case a erroneous not commanded activation of the stab trim. I was on one of our squadron KC-135R leaving Moron Air Base Spain after Operation Allied Force like July 1999. After we took off, the thing just nosed over!!! My heart stopped!!! I thought we were going to die because the stab trim failed. Then all of a sudden the pilot powered up and pulled the nose up. All of us in the back just looked at each other... this stuff happens.

[@AZ6780810809]

@@leonswan6733 shit happens, worst feelung ever, that you think omg we are going down, gladly you didn't, but overall speaking I like this series of crashes and to find out where it did go wrong, at the end learn from it, implent it in trainings and move on, some crashes are in my mindset like 1977 Tenerife 2 747's involved, KLM took off with no take off clearance and the Pan Am was still on the runway, on an airport where they normally didn't land, but yhey were there because of bombing on Gran Canaria Airport shop. Chain of events is it most of the times, sadly Appreciate it very much, that you took time to explain this accident with your expertise and look on this sad case❤ Greetings Robert Alkmaar The Netherlands

[@tymobyrne4451]

As a kid i lived on Andersen between 1968 and 1970, B-52's crashing was a daily concern for everyone, seeing them go down was so sad. Coming home StateSide to be spit on because my dad was a "baby killer" was harder to take. I will never forget.

[@ronaryel6445]

Thank you for a well-done video. Having an aircraft like that with no Flight Data Recorder or Cockpit Voice Recorder is inexcusable. I know that these were not used in military aircraft (dunno if that is still policy today). Is most trim adjustment now electric in newer aircraft?

[@markheinle6319]

whys it inexcusable? you just said you know its policy they dont do it. theres a reason for that. just because you dont personally understand it because you dont do this, doesnt mean its terrible and inexcusable. get off the internet ron.

[@myke5696]

@@markheinle6319 This seems an important safety issue to consider. Could they implement data and voice recorders for most missions, and if there is a specific mission where for security reasons they don't want data recorded, turn them off for those missions?

[@myusername630]

Just to let you know, I was at the base who received the first H mod and that was in 1961, did you ever hear of 8 Track? That was the end of the world when you could stick magnetic tape in the dashboard of your convertible and hear music come out of it. Just kidding but I don't know how old your are but I would assume your history goes back as far as the cell phone. What you are talking about had to wait for 3 generations to even know what those would be.

[@myusername630]

Also most people do not know that when these types of equipment are invented and they take years to produce the first thing they go through so many versions before they can even complete the final design. Consider the Space shuttle. Space was announced in the early 60's and the Space Shuttle was launched many years later with over two million parts that were designed before there even was Apple and yet they flew all those years with the first basic window machine. Anyway, just saying

[@murrygandy6546]

Terrible tragedy. I was an Instructor Radar Nav on H models during the 70s . Thankfully we never experienced the kind of problem this Buff crew encountered. God rest their souls.

[@Cat_herders]

Maybe I shouldn’t ask… but what specifically happens with a late ejection? I imagine they still are able to eject… there just isn’t enough distance to deploy or adequately deploy a parachute. Is that right? This is meant with all due respect.

[@lebojay]

Yes, enough time for the ‘chute to fully deploy and do its thing, and also the right parameters so that the crew, seats, ejected plane parts, and the plane itself all go their separate ways as planned.

[@leonswan6733]

I am trying to be respectful to the fallen hero`s. It sounds like the pilot, co-pilot and the 3rd guy ( not too sure of his position if rear upper deck or lower downward ejecting deck ) the hatches over and or under them my have blown off and jettison. Strapped to the seats the " gun " ( behind the back rest mortar tube like with telescopic and push out propellant charge ) may have pushed them out the aircraft but there parachute did not fully pull out and open. They may have hit the water strapped to there seats at some MPH. Not survivable.

[@Cat_herders]

Ty both for your reply.

[@DYNABIKE1]

I was in GUAM in 1968 and We had a B-52 go right off the runway at Anderson and straight into the Ocean. It was a nightly Vietnam run. Lost power in one wing and rolled over and in.